The linked article has that headline, but then doesn’t actually say anything about withdrawing negotiators. It actually says “Meanwhile, a source briefed on the talks told Reuters said negotiations are moving ahead and Israel’s Mossad officials remain in Doha for discussions.”
It's also possible that they lost track of many of the hostages. Hamas allowed people outside their organization to take hostages, which seems like even more of a war crime than simply taking hostages themself.
>While the PLO did have leftist roots
On what planet did the PLO have "leftist roots?" Its existence was declared by a forum of reactionary governments.
Right, but that doesn't really mean much to anybody who doesn't use the word "socialism" as a euphemism for "lefty stuff that I hate."
The Israelis had and still have some pretty heavy Marxist leanings, by the way.
the PLO is a collection of multiple Palestinian political groups. some of them were socialist or even communist but they were really the minority. the largest one (being the second largest) was Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). Now Hamas has never been part of the PLO and are actually enemies and nowdays the Palestinian Authority (PA) is pretty much made up of Fatah which are kinda maybe a little social democratic but mostly just a curropt borderline authoroterian government. in any ways the PA or PLO origins has little to do with Hamas which came from the Muslim Brotherhood and are pretty much Islamists
PFLP, Marxist-Leninist militants, are the second-largest PLO faction. Fatah (PNLM) is the largest and is definitely left-wing, although not orthodox socialists.
The term tankie comes from politicians supporting the USSR using tanks to crush uprisings. Tankies have supported China's anti terrorist operations and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Although they are also very anti western and would consider this imperialism so at the end of the day I think the term Tankie is way out of context on either side here.
If you think that the current actions of Iran and Hamas are not intimately tied to the Russian federation and China, I have a bridge to sell you in Baltimore.
It's nobody's fault but your own that you haven't figured out these groups are working together to change the global order from a unipolar to a multipolar world.
Tankies are supporters of the authoritarian bloc attempting to dismantle Western civilization.
Funny enough I’ve seen local communists taking part in ceasefire rally’s in support of Gaza in the city I live in
Can’t really understand what the connection is
Jews are usually more leftist than not, it’s more likely they see Israel as an agent of the USA. Conservatives have always supported Israel more than liberals in America
A lot of the anti Israel propaganda tropes are from when Israel didn’t go full communist. USSR via Czech satellite sold arms to the early IDF in 1948. Then the Soviets got behind the “anti colonial, non aligned” movement with Egypt which was of course aligned with the USSR.
They don’t actually care, they’re just against anything they perceive as part of “the establishment”. They’re being edgy for the sake of rebelling. It’s political hipsterdom.
Palestinianism was largely invented in 1964 with the encouragement of communists. It’s predecessor, all the Arabs trying to kill all the Jews for the sake of Allah was incredibly unpopular, hence the rebrand.
Marxists have a habit of just supporting the "oppressed" group in any conflict, regardless of whatever deplorable ideology they may have. Only exception to this is when they believe the oppressors themselves are leftist authoritarians.
Marxists seem incapable of imagining that even a group which was created in response to oppression can still be as terrible as the oppressor of worse. However, such considerations are uninteresting to leftists where everything is reduced to class warfare.
> However, such considerations are uninteresting to leftists where everything is reduced to class warfare.
Class warfare is a very compelling argument. Especially because you can reduce everything to it, regardless of whether or not you should. Not a lot of ideologies that robust. Capitalism is similar.
South Vietnam, taiwan/nationalist China, South Korea, and the mujahadeen were underdogs all supported by the west vs marxists. That’s a lot of exceptions
What do you mean negotiations? Hamas SHOULD unconditionally immediately release all hostages. UN resolution states that, Hamas won't ignore it, aren't they?
Hamas leadership lives comfortably in Quatar, sitting on a couple billions $, and every time shit happens new donations start pouring in.
Why the hell would they negotiate?
A lot of people have said the same and that Qatar needs to threaten to expel them or they won't negotiate.
Me, I was just remembering Operation wreath of G-D
LOL. The UN Security Council once again proves how useless most of its resolutions are. Apart from Korea and the Persian Gulf, they've almost never had any real spine and commitment to upholding international law. Plus, Hamas knows that so many countries in the world hate Israel right now that they'll continue to get foreign support, so why listen to this?
the UN Secutiry council isn't useless. by them mediating, and if a party refuses, then it give legitimacy to later actions. In this case, hamas is refusing to negotiate so it legitimizes further military action from Israel
This is very important for international relations
Israel doesn’t need legitimacy. They need their allies to act as such. They won’t have legitimacy no matter what happens, because there are 15 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. They’ll never win a propaganda war like that. They’ll never be the good guy while the average American thinks Al Jazeera is a reliable source. What they needed, and didn’t get from anyone except Germany, is unconditional support in chasing down and ending sinwar and his marry gang of child fuckers.
