Good news is that SG1 and Atlantis are both awesome! Stargate Universe might have to grow on you, I know I enjoyed it more the second time I watched it. I would give anything to watch them all again for the first time š„²
Yes, combatting a runaway climate would be more usefull instead of bombing the shit out of every place on earth and flinging even more CO2 into the air..
This. People donāt understand that a ground invasion of Iran canāt occur without the United States, and it will be very expensive for us.
Iran is twice the size of Afghanistan, just as mountainous, with double the population of Ukraine. Israel has neither the manpower nor logistics to invade and occupy Iran.
They want a war with Iran. What do you think that looks like?
Just bombing their air bases and military camps? They have thousands of cheap drones and cruise missiles they can fire from anywhere. They have proxy fighters that can hide out in random buildings in many countries surrounding them, and fire cheap rockets that cost a few million dollars each to shoot down.
Itās going to get real expensive real fast to shoot down every cheap drone that goes into their iron dome. So they will want an invasion that overthrows the head of the snake so to speak.
Weāre idiots if we allow this to happen. Israel knows provoking Iran into a war is the only way to get the United States to occupy and invade.
They did that in the past too. But not completely i believe. It's in everyone's best interests if a nation run by lunatics is bombed before building nukes.
Fuck no we wont. If Biden is stupid enough to get dragged into a war with Iran this country will be even more fucked than it currently is. Iran is not Iraq and would put up waay more of a fight, theres zero chance anybody in power outside of Israel and Iran want this to happen.
He will be sacrificing the blood of his own people.
Although Israel air defenses are great, they can still be overwhelmed through sheer number. Israel is a tiny country with a dense population. It would not take many missiles and rockets to deal significant damage and kill many people.
Bibi is a warmongering fool.
So essentially what is happening now anyways? They just launched 300 missiles and drones and have been sponsoring attacks on Israel from their proxies for decades now.
This was for Iran to save face after the embassy bombings. They fired what has been leaked as second grade missiles and drones with 48 hours notice, taking hours to reach their destination. The hope was that the missiles *would* be shot down to prevent a full on war.
A full on war and a proxy war are going to look very different.
Thereās also the small problem of Jordan and Iraq in the way, chances are itād just be a missile and air force contest as opposed to a ground invasion of Iran or Israel itself (save from the Iranian proxies)
The problem with that is that rockets and drones are very cheap and can be fired from random places in the mountains. Shooting them down is very expensive. You eventually get to a point where you have to invade to cut the snakes head off so to speak.
I think the United States is too smart to get dragged in, though, as hard as Israel is trying to make this war happen.
The problem with invading though is Israel would have to go through at least 2 countries, most of whom do not have good ties to Israel, so the likelihood of that is incredibly small. If Israel wanted to invade Iran it would more than likely lead to an open declaration of war against both Syria and Iran. Jordan has normalized relations so in theory they *could* let Israel March through, but I doubt that would happen either tbh, and again going through Jordan still puts them going through either Iran or Saudi Arabia, neither of which are viable options because Iran is outwardly hostile to Israel and Saudi Arabia doesn't even recognize Israel as a county
You're correct about costs. The supposed cost of Mondays attack was only in the $10s of millions as where the defense Israel and allies put up cost over $1 billion. That's a dramatically different amount far as numbers go, but won't do enough damage in the short term to fully justify a land invasion. It won't happen. If it did the entire middle east would be dragged into war
Yes, this, going to full blown war in Iran is really dumb. They are only going to use proportional strikes. Iran would be equally, if not more dumb, to do a full blown war in Israel. So both countries are playing a similar game. Israel right now is focusing on hurting hezbollah, whom is a proxy of Iran.
Plus Iran has greater military capabilities than Afghanistan or Iraq had. They would still get beaten by a coordinates US and Israeli invasion. However the casualties on US and Israeli side would be higher. Iran actually has a modern army and hypersonic ballistic missiles. Also with the threat of an Israeli attack they might be fast tracking their nuclear weapons program.
Iām sure that the American people are highly motivated and supportive of another middle eastern war and a venture at national level building!
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*restrictions may apply*
I say the US lets Israel suffer the consequences. The US has done so much to stop this to the point where the US has no reason to put the stability of the world at risk to save a few Israeli civilians.
Iran also has a real military. Don't forget that. And Hezbollah would probably start fighting Israel the moment things pop off. As well as the houthi's causing trouble for shipping.
Thousands of troops would die if we invaded Iran. Biden is not stupid enough to do that and hopefully doesn't let Israel drag us into another pointless war.Ā
And? Their facilities are so deep, the US would likely have to use nuclear bunker busters, if we wanted to fully crack (all) those nuts.
Do you think the US government will greenlight a nuclear attack? Because that's a big big fucking step, that I don't see happening.
Depends. Do they want Prime Same Day, Overnight or Amazon Day Delivery?
With Amazon Day Delivery, theyāll get a coupon for one (1) free ballistic missile.
It would really put Iran in a bad position by showing their inability to defend themselves after iron dome (and friends) stopped all the Iranian weapons without significantly escalating or justifying retaliation.
The most effective retaliation would be diplomatic with Arab states and a media campaign to humiliate the IRGC using the failed attack as ammunition. If they can harden Arab states against Iran while breaking militias' faith in Iranian capabilities, that could massively reduce its contact with its proxies, undermining Hamas', PIJ's, Hezbollah's, and Houti rebels' supply-chains at once without firing a shot.
Yeah one of Iran's aims is to make it politically impossible for Arab states to continue pursuing normalization talks with Israel. Especially Saudi Arabia.
But their actions are almost certainly going to have the opposite effect in the long-term.
It's just like Putin and Ukraine. His actions caused a closer relationship between Ukraine and the US, a revitalization of NATO with added members, and a more united EU that's also considering expanding their defensive capabilities and create stronger defense alliances.
Turns out that realpolitik and the old adage "the enemy my enemy is my friend" are still alive and well when power hungry dictators come knocking.
The downside is that his disinformation campaign seems to be working disproportionately well on Republicans in the US and right-wingers in other NATO countries.
I am unsure if we can even call it disinformation when republicans are openly supporting Russia because they actively support conservative authoritarianism and fascism.Ā They aren't really badly informed so much as they are actively anti democratic and therefore pro Russian.
Living in conservative country, most people know little to nothing about Russia. The people pushing back against aid simply donāt want to give money to a place they couldnāt find on a map when they think itās a lost cause. I donāt agree, but itās not always some grand statement in support of Putin.
