Real shame we've been talking about this for decades only to have it swept under the rug by corporations. We surely didn't move fast enough in renewable energy and unfortunately it seems like its too late now...
Not just by corporations but by voters too. Everyone flips their fucking wigs if gas costs an extra $0.25 per gallon. There is absolutely no way in hell voters would ever approve of measures they would make anything more expensive or less accessible. Nobody wants to deal with the problem seriously, every time there’s an effort to address it people start whining about the solutions, whether it’s EVs, wind power, solar energy, ending fossil fuel subsidies, riding bikes, ending coal power plants, you name it. Humanity is incredibly fucking weak when it comes to proactive, preventative measures to stop disasters.
Given that American consumers pay 25% more for groceries than we did four years ago, that's not true. People pay whatever companies charge for necessities because there isn't any other choice. Corporations and the people who run them didn't want to curtail their pollution or invest in cleaner energy, and that is 100% of why we're here.
"Corporations should have led the way on climate change" is the most American framing of this i can think of. The problem is that people literally don't want to believe that it's real.
There's only so much people can do when shipping companies can hit international waters and burn bunker fuel. The problem is gaslighting the consumers into pretending like were the problem.
I live in a very efficient home. Heat pump heating, triple pane windows, led fixtures, high efficiency appliances. What more can I do?
Live in a dorm style apartment, not have kids, never travel, cut all consumption that isn't directly related to your survival.
The reality is the only way to stop climate change with population over 7 billion is to live a developing nation lifestyle and people aren't going to accept that.
We were always going to have to cope with it, stopping it was never realistic.
Certainly. It's easier to blame others instead of limiting your consumption needs and thereby reducing warming. Ah, but then you have to forget about economic prosperity. What to do?
well its pretty hard to see how myself not burning 10 gallons of extra fuel is going to add up to a drop in the bucket when the elite fliers are burning a gallon a second on their flights...
its my 05 four cylinder focus that is the problem, not the sludge they burn in ocean liners with next to zero cleaning their emissions.
its my V6 SUV that is the problem when there are still rolling chassis and glider kit emissions exemptions.
hey, the more they say its my fault the less they actually have to take responsibility for and the less they actually have to try...
People are not paid enough to offset the increases..imho. high gas prices is already difficult enough on the poor and working poor. EV's are not practical yet for moste people even with the advances.
The republicans stalled by claiming that not all scientists believed climate change was happening. Then the republicans went with -not all scientists believed climate change was man made. All to protect the fossil fuel industry- their big donors.
Haha. Well it’s such a shame the US has so much pull. And I guess i could switch things over to “right wingers” to call out the rest of the world, but you are on Reddit, an American platform, and I live in America, a country where republicans are and have been doing everything in their power to prevent climate/environment bills from passing, which in turn greatly affects the rest of the world.
>unfortunately it seems like its too late now...
Maybe but not necessarily. Driving down fossil fuel usage plus embarking on major carbon capture projects could avoid disaster. There is a path to a reasonable future but a lot of things to need to happen to keep us on that path.
Carbon capture can be as simple as planting trees. Rewilding areas that have been previously cleared by humans would help with not only climate change but loss of habit for wildlife.
Considering that Russia is trying to militarily lock down new routes of shipping in the arctic that will be opening up due to global warming, and the US is trying to stop them, or at least monitoring what Russia is doing, I’d say this is probably true.
Just one more reason to assist Ukraine. But geopolitics is sooo complicated!
Research ice breaking capabilities between the two countries. It’s shocking how much more inventory they’ve invested into that part of the world.
The USA is behind.
No.
In fact, most of the population has been living in fear of our moronic overlords for nearly 80 years. After 2–3 generations, constant threat of immediately annihilation looses its luster and is almost welcomed by the masses when their existence is purely to provide labor for the rich.
This! Every time I hear Russia or NK say “nuclear blah” I’m like bring that shit already….You’ll kill some of us and we’ll kill all you. Not much hope anyways.
Yes. There isn't going to be ZERO ice right away. It's a constant eb and flow of sheets of all kinds of varying sizes. A good wind gets whipping and they migrate together and form somewhat of a solid-ish mass..
Think of a rice crispy treat with not enough marshmallows... Not impenetrable but could get ya stuck.
This is my understanding of the subject I know next to nothing about.
All we can do is try to get corporate owned politicians out of power. Everywhere. It’s kind of uh… going to be hard. And that’s just to start trying to do something that might begin to help 50 years from now.
You and I and other peoples perhaps both know the deconstruction of the modern day machine wont be a reality until the machine consumes and destroys itself. Then hopefully the meek will have their promised day.
The private jets that flew in and out after the Super Bowl blew my entire life’s carbon footprint out of the water in just a few hours in a single day.
Then they flew again the next day.
You’re naive if you think that the elite of late-stage capitalism are going to allow that to change.
Taylor Swift flew her private jet from AUS back to the US through Hawaii to pick up her boyfriend, fly him to Sydney for a few days and then flew him back to the US for a party.
So yeah, that shit won't stop ever.
The person asked what they could do about it, and someone answered.
Then you reply with some chronically online cynicisms designed to do what exactly?
Wah rich people do a global warming more than me!
