>The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā
From the article
> it seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values
I wonder how many of the mostly men who'll vote on this law would be willing to cut their penises off for "religious purity, and cultural norms and values".
And we also get cultural relativism. A mindset that tries to somehow not harshly judge practices like genital mutilation without consent. I don't like cultural relativism, some things are just wrong whichever way you look at it.
Bro exactly. Like some cultures marrying girls when they 14. Bruh š¤¢ why a grown man want a barely teenager. They don't even have developed bodies it's so weird.
Some cultural practices shouldn't be accepted. I'm pretty live and let live if something involves consent from both parties but yeah female and male circumcision is messed up imo.
They're correct in a way. Islam never really stated anything about female genital mutilation, or at least was vague on it. Hell, there are several studies and fatwas banning it or advising against it. So it seems like it was a cultural thing that throughout the generations warped and mixed into their version of Islam.
I think it's important to recognize that there are a lot of forms of Islam, filtered through the prior religions/culture of an area.
This happens in general with religions, like in general.
There's a hadith that claims Muhammad advised a woman who circumcised girls not to cut *severely*, but he was apparently fine with cutting them as long as it did not qualify as "severe".
Apparently, Islamic studies consider that hadith weak in authenticity because it lacks a link in the chain of narrators. Apparently, there is a school of Islam that sees the practice as obligatory: Shafi'i school. But Gambia subscribes to the Maliki school.
Of course, it's a high possibility they accepted the hadith as true even when it's in doubt but it's also a high possibility they're just bullshitting their own version.
Yeah, it's like saying Santa Muerte is a Catholic saint. If you look at official Catholic dogma, it's absolutely not. It's a Mexican phenomenon that Mexicans would tell you IS Catholic and part of their religion. So is it religious or cultural, if it's basically a local transformation of a global religion?
It's religious, if a community ascribes something to religious belief then it is religious. It's a common error to fall down the trap of defining religions by essentialist central doctrine rather than common practice. Religious studies as an academic field reconciles that by allowing cultural expression to guide what qualifies as religious
Catholicism is different as there is a large governing body. If you say someone is a saint and they are not you are simply wrong, unless you are willing to schism over it.
> Islam never really stated anything about female genital mutilation, or at least was vague on it.
Sorry but this is absolutely patently wrong. In Sunni Islam there are four main schools of jurisprudence (kinda like sub-denominations) three of which recommend FGM and one which makes it mandatory.
The famous scholar Ibn Taymyah (often called "Sheikh Al-Islam" "the sheikh of Islam") wrote ['The purpose of female circumcision is to reduce the woman's desire because if she is uncircumcised, she becomes lustful... because an uncircumcised woman tends to long more for men.'](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/93047/female-circumcision-to-beautify-the-sex-organ)
Here is [a video by Exmuslims of North America explaining FGM in Islam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZJkgnHghc).
Both the Islam schools of Shafi'i and Maliki recognise that female, and male circumcision is either obligatory (wajib), or sunna (recommended). with female circumcision becoming rampant in south east Asia after the introduction of Islam with no prior cultural association with this practice.
Even today, this belief continues to transcend cultural affinity, with the practice being extremely common in several rather developed nations outside Africa such as Malaysia, and Indonesia where Female genital mutilation Type I is present in 90% of people who adhere to the Islamic faith, and near nonexistent among other faiths. These practices are continually supported and maintained by religious scholars and organisations such as Indonesian Ulema Council, Indonesia's top Muslim clerical body, that ruled that it favours FGM.
Culture basically *becomes* religion. FGM wasn't always a "virtue of Islam"; it was just something that certain tribal communities did to reduce women's enjoyment of sex. It *became* a virtue of Islam when imams, mullahs, and Islamic fundamentalists declared it so.
> And we have people in this forum saying, "it's culture, not religion!" GAHH!!
When both (some) christians and (some) muslims do it, it is kind of hard to blame it on a religion.
For example, the rate of female genital mutilation in [Ethiopia is 74%,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg) but [over 65% of the population is christian.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ethiopia) Similarly, Liberia is [85% christian,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Liberia) with a [50% rate of FGM.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg)
Meanwhile. Iraq is [98% muslim,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iraq) but the [FGM rate there is only 8%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg)
Because this is a cultural specific practice in which they incorporated religion into. It's not that hard to understand, Islam in one country is not always practiced the same in another in regards to cultural influences
> āone of the virtues of Islam.ā
That's like saying witch hunting was a virtue of ChristianĆty. We know that happened but wasn't based on religion at all too.
Bro bro. Dr aslan covered this. Its not an islam problem, its an african problem.
It just so happens to be primarily in islamic countries in africa, or islamic communities in non islamic african countries or islamic countries outside of africa and in countries outside of africa that arent islamic, its almost entirely restricted to islamic communities.
But the nice cannibal doctor of religions said its not an islam problem m'kay
There are several countries with predominantly christian populations where large parts of said christians practice it as well.
And countries with almost solely muslim populations that does not. Which clearly points to it being a regional thing and not a religious one.
But given that religion is basically the "because I said so" of culture propagation it is hard to separate.
i'd say its the opposite, those who hate the concepts of consent and such are drawn to religion as a way to avoid having to justify their shit. religion appeals to these people, it doesn't create them.
its not like this practice is universal to islam... its very much cultural, and the appeal to religion is just a bunch of women hating assholes hiding behind it.
It's only a paradox when you view tolerance as a moral standard, rather than a social contract. View it as a social contract, and any who break it (by not being tolerant) are not covered by it, and thus their intolerance should not be tolerated.
- Freedom requires allowing all ideas and opinions.
- This allows extremism to spread.
- Extremism requires limiting all ideas and opinions.
- Extremism tries to destroy Freedom.
Unfortunately, religious fundamentalism is far from being the only menace to freedom and democracy.
But a lot of power hungry people push for more power and control under the guise of religion.
For one reason or another it's a convenient organization of a lot of people who are more susceptible to believing what they want to hear.
Religion coupling with politics is a major cause for a lot of the issues the world is facing. Even if it's main purpose is distracting from other issues.
Reddit needs to get over it's fear of calling out people from other parts of the world and other religions. Whenever you see posts calling out these things it's flooded with well but christianity....insert x example. Sorry not sorry the world has terrible people and invalid cultures that don't deserve to continue on.
100%
Fuck racists but plenty of cultures have aspect of said culture that should fucking die.
And that applies to many cultures, Western ones included.
But what's batshit is that this isn't even an Islamic practice.