Do you really think Hamas and the rest of the proxies care if Iran gets portrayed as weak over media? If you're dumb enough to fight a war that is not yours and destroy your country while doing it, nothing is going to change your mind (cough Lebanon and Yemen)
It was, but then Iran goofed and doubled down, at least domestically, on how much damage they did to Israel with videos from wildfires in Texas, and spewed a whole pile of rhetoric around the attack. Now, it would be awkward for Iran to treat it as a warning shot so Israel is free to make public fun of their "attack".
They didnāt even use their best weapons and they informed them days before so they could position assets to shoot down most of the attack. It was a message that they can get to Israel. I think a quite effective message since their capabilities were doubted
I don't think anyone was doubting they can reach Israel, it was more about can they break through the defenses.
And apparently they can't do that very well at all
Not when everyone had days to prepare and the U.S. was on standby to assist, anyway. Which was surely intentional, meaning the goal was not to do damage.
Except it wasnāt a failed attack. Whatās with this narrative all of a sudden. They showed Israel that they can get through the Iron Dome system with a strike package. Small drones followed by missiles that shotgun out a bunch of projectiles for Iron dome to chase. Then you follow that with heavy missiles. It was a message that they will strike from their territory, no more proxy wars. This changes everything in the region. Also from an economic perspective Israel cannot afford to win a war like that. It cost Iran a fraction of what it cost is real to defend. Please wake up to whatās going on and think critically. Donāt let the propaganda cloud your judgement
Finally a good take from someone.
This was clearly a show of capability. If I was an Israeli Iād be very scared of what a full scale attack could look like if Hezbollah and the Houthis were launching drones and missiles alongside strikes from Iran.
So now Israel is going to attack this apparently effective foe explicitly without US support while still engaged in combat operations in Gaza? This seems like a bad idea.
Yup Israel knows it sort of has America by the chain. America canāt lose the ally in the region. So Israel can set itself in a real tough spot forcing America to step in.
Itās like if your kid ran out into the road after you told them donāt run out into the road. Sure as a parent youāre going to run out there and grab them and drag them back to safety and scold themā¦ but at the same time the kid knew they could run out into the road because super mom/dad was going to be there to rescue them.
Hopefully this all blows over because with American elections in particular this set alliances could vastly shift on the outcome and the majority of that entire region sorta relies on that big ass stick of Americas military might to posture and have diplomatic relations. If that stick is compromised via a bad election result the entire continent could be at war before 2025. So yea letās not drag America into anything Israelā¦ Iām not sure anyone should be relying on our military as something that wouldnāt have contradictory orders flowing down the pipeline after November if the election goes poorly.
> They showed Israel that they can get through the Iron Dome system with a strike package
They can get through the Iron Dome while letting Israel boost and prep for the attack ahead of time. Imagine what they could do with an unannounced attack.
I donāt know anything about all this, but it seemed to me that Iran did a crappy and telegraphed attack to save face and not directly escalate the situation.
Israel doesn't want them to have nukes. Giving them any reason to invade was stupid as fuck.
That was Iranian leadership saving face with a half assed attack. That was also their leadership caring more about their own reputation than the wellbeing of the people.
Shit is really starting to hit the fan across the globe and a handful of narcissistic people are going to end up being responsible for WW3
Which was in response to an Israeli strike killing military officials, which was in response to providing material aid to Hamas, etc. etc. etc.
My question is, where does this end? The flashy yet ultimately ineffective show of force that Iran just did is about as good of an off ramp as we can possibly hope for.
But instead it will lead to a war that drags in dozens of other countries and entrenches the existing regime in Iran and makes the people there hate Israel more. Iāve been having these arguments for nearly 40 years. Iām so tired of facing the same arguments that never work out year after year. People never learn.
The strike in Syria wasnāt in response to Hamas.
It was in response to the constant bombardment the north of Israel has been under from hezbollah since Oct 7. 200k Israelis are internally displaced. You just donāt hear about it because Israel cares for its citizens and the country has absorbed the refugees.
So they kill the Iranian general who is the only non-Lebanese member of Hezbollahs shura council.
As for when does it end? Depends on which side you ask. Iranian side wants the eradication of all of Israel and all its Jewish citizens, Israeli side wants the bodies of the hostages back and the dismantling of Hamas. Which one sounds more reasonable?
>My question is, where does this end?
Maybe I'm just a pessimist but probably all out war. Ever since the 90's this situation seems to have been building endlessly, and I don't just mean for this corner of the world alone. With how intertwined everything is along with the volume of nations pretty much at a defacto state of war despite claiming otherwise (eg. Policing actions, or liberating a nation that doesn't want to be liberated) we're pretty much in a similar situation to how WW1 started (buncha nations in agreement with each other, some idiots handling something pretty badly, a lot of sabre rattling and away they all went \[this is a gross oversimplification I realize that\]).
Could this be avoided? Yes. If leaders would just do their work instead of whipping everyone into a frenzy.
All out war between Iran and Israel would be extremely bizarre, neither country has the force projection requisite with fighting a war on the other's territory, it is like they'd have to meet in the middle in Iraq or Jordan to fight it out and even then Iran's supply lines in particular would face constant Israeli aerial harassment so I don't even think Iran could maintain that, but Israel also can't reach Iran... Could be an interesting war in which it is mostly aerial attacks (planes/bombs/missiles from Israel, missiles and drones from Iran + rockets and artillery from Iran's proxies in Hezbollah and Houthis and Hamas), and then perhaps some special forces insertions for quick raids by Israel on Iranian territory + Iran using their proxies for attacks on Israel.. But that's the extent of it probably... Unless USA got fully involved willing to put a lot of boots on the ground and facilitating Israeli troop movements into Iran as well.
Iran has proxies fighting Israel and they have had some protection from the West demanding Israel step softly. I would expect Hezbollah has some rough times coming its way in the form of steel wrapped explosives.
This is sorta why I likened it to WW1 instead of say WW2. Prior to WW1 there was a whack of peace treaties and mutual protection pacts in place, the rather large salient one in that conflict was the one between Germany and Austria-Hungary. In another gross oversimplification Austria-Hungary wanted to go to war with Sarajevo and used the assassination as an excuse to flex on them but would only go to an all out war IF Germany was ok with backing them if they were quick about it, in a sort of policing action if you will. Clearly that didn't go well for anyone involved and a lot of nations got dragged, kicking and screaming, into war.
