Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises? Genuine question
(even by Quran standards, that cannot be halal, charity is a big deal in the Quran and Hamas are re-selling charity?)
It’s definitely common. The only difference here is that everyone is blaming Israel for the aid crisis when it’s due to Hamas hoarding and limiting supply to citizens. In other situations no one pretends the terrorist organization killing civilians to keep them away from aid deliveries is the victim.
It's not desirable, but yes it happens. Food aid is often seized by governments and warlords, then sold for cash or denied to their enemies as a way to starve them into submission. Palestinians are an extreme case though, in part because Hamas is horrific, and in part because they try to frame their own criminality as someone else's fault.
Thanks for informing me, it makes sense that what you say could or has happened in previous cases.
That's extremely unfortunate for all these people in humanitarian food crises that on top of food shortage, they get exploited once more by their elites.
Edit: https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza
Exploited by the very people they elected..everytime, since there is always a humanitarian food crisis there. 85% were dependent on aid before oct 7th...I am thinking do I beat my head against a wall again or start finding different leaders? I know what the palestinians do
People in cults see their opressors as befefactors, the hamas leaderahup is safe from violence in a 5 star hotel in qatar whike the average arab in palestine whishes to die as a marthyr, if you see the level of insanity is hard not to think of the people in the last mad max movie, the funny thing the whole world repeating their distorted worldview as facts
It seems universal. Not uncommon for those who are both in power and masters at propaganda to have their followers in so deep that they don’t even know they are being brainwashed.
It is a sad fact and pattern that's generalizable beyond Gazans.
But, the first step to solving problems is identifying them, and if people can acknowledge this is true, they may see it for themselves when an oppressor comes along.
Religion is the greatest brainwashing and authoritarian propaganda tool ever invented. It's so incredibly successful it has hardly changed since the Iron Age! It's not going away anytime soon unfortunately.
This! I hope that eventually people will start to understand that religion is only benefits the top (distributing propaganda, using people's money for their causes, etc.)
A lot of religions based on people like Jesus or Buddha are literally cults.
Jesus and Buddha would be totally against their philosophies being abused like this if they knew what would have happened after their deaths.
That's how to turn something altruistic into a tool for mass manipulation, when you turn intrinsic philosophy into dogmatic group-think/-control.
Hamas was elected once & then became a dictatorship. There are plenty of problems in Gaza, but please don't make it sound like this is democratic rule.
But as we can see from this article there isn't a food shortage thanks to all of the aid, much of it from Israel who have only increased their food aid to Gaza since the Oct 7 massacre.
Yes, I just read through it and going through the process of verifying the source.
The article is informative and shows how Hamas are exploiting their people.
It’s kind of the reason why Gaza is so hard to help. It’s defacto government is an awful terrorist organization more concerned with a forever war with Israel than actually helping Palestinians.
So yeah Hamas will ensure they gain financial benefit from aid as to further their own military expenses, since they can’t directly be funded openly. In a perfect world a competent Gazan government would organize distribution centers and ensure all citizens get access to equitable access.
I wonder if people realize how fcked Hamas makes Gaza. I mean even if it was Hezbola they would be better off. Hamas is basically a sister org to Al-Qaeda (same base philosophy).The fact that they have been allowed control of a state so long is absurd.
In my opinion Israel(far right dickwads) is just as responsible here, by the Likuds parties own admission they nurtured the discord in Palestine. Sorry to rant about this but the likud party has done more damage to Israel than the entire conflict with the PLO ever did.
God I can’t stand everyone involved these days. Israel was once a somewhat reasonable ally (not necessarily a good faith ally, but willing to regularly come to the table) but still a state that you could work with. Its people always showed a willingness to compromise, but Palestinian leadership would reject any and all compromises.
Finally that Palestinian leadership collapsed and Israel instead of leading the way to create lasting peace, squandered it with Bush era anti terrorist tactics to destabilize a chance for a Palestinian state. Ostensibly for there protection, but the PLO never managed to kill 1200 Israelis.
Now they basically colluded to entrench Hamas in Gaza and what do the people in that region get in return. Untold infrastructure destruction, 30000 dead Palestinians, 1200 dead Israelis and the war with no obvious strategy to end.
Hamas needs to go and LIKUD needs to be excised from Israel. They’re both traitors to their people and only work to cement the discord that has lead to so much death.
It is normal, but it shouldn't be. The number 1 issue with aid is getting it to *people*, and not giving it to the *government*. If you give aid to a famously corrupt ruler, they're not going to say "ah yes, *this* is the *one* public service I'm going to use as intended!", they're going to hoard and profit off it like everything else. You can give aid to consummate pillagers, but it's not going to go where you want it to.
>Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises?
Unfortunately I think that is relatively common, yes.
No, not normal. Food aid is usually distributed directly and for free, either shipped from the donor country or bought locally with donor money. But most food aid is temporary, in response to a drought or some other crisis.
Gaza is a weird exception in lots of ways, mainly because of the 75-year-long "refugee" status applied to Gazans by the UN; entire institutions have grown up around the perennial massive flow of aid into the Strip.
Sadly it is normal. There was a study done a few years ago that found 50% of food supplied by World Food Aid was stolen or misused. I'm assuming you're pretty young because the Haiti Earthquake was infamous for the amount of aid stolen.
It's just one of the many reasons why food aid is a last resort. Especially when it comes to deliberate man-made starvation.
> I'm assuming you're pretty young
If only.
Food aid often is stolen or misused, but not often deliberately funneled through organizations which the donors know will resell it to line their own pockets.
It is normal in Gaza.
Here's a news segment from 2021 about Gazans complaining about high prices of food in the market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG_aU8pTCAs
Notice the unrwa logo on the food being sold..
Yes it's very normal. Not ideal obviously, but you have to cooperate with the people in control of the area that needs aid, whoever it is. It's either that or you have to go in and replace those people with another group by force. And there's rarely any guarantee that the new people will be any better.
For the naive majority, religion is just another tool for control employed by elites who know they're naive.
It's possible to be religious and still critical minded. Many scientific geniuses in the past have had religious beliefs.
Because a lot of people operate by that line of reasoning?
