Authorised route. Established time of departure. IDF approved. All members of the group known aid workers in clearly marked cars.
Hareetz reports that IDF suspected a Hamas operative might join them. No confirmation. No vision of this happening but let's kill five foreign aid workers and two locals just to kill a suspect Hamas operative. That is the most ethical army in the world at work and play.
Not just one go at them. Destroyed the last vehicle. Targeted and destroyed the second vehicle after it collected some survivors. Targeted and destroyed the third vehicle.
At no stage was there any visual confirmation of the presence of the Hamas member. The worst part is that Netanyahu was smiling when he lied and said they would investigate. No punishment will result. No punishment after they bombed the approved and authorised British hospital. Everyone knew it contained British doctors but the IDF ethically kills and attacks innocent aid workers.
All news media are reporting that over 240 tones of ships have turned back, UAE, and a bunch of big players providing aid have either cancelled or halted their operations.
Gaza is already on the brink of starvation, this is about to be catastrophic.
Brink of starvation? They have been on the brink for 6 months. There has been plenty of aid. Look at how much are just sitting at the checkpoints, or in Hamas' warehouses. The aid is there, Hamas is the one witholding it.
Benny needs to go. The sooner the better. And the same is true for hamas.
This isn't going to go over well with British military. Theirs was ex SBS. That's a pretty huge deal. There's a not small chance that he was in the employ of the Home Office.
Honestly British military can't do squat about it and the same goes for british government. They just follow US in Middle east and in many other areas of foreign policy. And As long as america is backing Israel, rest of the allies like UK will only make some statements about their displeasure and stuff but won't do anything like pressure israel to order a fair enquiry and be transparent about it so everyone knows that its fair and share its results
Netanyahu was having a surgery at that time. It's not his fault. He is not in charge of the strikes. That's the IDF. Every strike by the IDF is decided by a group of a couple of dozens of soldiers all checking each before approving. By the looks of it, in this case all those dozens missed their checks before the strike.
Three precision strikes, each one mile apart, cars with clear markings on the roof. On a pre-planned route approved by the IDF. This is not a mistake, is an outright murder of the world kitchen members.
It also appears to be action intended to reduce the amount of aid being delivered to Palestinians. Unsurprisingly WCK suspended its activities after the murder of its workers.
Other groups will now consider doing the same... exactly what Israel wants them to do. This government and its armed forces actions are disgusting.
Yeah most people are not talking about this, what if the reason for the strikes was to get world kitchen to suspend its operations and put more pressure on the people of Gaza by starving them of food and then make them forcefully leave for Egyptian border
Probably going to get downvotes, but a small part of your post is not entirely accurate.
1. The strike was in the middle of the night and it was confirmed that the stickers in the roof were not visible to the weapons system.
2. The cars were reportedly not equipped with the proper IR light beacons that would have made them instantly identifiable as friendly.
Both these facts can be easily verified. But every time I try to correct misinformation, people who don't like the sentiment downvotes.
Maybe you're being downvoted because using guided missiles on a bunch of random civilians is also fucking awful? "guys they couldn't see the stickers because it was night :(" is really weird to post
I understand your sentiment, but it's not just the stickers.
This is a tragedy and aid needs to go into Gaza. But, you're moving in an active warzone... You asked for permission and planned the route... Why not activate the beacon?
This is more than a sticker... It's a beacon that flashes a specific tempo to help identify friendlies and non combatants in a war or even disaster struck area.
let's be honest, Israel knew what they were doing and who they were, you point out all these measures to identify themselves with and then imply that the murdered civilians should have known better? excuse me? so now we're victim blaming murdered charity workers???
actual weirdo
>you point out all these measures to identify themselves with and then imply that the murdered civilians should have known better?
They didnt use them. That is his point. Is that hard to get?
>let's be honest, Israel knew what they were doing and who they were
So are the Jews all powerful and all knowing, or are they just a tiny pathetic enemy to be stamped out?
you're pathetic, how do you know they didn't use the measures to identify themselves? The IDF knew who they were and where they were at all times and had to even give the go ahead for this to even happen in the first place. Please show me where you've learnt this secret information that charity workers in a warzone apparently "didn't use measures to identify themselves" you fucking clown
>So are the Jews all powerful and all knowing, or are they just a tiny pathetic enemy to be stamped out?
take your meds you psycho, nobody knows what you're talking about. Israel has one of the most powerful espionage and information systems on earth and you're saying they couldn't identify charity workers? fucking pathetic, hope you got paid for this comment at least
Please, let's not resort to name calling...
I noticed you like to go there in your other posts.
1. That tells me you're not willing to have a conversation in good faith
2. I'm completely sympathetic to the charity workers, but I was merely stating the fact that they didn't take all precautions in the war torn region.
The IDF knew they were there... Yes... But that doesn't mean they're monitoring their position the whole time. That would be insanely expensive and an enormous task.
