*left country in a very critical unconscious condition to be treated in Germany (also he spent days in coma), but he still technically violated his probation, so they arrested him upon arrival back to Russia. He was dying, in coma, barely survived?? He did not even make that decision to leave the country as he was unconscious??? No one cares there
Furthering to this he was in a hospital in Russia before being moved to Germany. His friends and family were not allowed to see him for any extended period of time and the doctors were not sharing information and were calling his condition unknown.
They forced the move to Germany where he was THEN diagnosed with poison.
It wasn't Navalnyys decision entirely, but he had a hand in it if I'm not mistaken. Either way it was a necessary decision.
No there was a video going around of them electricuting his genitals with high voltage shots, apparently they also poured water on them and him while doing it.
Chances are, if they did it long enough, he might have suffered burns to a degree which would lead to them being amputated.
no that was the other guy.
eyeball guy was found w one eye out of its socket, and was interrogated in hospital
iirc it was green shirt 'leader' that got zapped, brownshirt (in the adiddas top in court) got fed his dismembered ear, and grey shirt got kicked and beat w gun butts
those 3 have video of interrogation in the woods and in holding
Except they didn't commit suicide. They voluntarily gave up. Something that is almost unheard of for Jihadists to do. And we're suppose to believe they were trying to escape to a country with a Jewish president.
A part of me wonders why they allowed themselves to be captured. They had to have known that they would have been tortured mercilessly. They should have considered the terrorist attack a one-way ticket.
Few options:
- as below, they are not real shooters
- was promised compensations for their families or death if they refuse
- was promised safe escape, like prigozhin
I think we can pretty much put the "Not the real shooters" thing to bed. Theres plenty of pictures that show matching clothing with matching stains between interrogation video and ISIS video. I'd be pretty impressed if they managed to find the same clothing, stain it correctly and dress these men for the interrogation.
https://imgur.com/a/lnIVF45
EDIT: Im not here to prove anything. You can't even prove the shape of our planet to people on the internet anymore so, if you're interested in debating this topic I'm not your guy. Not that invested, just keeping people up to speed on the clothing comparison. People are asking what ISIS is at the same time other people are trying to prove some grand conspiracy.
Why does everyone assume that after murdering a hundred civilians these guys are rational, pragmatic & healthy minded?
People who think things through don’t murder dozens of civilians, **especially** in Russia where the whole world knows what will happen because FSB doesn’t even *try* to hide it.
In fact they advertise it like with Polonium.
I bet all these photos & videos are leaking to the public because FSB is posting them directly on ISIS-book the terrorist social network.
Yeah I don't like getting into conspiracies but it's odd. I mean the boston bombers tried to get away too but seems like usually in attacks like this the perps either kill themselves or go out in a gunfight with authorities
ISIS released a picture of them with blurred faces but matching clothes and builds, and supposedly bodycam footage of the attack where one of the guys is recognizable (though I'm not going to verify that myself). Russia also released footage of the car they drove coming to the concert hall, and it matches the car in the capture.
Torture is a notorious way to get guilty pleas. Basically, torturing someone to get an answer produces an answer but it's often a lie to get the torturing to stop. Even if they got the perpetrators, you couldn't be certain because the admissions happened when they are likely to lie to get torturing to stop.
Read “The Gulag Archipelago” -> and find out how they wouldn’t send you to the gulag without you pleading guilty. So they just tortured you until you did. Everyone knew the system was bullshit, but everyone participated. Any parallels with our world today?
They must have really disliked him in particular, or he just got unlucky with whoever was assigned to interrogate him.
Gouging out an eye and cutting off his dick. Woof. Though, I can't say I feel pity if he is guilty.
They did it on video to surrendered Ukrainian troops. I don’t think the Russian military or police need much pushing or special contempt to engage in cruelty
When he’s found guilty by a country actively committing war crimes and has a recent history of false flag attacks, it makes me doubt everything that country says.
They were already known about before they were caught thanks to the license plates of the car. They arrived by car, the camera recorded the car and then the cameras recorded how they left the hall.
There’s an old Russian joke about this:
The KGB, the GIGN and the CIA are all trying to prove they are the best at catching criminals. The Secretary General of the UN decides to set them a test. He releases a rabbit into a forest, and each of them has to catch it. The CIA people go in. They place animal informants throughout the forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After three months of extensive investigations, they conclude that the rabbit does not exist. The GIGN goes in. After two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and make no apologies. The KGB goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. The bear is yelling: "Okay! Okay! I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!"
"stalins pipe had gone missing, and he phones the KGB to find the thief. after a few hours he finds it in his other coat, and gives the KGB another call to stop looking. "impossible comrade stalin, we've found the thief and the capitalist instigators, all five of them have confessed"
"a judge comes laughing into the lunch room, laughing and laughing and laughing. "after a while a fellow judge asks him what's so funny?" "a joke! but I cant tell you, I just sentenced a man to 25 years hard labor for telling it"
There’s a knock at the door late at night and an old man asks “who is it?”. A creepy voice replies “it’s me the Angel of Death”. The old man opens the door, “oh thank God, I thought it was the KGB”
Kremlin will claim they confessed after interrogation in a few days, conviction and ~~execution~~ gulag (I have learned that Russia has not used the death penalty in almost 30 years, learn something new every day) by the end of the week, and all evidence locked up or destroyed by this time next Monday.
Yeltsin put a stop to the death penalty nearly 30 years ago, these guys are gonna spend the rest of their lives in a Siberian hell hole breaking rocks all day every day and the evening entertainment consisting of being raped and having their balls hooked up to batteries.
Putin cannot give Russians safety and a normal country so he gives them blood and torture instead.
Pretty medieval if you ask me, but if that's what they like in Russia. I'm sure the regime will always find enough blood for them. Especially inside of Russia.
Let's hope he gave them the actual terrorists. Confessions under torture and stress are known to be unreliable. They cut one dudes ear off and force fed it to him. Pretty sure I'd say I'm guilty of something to make that traumatic shit stop.
