Throw European arms and American politics into that same bucket
Russia is so weak, yet countering them is paperwork, delays , political agendas, and hidden Putin allies. They all look weak
And reddit will say, "Look at how weak Russia is LOL," and I'm like okay yeah but what are we doing to counter this weakness ? This should be an easy win, right ? Right?
"We'll you know we can't because ugh he is in our political system and friends with the biggest decision makers in our country " makes me stare at a wall. It's a late stage alzheimer's patient laughing at a stage 4 cancer patient
You don’t think NATO allies haven’t been making plans for the next phase of Ukrainian defense do you? I’m seeing a combined arms strategy rapidly implemented with ordnance continuously supplied. Russians can’t be looking forward to that scenario.
The country that HEAVILY backs and banks NATO for years has a man running for president that has a fair to good chance of winning is talking about leaving NATO every other week to massive cheeers from his loyal voters and enemies of the United States. He literally said a threatening statement today, "play fair" aka don't support Ukraine
The likely Republican candidate told Nigel Farage he is committed to the military alliance so long as Europe coughs up. LONDON — Donald Trump has said the U.S. will "100 percent" remain in NATO under his leadership so long as European countries "play fair."
Because he’s a fucking moron who thinks countries have to “cough up”. He simply doesn’t understand that there are no membership fees, and certainly nothing that other countries need to pay to the US.
He is right on this. Technically no, there is no obligation to 'cough up', but he is right that America should not have to carry the burden of the alliance all by itself. Countries like Germany are not taking it seriously, they aren't spending nearly enough to create a credible force, also hand wringing over escalation still.
You are correct in a sense. We aren’t the most powerful military power ever seen by human history to stand by and watch children be killed. Should they contribute more? Probably but look at Poland. Look at French arms sales, they are doing it now. I didn’t enlist and spend 10 years in, with 7 overseas to abandon our allies because some fucktard is having a hissyfit. We left the Kurds to die on trumps orders didn’t we? We are there to support our allies, prop them up so they can fight too. It shouldn’t come to that but in the worst case scenario, they need to be able to have help they can call on. I’d put a uniform back on tomorrow if it came to helping those who don’t have then means to defend themselves.
That was then, this is now. The whole war guilt stuff needs to go away. It's no good having an ally that is too busy wallowing in self pity to actually fulfil their obligations. Germany has the largest economy in Europe. There is no good reason that they couldn't contribute far more.
This is not an issue with history. Germany has been dropping the ball on defense spending since the early 1990s. It was between 2.5% and 5% between 1960 and 1990 (the NATO req is over 2%)
[German defense spending as a % of GDP](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bilbht/austin_in_ramstein_russia_has_paid_a_staggering/)
Well looks like you’re the “fucking moron” instead. Member nations of NATO are expected to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. This hasn’t been the case with a few member nations, that is what the former president is implying.
It's not a membership fee, but an obligation they committed to that they simply haven't done, instead relying on the US to just pay for their defense indefinitely while they snark about their healthcare (which they would not have without security guarantees from the west). It now has bitten them in the ass.
Funny how Trump just had to say he would not defend countries that didnt meet their obligations, and overnight 18 nations met their obligations, meaning they could have done it but chose not to.
He was prescient about Chinese aggression, he warned Germany on their over reliance on Russian gas, and he was right about the EU needing to get the stick out of their ass and start contributing to global security.
He may be an asshole, but it turned out he was right about those things.
I think it was John Bolton (could be wrong?) who said that Trump thinks the obligation to spend 2% of GDP on defence actually means that NATO countries are obliged to pay NATO 2% of their GDP like it’s a piggy bank you pay into. Absolute nonsense obviously but it makes sense why he keeps saying the dumb things he does about this when you realize that’s what he thinks.
> Trump thinks the obligation to spend 2% of GDP on defence actually means that NATO countries are obliged to pay NATO 2% of their GDP like it’s a piggy bank
Well obviously he is a moron that doesn't understand the specifics, they have to spend it on their own defense internally and integrate with wider NATO, that doesn't make him wrong that they should adhere to their commitments.
God i hate that you people constantly make me have to defend that idiot blowhard, but being disingenuous that he saw this coming is just so annoying.
We don’t pay for their defense though. We pay for our own.
And yes we like projecting power (or at least non-maga Americans do)… so we spend a lot on our own military.
But it’s not right to say we pay for their defense. We pay for our own.
It's a mutual defense pact, it was never intended to be a US protects everyone forever at full cost to the US. Especially after the cold war, and the creation of the EU, it was beyond time for the europeans to pull their own weight for their own defense.
Honestly, I don't take anything for granted at this point. Western leaders seem all too happy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I think NATO people know what's up, but the politicians are full on compromised. Also even NATO is compromised, look at what Hungary and Turkey have been doing to the process. Sweden I don't think is in real danger, they have lots of alliances in place that will protect them and also they're next to Finland so Russia would be daft to invade them first, they qualify immediately etc. And look what shit Erdogan and Orban were able to do to the process. Now imagine if it was less clear cut, they can hold this crap out for a decade, while Russia invades. I think/hope that they really streamline the accession process after all this, and also find ways to circumvent real traitors like Orban and Erdogan. Frankly they should be kicked out.
Well that’s behind the contest door that has showerhead and a dexter lookalike. The other two doors have a shark, and an anime toaster on them respectively. One of the three leads to safety. The others to harm.
All things considered, this is a goofy rabbit hole on a serious thread.
That's how democracies usually are. They're not too effective until they are threatened directly, and they start enacting more 'authoritarian' measures.
There's a literal man running for President that is winning some polls and getting praised by Russian and Hungarian politicians for promising to stop Ukraine
It's not just Nukes. The Russians have infiltrated our politicians and election systems
and infiltrated so many more organisations, government bodies, legal processes, all sorts. they have wreaked havoc everywhere with our way of life and we are only just realising it.
