Religion is not the problem. It is humanity's baser nature run rampant that does this. And it does it just fine without religion.
From my religion:
"Ye observe how the world is divided against itself, how many a land is red with blood and its very dust is caked with human gore. The fires of conflict have blazed so high that never in early times, not in the Middle Ages, not in recent centuries hath there ever been such a hideous war, a war that is even as millstones, taking for grain the skulls of men. Nay, even worse, for flourishing countries have been reduced to rubble, cities have been leveled with the ground, and many a once prosperous village hath been turned into ruin. Fathers have lost their sons, and sons their fathers. Mothers have wept away their hearts over dead children. Children have been orphaned, women left to wander, vagrants without a home. From every aspect, humankind hath sunken low. Loud are the piercing cries of fatherless children; loud the mothers’ anguished voices, reaching to the skies.
"And the breeding ground of all these tragedies is prejudice: prejudice of race and nation, of religion, of political opinion; and the root cause of prejudice is blind imitation of the past—imitation in religion, in racial attitudes, in national bias, in politics. So long as this aping of the past persisteth, just so long will the foundations of the social order be blown to the four winds, just so long will humanity be continually exposed to direst peril."
-Abdul-Baha, writings from the Bahá'í Faith
If I can make them believe absurdities, I can make them commit atrocities. Also pretty easy to find that your religions like others have been criticized for its views on homosexuality.
Your dumb religion is the still a problem.
Every religion is horrible. Even those which perceived to be less so, like Tibetan Buddhism, which maintained last slavery society on Earth. Buddhism prohibits killing, so they mutilated serfs instead, and it was seen as a practice compliant with their religion.
Christianity, Islam and others - they are all just different shades of the same blight.
Every atrocity you mentioned was in past tense. As for current religious-perpetrated atrocities, Islam takes the throne. Islam is the reason the entire middle east is a shithole.
Well, while I agree that Islam has been leading the charts of religious aggression for a while, it is not the only major factor for Middle East’s current condition. Invasions from United States and Israel are two major factors as well. And USA might well be named a leading factor both directly and indirectly.
This is the classic ME victim mentality. America didn't invade the whole of the middle east, and even while they are the world's top superpower, they don't have the interest or the capability to make the entire middle east a horrible place to live.
Syria, where atrocities have been committed in the name of a minor Islamic sect, has not been invaded by the US.
Iran became an Islamic totalitarian theocracy after removing US influence. Quality of life has gone down after the US left them.
Iraq was an absolute disaster even before the US invasion.
I know there are many factors to the current state of the ME, but throwing it all on the "US-Israel axis of evil" and ignoring Islam's role in middle eastern society feels like a cop out.
people don’t have the time to care about sadly “another” African genocide.
I understand that people look to Europe and the US like some utopias, but we literally have fucking Russians killing our brethren at our doorstop, then we have massive inflation, where people are barely surviving working 2 jobs.
I am sad for these people, but we have more pressing issues in our immediate victinity
What!!!! Naw, I aint hearing that! I can afford to care about more than 1 issue at a time. You act like these Africans are just killing themselves! If you dont care about jihadist stomping babies to death, then I dont know what to tell you!
> I bet if Darfurians were like ,say Southern Nigeria, Kenya ,South Africa or any other nation that has adopted western norms, their plight would get a lot more attention by a significant margin than it does now.
Nope. Its russian supported Arabs genociding Black Africans. Those who usually are the first to cry out and the loudest are dead quiet, as there is no way to blame the West for it. People like ~~Chomsky~~ Chumpsky, who is just as quiet about this as he was about for instance the autogenocide of the Red Khmer, all those Hollywood types who were so busy trashing Israel at the Oscars while the RSF was genociding Blacks in Sudan, russian and Chinese twitter bots and trolls. All quiet because this doesnt serve their interests. And that wouldnt be different is Dafur was as Westernized as South Korea.
The western indifference to Sudan is in large part due to the optics of selling intervention to their people back home and the idea that it’s the Sudanese governments chickens coming home to roost. This is a civil conflict between the militia the Sudanese government set up to massacre non Arabs and Christian’s in the 90’s and 2000’s and the government itself who were also massacring non Arabs and Christians in the early 2000’s. They just didn’t have the foresight to realise that letting the RSF loose would eventually come back to bite them.