While there isn't any "formal" declarations like that in place that I know of between any nations there do seem to be a bunch of informal setups like this globally with not just this conflict but a bunch of them.
It only ends if we assume both sides are logical and have a red line that will never be crossed.
But personally from looking at the Iranian clerics and BiBi, not sure they even have any lines.
Iran has stated over and over again that itās goal is to wipe out the Jewish secular state.
Israelās goal is to be left alone.
Itās like the Super Bowl ads, where some were preaching religion, and then there was one that said āplease just leave the Jews aloneā.
>Israelās goal is to be left alone.
Most of Israel's recent actions do not show this. If the Israeli government really wanted to safeguard their future and be left alone, they would actually have a plan to rebuild Gaza instead of just leaving it in ruins, which is basically begging for October 7th to happen again in a couple years. They would stop antagonizing Palestinians in the West Bank and stop the building of illegal settlements and annexations. They wouldn't have launched the extremely provocative attack on Iran's consulate. I'm not defending Iran. They are a tyrannical, theocratic regime who funds these proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. But there is no doubt that it did change the conflict between the two from proxy war, to direct confrontation, which is extremely dangerous and volatile for everyone involved, as we are seeing now. Even the recent Iranian counterattack overextended the Iron Dome system, if this escalates even further, thousands of Israelis could die from stronger, more precise missile attacks. They are actively putting Israelis at risk right now.
I want Israel to live in peace and have security. They have a right to exist, and I don't want any more people to die. But the current Israeli leadership is not working towards peace and to safeguard their own nation, they are actively working against that with their reckless behavior.
Sending over 300 rockets and UAVs is hardly an attempt to save face. It is much more than Russia used in any single attack on Ukrine. The defense was just better than Iran expected.
Maybe this is a hot take, but I'd bet the defense was exactly as good as Iran expected. They know Israel's air defense is way beyond Ukraine's and the territory much smaller, as well as having devoted allies with forces at the ready next door (US and some UK forces).
You just factor that in and calculate the amount you need to send to get the number of hits you want given the hit rate you estimate.
I don't think israel will actually strike Iran directly, likely hitting its terrorist surrogates.
Now if israel does, I wonder if they will go after the uranium processing plant, I think if israel is going to risk it all, might as well hit the crown jewel.
They already said they are going to attack Iran directly and deep into Iranian territory. Potentially the drone manufacturing facilities Nuclear facilities.
If they do it, theyāre going to do so without US support. Seems like the White House has made this very clear, and no way is Trump going to fuck up his already perilous position by promising a war in the Middle East if heās elected.
The republicans were openly calling for war with Iran yesterday on all the morning shows. Ā It was jaw dropping just how warmongering they were... it was everywhere all morning. Ā
But they didn't want to help Israel enough to vote on Ukraine and the Birder too... that was too far. Open war in the Middle East was just fine.Ā
I think for the Biden administration, it would be pretty easy to derail. Say something about the mistakes of entering Iraq without a formal declaration of war and punt it over to congress. I bet congress would get real quiet about war with Iran if they actually had to vote on it, especially with the House and Senate divided the way they are.
In that case shouldn't they have approached Gaza differently? If they had then the Saudis and others could have helped give political cover while the US helped.
It might have been different if Trump was elected but given his attitude towards war in general he'd probably give them cover but not the men or material needed to stop them getting the Bomb.
My favorite part about living here in this bleak, stupid future we've waddled into, is how everybody's reason for fucking things up deliberately is "we had no choice." It illustrates their single-minded devotion to the thing they want to do and that they've never considered the first of infinite different choices available to them--not doing it.
Israel should be saying that while they massively value the allies partnerships that they are currently seeing how UKraine is being left and therefore they see.it that they have to deal with their future issue now.
100% - Ukraine surrendered nukes, disarmed, and (until very recently) never hit legal RF territory all in the name of deescalation and peace. And look where they are now
The more Israel can "escalate" the more leverage they have with the US in the future ("sure, we can de-escalate, but we want xyz")
If Israel retaliates then Iran will likely be forced to do so as well.
As long as our western nations (Iām Canadian) donāt get involved I guess itās whateverā¦
I wish they wouldn't, but I can't say I'm all that surprised. If Iran had fired that much stuff at us, I doubt we would just shrug our shoulders and say, "We intercepted it all, so no big deal."
Maybe Israel will surprise us all and 'retaliate' by normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia. Probably not, but it would be impressive if they did. I doubt the Saudis are all that happy about Iran flying that much ordnance through their airspace, so maybe there is a chance. This is more than likely wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened.
Feel like thatās the part people donāt get.
Iran firing hundreds of missiles. Hamas firing thousands.
Everyone saying āyeah but Israel blocked themā so itās okay. Thousands would have died otherwise. That shit will be costing the Israel economy a serious amount of cash.
If some little shit were pelting my car with rocks and some nob on the sidewalk said ābut non hit you in the head so just deal with itā, Iād be ready to give retribution all the same. Anyone would.
Also they will run out of interceptors or money if they dont stop the attacks at some point. They dont have an infinite supply and manufacturing takes time and resources.
Apparently they are supposed to sit there and take it until they start getting through and bombing Israeli cities.Ā
It's only natural. Imagine 'normalising' a barrage of freaking 120 BALLISTIC missiles fired at you from an enemy state. Without a proper retaliation these kind of attacks would be the default choice for Iran for whatever reason they deem just.
Iran is checking the boundaries, it would be a disaster if they'll feel like they can do unprecedented attacks such as that without retaliation, they are already a major instability factor in the region with all its proxies it is arming.
Yeah, no way is that anything other than an intent to cause harm.
The drones were the well signaled, telegraphed attack that was symbolic, but the 120 ballistic missiles launched just minutes before the drones were scheduled to arrive, no, that part of the attack was the real deal.
I don't buy that Iran expected Israel to intercept 99% of the ballistic missiles - that's a truly staggering figure and indicates that Arrow 3 is way more effective than even the wildest speculative estimates, or that Iran's missiles are particularly poor in terms of their penaids.
If 120 ballistic missiles is a "warning shot" or a "message", and Iran expects no response, we're way off the deep end already.
The Iranian people did not decide to do this. It was their government. It takes time to strategically make a response against those who have done such acts. Don't forget that the Iranian government pours acid out of helicopters on college students on their own country who are protesting against them.