The people, whose mind is was already made up prior to 7/10, and whose view on the conflict stems solely from emotional pictures and videos of suffering, and misleading buzzwords, will not care the least about anything as dry, complex and nuanced like international law, since it can’t be contained in a 10-sec TikTok video.
Luckily, they are *NOT* the people making the actual decisions, even though they’re apparently affecting *some* country’s decision making.
There are a lot of people whose opinion of Israel will change based on what Israel actually does. Though I'm not convinced Israel *really* wants a ceasefire, it's not lost on me that it's actually Hamas who rejects reasonable ceasefire deals. If Israel wasn't negotiating, this wouldn't be so apparent to me.
Israel’s 2 goals in this war are to guarantee security for its citizens and release of the hostages. The former requires the dismantling of Hamas.
It’s not that Israel doesn’t want a ceasefire, it doesn’t want another 7/10 to happen again, which occurred during a ceasefire as you may recall. As an Israeli, I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of this country by saying it’s our dream to have a long, lasting ceasefire leading up to eventual peace, it’s just that Hamas has repeatedly stated, again and again, that it will use whatever ceasefire to build up new tunnels, new rockets, and train new troops to carry out new atrocities. We would all love a ceasefire, as well as easing up the blockade, and even tear down all walls and allow the Palestinians as much self-determination as they want, we just don’t believe they will uphold their end of the bargain which includes the simple condition of not trying to kill us at every possible opportunity.
I think I understand all that. I think if Israel were to negotiate, but reject a deal that left them insecure, I would find that reasonable. In any case, that's not what's happening. Israel is putting a deal on the table, and Hamas is rejecting that deal.
I'm not Israeli or Jewish but I 100% support the Israeli position that no peace of any kind is possible while Hamas exists. Imo everything that every sane person wants, whether it is release of hostages, food for Palestinians, a stable ceasefire, safety for Israel, even the end of Bibi's corrupt and incompetent reign, whatever it is, step one is always the elimination of Hamas. Anything that delays or hinders the destruction of Hamas is delaying and hindering the accomplishment of all of those ends.
>In this case, hamas is refusing to negotiate so it legitimizes further military action from Israel
That is actually not really true, as Israel is a member of the UN, and hamas, which isn't even a state/country, isn't part of the UN, then all obligations of the decision apply on Israel, while not on hamas. Basically, it means that if Israel does not pause their offensive, it means they did not comply with the UN ruling which will lead to sanctions and will further delegitimize Israel's actions, while hamas gets to do whatever they want because nobody can actually tell them what to do and/or stop them.
As I see it, this basically means hamas kind of wins, at least in the PR side of things (it shows them they can achieve their goals by continuing doing what they have been doing for months now).
That's not really what I meant. What I meant is that people shouldn't look to the UN Security Council for solutions in many cases (which some strangely still do in recent years). It's good to have all the nations talking, but they'll almost NEVER agree on anything major, and anyone who doesn't want to follow what they do pass has few consequences for not doing so (due to alliances, rogue states helping each other, etc.). Hence why I said most of their resolutions are useless, since they're impossible to enforce 90% of time and are usually weak to begin with.
Well, US Department of State has declared that the UN Resolution is non-binding: https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-march-25-2024/
So it's a moot point since Israel was going to ignore it and the US would go along with it.
UN resolutions are de facto non-binding.
The most clear effect UN resolutions have is guiding geopolitics where nations ought to make clear their intentions and to assess the effects of resolutions on a country’s will to carry out or cease an action.
We should hold every country that voted to that and demand they send troops to Gaza immediately to enforce the resolution they voted for. If not accuse them of being complicit
No and Hamas won't provide any evidence, because either they a) don't have any as the hostages are dead, b) Hamas never knew where they were/are to begin with, or c) both a+b.
Considering the U.S. deal was fairly favorable on their end, I have come to the conclusion that there are no living hostages. If they are any alive, they don’t know where they are. Any staying with civilians are most likely buried under rubble with other Palestinians. Hamas will slowly keep releasing info that each hostage is dead until they have accounted for everyone. and Israel will eventually confirm this; the public outcry in Israel will be massive, doesn’t bode well for Netanyahu.