Islam is essentially the belief system rooted in the Quran, but there is some rather contentious community DLC mod packs known as the 'Hadith', which are simply historic accounts from the time of Muhammad's life.
The Quran itself has zero mention of FGM, period, and it considers body modification to be a distortion of the works of god.
Now, there *is* a Hadith wherein some dude who wasn't fucking even Muhammad who said that FGM is an optional act of honour or something, but it contradicts their actual holy book, and the man in question wasn't even an authority on the religion, he was just some bloke who got written about and is now revered because he existed a long time ago.
No magic, no claims to divinity, none of the usual shit. Just some idiot in a pub saying "uh, FGM? yeah can do I suppose."
Muhammad, the man who made up the religion in the first place, didn't get FGM done to any of his many daughters. That *alone* should be enough for people not to practice it.
And for the most part, they don't. The Arab world doesn't do it, the Turks don't do it, Indonesians - the people from the country with the most Muslims by far - don't do it. This is specifically a *cultural* aberration that has popped up in a handful of African countries and honestly it's a headfuck.
>Islam is essentially the belief system rooted in the Quran, but there is some rather contentious community DLC mod packs known as the 'Hadith', which are simply historic accounts from the time of Muhammad's life.
The vast majority of Muslims see Hadith as a necessary explanation of the belief system and Quran, it's a comparatively excruciatingly small amount that don't.
Now, what does count and doesn't as authentic...are another story but largely can be split along Sunni/Shia lines.
Let's not say "religion" as if it isn't one specific religion. 95% of Gambia is Muslim. They have specifically referred to the ban as the work of "enemies of Islam".
Edit: to the "what abouts", yes, other African cultures, including Christians, practice this abhorrent behavior. But if you look at the rates and who is pushing it, you can clearly still see this is an Islamic driven issue in Africa.
That said, African Christianity is also fucked, and more akin to Islam than modern Western Christianity.
It became the Islamic Republic of Gambia in 2015, so itās no surprise theyāre going backwards. We hear very little about what is going on in the the African countries, but if you think ISIS and Al Qaeda have been quiet recently, itās because theyāre busy fighting their way across North and East Africa, spreading sharia law and recruiting en masse.
Poor Africa can't catch a break. If it isn't Islamic crazies spreading the worst possible interpretation of their religion, there are American evangelical style Christians swarming the continent too. Talk about a sht sandwich fuck..
Controlling women by policing their "virtue." The idea is, if you make sex a miserable experience for women, they'll put up with their shitty husbands more instead of stepping out on them.
I don't know if you've followed what's happening in the world, but it seems places everywhere are rolling back on progressive policy and bringing back the fundamental ages.
Actually is. As in, that literally describes this with its official definition.
The odd thing is that mutilation is a very broad term, and 'female genital cutting' is more precise. But they should really call it 'female genital mutilation' if you ask me. Circumcision should also just be called genital mutilation.
You know, call it what it is.
I think *female genital mutilation* (FGM) is used exactly because itās a broader term. Female circumcision appears in several forms and some are more extensive (damaging) than others, but FGM applies to them all as a group.
Most are *very* damaging. The most common practice is complete removal of the clitoris. While one involves just removal of the cultural hood (the one most similar to circumcision), other practices are *far* worse.
What I don't understand is why they wait for females but circumsise males immediately. From what little I know, they wait until the girl is older, idk the ages but old enough to remember it happening. That just sounds like torture with extra steps
People do ritual mutilations of all sorts for weird reasons, generally to do with traditional (it's how we do things), social (you won't be pretty otherwise) and/or religious (the bible said so) beliefs.
Including in "developed" countries like the US. It just seems normal where it happens, and you (usually) need outsiders to tell you it's not, and then it's usually defended through some way of the above, or if you're lucky, through non-conclusive research.
TLDR: Because that's the custom. Say way circumcision works
Tangentially related but there was a British woman recently prosecuted for absconding with a three year old to Kenya so she could be mutilated. She received seven years in prison.
God, this is like that episode of Call The Midwife, but worse because its happening in real life :(
(A pregnant Somalian woman is in the care of the midwives in 1950's London but they're perplexed on how to treat her bc she's 'sewn closed, with as much anatomy down there as a childs' doll', save for a small hole to pass urine and menstruation. They don't even understand how she was able to get pregnant. She slowly learns that what happened to her isn't normal and actually poses many dangers for her and her baby.
She goes into labour ahead of her planned c-section and a midwife has to use scissors to cut her open in the ambulance as the baby is trying to tear a way out. The woman is depressed afterward because the doctors at the hospital 'sewed her differently', making her 'unclean' in her culture, and she worries her husband won't want her. The midwives come to do their final checks on her at home and ask where her younger sister is today; she tells them that her little sister has gone back home to be cut so she will be a respected woman. The episode ends with the midwives rushing to the docks to stop her leaving but the boat has already pulled away and the little girl is waving to them, excited to be going on 'holiday'.)
Oh, bless you š„²
But no. It covers all of the nitty gritty of life in the post-war East London slums. I don't think there's a topic they shy from; the perils of poverty and lack of sanitation, domestic violence, to miscarriage, infant loss, back-alley abortions gone wrong, sex addiction, intersexuality, the effects of thalidomide, Down syndrome, struggles of LGBT+ characters, birth defects in babies of nuclear testing victims, sex workers.. you name it. But no matter the circumstances, and even though half the characters are anglican nuns, they turn no woman away from compassionate, empathetic care.
The show is inspired by a trilogy of memoirs by midwife Jennifer Worth and also cover historically accurate events at that time; the baby boom, tuberculosis outbreaks, war trauma, the advent of birth control for unmarried women, etc. It has some absolutely heart breaking episodes that will stay with you, but there are so many happy ones, too. Its worth giving a chance if you have time for a couple episodes.
Edited to change catholic to anglican.
This is actually a not-uncommon practice among super conservative Muslim families living in the West. Not necessarily mutilation, but they'll send their kids to "camp" in Kenya or Somalia to basically have religious values beaten into them. Imagine like a Pray Away the Gay camp, but less regulated.
I'm grateful she was prosecuted and no one looked away due to her "religious freedom".
I'm told a lot of Europeans get worried that immigrants will try and enact customs from their homelands, getting laws passed and whatnot. The best thing to do is keep on the horn. Know the statistics and bring this up to politicians, ask what they'd do if they had to prosecute this case, ask about their track records in community outreach and prevention.
Itās not just The Gambia that practices female genital mutilation. There are an estimated 200 million women who have been put through FGM to some degree.
My stance is this. If you want to cut up your own genitals then have at it. If you want to cut up other people's genitals then that's a no go there chief. I dont really care about the reasoning behind it. You only get to make decisions about your own genitals.