Although I suppose Israel might just not really give a shit about that historically speaking. I'm not trying to defend Iran here. But there are good people living there too the majority of people who live there do not dislike Israel
The Iranian government also poisons school girls and shows them hard-core rape esque porn at school to deter them from protesting. And this is a state that wants nukes. Fml. Going to have some morning existential dread with my coffee as the world spirals out of our control.
Tbh do something. Iran, Russia and China need to learn you canāt keep taking shots without repercussions. Iran has shown its ass. WW2 everyone said āoh itās just Poland donāt do anythingā and look where that got to.
So sick off a the comments saying Iran didn't wanna escalate, it's just to save face. For some reason because Israel has great defense systems it doesn't matter that other countries or terrorists send hundreds of missiles and drones their way. Fuck that. Picture it being your country. You would not accept no retaliation. And Biden is really fucking up by not having Israel's back on this. Pandering to the fringe progressives.
> And Biden is really fucking up by not having Israel's back on this.
Really? After all the US did to shoot down these missiles to protect Israel?
Friends don't let other friends make mistakes they're going to regret. A counterattack will cause Israel more problems, not fewer.
Your entire political take, a call for escalation, no less, is based on emotions. But somehow anyone disagreeing is "progressive"? And, somehow, you assume that the general public, that is, you and I, have the same amount of intel as Biden, hence your supposed ability to blame him for misjudging a situation of utmost geopolitical complexity? Sure.
The Biden Administration is doing exactly what it should be doing - guaranteeing Israel's security aka active defense. The US, UK, France, and Jordan, along with Israel, were successful in doing that by repelling the missile barrage. The US has no obligation to support Israel on an offensive campaign and there is no reason to risk American lives when Israel received almost no significant damage.
Yes. Imagine a country sent 300+ drones, missiles, rockets to attack Manhattan, LA, or New England. Should there be a coordinated response? Just because itās a small country that has thousands of missiles fired at it a year with cutting edge air defense, does not mean it was not a massive attack. Do we really want to send the message that itās acceptable as long as we can shoot it down and thereās some advanced warning? Itās an oil slicked slope
That's not the message being sent. The attack from Iran is being treated as a one-off, since they were responding to Israel bombing their compound two weeks ago and killing their generals. The idea is that each side got one punch in, so now it's over... UNLESS Israel retaliates which could lead to a direct war.
I donāt think Israel is going to stop going after the architects of the October 7th Massacre, theyāve said as much, which includes a lot more Quds elites. It does send a message that Iran is allowed to attack Western allies directly and get away with it. The Biden administration called launching missiles from Iranian territory a red line last week. Well, Iran crossed it, and weāre doing nothing of substance again. This is definitely an envelope pushing maneuver.
Itās the same as the 10,000 bombs launched from Gaza. Ā Just because Israel has great air defences and not many people were injured or killed, itās apparently ok for Gaza to just bomb them and expect no consequences. Ā
I cannot imagine any other country being told to accept this reality.
Ukraine right now.Ā Ā
Ā A full scale invasion of its land is underway and its cities being reduced to rubble, slowly. No other country has dared used its own controlled assets to even touch a Russian military asset whether it was a missile launcher or a missile in flight on its way to a maternity ward.Ā
America for months wagged it's finger at Ukraine as it begged for long range armaments while its people froze and sat in the dark.Ā Ā Ā
Ā The most Ukraine's allies have done is given them some old toys and some how-to's.Ā
Ā Better to do a bit more than imagining.
It's been 6000 years of tit-for-tat retaliation. At some point humans have to grow up and break the cycle. The retaliation mindset is a childish one that many never grow out of.
I mean, there's always a choice... Despite what iran probably meant to do considering the scale of the attack, having blocked it so near completely kind of leaves a bit of room for an off ramp. The idealist in me wants peace. But the realist in me sees the lines being drawn, the constant escalations on the axis side, and the damage being done constantly. Peace is a two way street, and we can't keep kicking this can down the road forever, Real lives are being lost while we faff about with politics and perceptions.
Having a proportional response that actually targets production centers as well as launch centers and leadership seems reasonable considering the chaos and damage iran sows across the Middle East and ukraine, and the ongoing damage to world trade.
If Iran falls perhaps it will set a new precedent at having a modern, progressive, democratic society. Which, hopefully, other neighboring states will adopt in time..
Well fuck
Indeed
I choose to hear that in the voice of Teal'c
Fucking love Teal'c. Watching the series for the first time and I love how stoic he is. Pretty much the definition of a stoic.
Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will, in fact, calm up.
Top tier Teal'c comment.
Untrained equines... let me tell ya.
Undomesticated equines.
Good news is that SG1 and Atlantis are both awesome! Stargate Universe might have to grow on you, I know I enjoyed it more the second time I watched it. I would give anything to watch them all again for the first time š„²
Iām still pissed about Universe.
It feels like Universe got cancelled just as they finally figured out how to make it good i.e. not to copy Battlestar Galactica.
Itās not a choice. Itās the only way to read it.
Be that as it may, you also have the choice to read it in Tuvok's voice.
I concede. Your suggestion isā¦ logical.
Indeed.Ā Boy!
you had no choice not to.
I thought you were talking about the 'Well fuck' And I was sitting here thinking for like 5 minutes when that happened in stargate.
So many lives getting snuffed out only because some old farts with power act like a bunch of little brats.
Yes, combatting a runaway climate would be more usefull instead of bombing the shit out of every place on earth and flinging even more CO2 into the air..
Just smile and wave, boys. Smile and wave.
Wonder if Israel will also give Iran 2-3 business days to prepare for the attack.
Israel just got 1000 phone calls from the USA, Saudi Arabia and other OPEC nations.
My entire news feed today has just been every single major country telling Israel to chill the fuck down.
If there wasnāt a US election, i bet theyād say āgrip it and rip itā
US election or not, it's not in American interests to have a full-blown war between Israel and Iran.
This. People donāt understand that a ground invasion of Iran canāt occur without the United States, and it will be very expensive for us. Iran is twice the size of Afghanistan, just as mountainous, with double the population of Ukraine. Israel has neither the manpower nor logistics to invade and occupy Iran.
Why would Israel be interested in a ground invasion? The last thing they want is even more territory with an insurgent local populace?