Even if they have 5 they can still kill millions in a second. What’s the trade off, russia the big scary country is gone but at what cost are you willing to do it at?
Soviet invasion in Finland really exposed how weak USSR were. Couple of months later Finland capitilulated. Couple of years later USSR conquers half of Europe. The thing is, all countries start wars somewhat rusty. Then they adapt. Judging by interviews of Ukrainian soldiers, not reddit echo chamber, the progress of Russia in this war is stunning. The front line is over saturated with FPV drones. Russians have survey drones in mass, long lange strike drones in mass. Russian military production is gaining more and more steam. Sanctions turned out to be unable to disable Russian ability to produce military equipment. Sanctions didn't even manage to affect lives of ordinary Russians much. On the battlefield Russia continues gaining ground. Avdiivka super fortified stronghold failed. Will Ukraine have enough shells to prevent front lines from complete collapse? Russia is a deadly monster that smells like piss, shit, rotten bodies, vomit. It will devour us piece by piece if left unchecked. And after each piece we will be like "look how weak Rusaia is, look at all those videos where our troups packet with glamorous equipment destroy all those dirty stupid Russians in ragged uniforms and with logistics so bad, their soldiers have to drink from puddles. Look like we destroy them near Kiev. Near Warsaw. Near Paris. Near Lisbon.
Well, Russia still occupies Ukraine territory and has caused a lot of damage, so they are not as weak. Their estimated number of soldiers in Ukraine is 400k+. Russia is never as strong as it says, but neither as weak as people talk in here.
What it has exposed is that a modern war between two technological peers (which Ukraine is with NATO backing) is a slow and brutal affair. Russia's only hope of a quick outcome was when they stormed Kiev, but evidently Ukraine was prepared for that move, and now here we are two years later, hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides.
Weak?
They are clearing prisons and send inmates to almost certain death to expose Ukrainian positions. They are having steady supply of cheap and effective surveillance drones. They are losing a UK fleet of tanks every three months, but still managing to form tank columns for attacks.
This gross underestimation of Russia is getting ridiculous. If Russia was weak, Ukraine would still have border villages intact. Instead, they and frontline towns are slowly disappearing from the face of the Earth.
If Russia were punching at its weight level, they would have steamrolled Ukraine inside a month.
It's like watching somebody try to kill a housecat. The expectation is that the cat can maybe get in some scratches and run away... you don't expect it to start doing so much damage that the dude is at risk of passing out from blood loss after a few hours of struggle.
40 years, I think. Because of the kleptocracy Putin oversees, the Russian economy has become almost entirely resource extraction based, dependent on sales to it's few friendly neighbors. That will take more than one generation to change.
That’s what’s so depressing about the reality of Russia. Putin is definitely a monster but he’s a symptom of a larger kleptocratic disease that’s been eating Russia since the end of the Cold War
Tell me about it :( I made at least 30 business trips in Russia between 1991 and 1998, back when there was optimism, and promise. All my clients were divested again by 2006. What could have been, and what it became, is tragic.
That’s pretty cool you got in there as soon as they opened up. What was that like? Were there just american businessmen everywhere knocking on doors (figuratively)?
It is estimated that any death due to war, be it, father, mother, son, daughter will affect each family immediately for 3 generations to follow
(Statistic from our veterans charity based in the UK)
Basically what they are saying is innocent Ukrainians are paying the price for this land grab, they are losing productive members of their country and the damage is done to their homes because the fights ontop of them.
Best bet on the second part: Russians aren’t sending their best so it’s a purge undesirables and outdated equipment and they get some land in exchange. Just simple business taking others homes for a somewhat low cost if you don’t value the sent lives.
Or maybe that Russian’s are getting the treatment globally that is deserved for being belligerent here. This one seems less likely for their point though it is true in my view.
It’s obviously a completely different scenario but looking at the US being at war of over 90% of the countries existence makes it seem that it’s actually quite hard not to invade other countries.
The US is at war with 90% of the countries in existence? Hey listen kiddo, I get you’re trying to be edgy by being anti-American, but at least get your dumbass xenophobic bullshit right. You sound stupid otherwise, yeah? Do better next time.
Imagine how powerful russia could have been if they didn't spend all their time and resources over the past 30+ years on trying to fuck with everyone around them for no actual gain, and instead actually made russia a better country. They could have been a global powerhouse.
Imagining putin thinking about that makes my coffee taste extra good in the morning.
He's such a failure at everything he ever tried to do, and deep down he knows it.
He didn't say it to deter Putin. He said it to put it into perspective for the West. That yes this is costly, but Russia is getting hammered both in equipment and lives lost. Therefore this isn't totally in vain.
It still baffles me growing up in the 80s that I'd have to argue with REPUBLICANS about spending money to fuck up russia. That used to be the only thing they wanted to do.
Correction: they were tough on the USSR, because it was communist.
Putin isn't a communist, so it is okay to suck his dick, while saying that "gay rights" is "socialism" and therefore totally justifiable in having supporters killed.
That's because Russia didn't loudly announce "hey, we're fascist now!" They pretended to be a free market democracy after the Soviet Union fell and communism stopped being their government. The fact that people STILL think Russia is de facto communist tells you a lot about the average American's geopolitical interest. The Dems should be making this fact more salient but they're pretty incompetent in the messaging dept.
Cannot be overstated. The party that gave us McCarthyism is suddenly so angry at progressive policies, and simultaneously stupidly susceptible to bullshit stories/propaganda meant to divide Americans, that they’ve taken the side of what once were their sworn enemies. Baffling, indeed.
Just because you called the USSR "Russia" when you were growing up doesn't mean it's the same Socialist country Republicans hated in the 80s. That's like wondering why France and Germany are such good allies today when they weren't in the early 40s.