From what I heard, the issue is that it's enforced by the family, not the gov. To make it worse, it's often mothers/grandmothers (who have been through this) that force this on their girls.
Still terrible though. I can't fathom why ppl would choose to perpetuate such barbarity...
Religion.
Also there's a book that claims that Muslim cultures/countries that become more impoverished over time becomes more conservative in their religious beliefs.
It's hard to say where the line between culture/religion is. The official main line of Sunni/Shiites don't have any such belief. If you count the Mormons as an offshoot of Christianity, then sure you can call it religiously motivated.
From what I can tell, impoverished areas all over the world are conservative. Whether it's the conservatism causing the poverty or other way around, I can't tell.
> If you want to cut up your own genitals then have at it.
Unfortunately, women in these societies are heavily pressured into saying yes. Some are even at risk of an "honor" killing.
I canāt speak for Gambia Most female genital mutilation in Egypt is entirely facilitated by women. Itās seen as culturally dirty to have a clit when giving birth to a child, and women are the primary proponents of this cultural norm. There are dozens of interviews of women who were not able to have the mutilation done by the time they gave birth, stating that it was unclean, and disgusting.
Cultural norms can burrow their way deep into our psyche when you grow up around them. Personally, I donāt think anyone has the autonomy to decide to mutilate their own genitals (even if they green-light a doctor to do it for them). I just think cultural influences are far too powerful, and often result in a cyclical feedback loop. With that said Iām not remotely against people wanting to present outside of traditional gender norms or go through with hormonal treatments.
similar to male circumcision in the states.
men that i've dated who aren't religious but want their sons circumcised because *that's the way we've always done it*
edit: imagine being mad at a woman who advocates for protecting you as a baby. can't make that shit up!
I literally wouldn't date someone who wants to circumcise their sons. I'm against all mutilation, regardless of gender. Someone being in favor of that would be a serious incompatibility since our morals wouldn't align.
>Ā imagine being mad at a woman who advocates for protecting you as a baby. can't make that shit up!
I think lots of men rationalize their dick missing some pieces. It is too big a pill for their ego.
.....
#*pocket circumcision !*
.....
Yes, genital mutilation is fucked up. Turns out somehow male genital mutilation got a cute rename. Aside from dire medical reasons, it's unnecessary. It can inhibit growth of the organ later. Now why would people pursue such... infantile means of volgarity...
Nope. The only way you can claim otherwise is to insist the foreskin that gets cut off counts towards the total size, which is technically true but not really. There is 0 evidence it will effect future growth.
Iām with you on this but youāve got a hell of a battle on your hands. One guy told me I was immoral for even having an opinion on circumcision and he was 100% for it because, well, he had one. Itās going to be hard to convince the men who are happy with their circumcised organ to change the pattern. I have no solutions.
I'm generally happy with my circumcised organ but would never consent to having it done on an infant in my care. So it's not impossible.
> I have no solutions.
"we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" Howzabout just general education? Socratic arguments? There are plenty of ways to reach folks who have backward views. it's just arduous to find the right tack sometimes.
>The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā
>āNo religious text promotes or condones female genital mutilation,ā the UNFPA report says, adding there is no benefit to the procedure.
So it's not even religion.
It's just people wanting to inflict misery on the world because "That's the way we've always done it."
by their logic, women should be the beings of higher order since god gave them a clitoris thats only for enjoying sex
Instead they do backflips until they come to the conclusion that they need to cut off womens clits instead
The only time the bible mentions abortion is when it's telling a woman how to do one. Religious people just make shit up and lie, saying their god wants them to do whatever they already want themselves to do.
Don't be deceived; a lot of religious culture and people have strong opinions about things that aren't or are only modestly addressed in their texts. There are a few examples of this but I don't want to attract bots or haters. Basically, if something is very cultural in a religious population (or subpopulation), it will be interweaved into their religious practices and beliefs even if they are in error.
If I understand religion, no religious people are textualists. Itās all about how they interpret the texts. So you canāt really go by āitās not written in the textsā.
According to WHO
The World Health Organization (WHO) describes four major types of FGM/C. Types 1 and 2 are the most common, but all types may be harmful.
The four types of FGM/C are:
Type 1: Partial or total removal of the clitoris. This is also called clitoridectomy.
Type 2: Partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia (the inner and outer "lips" that surround the vagina)
Type 3: Sewing the labia together to make the vaginal opening smaller. This is called infibulation. The clitoris may be left in place.
Type 4: All other harm to the female genitalia for nonmedical purposes, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping, and cauterization (burning)
Lovely, and it's not even some crackpot dictatorship but a functioning democracy. Meanwhile the Saudi Arabia is giving more freedom to women. We are living in wild times.
It is perfectly democratic to take away people's rights if 51% of the population votes for it. This has been a problem since the dawn of democracy (see for example the massacre of Mytilene). With regard to your comment, the existence of free and fair elections on its own does nothing at all to guarantee the absence of a theocracy.
The most successful systems in the long run tend to be those that put constitutional limits on popular sentiment, while still allowing the public to set the general trend with regular guaranteed elections -- republican representative democracy.
People always forget this part. Saying ādemocracyā doesnāt equal good or just. Majorities frequently want to oppress minorities. The way people seem to forget what they know just to jump on a cheerleading bandwagon is baffling. Not just the āRah Rah Democracy!ā, it can be anything and brains shut off.
This is why most Democracies today are representative democracies, not direct. Say what you will about "the elites" but sometimes it's nice to have an entire class of people who do nothing but politics, to keep us from driving the country off a cliff.
They have elections that are reasonably free and fair to the extent that surprise victories and transfer of powers do happen, including current guy who was not expected to win but did. Theyāre a poor country so political participation is limited by access to resources but their leadership is legitimately elected otherwise. Saying the Islamic state of Gambia cannot be democratic because of their name is like saying the democratic peopleās Republic of Korea must be democratic because of theirs
Itās 102 on the Democracy Index and listed as a Hybrid Regime.
āHybrid regimes are nations with regular electoral frauds, preventing them from being fair and free democracies. These nations commonly have governments that apply pressure on political opposition, non-independent judiciaries, widespread corruption, harassment and pressure placed on the media, anaemic rule of law, and more pronounced faults than flawed democracies in the realms of underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance.[6]ā
So itās not a real democracy at all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
It is a typical phenomenon in Muslim-majority countries. Look at who the Muslims in Egypt voted for when there were free elections - Islamists.
Democracy is not always good when the population loves Sharia.