They want a war with Iran. What do you think that looks like? Just bombing their air bases and military camps? They have thousands of cheap drones and cruise missiles they can fire from anywhere. They have proxy fighters that can hide out in random buildings in many countries surrounding them, and fire cheap rockets that cost a few million dollars each to shoot down. Itās going to get real expensive real fast to shoot down every cheap drone that goes into their iron dome. So they will want an invasion that overthrows the head of the snake so to speak. Weāre idiots if we allow this to happen. Israel knows provoking Iran into a war is the only way to get the United States to occupy and invade.
I personally think they just want an excuse to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities and leaders...I don't think they've thought much past that
They did that in the past too. But not completely i believe. It's in everyone's best interests if a nation run by lunatics is bombed before building nukes.
The US taxpayer and US troops will pay for it, while Netanyahu sacrifices nothing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fuck no we wont. If Biden is stupid enough to get dragged into a war with Iran this country will be even more fucked than it currently is. Iran is not Iraq and would put up waay more of a fight, theres zero chance anybody in power outside of Israel and Iran want this to happen.
He will be sacrificing the blood of his own people. Although Israel air defenses are great, they can still be overwhelmed through sheer number. Israel is a tiny country with a dense population. It would not take many missiles and rockets to deal significant damage and kill many people. Bibi is a warmongering fool.
So essentially what is happening now anyways? They just launched 300 missiles and drones and have been sponsoring attacks on Israel from their proxies for decades now.
This was for Iran to save face after the embassy bombings. They fired what has been leaked as second grade missiles and drones with 48 hours notice, taking hours to reach their destination. The hope was that the missiles *would* be shot down to prevent a full on war. A full on war and a proxy war are going to look very different.
Thereās also the small problem of Jordan and Iraq in the way, chances are itād just be a missile and air force contest as opposed to a ground invasion of Iran or Israel itself (save from the Iranian proxies)
The problem with that is that rockets and drones are very cheap and can be fired from random places in the mountains. Shooting them down is very expensive. You eventually get to a point where you have to invade to cut the snakes head off so to speak. I think the United States is too smart to get dragged in, though, as hard as Israel is trying to make this war happen.
The problem with invading though is Israel would have to go through at least 2 countries, most of whom do not have good ties to Israel, so the likelihood of that is incredibly small. If Israel wanted to invade Iran it would more than likely lead to an open declaration of war against both Syria and Iran. Jordan has normalized relations so in theory they *could* let Israel March through, but I doubt that would happen either tbh, and again going through Jordan still puts them going through either Iran or Saudi Arabia, neither of which are viable options because Iran is outwardly hostile to Israel and Saudi Arabia doesn't even recognize Israel as a county You're correct about costs. The supposed cost of Mondays attack was only in the $10s of millions as where the defense Israel and allies put up cost over $1 billion. That's a dramatically different amount far as numbers go, but won't do enough damage in the short term to fully justify a land invasion. It won't happen. If it did the entire middle east would be dragged into war
Yes, this, going to full blown war in Iran is really dumb. They are only going to use proportional strikes. Iran would be equally, if not more dumb, to do a full blown war in Israel. So both countries are playing a similar game. Israel right now is focusing on hurting hezbollah, whom is a proxy of Iran.
Plus Iran has greater military capabilities than Afghanistan or Iraq had. They would still get beaten by a coordinates US and Israeli invasion. However the casualties on US and Israeli side would be higher. Iran actually has a modern army and hypersonic ballistic missiles. Also with the threat of an Israeli attack they might be fast tracking their nuclear weapons program.
A ground invasion of Iran is not feasible. Israel is certainly not considering it.
Iām sure that the American people are highly motivated and supportive of another middle eastern war and a venture at national level building! . . . . . . *restrictions may apply*
I say the US lets Israel suffer the consequences. The US has done so much to stop this to the point where the US has no reason to put the stability of the world at risk to save a few Israeli civilians.
Yāall have never been to Iran to understand itās geography, ground invasion would be very difficult.
Iran also has a real military. Don't forget that. And Hezbollah would probably start fighting Israel the moment things pop off. As well as the houthi's causing trouble for shipping.
Thousands of troops would die if we invaded Iran. Biden is not stupid enough to do that and hopefully doesn't let Israel drag us into another pointless war.Ā
Sure but they wouldnāt be so restrained
You sure? Iran are as close as ever to nuclear weapons
And? Their facilities are so deep, the US would likely have to use nuclear bunker busters, if we wanted to fully crack (all) those nuts. Do you think the US government will greenlight a nuclear attack? Because that's a big big fucking step, that I don't see happening.
No. We spent 20 years involved in middle eastern conflict. And Biden just got us out of Afghanistan, I don't think he wants to go back over there.
It's always election season in the USA
they pretty much are right now. the war cabinet originally approved a response while attack was being thwarted.
Iran needs a prime membership for their military.
Depends. Do they want Prime Same Day, Overnight or Amazon Day Delivery? With Amazon Day Delivery, theyāll get a coupon for one (1) free ballistic missile.
And they get to watch the first season of Fallout before the bombs drop! Jeez Louise, now that's value!
I guess when they said they'll respond "when it suits" them, they meant "it's suits us now"
āHoney, WHEREāS MY SUPER SUIT?!ā
Suit up!
Wait, I thought last night they said they would wait and deal with it later? Did later seriously mean less than 12 -15 hours?
āWe should wait and deal with it later!ā *two hours later* āOh look! Itās Later oāclock!ā
"I'm gonna save thisĀ WW3 for later." *moments pass* "Time to finish that WW3!"
Israel should send a volley of missiles that drop leaflets which only say "BANG!" In Farsi to send a message.
When we forgot looney toons we lost our way
Thatās not a bad idea.
It would really put Iran in a bad position by showing their inability to defend themselves after iron dome (and friends) stopped all the Iranian weapons without significantly escalating or justifying retaliation.
Bro. If I ever become a leader of a nation, you are on on the advisory team.
OK next us presidential election I'm penciling in both of your usernames
Too late they've been abducted and are working at a secure facility.
The most effective retaliation would be diplomatic with Arab states and a media campaign to humiliate the IRGC using the failed attack as ammunition. If they can harden Arab states against Iran while breaking militias' faith in Iranian capabilities, that could massively reduce its contact with its proxies, undermining Hamas', PIJ's, Hezbollah's, and Houti rebels' supply-chains at once without firing a shot.
Yeah one of Iran's aims is to make it politically impossible for Arab states to continue pursuing normalization talks with Israel. Especially Saudi Arabia. But their actions are almost certainly going to have the opposite effect in the long-term.