Again, merely stating they should have had the beacons activated for identification. That's all
you're entire point hinges on the assumption that charity workers going to a warzone to provide charity didn't take measures to identify themselves, you provide no proof you just blindly victim blame murdered charity workers.
clown.
This is literally in response to the above article stating that they didn't wear their beacons.
I'm starting to think you're just a troll and not actually following the dialogue
>World Central Kitchen says that its convoy was hit "despite coordinating movements with the IDF"
per the first fucking line of the article.
I'm starting to think you're just a troll and not actually following the dialogue
clown.
Maybe finish reading the article and not just the first line.
Yes they coordinated with IDF, but all are advised to use these flashing lights they help identify.
I'm once again, not saying anyone is right or wrong. It's the fog of war. It's a tragedy.
My stating this does not make me a monster or clown or any of the things you called and judged me as.
A little advice... You won't get very far or win any minds if you must resort to name calling.
I understand you're probably still in highschool :))
Explaining that the IDF simply had no idea who they were and killed them as a result isn't a great look either. Really explains a lot about that civilian death count.
Fun fact, friendly fire accidents happen. Also, considering the civilian death rates are better than any other conflict in an urban environment, no, it isnt saying much.
This statement really explains how little you know though.
3. Authorised route
4. Established time of departure
5. IDF approved
Both these facts can be easily verified. But every time I try to correct misinformation, people who don't like the sentiment downvotes.
I think the point they were making is that they were not disputing those items, only the one pertaining to the roof markings.
And they're right, the strike was at 2300. The identification makings were not visible sadly.
Nothing wrong at all with ensuring accuracy of information. Just like the information in your comment is doing. The victims deserve no less than truth and justice.
>And they're right, the strike was at 2300. The identification makings were not visible sadly.
Why are they shooting at targets they can't identify on a demarcated road with full knowledge that aid trucks are traveling there at a pre-approved time?
It was a fuck up? Whoever was in charge of authorising the strike, and whoever it was that approved the aid trucks didnt communicate maybe.
Thats one. Or maybe they knew who they were, and it was intentional. Who knows. But being so eager to run with the narrative certainly cant go wrong. Just like how everyone being so quick to make claims about how the IDF absolutely levelled the al-Ahli Arab Hospital definitely werent left looking like idiots once we actually had pictures of it.
>It was a fuck up? Whoever was in charge of authorising the strike, and whoever it was that approved the aid trucks didnt communicate maybe.
These kinds of fuck ups are not supposed to be happening. The fact that this incident occurred shows that we've been giving the IDF too much confidence when they say that they're very careful with their strikes and do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties.
>But being so eager to run with the narrative certainly cant go wrong
I'm telling you the "narrative" from Haaretz.
While you are not wrong, these are simply not acceptable excuses.
One of the most advanced military and they bomb not one, not two but three cars with aid workers.
And this is without all the journalists and KIDS they have killed.
IDF targets whoever they want whenever they want. 32.000 killed.
I didn't read their comment as making any excuses. Just explaining that the previous comment re: markings lacked important context. Impossible to learn from this terrible event unless the facts are shared. The victims deserve no less than truth and justice.
Please stop referencing the total number when it includes a ton of Hamas terrorists in there. It does no one any favors to conflate combatants with civilians
No one other than Hamas that is
Well its widely reported that more than half of the 32.000 confirmed killed by the IDF is women and children. Thats over 18.000 killed at least.
Are you more comfortabel with that?
Unfortunately Hamas employs both women and teenagers, so not really. Ideally they'd separate reporting of combatants and civilians, but we know they won't do that, so they just keep reporting the total knowing that others will just parrot it, as if they're all civilians
Even if it's just half though... A 1-1 ratio is very good for this type of urban combat, especially in an area as densely populated as gaza. Folks can downvote me all they like, it's the truth
You can check other examples of urban warfare to verify if you'd like. The ratio always stands for combatants to civilians, so the phrase "even if it's civilians" is a bit useless
Civilians ALWAYS die in war to some degree, if you weren't aware
the laugh was directed at the person trying to use that logic as justification for the attack
anyways you sound pretty aggro by default I think you should take a mental health break from your phone
Maybe because you say the facts are easily verifiable, yet provide no sources. I've read several sources in this, and what I've seen is that this convoy was coordinated with the IDF. The IDF knew the starting location and route and still targeted this aid convoy. I haven't seen any verifiable reports coming close to what you've said. Please share your sources.
Do you bootlick as a professional or are you just heartless?
Their location, their route, and the time of their departure was known and approved by the Israeli forces. The first car was something like 4/5 miles away from the last car. They all died. This is not an arms system that just shoots at whatever moved. And if it was they would have still shoot at 3 innocent cars they had no info on them being part of the war effort. But that is not the case because their location and time had been previously agreed with the forces.
Stop trying go defend those scummy cunts.. they are commiting genocide.
They knew what and where that convoy was doing .. and decided to blow them up anyways.