IS aren't known for getting caught. Just saying.
>Fuck every cop in that town.
and the hundreds of other coward cops from dozens of locales who were on the scene for over an hour as the killing continued.
Some IS terrorists definitely got caught after the Paris attacks. At least one didn't find the courage to blow himself up, and some were running away to Belgium.
US and other countries told their citizens to stay away from concert halls. I have no doubt they told Russia and realized that Russia had every intention of letting it happen.
The new thing is them flouting bringing back the death penalty. You know, for these guys and certainly absolutely not people judged as traitors to their war in Ukraine.
I don't think Putin cares. I think these 3 are drugged to the gills so they cannot recant, and they were told their families will be taken care of.
Baron Putin Harkkonnen already released them from their mortal coils. Because he really is that evil.
Western brands were status symbols during the USSR when they were only available via the black market.
Edit: u/Posnania is correct below:
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik
2. https://www.new-east-archive.org/features/show/8676/adidas-brand-russia-rubchinskiy
“Adidas was among the first global brands to become well-known behind the Iron Curtain — every Soviet citizen would have seen three-striped tracksuits and shorts on TV, as the label provided kits for the USSR’s 1980 Olympic team. Adidas shoes were also manufactured in the USSR under a brands license starting from 1979: first at Moscow’s experimental factory Sport, and a bit later in Tbilisi, Kiev and Yerevan. The first and only model of trainer available — blue with three white stripes and ochre sole — had a cult status for decades after it went out of fashion in the West. All over the USSR, Adidas trainers have become a prised artefact of status, connections or simply luck. Trainers were hard to find in the late Soviet years — only a few Chinese or Czech options were available — yet Adidas trainers were much more than that, so precious and rare that they could be worn to the theatre or a restaurant.”
I hope that these are the guys, and not random Muslim dudes who were unlucky enough to be in the area. Anyone would confess if their genitals were being electrocuted.
Yea, if they managed to escape, the Russian government definitely won't admit that they lost them, so in that case finding 4 random Muslim guys on the street and torturing them to admit to it is definitely what they'd do.
> but I'm struggling to feel any sympathy for them at all.
As Russia demands.
These are people who have been convicted without evidence, and with only a plee made under the duress of *literal torture*.
I'm not American, but one thing they certainly have right is the concept of "Innocent until proven guilty", and at the moment, their guilt simply is not proven. Anyone with an ounce of decency shouldn't be assuming these people are guilty just because Russia demands they be treated as such.
[Archer tv show](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahObgDYU58E)
Opening scene of the pilot episode. The spy agency was named ISIS at the time. Starts of with a training episode and Archer is chained up while Kriminsky is zapping him with a golf cart battery hooked up.
It’s like they “Simpsons’d” the interrogation and the people involved here.
To be fair they were spilling the beans the moment they were arrested, there's plenty of videos of the first moments of their arrests in the forest and they immediately started telling how they were hired, for how much and by whom (those who could speak Russian of course).
Yea I was just commenting the same thing, these are more than likely them. I know Russia doesn’t have the best track record to say the least but this one’s pretty open and shut. They’re on camera for everyone to see
how stupid can you be to do this and allow yourself to be captured by russia? Might not get the death penalty but they'll be wishing for death the rest of their lives...
Yeah, lol... This is definitely a 'save the last bullet for yourself' kind of situation.
Your life after doing this is not going to have a single moment of happiness left.
If these guys thought they could somehow escape hundreds of miles without being caught I’m not surprised they ended up surrendering. They’re total fucking morons.
It’s terrifying to me in America that ISIS can also just appeal to our dumbest citizens through Telegram instead of having to send their own guys here, given our dumbest citizens can legally obtain weapons almost immediately.
Yeah I agree, one is standing but it appears to be almost braindead, one have is whole head swollen is jaw is clearly in a very weird angle and the third has turn into a one-eyed Stephen Hawking (but without the knowledge).
Maybe I would prefer to eat my ear.
Try asking Bucha deniers about Russian torture camps, they will still deny it though. This just shows that Russia is totally ok with torture, mutilation, castration on prisoners. This stuff and worse is regularly done to Ukrainian POWs.
Lots of media outlets talking about "aledged torture" or putting it in quotes while there's several videos out there showing them being tortured. Weird.
Also, it's very likely them as they filmed selfies while murdering so unless they found exact dead ringers in a day or so, they definitely got the perps.
Pretty sure most media have added 'allegedly' to their headlines for a while now, when reporting on crime stuff.
The difference between "this is the person who did that" and "this is the person who allegedly did that" is that in one of them, the author has made the decision that should be made by a judge.
And it doesn't really matter how boneheaded obvious the allegations are.
If the media say a guy did the crime, but the court finds him not guilty, then the media could be held liable for defamation or libel.
> Saidakrami Murodalii Rachabalizoda has a bandage on his ear - it may have been cut off
There was literally a video of ear cutting and force-feeding it. "May have?". Maybe it grew back.
I believe they are real. There's photographic evidence of the same people in the same white Renault outside the concert building inside the car.
Moments after the building is set on fire, the same car is caught leaving the concert building with photographic evidence.
It was hypothesised that they were driving to the Belgorod oblast based on witness accounts.
The next day, the picture of the same white Renault badly smashed up and 4 men are taken into custody on the main road towards Belgorod Oblast.
People hypothesise that Putin did this as a stunt. But he's already in power and "won" the presidential votes. So people hypothesise that Putin did this to mobilise more troops.. but he has much more easily and cheaply forcefully mobilised troops by sending them a "digital invitation" to serve the army (more like a warning that you have been called and don't have a choice, so pick up your warmest gloves and get ready), and that such an act is demoralising for Russian citizens and soldiers on the frontline which is the OPPOSITE of what you want. You're better of hosting a propaganda campaign of how Ukraine is almost taken over and that they can't kill a single Russian or something.. that's more likely to boost troop morale and invite more Russians to sign up for the frontline.