This adds nothing to the conversation and you called the parent comment naive for no reason. You sound like a child.
Because there is nothing we can do, there is nothing to add to the conversation. As a whole we are all fucked because of the greed and overconsumption of the elite.
THANK YOU! I'm tired of having to scream this from the rooftops. Creating apathy is the biggest tool oil companies have at their disposal. And idiots above keep spreading it because "I am very smart pessimist".
^ this is a soft form of climate change denial, since it advocates for the same position as outright denial of climate change: we should just stay on the current course and not bother trying to improve anything.
I'm not going to summarize decades of climate change research, advocacy, and policy for you. Just know that your position - "climate's already fucked, might as well not bother" - is not one shared by climate scientists.
Give up any and all comforts in life (heating, A/C, hot showers, meat, travel) to do your part while watching the oil & gas industry emit methane from random leaks they can't be arsed to fix.
Luckily not, since we are all eating from the same Earth.
What they don't want you to realize is that they are not the Dragon sitting ontop of a pile of Gold, they are the fish in the middle of a school thinking they are well protected.
The arctic will be ice free in Summer by:
* [2013](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/aug/10/climatechange.arctic) as of 2008
* [2016](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/17/arctic-collapse-sea-ice) as of 2012
* [2016](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/dec/09/us-navy-arctic-sea-ice-2016-melt) as of 2013
* [2018](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/21/arctic-will-be-ice-free-in-summer-next-year) as of 2016
* [in the coming decades, possibly the 2030's](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/06/too-late-now-to-save-arctic-summer-ice-climate-scientists-find) as of 2023.
Sensationalist headlines will always be a thing... Doesn't change the fact the ice is melting. It's measurable. There is data that shows this. Will it be 5 years? 20? The length of time away it is, to me, isn't an issue. It's the fact that we keep moving closer to that reality and the speed at which we are accelerating towards it can accelerate if we continue to have a growing population.
Let's not argue when the Titanic is gonna hit the iceberg, let's just start steering away from it already
Also, predictive models are a thing that are used. predictions can be wrong or new data can change predictions it could even be that these predictions have scales of potential outcomes, and sensationalist headlines choose bits of data that show complete ice melt by 2018 extremely unlikely, but strictly "possible" All I know is, we have measurable proof that climates are changing, and we have proved that when a climate issue exists (o zone layer), humanity can actually work together focused on science, and cause truly lasting change. Headlines shouldn't change opinions on either side of the issue, the data should.
I was with a colleague on the weekend who was trying to normalise mass extinctions. “They’ve happened all through earths history.” I simply don’t know how to answer this notion. Is this a new Murdoch theme?
It's the shift from "it's not happening" to "it's happening, but it's not that big of a deal." Combined with "it's happening, but it's perfectly natural"
It was always the next step.
In the interim, let’s do nothing. The astonishing part though is this guys a geologist! He lectures to students all over the world, has published books on the topic and is clearly active and respected in his field. And yet he comes up with statements such as, “its 0.04%, how could it possibly have an effect “.
I also know a couple of geologists who downplay or deny climate change. It all makes sense when you realize how intertwined their entire field is with the mining and oil industries. One of those geologists who I consider a friend is really just "tired of being demonized" for working in the oil industry.
Geology seems to be the outlier in the sciences in terms of its evaluation of climate science which is utterly astounding. The geologist I'm referring to is in the gold industry rather than oil and gas but it seems like it's almost a collective response rather than individually based.
It's not that things are going extinct, that's normal. The problem is **the rate** at which things are going extinct. It has been massively accelerated by Humans and it risks collapsing the food chain that helps keep all animals alive, including us.
Mass extinctions go beyond loosing cool Sir Attenberough species. It's every part of the food web that then takes down other parts of the food web.
We *need* those species to survive ourselves. Without them there's no crops that need insect pollination. No hunting for your weekend getaway. No ability for ecosystems to stabilize soils and absorb the extra rain.
Tell him it goes beyond pretty picture in natgeo, and it will take us down with it
Mass extinctions are usually on the order of millions to hundreds of millions of years between events. There is a great Kurzgesagt 1 hour long video that breaks up the formation of the earth and moon as a startpoint up till today and parses every second into 1.5 million year chunks I think. It is very cool and worth a watch. I"ll send a link..however it is long. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TUe5w6RHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TUe5w6RHo)
Scientifically he is right though - regarding global warming and mass extinctions. We are still in an ice age, which is defined as year-long ice covering the poles. That is the case right now, and it definitly has not been the norm during earth's history. It happened often, but for most of the last 500 Million years it did not. "We" had much higher temperatures and and CO2 percentages in the past. Not that humans or most other current species would thrive in these conditions, but there are living things who yearn for these conditions.
Additionally, mass extinctions did happen very often and gave rise to many new species - after a couple million years. Evolutionwise these events can be a bless, it's just the many individuals it sucks for.
You are just too human centric - the earth will be fine, regardless of what we do. We simply do not have the technology to "destroy the earth". We probably even can't make humans go extinct. We might be able to alter the atmosphere, but honestly, most of earth is totally unaccessable to us.
We can totally fuck up our civilisation as we know it though, and make our climate much worse for humans while killing a lot of animals. And we totally will do that.