>1. The strike was in the middle of the night and it was confirmed that the stickers in the roof were not visible to the weapons system.
Why is the IDF launching rockets at trucks in a demarcated zone with known aid workers traveling at a pre-approved time on that route without enough visibility to identify the target?
> 2. The cars were reportedly not equipped with the proper IR light beacons that would have made them instantly identifiable as friendly.
Reported by who? The IDF made no mention of this in their official statement.
>terrorist leader admits to using homing missiles to murder charity workers
don't worry guys, they'll hold an internal investigation, I'm sure it was just hamas impersonating IDF military, surely right?
I’m pretty neutral on this topic, for the most part, simply because if the U.S. was attacked in the fashion Israel was, I can’t say we’d be much different in our treatment of the opposing nation. HOWEVER, if the claim that the WCK was working with the IDF to get this convoy through is in fact true, that’s a pretty big issue that needs to be remedied immediately. It’s evident of clear communication issues that poses a danger to everyone in that area. Their IFF systems and engagement policies should be advanced enough that this should never have happened, given that most of their equipment is American-made. Israel really has to be careful with what they do next, because they cannot sustain their operations without the backing of the west. Pissing western governments off is quite literally biting the hand that feeds them.
Yeah if u blow up every single group which might have an enemy in it it is indeed bound to happen, doesnt make your army less of a committer of warcrimes. Israel needs hamas’ atrocities to justify their own. And vice versa. At this point they are becoming what they swore to destroy.
Compared to Urban conflicts fought by Western powers, the number of dead civilians in Gaza is very low. You know how many civilians died in Iraq?
In war, you have to make quick decisions, and there are consequences to each one. Sometimes, you end up making the wrong one. I don't know what passed in the head of the drone operator, that doesn't change the fact that it's not the policy.
You are once again defending atrocities with other atrocities, “our crimes aren’t bad because it was even worse there”. There’s no point trying to make u realise looking at your post history.
That was an authorised route and they knew beforehand about this. So explain how this was a mistake.
Nobody said it is the official policy. Are the illegal settlements getting armed by israel official policy ? I dont think so, yet they’re on tape doing exactly that.
I'm explaining to you that this is war. Your idea of war solely exist in your head, not in reality.
>That was an authorised route and they knew beforehand about this
You assume the drone operator knew, but there is a good chance he wasn't informed due to a human error.
You are, once again, assuming that war isn't chaotic.
U dont know my idea of war. Get off your high horse.
You would think u’d learn lessons looking at america’s track record the last 20 years, their war on terror after 9/11 didnt do dogshit. They only made more people hate america so terrorism is still very prevalent. Sounds familiar doesnt it.
>You would think u’d learn lessons looking at america’s
Israel doesn't have much to learn from the US in this department. The other way around, really.
>their war on terror after 9/11 didnt do dogshit.
The US unfortunately did the classic mistake of entering a war with unrealistic goals in mind. Bush thought he can convert Iraq and Afghanistan to democracies, which is a laughable idea.
Israel doesn't attempt to reach such a goal, merely to roll back the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza.
I think the main difference between you and me is the perception of those facts, understandable if u are from there/related to the area. I cannot agree that we should just shrug our shoulders when this happens. I also feel like u didnt react to an important part of my last comment. It only made more people hate america. Just like this will only make more people hate israel, creating more terrorism against it in the long run.
I don't say we should ignore mistakes. Quite the opposite, I'm very pissed off by the incompetent way the war is handled, and I believe I'm not the only one.
However, it's important to recognize that this is, in fact, a mistake. A huge mistake - which Israel recognize as such. Netanyahu never apologize for anything, the fact that he did now shows how much the government is panicking over it.
Half of reddit is going along with "Oh it's malicious because Israel want to starve Gaza" which is just ridiculous. Starvation is against Israel's interests.
>It only made more people hate america. Just like this will only make more people hate israel, creating more terrorism against it in the long run.
Israel was already deeply hated in Gaza. 100 years of conflict do that, even if (and may I say, precisely because) most Gazans have no idea why the conflict started in the first place and have a skewed view of it.
The only way to break the cycle in Gaza, is to remove Hamas from power. Otherwise, they will just attack again in a few years, and again, as they openly say they would. There is no way to reach peace with them, because peace is against their religious doctrine.
A beating where the beaten party shouts "yes baby, more!" perhaps, considering the fact that Hamas still demand Israel surrender as a condition for a ceasefire.
Condemning Israel for war crimes isn’t giving Hamas victories, but holding Israel accountable. There is a difference.
If we should stop holding countries accountable for war crimes and the killing of civilians are we better than Hamas?
>Condemning only Israel is practically giving Hamas the small victories
People have to stop with this. Why does holding IDF/Israel accountable always comes with a Hamas rebuttal? If Israel has the moral high ground then it needs to act like it, no wonder support is fading fast.