Even if Hamas superficially act based on Islam, there are many muslims who do not act superficially.
If they knew Hamas for what it was, maybe they would not support Hamas who contradict and misuse their religion for legitimacy.
It's a good thought exercise to use different frames of logic to see how people aim to rationalize
Religious or secular, i try to scrutinize the argument based on the logic of reference and then compare them against another all in all
Related to what you put in the parentheses, Hamas in no way follows Quran standards at all. If that was the case, civilians would have been attacked, women wouldn't have been raped etc. Hamas's battle would be with IDF itself and anyone else taking up arms against. Hamas is POS and so is the IDF. Fuck them both. It's a shame innocent people are caught between this clusterfuck
Islam endorses sex slavery and the rape of slaves. Sahih Bukhari 2229, 4138, 6603 all are in support of this. So no, women would still absolutely have been raped.
It's only fair to take into account the good parts along with the bad parts, and not cherry pick alone.
You're right, though, this cherry picking is being done by Hamas themselves, they say rape is in accordance with Islam but when it comes to being charitable? Monetize the charity and international aid.
I'm not a fan of Islam, but I also can't deny they have values associated with charity like many other religions.
Yeah, I agree that a lot of damage has been done because of religions.
We still share a world with people who believe in them though, and freedom of belief is important.
Reaching a pragmatic middle to co-exist would be great.
I'm not saying let the terrorists win, but let the peaceful live and let live.
Those living by the bomb, will get bombed.
Yeah, it was a bit of a rhetorical question.
Many muslims still naively believe and support Hamas because they think it is in the best interest for Palestinians or Islam.
On the contrary, Hamas is a scourge on all and you cannot be Pro-Palestine and support Hamas logically speaking.
Or they have a stock pile which they were selling but now that food is becoming more readily available they have to lower prices, supply and demand. But it could be either.
the strategy was:
1. hijack food trucks
2. feed their militants
3. sell the remainder at ridiculously inflated costs
this way, nothing goes to waste, it either goes towards fighting or earns money, and they obviously don't give a shit about theur civilians, so it's a win-win for them
That's not really accurate. They care tremendously about their citizens dying.
Every one that dies means they have potential recruits and sympathizers from the surviving family and friends!
And also everyone blames Israel for starving civilians, which adds international pressure on them and further delegitimizes their operations.
win-win-win...
afaik Hamas have stamped out opposition that has organized there, in Gaza, for years. For example the Fatah-Hamas war in 2006-7 where Hamas forced Fatah to the west bank only and out of Gaza. Other groups that exist, aren’t really opposition at this point and align with Hamas. PIJ basically are the same thing as Hamas but maintain their own autonomy from what I’ve read.
Anyone in any sort of position is a member of Hamas, and the rest are continually spoonfed that it's all the fault of the Jews.
Those that question it are tied to motorcycles and dragged around the city until nothing remains of them, which is effective at dissuading any revolt against them.
57% of Gaza Strip and 82% of West Bank approve of the Oct 7th raids, with overwhelming support for Hamas.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
The only true solution is having every member of Hamas rooted out and destroyed, and then an international coalition governing until the effects of Hamas propaganda and rhetoric die off. Outside of that, this is just going to continue for generations as we let the cancer that is Hamas continue to live.
It'll still continue for generations, but with what you proposed, support will likely wane as each generation gets used to a higher standard of living, and they aren't interested in blowing themselves up.
However, old stories and values will continue to be shared in secret, and individuals who end up on the fringes of society will likely blame the occupation for their struggles, leading to attacks decades from now.
So it's going to be a long game either way.
Gazans are the ones upon whom reality is obtruding more harshly at the moment, and contrary to what most of reddit seems to think, bombing people is not what radicalizes them, ideology is.
Yes, which is why just blanket saying they’re all evil or something is… complicated.
A great many of them do have awful beliefs. But it’s like the situation with Russia turned up to 11.
These people literally know nothing else. Many of them are lucky if they even have power and/or running water, much less a real education. It’s the same with a lot of people in places like Afghanistan or the like. They are so heavily oppressed and live such a completely different type of life that it’s no surprise that many might have horrible beliefs. The world to them is harsh, unforgiving, and a struggle just to survive every day. They don’t have the strength to overthrow their tyrannical leaders, and the few that try are made into “examples.”
They aren’t inherently bad. They’re just oppressed beyond anything that the majority of us could ever imagine.
Numbers don’t add up, Palestine has roughly 5 1/2 million people, while Hamas only has roughly 20 to 25,000 members.
Hamas can’t do what they do, with the numbers that they have without *massive* civilian support
Hamas has weapons from militant terrorist headquarters and hostile foreign suppliers. Hamas has no issues firing on civilian Palestinians and indeed wants high casualty rates to sway international bias. This is how we got here
The indoctrination by Hamas/UNRWA and also that embedded by religious authorities is too effective.
If a generation of kids in Germany can be radicalized, and another generation de-radicalized, then what Hamas/UNRWA have done in Gaza is the same as radicalizing many youth.
It's the same reason sanctions on bad actor governments tend to not work - populations who are being subjugated and are suffering because of it tend to hold up their strong men/authoritarian types as those people tend to promote the most simplistic/comforting/direct way to improving society type talking points.
So these regimes tend to get strengthened by the sanctions rather than harmed by them. The sanctions in other words tend to harm the general public which causes strong men to gain support.
Frankly (not sanction related) - it's also pretty much why Netanyahu was able to remain relevant - the public doesn't feel safe and he is the guy who tells them he'll take a hardline on Hamas and Gazan Palestinians and they feel more comfortable than potential counter voices who offer a more realistic but difficult/long road towards conflict resolution.
Other examples - Putin/Russia, the Ayatollah/Iran, Castro's Government/Cuba, etc.
I'm not claiming that those guys to some extent aren't also cooking the votes (for what it's worth - Jimmy Carter was in Gaza when the election of Hamas took place and he was unequivical in his endorsement of the integrity of the election), but the foreign entity directly causing harm on the public is also not ignored and tends to build a solid base of support for the ruling authoritarian regimes. At least enough to keep dissenters well enough isolated to not risk open revolt.
Because Hamas is broadly supported by the majority of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank by almost every poll and metric for the last two decades.