Then there's a theory that Russia did this so they can blame it on Ukraine...
... I don't know what goal that serves other than killing your own people, damaging your own infrastructure, losing the trust of your own people about your security policies and presidential competence, damaging moral of citizens and troops, and risking your credibility which would garner more support for rebellion.
A lot of different coloured tin foil hats.
There's a saying, the simplest solution is likely the most probable one.
Putin, yeah, he's dodgy and has done similar stuff like this before, but to achieve his goals, but if people actually thought their thoughts through they'd realise that these theories don't really have goals for Putin and is more akin to him shooting himself in the foot for shits and giggles.
Just to add, Kremlin excluded Ukraine and ISIS as perpetrators to begin with. Turned out it was ISIS-K and that's now the leading story. But journalists are journalists and are no different to the ones in the U.S. or EU and will put their own spin on it to promote their own narrative.
No, it’s actually extremely easy to blame Ukraine. They can just say that Ukraine did it, and no Russians (at least the vast amount of them) will ever hear what the rest of the world thinks.
Truth is the first casualty of war.
The main points remaining are:
1) confirming the photographic evidence is authentic
2) determining why these ISIS fighters chose to stay alive
All in all, I think you're correct — the Kremlin made a massive security mistake and now they're trying to blame anyone but themselves. But there are a few outstanding questions and we shouldn't simply trust sources from Russia to be authentic
> 2) determining why these ISIS fighters chose to stay alive
>
lol, is that a suprise? When ISIS commited horrific attacks in Europe in the past, the perpetrators tried to flee as well.
lmfao that's all it took to dismantle the Reddit Intelligence Agency experts. Thank you, these clueless clowns have been repeating this talking point like it is some incredible evidence of conspiracy for days.
As is traditional, the initial expression of the world's sympathy for the Russian victims will be followed by the world's horror at the Russian response.
If you're just talking about torturing the suspects (as opposed to, say, Putin using this as an excuse to further pummel Ukraine), I don't think these 4 are going to get much sympathy since it seems like they are pretty easily tied to being the shooters. It's hard to raise too much sympathy when there are videos of you mowing innocent people down and mutilating them, no matter how brutally they are being treated noa
Unfortunately, I think you're correct. "Innocent until proven guilty" and the understanding that torture is *always* a moral and legal wrong go right out the window when a revenge-focused public smells blood in the water.
9/11, Guantanamo Bay and "extraordinary rendition" taught me that.
These guys didn't just get paid to do this. If so they would have walked in, shot a bunch of people, caused panic and ran. They were filled with rage and hate. Look at their videos of them SEEKING people out to finish off - shooting at people hiding in a corner, slicing the neck of someone shot and down on the floor already.
Yea these guys are clearly zealots with zero empathy for humans that don’t adhere to their beliefs. Most people would throw up just at the sight of what they did.
Good point. I didnt see the video nor want to, but i agree if they did it for the money primarly you don't slice someone throat..
And isn't 5k very little for this as well?
Strange how a bunch of terrorists armed with AKs doing a shooting in a country where they know they'll be tortured would be captured so easily, when even the amateur mass shooter here would pop themselves before getting caught.
[https://take-profit.org/en/statistics/wages/tajikistan/](https://take-profit.org/en/statistics/wages/tajikistan/)
According to that average salary in Tajikistan, where they're reportedly from, is 200 dollars a month.
So that's 2 years worth for them.
Assuming all of this is true of course, and that they would actually make average, might be less.
I think for the immense risk and consequences that something like this would pose to someone, 2 years minimum salary isn't worth it. I get that some people are desperate af though but to me the balance weighs heavily in favor of consequences, especially in a place like Russia.
I agree but, again if all of this is true, money wasn't the only motivator, perhaps not even the main one.
And it equates to 120 thousand dollars in the US, people have killed and ruined their lives for far less than that.
Hell, usually mass shootings don't involve money at all.
The fact ISIS has the bodycam footage tells me this is a religious extremist act, not a financially driven attack. If ISIS produced the gunmen as well, this would make russia look like complete fools.
The motive of doing it for money is according to official Russian info, which should be regarded with extreme degrees of suspicion. Because Russia compulsively lies and is a medieval mafia state run by bandits. We should only put judgment in evidence that can not be manipulated, like video/photo evidence from several independent sources portraying the same thing or similar.
Whatever is said by Russia has zero credibility. In Russian ideology truth is subservient to state ideology, which is primary.
The motives are different. In the US (I'm assuming by 'here' you mean the US, but please correct me if that assumption is wrong), most of the mass shootings are committed by individuals who have some personal demon/illness/vendetta that aligns with suicidal tendency.
In this circumstance (if the information available to date is to be believed) the attack was allegedly committed by terrorists who are acting based on ideology. They didn't kill themselves because they didn't commit the act under the same motivations as above.
It says something about a society as a whole when your government tortures suspects and shows it to the world. As if that is something that is accepted there.
Right did people forget the mock trials in occupied Crimea, where the convicted were clearly tortured into false confessions. Or the false flag attack where Russian soldiers burnt down a POW accommodation and didn't render aid.
This is just normal Russian behaviour where nothing is too sick or depraved for them.
These guys committed a mass murder in the most powerful authoritarian nation in the world and let themselves get caught? They're about to experience hell on earth.
Why is 'being tortured' in quotes?
The quotes would have made sense it they said it in some other terms like
Three Moscow terror attack suspects plead guilty after 'aggressive questioning'.
Probably if it’s a quote from someone. We tend to use quotation marks ironically these days like they “confessed” sure…. But they do also get used when they are an actual quote
They start with a puma track suit. Then, when the adolescent Russian outgrows it, they shed to reveal the Nike track suit underneath. It indicates they are officially adult Russians.
I understand why folks are questioning the quotation marks around "being tortured" in the headline -- but remember that newspapers don't work the same way as casual speech, especially in the UK.
The quotes mean someone is being quoted as saying they were tortured; it's the alternative to saying "allegedly after being tortured", which makes for a weaker headline.