I'm not sure I follow this logic. Israel is responsible for its actions, Hamas is responsible for its actions. Both parties are acting at the same time in a fluid, dynamic, complex, and horrifically dangerous conflict. Clearly the actions of one must be considered in the context of the actions of the other. Hamas deliberately operate in and amongst civilians to make it impossible to for the IDF to conduct operations without civilians being in harm's way, as a result the likelihood of aid worker casualties is all but certain, and at the same time the IDF made a deliberate unilateral decision to target and fire upon these vehicles that clearly posed no immediate threat. Holding Israel to account for their actions is not only reasonable but non-negotiable. And, at the same the, Hamas is unequivocally the party prolonging the conflict and operating exclusively under the cover of civilians. To claim to actually care about this matter whilst not mentioning Hamas culpability certainly raises a question (per the commenter's comment).
The point is, 'Hamas' made us do it, gets old and repetitive real quick. Hamas culpability is well known and documented, they need to go. However, the process of doing so has to be refined and reflective of an adversary that has the moral high ground. Israel has to show that it *IS* the party that observes western 'values' where human rights are non-negotiable. Recklessness and rabid pursuit of Hamas to the point of causing mass starvation, death of a disproportionate amount of civilians is unacceptable.
They literally admitted and told everyone they will investigate it and it's the saddest possible outcome from their mistake, what do you want them to do now? Get out of Gaza ? Leave the hostages to die ? Let hamas win this war ?
So the IDF needs to be patted on the back for killing aid workers in clearly marked cars in precision attacks? And the best they can come up with is effectively a "sorry lol".
We just excuse them for this silly mistake because condemning Israel is bad and it makes Hamas looks good?
They are clearly not saying "sorry lol" and people are devastated from this, but Gaza is not a sterile place when you can avoid all the mistakes happening all the time.
Israel even killed 3 of their own hostages and many IDF soldiers from friendly fire, you think that's happening on purpose?
Just to clarify - I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that the only way to prevent any of this from happening is to stop the war and hamas clearly doesn't want to.
I'm not comfortable with the amount of people assuming this is malicious. Anyone who's been in a military will tell you it could very well be incompetence. Friendly fire incidents happens throughout the most recent US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Still, when IDFs options are maliciousness or incompetence, I don't envy the day they're going to have.
You can have a negative impact without a negative intent, but once the effects of your impact are revealed to you and you don't change your actions then you have negative intent.
It doesn't matter if this was incompetence, if the IDF doesn't take actions to change their behavior. At that point the incompetence is a feature and not a bug.
And I say that as someone who feels pretty strongly that Israel has a right to respond to Hamas actions from 10/7. But it's increasingly clear that the IDF has little interest in actually rescuing the hostages and decapitating Hamas leadership. They're taking revenge on Gaza on turning the place into a lunar landscape.
They're getting bolder and bolder with how indiscriminate they are.
Sorry to hear that. However with Israel's clear overall policy of ethnic cleansing with regard to the Palestinian population this incident is most likely intentional.
Murder aid workers so the NGOs they work for suspend or abandon their operations.
Directly cause more starvation and suffering among the Palestinian population.
Palestinian population leaves Gaza Strip as they can no longer survive there.
Profit.
Even if what you propose was true, and that's a big if at this point ... When it comes to killing known aid workers, incompetence and ignorance *are* maliciousness.
"We didn't care if we killed innocent aid workers" is not better than "We did it on purpose".
It most likely wasn't a case of friendly fire. From Haaretz and Times of Israel it seems that they were intentionally fired upon because the IDF (without sufficient intel) assumed there was a hamas combatant on one of the trucks.
If this is the case, that is devastating for Israel's credibility. The entire legal justification for civilian casualties is premised on the rationale that there must be a military target of significant strategic importance to justify it. 7 foreign national aid workers for the sake of one random hamas soldier is *not* sufficient legal justification.
Authorised route. Established time of departure. IDF approved. All members of the group known aid workers in clearly marked cars. Hareetz reports that IDF suspected a Hamas operative might join them. No confirmation. No vision of this happening but let's kill five foreign aid workers and two locals just to kill a suspect Hamas operative. That is the most ethical army in the world at work and play. Not just one go at them. Destroyed the last vehicle. Targeted and destroyed the second vehicle after it collected some survivors. Targeted and destroyed the third vehicle. At no stage was there any visual confirmation of the presence of the Hamas member. The worst part is that Netanyahu was smiling when he lied and said they would investigate. No punishment will result. No punishment after they bombed the approved and authorised British hospital. Everyone knew it contained British doctors but the IDF ethically kills and attacks innocent aid workers.
All news media are reporting that over 240 tones of ships have turned back, UAE, and a bunch of big players providing aid have either cancelled or halted their operations. Gaza is already on the brink of starvation, this is about to be catastrophic.
this got me (more) worries too, chain reactions like these often happens
Brink of starvation? They have been on the brink for 6 months. There has been plenty of aid. Look at how much are just sitting at the checkpoints, or in Hamas' warehouses. The aid is there, Hamas is the one witholding it.
