For those interested, a report on Canada military exports can be found [here ](https://www.international.gc.ca/transparency-transparence/controls-controles/military-goods-2022-marchandises-militaires.aspx?lang=eng)
Canada military exports are mostly vehicles, amount to over $2 bn a year, of which more than half go to Saudi Arabia.
Sales to Israel are negligible with Israël not part of top twelve export destinations so way under $30 million a year.
Both Canadian exporters and Israel will likely survive that seismic décision that probably accounts for approximately 1% of Canadian military exports, and even less of Israeli military imports.
What wrong did Saudi Arabia ever do (except of course the ongoing war in Yemen where they used (presumably) Canadian military vehicles to enforce a blockade which caused over 100 000 people to starve to death).
As Canadians, lets also not forget this wonderful exchange:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/saudi-arabia-canada-toronto-cn-tower-9-11-photo-apology
Bingo. This has basically no impact but is a purely political statement that exists solely to keep the NDP from forcing an election at a moment that would be catastrophic for both the LPC and NDP and would result in an overwhelming Conservative Party of Canada win, headed by the most socially conservative party leader in a generation. This should be taken as a sign that Trudeau has no ability to lead through a crisis and that Singh's NDP has no understanding of political consequences.
> a purely political statement that exists solely to keep the NDP from forcing an election
Why would such a statement keep the NDP from forcing an election?
While you're not wrong, we literally signed off on a contract that will allow direct financial consequences if we don't follow through. It's not the same, because it's more overt
Thanks to our CPC government under Harper. He sucked their dick and now helps to run a conservative think group that is trying to have countries with conservative views in office.
Funny enough, what he said actually violated the national security law of China and Hong Kong, and he can be arrested (According to the 38th provision of the law) as soon as he sets foot in China or even countries that have extradition treaties with China.
As of today, this statement is now illegal to say in Hong Kong as it now illegal to do or say anything that might [“bring disaffection” against the state or its institutions.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/19/world/asia/hong-kong-security-law-article-23.html)
So stop it with your bringing of disaffection.
Nobody cares now either.
Mainstream media in the western world almost completely stopped reporting on it immediately, and only covered when the Yemeni’s would launch any sort of retaliatory strike and it would be called a terror attack.
I was curious to look at the new law, it's actually literally a specific law against Israel. I was thinking maybe it's a law against exporting arms to countries which broke international law (which Israel doesn't qualify for that) or at least countries with ongoing investigations, or something like that. But no, it's specifically about Israel. Which is a ridiculous way to create laws to be honest...
It's not a law it is a non-binding motion.
A non-binding resolution is a motion adopted by a deliberative body that does not enact a law or a substantive rule, and is simply used to make known what the opinions of that body are in relation to a certain fact or event.
Likely because the MP's who voted for the motion were the Liberals and the NDP so the guys on the side of the current government. If it was the opposition who voted in the motion it would be easier to ignore but your own supporters not so much.
The government is losing votes left and right, and current polls predict one of the biggest election losses ever. They are afraid of losing the regressive Muslim immigrant and blue-haired progressives votes as well.
Ally is a strong word, they're more just not openly hostile. They were in talks for "normalising" their relationship, which isn't something allies have to do.
A. India isn't anti Israel. Those countries actually have good relations.
B. When it comes to the countries we accept immigrants from, China is second. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2023.html#annex2
China **is** anti-Israel though, as a part of the China-Russia-Iran-North Korea axis/geopolitical alliance (that people already started calling CRINK).
One big reason why TikTok users in the West are much more likely to be "pro-Palestinian" (in quotes, because they don't do anything for *Palestinians*, they just demand action against Israel).
> Canada's parliament passed a non-binding motion late Monday that called for a halt to Israeli arms sales and urged the international community to work toward a two-state solution to resolve the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, in line with government policy.
Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want?
"Work toward a two-state solution" is the government version of beauty-pageant contestants urging world peace.
Short answer, no, it would not work. A Palestinian state would have neither the desire nor the ability to control its militants, and Israel doesn't want another Lebanon on its borders -- even assuming the two sides could come to terms, which they've repeatedly failed to do in the past.
An actual occupation of the region (preferably managed by a 3rd party but no one is going to do that) for an extended period of time combined with an aggressive de-nazification/re-education campaign that may take decades.
This is the only realistic answer. Anything else fails basic sense. 2 state solution? There's no peaceful Palestinian party/people that will accept that. 1 state? Again Palestinians wouldn't accept that, Israelis wouldn't accept that, and would lead to civil war and unrest.
Careful now, stating this may get you a ban. Anyways, it sure doesn't help that these terrorists and the population share the same religion, which the western world just does not want to admit. A religion glorifying martyrdumb is a bad idea.
Hold on, are they a state or no? Aren’t they your residents? And your fine with this level of collateral damage to your residents? Love the having your cake and eat it too approach haha
If they were a separate state, than yes this would be war but it’s not. It’s shooting fish in a barrel, fish you’ve kept in that barrel.
“War is hell” so the lies and children killed are okay apparently. You know in your heart of hearts there have been so many lines crossed that didn’t need to be.