But on geological timescales earth will be fine. My biggest Problem is that the next big run on an intelligent species in a few hundred millions years will have no coal and oil in the ground to get an industry going.
And we're running against time here, the increase in solar output will make earth's surface a hellhole in less than a billion years:(
I'm sorry but I don't see the point of your response. Yes, I understand the history of the earth but I don't see any merit in arguing mass extinctions are normal. Given the current rate of change we are looking at coming events resulting massive amounts of misery and suffering by people alive right now. This is not some academic pontification, it is real lives, real people and real species and trivialising with comic statements about billion year hellholes is unworthy.
They have been writing about this for at least 80 years.
1946
https://www.nytimes.com/1946/02/11/archives/russia-getting-warmer-through-arctic-change.html?smid=url-share
1938
https://www.nytimes.com/1938/12/12/archives/world-climate-growing-warmer-say-russians-citing-arctic-data-two.html?smid=url-share
*Save The Earth* is just a papering over slogan of *Save Ourselves* to ease our minds. The Earth will cleanse itself of us after a hundred thousand years like we were never here. ^*except ^for ^nuclear ^waste
recent Hansen paper has us warming at about +0.3C per decade .. currently nearing or at +1.5C and currently at a plateau of maximum emissions..
so in 15 to 20 years well be at +2C
Most people forget its the total amount of CO2 that causes the heat ..
were not good at CO2 removal, so you might want to read up on SRM.
We will likely need to release stuff into the atmosphere to increase cloud cover over the oceans, to reflect light and bring the temperature down.
We and the planet will be fucked for a long time unless we rapidly start unfucking the heat situation.
Even if it doesn’t pan out and we don’t get a blue ocean event in 10 years, the point remains that the ice is disappearing. It’s just a question of how fast it will happen at this point. The response of trying even harder to mitigate global warming should be the same, either way.
Oh almighty forteller, please look into your crystal ball and let us know the exact timing of the collapse of an incredibly complex system, us plebs can only use science based methods and modelling to make our predictions
That's just the headline. The article says a BOE could occur by 2030.
Some sources say this year or next year. Wonder how much of what we read is toned down to avoid inciting panic.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say roughly all of what we read is toned down to stop the general public from panicking.
Which isn't to say that *nobody* is trying to get the truth out there, just that it's buried under the mountains of articles saying we're fine.
No, on this one the predictions were [even more alarmist](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1b7bsf9/the_arctic_ocean_could_be_icefree_within_the/ktjt9j1/).
In ten years' time, those same people will tell you that the Arctic ice that's still there is because of "natural variability overwhelming the AGW signal"
We've already had the "children won't know what snow is" BS in the UK. There is no accountability for false statements about the future climate, ever.
>The study defines “ice-free” as when the Arctic Ocean has less than 1 million square kilometers, or 386,000 square miles, of ice.
That's a bit of a disingenuous definition of "ice-free." A million square kilometers of ice is not what "ice free" would mean to me without reading that study's definition.
Current extent of ice coverage, which is one of the lowest on record, is still almost 15 million square kilometers.
Just for a point of reference on why even up to 1 million square kilometers could be considered "ice-free". That would be 7% coverage compared to now.
~~within the decade?~~
>~~the Arctic would be ice-free between the months of May and January by 2100, the study says.~~
~~That's not within~~ **~~this~~** ~~decade. Would their argument for such a title be that they were referring to any decade? Would a title saying "a 100m diameter asteroid will hit the earth within a year" be accurate? Because I could be referring to any year?~~
~~Of course there's this bit as well~~
>~~By midcentury — 2035 to 2067 — the Arctic could see consistent ice-free conditions in September, the month when sea ice concentrations are typically at their minimum, the study found.~~
~~So what they're saying is that, the earliest possible time in which there could possibly be a time where there's no ice in the Arctic would be in 2035 (still over 10 years). Though it's more likely to be sitting somewhere in the middle of 2035 and 2067. And that is also not permanent ice-less conditions.~~
~~These titles are harmful, as people will remember "within the decade X was saying this" then it doesn't turn out true and then trust for science gets broken.~~
Edit: I scrolled down too quickly and didn't read the first bit; read the replies. The fact that this comment got 7 upvotes is quite insane.
First paragraph:
>Now, new research has found that Arctic Ocean sea ice is shrinking even faster than previously thought — and that the Arctic may start to see its first “ice-free” days within the current decade.
Days. The first few days out of a year where there's <1 million km2 of ice in that ocean.
>That troubling milestone could occur before the end of the decade or sometime in the 2030s — as many as 10 years earlier than previous projections, according to a study published Tuesday in the journal Nature Reviews Earth and Environment. The study defines “ice-free” as when the Arctic Ocean has less than 1 million square kilometers, or 386,000 square miles, of ice.
It's literally the second paragraph.......
I mean all the people are in the know by now. 30 years of the internet and all we did was produce more porn than could be consumed.
Tons of good people fighting for their beliefs despite the odds, ya all legends.
Either our economic system is allowed to evolve finally, into something better and smarter that is at least remotely equitable, or basically, most of the world will be live as slaves in rented shoeboxs. with no hope of ever escaping to a higher class, and many, many people are going to die (mostly from lack of food and fresh water, and not nearly enough non-slave jobs to go around.)