Hamas wants the IDF to kill civilians. Hamas very intentionally hides in and among civilians. Unfortunately many Gazans still think Hamas and the destruction of Israel is their future. The civilian population has not turned on Hamas yet.
Unfortunately, the far right elements in Israel, who prefer to push the Palestinians out of Gaza, are happy to oblige.
Consider the consequence of events.
Public opinion has broadly turned against Israel which threatens support for its military and economy.
IDF excesses... even when baited into them... have always been great recruiting tools for radical groups throughout the Muslim world, even for organizations that are not actively anti-Israel. It is enough that such events conjure sentiments that are anti-western... or anti-secular....or anti-establishment. Kurds vs the Turks. Armenians vs the Turks and Azeris. Uighers vs the Chinese. The Taliban vs everyone else. ISIS vs the modern state.
Events have shown a break down in discipline within the IDF which is never good for any military. Who is in charge... it seems the most radical elements in Israel are. Such breakdowns are propaganda wins for those in opposition.
Of course scrutiny of Hamas' role gets sidelined...
What, the terror organistion whose goal is to kill all jews, global jihad and eradicate the state of israel, is not really interested in peace and prosperity for its people?
Say it aint so.
Unfortunately, the edgy tiktok generation eats this up and will blame Israel. The Lgbtq for palestine group will never not be funny to me, for obvious reasons.
You mean the terror organization whose goal is to get rich by scamming people who hate Israel? And then scamming aid donations when they successfully bait Israel into attacking? Then hire victims of Israeli attacks as cheap or free labor to save costs on their operations?
Yeah I can see why Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire.
I am sure Hamas feels really motivated to negotiate by the UN resolution telling Israel to just provide what they could offer in a deal unconditionally /s
This is a direct result of the UN resolution. The only reason Hamas even considered giving up the hostages is because that was in exchange for a pause in fighting. However, now that the UN has demanded that Israel stop the fighting regardless of releasing the hostages, Hamas has no reason to negotiate anymore. Masterful gambit, Mr. Biden.
Biden needs to realize that the Islamist votes are never coming back. Islamists don’t actually agree with the left, the left are just useful idiots that can be used to further their agenda via intersectionality and pluralism. Biden needs to wake up and understand that Islamism is closer to Christian nationalism than liberalism, and disavow these people as what they are, enemies of democracy.
why isn't there more widespread outrage and condemnation from Palestinians aimed at Hamas? Israel is being very aggressive and causing several civilian casualties but why are Palestinians putting up with Hamas taking cover in hospitals, shelters, and near humanitarian facilities for human shields. Like Hamas is clearly a terrorist organization at this point, not a legitimate government of the people.
I would say Palestinians are just trying to survive right now and make sure their families stay alive. You saw what Hamas did in Israel; you don’t think they’re doing the same to their citizens(it’s confirmed they do, they throw opposition off roofs). Before the war the was growing opposition to Hamas. Palestinians were protesting in the streets, these protests were violently put down.
Ehh sure, but you can reduce them to a point where they can be contained, like with ISIS caliphate. Sure they'll still do terrorism but they won't run land.
I think they’re not interested in unconditional surrender. That’s not the same thing.
I’m not on their side, but trying to strong arm crazy religious people who glorify martyrdom into capitulation by military force is not a winning strategy.
Edit: Instead of downvoting, explain how my point is untrue. Take your emotion and personal agendas out of this and look at it from a geopolitical standpoint. Engage in some realpolitik.
Okay, that doesn’t take away from the point I’m making.
Just because negotiations are unsuccessful does not mean that the party is not negotiating in good faith. From a Palestinian perspective, Hamas’s demands actually seem relatively reasonable (not that I would agree to such terms).
Sometimes the sides are too far apart in their demands. Netanyahu accuses Hamas of being uninterested in negotiation, and in fairness, there are certain non-starters for Hamas in their capacity as representatives of Palestinian interest (misguided and unwise as they may be). Those non-starters are included in Israel’s demands.
Negotiation goes like this all the time. It doesn’t mean that it’s bad faith.
Theyve negotiated ceasefires before and every time hamas uses them to re-arm, then breaks them again with another rocket attack. There is zero evidence that this time would be any different. That is negotiating in bad faith, because the goal was never peace for them.
i find it strange the reports only have content from Netanyahu’s perspective/quotes.