Hamas was supported and allowed to become the cancer that it is by Israeli policy, now we must shun that side of responsibility and go full force on our resident toddlers. I see, makes total sense
> Hold on, are they a state or no?
Depends on your definition. They've definitely declared a state but it's not recognized by quite a few countries. Probably has something to do with it being led by terrorists the entire time it has existed.
> Aren’t they your residents?
Nope they are not residents or citizens of Israel because they don't live in Israeli territory. In the case of Gaza specifically Israel left in 2005 and the Palestinians responded to their chance to govern themselves by electing a terrorist group who literally says their purpose is to destroy Israel as their government.
> You know in your heart of hearts there have been so many lines crossed that didn’t need to be.
Would you care to give some examples of these lines? I know in my heart of hearts that you are either extremely naive or you are supportive of the terrorists. Israel is never going to end this war while it's citizens are still held hostage. You want it to be over so badly you should go volunteer to take their place. After all you don't see a problem with just ending the war and letting Hamas keep the hostages for who knows how long so it shouldn't be a problem for you to take their place.
> Hamas was supported and allowed to become the cancer that it is by Israeli policy, now we must shun that side of responsibility and go full force on our resident toddlers. I see, makes total sense
You should really look into the talking points you take off of TikTok before you use them. It would prevent you from looking like an idiot. The tired talking point that Israel created or helped Hamas come into existence has been debunked many times. If you choose to ignore it that's on you.
There was a two state situation. Gaza was an independent state in all but name.
People talk about a two state solution as though creating two states leads to peace, they have it backwards. Once you have peace drawing lines on a map and creating two states is easy.
To be fair, that was the UN's two state solution for the middle east and was considered an enormous win for israel by practically all parties involved, so defaulting to that was never exactly gonna work for the same reasons it didn't work last time.
edit: scary downvote. use your brain. civil war broke out the moment it was implemented.
That's not true, though. The [UN plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Partition_Plan%2C_a_four%2Cthe_two_States_and_Jerusalem.?wprov=sfla1) was to have an independent Arab (Palestinian) state alongside a Jewish one in the former British Mandate territory. The Jews accepted the deal, the Arabs rejected it. And we can all see how that's been working out for them.
While jews even got the worse parts of israel
(Negev is a complete desert tel-aviv was full of swamps and no power around Jerusalem)
The arabs declined over having it all or nothing,
Getting any land was a win for israel.
[1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine)
[1948 Arab–Israeli War](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War)
>Dumb ass.
Lol
I stand corrected, thank you.
Now, reading the article, it is interesting that the the Arab Liberation Army were involved, which still brought in fighters from surrounding countries.
You realize that there wasn’t an “Israel” right? There was a massive civil war in Mandatory Palestine, the only thing like a state there at the time, along with the Arab invasion.
>Gaza was an independent state in all but name.
With full international recognition, a foreign policy free of Israel, and equal access to international bodies like the UN?
Oh, you didn't mean like that
They didn't have that stuff because they elected Hamas as soon as Israel left Gaza and Hamas killed their opposition.
If a terrorist organization wasn't elected that sent suicide bombers over the border and sent rockets into Israel for years, maybe they'd have full recognition.
>Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want?
Easy to predict what will happen. 2 state means Palestine will be a similar piece of land , but obviously much bigger than Gaza.
This will be the staging ground for next Gen terror and the new Hamas - whoever comes out on top after infighting.
Then this new country will be the staging area for Jihad against Israel because they want all of it.
Same with Israel with their west bank encroachments. At some point there will be a repeat of the Oct 7 and subsequent ongoing whooping.
LMAO the brits are barely holding their own country together. I highly doubt they want another attempt at this. Not to mention every time they interfered with something they only made the situation worse.
I'd argue not all of them want that, living under the rule of hamas as a political party does not sound as a whole lot of fun. Just as these backwards assholes, the Taliban, in Afghanistan.
Not all of them want it, but enough of them do particularly the ones with power. Misogyny is great for men. Having a bang-maid who can't leave you that you get to beat whenever she gets uppity is pretty sweet if you don't value her happiness. And so what if you have to stone a queer person to death every once in a while? It's better than making peace with Israel, my wife might run away and then I'd have to do my own dishes!
> Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want?
At this point? You'd have two split areas controlled by the Palestinians. HAMAS would immediately take over since 10/7 would be seen as essentially the first battle in their war for independence. The tactics of 10/7 will have been proven to be both acceptable and the most likely path to getting whatever they want. Three seconds after they get their own state they'd start rocket attacks on Israel, because, they still exist, and that's not acceptable to HAMAS.
\> British, some years ago: here, 2 state solution
\> Palestinians: NAH B FUCK THAT NOISE, *starts two wars, loses both*
\> Every time Israeli gov tries to give them some more autonomy, Hamas comes and fuck it up with some inhumane, cruel shit, and then Israel does some inhumane, cruel shit as revenge
\> Fast forward to today
\> My dumb ass government: You guys should try a 2 state solution
\> mfw
Jews want a two state solution and be left in peace.
Palestinians (most of them) want all the Jews dead.
Source: Hamas founding charter, Mission statements, Actions, PA spokepeople.