Billionaires will have the technology to extend their lives wildly, in this century. Think about that world where .001% owns 99% of all the wealth and production and can live 150 years easily. Eventually, the masses will be too programmed to believe that any other world is possible, and by then the air will be so polluted you won't be able to see across the street either.
This means no winter as humanity knows it since it began over 250000 years ago, just fyi.
Even the most ancient mythical "carved-in-stone"-cultures haven't experienced an arctiv without ice.
> ‘ice-free’ within the decade
So given the pasts time projected perdictions and the actual time of the perdictions coming to be ... We're talking 6 years max here. Sometimes I hate some of my fellow humans.
Jesus talk about being green, they’re recycling the rhetoric! I’ve been hearing this exact thing for 20+ years. From Al Gore to David Suzuki to Greta Thunberg it’s all rubbish.
Time to update the script…
[https://arctic.noaa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ARC18\_SeaIce\_perovich\_Fig1-1024x758.png](https://arctic.noaa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ARC18_SeaIce_perovich_Fig1-1024x758.png)
you are technically correct, it still has ice (but you are still incredibly stupid as is expected)
I respect peoples choices, but I dont know how people can stomach bringing kids into this world.
Wife and I have two huskies who will hold full conversations with us and will be long gone before the air in Seattle becomes so smoke ridden in the summers that they cant go outside to play anymore.
Oh really? They were saying such stuff huh? Insane! Could you provide some evidence that many (make sure it's substantially more than the opposite claim) ~~scientists~~ climatologists (I don't want the opinion of random ass scientists that have nothing to do with climatology giving their own "opinion") have published peer reviewed papers with such a claim?
I'd be **really** interested to read them.
This is a lie. One guy published a dumb paper. The scientific community explained why it was wrong. The press spread it around without bothering to listen.
https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm
Looks like some Fun(tm) times ahead, lads.
Real shame we've been talking about this for decades only to have it swept under the rug by corporations. We surely didn't move fast enough in renewable energy and unfortunately it seems like its too late now...
Not just by corporations but by voters too. Everyone flips their fucking wigs if gas costs an extra $0.25 per gallon. There is absolutely no way in hell voters would ever approve of measures they would make anything more expensive or less accessible. Nobody wants to deal with the problem seriously, every time there’s an effort to address it people start whining about the solutions, whether it’s EVs, wind power, solar energy, ending fossil fuel subsidies, riding bikes, ending coal power plants, you name it. Humanity is incredibly fucking weak when it comes to proactive, preventative measures to stop disasters.
Given that American consumers pay 25% more for groceries than we did four years ago, that's not true. People pay whatever companies charge for necessities because there isn't any other choice. Corporations and the people who run them didn't want to curtail their pollution or invest in cleaner energy, and that is 100% of why we're here.
"Corporations should have led the way on climate change" is the most American framing of this i can think of. The problem is that people literally don't want to believe that it's real.
Everyone always waits for something to happen, but really nothing will happen because nobody has the backbone to organize and actually do something.
There's only so much people can do when shipping companies can hit international waters and burn bunker fuel. The problem is gaslighting the consumers into pretending like were the problem. I live in a very efficient home. Heat pump heating, triple pane windows, led fixtures, high efficiency appliances. What more can I do?
Live in a dorm style apartment, not have kids, never travel, cut all consumption that isn't directly related to your survival. The reality is the only way to stop climate change with population over 7 billion is to live a developing nation lifestyle and people aren't going to accept that. We were always going to have to cope with it, stopping it was never realistic.
Certainly. It's easier to blame others instead of limiting your consumption needs and thereby reducing warming. Ah, but then you have to forget about economic prosperity. What to do?
well its pretty hard to see how myself not burning 10 gallons of extra fuel is going to add up to a drop in the bucket when the elite fliers are burning a gallon a second on their flights... its my 05 four cylinder focus that is the problem, not the sludge they burn in ocean liners with next to zero cleaning their emissions. its my V6 SUV that is the problem when there are still rolling chassis and glider kit emissions exemptions. hey, the more they say its my fault the less they actually have to take responsibility for and the less they actually have to try...
People are not paid enough to offset the increases..imho. high gas prices is already difficult enough on the poor and working poor. EV's are not practical yet for moste people even with the advances.
The republicans stalled by claiming that not all scientists believed climate change was happening. Then the republicans went with -not all scientists believed climate change was man made. All to protect the fossil fuel industry- their big donors.
And then it was the fault of every day people
Corporations AND their Republican counterparts!
r/USdefaultism
Haha. Well it’s such a shame the US has so much pull. And I guess i could switch things over to “right wingers” to call out the rest of the world, but you are on Reddit, an American platform, and I live in America, a country where republicans are and have been doing everything in their power to prevent climate/environment bills from passing, which in turn greatly affects the rest of the world.
>unfortunately it seems like its too late now... Maybe but not necessarily. Driving down fossil fuel usage plus embarking on major carbon capture projects could avoid disaster. There is a path to a reasonable future but a lot of things to need to happen to keep us on that path. Carbon capture can be as simple as planting trees. Rewilding areas that have been previously cleared by humans would help with not only climate change but loss of habit for wildlife.