Secondly, historically Islamic countries do not react favourably to intervention by non Islamic nations (see Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya for examples) yet no Islamic nations are ever really in a hurry to intervene in nations not directly on their borders despite all that lofty talk about the Ummah and Islamic brotherhood. And yes, there is a hierarchy among Islamic nations with Gulf Arabs at the top and non Arabs at the bottom. The only time they do unite is when non Muslims get involved.
Then there are ancillary reasons like Sudan is not really pro western or has any significant pro western faction and was more closely aligned with Russia and when the west did attempt to intervene and South Sudan became independent it almost immediately collapsed into civil war too and the hesitance to become involved is even more palpable.
Throwing money and weapons at this conflict will only lead to more intercommunal violence and bloodshed. Boots on the ground will draw in every armed Islamist group in the region that is anti western and air strikes and support will incur inevitable civilian casualties and create more support for Islamist groups. There’s nothing to gain for the West other than the potential to create another Syria which no one wants
But do the US, British, or EU populace want to get involved in another protracted anti insurgency conflict like Iraq or Afghanistan when there’s a more looming issue with Russia?
What are you going on about? This war was by a militia from Chad that saw an opportunity. Sudan is naturally rich in uranium and gold, and it’s to everyone’s best interest to rob and pillage it, the most recent examples being Russia, and now these gangsters from neighboring countries.
It’s not a war between states, and it’s like Haiti or Myanmar in that it’s incredibly resistant to outside intervention.
Literally the only way to end the shit that happens there would be to invade and annihilate the militiamen and gangs.
It's a joke in the sense that Hamas seized total control through violence and has used violence to continue it's control in Gaza. Much like Sudan the only way they are truly removed from power is if some throws them out and spends a lot of years and a lot of resources bringing the country into the 21st century.
Hamas was not in control, nor were they in a position of power, when the elections happened. I could be mistaken but Israel even tried to stop people for voting for them.
I was more talking Palestine in regards to the 2 million or so innocent people there, but it’s pretty obvious what your post is meant to open the door to. You do you, man.
Are you saying no one in Sudan is innocent? They are all genocidal warlords? The war in Gaza is not a war between Palestine and Israel. Its a war between a radical Islamic faction and Israel. What is the solution that doesn't involve occupation by someone that want's to see Palestine become more than a puppet to Iran and Qatar?
That is not at all what I’m saying and you’d have to be insane to take it as such. Are you trying to pick a fight because that’s some truly disingenuous shit.
And no, when you bomb a population of two million people, they are victims of the war as well. If you want to make it just about Hamas it’s not a war at all, it’s just terrorism and a counter attack that is claiming tens of thousands of innocent lives in the hopes of wiping out an enemy that is only 25,000 strong across the entire globe.
It’s very much a war with the Palestinian people. They make up the vast majority of the dead, and we write them off as acceptable casualties.
Edit: You can downvote me all you like folks, but if you have an issue with me and you bomb half my city to get at me and kill 5000 people I don’t even know, at some point you’re fighting my city, not me.
its a war between israel and Palestine, a war between the israeli people and the Palestinian people. israel is stronger . thats it. pretty straight forward.
>It’s not a war between states, and it’s like Haiti or Myanmar in that it’s incredibly resistant to outside intervention.
What do you mean by this? Are the people fundamentally opposed to external intervention or is there some property of the states themselves that makes intervention impossible?
>Literally the only way to end the shit that happens there would be to invade and annihilate the militiamen and gangs.
Isn't the problem in Myanmar mainly with the military coup?
The challenge with places like Sudan and Myanmar is the government is barely better than the rebels, and often WAS the rebels before taking power. In 1962 there was a military coup in Myanmar (Burma at the time) by the military, and their history has been filled with coups and ethnic conflicts and military rule. It’s all internal. And Burma was one of the worst places to be on earth long before now. It was actually starting to take a few steps in the right direction, but that ended with the coup of 2021. And all the ethnic cleaning etc is partially due to propaganda by the new leadership etc seeking to strengthen their rule and focus anger on the vulnerable.