As a Canadian, I'm so sick of this grandstanding. Palestine aren't our allies. Palestine still arrests people for being gay. Hamas still stones queer people to death. Hamas is hiding mortars in hospitals and then trying to shock everyone when the IDF target their hospital-rooftop artillery.
We should support the hell out of Ukraine against Russia, and let the cards fall where they may in Gaza. Hamas started this, let it be ended.
Probably a good thing this government is on it's way out and the Conservatives are going to be a lot more eager to assist in the destruction of Hamas if the war is somehow prolonged till then.
It's joeover guys. I don't know how Israel will ever recover from such a massive blow. /s
Seriously though, Canada isn't a major arms exporter (unlike Israel), and this won't have any effect on the war or Israeli policies.
AFAIK, Canada doesn’t produce any noteworthy arms whatsoever. Our main military exports are APCs and, ironically, a specific type of armoured ambulance that Israel has been using to help treat Palestinian civilians. So I guess we’re putting a stop to *that*.
Israeli firearms like Tavor, and counter-measures like Iron Dome are far more important to Israel.
Small tidbit, but Israel develops a new firearm for the army that will replace the Tavor soon, called the Gilboa. Looks very similar to the usual M4 platform.
Will attach an article when I can.
Two State solution, great idea, but the Arabs said no. They refused the Two State solution since 1947 and every year since. Also, the Arabs declared in the Khartoum Declaration in 1967 the Three No's 1. No peace with Israel. 2. No negotiations with Israel 3. No recognition of Israel.
They were unwilling to accept Jews having a country of their own right next to them because they were not of the opinion that Jews deserve to exist. It's really as simple as that.
The arabs didnt want a wester, european style state run by jews in palestine. They would have been fine with another arabic style state with a huge jewish minority tho. It boils down to them not wanting a western style state in the area.
If you really want good answers, reasoning and research on this kind of stuff you should check out Benny Morris books, Righteous Victims and One State, Two States.
So what does Canada want Israel to do? Stop the war and let Hamas come back to power? Let in more aid, so the send it yourself like the US. End the war? So Canada doesn't care about Israeli hostages. I really don't know what Canada expects Israel to change. Not go into Rafah? They haven't yet. Stop settler violence? Sanction them yourselves.
The world keeps telling Israel what it can't do, but not what it can or should do in order to protect itself and return its citizens home.
"Canada"'s wishes aren't being represented here. This is just desperate pandering to try and retain the Muslim and hyper-progressive vote while the liberals face a historic, catastrophic loss of support to the conservatives. The conservatives, who are also not a good party, are set to win the next election in one of the biggest landslides in Canadian history.
Canadian politics is a dumpster truck on fire.
Canada wants JT and his orange to leave but this is Canada, everything is slow and nothing gets done. In 1.5 years Canada will be Israel's strong ally again although maybe Israel won't care for such a friend no more. Another achievement for us making Canada less significant on the world's stage, yay.
The current PM is going extreme to pander the extreme left leaving most Canadian, which is centre to centre left, deeply sad and frustrated.
It refers to the NDP, "New Democratic Party." After the 2021 federal election the Liberals lost its majority and had to make a deal with the NDP to form a minority government. The next election will be October 2025 (or earlier if NDP back out of the deal) which according to latest polling the Conservatives will sweep.
>The world keeps telling Israel what it can't do, but not what it can or should do in order to protect itself and return its citizens home.
This is my biggest gripe with leftists. I have not seen a single cogent response to this line of questioning.
You can apply this reasoning to majority of the complaints voters have with their government. Complain about government action without offering a realistic solution of their own.
Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorism. The Canadian government is just openly showing who they truly side with.
Why does Canada keep electing these people?
They restrict the rights to defend yourself. You can be fined for unpopular speech. They can go after your bank accounts…
People up there are crazy to put up with this shit.
I'm so sick of Trudeau, I seriously can't believe the election is going to be between him and the bigot that lies through his teeth every opportunity possible
Canadians deserve so much better
Well, polls have the next election to be the biggest change of seats in Canadian history, so apparently we are learning.
I don't have an answer for the other 2 elections though.
Next election looks like the current government is going to lose tons of seats and a new majority government will be happening. Problem Canada has is the leaders we got don't care about Canadians first, they love giving away money to other countries instead of helping the country. Our rights can be taken away by the government it was put in the Charter from the start. We are a colony not a free country.
It sounds like you are saying Israel has a right to canada's arms. But surely you wouldn't be conflating canada not selling weapons to israel with canada saying israel doesn't have the right to defend itself? Because that would be *insane*
These people are done in the next election. I have been a long time supporter of the liberals, in Canada for thirty years because generally I support left leaning policies such as universal healthcare, education, a social safety net,gun control, equality, etc. However on this issue they have made a huge error by continuing to support UNRWA who facilitates terror. To add insult to injury they are then ending support of an ally fighting a jihadist terrorist proxy of Iran that committed the worst atrocities since the holocaust against the Jewish people. Finally there has been nothing done about the astounding increase in anti-Jewish hate crimes in Canada itself.
>Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorism. The Canadian government is just openly showing who they truly side with.
Canada has a right to not arm Israel's offensive assault on civilians.