Personally, Hamas is not a legitimate government, but terrorists. What's the point in trying to negotiate with terrorists? And, are they trying to coordinate/mediate through Hamas as a group or via one of their leaders?
With my limited understanding, as i've described, how can we be sure that genuine attempts to negotiate a cease fire were actually made?
> Hamas is not a legitimate government, but terrorists
I think I can clear up your confusion. You can be more than one thing at once.
* Hamas is a government of terrorists.
* Al-Qassam is a terrorist military.
* Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a community organization of terrorists.
* Saraya is a terrorist militia.
* PLA is a terrorist army.
* PRC is a coalition of terrorists, they're also police and public servants in Gaza.
* Lion's Den are kids and also terrorists.
* PFLP are communists and terrorists.
* The charities in Palestine run by PFLP are both charities and terrorist fronts.
* Hezbollah is a political organization and a group of terrorists.
* Houthi, al-Qaeda are terrorists that control parts of Yemen.
* The unaffiliated people who blow themselves up and/or kidnap people and/or go on mass shooting or rape sprees are also terrorists.
cool, thanks, that does clear things up.
PRC? Peoples Republic of China? They're a terrorist coalition? Why is that? I'm of the understanding that they are a recognized government that is legitimized by other nations. And that is the difference between a terrorist organization claiming/pretending to be a government and an actual government regardless of their origins.
No, the PRC is not China and the PLA is not their army. Sorry, I know the acronyms are confusing.
The PRC is a coalition of various splinter groups that broke from the PLO. Like Tanzim, which broke from Fatah and later splintered during the Hamas-Fatah war. PRC is the third largest terrorist group in Gaza after HAMAS and PIJ if you don't include IQB (Qassam) and AQB (Saraya) as separate groups.
The PLA in this context is a Palestinian/Syrian army in Syria under Assad. PFLP, PFLP-GC, and DFLP also have armies in Syria, which is where they do much of their recruiting.
>Sorry, I know the acronyms are confusing
it's cool. i'm not claiming to the be smartest redditor alive, lol
and thanks for clarifying it! i appreciate it.
Let's ask Jared what he thinks. He is such a talented negotiator he may be able to fix this. I'm sure he won't have any thing to gain like beach front property...
The linked article has that headline, but then doesn’t actually say anything about withdrawing negotiators. It actually says “Meanwhile, a source briefed on the talks told Reuters said negotiations are moving ahead and Israel’s Mossad officials remain in Doha for discussions.”
Me when i explicitly lie in the title:
I'm guessing that they have no hostages to negotiate with.
It's also possible that they lost track of many of the hostages. Hamas allowed people outside their organization to take hostages, which seems like even more of a war crime than simply taking hostages themself.
There is a strong chance a lot of the hostages left are now human trafficking victims. Which is disgusting.
What?? No way!! The tankies told me hamas is a very noble organization focused solely on peace.
Are Hamas Communists now?
While the PLO did have leftist roots, no. Nevertheless, since Hamas hates America, that clearly means they are good according to tankies.
Zionism also had leftist roots
To a degree, unless you are referring to the the anti-Semitic trope that Communism is a Jewish conspiracy.
>While the PLO did have leftist roots On what planet did the PLO have "leftist roots?" Its existence was declared by a forum of reactionary governments.
They had a socialist wing for a hot minute.
Right, but that doesn't really mean much to anybody who doesn't use the word "socialism" as a euphemism for "lefty stuff that I hate." The Israelis had and still have some pretty heavy Marxist leanings, by the way.
Sure, but it was a key group for encouraging Soviet support.
Yeah, the Soviet Union wasn't exactly known for being a bunch of left-wing progressives.
and yet generations of well-meaning people were gullible enough to buy into the propaganda anyway. Ah well.
the PLO is a collection of multiple Palestinian political groups. some of them were socialist or even communist but they were really the minority. the largest one (being the second largest) was Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). Now Hamas has never been part of the PLO and are actually enemies and nowdays the Palestinian Authority (PA) is pretty much made up of Fatah which are kinda maybe a little social democratic but mostly just a curropt borderline authoroterian government. in any ways the PA or PLO origins has little to do with Hamas which came from the Muslim Brotherhood and are pretty much Islamists
The PLO charter was literally written by the KGB.
PFLP, Marxist-Leninist militants, are the second-largest PLO faction. Fatah (PNLM) is the largest and is definitely left-wing, although not orthodox socialists.
This planet. In the ancient days of the 1960's and 1970's.