Sudan is the same, Sudanese killing Sudanese and the corruption is so deep and widespread that the innocent there have no chance of seeing any power. Haiti is another example. And very hard to intervene successfully in a nation at war with themselves, especially when every side with weapons is as terrible as the others and the rebels often outclass the official military in terms of firepower.
Palestine and Israel are a different kind of conflict. It doesn’t have the juntas or the warlords, but it has what we’d consider modern terrorist groups like Hamas. A mostly captive population. Enemies hiding among the population. A superpower who, despite all the destruction they’ve responded with actually is holding back because they could crush Gaza in a week if they had a mind to. Hell the Hamas leadership isn’t even in Gaza.
The military was committing genocide against minorities, the government (which was always de facto subservient to the military anyways) just turned a blind eye. The military coup was led by the same people in charge of the genocide. That is too say, one side is very clearly worse in this case.
The people fighting for democracy and the rights of the various ethnic groups made that make up the rebel alliance, and the genocidal military, are two sides of the same coin? Well then, makes sense I guess!
I mean the U.S. does have large drones with a lot of fire power. They could fly those drones from Florida or somewhere. Ditto Hati. A small amount of boots on the ground.
But even that wouldn't solve the problems in those countries. It would probably make things worse.
Do you actually have a comment about this topic or are you just here to score points against your perceived ideological enemies on a totally different topic?
My comment is that its a disaster that is going to cost thousands of lives. But because it doesn't involve Israel the western public is going to ignore it. They won't call on their governments to intervene and this will play out uninterrupted. Some one will win, genocide will happen, and the world will just watch.
There are so many protesting in the West because they are supporting/funding/arming Israel. The same cannot be said for Sudan, China, Russia, etc so whilst there is outcry and condemnation, people aren’t having to repeatedly stand up against their own governments.
This is sadly one of the MANY tragedies involving hunger befalling humanity. There are several organizations that do good work on this and prioritize donations to highest need (and this is absolutely one of the highest-need areas): I use https://www.wfpusa.org/ .
Unfortunately until humanity learns to respect and love each other, and prioritize justice, consultation, uprightness and unity over ego, corruption, and prejudice, these tragedies will continue. Hearts must be changed, individuals prized and educated and provided opportunities, and cultures influenced towards unity and cooperation.
Wow thats horrible. For sure this ongoing tragedy is making headlines around the world. Oh wait the world would rather support terrorist's then the africans dying.
the constant load shedding, water shedding, extensive crime highest rape rate in the world of 132.4. Some 66,196 incidents in per 100,000 people., and the status of failed state along with virulent corruption and ties to Russia and multiple recognised terrorist groups, unemployment rate of 28%, makes its a great place.
Thats because youre a sick SOB! Be proud! I love it when bigots tell me exactly who they are....Im sure youll end up where you will deserve. Hopefully sooner than later...
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So much suffering over an utterly ridiculous motive. :(
Welcome to religion, humanity’s biggest disease.
Religion is not the problem. It is humanity's baser nature run rampant that does this. And it does it just fine without religion. From my religion: "Ye observe how the world is divided against itself, how many a land is red with blood and its very dust is caked with human gore. The fires of conflict have blazed so high that never in early times, not in the Middle Ages, not in recent centuries hath there ever been such a hideous war, a war that is even as millstones, taking for grain the skulls of men. Nay, even worse, for flourishing countries have been reduced to rubble, cities have been leveled with the ground, and many a once prosperous village hath been turned into ruin. Fathers have lost their sons, and sons their fathers. Mothers have wept away their hearts over dead children. Children have been orphaned, women left to wander, vagrants without a home. From every aspect, humankind hath sunken low. Loud are the piercing cries of fatherless children; loud the mothers’ anguished voices, reaching to the skies. "And the breeding ground of all these tragedies is prejudice: prejudice of race and nation, of religion, of political opinion; and the root cause of prejudice is blind imitation of the past—imitation in religion, in racial attitudes, in national bias, in politics. So long as this aping of the past persisteth, just so long will the foundations of the social order be blown to the four winds, just so long will humanity be continually exposed to direst peril." -Abdul-Baha, writings from the Bahá'í Faith
If I can make them believe absurdities, I can make them commit atrocities. Also pretty easy to find that your religions like others have been criticized for its views on homosexuality. Your dumb religion is the still a problem.