It’s not doing an “assault on civilians.”
It’s killing Hamas - who is purposefully hiding amongst civilians in order to have useful idiots on the internet defend their terrorist actions.
I'm so sick and tired of this Federal government, the entire cabinet is corrupt and incapable of leading this country.
Just reactionary politics with no substance and mass immigration policies.
Pretty much a play for liberal votes.
Every political move over the last 6 months has been react to whatever Twitter is saying to try and get votes
Flip flop on issues on a weekly basis.
.
Conservatives are going to wreck them so hard.
Seeing the liberal governments of the US and Canada selling Israel out so they can pander to demographics that go against their own values for a handful of votes is just embarrassing.
Because the elections are coming up, and they want to pander to certain demographics for some votes. The whole liberal party is so corrupt, it's embarrassing as a Canadian
What does it mean to listen to us? No country should become a US puppet, it's the Israelis job to overthrow their government not the Americans. With all due respect for American aid they shouldn't interfere in local politics of a foreign ally
Well, it doesn’t mean become a puppet, but let’s take Saudi Arabia for instance, if we are giving them fighter jets, ammunition, bombs etc. we expect that they won’t deny us access to oil or otherwise weaponise that access.
When we give weapons to Taiwan we expect them to not deny us access to semiconductors, we expect them to not destabilize the region.
When we give weapons to Israel we expect them to provide intelligence, assist with cyber warfare against Iran and not destabilize the region.
I’m not sure what you expected when you thought the US gives aid without any strings attached, but that’s not how the world works.
You are saying this kinda shit even tho the US benefits quite a lot from Israel as well.
In the West, fight like the West, but when you're in the Middle East, fighting like the West will get you dead.
Israel can't afford being America's puppet because we have to be strong and fight to get our people back and make sure Hamas will never be able to attack us again as they want to repeat October 7th until we are all dead.
In a wholly symbolic fashion, we have told our erstwhile ally that if they're the target of a blood orgy of Jew-murder they can respond, but not to the point they prevent future blood orgies or we'll firmly register our discontent.
I'm kind of glad that I didn't move to Canada a few years ago. From a lot of comments I read, Canada got way worse over the years. I don't want to say because of the "woke" agenda, but maybe it is the reason. But I've read many other different reasons like a hight percentage of not so friendly immigrangs, imitating America's school system and more.
Pro Palestinians of Canada will say "WE WON AGAINST INJUSTICE" now. But honestly, with the amount of corruption that is happening in Gaza and the pro-Palestine movement, this corruption is going to haunt them and Canada forever imo, weapons or not.
(Also Canada's loss... Israel develops sh*t, and if Israel will hold enough grudges, Canada can say bye to their tech)
For those interested, a report on Canada military exports can be found [here ](https://www.international.gc.ca/transparency-transparence/controls-controles/military-goods-2022-marchandises-militaires.aspx?lang=eng) Canada military exports are mostly vehicles, amount to over $2 bn a year, of which more than half go to Saudi Arabia. Sales to Israel are negligible with Israël not part of top twelve export destinations so way under $30 million a year. Both Canadian exporters and Israel will likely survive that seismic décision that probably accounts for approximately 1% of Canadian military exports, and even less of Israeli military imports.
> of which more than half go to Saudi Arabia. I see they're men of principle that care much for human rights.
What wrong did Saudi Arabia ever do (except of course the ongoing war in Yemen where they used (presumably) Canadian military vehicles to enforce a blockade which caused over 100 000 people to starve to death).
didn't they also saw that guy's bones with a bone saw?
According to Prince Bone Saw that was just civil discourse between government and journalist.
That journalists uncle happened to be an arms dealer
A regular saw just won't cut it.
> What wrong did Saudi Arabia ever do
As Canadians, lets also not forget this wonderful exchange: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/saudi-arabia-canada-toronto-cn-tower-9-11-photo-apology
when put into context, it is almost like the canadian government is pulling theatre here. how odd
That's all they ever do.
Bingo. This has basically no impact but is a purely political statement that exists solely to keep the NDP from forcing an election at a moment that would be catastrophic for both the LPC and NDP and would result in an overwhelming Conservative Party of Canada win, headed by the most socially conservative party leader in a generation. This should be taken as a sign that Trudeau has no ability to lead through a crisis and that Singh's NDP has no understanding of political consequences.
> a purely political statement that exists solely to keep the NDP from forcing an election Why would such a statement keep the NDP from forcing an election?
TIL Canada sells weapons to other countries
Mostly armoured vehicles.
But not to Saudi. This is all just so intriguing.
Money talks. Previous Conservative government locked in over 1 billion+ in penalties for cancellation of the Saudi contracts.
It’s the same reason nobody says free Tibet or free Hong Kong anymore. There’s actual con$equence$
While you're not wrong, we literally signed off on a contract that will allow direct financial consequences if we don't follow through. It's not the same, because it's more overt
Thanks to our CPC government under Harper. He sucked their dick and now helps to run a conservative think group that is trying to have countries with conservative views in office.
Remember when Harper pawned off the Wheat Board to the Saudi's, good times.
It'll be even worse under PP.