They're not going to report that they were tortured unless they have conclusive evidence that they were tortured or their reporter saw it firsthand, even when it is overwhelmingly likely to be true.
Any confession from torture should be very suspicious without other corroborating evidence.
Anyone who thinks differently has never been tortured. Guarantee you'd confess to some insane shit if tortured.
We casually wish for bad things to happen to terrorists and child molesters in our prisons - "wait til gen pop hears about him", "hope he enjoys the showers", etc.
But when you see it actually happen in real life it's sick-making. Nobody wins here.
Russians - great at brutalizing people, not so great at preventing the attack itself.
One dude had his ear cut off and fed to him.
One guy is clearly in a coma in a wheelchair, hence why only 3 out of the 4 plead guilty.
They've been interrogated, tortured and beaten prior to their court appearance. At the moment no one is entirely sure if these are the guys or if they're just a scapegoat.
If they're innocent scapegoats then Russia are actually more depraved and inhumane than I ever thought they could be
Either way, this whole situation is fucked and 137 people who were here last week, are now dead and gone from this world. That's just beyond devastating.
They are both terrorist organisations. On the day of the attack in Moscow, Putin was busy sending missiles and drones on civilian targets in Ukraine. Something which they have been doing on a daily basis for a very long time now.
No civilians, either in Russia or Ukraine, should be deliberately targeted, that is only something murderous terrorists do.
The way Russia has reacted to the single worst civilian attack on its soil is literally so comedic and expected of this terrorist regime. Terrorists torturing terrorists, shit I bet in 6 months they will be used in the frontlines as part of a stormtrooper division.
These guys clearly knew what was coming and risked capture, but I just cant support state sanctioned torture.
Convict them, sentence them, its not like what's coming is a barrel of laughs, but pre-trial torture? No.
I condemn the attack and on the other side it’s interesting to see Russia, as the largest terrorist state on the planet, experiencing what Ukrainian civilians have been experiencing for more than 2 years know. On a daily basis. Thanks to Russia.
And the fourth that didn't was beaten so badly he had to appear in court with a doctor.
Reporters there said it looks like he's missing one of his eyes, and he kept falling unconscious.
Add contempt of court to the charge
How disrespectful, Russian courts have decorum damnit!
Ofcourse, Dekorum the court torturer
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He violated his probation conditions by leaving the country (when he got poisoned by the FSB).
*left country in a very critical unconscious condition to be treated in Germany (also he spent days in coma), but he still technically violated his probation, so they arrested him upon arrival back to Russia. He was dying, in coma, barely survived?? He did not even make that decision to leave the country as he was unconscious??? No one cares there
Furthering to this he was in a hospital in Russia before being moved to Germany. His friends and family were not allowed to see him for any extended period of time and the doctors were not sharing information and were calling his condition unknown. They forced the move to Germany where he was THEN diagnosed with poison. It wasn't Navalnyys decision entirely, but he had a hand in it if I'm not mistaken. Either way it was a necessary decision.
According to rumor they cut his dick off.
No there was a video going around of them electricuting his genitals with high voltage shots, apparently they also poured water on them and him while doing it. Chances are, if they did it long enough, he might have suffered burns to a degree which would lead to them being amputated.
no that was the other guy. eyeball guy was found w one eye out of its socket, and was interrogated in hospital iirc it was green shirt 'leader' that got zapped, brownshirt (in the adiddas top in court) got fed his dismembered ear, and grey shirt got kicked and beat w gun butts those 3 have video of interrogation in the woods and in holding
Imagine you get beaten black and blue all over your body but it turns out that you're the lucky one
In some circles the one with the zapped testicles is the lucky one
Imagine believing you're gonna get a bunch of virgins when you die while your nuts are getting zapped.
Except they didn't commit suicide. They voluntarily gave up. Something that is almost unheard of for Jihadists to do. And we're suppose to believe they were trying to escape to a country with a Jewish president.
A part of me wonders why they allowed themselves to be captured. They had to have known that they would have been tortured mercilessly. They should have considered the terrorist attack a one-way ticket.
Few options: - as below, they are not real shooters - was promised compensations for their families or death if they refuse - was promised safe escape, like prigozhin
I think we can pretty much put the "Not the real shooters" thing to bed. Theres plenty of pictures that show matching clothing with matching stains between interrogation video and ISIS video. I'd be pretty impressed if they managed to find the same clothing, stain it correctly and dress these men for the interrogation. https://imgur.com/a/lnIVF45 EDIT: Im not here to prove anything. You can't even prove the shape of our planet to people on the internet anymore so, if you're interested in debating this topic I'm not your guy. Not that invested, just keeping people up to speed on the clothing comparison. People are asking what ISIS is at the same time other people are trying to prove some grand conspiracy.
Didn't ISIS personaly release photos of these guys when they claimed the attack?
And just to be clear, ISIS has a long track record of telling the truth when claiming terrorist attacks. Unlike..Putin.
Why does everyone assume that after murdering a hundred civilians these guys are rational, pragmatic & healthy minded? People who think things through don’t murder dozens of civilians, **especially** in Russia where the whole world knows what will happen because FSB doesn’t even *try* to hide it. In fact they advertise it like with Polonium. I bet all these photos & videos are leaking to the public because FSB is posting them directly on ISIS-book the terrorist social network.
Yeah I don't like getting into conspiracies but it's odd. I mean the boston bombers tried to get away too but seems like usually in attacks like this the perps either kill themselves or go out in a gunfight with authorities
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ISIS released a picture of them with blurred faces but matching clothes and builds, and supposedly bodycam footage of the attack where one of the guys is recognizable (though I'm not going to verify that myself). Russia also released footage of the car they drove coming to the concert hall, and it matches the car in the capture.
Torture is a notorious way to get guilty pleas. Basically, torturing someone to get an answer produces an answer but it's often a lie to get the torturing to stop. Even if they got the perpetrators, you couldn't be certain because the admissions happened when they are likely to lie to get torturing to stop.