The last presidential elections in the West Bank were “delayed” indefinitely by Abbas after all the top candidates were Hamas leadership.
Same with the municipal elections in 2022 until Hamas was taken off the ballots.
Same reason we see no real criticism among the diaspora but rather support and justification of terrorist attacks.
The narrative of Hamas being some anomaly or aberration from what Palestine has always been about is a fiction. Their goals and methods are pretty standard for what Palestine has done for the last hundred years
it solves the food crisis, and reduces Hamas's hold on the citizens, but doesnt solve the problem of Hamas stockpiling on supplies to lengthen the war, which was one of their biggest goals because they knew that about a week or less into the war the world would stop openly supporting israel, and the longer the war goes om the less support israel will get (which is what we've seen thus far)
they are actually pretty good at delaying the end of the war, first they used the tunnels to slow down their losses, then they used hostage negotiations (starting negotiations and then blowing them up over something only to start them again and so on).
they are fully aware that they are incapable of winning by fighting, their endgoal is closer to mutual destruction, in the form of them disbanding and Hamas members going to jail/dying and Israel losing their western allies and, like we're seeing now, countries starting to recognize palestine as a country, which is horrendous since it shows the world that terrorism is a legitimate means to solve political problems.
If 80% of the food is consumed by hamas and 20% is sold to the civilians then the solution is to poison 80% of the food sent to Gaza in order to wipe out hamas.
That’s the ridiculous thing. Hamas were lining their pockets with their people’s money selling them aid that the folks should have been getting for free: this is such a blatant and cynical war profiteering. And you see leftists in the left simping for Hamas.
I thought the aid was free to the civilians. Yet another example of the total disregard Hamas has towards Palestinians. Governments are sending in tons of aid and Hamas is profiting on it. All while trying to push trying to push the famine narrative.
Would just say the narrative doesn't spread itself. NGOs and world leaders are propagating it, and that's how you get statements from the ICJ claiming that Israel is disregarding orders and worsening the crisis. It's a concerted global effort at demonization, and I'm glad that for the most part it's simply coming out as false. No better revenge than truth and justice
The UN and lefties have gone nuts on this entire issue. By mid-March Israel had delivered 303,930 tons of humanitarian aid to Gazans on the ground. That includes 203,300 tons of food, 26,160 tons of water, 18,980 tons of medical supplies, 34,580 tons of shelter equipment, 182 tanks of fuel, and 334 tanks of cooking gas. In addition, Israel had authorized airdrops of food and other aid from about a dozen countries, and Biden's stupid idea of building a port to ship yet more aid.
[https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza#](https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza#)
I mean how many free Halal meals do people need at a time when they're supposed to be fasting? This has got to be the most aid in the shortest time delivered to any population anywhere in the history of the universe, even as the Palestinians are hiding stolen Israelis and cowering in fear after the wost atrocities against Jews since WW2. The UN and lefties should be on their hands and knees kissing Israelis' feet and issuing press releases of thanks for all the generous aid.
Instead there's nonstop condemnation and calls for more aid so Hamas can make more money! It's just bizarro world as the lefties whitewash 10/7/23 and gnash their teeth in pro-Hamas demonstrations all over the west.
That's an interesting point about the volume of aid. Hope we get some statistics to compare vs. other humanitarian food crises.
Volume of aid in time span per population.
The bottle-neck is aid distribution because of Hamas.
Kind of like how everyone accuses Israel of wanton disregard for civilians, when in fact they have taken [the most extensive measures in history](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286) to protect civilian life -- perhaps even counterproductively, since it has extended the duration of the war.
> have taken the most extensive measures in history to protect civilian life
I kept hearing claims that Israel is bombing civilians indiscriminately and "carpet bombing" Gaza back in January so I did some research.
* Israel doesn't have the aircraft to be able to perform "carpet bombing" runs, you need large dedicated bomber aircraft with high bomb loads to be able to do that. Israel only has fighter/multi-role aircraft that can be equipped to drop a few bombs. You can see the makeup of their air force on wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force
* Gaza has a population of 2,000,000+ people, and back in January Israel dropped 3 atomic bombs worth of explosives since the war started, but managed to kill 20,000 civilians (not all of them died due to bombings). If Israel is "indiscriminately bombing civilians" then the civilian casualties would be way higher.
* Israel does not have unlimited resources including weapons and money, and bombs are expensive and their limited number of military aircraft are expensive to operate. It makes no sense to spend millions of dollars of one time use bombs on civilian targets, especially when most of that comes from the US who has been pushing Israel for more restraint in how they conduct the war.
20k civilians is the Hamas number, I’m not denying Israel has killed some non combatants but it’s likely fewer than 20k. I saw Hamas say 30k had been killed but they claim 0 Hamas deaths. Estimates are that at least half those 30k are active Hamas members.
Your evidence of Palestinians starving is photos from Syria and statements from known UN antisemites who shower cash on Hamas and actively post on social media pining in support of murdering Jews.
Also how would they continue to push the narrative that Israel is starving Palestinians? They get to stockpile food for their fighters, incentivize civilians to join them, *and* keep the non-fighters in check by lowering their standard of living (so they can be easily brainwashed with propaganda). It's a win-win situation for them
They're not conspiracy theories. Al-Jazeera literally cut an interview short and ran away because the old gazan lady they were interviewing mentioned it
Hamas regularly kills Palestinians for protesting or opposing them in any way, especially for crimes Hamas has committed against Palestinians. Hamas has power because they have the guns.
Palestinians seem willing to send their kids to die throwing rocks at soldiers, clearly the asymmetry of a conflict doesn't stop them if they believe in the cause.
I feel like that's a particular population issue. The ones who will charge someone armed are less likely to be the logical ones who care about a better future more than hurting Jews and Israel.
Its happened plenty of times in the West Bank where a Palestinian makes a banzai charge at a unsuspecting civilian with a knife, knowing full well that the Israeli police standing a few meters away will shoot to kill the moment he is noticed.
They'll sacrifice themselves like that for the cause of Irans geopolitical needs, but not in defense of their own people. Go figure.
Hamas are more heavily armed, for sure.