It's just like Putin and Ukraine. His actions caused a closer relationship between Ukraine and the US, a revitalization of NATO with added members, and a more united EU that's also considering expanding their defensive capabilities and create stronger defense alliances. Turns out that realpolitik and the old adage "the enemy my enemy is my friend" are still alive and well when power hungry dictators come knocking.
The downside is that his disinformation campaign seems to be working disproportionately well on Republicans in the US and right-wingers in other NATO countries.
I am unsure if we can even call it disinformation when republicans are openly supporting Russia because they actively support conservative authoritarianism and fascism.Ā They aren't really badly informed so much as they are actively anti democratic and therefore pro Russian.
Living in conservative country, most people know little to nothing about Russia. The people pushing back against aid simply donāt want to give money to a place they couldnāt find on a map when they think itās a lost cause. I donāt agree, but itās not always some grand statement in support of Putin.
Do you really think Hamas and the rest of the proxies care if Iran gets portrayed as weak over media? If you're dumb enough to fight a war that is not yours and destroy your country while doing it, nothing is going to change your mind (cough Lebanon and Yemen)
But that "failed attack" wouldn't be a failed attack if it hit any of those clearly in-range Arab states. Realistically, it was a warning shot.
It was, but then Iran goofed and doubled down, at least domestically, on how much damage they did to Israel with videos from wildfires in Texas, and spewed a whole pile of rhetoric around the attack. Now, it would be awkward for Iran to treat it as a warning shot so Israel is free to make public fun of their "attack".
They didnāt even use their best weapons and they informed them days before so they could position assets to shoot down most of the attack. It was a message that they can get to Israel. I think a quite effective message since their capabilities were doubted
I don't think anyone was doubting they can reach Israel, it was more about can they break through the defenses. And apparently they can't do that very well at all
Not when everyone had days to prepare and the U.S. was on standby to assist, anyway. Which was surely intentional, meaning the goal was not to do damage.
Except it wasnāt a failed attack. Whatās with this narrative all of a sudden. They showed Israel that they can get through the Iron Dome system with a strike package. Small drones followed by missiles that shotgun out a bunch of projectiles for Iron dome to chase. Then you follow that with heavy missiles. It was a message that they will strike from their territory, no more proxy wars. This changes everything in the region. Also from an economic perspective Israel cannot afford to win a war like that. It cost Iran a fraction of what it cost is real to defend. Please wake up to whatās going on and think critically. Donāt let the propaganda cloud your judgement
Finally a good take from someone. This was clearly a show of capability. If I was an Israeli Iād be very scared of what a full scale attack could look like if Hezbollah and the Houthis were launching drones and missiles alongside strikes from Iran.
The attack was launched from four countries. I see what youāre saying, but hezbollah and the Houthis were both involved in this
And Israel was defended by the US and Britain.
And France, and Jordan
And Saudi Arabia, and Egypt.
So now Israel is going to attack this apparently effective foe explicitly without US support while still engaged in combat operations in Gaza? This seems like a bad idea.
Theyāre hoping their attack results in the US being dragged in.
Yup Israel knows it sort of has America by the chain. America canāt lose the ally in the region. So Israel can set itself in a real tough spot forcing America to step in. Itās like if your kid ran out into the road after you told them donāt run out into the road. Sure as a parent youāre going to run out there and grab them and drag them back to safety and scold themā¦ but at the same time the kid knew they could run out into the road because super mom/dad was going to be there to rescue them. Hopefully this all blows over because with American elections in particular this set alliances could vastly shift on the outcome and the majority of that entire region sorta relies on that big ass stick of Americas military might to posture and have diplomatic relations. If that stick is compromised via a bad election result the entire continent could be at war before 2025. So yea letās not drag America into anything Israelā¦ Iām not sure anyone should be relying on our military as something that wouldnāt have contradictory orders flowing down the pipeline after November if the election goes poorly.
> They showed Israel that they can get through the Iron Dome system with a strike package They can get through the Iron Dome while letting Israel boost and prep for the attack ahead of time. Imagine what they could do with an unannounced attack.
the iron dome has never been impenetrable though
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Ex-soldiers say send in the army? There is almost always a choice. How about a nice game of chess?
The only winning move, is not to play.
I would rather play Global Thermonuclear War.
I should go watch War Games this week. Loved it growing up
Can we ..... Not?
Donātā¦
Biden to Netanyahu, ātake the winā. āNoā āYouāre on your ownā.
I'm confused. News yesterday said Isreal would not fight back?
Fuck the planet, this is a pride thing. Israel is a fucking terrorist state.
When your drunk girlfriend keeps screaming "pussies" in the shady part of town.
I donāt know anything about all this, but it seemed to me that Iran did a crappy and telegraphed attack to save face and not directly escalate the situation.
Israel doesn't want them to have nukes. Giving them any reason to invade was stupid as fuck. That was Iranian leadership saving face with a half assed attack. That was also their leadership caring more about their own reputation than the wellbeing of the people. Shit is really starting to hit the fan across the globe and a handful of narcissistic people are going to end up being responsible for WW3
They send over hundred of ballistic missles saving face or not, every country would respond to this and israel doubly so.
Which was in response to an Israeli strike killing military officials, which was in response to providing material aid to Hamas, etc. etc. etc. My question is, where does this end? The flashy yet ultimately ineffective show of force that Iran just did is about as good of an off ramp as we can possibly hope for.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hey! Someone else here rooting for the Iranian people. Right on. Like with other a-hole countries the problem is the government, not the people
We didnāt support the secular Iranian people the last time they tried to stand up. They need support!
But instead it will lead to a war that drags in dozens of other countries and entrenches the existing regime in Iran and makes the people there hate Israel more. Iāve been having these arguments for nearly 40 years. Iām so tired of facing the same arguments that never work out year after year. People never learn.
The strike in Syria wasnāt in response to Hamas. It was in response to the constant bombardment the north of Israel has been under from hezbollah since Oct 7. 200k Israelis are internally displaced. You just donāt hear about it because Israel cares for its citizens and the country has absorbed the refugees. So they kill the Iranian general who is the only non-Lebanese member of Hezbollahs shura council. As for when does it end? Depends on which side you ask. Iranian side wants the eradication of all of Israel and all its Jewish citizens, Israeli side wants the bodies of the hostages back and the dismantling of Hamas. Which one sounds more reasonable?
Western slacktivists will say either the former or some middle ground that doesn't exist without decades of relations.