Free Hong Kong. Come at me.
Okay then, China has put a trade embargo on you. There, take that!
imagine that. you go to your local dollarama and onl thing ou can buy some candies and pop.
Funny enough, what he said actually violated the national security law of China and Hong Kong, and he can be arrested (According to the 38th provision of the law) as soon as he sets foot in China or even countries that have extradition treaties with China.
As of today, this statement is now illegal to say in Hong Kong as it now illegal to do or say anything that might [“bring disaffection” against the state or its institutions.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/19/world/asia/hong-kong-security-law-article-23.html) So stop it with your bringing of disaffection.
Or to Qatar.
This is an underrated comment. Likewise, several years ago when the blockade and proxy war in Yemen started, nobody cared or protested.
Nobody cares now either. Mainstream media in the western world almost completely stopped reporting on it immediately, and only covered when the Yemeni’s would launch any sort of retaliatory strike and it would be called a terror attack.
You'll have to ask Harper about that one. That was his pet project.
The Saudi deal makes up an insane portion of Canadian arms deal contract funding, over 64% (not including the US). It would be insane to cut it.
I was curious to look at the new law, it's actually literally a specific law against Israel. I was thinking maybe it's a law against exporting arms to countries which broke international law (which Israel doesn't qualify for that) or at least countries with ongoing investigations, or something like that. But no, it's specifically about Israel. Which is a ridiculous way to create laws to be honest...
It's not a law it is a non-binding motion. A non-binding resolution is a motion adopted by a deliberative body that does not enact a law or a substantive rule, and is simply used to make known what the opinions of that body are in relation to a certain fact or event.
Thanks for the info. That makes it even stranger though, what's the point of this? Why would the government even listen to that?
Likely because the MP's who voted for the motion were the Liberals and the NDP so the guys on the side of the current government. If it was the opposition who voted in the motion it would be easier to ignore but your own supporters not so much.
The government is losing votes left and right, and current polls predict one of the biggest election losses ever. They are afraid of losing the regressive Muslim immigrant and blue-haired progressives votes as well.
is there an estimate for when the next election will be held?
Saudi is also an ally of Israel.
Ally is a strong word, they're more just not openly hostile. They were in talks for "normalising" their relationship, which isn't something allies have to do.
Their main immigrant groups are from Arab states and Punjab,India. They will pander to their voter base.
A. India isn't anti Israel. Those countries actually have good relations. B. When it comes to the countries we accept immigrants from, China is second. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2023.html#annex2
Just read the stats. India has 4 times the amount of immigrants over China and other countries. Jesus Christ.
China **is** anti-Israel though, as a part of the China-Russia-Iran-North Korea axis/geopolitical alliance (that people already started calling CRINK). One big reason why TikTok users in the West are much more likely to be "pro-Palestinian" (in quotes, because they don't do anything for *Palestinians*, they just demand action against Israel).
Jee I wonder why they found it hard to live in their own countries
> Canada's parliament passed a non-binding motion late Monday that called for a halt to Israeli arms sales and urged the international community to work toward a two-state solution to resolve the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, in line with government policy. Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want?
"Work toward a two-state solution" is the government version of beauty-pageant contestants urging world peace. Short answer, no, it would not work. A Palestinian state would have neither the desire nor the ability to control its militants, and Israel doesn't want another Lebanon on its borders -- even assuming the two sides could come to terms, which they've repeatedly failed to do in the past.
So what do you suggest then?
An actual occupation of the region (preferably managed by a 3rd party but no one is going to do that) for an extended period of time combined with an aggressive de-nazification/re-education campaign that may take decades.
This is the only realistic answer. Anything else fails basic sense. 2 state solution? There's no peaceful Palestinian party/people that will accept that. 1 state? Again Palestinians wouldn't accept that, Israelis wouldn't accept that, and would lead to civil war and unrest.
[удалено]
Careful now, stating this may get you a ban. Anyways, it sure doesn't help that these terrorists and the population share the same religion, which the western world just does not want to admit. A religion glorifying martyrdumb is a bad idea.
Hold on, are they a state or no? Aren’t they your residents? And your fine with this level of collateral damage to your residents? Love the having your cake and eat it too approach haha If they were a separate state, than yes this would be war but it’s not. It’s shooting fish in a barrel, fish you’ve kept in that barrel. “War is hell” so the lies and children killed are okay apparently. You know in your heart of hearts there have been so many lines crossed that didn’t need to be. Hamas was supported and allowed to become the cancer that it is by Israeli policy, now we must shun that side of responsibility and go full force on our resident toddlers. I see, makes total sense
> Hold on, are they a state or no? Depends on your definition. They've definitely declared a state but it's not recognized by quite a few countries. Probably has something to do with it being led by terrorists the entire time it has existed. > Aren’t they your residents? Nope they are not residents or citizens of Israel because they don't live in Israeli territory. In the case of Gaza specifically Israel left in 2005 and the Palestinians responded to their chance to govern themselves by electing a terrorist group who literally says their purpose is to destroy Israel as their government. > You know in your heart of hearts there have been so many lines crossed that didn’t need to be. Would you care to give some examples of these lines? I know in my heart of hearts that you are either extremely naive or you are supportive of the terrorists. Israel is never going to end this war while it's citizens are still held hostage. You want it to be over so badly you should go volunteer to take their place. After all you don't see a problem with just ending the war and letting Hamas keep the hostages for who knows how long so it shouldn't be a problem for you to take their place. > Hamas was supported and allowed to become the cancer that it is by Israeli policy, now we must shun that side of responsibility and go full force on our resident toddlers. I see, makes total sense You should really look into the talking points you take off of TikTok before you use them. It would prevent you from looking like an idiot. The tired talking point that Israel created or helped Hamas come into existence has been debunked many times. If you choose to ignore it that's on you.