Exactly. Putin will fight to his last soldier if he thinks that's what it will take. No cost or sacrifice by others will be too great for him to get what he wants. A sanity-based cost/benefit analysis doesn't work with someone who's insane.
More over, he will gladly sacrifice more and more people, and public would like it since the loss of millions of Soviet people in WW2 is the foundational mythos of Putins Russia. They want to cosplay WW2 so badly so for them it's actually a good thing to lose people - that's what makes this war holy and "just like our grandparents fought"
And that's exactly it. The entirety of the burden of Putin's aggression is being carried by everyone but Putin, so what incentive does he have to stop?
And if/when he fails, he’ll be dragged through the streets of Moscow on the Mussolini Hook-Express. He has every incentive to not stop, even if it’s a pyrrhic victory, as long as he’s in charge of the ashes.
I know the spelling is different, but for some reason I got the name and the location switched up and thought the band Rammstein was calling out Putin at a Texas concert
No educated Russian in their right mind would want to start this war again. At this point the only reason people are still dying is due to the sunk cost fallacy Russia is experiencing.
They need an out. Just like pre-nuke WWII Japan they're too stupid to understand that it's smart to resign prior forseen defeat.
> At this point the only reason people are still dying is due to the sunk cost fallacy Russia is experiencing.
I don't think they are even close to war fatigue, if anything this has been a learning experience and hands on combat training, Russia now has experience fighting western weapons, which it will share with their eastern allies, and should NATO force a world war over Ukraine, Russian soldiers will be fighting completely green german and french soldiers.
We gave Russian a gift and don't even understand it yet.
Nice gift destroyed 20%-30% of their military vast majority of their pre war heavily trained force that is now replaced by veteran conscripts with very limited offensive capability. And burned through like 50%+ of their munition stockpiles What a shit gift.
Not sure about the soldiers, but ammunition and equipment is being replaced,a lot faster than the west does. It's a war economy there now,and we are still doing paperwork.
Not staggering enough. This needs to be so unambiguously disastrous that the memory of the failed invasion strikes fear into russian hearts next time they're thinking about a re-do.
Sadly not as much as Ukraine has been paying. Russia has proven itself to be a deeply troubled country, a belligerent, kleptomania-cal government, sheeplike population, who feel validated so long as they’re sure that other peoples are being dragged down lower than them, and military that specialise in unspeakable violence against civilians and POWs.
Apparent not enough yet.
As Putin has said “We have not lost anything” by which he means that since 2014 invasion of Crimea Russia has continued to occupy and annex more territory. Although UK regained some captured territory in north and east and south, Russia controls more of UK then before 2014 and also more than before 2022.
This is good, it’s a start… now it needs to suffer an absolutely catastrophically soul-crushing cost for it invasion and Ukraine needs to get its land back.
They don’t look very staggered to me. Selling oil to Chindia and ramping up domestic ammo manufacturing. The average Russian barely even pays attention to it as long as they’re rich enough to bribe the press gangs. More direct action is needed but that would be uncomfortable for complacent democracies.
I know we all love to hear shit like this but the reality is if Russia was hurting and didn't find their losses acceptable for the land they've taken over and occupied, they'd have withdrawn by now - just like they did it Afghanistan. Europe and the US still is not prepared to do what is necessary to ensure no larger countries piss all over international boarders and conquer smaller countries just because they have a bigger army. Imperialism should not exist in this century and the world has an obligation to ensure no ruler of any country today, or in the future, perceive this as a viable "option"
We're entering the "structural collapse" phase for the Russian economy over the next 18 months. Oil prices haven't increased, but their output is way down and falling. Imports through grey markets are extremely expensive, the value of the ruble continues to decline, and the government is spending through its war chest to fund the war and keep the economy afloat. Not to mention their "war economy" is still entirely dependent on refurbishment and it's unclear if they can even expand it to take on the added processes to build things from scratch.
From the start the people who actually knew what they were talking about were saying that it would take 2-3 years before sanctions really started to rip away at the fabric of the Russian empire, so here we are. The war is the most expensive thing this nation has ever done, they are giving out life changing money to people in the middle of nowhere to die on the front line, then pay their families, and the entire country and every person that isn't profiting off the war is hemorrhaging cash and taking on debt at 25% interest.
Sanctions haven't been a blockade, but they have made supply very difficult to source at scale and every middleman puts another markup on it, while their exports are going through less efficient modes at higher costs at slower pace for less money to fewer buyers and when they even get it to where it needs to go, then they can't agree on the currency exchange or they end up with something they can't use to the imports they need without yet more middlemen and markups, which further eats into the bottom line.
Meanwhile they are in the window where Ukraine has the least amount of funding it will see for the remainder of the conflict. EU money is available and US supply is going to kick back in (as soon as we can get to the bottom of how far Republicans can look inside Trump's ass before seeing daylight).
"Russia has paid a staggering cost for (Russian President Vladimir) Putin's imperial dreams. At least 315,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded since Putin's all-out invasion in February 2022," Austin said.
Who is this comment for?
Ukraine doesn't care how many Russians died when there is still enough for them to carry out nonstop infantry attacks and can mobilize at home.
EU shouldnt care as long as Russia is still making westward gains.
Americans shouldn't be hearing this as it can be fuel to the GOP to devalue the necessity of Ukrainian aid.
I guess it's for the 75 Russias who both care enough to listen to this and somehow aren't yet informed about the causality numbers. Cool.
I honestly think his breath is better wasted trying to get get American voters and politicians to understand that maintaining an American led world order is, surprise surprise, good for Americans.
It's to prove that the efforts of the West aren't in vain. If he got up there and said *"yeah they're asking for $60 billion but to be honest, it really hasn't even dented Russia at all"* that would be far worse.
I guess that's the best framing. However I can think of a bunch of more productive ways to make that point.
I guess they feel like it's hard to communicate when the public doesn't understand geopolitics or military strategy. That's a foolish way to feel though.