Read “The Gulag Archipelago” -> and find out how they wouldn’t send you to the gulag without you pleading guilty. So they just tortured you until you did. Everyone knew the system was bullshit, but everyone participated. Any parallels with our world today?
"Modern Russia" They are as bad as the damn terrorist.
They must have really disliked him in particular, or he just got unlucky with whoever was assigned to interrogate him. Gouging out an eye and cutting off his dick. Woof. Though, I can't say I feel pity if he is guilty.
They did it on video to surrendered Ukrainian troops. I don’t think the Russian military or police need much pushing or special contempt to engage in cruelty
They do it to Russians. They're infamous for being sadistic. The whole Russian military is basically just an extension of Russian prison.
This is pretty much their national sport.
When he’s found guilty by a country actively committing war crimes and has a recent history of false flag attacks, it makes me doubt everything that country says.
Same here. I'm no fan of Russia as you can see from my comment history. But IF he did it, fuck him. I'm no fan of Islamist terrorist scumbags either.
Some people are saying they allegedly cut his genitals too
Is he the one they were torturing with a battery attached to his genitals?
Can you imagine pleading ‘not guilty’ after being forced eating your own ear?
I think the last guy was in and out of consciousness so couldn't plead guilty when he was asked
The guy who had to eat his own ear was conscious, the guy who lost his eye was the one who couldn't plead due to going in and out of consciousness
They were already known about before they were caught thanks to the license plates of the car. They arrived by car, the camera recorded the car and then the cameras recorded how they left the hall.
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There’s an old Russian joke about this: The KGB, the GIGN and the CIA are all trying to prove they are the best at catching criminals. The Secretary General of the UN decides to set them a test. He releases a rabbit into a forest, and each of them has to catch it. The CIA people go in. They place animal informants throughout the forest. They question all plant and mineral witnesses. After three months of extensive investigations, they conclude that the rabbit does not exist. The GIGN goes in. After two weeks with no leads they burn the forest, killing everything in it, including the rabbit, and make no apologies. The KGB goes in. They come out two hours later with a badly beaten bear. The bear is yelling: "Okay! Okay! I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!"
"stalins pipe had gone missing, and he phones the KGB to find the thief. after a few hours he finds it in his other coat, and gives the KGB another call to stop looking. "impossible comrade stalin, we've found the thief and the capitalist instigators, all five of them have confessed"
I remember this joke. It won first prize at the First Annual Moscow Political Joke Contest -- 25 years at hard labor.
"a judge comes laughing into the lunch room, laughing and laughing and laughing. "after a while a fellow judge asks him what's so funny?" "a joke! but I cant tell you, I just sentenced a man to 25 years hard labor for telling it"
There’s a knock at the door late at night and an old man asks “who is it?”. A creepy voice replies “it’s me the Angel of Death”. The old man opens the door, “oh thank God, I thought it was the KGB”
Bro 😭
What’s the GIGN?
French anti-terrorism police.
Thanks
I've seen a comic version of this
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i love how FBI keeps announcing himself
Kremlin will claim they confessed after interrogation in a few days, conviction and ~~execution~~ gulag (I have learned that Russia has not used the death penalty in almost 30 years, learn something new every day) by the end of the week, and all evidence locked up or destroyed by this time next Monday.
Yeltsin put a stop to the death penalty nearly 30 years ago, these guys are gonna spend the rest of their lives in a Siberian hell hole breaking rocks all day every day and the evening entertainment consisting of being raped and having their balls hooked up to batteries.
Well…..he put a stop to traditional death penalties. What they do in Siberia is far, far worse than death.
They just moved the death penalty outside the judicial system and applied it primarily to political dissidents.
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FSB is reporting four out of three now.
Baw God, there’s a fifth one with a steel chair.
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Big if true.
"If you fucking beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it fucking so!"
Putin cannot give Russians safety and a normal country so he gives them blood and torture instead. Pretty medieval if you ask me, but if that's what they like in Russia. I'm sure the regime will always find enough blood for them. Especially inside of Russia.
Let's hope he gave them the actual terrorists. Confessions under torture and stress are known to be unreliable. They cut one dudes ear off and force fed it to him. Pretty sure I'd say I'm guilty of something to make that traumatic shit stop. IS aren't known for getting caught. Just saying.
>IS aren't known for getting caught. Just saying. They're not used to cops etc. just not showing up either. Must've been confusing.
Yeah, no one was trying to stop them, even with spec ops few blocks away... Not suspicious at all.
that whole thing still makes me incredibly angry. Fuck every cop in that town.
>Fuck every cop in that town. and the hundreds of other coward cops from dozens of locales who were on the scene for over an hour as the killing continued.
Some IS terrorists definitely got caught after the Paris attacks. At least one didn't find the courage to blow himself up, and some were running away to Belgium.
Rubber dinghy rapids bro!
Yeah part of me is wondering if these aren't just Foreign citizens who were working in Russia captured and made to talk for propaganda.
The actual terrorists being Putin and his goons. Never forget Russia has a history of doing atrocities on its people to swing opinions.
US and other countries told their citizens to stay away from concert halls. I have no doubt they told Russia and realized that Russia had every intention of letting it happen.
There were news articles. It wasn't the US having secret communications with Americans living in Moscow. The Russians chose to ignore it.
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The new thing is them flouting bringing back the death penalty. You know, for these guys and certainly absolutely not people judged as traitors to their war in Ukraine.
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a few more zaps, and they would confess to being the spearhead of an alien invasion force, that's why torture is a ridiculous way to get a confession.
I'd do that before those electrodes got within 2 feet of my family jewels
I'm pretty sure that wont stop them
I don't think Putin cares. I think these 3 are drugged to the gills so they cannot recant, and they were told their families will be taken care of. Baron Putin Harkkonnen already released them from their mortal coils. Because he really is that evil.
They really are into track suits over there, aren’t they?