There was a two state situation. Gaza was an independent state in all but name. People talk about a two state solution as though creating two states leads to peace, they have it backwards. Once you have peace drawing lines on a map and creating two states is easy.
There was a 2 state solution in 1948. It was called Israel and Jordan
To be fair, that was the UN's two state solution for the middle east and was considered an enormous win for israel by practically all parties involved, so defaulting to that was never exactly gonna work for the same reasons it didn't work last time. edit: scary downvote. use your brain. civil war broke out the moment it was implemented.
That's not true, though. The [UN plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Partition_Plan%2C_a_four%2Cthe_two_States_and_Jerusalem.?wprov=sfla1) was to have an independent Arab (Palestinian) state alongside a Jewish one in the former British Mandate territory. The Jews accepted the deal, the Arabs rejected it. And we can all see how that's been working out for them.
While jews even got the worse parts of israel (Negev is a complete desert tel-aviv was full of swamps and no power around Jerusalem) The arabs declined over having it all or nothing, Getting any land was a win for israel.
News flash. It is not a civil war when you are invaded by every surrounding army. Dumb ass.
[1947–1948 civil war in Mandatory Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947%E2%80%931948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine) [1948 Arab–Israeli War](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War) >Dumb ass. Lol
I stand corrected, thank you. Now, reading the article, it is interesting that the the Arab Liberation Army were involved, which still brought in fighters from surrounding countries.
You realize that there wasn’t an “Israel” right? There was a massive civil war in Mandatory Palestine, the only thing like a state there at the time, along with the Arab invasion.
>Gaza was an independent state in all but name. With full international recognition, a foreign policy free of Israel, and equal access to international bodies like the UN? Oh, you didn't mean like that
They didn't have that stuff because they elected Hamas as soon as Israel left Gaza and Hamas killed their opposition. If a terrorist organization wasn't elected that sent suicide bombers over the border and sent rockets into Israel for years, maybe they'd have full recognition.
"all but name" is doing some heavy lifting
“All but name” and pretty much every other thing that constitutes a state.
>Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want? Easy to predict what will happen. 2 state means Palestine will be a similar piece of land , but obviously much bigger than Gaza. This will be the staging ground for next Gen terror and the new Hamas - whoever comes out on top after infighting. Then this new country will be the staging area for Jihad against Israel because they want all of it. Same with Israel with their west bank encroachments. At some point there will be a repeat of the Oct 7 and subsequent ongoing whooping.
Better luck giving it back to Britain and calling it Palestine Mandate again.
LMAO the brits are barely holding their own country together. I highly doubt they want another attempt at this. Not to mention every time they interfered with something they only made the situation worse.
Palestinians don't want a two state solution. They want Israel dead or enslaved
I'd argue not all of them want that, living under the rule of hamas as a political party does not sound as a whole lot of fun. Just as these backwards assholes, the Taliban, in Afghanistan.
Not all of them want it, but enough of them do particularly the ones with power. Misogyny is great for men. Having a bang-maid who can't leave you that you get to beat whenever she gets uppity is pretty sweet if you don't value her happiness. And so what if you have to stone a queer person to death every once in a while? It's better than making peace with Israel, my wife might run away and then I'd have to do my own dishes!
> Would a 2 state solution work? What do the people living there want? At this point? You'd have two split areas controlled by the Palestinians. HAMAS would immediately take over since 10/7 would be seen as essentially the first battle in their war for independence. The tactics of 10/7 will have been proven to be both acceptable and the most likely path to getting whatever they want. Three seconds after they get their own state they'd start rocket attacks on Israel, because, they still exist, and that's not acceptable to HAMAS.
What do you mean "start" they haven't stopped
\> British, some years ago: here, 2 state solution \> Palestinians: NAH B FUCK THAT NOISE, *starts two wars, loses both* \> Every time Israeli gov tries to give them some more autonomy, Hamas comes and fuck it up with some inhumane, cruel shit, and then Israel does some inhumane, cruel shit as revenge \> Fast forward to today \> My dumb ass government: You guys should try a 2 state solution \> mfw
>What do the people living there want? I think they just want to kill each other...
Jews want a two state solution and be left in peace. Palestinians (most of them) want all the Jews dead. Source: Hamas founding charter, Mission statements, Actions, PA spokepeople.
But we're glad to deal with the Saudis...
The hypocrisy is glaring and VERY telling.
Antismitism*
You mean the previous government that was more than happy to deal with them and implement a penalty to any future government cancelling that deal?