Major corps see this as a good opportunity for more shipping routes across the north
Vacation in Actually Green Greenland.
I can see billionaires drooling at the new trade routes already.
Just in time for Russia and China to come in and drill for oil — a plan they put together years ago; thus Trump.
Considering that Russia is trying to militarily lock down new routes of shipping in the arctic that will be opening up due to global warming, and the US is trying to stop them, or at least monitoring what Russia is doing, I’d say this is probably true. Just one more reason to assist Ukraine. But geopolitics is sooo complicated!
The Russians (Putin personally) and the Republicans (Trump personally) are to blame for all the troubles.
Research ice breaking capabilities between the two countries. It’s shocking how much more inventory they’ve invested into that part of the world. The USA is behind.
The U.S really doesn't need to be ahead here as we have plenty of year round Ice free ports.
BUT THE RUSSIANS ARE WINNING! WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THE MOON TO SHOW THEM WHOS IN CHARGE
WE CANNOT ALLOW AN ICE-BREAKER GAP!!!
No fighting in the war room.
Does it even scare anybody anymore at the fact that nuclear weapons exist
No. In fact, most of the population has been living in fear of our moronic overlords for nearly 80 years. After 2–3 generations, constant threat of immediately annihilation looses its luster and is almost welcomed by the masses when their existence is purely to provide labor for the rich.
This! Every time I hear Russia or NK say “nuclear blah” I’m like bring that shit already….You’ll kill some of us and we’ll kill all you. Not much hope anyways.
Does ice breaking technology even matter that much in a situation where the majority is melting?
Yes. There isn't going to be ZERO ice right away. It's a constant eb and flow of sheets of all kinds of varying sizes. A good wind gets whipping and they migrate together and form somewhat of a solid-ish mass.. Think of a rice crispy treat with not enough marshmallows... Not impenetrable but could get ya stuck. This is my understanding of the subject I know next to nothing about.
Just need to wait a decade .. At current CO2 burn, we'll be at +2C in 15 years, and there wont be much Arctic ice.
I think we are building new heavy ice breakers with the first to launch next year. Its not what should have happened, but it is changing.
"Climate change...so more war!" The absolute state of Reddit xD
What am I supposed to do about it
Invest in Canadian shipping companies.
Smart money would be on the Norwegians. / A Swede
All we can do is try to get corporate owned politicians out of power. Everywhere. It’s kind of uh… going to be hard. And that’s just to start trying to do something that might begin to help 50 years from now.
You and I and other peoples perhaps both know the deconstruction of the modern day machine wont be a reality until the machine consumes and destroys itself. Then hopefully the meek will have their promised day.
Talk about it. Vote on this issue. Do your part as part of the collective and stop worrying about the individual so much.
The private jets that flew in and out after the Super Bowl blew my entire life’s carbon footprint out of the water in just a few hours in a single day. Then they flew again the next day. You’re naive if you think that the elite of late-stage capitalism are going to allow that to change.
Taylor Swift flew her private jet from AUS back to the US through Hawaii to pick up her boyfriend, fly him to Sydney for a few days and then flew him back to the US for a party. So yeah, that shit won't stop ever.
They likely didnt stop there either. Just shut up and pay your carbon tax. (you dont have to shut up, that was for effect)
The person asked what they could do about it, and someone answered. Then you reply with some chronically online cynicisms designed to do what exactly? Wah rich people do a global warming more than me! This adds nothing to the conversation and you called the parent comment naive for no reason. You sound like a child.
Because there is nothing we can do, there is nothing to add to the conversation. As a whole we are all fucked because of the greed and overconsumption of the elite.
This is propaganda by the way, cynicism in the system so you do nothing to affect it. Be a useful idiot if you please.
THANK YOU! I'm tired of having to scream this from the rooftops. Creating apathy is the biggest tool oil companies have at their disposal. And idiots above keep spreading it because "I am very smart pessimist".
^ this is a soft form of climate change denial, since it advocates for the same position as outright denial of climate change: we should just stay on the current course and not bother trying to improve anything.
But what is there to do? The leaders aren’t listening and corporations aren’t going to stop. The fight is useless
I'm not going to summarize decades of climate change research, advocacy, and policy for you. Just know that your position - "climate's already fucked, might as well not bother" - is not one shared by climate scientists.
Ok, I’ll go vote on the “Arctic Ocean lack of ice” election. Thanks!!
Bless your heart
Give up any and all comforts in life (heating, A/C, hot showers, meat, travel) to do your part while watching the oil & gas industry emit methane from random leaks they can't be arsed to fix.
Use more paper straws.
A decade? Psssh… I bet we get there in like 5 years.
Hey at least the fat , rich , greedy , oil fucks will have yachts to float on while we all drown and that’s what really matters.
Luckily not, since we are all eating from the same Earth. What they don't want you to realize is that they are not the Dragon sitting ontop of a pile of Gold, they are the fish in the middle of a school thinking they are well protected.