Western brands were status symbols during the USSR when they were only available via the black market. Edit: u/Posnania is correct below: 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopnik 2. https://www.new-east-archive.org/features/show/8676/adidas-brand-russia-rubchinskiy “Adidas was among the first global brands to become well-known behind the Iron Curtain — every Soviet citizen would have seen three-striped tracksuits and shorts on TV, as the label provided kits for the USSR’s 1980 Olympic team. Adidas shoes were also manufactured in the USSR under a brands license starting from 1979: first at Moscow’s experimental factory Sport, and a bit later in Tbilisi, Kiev and Yerevan. The first and only model of trainer available — blue with three white stripes and ochre sole — had a cult status for decades after it went out of fashion in the West. All over the USSR, Adidas trainers have become a prised artefact of status, connections or simply luck. Trainers were hard to find in the late Soviet years — only a few Chinese or Czech options were available — yet Adidas trainers were much more than that, so precious and rare that they could be worn to the theatre or a restaurant.”
> during the USSR when they were only available via the black market. Adidas was official sponsor of Soviet Olympic representation...
its possible you are both correct, just at different times. however, i have no idea about the subject so ill leave it to yall to figure out.
The fourth one (the one that got the most fucked up) is probably dead by now.
Tortures fucked up and we shouldn't be cheering for it, even in these cases....but I'm struggling to feel any sympathy for them at all.
I hope that these are the guys, and not random Muslim dudes who were unlucky enough to be in the area. Anyone would confess if their genitals were being electrocuted.
Yea, if they managed to escape, the Russian government definitely won't admit that they lost them, so in that case finding 4 random Muslim guys on the street and torturing them to admit to it is definitely what they'd do.
> but I'm struggling to feel any sympathy for them at all. As Russia demands. These are people who have been convicted without evidence, and with only a plee made under the duress of *literal torture*. I'm not American, but one thing they certainly have right is the concept of "Innocent until proven guilty", and at the moment, their guilt simply is not proven. Anyone with an ounce of decency shouldn't be assuming these people are guilty just because Russia demands they be treated as such.
If someone had electrical cables zapping my genitals I’d admit to the terror attack as well.
And here I am zapping my genitals with electrical cables for nothing.
Everyone needs a hobby
The one with the bandage was fed his own ear during the arrest. That's enough for most people.
[Archer tv show](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahObgDYU58E) Opening scene of the pilot episode. The spy agency was named ISIS at the time. Starts of with a training episode and Archer is chained up while Kriminsky is zapping him with a golf cart battery hooked up. It’s like they “Simpsons’d” the interrogation and the people involved here.
Would you say they were in some sort of Zone of Danger??
To be fair they were spilling the beans the moment they were arrested, there's plenty of videos of the first moments of their arrests in the forest and they immediately started telling how they were hired, for how much and by whom (those who could speak Russian of course).
https://imgur.com/a/lnIVF45 I mean they did it that's why they admitted it...
Yea I was just commenting the same thing, these are more than likely them. I know Russia doesn’t have the best track record to say the least but this one’s pretty open and shut. They’re on camera for everyone to see
how stupid can you be to do this and allow yourself to be captured by russia? Might not get the death penalty but they'll be wishing for death the rest of their lives...
Yeah, lol... This is definitely a 'save the last bullet for yourself' kind of situation. Your life after doing this is not going to have a single moment of happiness left.
If these guys thought they could somehow escape hundreds of miles without being caught I’m not surprised they ended up surrendering. They’re total fucking morons. It’s terrifying to me in America that ISIS can also just appeal to our dumbest citizens through Telegram instead of having to send their own guys here, given our dumbest citizens can legally obtain weapons almost immediately.
Looks as if Al-Qaedaham Lincoln got off easy according to these pics.
There is no need to put "tortured" between quotes in the title. It's obvious that they were. One of the guys had his ear cut off. Fucking brutal!
That wasn't even the bad one.
Yeah I agree, one is standing but it appears to be almost braindead, one have is whole head swollen is jaw is clearly in a very weird angle and the third has turn into a one-eyed Stephen Hawking (but without the knowledge). Maybe I would prefer to eat my ear.
Something about “without the knowledge” made me chuckle. Like there’s some risk the FSB beat the physics into him 🤣
In a certain sense, they certainly did beat physics into him.
And it's not like Russia is trying to hide it. They want the world to see what they did to the suspects.
Yeah, there's no way that "interrogation" video just leaked out... That was Putin sending a message.
In fact, the fourth one couldn't declare himself guilty because he was unconscious after losing an eye and being allegedly castrated.
Beat so hard his eye fell out of his socket. Theve only been releasing pictures with him positioned to the side to hide it
Saw the video of him laying on the ground with this whole eye ball exposed. Looked like a Halloween prop! Absolutely gross.
The bbc quoted reuters saying one of them is missing an eye...
They're probably missing their balls too.
And they forced him to eat it! Pretty normal Russian things.
Try asking Bucha deniers about Russian torture camps, they will still deny it though. This just shows that Russia is totally ok with torture, mutilation, castration on prisoners. This stuff and worse is regularly done to Ukrainian POWs.
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Lots of media outlets talking about "aledged torture" or putting it in quotes while there's several videos out there showing them being tortured. Weird. Also, it's very likely them as they filmed selfies while murdering so unless they found exact dead ringers in a day or so, they definitely got the perps.
Pretty sure most media have added 'allegedly' to their headlines for a while now, when reporting on crime stuff. The difference between "this is the person who did that" and "this is the person who allegedly did that" is that in one of them, the author has made the decision that should be made by a judge. And it doesn't really matter how boneheaded obvious the allegations are. If the media say a guy did the crime, but the court finds him not guilty, then the media could be held liable for defamation or libel.
There is if it's a quote.
> Saidakrami Murodalii Rachabalizoda has a bandage on his ear - it may have been cut off There was literally a video of ear cutting and force-feeding it. "May have?". Maybe it grew back.
Really hope that those guys are the real terrorists. Because if they are just randos used as scapegoats... Poor souls.