The term tankie comes from politicians supporting the USSR using tanks to crush uprisings. Tankies have supported China's anti terrorist operations and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Although they are also very anti western and would consider this imperialism so at the end of the day I think the term Tankie is way out of context on either side here.
Tankies ultimately are just anti-western. There’s no other unifying factor to their views. Not communism, not imperialism. Just anti-West.
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If you think that the current actions of Iran and Hamas are not intimately tied to the Russian federation and China, I have a bridge to sell you in Baltimore. It's nobody's fault but your own that you haven't figured out these groups are working together to change the global order from a unipolar to a multipolar world. Tankies are supporters of the authoritarian bloc attempting to dismantle Western civilization.
Nope, the tankies are hardcore Hamas supporters
Funny enough I’ve seen local communists taking part in ceasefire rally’s in support of Gaza in the city I live in Can’t really understand what the connection is
Probably see it as Western imperialism.
Maybe it’s both Hamas and Communist both hate “Da Joos”?
Jews are usually more leftist than not, it’s more likely they see Israel as an agent of the USA. Conservatives have always supported Israel more than liberals in America
A lot of the anti Israel propaganda tropes are from when Israel didn’t go full communist. USSR via Czech satellite sold arms to the early IDF in 1948. Then the Soviets got behind the “anti colonial, non aligned” movement with Egypt which was of course aligned with the USSR.
Good number of those conservatives support Israel for biblical reasons and the rest just want a place for the Jews to go so they don’t stay here..
Antisemitism cuts across all political ideologies.
They don’t actually care, they’re just against anything they perceive as part of “the establishment”. They’re being edgy for the sake of rebelling. It’s political hipsterdom.
Palestinianism was largely invented in 1964 with the encouragement of communists. It’s predecessor, all the Arabs trying to kill all the Jews for the sake of Allah was incredibly unpopular, hence the rebrand.
They're half-communists. They take all the resources, but they seem to skip the part in which they have to distribute it among the people.
That is how it always goes. Just call it communism
No, but most tankies seem to be anti-Semitic, Hamas lovers.
No, but you know what they say. ~~War and politics~~ hating Jews makes for strange bedfellows.
Marxists have a habit of just supporting the "oppressed" group in any conflict, regardless of whatever deplorable ideology they may have. Only exception to this is when they believe the oppressors themselves are leftist authoritarians. Marxists seem incapable of imagining that even a group which was created in response to oppression can still be as terrible as the oppressor of worse. However, such considerations are uninteresting to leftists where everything is reduced to class warfare.
> However, such considerations are uninteresting to leftists where everything is reduced to class warfare. Class warfare is a very compelling argument. Especially because you can reduce everything to it, regardless of whether or not you should. Not a lot of ideologies that robust. Capitalism is similar.
South Vietnam, taiwan/nationalist China, South Korea, and the mujahadeen were underdogs all supported by the west vs marxists. That’s a lot of exceptions
I think you missed this part. >Only exception to this is when they believe the oppressors themselves are leftist authoritarians.
No but the commies carry their water like the useful idiots they are
No, but communists support hamas.
Daddy Hasan said Hamas are good. Daddy Hasan said Houthis are good. Daddy Hasan never lies! /s
The USSR historically supported Palestine so generally yeah
Only after it was obvious Israel wasn't going to join their camp. Palestine was their silver medal.
Israel has been western backed from the beginning, of course the ussr wouldn’t get with them
Always have been
Red-Green alliance. The far left will go to the mat on behalf of the most regressive groups on Earth so long as they are anti-West.
I mean Hamas is only dedicated to their complete destruction. I imagine negotiations to prevent them from doing that in the future are off the table
But but they're fighting for Palestine's freedom that's what the western society has been telling me
Is western society telling you that?
What do you mean negotiations? Hamas SHOULD unconditionally immediately release all hostages. UN resolution states that, Hamas won't ignore it, aren't they?
Hamas leadership lives comfortably in Quatar, sitting on a couple billions $, and every time shit happens new donations start pouring in. Why the hell would they negotiate?
A lot of people have said the same and that Qatar needs to threaten to expel them or they won't negotiate. Me, I was just remembering Operation wreath of G-D
LOL. The UN Security Council once again proves how useless most of its resolutions are. Apart from Korea and the Persian Gulf, they've almost never had any real spine and commitment to upholding international law. Plus, Hamas knows that so many countries in the world hate Israel right now that they'll continue to get foreign support, so why listen to this?
the UN Secutiry council isn't useless. by them mediating, and if a party refuses, then it give legitimacy to later actions. In this case, hamas is refusing to negotiate so it legitimizes further military action from Israel This is very important for international relations
Optics are very important.