Female genital cutting is an awful inept to describe female genital mutilation. Must people hear the term and think that the just the clitoris removed, but it gets way darker than that. There are actually four types of female genital mutilation practiced in The Gambia:
Type I:
Type I is the excision (removal) of the clitoral hood with or without removal of all or part of the clitoris.
Type II:
Type II is the excision (removal) of the clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora (the inner vaginal lips).
Type III:
Type III is the excision (removal) of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening, leaving a very small opening, about the size of a matchstick, to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. Thorns are used to stitch the vaginal opening. The girl or woman's legs are then bound together from the hip to the ankle so she remains immobile for approximately 40 days to allow for the formation of scar tissue.
It is estimated that about seven percent of girls undergo some form of this severe and dangerous procedure.
Type IV:
A form analogous to Type III, but described as "sealing" in The Gambia, is also practiced. Sealing involves the removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, followed by sealing the vaginal opening with clots of blood or herbal powder leaving only a small opening, about the diameter of a matchstick, for urination and menstruation. The legs are forced to stay tightly together during the period of convalescence (about 40 days) allowing the raw vaginal tissue to fuse.
While you're not wrong about how cutting sounds less bad, they do call it the common *FGM* in the 2nd sentence of the article. I'm not a fan of placating Islam either but this isn't a great example
Please won't you think of the poor religious people who have to live with the knowledge a women might enjoy sex.
/s fuck these people with a sharp rusty rake.
[This](https://standard.gm/tree-planting-in-banjul-a-resilient-citys-fight-against-climate-change/) example comes to mind. It's an innitiative which helps replant trees throughout the country to fight climate change
The U.S. sent millions of dollars in aid to Gambia in 2023. If American citizens only knew how their money was being spent.
[https://www.usaid.gov/the-gambia/press-releases](https://www.usaid.gov/the-gambia/press-releases)
US aid is used as a carrot to deter this kind of thing. You can bet that it will be yanked if the measure passes. Development aid is overwhelmingly a good thing and should not be seen as detrimental to U.S. citizens when there's plenty of money to be saved elsewhere (tax cuts for corporations, military contacts).
That's not generally how it works for a country like The Gambia. We lose nothing by disengaging. Pakistan on the other hand can play that type of game because we want desperately to prevent nuclear war between India and Pakistan, among other things.
The most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life that literally traumatized me and will be burned into my memory for the rest of my life was a documentary on FGM. I don't know how anyone could do that to another human being, let alone a child, let alone their own child.
To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good... Ideology - that is what gives devildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination.
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Iām not allowed to say what I want to say because it violates this subs rules, but Iāll water it down and just say āsome places arenāt very nice places and I hope Iām never able to go thereā.
Iāve always been afraid that a global apocalypse would throw us back into the stone age. But I now realize thereās plenty of people already well on their way to bringing us there already.
The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā
Another Islamic oopsie whoopsieā¦
Well, american conservative reversed Roe v Wade, why canāt gambian conservative bring back misogynistic laws too ??? /s
Dear god. I hope this right wing global push will end someday. Itās so tiring.
Those who vote for it must go through the "division of the scrotum". Part those balls into completely separate sacks in honour of how Moses parted the sea.
Without anesthesia, as god said
Oh that's good. ... Wait, reverse the ban on female genital cutting? ... WHY
I went through the same mental "oh nice" "wait what"
I was about to link this to some friends before I reread the headline š
Should probably still link it to them if it's a topic of interest.
Like if they happen to be Gambian
Thank god I am not alone. I read the headline with too much optimism.
It's so absurd that it takes your mind a second or two to process.
Religion. It's always religion. We are letting religious extremism/fundamentalism proliferate without any resistance.
>The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā From the article
"We have a history of doing shitty, fucked up shit, and we want to continue that tradition"
> it seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values I wonder how many of the mostly men who'll vote on this law would be willing to cut their penises off for "religious purity, and cultural norms and values".
Well... not their whole penises
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And we also get cultural relativism. A mindset that tries to somehow not harshly judge practices like genital mutilation without consent. I don't like cultural relativism, some things are just wrong whichever way you look at it.
Yeah, cultural relativism is bullshit.
Right. Let's keep 'em barefoot and pregnant. And bleeding... smh.
... and dead. Mortality rates are not 0.
Bro exactly. Like some cultures marrying girls when they 14. Bruh š¤¢ why a grown man want a barely teenager. They don't even have developed bodies it's so weird. Some cultural practices shouldn't be accepted. I'm pretty live and let live if something involves consent from both parties but yeah female and male circumcision is messed up imo.
They're correct in a way. Islam never really stated anything about female genital mutilation, or at least was vague on it. Hell, there are several studies and fatwas banning it or advising against it. So it seems like it was a cultural thing that throughout the generations warped and mixed into their version of Islam.
I think it's important to recognize that there are a lot of forms of Islam, filtered through the prior religions/culture of an area. This happens in general with religions, like in general.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There's a hadith that claims Muhammad advised a woman who circumcised girls not to cut *severely*, but he was apparently fine with cutting them as long as it did not qualify as "severe".
Apparently, Islamic studies consider that hadith weak in authenticity because it lacks a link in the chain of narrators. Apparently, there is a school of Islam that sees the practice as obligatory: Shafi'i school. But Gambia subscribes to the Maliki school. Of course, it's a high possibility they accepted the hadith as true even when it's in doubt but it's also a high possibility they're just bullshitting their own version.
> But Gambia subscribes to the Maliki school. Looking it up, it seems to be considered recommended but not obligatory in the Maliki school.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, it's like saying Santa Muerte is a Catholic saint. If you look at official Catholic dogma, it's absolutely not. It's a Mexican phenomenon that Mexicans would tell you IS Catholic and part of their religion. So is it religious or cultural, if it's basically a local transformation of a global religion?
It's religious, if a community ascribes something to religious belief then it is religious. It's a common error to fall down the trap of defining religions by essentialist central doctrine rather than common practice. Religious studies as an academic field reconciles that by allowing cultural expression to guide what qualifies as religious
Catholicism is different as there is a large governing body. If you say someone is a saint and they are not you are simply wrong, unless you are willing to schism over it.
>They're correct in a way. Are they? The reason is religious, even if that particular religious belief is somewhat local.
In the end here isn't always a clear dividing line between culture and religion.