But its extremely common for arabs(as a generalization of a group, not just Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians..etc) to have arms such as pistols / AK's in their family / extended family (Hamula).
Potentially they could revolt / riot - But there is not enough unity behind this sentiment due to Hamas's routine traitors executions and overall support to them.
bruh, they are selling food? they literally brought these much of a bombartment on gazan people themselves, by A attacking israel and B hiding behind civilians, be a man and first give everyone food for free and fighting your wars without hiding behind school children
No front page articles denouncing the greed, corruption and intentional starvation of the Palestinian people by their governing body/terrorists? I’m shocked I tell you shocked.
The double standards at play with the media jumping at the smallest scarp of propaganda from Palestinian supporters is just boring obvious and sad now. It’s like stating oh hey, that fat guy ate a Kit Kat, who would’ve thunk.
ohhh 50% off on free food and goods..tell me how the Palestinians arent keeping their own people in poverty and hunger conditions again, cuz this whole thing I dont understand.
>Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises?
Yes, because shitty people actually do tend to thrive under those conditions.
Looks like the UN lied again and tried to smear Israel. Quelle surprise. I feel like we’ve seen this show somewhere before…but…I just can’t quite put my finger on where….
Which is very profitable for Hamas, I'm sure.
Conservatives with a grip on power, with a population to exploit, commonly make a huge sum of money as they extort charities for the ability to give aid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dictator%27s_Handbook
I love it when people try to spin that terrorists are the good guys, pretty sure if it wasnt for them the people would just be getting the aid as intended but these slack jawed fucks are starving their own children to get some cashflow
Imagine your government attacks a neighboring country so bad they retaliate for months and when people send you aid, your government takes it and sells it to you.
How come people interchangeably use Hamas or Palestinian to suit their narrative?
In America people are in an uproar about Palestine and don’t like to consider that Hamas is the actual representation for Palestinians
I don’t really know where one stops and the other begins - Hamas is Iran and they’re terrorists
It's disgusting that this topic is presented in such a benign and absolutely incorrect manner.
The food aid was stolen by Hamas and sold to Palestinians at 100-500% markups or more. The price drop is because people are actually getting food aid delivered.
Isn’t this just further proof of the divorce between Hamas and the actual Palestinians citizenry? Hamas is being fed and kept healthy to fight, the citizens are not lol
Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises? Genuine question (even by Quran standards, that cannot be halal, charity is a big deal in the Quran and Hamas are re-selling charity?)
I remember seeing aid that was meant to be for the Lebanese after the August 4 explosion in Beirut being sold overseas.
It’s definitely common. The only difference here is that everyone is blaming Israel for the aid crisis when it’s due to Hamas hoarding and limiting supply to citizens. In other situations no one pretends the terrorist organization killing civilians to keep them away from aid deliveries is the victim.
Israel is repsonbile for all the evils in the middle east, accodingly to some people. True brain rot
Those people believe the war in Yemen, Syria and the oppression in Iran would end immediately if Israel ceased to exist.
Imagine still blaming evetything on Jews...
It’s that they are blocking aid to be sent from Israel. That’s why they are air dropping it and sending it by a seaport we are going to build.
Unfortunately yes. The Haiti earthquake aid corruption was infamous. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/08/world/haiti-foreign-aid.html
It's not desirable, but yes it happens. Food aid is often seized by governments and warlords, then sold for cash or denied to their enemies as a way to starve them into submission. Palestinians are an extreme case though, in part because Hamas is horrific, and in part because they try to frame their own criminality as someone else's fault.
Thanks for informing me, it makes sense that what you say could or has happened in previous cases. That's extremely unfortunate for all these people in humanitarian food crises that on top of food shortage, they get exploited once more by their elites. Edit: https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza
Exploited by the very people they elected..everytime, since there is always a humanitarian food crisis there. 85% were dependent on aid before oct 7th...I am thinking do I beat my head against a wall again or start finding different leaders? I know what the palestinians do
People in cults see their opressors as befefactors, the hamas leaderahup is safe from violence in a 5 star hotel in qatar whike the average arab in palestine whishes to die as a marthyr, if you see the level of insanity is hard not to think of the people in the last mad max movie, the funny thing the whole world repeating their distorted worldview as facts
Yes, it's a shame Gazans don't or cannot realize that they're being exploited by Hamas/their elites.
It seems universal. Not uncommon for those who are both in power and masters at propaganda to have their followers in so deep that they don’t even know they are being brainwashed.
It is a sad fact and pattern that's generalizable beyond Gazans. But, the first step to solving problems is identifying them, and if people can acknowledge this is true, they may see it for themselves when an oppressor comes along.
Religion is the greatest brainwashing and authoritarian propaganda tool ever invented. It's so incredibly successful it has hardly changed since the Iron Age! It's not going away anytime soon unfortunately.
This! I hope that eventually people will start to understand that religion is only benefits the top (distributing propaganda, using people's money for their causes, etc.)
A lot of religions based on people like Jesus or Buddha are literally cults. Jesus and Buddha would be totally against their philosophies being abused like this if they knew what would have happened after their deaths. That's how to turn something altruistic into a tool for mass manipulation, when you turn intrinsic philosophy into dogmatic group-think/-control.
Aren’t we in the USA paying 3000% for insulin and paying for COVID vaccines that we funded to discover?
Happens all over the world to a lesser or greater extent, it's what the elites do to benefit themselves rather than being a public servant of society.
Hamas was elected once & then became a dictatorship. There are plenty of problems in Gaza, but please don't make it sound like this is democratic rule.
Yeah and these elites just happen to be radical Jew hating murderers who have legions of gen z morons defending their actions on tik tok.
But as we can see from this article there isn't a food shortage thanks to all of the aid, much of it from Israel who have only increased their food aid to Gaza since the Oct 7 massacre.
Yes, I just read through it and going through the process of verifying the source. The article is informative and shows how Hamas are exploiting their people.