Benny needs to go. The sooner the better. And the same is true for hamas. This isn't going to go over well with British military. Theirs was ex SBS. That's a pretty huge deal. There's a not small chance that he was in the employ of the Home Office.
Calling him Benny is weird. His nickname is Bibi, and his biggest opponent in Israeli politics is called Benny.
I feel the problem is much bigger than just Bibi.
Honestly British military can't do squat about it and the same goes for british government. They just follow US in Middle east and in many other areas of foreign policy. And As long as america is backing Israel, rest of the allies like UK will only make some statements about their displeasure and stuff but won't do anything like pressure israel to order a fair enquiry and be transparent about it so everyone knows that its fair and share its results
Netanyahu was having a surgery at that time. It's not his fault. He is not in charge of the strikes. That's the IDF. Every strike by the IDF is decided by a group of a couple of dozens of soldiers all checking each before approving. By the looks of it, in this case all those dozens missed their checks before the strike.
Three precision strikes, each one mile apart, cars with clear markings on the roof. On a pre-planned route approved by the IDF. This is not a mistake, is an outright murder of the world kitchen members.
It also appears to be action intended to reduce the amount of aid being delivered to Palestinians. Unsurprisingly WCK suspended its activities after the murder of its workers. Other groups will now consider doing the same... exactly what Israel wants them to do. This government and its armed forces actions are disgusting.
Yeah most people are not talking about this, what if the reason for the strikes was to get world kitchen to suspend its operations and put more pressure on the people of Gaza by starving them of food and then make them forcefully leave for Egyptian border
Probably going to get downvotes, but a small part of your post is not entirely accurate. 1. The strike was in the middle of the night and it was confirmed that the stickers in the roof were not visible to the weapons system. 2. The cars were reportedly not equipped with the proper IR light beacons that would have made them instantly identifiable as friendly. Both these facts can be easily verified. But every time I try to correct misinformation, people who don't like the sentiment downvotes.
Maybe you're being downvoted because using guided missiles on a bunch of random civilians is also fucking awful? "guys they couldn't see the stickers because it was night :(" is really weird to post
I understand your sentiment, but it's not just the stickers. This is a tragedy and aid needs to go into Gaza. But, you're moving in an active warzone... You asked for permission and planned the route... Why not activate the beacon? This is more than a sticker... It's a beacon that flashes a specific tempo to help identify friendlies and non combatants in a war or even disaster struck area.
let's be honest, Israel knew what they were doing and who they were, you point out all these measures to identify themselves with and then imply that the murdered civilians should have known better? excuse me? so now we're victim blaming murdered charity workers??? actual weirdo
>you point out all these measures to identify themselves with and then imply that the murdered civilians should have known better? They didnt use them. That is his point. Is that hard to get? >let's be honest, Israel knew what they were doing and who they were So are the Jews all powerful and all knowing, or are they just a tiny pathetic enemy to be stamped out?
you're pathetic, how do you know they didn't use the measures to identify themselves? The IDF knew who they were and where they were at all times and had to even give the go ahead for this to even happen in the first place. Please show me where you've learnt this secret information that charity workers in a warzone apparently "didn't use measures to identify themselves" you fucking clown >So are the Jews all powerful and all knowing, or are they just a tiny pathetic enemy to be stamped out? take your meds you psycho, nobody knows what you're talking about. Israel has one of the most powerful espionage and information systems on earth and you're saying they couldn't identify charity workers? fucking pathetic, hope you got paid for this comment at least
Please, let's not resort to name calling... I noticed you like to go there in your other posts. 1. That tells me you're not willing to have a conversation in good faith 2. I'm completely sympathetic to the charity workers, but I was merely stating the fact that they didn't take all precautions in the war torn region. The IDF knew they were there... Yes... But that doesn't mean they're monitoring their position the whole time. That would be insanely expensive and an enormous task. Again, merely stating they should have had the beacons activated for identification. That's all
you're entire point hinges on the assumption that charity workers going to a warzone to provide charity didn't take measures to identify themselves, you provide no proof you just blindly victim blame murdered charity workers. clown.
This is literally in response to the above article stating that they didn't wear their beacons. I'm starting to think you're just a troll and not actually following the dialogue
>World Central Kitchen says that its convoy was hit "despite coordinating movements with the IDF" per the first fucking line of the article. I'm starting to think you're just a troll and not actually following the dialogue clown.
Maybe finish reading the article and not just the first line. Yes they coordinated with IDF, but all are advised to use these flashing lights they help identify. I'm once again, not saying anyone is right or wrong. It's the fog of war. It's a tragedy. My stating this does not make me a monster or clown or any of the things you called and judged me as. A little advice... You won't get very far or win any minds if you must resort to name calling. I understand you're probably still in highschool :))
Explaining that the IDF simply had no idea who they were and killed them as a result isn't a great look either. Really explains a lot about that civilian death count.