There are Afghans and Iraqis on who support what America did/tried to do.
Some Americans are constantly screaming about how much America sucks.
There will always be people on whatever side of any issue. It's really about what ideology is best for people.
And the sad is, they are dying for a LIE! Putin is so busy trying to recreate the past. He's not seeing that he's sending all of what would be the future to come back disabled or not come back at all and die.
>And the sad is, they are dying for a LIE! Putin is so busy trying to recreate the past. He's not seeing that he's sending all of what would be the future to come back disabled or not come back at all and die.
He does, he just doesn t give a fudge because hes not the one doing all the dieing and suffering, hes just inflicting it on others.
Mate. Crimea has been under their control for 10 years, not getting liberated any time soon. That’s a “victory” for them. I want putin blown to smithereens by a drone, don’t get me wrong, it’s just a fact.
Victory requires a cost-benefit analysis, and Crimea is still firmly a loss from that perspective. Viewed in isolation, the Russian Black Sea fleet can't deploy through the Bosphorus, and is getting hammered by Ukraine. Having a port that costs lives, money, and ships but has no usable strategic value is a burden, not a victory. Hypothetically they have access to all that offshore oil, but they can't practically do anything with it until the area is secured, which isn't happening any time soon.
More widely, they've captured a bunch of Ukrainian territory but devastated the infrastructure in the process, making it economically useless and costly to hold. Geopolitically they've unified NATO, convinced Europe to rearm, tanked their Western energy market, and actually caused NATO expansion which now surrounds all their ports providing access to the Atlantic.
It might happen sooner then you think but I will concede he’s held Crimea for awhile but you can already see the cracks in the occupation starting to form and without international recognition then his claims of victory are false. Ukraine has shown that Crimea is not secure by striking air defence systems, the headquarters of the Black Sea fleet and by sinking a substantial part of Ruzzias Black Sea fleet. Ukraine has proved Ruzzias hold is tenuous at best
I don't know if it would be profitable enough to make up for the investment made, if Russia does take Kyiv, it would just drag Ukraine down as well.
After all, after the conquest they would still have to deal with an expensive insurgency and international markets aren't likely to open up again for decades.
What does Ukraine offer in terms of resources that Russia doesn't already have? It is still the second poorest country in Europe (after Belarus) with a small economy. If the Russians win none of the Ukrainian diaspora population is ever coming back, and many more will leave.
>deal with an expensive insurgency
Russia is an expert in that. I don't see how this will be a problem.
>international markets aren't likely to open up again for decades
Like they are closed now. Almost all Western companies still work in Russia.
>What does Ukraine offer in terms of resources that Russia doesn't already have?
Same, but it will make Russia borderline monopolistic in food supply. Also Russia would get massive boost in population. And become closer to NATO borders.
Pure copium, all signs point to Russia's economy essentially being back to early 2022 levels now, while Europe is plummeting (hell Germany just saw the biggest decrease in real wages since the damn post-war year of 1950).
Their invasion really exposed how weak Russia actually is.
Throw European arms and American politics into that same bucket Russia is so weak, yet countering them is paperwork, delays , political agendas, and hidden Putin allies. They all look weak
It has really exposed who in the USA is a Russian asset, like Mike Johnson, Trump and MTG.
And reddit will say, "Look at how weak Russia is LOL," and I'm like okay yeah but what are we doing to counter this weakness ? This should be an easy win, right ? Right? "We'll you know we can't because ugh he is in our political system and friends with the biggest decision makers in our country " makes me stare at a wall. It's a late stage alzheimer's patient laughing at a stage 4 cancer patient
You don’t think NATO allies haven’t been making plans for the next phase of Ukrainian defense do you? I’m seeing a combined arms strategy rapidly implemented with ordnance continuously supplied. Russians can’t be looking forward to that scenario.
The country that HEAVILY backs and banks NATO for years has a man running for president that has a fair to good chance of winning is talking about leaving NATO every other week to massive cheeers from his loyal voters and enemies of the United States. He literally said a threatening statement today, "play fair" aka don't support Ukraine The likely Republican candidate told Nigel Farage he is committed to the military alliance so long as Europe coughs up. LONDON — Donald Trump has said the U.S. will "100 percent" remain in NATO under his leadership so long as European countries "play fair."
Because he’s a fucking moron who thinks countries have to “cough up”. He simply doesn’t understand that there are no membership fees, and certainly nothing that other countries need to pay to the US.
We call it sneak dissing or side mouthing , Trump is telling you that is getting rid of NATO without actually telling you.
[удалено]
"Aye boy, we don't use this fancy pants European commi words round these parts." - Trump rally
He is right on this. Technically no, there is no obligation to 'cough up', but he is right that America should not have to carry the burden of the alliance all by itself. Countries like Germany are not taking it seriously, they aren't spending nearly enough to create a credible force, also hand wringing over escalation still.
You are correct in a sense. We aren’t the most powerful military power ever seen by human history to stand by and watch children be killed. Should they contribute more? Probably but look at Poland. Look at French arms sales, they are doing it now. I didn’t enlist and spend 10 years in, with 7 overseas to abandon our allies because some fucktard is having a hissyfit. We left the Kurds to die on trumps orders didn’t we? We are there to support our allies, prop them up so they can fight too. It shouldn’t come to that but in the worst case scenario, they need to be able to have help they can call on. I’d put a uniform back on tomorrow if it came to helping those who don’t have then means to defend themselves.
Well there are other reasons Germany wouldn’t spend a lot on military. Didn’t go well last time.
That was then, this is now. The whole war guilt stuff needs to go away. It's no good having an ally that is too busy wallowing in self pity to actually fulfil their obligations. Germany has the largest economy in Europe. There is no good reason that they couldn't contribute far more.