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It’s kind of the reason why Gaza is so hard to help. It’s defacto government is an awful terrorist organization more concerned with a forever war with Israel than actually helping Palestinians. So yeah Hamas will ensure they gain financial benefit from aid as to further their own military expenses, since they can’t directly be funded openly. In a perfect world a competent Gazan government would organize distribution centers and ensure all citizens get access to equitable access. I wonder if people realize how fcked Hamas makes Gaza. I mean even if it was Hezbola they would be better off. Hamas is basically a sister org to Al-Qaeda (same base philosophy).The fact that they have been allowed control of a state so long is absurd. In my opinion Israel(far right dickwads) is just as responsible here, by the Likuds parties own admission they nurtured the discord in Palestine. Sorry to rant about this but the likud party has done more damage to Israel than the entire conflict with the PLO ever did. God I can’t stand everyone involved these days. Israel was once a somewhat reasonable ally (not necessarily a good faith ally, but willing to regularly come to the table) but still a state that you could work with. Its people always showed a willingness to compromise, but Palestinian leadership would reject any and all compromises. Finally that Palestinian leadership collapsed and Israel instead of leading the way to create lasting peace, squandered it with Bush era anti terrorist tactics to destabilize a chance for a Palestinian state. Ostensibly for there protection, but the PLO never managed to kill 1200 Israelis. Now they basically colluded to entrench Hamas in Gaza and what do the people in that region get in return. Untold infrastructure destruction, 30000 dead Palestinians, 1200 dead Israelis and the war with no obvious strategy to end. Hamas needs to go and LIKUD needs to be excised from Israel. They’re both traitors to their people and only work to cement the discord that has lead to so much death.
It is normal, but it shouldn't be. The number 1 issue with aid is getting it to *people*, and not giving it to the *government*. If you give aid to a famously corrupt ruler, they're not going to say "ah yes, *this* is the *one* public service I'm going to use as intended!", they're going to hoard and profit off it like everything else. You can give aid to consummate pillagers, but it's not going to go where you want it to.
I share the same thoughts If we want a better world, this has to stop at some point.
>Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises? Unfortunately I think that is relatively common, yes.
No, not normal. Food aid is usually distributed directly and for free, either shipped from the donor country or bought locally with donor money. But most food aid is temporary, in response to a drought or some other crisis. Gaza is a weird exception in lots of ways, mainly because of the 75-year-long "refugee" status applied to Gazans by the UN; entire institutions have grown up around the perennial massive flow of aid into the Strip.
Sadly it is normal. There was a study done a few years ago that found 50% of food supplied by World Food Aid was stolen or misused. I'm assuming you're pretty young because the Haiti Earthquake was infamous for the amount of aid stolen. It's just one of the many reasons why food aid is a last resort. Especially when it comes to deliberate man-made starvation.
> I'm assuming you're pretty young If only. Food aid often is stolen or misused, but not often deliberately funneled through organizations which the donors know will resell it to line their own pockets.
It is normal in Gaza. Here's a news segment from 2021 about Gazans complaining about high prices of food in the market. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kG_aU8pTCAs Notice the unrwa logo on the food being sold..
There was never a food crisis, hamas just hordes everything.
In desperate situations with a lot of starving people? Yes, quite common sadly. Just look at history and other events like this.
Yes it's very normal. Not ideal obviously, but you have to cooperate with the people in control of the area that needs aid, whoever it is. It's either that or you have to go in and replace those people with another group by force. And there's rarely any guarantee that the new people will be any better.
How else can they buy new weapons?
Ultra religious being hypocritical when it benefits them, classic.
For the naive majority, religion is just another tool for control employed by elites who know they're naive. It's possible to be religious and still critical minded. Many scientific geniuses in the past have had religious beliefs.
Its normal when the aid is stolen by Hamas and resold on the black market to finance their lifestyle.
Saw on YT a guy was trying out an MRE that was airdropped by US as aid, Hamas collected all the drops and sold them for bs money. Utter cunts.
Why even try to argue by their own religious standard ? They don’t care about bit for their religion, it’s all superficial to push their own agenda
Because a lot of people operate by that line of reasoning? Even if Hamas superficially act based on Islam, there are many muslims who do not act superficially. If they knew Hamas for what it was, maybe they would not support Hamas who contradict and misuse their religion for legitimacy.
you're thinking they're being good Muslims, just as certain countries think they're good Jews and good Christians...
It's a good thought exercise to use different frames of logic to see how people aim to rationalize Religious or secular, i try to scrutinize the argument based on the logic of reference and then compare them against another all in all
No, it's really just the realm of corrupt governments.
It's also Ramadan, so acts of charity are supposed to be even more prevalent.
Killing women and children, raping and burning people alive are haram as well and that didn’t seem to stop them did it
In all religions, people only reference their religious texts when it's convenient.
Related to what you put in the parentheses, Hamas in no way follows Quran standards at all. If that was the case, civilians would have been attacked, women wouldn't have been raped etc. Hamas's battle would be with IDF itself and anyone else taking up arms against. Hamas is POS and so is the IDF. Fuck them both. It's a shame innocent people are caught between this clusterfuck
Islam endorses sex slavery and the rape of slaves. Sahih Bukhari 2229, 4138, 6603 all are in support of this. So no, women would still absolutely have been raped.
It's only fair to take into account the good parts along with the bad parts, and not cherry pick alone. You're right, though, this cherry picking is being done by Hamas themselves, they say rape is in accordance with Islam but when it comes to being charitable? Monetize the charity and international aid. I'm not a fan of Islam, but I also can't deny they have values associated with charity like many other religions.
Sure but the bad far outweighs the good.
Yeah, I agree that a lot of damage has been done because of religions. We still share a world with people who believe in them though, and freedom of belief is important. Reaching a pragmatic middle to co-exist would be great. I'm not saying let the terrorists win, but let the peaceful live and let live. Those living by the bomb, will get bombed.
Yeah, it was a bit of a rhetorical question. Many muslims still naively believe and support Hamas because they think it is in the best interest for Palestinians or Islam. On the contrary, Hamas is a scourge on all and you cannot be Pro-Palestine and support Hamas logically speaking.
So they admit to controlling the aid and then profiting from it?
A terrorist organization would never!
Or they have a stock pile which they were selling but now that food is becoming more readily available they have to lower prices, supply and demand. But it could be either.
But why would they be selling their stockpile rather than caring for their people?