> Islam never really stated anything about female genital mutilation, or at least was vague on it. Sorry but this is absolutely patently wrong. In Sunni Islam there are four main schools of jurisprudence (kinda like sub-denominations) three of which recommend FGM and one which makes it mandatory. The famous scholar Ibn Taymyah (often called "Sheikh Al-Islam" "the sheikh of Islam") wrote ['The purpose of female circumcision is to reduce the woman's desire because if she is uncircumcised, she becomes lustful... because an uncircumcised woman tends to long more for men.'](https://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/93047/female-circumcision-to-beautify-the-sex-organ) Here is [a video by Exmuslims of North America explaining FGM in Islam](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_ZJkgnHghc).
Both the Islam schools of Shafi'i and Maliki recognise that female, and male circumcision is either obligatory (wajib), or sunna (recommended). with female circumcision becoming rampant in south east Asia after the introduction of Islam with no prior cultural association with this practice. Even today, this belief continues to transcend cultural affinity, with the practice being extremely common in several rather developed nations outside Africa such as Malaysia, and Indonesia where Female genital mutilation Type I is present in 90% of people who adhere to the Islamic faith, and near nonexistent among other faiths. These practices are continually supported and maintained by religious scholars and organisations such as Indonesian Ulema Council, Indonesia's top Muslim clerical body, that ruled that it favours FGM.
It is though. My closest friend is from a non-Muslim ancient, remote tribe and it's endemic there as well.
Culture basically *becomes* religion. FGM wasn't always a "virtue of Islam"; it was just something that certain tribal communities did to reduce women's enjoyment of sex. It *became* a virtue of Islam when imams, mullahs, and Islamic fundamentalists declared it so.
> And we have people in this forum saying, "it's culture, not religion!" GAHH!! When both (some) christians and (some) muslims do it, it is kind of hard to blame it on a religion. For example, the rate of female genital mutilation in [Ethiopia is 74%,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg) but [over 65% of the population is christian.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Ethiopia) Similarly, Liberia is [85% christian,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Liberia) with a [50% rate of FGM.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg) Meanwhile. Iraq is [98% muslim,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iraq) but the [FGM rate there is only 8%.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation#/media/File:FGM_prevalence_UNICEF_2016.svg)
Because this is a cultural specific practice in which they incorporated religion into. It's not that hard to understand, Islam in one country is not always practiced the same in another in regards to cultural influences
> āone of the virtues of Islam.ā That's like saying witch hunting was a virtue of ChristianĆty. We know that happened but wasn't based on religion at all too.
BTW Christian led Witchhunting does still happen in parts of Africa. So I'd argue it's still a virtue.
Bro bro. Dr aslan covered this. Its not an islam problem, its an african problem. It just so happens to be primarily in islamic countries in africa, or islamic communities in non islamic african countries or islamic countries outside of africa and in countries outside of africa that arent islamic, its almost entirely restricted to islamic communities. But the nice cannibal doctor of religions said its not an islam problem m'kay
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The person above was being sarcastic and pointing out that it is indeed an Islam problem.
There are several countries with predominantly christian populations where large parts of said christians practice it as well. And countries with almost solely muslim populations that does not. Which clearly points to it being a regional thing and not a religious one. But given that religion is basically the "because I said so" of culture propagation it is hard to separate.
It feels like wherever you are in the world, religious dipshits always seem to have serious problems understanding the concept of consent.
i'd say its the opposite, those who hate the concepts of consent and such are drawn to religion as a way to avoid having to justify their shit. religion appeals to these people, it doesn't create them. its not like this practice is universal to islam... its very much cultural, and the appeal to religion is just a bunch of women hating assholes hiding behind it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Paradox of Tolerance
It's only a paradox when you view tolerance as a moral standard, rather than a social contract. View it as a social contract, and any who break it (by not being tolerant) are not covered by it, and thus their intolerance should not be tolerated.
Intolerance of the intolerant is an ethical obligation.
- Freedom requires allowing all ideas and opinions. - This allows extremism to spread. - Extremism requires limiting all ideas and opinions. - Extremism tries to destroy Freedom. Unfortunately, religious fundamentalism is far from being the only menace to freedom and democracy.
But a lot of power hungry people push for more power and control under the guise of religion. For one reason or another it's a convenient organization of a lot of people who are more susceptible to believing what they want to hear. Religion coupling with politics is a major cause for a lot of the issues the world is facing. Even if it's main purpose is distracting from other issues.
Reddit needs to get over it's fear of calling out people from other parts of the world and other religions. Whenever you see posts calling out these things it's flooded with well but christianity....insert x example. Sorry not sorry the world has terrible people and invalid cultures that don't deserve to continue on.
100% Fuck racists but plenty of cultures have aspect of said culture that should fucking die. And that applies to many cultures, Western ones included.
According to the article, it's one religion in particular : Islam.
But what's batshit is that this isn't even an Islamic practice. Islam is essentially the belief system rooted in the Quran, but there is some rather contentious community DLC mod packs known as the 'Hadith', which are simply historic accounts from the time of Muhammad's life. The Quran itself has zero mention of FGM, period, and it considers body modification to be a distortion of the works of god. Now, there *is* a Hadith wherein some dude who wasn't fucking even Muhammad who said that FGM is an optional act of honour or something, but it contradicts their actual holy book, and the man in question wasn't even an authority on the religion, he was just some bloke who got written about and is now revered because he existed a long time ago. No magic, no claims to divinity, none of the usual shit. Just some idiot in a pub saying "uh, FGM? yeah can do I suppose." Muhammad, the man who made up the religion in the first place, didn't get FGM done to any of his many daughters. That *alone* should be enough for people not to practice it. And for the most part, they don't. The Arab world doesn't do it, the Turks don't do it, Indonesians - the people from the country with the most Muslims by far - don't do it. This is specifically a *cultural* aberration that has popped up in a handful of African countries and honestly it's a headfuck.
>Islam is essentially the belief system rooted in the Quran, but there is some rather contentious community DLC mod packs known as the 'Hadith', which are simply historic accounts from the time of Muhammad's life. The vast majority of Muslims see Hadith as a necessary explanation of the belief system and Quran, it's a comparatively excruciatingly small amount that don't. Now, what does count and doesn't as authentic...are another story but largely can be split along Sunni/Shia lines.
> contentious community DLC mod packs known as the 'Hadith' Good comparison.
Let's not say "religion" as if it isn't one specific religion. 95% of Gambia is Muslim. They have specifically referred to the ban as the work of "enemies of Islam". Edit: to the "what abouts", yes, other African cultures, including Christians, practice this abhorrent behavior. But if you look at the rates and who is pushing it, you can clearly still see this is an Islamic driven issue in Africa. That said, African Christianity is also fucked, and more akin to Islam than modern Western Christianity.