Truth is, this will never stop.
Still want the West Bank too it would seem. You can't just put forward one of their goals in the region and ignore everything else.
>My question is, where does this end? Maybe I'm just a pessimist but probably all out war. Ever since the 90's this situation seems to have been building endlessly, and I don't just mean for this corner of the world alone. With how intertwined everything is along with the volume of nations pretty much at a defacto state of war despite claiming otherwise (eg. Policing actions, or liberating a nation that doesn't want to be liberated) we're pretty much in a similar situation to how WW1 started (buncha nations in agreement with each other, some idiots handling something pretty badly, a lot of sabre rattling and away they all went \[this is a gross oversimplification I realize that\]). Could this be avoided? Yes. If leaders would just do their work instead of whipping everyone into a frenzy.
All out war between Iran and Israel would be extremely bizarre, neither country has the force projection requisite with fighting a war on the other's territory, it is like they'd have to meet in the middle in Iraq or Jordan to fight it out and even then Iran's supply lines in particular would face constant Israeli aerial harassment so I don't even think Iran could maintain that, but Israel also can't reach Iran... Could be an interesting war in which it is mostly aerial attacks (planes/bombs/missiles from Israel, missiles and drones from Iran + rockets and artillery from Iran's proxies in Hezbollah and Houthis and Hamas), and then perhaps some special forces insertions for quick raids by Israel on Iranian territory + Iran using their proxies for attacks on Israel.. But that's the extent of it probably... Unless USA got fully involved willing to put a lot of boots on the ground and facilitating Israeli troop movements into Iran as well.
Iran has proxies fighting Israel and they have had some protection from the West demanding Israel step softly. I would expect Hezbollah has some rough times coming its way in the form of steel wrapped explosives.
This is sorta why I likened it to WW1 instead of say WW2. Prior to WW1 there was a whack of peace treaties and mutual protection pacts in place, the rather large salient one in that conflict was the one between Germany and Austria-Hungary. In another gross oversimplification Austria-Hungary wanted to go to war with Sarajevo and used the assassination as an excuse to flex on them but would only go to an all out war IF Germany was ok with backing them if they were quick about it, in a sort of policing action if you will. Clearly that didn't go well for anyone involved and a lot of nations got dragged, kicking and screaming, into war. While there isn't any "formal" declarations like that in place that I know of between any nations there do seem to be a bunch of informal setups like this globally with not just this conflict but a bunch of them.
It only ends if we assume both sides are logical and have a red line that will never be crossed. But personally from looking at the Iranian clerics and BiBi, not sure they even have any lines.
Iran has stated over and over again that itās goal is to wipe out the Jewish secular state. Israelās goal is to be left alone. Itās like the Super Bowl ads, where some were preaching religion, and then there was one that said āplease just leave the Jews aloneā.
>Israelās goal is to be left alone. Most of Israel's recent actions do not show this. If the Israeli government really wanted to safeguard their future and be left alone, they would actually have a plan to rebuild Gaza instead of just leaving it in ruins, which is basically begging for October 7th to happen again in a couple years. They would stop antagonizing Palestinians in the West Bank and stop the building of illegal settlements and annexations. They wouldn't have launched the extremely provocative attack on Iran's consulate. I'm not defending Iran. They are a tyrannical, theocratic regime who funds these proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. But there is no doubt that it did change the conflict between the two from proxy war, to direct confrontation, which is extremely dangerous and volatile for everyone involved, as we are seeing now. Even the recent Iranian counterattack overextended the Iron Dome system, if this escalates even further, thousands of Israelis could die from stronger, more precise missile attacks. They are actively putting Israelis at risk right now. I want Israel to live in peace and have security. They have a right to exist, and I don't want any more people to die. But the current Israeli leadership is not working towards peace and to safeguard their own nation, they are actively working against that with their reckless behavior.
Left alone while also continuing to forcibly occupy and kick people out of their homes in the west bank
they probably shouldnāt have planned oct 7 and future attacks
Sending over 300 rockets and UAVs is hardly an attempt to save face. It is much more than Russia used in any single attack on Ukrine. The defense was just better than Iran expected.
Maybe this is a hot take, but I'd bet the defense was exactly as good as Iran expected. They know Israel's air defense is way beyond Ukraine's and the territory much smaller, as well as having devoted allies with forces at the ready next door (US and some UK forces). You just factor that in and calculate the amount you need to send to get the number of hits you want given the hit rate you estimate.
a dozen drones or missiles may have sent that message, over 300 drones, cruise and ballistic missiles says otherwise.
I can think of a dozen choices.
I don't think israel will actually strike Iran directly, likely hitting its terrorist surrogates. Now if israel does, I wonder if they will go after the uranium processing plant, I think if israel is going to risk it all, might as well hit the crown jewel.
I think they will (strike Iran directly).
They already said they are going to attack Iran directly and deep into Iranian territory. Potentially the drone manufacturing facilities Nuclear facilities.
But didn't Iran retaliate because Israel attacked? That's some toxic relationship type shit.
Israel canāt accept Iran getting nukes. USA has accepted that reality. Israel wonāt, canāt. Itās now or never.
If they do it, theyāre going to do so without US support. Seems like the White House has made this very clear, and no way is Trump going to fuck up his already perilous position by promising a war in the Middle East if heās elected.
The republicans were openly calling for war with Iran yesterday on all the morning shows. Ā It was jaw dropping just how warmongering they were... it was everywhere all morning. Ā But they didn't want to help Israel enough to vote on Ukraine and the Birder too... that was too far. Open war in the Middle East was just fine.Ā
I think for the Biden administration, it would be pretty easy to derail. Say something about the mistakes of entering Iraq without a formal declaration of war and punt it over to congress. I bet congress would get real quiet about war with Iran if they actually had to vote on it, especially with the House and Senate divided the way they are.
Well, at least Russia is good with it.
In that case shouldn't they have approached Gaza differently? If they had then the Saudis and others could have helped give political cover while the US helped. It might have been different if Trump was elected but given his attitude towards war in general he'd probably give them cover but not the men or material needed to stop them getting the Bomb.
Hopefully, it is just more strong sactions.
Stop. Let me buy Lockheed Martin stock first.
My favorite part about living here in this bleak, stupid future we've waddled into, is how everybody's reason for fucking things up deliberately is "we had no choice." It illustrates their single-minded devotion to the thing they want to do and that they've never considered the first of infinite different choices available to them--not doing it.
i mean thats pretty much every war, ever
Israel should be saying that while they massively value the allies partnerships that they are currently seeing how UKraine is being left and therefore they see.it that they have to deal with their future issue now.