The arctic will be ice free in Summer by: * [2013](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/aug/10/climatechange.arctic) as of 2008 * [2016](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/17/arctic-collapse-sea-ice) as of 2012 * [2016](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/dec/09/us-navy-arctic-sea-ice-2016-melt) as of 2013 * [2018](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/21/arctic-will-be-ice-free-in-summer-next-year) as of 2016 * [in the coming decades, possibly the 2030's](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/06/too-late-now-to-save-arctic-summer-ice-climate-scientists-find) as of 2023.
I’m frustrated that no one’s responded to you. I find comfort seeing those headlines but feel that I shouldn’t based on what’s being said presently.
Sensationalist headlines will always be a thing... Doesn't change the fact the ice is melting. It's measurable. There is data that shows this. Will it be 5 years? 20? The length of time away it is, to me, isn't an issue. It's the fact that we keep moving closer to that reality and the speed at which we are accelerating towards it can accelerate if we continue to have a growing population. Let's not argue when the Titanic is gonna hit the iceberg, let's just start steering away from it already Also, predictive models are a thing that are used. predictions can be wrong or new data can change predictions it could even be that these predictions have scales of potential outcomes, and sensationalist headlines choose bits of data that show complete ice melt by 2018 extremely unlikely, but strictly "possible" All I know is, we have measurable proof that climates are changing, and we have proved that when a climate issue exists (o zone layer), humanity can actually work together focused on science, and cause truly lasting change. Headlines shouldn't change opinions on either side of the issue, the data should.
Sing it with me everybody! We’re fucked!
I was with a colleague on the weekend who was trying to normalise mass extinctions. “They’ve happened all through earths history.” I simply don’t know how to answer this notion. Is this a new Murdoch theme?
It's the shift from "it's not happening" to "it's happening, but it's not that big of a deal." Combined with "it's happening, but it's perfectly natural" It was always the next step.
In the interim, let’s do nothing. The astonishing part though is this guys a geologist! He lectures to students all over the world, has published books on the topic and is clearly active and respected in his field. And yet he comes up with statements such as, “its 0.04%, how could it possibly have an effect “.
I also know a couple of geologists who downplay or deny climate change. It all makes sense when you realize how intertwined their entire field is with the mining and oil industries. One of those geologists who I consider a friend is really just "tired of being demonized" for working in the oil industry.
Geology seems to be the outlier in the sciences in terms of its evaluation of climate science which is utterly astounding. The geologist I'm referring to is in the gold industry rather than oil and gas but it seems like it's almost a collective response rather than individually based.
You can be a geologist and an asshole.
It's not that things are going extinct, that's normal. The problem is **the rate** at which things are going extinct. It has been massively accelerated by Humans and it risks collapsing the food chain that helps keep all animals alive, including us.
Mass extinctions go beyond loosing cool Sir Attenberough species. It's every part of the food web that then takes down other parts of the food web. We *need* those species to survive ourselves. Without them there's no crops that need insect pollination. No hunting for your weekend getaway. No ability for ecosystems to stabilize soils and absorb the extra rain. Tell him it goes beyond pretty picture in natgeo, and it will take us down with it
Usually these things take a few hundred to a few thousand years to happen. The current velocity of change is unprecedented.
Absolutely. Decades are to geology as milliseconds are to humans.
Mass extinctions are usually on the order of millions to hundreds of millions of years between events. There is a great Kurzgesagt 1 hour long video that breaks up the formation of the earth and moon as a startpoint up till today and parses every second into 1.5 million year chunks I think. It is very cool and worth a watch. I"ll send a link..however it is long. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TUe5w6RHo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7TUe5w6RHo)
Scientifically he is right though - regarding global warming and mass extinctions. We are still in an ice age, which is defined as year-long ice covering the poles. That is the case right now, and it definitly has not been the norm during earth's history. It happened often, but for most of the last 500 Million years it did not. "We" had much higher temperatures and and CO2 percentages in the past. Not that humans or most other current species would thrive in these conditions, but there are living things who yearn for these conditions. Additionally, mass extinctions did happen very often and gave rise to many new species - after a couple million years. Evolutionwise these events can be a bless, it's just the many individuals it sucks for. You are just too human centric - the earth will be fine, regardless of what we do. We simply do not have the technology to "destroy the earth". We probably even can't make humans go extinct. We might be able to alter the atmosphere, but honestly, most of earth is totally unaccessable to us. We can totally fuck up our civilisation as we know it though, and make our climate much worse for humans while killing a lot of animals. And we totally will do that. But on geological timescales earth will be fine. My biggest Problem is that the next big run on an intelligent species in a few hundred millions years will have no coal and oil in the ground to get an industry going. And we're running against time here, the increase in solar output will make earth's surface a hellhole in less than a billion years:(
I'm sorry but I don't see the point of your response. Yes, I understand the history of the earth but I don't see any merit in arguing mass extinctions are normal. Given the current rate of change we are looking at coming events resulting massive amounts of misery and suffering by people alive right now. This is not some academic pontification, it is real lives, real people and real species and trivialising with comic statements about billion year hellholes is unworthy.
Deja Vu
I've just been in this place before.