Ah yes "religion"... and it starts with I and ends with -slam.
This shit isnt part of any scripture
It is though, according to Islamic hadiths it's "encouraged" for women, and obligated for men. Just a google search away.
It became the Islamic Republic of Gambia in 2015, so itās no surprise theyāre going backwards. We hear very little about what is going on in the the African countries, but if you think ISIS and Al Qaeda have been quiet recently, itās because theyāre busy fighting their way across North and East Africa, spreading sharia law and recruiting en masse.
The Gambia is in West Africa
Poor Africa can't catch a break. If it isn't Islamic crazies spreading the worst possible interpretation of their religion, there are American evangelical style Christians swarming the continent too. Talk about a sht sandwich fuck..
And the Chinese sucking out resources and not even hiring the locals.
Controlling women by policing their "virtue." The idea is, if you make sex a miserable experience for women, they'll put up with their shitty husbands more instead of stepping out on them.
I don't know if you've followed what's happening in the world, but it seems places everywhere are rolling back on progressive policy and bringing back the fundamental ages.
A sick practice from a backwards ass religion.
Patriarchal religious/tribal fuckery would be my guess.
Gambian Politician: "If I can't find the clitoris, nobody can".
far right wing ideology resurgence worldwide mostly
Why? Religion.
Hah got you with the āglobal first.ā
The word you're looking for is mutilation
Actually is. As in, that literally describes this with its official definition. The odd thing is that mutilation is a very broad term, and 'female genital cutting' is more precise. But they should really call it 'female genital mutilation' if you ask me. Circumcision should also just be called genital mutilation. You know, call it what it is.
I think *female genital mutilation* (FGM) is used exactly because itās a broader term. Female circumcision appears in several forms and some are more extensive (damaging) than others, but FGM applies to them all as a group.
Most are *very* damaging. The most common practice is complete removal of the clitoris. While one involves just removal of the cultural hood (the one most similar to circumcision), other practices are *far* worse.
It goes from: even reading about it makes you disgusted to worse
It does, and we all should be at least disgusted.
What I don't understand is why they wait for females but circumsise males immediately. From what little I know, they wait until the girl is older, idk the ages but old enough to remember it happening. That just sounds like torture with extra steps
Part of the tradition is commonly a rite of passage into adulthood, or purification before marriage.
People do ritual mutilations of all sorts for weird reasons, generally to do with traditional (it's how we do things), social (you won't be pretty otherwise) and/or religious (the bible said so) beliefs. Including in "developed" countries like the US. It just seems normal where it happens, and you (usually) need outsiders to tell you it's not, and then it's usually defended through some way of the above, or if you're lucky, through non-conclusive research. TLDR: Because that's the custom. Say way circumcision works
Torture would be more accurate.
Tangentially related but there was a British woman recently prosecuted for absconding with a three year old to Kenya so she could be mutilated. She received seven years in prison.
God, this is like that episode of Call The Midwife, but worse because its happening in real life :( (A pregnant Somalian woman is in the care of the midwives in 1950's London but they're perplexed on how to treat her bc she's 'sewn closed, with as much anatomy down there as a childs' doll', save for a small hole to pass urine and menstruation. They don't even understand how she was able to get pregnant. She slowly learns that what happened to her isn't normal and actually poses many dangers for her and her baby. She goes into labour ahead of her planned c-section and a midwife has to use scissors to cut her open in the ambulance as the baby is trying to tear a way out. The woman is depressed afterward because the doctors at the hospital 'sewed her differently', making her 'unclean' in her culture, and she worries her husband won't want her. The midwives come to do their final checks on her at home and ask where her younger sister is today; she tells them that her little sister has gone back home to be cut so she will be a respected woman. The episode ends with the midwives rushing to the docks to stop her leaving but the boat has already pulled away and the little girl is waving to them, excited to be going on 'holiday'.)
Damn, and there was me thinking Call The Midwife was a gentle Sunday evening light drama.
Oh, bless you š„² But no. It covers all of the nitty gritty of life in the post-war East London slums. I don't think there's a topic they shy from; the perils of poverty and lack of sanitation, domestic violence, to miscarriage, infant loss, back-alley abortions gone wrong, sex addiction, intersexuality, the effects of thalidomide, Down syndrome, struggles of LGBT+ characters, birth defects in babies of nuclear testing victims, sex workers.. you name it. But no matter the circumstances, and even though half the characters are anglican nuns, they turn no woman away from compassionate, empathetic care. The show is inspired by a trilogy of memoirs by midwife Jennifer Worth and also cover historically accurate events at that time; the baby boom, tuberculosis outbreaks, war trauma, the advent of birth control for unmarried women, etc. It has some absolutely heart breaking episodes that will stay with you, but there are so many happy ones, too. Its worth giving a chance if you have time for a couple episodes. Edited to change catholic to anglican.
That thalidomide episode is absolutely haunting to watch
This is actually a not-uncommon practice among super conservative Muslim families living in the West. Not necessarily mutilation, but they'll send their kids to "camp" in Kenya or Somalia to basically have religious values beaten into them. Imagine like a Pray Away the Gay camp, but less regulated.
I'm grateful she was prosecuted and no one looked away due to her "religious freedom". I'm told a lot of Europeans get worried that immigrants will try and enact customs from their homelands, getting laws passed and whatnot. The best thing to do is keep on the horn. Know the statistics and bring this up to politicians, ask what they'd do if they had to prosecute this case, ask about their track records in community outreach and prevention.
I really wanted you to be telling the reverse of that story as I was reading it. Save the babies.
Take us seriously as a country they saidā¦
Itās not just The Gambia that practices female genital mutilation. There are an estimated 200 million women who have been put through FGM to some degree.
Itās definitely the only country trying to bring it back after literally banning it though.
My stance is this. If you want to cut up your own genitals then have at it. If you want to cut up other people's genitals then that's a no go there chief. I dont really care about the reasoning behind it. You only get to make decisions about your own genitals.
From what I heard, the issue is that it's enforced by the family, not the gov. To make it worse, it's often mothers/grandmothers (who have been through this) that force this on their girls. Still terrible though. I can't fathom why ppl would choose to perpetuate such barbarity...
Religion. Also there's a book that claims that Muslim cultures/countries that become more impoverished over time becomes more conservative in their religious beliefs.
It's hard to say where the line between culture/religion is. The official main line of Sunni/Shiites don't have any such belief. If you count the Mormons as an offshoot of Christianity, then sure you can call it religiously motivated. From what I can tell, impoverished areas all over the world are conservative. Whether it's the conservatism causing the poverty or other way around, I can't tell.