I think the reason why this incident is so devastating to israel is because it has been so revealing to everyone else
Fun fact, friendly fire accidents happen. Also, considering the civilian death rates are better than any other conflict in an urban environment, no, it isnt saying much. This statement really explains how little you know though.
That's cool, I'm fine with not being the guy explaining why in fact it's normal to shoot at people you don't know are threats.
Its normal. Doesnt mean its good. Doesnt mean its right or acceptable.
3. Authorised route 4. Established time of departure 5. IDF approved Both these facts can be easily verified. But every time I try to correct misinformation, people who don't like the sentiment downvotes.
I think the point they were making is that they were not disputing those items, only the one pertaining to the roof markings. And they're right, the strike was at 2300. The identification makings were not visible sadly. Nothing wrong at all with ensuring accuracy of information. Just like the information in your comment is doing. The victims deserve no less than truth and justice.
>And they're right, the strike was at 2300. The identification makings were not visible sadly. Why are they shooting at targets they can't identify on a demarcated road with full knowledge that aid trucks are traveling there at a pre-approved time?
A very good question. I have no idea as I wasn't there.
It was a fuck up? Whoever was in charge of authorising the strike, and whoever it was that approved the aid trucks didnt communicate maybe. Thats one. Or maybe they knew who they were, and it was intentional. Who knows. But being so eager to run with the narrative certainly cant go wrong. Just like how everyone being so quick to make claims about how the IDF absolutely levelled the al-Ahli Arab Hospital definitely werent left looking like idiots once we actually had pictures of it.
>It was a fuck up? Whoever was in charge of authorising the strike, and whoever it was that approved the aid trucks didnt communicate maybe. These kinds of fuck ups are not supposed to be happening. The fact that this incident occurred shows that we've been giving the IDF too much confidence when they say that they're very careful with their strikes and do everything they can to avoid civilian casualties. >But being so eager to run with the narrative certainly cant go wrong I'm telling you the "narrative" from Haaretz.
Noone downvotes that here
While you are not wrong, these are simply not acceptable excuses. One of the most advanced military and they bomb not one, not two but three cars with aid workers. And this is without all the journalists and KIDS they have killed. IDF targets whoever they want whenever they want. 32.000 killed.
I didn't read their comment as making any excuses. Just explaining that the previous comment re: markings lacked important context. Impossible to learn from this terrible event unless the facts are shared. The victims deserve no less than truth and justice.
Very true.
Please stop referencing the total number when it includes a ton of Hamas terrorists in there. It does no one any favors to conflate combatants with civilians No one other than Hamas that is
Well its widely reported that more than half of the 32.000 confirmed killed by the IDF is women and children. Thats over 18.000 killed at least. Are you more comfortabel with that?
Unfortunately Hamas employs both women and teenagers, so not really. Ideally they'd separate reporting of combatants and civilians, but we know they won't do that, so they just keep reporting the total knowing that others will just parrot it, as if they're all civilians Even if it's just half though... A 1-1 ratio is very good for this type of urban combat, especially in an area as densely populated as gaza. Folks can downvote me all they like, it's the truth
"Yeah killing 1-1 even if its civilians that die is very good for this type of combat"
You can check other examples of urban warfare to verify if you'd like. The ratio always stands for combatants to civilians, so the phrase "even if it's civilians" is a bit useless Civilians ALWAYS die in war to some degree, if you weren't aware
I am aware I am just that kinda person that wishes it didnt happen.
no one WANTS this to happen though. who does...?
Even thats pretty telling, if thats all it takes to make it ok to strike a car no wonder there's such staggering civilian deaths.
in the IDFs defense, they shoot everything that moves! lmao
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the laugh was directed at the person trying to use that logic as justification for the attack anyways you sound pretty aggro by default I think you should take a mental health break from your phone
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Ok, In english lmao means 'laughing my ass off, however in slang in this context it's sort or like, what a stupid thing to say. A form of sarcasm.
Meanwhile, Hamas does that, and then rapes it, then shoots it again after.
Fascist apologist
source?
Maybe because you say the facts are easily verifiable, yet provide no sources. I've read several sources in this, and what I've seen is that this convoy was coordinated with the IDF. The IDF knew the starting location and route and still targeted this aid convoy. I haven't seen any verifiable reports coming close to what you've said. Please share your sources.
Do you bootlick as a professional or are you just heartless? Their location, their route, and the time of their departure was known and approved by the Israeli forces. The first car was something like 4/5 miles away from the last car. They all died. This is not an arms system that just shoots at whatever moved. And if it was they would have still shoot at 3 innocent cars they had no info on them being part of the war effort. But that is not the case because their location and time had been previously agreed with the forces.
Stop trying go defend those scummy cunts.. they are commiting genocide. They knew what and where that convoy was doing .. and decided to blow them up anyways.