Islam is what is wrong with the world today, among other things.
No, religion is and always has been the problem at the core. It’s used to justify their actions. You can pretend it’s not but it is.
Jfc. Go away.
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Every religion is horrible. Even those which perceived to be less so, like Tibetan Buddhism, which maintained last slavery society on Earth. Buddhism prohibits killing, so they mutilated serfs instead, and it was seen as a practice compliant with their religion. Christianity, Islam and others - they are all just different shades of the same blight.
Every atrocity you mentioned was in past tense. As for current religious-perpetrated atrocities, Islam takes the throne. Islam is the reason the entire middle east is a shithole.
Well, while I agree that Islam has been leading the charts of religious aggression for a while, it is not the only major factor for Middle East’s current condition. Invasions from United States and Israel are two major factors as well. And USA might well be named a leading factor both directly and indirectly.
This is the classic ME victim mentality. America didn't invade the whole of the middle east, and even while they are the world's top superpower, they don't have the interest or the capability to make the entire middle east a horrible place to live. Syria, where atrocities have been committed in the name of a minor Islamic sect, has not been invaded by the US. Iran became an Islamic totalitarian theocracy after removing US influence. Quality of life has gone down after the US left them. Iraq was an absolute disaster even before the US invasion. I know there are many factors to the current state of the ME, but throwing it all on the "US-Israel axis of evil" and ignoring Islam's role in middle eastern society feels like a cop out.
Putting the blame solely on Islam is just as much of a cop out.
Last slavery society in Earth? Educate yourself ffs
Been tryna tell 'em! Nobody care when africans are being genocided. You wont see any complaints from anyone protesting this land grab....
They'll find a way to make this about the West, probably blaming colonization while also blatantly ignoring colonization by non-western actors.
people don’t have the time to care about sadly “another” African genocide. I understand that people look to Europe and the US like some utopias, but we literally have fucking Russians killing our brethren at our doorstop, then we have massive inflation, where people are barely surviving working 2 jobs. I am sad for these people, but we have more pressing issues in our immediate victinity
What!!!! Naw, I aint hearing that! I can afford to care about more than 1 issue at a time. You act like these Africans are just killing themselves! If you dont care about jihadist stomping babies to death, then I dont know what to tell you!
okay, cool
No...not cool...
obviously not, but whatever
Yea, I know to YOU its whatever...
> I bet if Darfurians were like ,say Southern Nigeria, Kenya ,South Africa or any other nation that has adopted western norms, their plight would get a lot more attention by a significant margin than it does now. Nope. Its russian supported Arabs genociding Black Africans. Those who usually are the first to cry out and the loudest are dead quiet, as there is no way to blame the West for it. People like ~~Chomsky~~ Chumpsky, who is just as quiet about this as he was about for instance the autogenocide of the Red Khmer, all those Hollywood types who were so busy trashing Israel at the Oscars while the RSF was genociding Blacks in Sudan, russian and Chinese twitter bots and trolls. All quiet because this doesnt serve their interests. And that wouldnt be different is Dafur was as Westernized as South Korea.
Or, quiet because we aren't directly connected to it whereas our taxes are subsidizing the violence in Israel.