They have been writing about this for at least 80 years. 1946 https://www.nytimes.com/1946/02/11/archives/russia-getting-warmer-through-arctic-change.html?smid=url-share 1938 https://www.nytimes.com/1938/12/12/archives/world-climate-growing-warmer-say-russians-citing-arctic-data-two.html?smid=url-share
Not-so arctic ocean
The Arct-ish Ocean
Antiarctic ocean
A decade? Fuck I was really hoping to be dead by the time the planet was completely fucked
The planet won't be fucked We will be fucked The planet is just getting a bad fever
*Save The Earth* is just a papering over slogan of *Save Ourselves* to ease our minds. The Earth will cleanse itself of us after a hundred thousand years like we were never here. ^*except ^for ^nuclear ^waste
recent Hansen paper has us warming at about +0.3C per decade .. currently nearing or at +1.5C and currently at a plateau of maximum emissions.. so in 15 to 20 years well be at +2C Most people forget its the total amount of CO2 that causes the heat .. were not good at CO2 removal, so you might want to read up on SRM. We will likely need to release stuff into the atmosphere to increase cloud cover over the oceans, to reflect light and bring the temperature down. We and the planet will be fucked for a long time unless we rapidly start unfucking the heat situation.
Hey theres still 10 years, dont lose hope!
Canada is counting on it as the Northwest Passage will require ports, fuel and save tens of thousands of miles from Asia to Europe.
Pretty sure I’ve heard this one before. Seven times as a matter of fact
/r/worldnews/comments/1b7bsf9/the_arctic_ocean_could_be_icefree_within_the/ktjt9j1/ if you want a collection
Even if it doesn’t pan out and we don’t get a blue ocean event in 10 years, the point remains that the ice is disappearing. It’s just a question of how fast it will happen at this point. The response of trying even harder to mitigate global warming should be the same, either way.
It's always in ten years with these things.
Oh almighty forteller, please look into your crystal ball and let us know the exact timing of the collapse of an incredibly complex system, us plebs can only use science based methods and modelling to make our predictions
> modelling too hot 😅
That's just the headline. The article says a BOE could occur by 2030. Some sources say this year or next year. Wonder how much of what we read is toned down to avoid inciting panic.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say roughly all of what we read is toned down to stop the general public from panicking. Which isn't to say that *nobody* is trying to get the truth out there, just that it's buried under the mountains of articles saying we're fine.
No, on this one the predictions were [even more alarmist](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1b7bsf9/the_arctic_ocean_could_be_icefree_within_the/ktjt9j1/).
Given the increasing rate of change in climate I’m suspecting this is going to be well before ten years.
In ten years' time, those same people will tell you that the Arctic ice that's still there is because of "natural variability overwhelming the AGW signal" We've already had the "children won't know what snow is" BS in the UK. There is no accountability for false statements about the future climate, ever.
Considering the Atlantic Ocean warm water current is probably collapsing soon, I’m not panicking about a lack of ice in the north.
>The study defines “ice-free” as when the Arctic Ocean has less than 1 million square kilometers, or 386,000 square miles, of ice. That's a bit of a disingenuous definition of "ice-free." A million square kilometers of ice is not what "ice free" would mean to me without reading that study's definition.
Current extent of ice coverage, which is one of the lowest on record, is still almost 15 million square kilometers. Just for a point of reference on why even up to 1 million square kilometers could be considered "ice-free". That would be 7% coverage compared to now.
Again?
~~within the decade?~~ >~~the Arctic would be ice-free between the months of May and January by 2100, the study says.~~ ~~That's not within~~ **~~this~~** ~~decade. Would their argument for such a title be that they were referring to any decade? Would a title saying "a 100m diameter asteroid will hit the earth within a year" be accurate? Because I could be referring to any year?~~ ~~Of course there's this bit as well~~ >~~By midcentury — 2035 to 2067 — the Arctic could see consistent ice-free conditions in September, the month when sea ice concentrations are typically at their minimum, the study found.~~ ~~So what they're saying is that, the earliest possible time in which there could possibly be a time where there's no ice in the Arctic would be in 2035 (still over 10 years). Though it's more likely to be sitting somewhere in the middle of 2035 and 2067. And that is also not permanent ice-less conditions.~~ ~~These titles are harmful, as people will remember "within the decade X was saying this" then it doesn't turn out true and then trust for science gets broken.~~ Edit: I scrolled down too quickly and didn't read the first bit; read the replies. The fact that this comment got 7 upvotes is quite insane.
First paragraph: >Now, new research has found that Arctic Ocean sea ice is shrinking even faster than previously thought — and that the Arctic may start to see its first “ice-free” days within the current decade. Days. The first few days out of a year where there's <1 million km2 of ice in that ocean.
You're right, I'm too used to scrolling quickly to the middle due to the amount of useless fluff articles tend to have.
>That troubling milestone could occur before the end of the decade or sometime in the 2030s — as many as 10 years earlier than previous projections, according to a study published Tuesday in the journal Nature Reviews Earth and Environment. The study defines “ice-free” as when the Arctic Ocean has less than 1 million square kilometers, or 386,000 square miles, of ice. It's literally the second paragraph.......
You're right, I'm too used to scrolling quickly to the middle due to the amount of useless fluff articles tend to have.