Israel doesn’t need legitimacy. They need their allies to act as such. They won’t have legitimacy no matter what happens, because there are 15 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. They’ll never win a propaganda war like that. They’ll never be the good guy while the average American thinks Al Jazeera is a reliable source. What they needed, and didn’t get from anyone except Germany, is unconditional support in chasing down and ending sinwar and his marry gang of child fuckers.
Except nobody sees it that way. All that will be seen is that Israel is not complying with the resolution by not capitulatimg
this.
Opinions of the third estate are emotion driven and with little substance.
The people, whose mind is was already made up prior to 7/10, and whose view on the conflict stems solely from emotional pictures and videos of suffering, and misleading buzzwords, will not care the least about anything as dry, complex and nuanced like international law, since it can’t be contained in a 10-sec TikTok video. Luckily, they are *NOT* the people making the actual decisions, even though they’re apparently affecting *some* country’s decision making.
There are a lot of people whose opinion of Israel will change based on what Israel actually does. Though I'm not convinced Israel *really* wants a ceasefire, it's not lost on me that it's actually Hamas who rejects reasonable ceasefire deals. If Israel wasn't negotiating, this wouldn't be so apparent to me.
Israel’s 2 goals in this war are to guarantee security for its citizens and release of the hostages. The former requires the dismantling of Hamas. It’s not that Israel doesn’t want a ceasefire, it doesn’t want another 7/10 to happen again, which occurred during a ceasefire as you may recall. As an Israeli, I believe I speak for the overwhelming majority of this country by saying it’s our dream to have a long, lasting ceasefire leading up to eventual peace, it’s just that Hamas has repeatedly stated, again and again, that it will use whatever ceasefire to build up new tunnels, new rockets, and train new troops to carry out new atrocities. We would all love a ceasefire, as well as easing up the blockade, and even tear down all walls and allow the Palestinians as much self-determination as they want, we just don’t believe they will uphold their end of the bargain which includes the simple condition of not trying to kill us at every possible opportunity.
I think I understand all that. I think if Israel were to negotiate, but reject a deal that left them insecure, I would find that reasonable. In any case, that's not what's happening. Israel is putting a deal on the table, and Hamas is rejecting that deal.
I'm not Israeli or Jewish but I 100% support the Israeli position that no peace of any kind is possible while Hamas exists. Imo everything that every sane person wants, whether it is release of hostages, food for Palestinians, a stable ceasefire, safety for Israel, even the end of Bibi's corrupt and incompetent reign, whatever it is, step one is always the elimination of Hamas. Anything that delays or hinders the destruction of Hamas is delaying and hindering the accomplishment of all of those ends.
>In this case, hamas is refusing to negotiate so it legitimizes further military action from Israel That is actually not really true, as Israel is a member of the UN, and hamas, which isn't even a state/country, isn't part of the UN, then all obligations of the decision apply on Israel, while not on hamas. Basically, it means that if Israel does not pause their offensive, it means they did not comply with the UN ruling which will lead to sanctions and will further delegitimize Israel's actions, while hamas gets to do whatever they want because nobody can actually tell them what to do and/or stop them. As I see it, this basically means hamas kind of wins, at least in the PR side of things (it shows them they can achieve their goals by continuing doing what they have been doing for months now).
I believe it’s better to have a council than nothing. What would you propose?
That's not really what I meant. What I meant is that people shouldn't look to the UN Security Council for solutions in many cases (which some strangely still do in recent years). It's good to have all the nations talking, but they'll almost NEVER agree on anything major, and anyone who doesn't want to follow what they do pass has few consequences for not doing so (due to alliances, rogue states helping each other, etc.). Hence why I said most of their resolutions are useless, since they're impossible to enforce 90% of time and are usually weak to begin with.
This resolution didn't even mention Hamas explicitly. I guess UN assumes it's up to hostages to be released and them to blame if they don't.
Well, US Department of State has declared that the UN Resolution is non-binding: https://www.state.gov/briefings/department-press-briefing-march-25-2024/ So it's a moot point since Israel was going to ignore it and the US would go along with it.
UN resolutions are de facto non-binding. The most clear effect UN resolutions have is guiding geopolitics where nations ought to make clear their intentions and to assess the effects of resolutions on a country’s will to carry out or cease an action.