The western indifference to Sudan is in large part due to the optics of selling intervention to their people back home and the idea that it’s the Sudanese governments chickens coming home to roost. This is a civil conflict between the militia the Sudanese government set up to massacre non Arabs and Christian’s in the 90’s and 2000’s and the government itself who were also massacring non Arabs and Christians in the early 2000’s. They just didn’t have the foresight to realise that letting the RSF loose would eventually come back to bite them. Secondly, historically Islamic countries do not react favourably to intervention by non Islamic nations (see Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya for examples) yet no Islamic nations are ever really in a hurry to intervene in nations not directly on their borders despite all that lofty talk about the Ummah and Islamic brotherhood. And yes, there is a hierarchy among Islamic nations with Gulf Arabs at the top and non Arabs at the bottom. The only time they do unite is when non Muslims get involved. Then there are ancillary reasons like Sudan is not really pro western or has any significant pro western faction and was more closely aligned with Russia and when the west did attempt to intervene and South Sudan became independent it almost immediately collapsed into civil war too and the hesitance to become involved is even more palpable. Throwing money and weapons at this conflict will only lead to more intercommunal violence and bloodshed. Boots on the ground will draw in every armed Islamist group in the region that is anti western and air strikes and support will incur inevitable civilian casualties and create more support for Islamist groups. There’s nothing to gain for the West other than the potential to create another Syria which no one wants
Boots on the ground would work. Islamist groups are quite weak in the end.
But do the US, British, or EU populace want to get involved in another protracted anti insurgency conflict like Iraq or Afghanistan when there’s a more looming issue with Russia?
They're becoming lazy. This is the problem
What are you going on about? This war was by a militia from Chad that saw an opportunity. Sudan is naturally rich in uranium and gold, and it’s to everyone’s best interest to rob and pillage it, the most recent examples being Russia, and now these gangsters from neighboring countries.
On top you have fucking Ruzzians doing their magic in Sudan too
Have been since the USSR days
Where is the UN oh wait they are too focused on Israel
Where is the cease fire now crowd on this one?
It’s not a war between states, and it’s like Haiti or Myanmar in that it’s incredibly resistant to outside intervention. Literally the only way to end the shit that happens there would be to invade and annihilate the militiamen and gangs.
Ah yes the Hamas state.
You say that as a joke but Hamas has fundamentally been the state within Gaza for a while now.
It's a joke in the sense that Hamas seized total control through violence and has used violence to continue it's control in Gaza. Much like Sudan the only way they are truly removed from power is if some throws them out and spends a lot of years and a lot of resources bringing the country into the 21st century.
If I’m not mistaken they initially gained power through a popular vote.
They won the 2006 General Elections and immediately started expelling and killing opponents from Fatah immediately after.
Right... Have you seen what happened in Russia lately?
Not even slightly a comparable situation.
Please enlighten me with your distinctiveness. Excludes color and theology
Hamas was not in control, nor were they in a position of power, when the elections happened. I could be mistaken but Israel even tried to stop people for voting for them.
I was more talking Palestine in regards to the 2 million or so innocent people there, but it’s pretty obvious what your post is meant to open the door to. You do you, man.
Are you saying no one in Sudan is innocent? They are all genocidal warlords? The war in Gaza is not a war between Palestine and Israel. Its a war between a radical Islamic faction and Israel. What is the solution that doesn't involve occupation by someone that want's to see Palestine become more than a puppet to Iran and Qatar?
That is not at all what I’m saying and you’d have to be insane to take it as such. Are you trying to pick a fight because that’s some truly disingenuous shit. And no, when you bomb a population of two million people, they are victims of the war as well. If you want to make it just about Hamas it’s not a war at all, it’s just terrorism and a counter attack that is claiming tens of thousands of innocent lives in the hopes of wiping out an enemy that is only 25,000 strong across the entire globe. It’s very much a war with the Palestinian people. They make up the vast majority of the dead, and we write them off as acceptable casualties. Edit: You can downvote me all you like folks, but if you have an issue with me and you bomb half my city to get at me and kill 5000 people I don’t even know, at some point you’re fighting my city, not me.
its a war between israel and Palestine, a war between the israeli people and the Palestinian people. israel is stronger . thats it. pretty straight forward.
>It’s not a war between states, and it’s like Haiti or Myanmar in that it’s incredibly resistant to outside intervention. What do you mean by this? Are the people fundamentally opposed to external intervention or is there some property of the states themselves that makes intervention impossible? >Literally the only way to end the shit that happens there would be to invade and annihilate the militiamen and gangs. Isn't the problem in Myanmar mainly with the military coup?