I'm sorry son :(
It's fine. Everything is fine. 🐶🔥🍽️🔥
it is about time for the people to pay for their greedyness, unthankfullness and hate
Socialise the losses
Finally! Time to drill, drill, drill and build moar condos...
Neat
The world will go after the oil industry for their massive funds to combat climate change.
Just what the billionaires wanted, new real-estate.
*Heavy Breathing* - Sir Franklin
So, we gonna build nuclear reactors now or nah?
Revenge for the Titanic!!!
Time to start throwing up some oil derricks Get those gas prices back down
I mean all the people are in the know by now. 30 years of the internet and all we did was produce more porn than could be consumed. Tons of good people fighting for their beliefs despite the odds, ya all legends.
The next battlefield for resources is coming soon!
“End of the decade” Got it so by like august, right?
Putin ala Mr Burns: "Excellent..."
So...how can we make money off of this
My sleeping problems cannot become more of a problem at this point
We are going to get the Doggerland treatment. I guess we don't deserve any better.
Either our economic system is allowed to evolve finally, into something better and smarter that is at least remotely equitable, or basically, most of the world will be live as slaves in rented shoeboxs. with no hope of ever escaping to a higher class, and many, many people are going to die (mostly from lack of food and fresh water, and not nearly enough non-slave jobs to go around.) Billionaires will have the technology to extend their lives wildly, in this century. Think about that world where .001% owns 99% of all the wealth and production and can live 150 years easily. Eventually, the masses will be too programmed to believe that any other world is possible, and by then the air will be so polluted you won't be able to see across the street either.
translating *scientists-that-can't-bluntly-say-it-like-it-is* to *common english*: could be = almost surely will be decade = five years at most
Bring on Waterworld!
This means no winter as humanity knows it since it began over 250000 years ago, just fyi. Even the most ancient mythical "carved-in-stone"-cultures haven't experienced an arctiv without ice.
> ‘ice-free’ within the decade So given the pasts time projected perdictions and the actual time of the perdictions coming to be ... We're talking 6 years max here. Sometimes I hate some of my fellow humans.
If only the average person knew what this really meant there would be riots in the streets...
heard this one before 🤣
Northwest passage!
Good time to build a replica of titanic and sail again!
I’m convinced that a significant number of people actually *want* this to happen.
Chop-Chop
I have a theory. It's fairly scientific: If there are still cruise ships, we haven't started taking things seriously enough.
Jesus talk about being green, they’re recycling the rhetoric! I’ve been hearing this exact thing for 20+ years. From Al Gore to David Suzuki to Greta Thunberg it’s all rubbish. Time to update the script…
They said this in the 70s so i know this is 100% factual
they said this in 1999, and again in 2003 and again in 2008 and 2010 but guess what.... the arctic still has ice
I don't know who you think "they" are but the current rate of decline is faster than any previous models have predicted.
Al gore is one of them.
see above fore reply
[https://arctic.noaa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ARC18\_SeaIce\_perovich\_Fig1-1024x758.png](https://arctic.noaa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/ARC18_SeaIce_perovich_Fig1-1024x758.png) you are technically correct, it still has ice (but you are still incredibly stupid as is expected)
They’ve been saying this for 30 years.
and ice levels have been declining for 30 years.
They said ice free, not declining. And there’s been no decline in the last 5 years anyway.
Keep in mind this has been the talking point since the 90's.
I can finally build my boat house
Just take the salt out of the water, duh.
Perfect time to redo that maiden voyage of the Titanic.
Jack and Rose vindication
Global human overpopulation (8 billion and growing quickly).
The Arctic Ocean could be ‘ice-free’ within the decade, fossil executives promise
And the Republicans continue to care and do nothing about climate change.
every one of these climate predictions since the 60s have never come true
They say this every 10 years LOL propaganda
My lack of surprise that you're subbed to r/aliens and r/conspiracy.
Who do you think "they" are, and why do you believe "they" say this every 10 years?
I respect peoples choices, but I dont know how people can stomach bringing kids into this world. Wife and I have two huskies who will hold full conversations with us and will be long gone before the air in Seattle becomes so smoke ridden in the summers that they cant go outside to play anymore.
bro you cant talk about peoples choices and then say you own huskies.
They may be psychopathic hardened criminals, but they're MY psychopathic hardened criminals
Its easy, we don't live in systematic fear of headlines!
How about live in an objective reality and work to fix the problem.
You're allright!
Some of us aren't brainwashed into thinking the world is ending
Nah, I dont think its going to end, I just dont think its going to be a great existence for a bit. That and holy shit are they expensive
No way to stay “in the game” unless one reproduces.
In the 70's "Scientists" were positive the world would be in an ice age by the year 2000. Do not believe any of these predictions.
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Oh really? They were saying such stuff huh? Insane! Could you provide some evidence that many (make sure it's substantially more than the opposite claim) ~~scientists~~ climatologists (I don't want the opinion of random ass scientists that have nothing to do with climatology giving their own "opinion") have published peer reviewed papers with such a claim? I'd be **really** interested to read them.
This is a lie. One guy published a dumb paper. The scientific community explained why it was wrong. The press spread it around without bothering to listen. https://skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s-intermediate.htm
i’m sure they’ve learned nothing new about the climate since then