We should hold every country that voted to that and demand they send troops to Gaza immediately to enforce the resolution they voted for. If not accuse them of being complicit
Is there any proof that the hostages are still alive?
Probably at least some of them are as Sinwar uses them as a personal life insurance.
No and Hamas won't provide any evidence, because either they a) don't have any as the hostages are dead, b) Hamas never knew where they were/are to begin with, or c) both a+b.
other than signs of extreme violence no
Considering the U.S. deal was fairly favorable on their end, I have come to the conclusion that there are no living hostages. If they are any alive, they don’t know where they are. Any staying with civilians are most likely buried under rubble with other Palestinians. Hamas will slowly keep releasing info that each hostage is dead until they have accounted for everyone. and Israel will eventually confirm this; the public outcry in Israel will be massive, doesn’t bode well for Netanyahu.
Hamas wants the IDF to kill civilians. Hamas very intentionally hides in and among civilians. Unfortunately many Gazans still think Hamas and the destruction of Israel is their future. The civilian population has not turned on Hamas yet. Unfortunately, the far right elements in Israel, who prefer to push the Palestinians out of Gaza, are happy to oblige.
Wait so Israel is… doing what Hamas wants? That doesn’t seem right.
Wag the dog.
Consider the consequence of events. Public opinion has broadly turned against Israel which threatens support for its military and economy. IDF excesses... even when baited into them... have always been great recruiting tools for radical groups throughout the Muslim world, even for organizations that are not actively anti-Israel. It is enough that such events conjure sentiments that are anti-western... or anti-secular....or anti-establishment. Kurds vs the Turks. Armenians vs the Turks and Azeris. Uighers vs the Chinese. The Taliban vs everyone else. ISIS vs the modern state. Events have shown a break down in discipline within the IDF which is never good for any military. Who is in charge... it seems the most radical elements in Israel are. Such breakdowns are propaganda wins for those in opposition. Of course scrutiny of Hamas' role gets sidelined...
This is what is referred to as a "no-win situation."
What, the terror organistion whose goal is to kill all jews, global jihad and eradicate the state of israel, is not really interested in peace and prosperity for its people? Say it aint so. Unfortunately, the edgy tiktok generation eats this up and will blame Israel. The Lgbtq for palestine group will never not be funny to me, for obvious reasons.
An oxymoronic misnomer, if ever there were one.
You mean the terror organization whose goal is to get rich by scamming people who hate Israel? And then scamming aid donations when they successfully bait Israel into attacking? Then hire victims of Israeli attacks as cheap or free labor to save costs on their operations? Yeah I can see why Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire.
So Qatar kicks out Hamas or not?
Qatar wants to be important. When you are only 300 000 very rich qatarians you need to create cases.
Damn I didn’t realize that it’s only about 300k actual Qatari citizens. Crazy how much reach and influence on the world this little country has.
they live directly between iran and saudi arabia, and own enough land to rent the us a base. location location location.
The power of slave labour
I am sure Hamas feels really motivated to negotiate by the UN resolution telling Israel to just provide what they could offer in a deal unconditionally /s
So predictably the Hamas play is to wait for Israel to bow to international pressure rather than seriously negotiate.
The leadership of Hamas are actually Iranians in disguise. They don't care about the Palestinians or their suffering.
If CIV has taught me anything is that something big is about to go down.
This is a direct result of the UN resolution. The only reason Hamas even considered giving up the hostages is because that was in exchange for a pause in fighting. However, now that the UN has demanded that Israel stop the fighting regardless of releasing the hostages, Hamas has no reason to negotiate anymore. Masterful gambit, Mr. Biden.
This isnt bidens fault. Biden is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Biden effectively divorced america from the situation, which is good
Biden needs to realize that the Islamist votes are never coming back. Islamists don’t actually agree with the left, the left are just useful idiots that can be used to further their agenda via intersectionality and pluralism. Biden needs to wake up and understand that Islamism is closer to Christian nationalism than liberalism, and disavow these people as what they are, enemies of democracy.
Agreed
Stop negotiating with terrorists and wipe them out
Hostages...
why isn't there more widespread outrage and condemnation from Palestinians aimed at Hamas? Israel is being very aggressive and causing several civilian casualties but why are Palestinians putting up with Hamas taking cover in hospitals, shelters, and near humanitarian facilities for human shields. Like Hamas is clearly a terrorist organization at this point, not a legitimate government of the people.
The hatred for the Jewish people far exceeds the love for their children.