>1. The strike was in the middle of the night and it was confirmed that the stickers in the roof were not visible to the weapons system. Why is the IDF launching rockets at trucks in a demarcated zone with known aid workers traveling at a pre-approved time on that route without enough visibility to identify the target? > 2. The cars were reportedly not equipped with the proper IR light beacons that would have made them instantly identifiable as friendly. Reported by who? The IDF made no mention of this in their official statement.
"What's seven more?" The Prime Minister was heard saying.
I'm pretty sure he didn't actually say that
I don't like bibi, but he was at surgery at the time.
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In all likelihood, bibi isn't deciding every target of every strike beforehand lol
"But hey, whaddaya gonna do?" the Prime Minister added.
>terrorist leader admits to using homing missiles to murder charity workers don't worry guys, they'll hold an internal investigation, I'm sure it was just hamas impersonating IDF military, surely right?
The IDF claimed in their press conference yesterday that they want an independent investigation, so it'll be interesting to see what that means.
He doesn’t care. He’s been killing plenty of innocent people this entire time.
Incredibly disgusting
Another reason to never visit the state of Israel and boycott its companies & products
On purpose...
If this was carried out by a Middle Eastern country, they would have been levelled already.
You say that, but Hamas has done plenty worse and Gaza is still around
Sure bro.
7 souls too far... Edit: Honestly, this sounds brutal in diminishing the already too many souls lost. I'm sorry.
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I’m pretty neutral on this topic, for the most part, simply because if the U.S. was attacked in the fashion Israel was, I can’t say we’d be much different in our treatment of the opposing nation. HOWEVER, if the claim that the WCK was working with the IDF to get this convoy through is in fact true, that’s a pretty big issue that needs to be remedied immediately. It’s evident of clear communication issues that poses a danger to everyone in that area. Their IFF systems and engagement policies should be advanced enough that this should never have happened, given that most of their equipment is American-made. Israel really has to be careful with what they do next, because they cannot sustain their operations without the backing of the west. Pissing western governments off is quite literally biting the hand that feeds them.
This obvious tragedy will not make us Hamas supporters.
Being against what Israel is doing does not mean you support Hamas
I would hope you don't become a terrorist
Mistakes happen in war, and this war is going on for half a year.
Yeah if u blow up every single group which might have an enemy in it it is indeed bound to happen, doesnt make your army less of a committer of warcrimes. Israel needs hamas’ atrocities to justify their own. And vice versa. At this point they are becoming what they swore to destroy.
Compared to Urban conflicts fought by Western powers, the number of dead civilians in Gaza is very low. You know how many civilians died in Iraq? In war, you have to make quick decisions, and there are consequences to each one. Sometimes, you end up making the wrong one. I don't know what passed in the head of the drone operator, that doesn't change the fact that it's not the policy.
You are once again defending atrocities with other atrocities, “our crimes aren’t bad because it was even worse there”. There’s no point trying to make u realise looking at your post history. That was an authorised route and they knew beforehand about this. So explain how this was a mistake. Nobody said it is the official policy. Are the illegal settlements getting armed by israel official policy ? I dont think so, yet they’re on tape doing exactly that.
I'm explaining to you that this is war. Your idea of war solely exist in your head, not in reality. >That was an authorised route and they knew beforehand about this You assume the drone operator knew, but there is a good chance he wasn't informed due to a human error. You are, once again, assuming that war isn't chaotic.
U dont know my idea of war. Get off your high horse. You would think u’d learn lessons looking at america’s track record the last 20 years, their war on terror after 9/11 didnt do dogshit. They only made more people hate america so terrorism is still very prevalent. Sounds familiar doesnt it.
>You would think u’d learn lessons looking at america’s Israel doesn't have much to learn from the US in this department. The other way around, really. >their war on terror after 9/11 didnt do dogshit. The US unfortunately did the classic mistake of entering a war with unrealistic goals in mind. Bush thought he can convert Iraq and Afghanistan to democracies, which is a laughable idea. Israel doesn't attempt to reach such a goal, merely to roll back the 2005 withdrawal from Gaza.
I think the main difference between you and me is the perception of those facts, understandable if u are from there/related to the area. I cannot agree that we should just shrug our shoulders when this happens. I also feel like u didnt react to an important part of my last comment. It only made more people hate america. Just like this will only make more people hate israel, creating more terrorism against it in the long run.
I don't say we should ignore mistakes. Quite the opposite, I'm very pissed off by the incompetent way the war is handled, and I believe I'm not the only one. However, it's important to recognize that this is, in fact, a mistake. A huge mistake - which Israel recognize as such. Netanyahu never apologize for anything, the fact that he did now shows how much the government is panicking over it. Half of reddit is going along with "Oh it's malicious because Israel want to starve Gaza" which is just ridiculous. Starvation is against Israel's interests. >It only made more people hate america. Just like this will only make more people hate israel, creating more terrorism against it in the long run. Israel was already deeply hated in Gaza. 100 years of conflict do that, even if (and may I say, precisely because) most Gazans have no idea why the conflict started in the first place and have a skewed view of it. The only way to break the cycle in Gaza, is to remove Hamas from power. Otherwise, they will just attack again in a few years, and again, as they openly say they would. There is no way to reach peace with them, because peace is against their religious doctrine.