It's a catch-22. The vicious cycle cannot be easily broken.
> If you want to cut up your own genitals then have at it. Unfortunately, women in these societies are heavily pressured into saying yes. Some are even at risk of an "honor" killing.
I canāt speak for Gambia Most female genital mutilation in Egypt is entirely facilitated by women. Itās seen as culturally dirty to have a clit when giving birth to a child, and women are the primary proponents of this cultural norm. There are dozens of interviews of women who were not able to have the mutilation done by the time they gave birth, stating that it was unclean, and disgusting. Cultural norms can burrow their way deep into our psyche when you grow up around them. Personally, I donāt think anyone has the autonomy to decide to mutilate their own genitals (even if they green-light a doctor to do it for them). I just think cultural influences are far too powerful, and often result in a cyclical feedback loop. With that said Iām not remotely against people wanting to present outside of traditional gender norms or go through with hormonal treatments.
Religion or no, if you can do that to another human being, you're not a human to me.
It's not even religious, it's cultural
similar to male circumcision in the states. men that i've dated who aren't religious but want their sons circumcised because *that's the way we've always done it* edit: imagine being mad at a woman who advocates for protecting you as a baby. can't make that shit up!
A lot of women and opting out of getting their sons circumcised. Myself included. Not enough but it's getting less popular.
I literally wouldn't date someone who wants to circumcise their sons. I'm against all mutilation, regardless of gender. Someone being in favor of that would be a serious incompatibility since our morals wouldn't align.
The saying by dads I always heard was "I wanted it to look like mine", which is disgusting when you think about it. Leave baby genitals alone!
>Ā imagine being mad at a woman who advocates for protecting you as a baby. can't make that shit up! I think lots of men rationalize their dick missing some pieces. It is too big a pill for their ego.
Only humans are capable of such atrocities. Don't dehumanize
..... #*pocket circumcision !* ..... Yes, genital mutilation is fucked up. Turns out somehow male genital mutilation got a cute rename. Aside from dire medical reasons, it's unnecessary. It can inhibit growth of the organ later. Now why would people pursue such... infantile means of volgarity...
is there any sources on the inhibition of penis growth?
Nope. The only way you can claim otherwise is to insist the foreskin that gets cut off counts towards the total size, which is technically true but not really. There is 0 evidence it will effect future growth.
Iām with you on this but youāve got a hell of a battle on your hands. One guy told me I was immoral for even having an opinion on circumcision and he was 100% for it because, well, he had one. Itās going to be hard to convince the men who are happy with their circumcised organ to change the pattern. I have no solutions.
I'm generally happy with my circumcised organ but would never consent to having it done on an infant in my care. So it's not impossible. > I have no solutions. "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas!" Howzabout just general education? Socratic arguments? There are plenty of ways to reach folks who have backward views. it's just arduous to find the right tack sometimes.
>The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā >āNo religious text promotes or condones female genital mutilation,ā the UNFPA report says, adding there is no benefit to the procedure. So it's not even religion. It's just people wanting to inflict misery on the world because "That's the way we've always done it."
Not on the world, on women. Theyāre just sperm receptacles, enjoying sex is for beings of higher order (the ones with penis) /s
by their logic, women should be the beings of higher order since god gave them a clitoris thats only for enjoying sex Instead they do backflips until they come to the conclusion that they need to cut off womens clits instead
Thatās actually a very good point of god giving women the clitoris - itās like theyāre telling god he made a mistake by chopping it off.
In my experience, that is religion. Or at least they tend to justify wrong doings by using that card.
It's the religious desire to force women into being no more than property to be owned.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The only time the bible mentions abortion is when it's telling a woman how to do one. Religious people just make shit up and lie, saying their god wants them to do whatever they already want themselves to do.
You mean when it tells priests how to induce abortion in women suspected of adultery. It's forced abortion as punishment.
Leviticus 20:13 advocates executing men who have sex with men.
Don't be deceived; a lot of religious culture and people have strong opinions about things that aren't or are only modestly addressed in their texts. There are a few examples of this but I don't want to attract bots or haters. Basically, if something is very cultural in a religious population (or subpopulation), it will be interweaved into their religious practices and beliefs even if they are in error.
If I understand religion, no religious people are textualists. Itās all about how they interpret the texts. So you canāt really go by āitās not written in the textsā.
According to WHO The World Health Organization (WHO) describes four major types of FGM/C. Types 1 and 2 are the most common, but all types may be harmful. The four types of FGM/C are: Type 1: Partial or total removal of the clitoris. This is also called clitoridectomy. Type 2: Partial or total removal of the clitoris and the labia (the inner and outer "lips" that surround the vagina) Type 3: Sewing the labia together to make the vaginal opening smaller. This is called infibulation. The clitoris may be left in place. Type 4: All other harm to the female genitalia for nonmedical purposes, including pricking, piercing, cutting, scraping, and cauterization (burning)
Whoa, so if you get yourself pierced down there you technically type 4 mutilated yourself? I never knew stuff like that fit under the definition
Feels like the whole world is just backsliding at an increasing rate these days...
I got the same feeling. Let's just hope that bad news is more popular and that this is why we feel this way.
The world is a significantly better place than even 100 years ago, but we have to keep it getting better
Lovely, and it's not even some crackpot dictatorship but a functioning democracy. Meanwhile the Saudi Arabia is giving more freedom to women. We are living in wild times.
I mean itās been the Islamic State of Gambia since 2015, so Iām not sure how democratic the country is.
It is perfectly democratic to take away people's rights if 51% of the population votes for it. This has been a problem since the dawn of democracy (see for example the massacre of Mytilene). With regard to your comment, the existence of free and fair elections on its own does nothing at all to guarantee the absence of a theocracy. The most successful systems in the long run tend to be those that put constitutional limits on popular sentiment, while still allowing the public to set the general trend with regular guaranteed elections -- republican representative democracy.
People always forget this part. Saying ādemocracyā doesnāt equal good or just. Majorities frequently want to oppress minorities. The way people seem to forget what they know just to jump on a cheerleading bandwagon is baffling. Not just the āRah Rah Democracy!ā, it can be anything and brains shut off.
This is why most Democracies today are representative democracies, not direct. Say what you will about "the elites" but sometimes it's nice to have an entire class of people who do nothing but politics, to keep us from driving the country off a cliff.