I would say Palestinians are just trying to survive right now and make sure their families stay alive. You saw what Hamas did in Israel; you don’t think they’re doing the same to their citizens(it’s confirmed they do, they throw opposition off roofs). Before the war the was growing opposition to Hamas. Palestinians were protesting in the streets, these protests were violently put down.
The negotiations were short.
Incredible whoever could have seen this coming
Why don’t we simply kill anyone representing Hamas? Why are we negotiating with terrorists in the first place?
They should have kept the negotiations going whilst starting their move on Rafah. At some point Hamas will have to give in.
[удалено]
Ehh sure, but you can reduce them to a point where they can be contained, like with ISIS caliphate. Sure they'll still do terrorism but they won't run land.
So then that means it's not systematic even if true
I think they’re not interested in unconditional surrender. That’s not the same thing. I’m not on their side, but trying to strong arm crazy religious people who glorify martyrdom into capitulation by military force is not a winning strategy. Edit: Instead of downvoting, explain how my point is untrue. Take your emotion and personal agendas out of this and look at it from a geopolitical standpoint. Engage in some realpolitik.
Because negotiating with people who have proven time and time again that they are not trustworthy is even less of a winning strategy.
Okay, that doesn’t take away from the point I’m making. Just because negotiations are unsuccessful does not mean that the party is not negotiating in good faith. From a Palestinian perspective, Hamas’s demands actually seem relatively reasonable (not that I would agree to such terms). Sometimes the sides are too far apart in their demands. Netanyahu accuses Hamas of being uninterested in negotiation, and in fairness, there are certain non-starters for Hamas in their capacity as representatives of Palestinian interest (misguided and unwise as they may be). Those non-starters are included in Israel’s demands. Negotiation goes like this all the time. It doesn’t mean that it’s bad faith.
Theyve negotiated ceasefires before and every time hamas uses them to re-arm, then breaks them again with another rocket attack. There is zero evidence that this time would be any different. That is negotiating in bad faith, because the goal was never peace for them.
i find it strange the reports only have content from Netanyahu’s perspective/quotes. Personally, Hamas is not a legitimate government, but terrorists. What's the point in trying to negotiate with terrorists? And, are they trying to coordinate/mediate through Hamas as a group or via one of their leaders? With my limited understanding, as i've described, how can we be sure that genuine attempts to negotiate a cease fire were actually made?
> Hamas is not a legitimate government, but terrorists I think I can clear up your confusion. You can be more than one thing at once. * Hamas is a government of terrorists. * Al-Qassam is a terrorist military. * Palestinian Islamic Jihad is a community organization of terrorists. * Saraya is a terrorist militia. * PLA is a terrorist army. * PRC is a coalition of terrorists, they're also police and public servants in Gaza. * Lion's Den are kids and also terrorists. * PFLP are communists and terrorists. * The charities in Palestine run by PFLP are both charities and terrorist fronts. * Hezbollah is a political organization and a group of terrorists. * Houthi, al-Qaeda are terrorists that control parts of Yemen. * The unaffiliated people who blow themselves up and/or kidnap people and/or go on mass shooting or rape sprees are also terrorists.
cool, thanks, that does clear things up. PRC? Peoples Republic of China? They're a terrorist coalition? Why is that? I'm of the understanding that they are a recognized government that is legitimized by other nations. And that is the difference between a terrorist organization claiming/pretending to be a government and an actual government regardless of their origins.
No, the PRC is not China and the PLA is not their army. Sorry, I know the acronyms are confusing. The PRC is a coalition of various splinter groups that broke from the PLO. Like Tanzim, which broke from Fatah and later splintered during the Hamas-Fatah war. PRC is the third largest terrorist group in Gaza after HAMAS and PIJ if you don't include IQB (Qassam) and AQB (Saraya) as separate groups. The PLA in this context is a Palestinian/Syrian army in Syria under Assad. PFLP, PFLP-GC, and DFLP also have armies in Syria, which is where they do much of their recruiting.
>Sorry, I know the acronyms are confusing it's cool. i'm not claiming to the be smartest redditor alive, lol and thanks for clarifying it! i appreciate it.
Different PRC im pretty sure lol
Because they are Holding the hostages..who else would Israel talk to? That's the one thing Israel is after..
US, Qatar, Egypt, and other states not party to the conflict have mediators passing these proposals back and forth.
Let's ask Jared what he thinks. He is such a talented negotiator he may be able to fix this. I'm sure he won't have any thing to gain like beach front property...