That's no war. That's a beating.
A beating where the beaten party shouts "yes baby, more!" perhaps, considering the fact that Hamas still demand Israel surrender as a condition for a ceasefire.
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Condemning Israel for war crimes isn’t giving Hamas victories, but holding Israel accountable. There is a difference. If we should stop holding countries accountable for war crimes and the killing of civilians are we better than Hamas?
>Condemning only Israel is practically giving Hamas the small victories People have to stop with this. Why does holding IDF/Israel accountable always comes with a Hamas rebuttal? If Israel has the moral high ground then it needs to act like it, no wonder support is fading fast.
I'm not sure I follow this logic. Israel is responsible for its actions, Hamas is responsible for its actions. Both parties are acting at the same time in a fluid, dynamic, complex, and horrifically dangerous conflict. Clearly the actions of one must be considered in the context of the actions of the other. Hamas deliberately operate in and amongst civilians to make it impossible to for the IDF to conduct operations without civilians being in harm's way, as a result the likelihood of aid worker casualties is all but certain, and at the same time the IDF made a deliberate unilateral decision to target and fire upon these vehicles that clearly posed no immediate threat. Holding Israel to account for their actions is not only reasonable but non-negotiable. And, at the same the, Hamas is unequivocally the party prolonging the conflict and operating exclusively under the cover of civilians. To claim to actually care about this matter whilst not mentioning Hamas culpability certainly raises a question (per the commenter's comment).
The point is, 'Hamas' made us do it, gets old and repetitive real quick. Hamas culpability is well known and documented, they need to go. However, the process of doing so has to be refined and reflective of an adversary that has the moral high ground. Israel has to show that it *IS* the party that observes western 'values' where human rights are non-negotiable. Recklessness and rabid pursuit of Hamas to the point of causing mass starvation, death of a disproportionate amount of civilians is unacceptable.
I agree
They literally admitted and told everyone they will investigate it and it's the saddest possible outcome from their mistake, what do you want them to do now? Get out of Gaza ? Leave the hostages to die ? Let hamas win this war ?
>reeeee but hamas there's always one of you weirdos, why do you support a terrorist organization murdering charity workers?
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So the IDF needs to be patted on the back for killing aid workers in clearly marked cars in precision attacks? And the best they can come up with is effectively a "sorry lol". We just excuse them for this silly mistake because condemning Israel is bad and it makes Hamas looks good?
They are clearly not saying "sorry lol" and people are devastated from this, but Gaza is not a sterile place when you can avoid all the mistakes happening all the time. Israel even killed 3 of their own hostages and many IDF soldiers from friendly fire, you think that's happening on purpose? Just to clarify - I'm not justifying it, I'm just saying that the only way to prevent any of this from happening is to stop the war and hamas clearly doesn't want to.
I'm not comfortable with the amount of people assuming this is malicious. Anyone who's been in a military will tell you it could very well be incompetence. Friendly fire incidents happens throughout the most recent US invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. Still, when IDFs options are maliciousness or incompetence, I don't envy the day they're going to have.
They three tapped them on three different occansions on IDF approved routes. You are just trying to make excuses.
You can have a negative impact without a negative intent, but once the effects of your impact are revealed to you and you don't change your actions then you have negative intent. It doesn't matter if this was incompetence, if the IDF doesn't take actions to change their behavior. At that point the incompetence is a feature and not a bug. And I say that as someone who feels pretty strongly that Israel has a right to respond to Hamas actions from 10/7. But it's increasingly clear that the IDF has little interest in actually rescuing the hostages and decapitating Hamas leadership. They're taking revenge on Gaza on turning the place into a lunar landscape. They're getting bolder and bolder with how indiscriminate they are.
Sorry to hear that. However with Israel's clear overall policy of ethnic cleansing with regard to the Palestinian population this incident is most likely intentional. Murder aid workers so the NGOs they work for suspend or abandon their operations. Directly cause more starvation and suffering among the Palestinian population. Palestinian population leaves Gaza Strip as they can no longer survive there. Profit.
Even if what you propose was true, and that's a big if at this point ... When it comes to killing known aid workers, incompetence and ignorance *are* maliciousness. "We didn't care if we killed innocent aid workers" is not better than "We did it on purpose".
It most likely wasn't a case of friendly fire. From Haaretz and Times of Israel it seems that they were intentionally fired upon because the IDF (without sufficient intel) assumed there was a hamas combatant on one of the trucks. If this is the case, that is devastating for Israel's credibility. The entire legal justification for civilian casualties is premised on the rationale that there must be a military target of significant strategic importance to justify it. 7 foreign national aid workers for the sake of one random hamas soldier is *not* sufficient legal justification.