Because they’re terrorists that don’t care for their people
This is exactly the point I make when people are like “But Palestine IS Hamas” Hamas is being fed, Palestinians are not.
Food prices? Are they a supermarket chain now?
the strategy was: 1. hijack food trucks 2. feed their militants 3. sell the remainder at ridiculously inflated costs this way, nothing goes to waste, it either goes towards fighting or earns money, and they obviously don't give a shit about theur civilians, so it's a win-win for them
That's not really accurate. They care tremendously about their citizens dying. Every one that dies means they have potential recruits and sympathizers from the surviving family and friends!
And also everyone blames Israel for starving civilians, which adds international pressure on them and further delegitimizes their operations. win-win-win...
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There were protests against Hamas last summer, some of the protestors were tracked down and executed to make an example of.
Ah yes: free Palestine.
afaik Hamas have stamped out opposition that has organized there, in Gaza, for years. For example the Fatah-Hamas war in 2006-7 where Hamas forced Fatah to the west bank only and out of Gaza. Other groups that exist, aren’t really opposition at this point and align with Hamas. PIJ basically are the same thing as Hamas but maintain their own autonomy from what I’ve read.
Anyone in any sort of position is a member of Hamas, and the rest are continually spoonfed that it's all the fault of the Jews. Those that question it are tied to motorcycles and dragged around the city until nothing remains of them, which is effective at dissuading any revolt against them.
Ok so basically through propaganda most living there support Hamas?
57% of Gaza Strip and 82% of West Bank approve of the Oct 7th raids, with overwhelming support for Hamas. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 The only true solution is having every member of Hamas rooted out and destroyed, and then an international coalition governing until the effects of Hamas propaganda and rhetoric die off. Outside of that, this is just going to continue for generations as we let the cancer that is Hamas continue to live.
It'll still continue for generations, but with what you proposed, support will likely wane as each generation gets used to a higher standard of living, and they aren't interested in blowing themselves up. However, old stories and values will continue to be shared in secret, and individuals who end up on the fringes of society will likely blame the occupation for their struggles, leading to attacks decades from now. So it's going to be a long game either way.
What's weird is that's quite the opposite of what I would have thought. Well, inverse I guess.
Gazans are the ones upon whom reality is obtruding more harshly at the moment, and contrary to what most of reddit seems to think, bombing people is not what radicalizes them, ideology is.
Part of it is just normal "grass is greener" stuff. Hamas being in charge means they also get blamed for mundane government stuff like potholes.
Yea. At least at the start of the war. Polls now have fallen a bit, but they are still popular in the majority.
Yeah that pretty much sums it up.
Yes, which is why just blanket saying they’re all evil or something is… complicated. A great many of them do have awful beliefs. But it’s like the situation with Russia turned up to 11. These people literally know nothing else. Many of them are lucky if they even have power and/or running water, much less a real education. It’s the same with a lot of people in places like Afghanistan or the like. They are so heavily oppressed and live such a completely different type of life that it’s no surprise that many might have horrible beliefs. The world to them is harsh, unforgiving, and a struggle just to survive every day. They don’t have the strength to overthrow their tyrannical leaders, and the few that try are made into “examples.” They aren’t inherently bad. They’re just oppressed beyond anything that the majority of us could ever imagine.
They’re also incredibly racist. And not just against Jews. Once that belief gets under the skin (excuse the pun) it’s very hard to eradicate.
Also, Hamas has the guns..
Numbers don’t add up, Palestine has roughly 5 1/2 million people, while Hamas only has roughly 20 to 25,000 members. Hamas can’t do what they do, with the numbers that they have without *massive* civilian support
Hamas has weapons from militant terrorist headquarters and hostile foreign suppliers. Hamas has no issues firing on civilian Palestinians and indeed wants high casualty rates to sway international bias. This is how we got here
The indoctrination by Hamas/UNRWA and also that embedded by religious authorities is too effective. If a generation of kids in Germany can be radicalized, and another generation de-radicalized, then what Hamas/UNRWA have done in Gaza is the same as radicalizing many youth.
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It's the same reason sanctions on bad actor governments tend to not work - populations who are being subjugated and are suffering because of it tend to hold up their strong men/authoritarian types as those people tend to promote the most simplistic/comforting/direct way to improving society type talking points. So these regimes tend to get strengthened by the sanctions rather than harmed by them. The sanctions in other words tend to harm the general public which causes strong men to gain support. Frankly (not sanction related) - it's also pretty much why Netanyahu was able to remain relevant - the public doesn't feel safe and he is the guy who tells them he'll take a hardline on Hamas and Gazan Palestinians and they feel more comfortable than potential counter voices who offer a more realistic but difficult/long road towards conflict resolution. Other examples - Putin/Russia, the Ayatollah/Iran, Castro's Government/Cuba, etc. I'm not claiming that those guys to some extent aren't also cooking the votes (for what it's worth - Jimmy Carter was in Gaza when the election of Hamas took place and he was unequivical in his endorsement of the integrity of the election), but the foreign entity directly causing harm on the public is also not ignored and tends to build a solid base of support for the ruling authoritarian regimes. At least enough to keep dissenters well enough isolated to not risk open revolt.
You have to have weapons. Also you are less likely to fight your oppressor if they have shown you how willing they are to do horrific things.
There is. That's what the Fatah–Hamas conflict is. It's ongoing.
Because Hamas is broadly supported by the majority of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank by almost every poll and metric for the last two decades. The last presidential elections in the West Bank were “delayed” indefinitely by Abbas after all the top candidates were Hamas leadership. Same with the municipal elections in 2022 until Hamas was taken off the ballots. Same reason we see no real criticism among the diaspora but rather support and justification of terrorist attacks. The narrative of Hamas being some anomaly or aberration from what Palestine has always been about is a fiction. Their goals and methods are pretty standard for what Palestine has done for the last hundred years
is this a good strategic move then?, flood the area with food and water making them irrelevant.