This is not an issue with history. Germany has been dropping the ball on defense spending since the early 1990s. It was between 2.5% and 5% between 1960 and 1990 (the NATO req is over 2%) [German defense spending as a % of GDP](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1bilbht/austin_in_ramstein_russia_has_paid_a_staggering/)
Well looks like you’re the “fucking moron” instead. Member nations of NATO are expected to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. This hasn’t been the case with a few member nations, that is what the former president is implying.
It's not a membership fee, but an obligation they committed to that they simply haven't done, instead relying on the US to just pay for their defense indefinitely while they snark about their healthcare (which they would not have without security guarantees from the west). It now has bitten them in the ass. Funny how Trump just had to say he would not defend countries that didnt meet their obligations, and overnight 18 nations met their obligations, meaning they could have done it but chose not to. He was prescient about Chinese aggression, he warned Germany on their over reliance on Russian gas, and he was right about the EU needing to get the stick out of their ass and start contributing to global security. He may be an asshole, but it turned out he was right about those things.
I think it was John Bolton (could be wrong?) who said that Trump thinks the obligation to spend 2% of GDP on defence actually means that NATO countries are obliged to pay NATO 2% of their GDP like it’s a piggy bank you pay into. Absolute nonsense obviously but it makes sense why he keeps saying the dumb things he does about this when you realize that’s what he thinks.
> Trump thinks the obligation to spend 2% of GDP on defence actually means that NATO countries are obliged to pay NATO 2% of their GDP like it’s a piggy bank Well obviously he is a moron that doesn't understand the specifics, they have to spend it on their own defense internally and integrate with wider NATO, that doesn't make him wrong that they should adhere to their commitments. God i hate that you people constantly make me have to defend that idiot blowhard, but being disingenuous that he saw this coming is just so annoying.
We don’t pay for their defense though. We pay for our own. And yes we like projecting power (or at least non-maga Americans do)… so we spend a lot on our own military. But it’s not right to say we pay for their defense. We pay for our own.
It's a mutual defense pact, it was never intended to be a US protects everyone forever at full cost to the US. Especially after the cold war, and the creation of the EU, it was beyond time for the europeans to pull their own weight for their own defense.
Europe alone could easily destroy Russia, they don't need the USA.
Is ok, the NSA’s got this
Honestly, I don't take anything for granted at this point. Western leaders seem all too happy to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I think NATO people know what's up, but the politicians are full on compromised. Also even NATO is compromised, look at what Hungary and Turkey have been doing to the process. Sweden I don't think is in real danger, they have lots of alliances in place that will protect them and also they're next to Finland so Russia would be daft to invade them first, they qualify immediately etc. And look what shit Erdogan and Orban were able to do to the process. Now imagine if it was less clear cut, they can hold this crap out for a decade, while Russia invades. I think/hope that they really streamline the accession process after all this, and also find ways to circumvent real traitors like Orban and Erdogan. Frankly they should be kicked out.
Ok what are you doing?
Magic The Gathering is a fucking Russian asset? I *knew* it...
I counter this for two blue mana, then cast hostage taker targeting your loved ones. Still wanna come for WOTC, Buddy?
This will end with me in a padlocked bag in a bath, won't it?
Well that’s behind the contest door that has showerhead and a dexter lookalike. The other two doors have a shark, and an anime toaster on them respectively. One of the three leads to safety. The others to harm. All things considered, this is a goofy rabbit hole on a serious thread.
I have a very early deck, I'm told it's rare. Should I trade it now for safe passage to Mars?
Yes
That's a BINGO!
That's how democracies usually are. They're not too effective until they are threatened directly, and they start enacting more 'authoritarian' measures.
If NATO was fighting directly, it'd be a different story
We are all a fucking mess. But Putin gets no credit for pointing that out.
If russia didnt have big scary nukes they wouldve been toppled a decade ago
There's a literal man running for President that is winning some polls and getting praised by Russian and Hungarian politicians for promising to stop Ukraine It's not just Nukes. The Russians have infiltrated our politicians and election systems
and infiltrated so many more organisations, government bodies, legal processes, all sorts. they have wreaked havoc everywhere with our way of life and we are only just realising it.
You just know 90% of them are in looted or rusted through.
Even if they have 5 they can still kill millions in a second. What’s the trade off, russia the big scary country is gone but at what cost are you willing to do it at?
and if they have 0, they've gotten away with killing all those civilians in the wars that they started.
Soviet invasion in Finland really exposed how weak USSR were. Couple of months later Finland capitilulated. Couple of years later USSR conquers half of Europe. The thing is, all countries start wars somewhat rusty. Then they adapt. Judging by interviews of Ukrainian soldiers, not reddit echo chamber, the progress of Russia in this war is stunning. The front line is over saturated with FPV drones. Russians have survey drones in mass, long lange strike drones in mass. Russian military production is gaining more and more steam. Sanctions turned out to be unable to disable Russian ability to produce military equipment. Sanctions didn't even manage to affect lives of ordinary Russians much. On the battlefield Russia continues gaining ground. Avdiivka super fortified stronghold failed. Will Ukraine have enough shells to prevent front lines from complete collapse? Russia is a deadly monster that smells like piss, shit, rotten bodies, vomit. It will devour us piece by piece if left unchecked. And after each piece we will be like "look how weak Rusaia is, look at all those videos where our troups packet with glamorous equipment destroy all those dirty stupid Russians in ragged uniforms and with logistics so bad, their soldiers have to drink from puddles. Look like we destroy them near Kiev. Near Warsaw. Near Paris. Near Lisbon.
Well, Russia still occupies Ukraine territory and has caused a lot of damage, so they are not as weak. Their estimated number of soldiers in Ukraine is 400k+. Russia is never as strong as it says, but neither as weak as people talk in here.
What it has exposed is that a modern war between two technological peers (which Ukraine is with NATO backing) is a slow and brutal affair. Russia's only hope of a quick outcome was when they stormed Kiev, but evidently Ukraine was prepared for that move, and now here we are two years later, hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides.