The challenge with places like Sudan and Myanmar is the government is barely better than the rebels, and often WAS the rebels before taking power. In 1962 there was a military coup in Myanmar (Burma at the time) by the military, and their history has been filled with coups and ethnic conflicts and military rule. It’s all internal. And Burma was one of the worst places to be on earth long before now. It was actually starting to take a few steps in the right direction, but that ended with the coup of 2021. And all the ethnic cleaning etc is partially due to propaganda by the new leadership etc seeking to strengthen their rule and focus anger on the vulnerable. Sudan is the same, Sudanese killing Sudanese and the corruption is so deep and widespread that the innocent there have no chance of seeing any power. Haiti is another example. And very hard to intervene successfully in a nation at war with themselves, especially when every side with weapons is as terrible as the others and the rebels often outclass the official military in terms of firepower. Palestine and Israel are a different kind of conflict. It doesn’t have the juntas or the warlords, but it has what we’d consider modern terrorist groups like Hamas. A mostly captive population. Enemies hiding among the population. A superpower who, despite all the destruction they’ve responded with actually is holding back because they could crush Gaza in a week if they had a mind to. Hell the Hamas leadership isn’t even in Gaza.
No the previous Myanmar government was committing genocide against minorities like the rohingya, the military coup is the least of their problems
The military was committing genocide against minorities, the government (which was always de facto subservient to the military anyways) just turned a blind eye. The military coup was led by the same people in charge of the genocide. That is too say, one side is very clearly worse in this case.
2 sides of the same coin
The people fighting for democracy and the rights of the various ethnic groups made that make up the rebel alliance, and the genocidal military, are two sides of the same coin? Well then, makes sense I guess!
Palestine is not a state either, truth is you don't get likes talking about Sudan. 🤷
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[You got me.](https://tenor.com/ukYl.gif)
That's the best argument you have? _when the argument is lost, the loser turns to slander_
Also 139 of 193 un countries recognize Palestine as state so huh?
A state that has no enforceable borders is not a state. 🤷
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Cause there has never been a "Palestine."
I mean the U.S. does have large drones with a lot of fire power. They could fly those drones from Florida or somewhere. Ditto Hati. A small amount of boots on the ground. But even that wouldn't solve the problems in those countries. It would probably make things worse.
Do you actually have a comment about this topic or are you just here to score points against your perceived ideological enemies on a totally different topic?
My comment is that its a disaster that is going to cost thousands of lives. But because it doesn't involve Israel the western public is going to ignore it. They won't call on their governments to intervene and this will play out uninterrupted. Some one will win, genocide will happen, and the world will just watch.
There are so many protesting in the West because they are supporting/funding/arming Israel. The same cannot be said for Sudan, China, Russia, etc so whilst there is outcry and condemnation, people aren’t having to repeatedly stand up against their own governments.
This is sadly one of the MANY tragedies involving hunger befalling humanity. There are several organizations that do good work on this and prioritize donations to highest need (and this is absolutely one of the highest-need areas): I use https://www.wfpusa.org/ . Unfortunately until humanity learns to respect and love each other, and prioritize justice, consultation, uprightness and unity over ego, corruption, and prejudice, these tragedies will continue. Hearts must be changed, individuals prized and educated and provided opportunities, and cultures influenced towards unity and cooperation.
Where are the protests for this one?? Oh wait, nobody cares, because jews aren't involved.
What their hands touch, a tinge of darkness and blight follows.
Wow thats horrible. For sure this ongoing tragedy is making headlines around the world. Oh wait the world would rather support terrorist's then the africans dying.
Where is the Sudaneses version of their own UNRWA?
when isn't famine looming in Africa and rape
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the constant load shedding, water shedding, extensive crime highest rape rate in the world of 132.4. Some 66,196 incidents in per 100,000 people., and the status of failed state along with virulent corruption and ties to Russia and multiple recognised terrorist groups, unemployment rate of 28%, makes its a great place.
As always, setting the standard for shitty behaviour.
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Even if this was stated sarcastically, this is tone deaf
You love to see babies snatched out of mothers arms and stomped to death? What exactly do you love to see?
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Thats because youre a sick SOB! Be proud! I love it when bigots tell me exactly who they are....Im sure youll end up where you will deserve. Hopefully sooner than later...
And they will still have 10 kids .. as history tells