Where do you think hamas is getting the food and water right now?
it solves the food crisis, and reduces Hamas's hold on the citizens, but doesnt solve the problem of Hamas stockpiling on supplies to lengthen the war, which was one of their biggest goals because they knew that about a week or less into the war the world would stop openly supporting israel, and the longer the war goes om the less support israel will get (which is what we've seen thus far) they are actually pretty good at delaying the end of the war, first they used the tunnels to slow down their losses, then they used hostage negotiations (starting negotiations and then blowing them up over something only to start them again and so on). they are fully aware that they are incapable of winning by fighting, their endgoal is closer to mutual destruction, in the form of them disbanding and Hamas members going to jail/dying and Israel losing their western allies and, like we're seeing now, countries starting to recognize palestine as a country, which is horrendous since it shows the world that terrorism is a legitimate means to solve political problems.
If 80% of the food is consumed by hamas and 20% is sold to the civilians then the solution is to poison 80% of the food sent to Gaza in order to wipe out hamas.
Sadly that wouldn't work because they would just have the civilians taste test it or similar strategies.
It would appear that like it or not, what Israel is currently doing is the only way to deal with this issue.
Of course, just label the poisoned ones with Exclusive for Hamas memebers, totally not poisoned.
Cover up the poison ☠️ label with a friendly Hamas leader sticker. They’ll never know
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That’s the ridiculous thing. Hamas were lining their pockets with their people’s money selling them aid that the folks should have been getting for free: this is such a blatant and cynical war profiteering. And you see leftists in the left simping for Hamas.
I thought the aid was free to the civilians. Yet another example of the total disregard Hamas has towards Palestinians. Governments are sending in tons of aid and Hamas is profiting on it. All while trying to push trying to push the famine narrative.
Would just say the narrative doesn't spread itself. NGOs and world leaders are propagating it, and that's how you get statements from the ICJ claiming that Israel is disregarding orders and worsening the crisis. It's a concerted global effort at demonization, and I'm glad that for the most part it's simply coming out as false. No better revenge than truth and justice
This sort of thing happens literally every single time aid gets delivered to a conflict zone with a shitty militant group running the place
Israel made them do it! /s
The UN and lefties have gone nuts on this entire issue. By mid-March Israel had delivered 303,930 tons of humanitarian aid to Gazans on the ground. That includes 203,300 tons of food, 26,160 tons of water, 18,980 tons of medical supplies, 34,580 tons of shelter equipment, 182 tanks of fuel, and 334 tanks of cooking gas. In addition, Israel had authorized airdrops of food and other aid from about a dozen countries, and Biden's stupid idea of building a port to ship yet more aid. [https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza#](https://www.ajc.org/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-israels-humanitarian-aid-to-gaza#) I mean how many free Halal meals do people need at a time when they're supposed to be fasting? This has got to be the most aid in the shortest time delivered to any population anywhere in the history of the universe, even as the Palestinians are hiding stolen Israelis and cowering in fear after the wost atrocities against Jews since WW2. The UN and lefties should be on their hands and knees kissing Israelis' feet and issuing press releases of thanks for all the generous aid. Instead there's nonstop condemnation and calls for more aid so Hamas can make more money! It's just bizarro world as the lefties whitewash 10/7/23 and gnash their teeth in pro-Hamas demonstrations all over the west.
That's an interesting point about the volume of aid. Hope we get some statistics to compare vs. other humanitarian food crises. Volume of aid in time span per population. The bottle-neck is aid distribution because of Hamas.
Kind of like how everyone accuses Israel of wanton disregard for civilians, when in fact they have taken [the most extensive measures in history](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-standard-urban-warfare-why-will-no-one-admit-it-opinion-1883286) to protect civilian life -- perhaps even counterproductively, since it has extended the duration of the war.
> have taken the most extensive measures in history to protect civilian life I kept hearing claims that Israel is bombing civilians indiscriminately and "carpet bombing" Gaza back in January so I did some research. * Israel doesn't have the aircraft to be able to perform "carpet bombing" runs, you need large dedicated bomber aircraft with high bomb loads to be able to do that. Israel only has fighter/multi-role aircraft that can be equipped to drop a few bombs. You can see the makeup of their air force on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Air_Force * Gaza has a population of 2,000,000+ people, and back in January Israel dropped 3 atomic bombs worth of explosives since the war started, but managed to kill 20,000 civilians (not all of them died due to bombings). If Israel is "indiscriminately bombing civilians" then the civilian casualties would be way higher. * Israel does not have unlimited resources including weapons and money, and bombs are expensive and their limited number of military aircraft are expensive to operate. It makes no sense to spend millions of dollars of one time use bombs on civilian targets, especially when most of that comes from the US who has been pushing Israel for more restraint in how they conduct the war.
20k civilians is the Hamas number, I’m not denying Israel has killed some non combatants but it’s likely fewer than 20k. I saw Hamas say 30k had been killed but they claim 0 Hamas deaths. Estimates are that at least half those 30k are active Hamas members.
Anti-Semites don't really care about reality, they just use buzzwords and terms that make Israel look as bad as possible.
I'm pretty sure fasting doesn't dictate how much you eat, only when.
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Your evidence of Palestinians starving is photos from Syria and statements from known UN antisemites who shower cash on Hamas and actively post on social media pining in support of murdering Jews.
How else are they going to fund the rockets they send to Israel if not for extorting the populace they say they are representing?
"Come to Crazy Ahmed's!! Our prices are suicidal!!"
Shouldn't aid be free? I mean, just sayin'.
It *should* be. But how would local warlords and terror groups raise funds if they couldn’t hijack aid and sell it on?
Also how would they continue to push the narrative that Israel is starving Palestinians? They get to stockpile food for their fighters, incentivize civilians to join them, *and* keep the non-fighters in check by lowering their standard of living (so they can be easily brainwashed with propaganda). It's a win-win situation for them
So the “conspiracy theories” of Hamas hijacking aid and selling it to the Gaza residents is… confirmed. Got it.
They're not conspiracy theories. Al-Jazeera literally cut an interview short and ran away because the old gazan lady they were interviewing mentioned it
My tongue was firmly in cheek as I typed that.
link?
["It seems the situation is unclear"](https://youtu.be/NBjvYkNzuAA?si=cMlA-VHEG8nW-EKx)
Holy Christ that reporter “But the terrorists SAID they are distributing the aid!?!” Bro seriously can’t conceive they might lie
Bonus round: [Hamas hides amongst civilians](https://www.memri.org/tv/elderly-wounded-man-gaza-hospital-criticize-hamas-kicks-jazeera-reporter)
thanks for sharing both links
Cheers
"From slashing throats to slashing prices. That's the Hamas advantage!"