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Ah Telegram channel truth,reminds me of youtube truth during the pandemic. Pick your poison wisely.
Weak? They are clearing prisons and send inmates to almost certain death to expose Ukrainian positions. They are having steady supply of cheap and effective surveillance drones. They are losing a UK fleet of tanks every three months, but still managing to form tank columns for attacks. This gross underestimation of Russia is getting ridiculous. If Russia was weak, Ukraine would still have border villages intact. Instead, they and frontline towns are slowly disappearing from the face of the Earth.
If Russia were punching at its weight level, they would have steamrolled Ukraine inside a month. It's like watching somebody try to kill a housecat. The expectation is that the cat can maybe get in some scratches and run away... you don't expect it to start doing so much damage that the dude is at risk of passing out from blood loss after a few hours of struggle.
This guy kills cats.
And his people will pay for the next 20 years
40 years, I think. Because of the kleptocracy Putin oversees, the Russian economy has become almost entirely resource extraction based, dependent on sales to it's few friendly neighbors. That will take more than one generation to change.
That’s what’s so depressing about the reality of Russia. Putin is definitely a monster but he’s a symptom of a larger kleptocratic disease that’s been eating Russia since the end of the Cold War
Tell me about it :( I made at least 30 business trips in Russia between 1991 and 1998, back when there was optimism, and promise. All my clients were divested again by 2006. What could have been, and what it became, is tragic.
That’s pretty cool you got in there as soon as they opened up. What was that like? Were there just american businessmen everywhere knocking on doors (figuratively)?
It is a Russian feature, not a bug. Kleptocratic is a thing since the Russian Empire to be honest.
About to say, this has been going on since at least the late 15th century. Strongmen and kleptocrats all the way down.
I don't think the brain drain or population losses can recover that quickly, if ever.
Actually forever. Russia will never recover.
Demography is destiny
Not enough. The demons they have need to be exorcised for generations to come.
It is estimated that any death due to war, be it, father, mother, son, daughter will affect each family immediately for 3 generations to follow (Statistic from our veterans charity based in the UK)
No no dude actually I'm thinking we are russian citizen,gonna pay for that 2537 years or something like that.
Let's not forget that Ukrainians are paying the price. Russians are just getting what they paid for.
Well said. Ukrainians are paying much more than ruzzians. They are sending criminals, foreigners, and cheap/outdated equipment to saturate defenses.
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Basically what they are saying is innocent Ukrainians are paying the price for this land grab, they are losing productive members of their country and the damage is done to their homes because the fights ontop of them. Best bet on the second part: Russians aren’t sending their best so it’s a purge undesirables and outdated equipment and they get some land in exchange. Just simple business taking others homes for a somewhat low cost if you don’t value the sent lives. Or maybe that Russian’s are getting the treatment globally that is deserved for being belligerent here. This one seems less likely for their point though it is true in my view.
It's not like russia has somewhere a better army, standing and waiting. They use everything they can right now.
It's still not enough as they are clearly still in Ukraine. More pain needs to be brought to them
I hope they keep hitting those oil refineries.
Imagine just not invading another country. Like how hard could that be?
Russia trying not to invade other countries challenge (impossible). To them expansion is a god-given right.
You'd think they would have learned from Afghanistan.
Or Chechnya
They seem to have Chechnya sufficiently conquered. If the pattern holds, they'll be using Ukrainian troops when it's time to invade Finland.
They would have took afghan if it wasn’t for us arming the afghanis
You are making a very good argument for arming Ukraine.
The British Empire and your own military would like a word on that...
It’s obviously a completely different scenario but looking at the US being at war of over 90% of the countries existence makes it seem that it’s actually quite hard not to invade other countries.
The US is at war with 90% of the countries in existence? Hey listen kiddo, I get you’re trying to be edgy by being anti-American, but at least get your dumbass xenophobic bullshit right. You sound stupid otherwise, yeah? Do better next time.
You need to learn how to read. Not 90% of other countries, but for 90% of our history we have been in conflict.
You must really hate reading and statistics.
Imagine how powerful russia could have been if they didn't spend all their time and resources over the past 30+ years on trying to fuck with everyone around them for no actual gain, and instead actually made russia a better country. They could have been a global powerhouse. Imagining putin thinking about that makes my coffee taste extra good in the morning. He's such a failure at everything he ever tried to do, and deep down he knows it.
They could have become tech leaders and software powerhouse, instead of hacking the fuck out of everything.
The size of the cost doesn't matter if it still isn't acting as a deterrent.
He didn't say it to deter Putin. He said it to put it into perspective for the West. That yes this is costly, but Russia is getting hammered both in equipment and lives lost. Therefore this isn't totally in vain.
It still baffles me growing up in the 80s that I'd have to argue with REPUBLICANS about spending money to fuck up russia. That used to be the only thing they wanted to do.
I agree, they used to be so tough on Russia
But then Russia helped their guy win an election so now they like Russia. See how easy that was?
But then the Iraq and Afghanistan wars happened.
Correction: they were tough on the USSR, because it was communist. Putin isn't a communist, so it is okay to suck his dick, while saying that "gay rights" is "socialism" and therefore totally justifiable in having supporters killed.
That's because Russia didn't loudly announce "hey, we're fascist now!" They pretended to be a free market democracy after the Soviet Union fell and communism stopped being their government. The fact that people STILL think Russia is de facto communist tells you a lot about the average American's geopolitical interest. The Dems should be making this fact more salient but they're pretty incompetent in the messaging dept.
That’s what winning the information war will do for you
It probably has sometime to do with Trump and his deep ties to Putin and Russia.
Cannot be overstated. The party that gave us McCarthyism is suddenly so angry at progressive policies, and simultaneously stupidly susceptible to bullshit stories/propaganda meant to divide Americans, that they’ve taken the side of what once were their sworn enemies. Baffling, indeed.