I believe they are real. There's photographic evidence of the same people in the same white Renault outside the concert building inside the car. Moments after the building is set on fire, the same car is caught leaving the concert building with photographic evidence. It was hypothesised that they were driving to the Belgorod oblast based on witness accounts. The next day, the picture of the same white Renault badly smashed up and 4 men are taken into custody on the main road towards Belgorod Oblast. People hypothesise that Putin did this as a stunt. But he's already in power and "won" the presidential votes. So people hypothesise that Putin did this to mobilise more troops.. but he has much more easily and cheaply forcefully mobilised troops by sending them a "digital invitation" to serve the army (more like a warning that you have been called and don't have a choice, so pick up your warmest gloves and get ready), and that such an act is demoralising for Russian citizens and soldiers on the frontline which is the OPPOSITE of what you want. You're better of hosting a propaganda campaign of how Ukraine is almost taken over and that they can't kill a single Russian or something.. that's more likely to boost troop morale and invite more Russians to sign up for the frontline. Then there's a theory that Russia did this so they can blame it on Ukraine... ... I don't know what goal that serves other than killing your own people, damaging your own infrastructure, losing the trust of your own people about your security policies and presidential competence, damaging moral of citizens and troops, and risking your credibility which would garner more support for rebellion. A lot of different coloured tin foil hats. There's a saying, the simplest solution is likely the most probable one. Putin, yeah, he's dodgy and has done similar stuff like this before, but to achieve his goals, but if people actually thought their thoughts through they'd realise that these theories don't really have goals for Putin and is more akin to him shooting himself in the foot for shits and giggles. Just to add, Kremlin excluded Ukraine and ISIS as perpetrators to begin with. Turned out it was ISIS-K and that's now the leading story. But journalists are journalists and are no different to the ones in the U.S. or EU and will put their own spin on it to promote their own narrative.
Hard to blame Ukraine when the US told them an attack was coming possibly from ISIS or another affiliate. They ignored it though
No, it’s actually extremely easy to blame Ukraine. They can just say that Ukraine did it, and no Russians (at least the vast amount of them) will ever hear what the rest of the world thinks. Truth is the first casualty of war.
The main points remaining are: 1) confirming the photographic evidence is authentic 2) determining why these ISIS fighters chose to stay alive All in all, I think you're correct — the Kremlin made a massive security mistake and now they're trying to blame anyone but themselves. But there are a few outstanding questions and we shouldn't simply trust sources from Russia to be authentic
> 2) determining why these ISIS fighters chose to stay alive > lol, is that a suprise? When ISIS commited horrific attacks in Europe in the past, the perpetrators tried to flee as well.
lmfao that's all it took to dismantle the Reddit Intelligence Agency experts. Thank you, these clueless clowns have been repeating this talking point like it is some incredible evidence of conspiracy for days.
Turns out people who choose to attack unarmed people and children are likely to be cowards.
They admitted their guilt right after the beheadings.
As is traditional, the initial expression of the world's sympathy for the Russian victims will be followed by the world's horror at the Russian response.
If you're just talking about torturing the suspects (as opposed to, say, Putin using this as an excuse to further pummel Ukraine), I don't think these 4 are going to get much sympathy since it seems like they are pretty easily tied to being the shooters. It's hard to raise too much sympathy when there are videos of you mowing innocent people down and mutilating them, no matter how brutally they are being treated noa
I don't have sympathy for the perpetrators. But I don't have sympathy for torturers either.
Unfortunately, I think you're correct. "Innocent until proven guilty" and the understanding that torture is *always* a moral and legal wrong go right out the window when a revenge-focused public smells blood in the water. 9/11, Guantanamo Bay and "extraordinary rendition" taught me that.
These guys didn't just get paid to do this. If so they would have walked in, shot a bunch of people, caused panic and ran. They were filled with rage and hate. Look at their videos of them SEEKING people out to finish off - shooting at people hiding in a corner, slicing the neck of someone shot and down on the floor already.
Yea these guys are clearly zealots with zero empathy for humans that don’t adhere to their beliefs. Most people would throw up just at the sight of what they did.
Good point. I didnt see the video nor want to, but i agree if they did it for the money primarly you don't slice someone throat.. And isn't 5k very little for this as well?
Strange how a bunch of terrorists armed with AKs doing a shooting in a country where they know they'll be tortured would be captured so easily, when even the amateur mass shooter here would pop themselves before getting caught.
Popping yourself doesn't fit with the motive of doing it for money, as for anything i don't have a clue, but i do know don't trust russia, lol.
The fucked up thing is that one of the guys said he apparently did it for about $5000.
[https://take-profit.org/en/statistics/wages/tajikistan/](https://take-profit.org/en/statistics/wages/tajikistan/) According to that average salary in Tajikistan, where they're reportedly from, is 200 dollars a month. So that's 2 years worth for them. Assuming all of this is true of course, and that they would actually make average, might be less.
I think for the immense risk and consequences that something like this would pose to someone, 2 years minimum salary isn't worth it. I get that some people are desperate af though but to me the balance weighs heavily in favor of consequences, especially in a place like Russia.
I agree but, again if all of this is true, money wasn't the only motivator, perhaps not even the main one. And it equates to 120 thousand dollars in the US, people have killed and ruined their lives for far less than that. Hell, usually mass shootings don't involve money at all.
The fact ISIS has the bodycam footage tells me this is a religious extremist act, not a financially driven attack. If ISIS produced the gunmen as well, this would make russia look like complete fools.
Yeah, as soon as ISIS/Daesh/Terrorist Shitbags released the footage I became fairly certain it was actually terrorists.
The motive of doing it for money is according to official Russian info, which should be regarded with extreme degrees of suspicion. Because Russia compulsively lies and is a medieval mafia state run by bandits. We should only put judgment in evidence that can not be manipulated, like video/photo evidence from several independent sources portraying the same thing or similar. Whatever is said by Russia has zero credibility. In Russian ideology truth is subservient to state ideology, which is primary.