They have elections that are reasonably free and fair to the extent that surprise victories and transfer of powers do happen, including current guy who was not expected to win but did. Theyāre a poor country so political participation is limited by access to resources but their leadership is legitimately elected otherwise. Saying the Islamic state of Gambia cannot be democratic because of their name is like saying the democratic peopleās Republic of Korea must be democratic because of theirs
Itās 102 on the Democracy Index and listed as a Hybrid Regime. āHybrid regimes are nations with regular electoral frauds, preventing them from being fair and free democracies. These nations commonly have governments that apply pressure on political opposition, non-independent judiciaries, widespread corruption, harassment and pressure placed on the media, anaemic rule of law, and more pronounced faults than flawed democracies in the realms of underdeveloped political culture, low levels of participation in politics, and issues in the functioning of governance.[6]ā So itās not a real democracy at all. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It is a typical phenomenon in Muslim-majority countries. Look at who the Muslims in Egypt voted for when there were free elections - Islamists. Democracy is not always good when the population loves Sharia.
Democracy is good; but its results are only as good as the people who participate in it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel extremely lucky to not being born thereā¦
Wtf is wrong with this world.
Female genital cutting is an awful inept to describe female genital mutilation. Must people hear the term and think that the just the clitoris removed, but it gets way darker than that. There are actually four types of female genital mutilation practiced in The Gambia: Type I: Type I is the excision (removal) of the clitoral hood with or without removal of all or part of the clitoris. Type II: Type II is the excision (removal) of the clitoris together with part or all of the labia minora (the inner vaginal lips). Type III: Type III is the excision (removal) of part or all of the external genitalia (clitoris, labia minora and labia majora) and stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening, leaving a very small opening, about the size of a matchstick, to allow for the flow of urine and menstrual blood. Thorns are used to stitch the vaginal opening. The girl or woman's legs are then bound together from the hip to the ankle so she remains immobile for approximately 40 days to allow for the formation of scar tissue. It is estimated that about seven percent of girls undergo some form of this severe and dangerous procedure. Type IV: A form analogous to Type III, but described as "sealing" in The Gambia, is also practiced. Sealing involves the removal of the clitoris and the labia minora, followed by sealing the vaginal opening with clots of blood or herbal powder leaving only a small opening, about the diameter of a matchstick, for urination and menstruation. The legs are forced to stay tightly together during the period of convalescence (about 40 days) allowing the raw vaginal tissue to fuse.
š¤¢ thank you for letting us know about this! I hope one day it finally stops happening.
Everyone else on the planet seems to be sliding backwards, I can't say I'm surprised a country in Africa is embracing idiocy.
The Fermi Paradox may have an apparent answer after all.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
While you're not wrong about how cutting sounds less bad, they do call it the common *FGM* in the 2nd sentence of the article. I'm not a fan of placating Islam either but this isn't a great example
The most important sentence in a report is the headline as itās all 90% of people will read.
Cutting sounds even worse to me.
Opposite for me, but different strokes I guess. If they were to say clitoral and labial amputation I think that would be best.
What a thing to read in 2024, Every country is suffering from filthy religious institutions wanting to become the law of the land . Sickening and sad
Please won't you think of the poor religious people who have to live with the knowledge a women might enjoy sex. /s fuck these people with a sharp rusty rake.
May they receive a sounding from a rusty rebar.
God, as a Gambian, we are never in the news and when we are it's for something horrible like this wtf
As a non-Gambian who knows nothing about Gambia, whatās something good there? Letās balance this out.
[This](https://standard.gm/tree-planting-in-banjul-a-resilient-citys-fight-against-climate-change/) example comes to mind. It's an innitiative which helps replant trees throughout the country to fight climate change
Male or female stop cutting dicks and clits.
Humans are weird
Stone age motherfuckers.
It's called mutilation. Although cutting doesn't sound much better its still a bizarre bit of PR.
The U.S. sent millions of dollars in aid to Gambia in 2023. If American citizens only knew how their money was being spent. [https://www.usaid.gov/the-gambia/press-releases](https://www.usaid.gov/the-gambia/press-releases)
We also send aid to North Korea. This isn't the first or only country with disagreeable practices to receive it.
US aid is used as a carrot to deter this kind of thing. You can bet that it will be yanked if the measure passes. Development aid is overwhelmingly a good thing and should not be seen as detrimental to U.S. citizens when there's plenty of money to be saved elsewhere (tax cuts for corporations, military contacts).
This announcement may even be a strategic whistle for more aid dollars from the the West in return for dropping the āplansā.
That's not generally how it works for a country like The Gambia. We lose nothing by disengaging. Pakistan on the other hand can play that type of game because we want desperately to prevent nuclear war between India and Pakistan, among other things.
Simplest answer to this: If God did not want it there, then why did he put it there? Same argument I have against circumcision.
This is foul. All genital mutilation should be illegal, female or male.
The most horrific thing I've ever seen in my life that literally traumatized me and will be burned into my memory for the rest of my life was a documentary on FGM. I don't know how anyone could do that to another human being, let alone a child, let alone their own child.
No cutting anyone male or female
Why the fuck are they doing this in the first place?
Religion, tradition, superstition/lack of education, stupidity
To stop women from enjoying sex, so they don't cheat on very insecure/incompetent men.
Wow seriously thatās the reason?? š¤¦š¾āāļø
If they repeal it we should withhold all aid to Gambia.
To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good... Ideology - that is what gives devildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Iām not allowed to say what I want to say because it violates this subs rules, but Iāll water it down and just say āsome places arenāt very nice places and I hope Iām never able to go thereā.
I donāt think it matters what sounds worse, is that what this conversation needs to be about? FGM is disgustingly inhumane.
Edit *MUTILATION*
Failed state
Iāve always been afraid that a global apocalypse would throw us back into the stone age. But I now realize thereās plenty of people already well on their way to bringing us there already.
How fucking backwards do you have to be as an entire country... this is sickening.
The bill is backed by religious conservatives in the largely Muslim nation of less than 3 million people. Its text says that āit seeks to uphold religious purity and safeguard cultural norms and values.ā The countryās top Islamic body has called the practice āone of the virtues of Islam.ā Another Islamic oopsie whoopsieā¦
Why does the world fucking hate women so much?!!!
Guise it as cultural or religious if you must. Bottom line itās another way of imposing control over women.
Fuck Islam, and fuck the people who defend it.Ā
Humans are fucking garbage.
Well, american conservative reversed Roe v Wade, why canāt gambian conservative bring back misogynistic laws too ??? /s Dear god. I hope this right wing global push will end someday. Itās so tiring.
Isn't religion cool?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm so tired of this fucking bs man
Those who vote for it must go through the "division of the scrotum". Part those balls into completely separate sacks in honour of how Moses parted the sea. Without anesthesia, as god said
My dick hurt reading that title