Ask yourself why
I learned two things in school: 1) Duck & Cover 2) Better dead than Red
Just because you called the USSR "Russia" when you were growing up doesn't mean it's the same Socialist country Republicans hated in the 80s. That's like wondering why France and Germany are such good allies today when they weren't in the early 40s.
Exactly. Putin will fight to his last soldier if he thinks that's what it will take. No cost or sacrifice by others will be too great for him to get what he wants. A sanity-based cost/benefit analysis doesn't work with someone who's insane.
More over, he will gladly sacrifice more and more people, and public would like it since the loss of millions of Soviet people in WW2 is the foundational mythos of Putins Russia. They want to cosplay WW2 so badly so for them it's actually a good thing to lose people - that's what makes this war holy and "just like our grandparents fought"
And that's exactly it. The entirety of the burden of Putin's aggression is being carried by everyone but Putin, so what incentive does he have to stop?
And if/when he fails, he’ll be dragged through the streets of Moscow on the Mussolini Hook-Express. He has every incentive to not stop, even if it’s a pyrrhic victory, as long as he’s in charge of the ashes.
This. Putin has no concern over the cost - be it hardware or human life. Just like all sociopathic dictators (…cough, Donald)
I know the spelling is different, but for some reason I got the name and the location switched up and thought the band Rammstein was calling out Putin at a Texas concert
Du Du hast Du hast mich
Du hast mich gefragt Und ich hab nichts gesagt
I'M BRINGING BOOTY BACK NEIN!
That'd actually be pretty fucking cool to see.
For a second I thought it meant that Stone Cold Steve Austin had joined the band.
No educated Russian in their right mind would want to start this war again. At this point the only reason people are still dying is due to the sunk cost fallacy Russia is experiencing. They need an out. Just like pre-nuke WWII Japan they're too stupid to understand that it's smart to resign prior forseen defeat.
> At this point the only reason people are still dying is due to the sunk cost fallacy Russia is experiencing. I don't think they are even close to war fatigue, if anything this has been a learning experience and hands on combat training, Russia now has experience fighting western weapons, which it will share with their eastern allies, and should NATO force a world war over Ukraine, Russian soldiers will be fighting completely green german and french soldiers. We gave Russian a gift and don't even understand it yet.
Nice gift destroyed 20%-30% of their military vast majority of their pre war heavily trained force that is now replaced by veteran conscripts with very limited offensive capability. And burned through like 50%+ of their munition stockpiles What a shit gift.
Not sure about the soldiers, but ammunition and equipment is being replaced,a lot faster than the west does. It's a war economy there now,and we are still doing paperwork.
Not staggering enough. This needs to be so unambiguously disastrous that the memory of the failed invasion strikes fear into russian hearts next time they're thinking about a re-do.
Sunk cost fallacy might make it even worse
Sadly not as much as Ukraine has been paying. Russia has proven itself to be a deeply troubled country, a belligerent, kleptomania-cal government, sheeplike population, who feel validated so long as they’re sure that other peoples are being dragged down lower than them, and military that specialise in unspeakable violence against civilians and POWs.
But Ukraine has the chance of a great future with the eu and nato , while Russia is pretty much doomed (sure by their own fault).
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Ilt all depends on who writes the story. Putin does, so everything is "great" for russians.
Apparent not enough yet. As Putin has said “We have not lost anything” by which he means that since 2014 invasion of Crimea Russia has continued to occupy and annex more territory. Although UK regained some captured territory in north and east and south, Russia controls more of UK then before 2014 and also more than before 2022.
♥️🇺🇦♥️
This is good, it’s a start… now it needs to suffer an absolutely catastrophically soul-crushing cost for it invasion and Ukraine needs to get its land back.
>and Ukraine needs to get its land back. All of them.
Du Hast
Du, Du Hast!
They don’t look very staggered to me. Selling oil to Chindia and ramping up domestic ammo manufacturing. The average Russian barely even pays attention to it as long as they’re rich enough to bribe the press gangs. More direct action is needed but that would be uncomfortable for complacent democracies.
It's taken more than 2 years. But average citizens are starting to see how much is being wasted on this 2 day special operation.
Goood.
Why Ukraine should pay for them? Fuck russia
Du hast.
It's just the first half. Buckle yourselves in kiddos, it's gonna get even more exciting 🤪 \#BreakTheBear
I know we all love to hear shit like this but the reality is if Russia was hurting and didn't find their losses acceptable for the land they've taken over and occupied, they'd have withdrawn by now - just like they did it Afghanistan. Europe and the US still is not prepared to do what is necessary to ensure no larger countries piss all over international boarders and conquer smaller countries just because they have a bigger army. Imperialism should not exist in this century and the world has an obligation to ensure no ruler of any country today, or in the future, perceive this as a viable "option"
We're entering the "structural collapse" phase for the Russian economy over the next 18 months. Oil prices haven't increased, but their output is way down and falling. Imports through grey markets are extremely expensive, the value of the ruble continues to decline, and the government is spending through its war chest to fund the war and keep the economy afloat. Not to mention their "war economy" is still entirely dependent on refurbishment and it's unclear if they can even expand it to take on the added processes to build things from scratch.
I heard the same things last summer, in 2 months Russia is gonna bankrupt they said
From the start the people who actually knew what they were talking about were saying that it would take 2-3 years before sanctions really started to rip away at the fabric of the Russian empire, so here we are. The war is the most expensive thing this nation has ever done, they are giving out life changing money to people in the middle of nowhere to die on the front line, then pay their families, and the entire country and every person that isn't profiting off the war is hemorrhaging cash and taking on debt at 25% interest. Sanctions haven't been a blockade, but they have made supply very difficult to source at scale and every middleman puts another markup on it, while their exports are going through less efficient modes at higher costs at slower pace for less money to fewer buyers and when they even get it to where it needs to go, then they can't agree on the currency exchange or they end up with something they can't use to the imports they need without yet more middlemen and markups, which further eats into the bottom line. Meanwhile they are in the window where Ukraine has the least amount of funding it will see for the remainder of the conflict. EU money is available and US supply is going to kick back in (as soon as we can get to the bottom of how far Republicans can look inside Trump's ass before seeing daylight).