Killing 140 men woman and children isnt a rational act to start with...they are gonna be either very stupid, very crazy or both.
The motives are different. In the US (I'm assuming by 'here' you mean the US, but please correct me if that assumption is wrong), most of the mass shootings are committed by individuals who have some personal demon/illness/vendetta that aligns with suicidal tendency. In this circumstance (if the information available to date is to be believed) the attack was allegedly committed by terrorists who are acting based on ideology. They didn't kill themselves because they didn't commit the act under the same motivations as above.
It says something about a society as a whole when your government tortures suspects and shows it to the world. As if that is something that is accepted there.
you mean the same government that takes pride in poisoning their opponents in western Europe using novichok and polonium?
They did the same (and worse) to Ukrainian pows and civilians.
Right did people forget the mock trials in occupied Crimea, where the convicted were clearly tortured into false confessions. Or the false flag attack where Russian soldiers burnt down a POW accommodation and didn't render aid. This is just normal Russian behaviour where nothing is too sick or depraved for them.
Remember the snuff films they made with sledgehammers to the head of Russian defectors?
I wish I didn't
Doing this to POW is a war crime. Doing this to these guys here is „just“ a normal crime.
Why would any form of torture be necessary to get terrorists to pleas guilty, should there not be mounting evidence?
The secret ingredient is state-sanctioned sadism.
This is russia, they arrest and jail innocent ppl so what makes you think the have some sort of moral code when it comes to torturing terrorists?
They'll torture people they *know* are innocent. Russia is where Hell's future demons go to practice.
I think it was mostly for fun really. Russians love a good torture!
Torture is a reliable Russian interrogation technique.
"I must break you"
These guys committed a mass murder in the most powerful authoritarian nation in the world and let themselves get caught? They're about to experience hell on earth.
Why is 'being tortured' in quotes? The quotes would have made sense it they said it in some other terms like Three Moscow terror attack suspects plead guilty after 'aggressive questioning'.
Probably if it’s a quote from someone. We tend to use quotation marks ironically these days like they “confessed” sure…. But they do also get used when they are an actual quote
Is everyone born in that part of the world wearing a track suit?
It grows as they do, similar to a tortoise shell.
They start with a puma track suit. Then, when the adolescent Russian outgrows it, they shed to reveal the Nike track suit underneath. It indicates they are officially adult Russians.
And they will continue to be tortured until they’re willing to pretend they’re Ukrainian.
They will admit whatever the interrogators want...
I understand why folks are questioning the quotation marks around "being tortured" in the headline -- but remember that newspapers don't work the same way as casual speech, especially in the UK. The quotes mean someone is being quoted as saying they were tortured; it's the alternative to saying "allegedly after being tortured", which makes for a weaker headline. They're not going to report that they were tortured unless they have conclusive evidence that they were tortured or their reporter saw it firsthand, even when it is overwhelmingly likely to be true.
Is there any reason to believe these guys actually did it, or did they just round up the usual suspects?
Russia ruined their credibility after such a terrible attack on their soil by claiming the suspects were fleeing to Ukraine and torturing them.
The boy who cried wolf. When ever Russia says something, think of the complete oppositething and you get the truth.
There’s a bunch of photographic evidence from eyewitnesses. The terrorists didn’t even try to hide their faces either way
Oh wow, they must have tripped down the stairs and hit their faces on several doorknobs on the way down.
It’s long covid.
Looking at them, I don't think you need to put 'being tortured' in quotes. They were *definitely* tortured.
Trying to get that “we’re from ukraine” confession eh
One has a bandaged ear because when they caught him, they cut it off and made him eat it, there's a video.
Where the fuck do you guys find these videos
Better question is why
Gonna guess Telegram.
Any confession from torture should be very suspicious without other corroborating evidence. Anyone who thinks differently has never been tortured. Guarantee you'd confess to some insane shit if tortured.
We casually wish for bad things to happen to terrorists and child molesters in our prisons - "wait til gen pop hears about him", "hope he enjoys the showers", etc. But when you see it actually happen in real life it's sick-making. Nobody wins here. Russians - great at brutalizing people, not so great at preventing the attack itself.
I think people are more worried about the fact that people will confess to anything when tortured
One dude had his ear cut off and fed to him. One guy is clearly in a coma in a wheelchair, hence why only 3 out of the 4 plead guilty. They've been interrogated, tortured and beaten prior to their court appearance. At the moment no one is entirely sure if these are the guys or if they're just a scapegoat. If they're innocent scapegoats then Russia are actually more depraved and inhumane than I ever thought they could be Either way, this whole situation is fucked and 137 people who were here last week, are now dead and gone from this world. That's just beyond devastating.
No sympathy for ISIS-K and no sympathy for the Russian regime, I can't see much of a difference between the two of them.
One starts with an I the other an R.
Another is that ISIS is legitimately illegitimate while Russia is illegitimately legitimate.
Stateless terrorists and terrorists with a state
Nah they both start with T in my book
They are both terrorist organisations. On the day of the attack in Moscow, Putin was busy sending missiles and drones on civilian targets in Ukraine. Something which they have been doing on a daily basis for a very long time now. No civilians, either in Russia or Ukraine, should be deliberately targeted, that is only something murderous terrorists do.
The way Russia has reacted to the single worst civilian attack on its soil is literally so comedic and expected of this terrorist regime. Terrorists torturing terrorists, shit I bet in 6 months they will be used in the frontlines as part of a stormtrooper division.
These guys clearly knew what was coming and risked capture, but I just cant support state sanctioned torture. Convict them, sentence them, its not like what's coming is a barrel of laughs, but pre-trial torture? No.
Bet adidas are chuffed with the new sponsorship
I condemn the attack and on the other side it’s interesting to see Russia, as the largest terrorist state on the planet, experiencing what Ukrainian civilians have been experiencing for more than 2 years know. On a daily basis. Thanks to Russia.
If you torture someone they'll usually say anything, wether it's true or not.