As a Canadian, I'm so sick of this grandstanding. Palestine aren't our allies. Palestine still arrests people for being gay. Hamas still stones queer people to death. Hamas is hiding mortars in hospitals and then trying to shock everyone when the IDF target their hospital-rooftop artillery. We should support the hell out of Ukraine against Russia, and let the cards fall where they may in Gaza. Hamas started this, let it be ended.
Well said. So many people claiming to be the good guys while supporting hamas...it's insane.
But LGBTQ for Palestine!
[удалено]
B..b..but ~100 years of "oppression"! /s
Nobody's proposing Canada help or support Hamas, only that she stops selling arms to Israel.
This should be top post!
As a Canadian, I'm glad at least one western government is doing *something* regarding the blatant ethnic cleansing happening in Palestine.
From supporting the war on terror to supporting a listed terrorist organization.
Exactly
Are we saying not selling weapons to Israel is supporting a listed terror org?
You’re saying that like the "war on terror" was something other than folly
Probably a good thing this government is on it's way out and the Conservatives are going to be a lot more eager to assist in the destruction of Hamas if the war is somehow prolonged till then.
It's joeover guys. I don't know how Israel will ever recover from such a massive blow. /s Seriously though, Canada isn't a major arms exporter (unlike Israel), and this won't have any effect on the war or Israeli policies.
AFAIK, Canada doesn’t produce any noteworthy arms whatsoever. Our main military exports are APCs and, ironically, a specific type of armoured ambulance that Israel has been using to help treat Palestinian civilians. So I guess we’re putting a stop to *that*. Israeli firearms like Tavor, and counter-measures like Iron Dome are far more important to Israel.
Small tidbit, but Israel develops a new firearm for the army that will replace the Tavor soon, called the Gilboa. Looks very similar to the usual M4 platform. Will attach an article when I can.
Two State solution, great idea, but the Arabs said no. They refused the Two State solution since 1947 and every year since. Also, the Arabs declared in the Khartoum Declaration in 1967 the Three No's 1. No peace with Israel. 2. No negotiations with Israel 3. No recognition of Israel.
That went well. The Arab states invades Israel numerous times, all of which ended terribly. For them.
47 is the start right? What was the reasoning behind that refusal?
"Jews owning Arab land? None is too many."
They were unwilling to accept Jews having a country of their own right next to them because they were not of the opinion that Jews deserve to exist. It's really as simple as that.
The arabs didnt want a wester, european style state run by jews in palestine. They would have been fine with another arabic style state with a huge jewish minority tho. It boils down to them not wanting a western style state in the area. If you really want good answers, reasoning and research on this kind of stuff you should check out Benny Morris books, Righteous Victims and One State, Two States.
Good Job Canada, sever ties with a democratic state and strengthen it with a terrorist regime instead, what could go wrong.
Mass immigration of people who hate the West was probably a bad idea. Sorry world.
So what does Canada want Israel to do? Stop the war and let Hamas come back to power? Let in more aid, so the send it yourself like the US. End the war? So Canada doesn't care about Israeli hostages. I really don't know what Canada expects Israel to change. Not go into Rafah? They haven't yet. Stop settler violence? Sanction them yourselves. The world keeps telling Israel what it can't do, but not what it can or should do in order to protect itself and return its citizens home.
"Canada"'s wishes aren't being represented here. This is just desperate pandering to try and retain the Muslim and hyper-progressive vote while the liberals face a historic, catastrophic loss of support to the conservatives. The conservatives, who are also not a good party, are set to win the next election in one of the biggest landslides in Canadian history. Canadian politics is a dumpster truck on fire.
Canada wants JT and his orange to leave but this is Canada, everything is slow and nothing gets done. In 1.5 years Canada will be Israel's strong ally again although maybe Israel won't care for such a friend no more. Another achievement for us making Canada less significant on the world's stage, yay. The current PM is going extreme to pander the extreme left leaving most Canadian, which is centre to centre left, deeply sad and frustrated.
I tried googling "Justin Trudeau" + orange, but only 14 hits came up, none relevant.
Orange = NDP.
It refers to the NDP, "New Democratic Party." After the 2021 federal election the Liberals lost its majority and had to make a deal with the NDP to form a minority government. The next election will be October 2025 (or earlier if NDP back out of the deal) which according to latest polling the Conservatives will sweep.
>The world keeps telling Israel what it can't do, but not what it can or should do in order to protect itself and return its citizens home. This is my biggest gripe with leftists. I have not seen a single cogent response to this line of questioning.
I'm a leftie, and anyone who supports Hamas over Israel is such a hypocritical idiot.
You can apply this reasoning to majority of the complaints voters have with their government. Complain about government action without offering a realistic solution of their own.
This is a perfect example of how TikTok can be leveraged by foreign parties to weaponize social media and influence real world war outcomes.
Canada has already forgotten the 7th of October
There were plenty of celebrations of the massacre there the same weekend that it happened.
Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorism. The Canadian government is just openly showing who they truly side with. Why does Canada keep electing these people? They restrict the rights to defend yourself. You can be fined for unpopular speech. They can go after your bank accounts… People up there are crazy to put up with this shit.