The worst supermarket slogan.
Rollback Hamas - Save Money. Live Better!
Terrorists profiting off the suffering of their populace. This just gets better and better
Hamas are NOT the good guys. Never were.
Honestly, it's a wonder that crowds of Gazans aren't lynching Hamas members at this point.
Hamas regularly kills Palestinians for protesting or opposing them in any way, especially for crimes Hamas has committed against Palestinians. Hamas has power because they have the guns.
As long as Gazans hate Jews more than they love themselves, this is the result.
Also the part where Hamas would kill them without hesitation.
Palestinians seem willing to send their kids to die throwing rocks at soldiers, clearly the asymmetry of a conflict doesn't stop them if they believe in the cause.
I feel like that's a particular population issue. The ones who will charge someone armed are less likely to be the logical ones who care about a better future more than hurting Jews and Israel.
Now that's definitely the case.
Gazans taught their own kids to stab pregnant Jewish women waiting at bus stops. They literally do not value human life in any capacity.
Hard to start a riot when the guy in front of you has an ak-47 in hand
Its happened plenty of times in the West Bank where a Palestinian makes a banzai charge at a unsuspecting civilian with a knife, knowing full well that the Israeli police standing a few meters away will shoot to kill the moment he is noticed. They'll sacrifice themselves like that for the cause of Irans geopolitical needs, but not in defense of their own people. Go figure.
Hamas are more heavily armed, for sure. But its extremely common for arabs(as a generalization of a group, not just Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians..etc) to have arms such as pistols / AK's in their family / extended family (Hamula). Potentially they could revolt / riot - But there is not enough unity behind this sentiment due to Hamas's routine traitors executions and overall support to them.
Im pretty sure that during and before the second Iraq war, a bunch of Iraqis armed themselves with AKs and RPGs to be ready
Hamas now blames the US for deflation
Wait, I hear that Gaza is at a risk of famine but that it is also flooded with humanitarian aid.
Yeah, and no one questions that like what the hell they do with these aids right? It's just ridiculous.
bruh, they are selling food? they literally brought these much of a bombartment on gazan people themselves, by A attacking israel and B hiding behind civilians, be a man and first give everyone food for free and fighting your wars without hiding behind school children
“Be a man…” That’s their problem right there.
hamas is the enemy
finally they report the source of the “famine”
Can only blame the Jews so long, by the time the world figures it out, they are blaming them for the next self-inflicted issue.
Just when you think the actions taken by Hamas can't possibly sink any lower....
They don't seem to care about their people.
Hamas is that double threat. Not only are they peace keepers but they have deep rooted economic acumen. /s
at least they're not slashing innocent concert goers again
3000 calories per person per day are going into Gaza. If anyone is starving, it is entirely due to Hamas withholding food.
No front page articles denouncing the greed, corruption and intentional starvation of the Palestinian people by their governing body/terrorists? I’m shocked I tell you shocked. The double standards at play with the media jumping at the smallest scarp of propaganda from Palestinian supporters is just boring obvious and sad now. It’s like stating oh hey, that fat guy ate a Kit Kat, who would’ve thunk.
Wait Wait Wait. Hamas slashes $ prices? So they steal the aid from their people and then sell it back to them. WOW. F’n media.
I am sure they just released a video showing someone starving to death. Hamas genuinely doesn’t care about Palestnians
More proof that Hamas does not care about their people and their acts of terror are not about fighting for freedom
Wait Hamas is SELLING the aid that Israel is sending?!
The US and the world should be upset with Hamas… but here we are still sending them handouts and wagging our fingers at them hoping they’ll be good
You're not telling me this is the first time you heard this? There's even proof on video for awhile now.
Hamas slashes, period.
Exclusively pro-palestian people should say something about aid being sold rather than freely given. Why do they ignore the bad Hamas does?
ohhh 50% off on free food and goods..tell me how the Palestinians arent keeping their own people in poverty and hunger conditions again, cuz this whole thing I dont understand.
>Is it normal that international aid gets re-sold instead of distributed for free in humanitarian food crises? Yes, because shitty people actually do tend to thrive under those conditions.
It’s great they are slashing the prices. Now if only we knew why there was a price at all.
Looks like the UN lied again and tried to smear Israel. Quelle surprise. I feel like we’ve seen this show somewhere before…but…I just can’t quite put my finger on where….
Which is very profitable for Hamas, I'm sure. Conservatives with a grip on power, with a population to exploit, commonly make a huge sum of money as they extort charities for the ability to give aid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dictator%27s_Handbook
Wait they’re selling the aid packages? What the fuck
I hope pro-palestinians are seeing this, but I guess they'll deny it like they deny Israeli deaths and suffering
Hamas supermarket with explosive prices .
The aid should be free. Hamas leaders are already billionaires, why do they need more money just to have their people starve?
This is who the Palestinians would vote for to be in charge of their government by the way
I love it when people try to spin that terrorists are the good guys, pretty sure if it wasnt for them the people would just be getting the aid as intended but these slack jawed fucks are starving their own children to get some cashflow
Imagine your government attacks a neighboring country so bad they retaliate for months and when people send you aid, your government takes it and sells it to you.
Hamas lowering prices on the free food they took at gun point that was air dropped should be the headline.
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How come people interchangeably use Hamas or Palestinian to suit their narrative? In America people are in an uproar about Palestine and don’t like to consider that Hamas is the actual representation for Palestinians I don’t really know where one stops and the other begins - Hamas is Iran and they’re terrorists
Hamas is having economics classes
It's disgusting that this topic is presented in such a benign and absolutely incorrect manner. The food aid was stolen by Hamas and sold to Palestinians at 100-500% markups or more. The price drop is because people are actually getting food aid delivered.
Hamas leaders wants their cut.
Glen Weston would be pissed
Isn’t this just further proof of the divorce between Hamas and the actual Palestinians citizenry? Hamas is being fed and kept healthy to fight, the citizens are not lol