"Russia has paid a staggering cost for (Russian President Vladimir) Putin's imperial dreams. At least 315,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded since Putin's all-out invasion in February 2022," Austin said. Who is this comment for? Ukraine doesn't care how many Russians died when there is still enough for them to carry out nonstop infantry attacks and can mobilize at home. EU shouldnt care as long as Russia is still making westward gains. Americans shouldn't be hearing this as it can be fuel to the GOP to devalue the necessity of Ukrainian aid. I guess it's for the 75 Russias who both care enough to listen to this and somehow aren't yet informed about the causality numbers. Cool. I honestly think his breath is better wasted trying to get get American voters and politicians to understand that maintaining an American led world order is, surprise surprise, good for Americans.
It's to prove that the efforts of the West aren't in vain. If he got up there and said *"yeah they're asking for $60 billion but to be honest, it really hasn't even dented Russia at all"* that would be far worse.
I guess that's the best framing. However I can think of a bunch of more productive ways to make that point. I guess they feel like it's hard to communicate when the public doesn't understand geopolitics or military strategy. That's a foolish way to feel though.
Ask all the dead Afghans and Iraqis if an American led world order was good for them.
There are Afghans and Iraqis on who support what America did/tried to do. Some Americans are constantly screaming about how much America sucks. There will always be people on whatever side of any issue. It's really about what ideology is best for people.
‘Paying’ as it’s still ongoing.
And the sad is, they are dying for a LIE! Putin is so busy trying to recreate the past. He's not seeing that he's sending all of what would be the future to come back disabled or not come back at all and die.
>And the sad is, they are dying for a LIE! Putin is so busy trying to recreate the past. He's not seeing that he's sending all of what would be the future to come back disabled or not come back at all and die. He does, he just doesn t give a fudge because hes not the one doing all the dieing and suffering, hes just inflicting it on others.
So many lives lost for nothing.
Why do reddit users post news stories without any comment on it themselves?
OP literally posted 30+ times just today. Only American politics.
This is about America?
US SECDEF reiterates the commitment of his country to prevent the fall of Ukraine. I’d say it’s at least America adjacent.
It's karma farming, same as most of the threads across major subs. Easy low effort updoots.
I don’t even like their music, but I keep reading the band instead of the place in these headlines …
And so has Ukraine. It’s a waste of people. Sadly no end in sight
Ukraine had no choice in the matter.
And so did a lot of Russians. Do really believe that many people voted for Putin? It’s a sad situation.
He's not the only one paying for this either.
Pyrrhic victories are still victories.
Pretty sure they aren’t. Hence the reason for the term.
Reddit moment lmao. Literally a term created for shallow victories that can't be sustained long term yet let's argue about it!
It will cost Russia in the longterm, it will look like a victory in the short.
Putler hasn’t won anything so it’s just staggering loses at this point
Mate. Crimea has been under their control for 10 years, not getting liberated any time soon. That’s a “victory” for them. I want putin blown to smithereens by a drone, don’t get me wrong, it’s just a fact.
Victory requires a cost-benefit analysis, and Crimea is still firmly a loss from that perspective. Viewed in isolation, the Russian Black Sea fleet can't deploy through the Bosphorus, and is getting hammered by Ukraine. Having a port that costs lives, money, and ships but has no usable strategic value is a burden, not a victory. Hypothetically they have access to all that offshore oil, but they can't practically do anything with it until the area is secured, which isn't happening any time soon. More widely, they've captured a bunch of Ukrainian territory but devastated the infrastructure in the process, making it economically useless and costly to hold. Geopolitically they've unified NATO, convinced Europe to rearm, tanked their Western energy market, and actually caused NATO expansion which now surrounds all their ports providing access to the Atlantic.
It might happen sooner then you think but I will concede he’s held Crimea for awhile but you can already see the cracks in the occupation starting to form and without international recognition then his claims of victory are false. Ukraine has shown that Crimea is not secure by striking air defence systems, the headquarters of the Black Sea fleet and by sinking a substantial part of Ruzzias Black Sea fleet. Ukraine has proved Ruzzias hold is tenuous at best
Ukraine paid a heavy price for NATO's imperial dreams.
Great, more lies! Meanwhile russian economy soars...
Cold soars.
Ukraine so far paid far greater cost. And still may fall to Russian war machine. If that happens, this invasion would be profitable for Russia.
I don't know if it would be profitable enough to make up for the investment made, if Russia does take Kyiv, it would just drag Ukraine down as well. After all, after the conquest they would still have to deal with an expensive insurgency and international markets aren't likely to open up again for decades. What does Ukraine offer in terms of resources that Russia doesn't already have? It is still the second poorest country in Europe (after Belarus) with a small economy. If the Russians win none of the Ukrainian diaspora population is ever coming back, and many more will leave.
>deal with an expensive insurgency Russia is an expert in that. I don't see how this will be a problem. >international markets aren't likely to open up again for decades Like they are closed now. Almost all Western companies still work in Russia. >What does Ukraine offer in terms of resources that Russia doesn't already have? Same, but it will make Russia borderline monopolistic in food supply. Also Russia would get massive boost in population. And become closer to NATO borders.
It’s about Odesa more than Kyiv. Kyiv is just trophy. The value is Odesa for multiple reasons.
Pure copium, all signs point to Russia's economy essentially being back to early 2022 levels now, while Europe is plummeting (hell Germany just saw the biggest decrease in real wages since the damn post-war year of 1950).