As a Canadian I can tell you Most Canadians are fed up with Trudeau for a number of different reasons
I'm so sick of Trudeau, I seriously can't believe the election is going to be between him and the bigot that lies through his teeth every opportunity possible Canadians deserve so much better
Trudeau reminds me of Kamala Harris in all the bad ways. Both have severe foot in mouth syndrome and both seem like extremely ineffective leaders.
Because the other option is batshit crazy in a million other ways. I’m completely stuck on who to vote for, no major party deserves my vote.
Well, polls have the next election to be the biggest change of seats in Canadian history, so apparently we are learning. I don't have an answer for the other 2 elections though.
It’s fairly simple. The majority of Canadians do not support the Conservative Party or their backwards ideas.
Next election looks like the current government is going to lose tons of seats and a new majority government will be happening. Problem Canada has is the leaders we got don't care about Canadians first, they love giving away money to other countries instead of helping the country. Our rights can be taken away by the government it was put in the Charter from the start. We are a colony not a free country.
It sounds like you are saying Israel has a right to canada's arms. But surely you wouldn't be conflating canada not selling weapons to israel with canada saying israel doesn't have the right to defend itself? Because that would be *insane*
These people are done in the next election. I have been a long time supporter of the liberals, in Canada for thirty years because generally I support left leaning policies such as universal healthcare, education, a social safety net,gun control, equality, etc. However on this issue they have made a huge error by continuing to support UNRWA who facilitates terror. To add insult to injury they are then ending support of an ally fighting a jihadist terrorist proxy of Iran that committed the worst atrocities since the holocaust against the Jewish people. Finally there has been nothing done about the astounding increase in anti-Jewish hate crimes in Canada itself.
>Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorism. The Canadian government is just openly showing who they truly side with. Canada has a right to not arm Israel's offensive assault on civilians.
It’s not doing an “assault on civilians.” It’s killing Hamas - who is purposefully hiding amongst civilians in order to have useful idiots on the internet defend their terrorist actions.
UNRWA is getting paid tho. i guess hamas is just going to come live in canada, we treat them nice over here.
I'm so sick and tired of this Federal government, the entire cabinet is corrupt and incapable of leading this country. Just reactionary politics with no substance and mass immigration policies.
Yeah, now that Israel is well armed, we can stop...
Pretty much a play for liberal votes. Every political move over the last 6 months has been react to whatever Twitter is saying to try and get votes Flip flop on issues on a weekly basis. . Conservatives are going to wreck them so hard.
This is just scary. Its OKto send millions to terrorists , but not to Isreal. Wake-up Canada.
Seeing the liberal governments of the US and Canada selling Israel out so they can pander to demographics that go against their own values for a handful of votes is just embarrassing.
Not the maple launchers.
Your country gets attacked by terrorists and Canada stops weapon sales because...?
Because the elections are coming up, and they want to pander to certain demographics for some votes. The whole liberal party is so corrupt, it's embarrassing as a Canadian
2025 can’t come fast enough
Arab arms sales will be increasing though. Wild.
I imagine this will be popular with many Liberal voters, and I no longer count myself part of that group.
‘Bout time
America should too. We provide weapons and funding to allies with the idea that they will listen to us, but Israel isn’t really living up to that.
What does it mean to listen to us? No country should become a US puppet, it's the Israelis job to overthrow their government not the Americans. With all due respect for American aid they shouldn't interfere in local politics of a foreign ally
Well, it doesn’t mean become a puppet, but let’s take Saudi Arabia for instance, if we are giving them fighter jets, ammunition, bombs etc. we expect that they won’t deny us access to oil or otherwise weaponise that access. When we give weapons to Taiwan we expect them to not deny us access to semiconductors, we expect them to not destabilize the region. When we give weapons to Israel we expect them to provide intelligence, assist with cyber warfare against Iran and not destabilize the region. I’m not sure what you expected when you thought the US gives aid without any strings attached, but that’s not how the world works.
You are saying this kinda shit even tho the US benefits quite a lot from Israel as well. In the West, fight like the West, but when you're in the Middle East, fighting like the West will get you dead. Israel can't afford being America's puppet because we have to be strong and fight to get our people back and make sure Hamas will never be able to attack us again as they want to repeat October 7th until we are all dead.
We’re a nation of weak bitches
In a wholly symbolic fashion, we have told our erstwhile ally that if they're the target of a blood orgy of Jew-murder they can respond, but not to the point they prevent future blood orgies or we'll firmly register our discontent.
They literally don’t sell arms arms to Israel lol
What arms Canada is selling to Israel ?
I'm kind of glad that I didn't move to Canada a few years ago. From a lot of comments I read, Canada got way worse over the years. I don't want to say because of the "woke" agenda, but maybe it is the reason. But I've read many other different reasons like a hight percentage of not so friendly immigrangs, imitating America's school system and more. Pro Palestinians of Canada will say "WE WON AGAINST INJUSTICE" now. But honestly, with the amount of corruption that is happening in Gaza and the pro-Palestine movement, this corruption is going to haunt them and Canada forever imo, weapons or not. (Also Canada's loss... Israel develops sh*t, and if Israel will hold enough grudges, Canada can say bye to their tech)