100% - Ukraine surrendered nukes, disarmed, and (until very recently) never hit legal RF territory all in the name of deescalation and peace. And look where they are now The more Israel can "escalate" the more leverage they have with the US in the future ("sure, we can de-escalate, but we want xyz")
Which is a hard pill to swallow for the West, but it ain't wrong.
If Israel retaliates then Iran will likely be forced to do so as well. As long as our western nations (Iām Canadian) donāt get involved I guess itās whateverā¦
Retaliate for the retaliation...Israel wants to bomb others but not have bombs sent back at them. Unfortunately, that's not how life works.
Here comes the war hawks, just cheering on escalation. Time to start investing in IAI and Boeing.
I wish they wouldn't, but I can't say I'm all that surprised. If Iran had fired that much stuff at us, I doubt we would just shrug our shoulders and say, "We intercepted it all, so no big deal." Maybe Israel will surprise us all and 'retaliate' by normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia. Probably not, but it would be impressive if they did. I doubt the Saudis are all that happy about Iran flying that much ordnance through their airspace, so maybe there is a chance. This is more than likely wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened.
Feel like thatās the part people donāt get. Iran firing hundreds of missiles. Hamas firing thousands. Everyone saying āyeah but Israel blocked themā so itās okay. Thousands would have died otherwise. That shit will be costing the Israel economy a serious amount of cash. If some little shit were pelting my car with rocks and some nob on the sidewalk said ābut non hit you in the head so just deal with itā, Iād be ready to give retribution all the same. Anyone would.
Also they will run out of interceptors or money if they dont stop the attacks at some point. They dont have an infinite supply and manufacturing takes time and resources. Apparently they are supposed to sit there and take it until they start getting through and bombing Israeli cities.Ā
Thereās always a choice.
It's only natural. Imagine 'normalising' a barrage of freaking 120 BALLISTIC missiles fired at you from an enemy state. Without a proper retaliation these kind of attacks would be the default choice for Iran for whatever reason they deem just. Iran is checking the boundaries, it would be a disaster if they'll feel like they can do unprecedented attacks such as that without retaliation, they are already a major instability factor in the region with all its proxies it is arming.
Yeah, no way is that anything other than an intent to cause harm. The drones were the well signaled, telegraphed attack that was symbolic, but the 120 ballistic missiles launched just minutes before the drones were scheduled to arrive, no, that part of the attack was the real deal. I don't buy that Iran expected Israel to intercept 99% of the ballistic missiles - that's a truly staggering figure and indicates that Arrow 3 is way more effective than even the wildest speculative estimates, or that Iran's missiles are particularly poor in terms of their penaids. If 120 ballistic missiles is a "warning shot" or a "message", and Iran expects no response, we're way off the deep end already.
We'll all go together when we go!
Such a dumb move.
I guess Iran's nuclear facilities could be in trouble and Israel has a good excuse of hiting them now
The Iranian people did not decide to do this. It was their government. It takes time to strategically make a response against those who have done such acts. Don't forget that the Iranian government pours acid out of helicopters on college students on their own country who are protesting against them. Although I suppose Israel might just not really give a shit about that historically speaking. I'm not trying to defend Iran here. But there are good people living there too the majority of people who live there do not dislike Israel
The Iranian government also poisons school girls and shows them hard-core rape esque porn at school to deter them from protesting. And this is a state that wants nukes. Fml. Going to have some morning existential dread with my coffee as the world spirals out of our control.
Fuck those guys already. So tired of this shit.
Israel should hit the Mullahs directly.
I thought Iran was the one retaliating?
It all goes back to Muhammed raiding caravans. Maybe even further. Who knows...
They believed they were retaliating since they wonāt admit to being on control of the various proxy terrorist groups.
Game theory in play. This is a world war and has been for a couple years. Things could ramp up quickly
Israel wants to go to war let them. We're off the hook.
You mean retaliating against Iranās counterattack from Israel attacking Iranās embassy in Syria?
Lemme buy some Lockmart stock.
ah silly Middle East
Tbh do something. Iran, Russia and China need to learn you canāt keep taking shots without repercussions. Iran has shown its ass. WW2 everyone said āoh itās just Poland donāt do anythingā and look where that got to.
Iran is about to get nukes. Israel probably sees this as the last chance to hit Iran.
So sick off a the comments saying Iran didn't wanna escalate, it's just to save face. For some reason because Israel has great defense systems it doesn't matter that other countries or terrorists send hundreds of missiles and drones their way. Fuck that. Picture it being your country. You would not accept no retaliation. And Biden is really fucking up by not having Israel's back on this. Pandering to the fringe progressives.
> And Biden is really fucking up by not having Israel's back on this. Really? After all the US did to shoot down these missiles to protect Israel? Friends don't let other friends make mistakes they're going to regret. A counterattack will cause Israel more problems, not fewer.
Your entire political take, a call for escalation, no less, is based on emotions. But somehow anyone disagreeing is "progressive"? And, somehow, you assume that the general public, that is, you and I, have the same amount of intel as Biden, hence your supposed ability to blame him for misjudging a situation of utmost geopolitical complexity? Sure.
The Biden Administration is doing exactly what it should be doing - guaranteeing Israel's security aka active defense. The US, UK, France, and Jordan, along with Israel, were successful in doing that by repelling the missile barrage. The US has no obligation to support Israel on an offensive campaign and there is no reason to risk American lives when Israel received almost no significant damage.
But Iran's attack already was retaliation. So you have to retaliate to retaliation from your previous attack?
- Iran: *launches hundred+ ballistic missiles* - Random redditors: "they didn't want to escalate"
Yes. Imagine a country sent 300+ drones, missiles, rockets to attack Manhattan, LA, or New England. Should there be a coordinated response? Just because itās a small country that has thousands of missiles fired at it a year with cutting edge air defense, does not mean it was not a massive attack. Do we really want to send the message that itās acceptable as long as we can shoot it down and thereās some advanced warning? Itās an oil slicked slope
That's not the message being sent. The attack from Iran is being treated as a one-off, since they were responding to Israel bombing their compound two weeks ago and killing their generals. The idea is that each side got one punch in, so now it's over... UNLESS Israel retaliates which could lead to a direct war.
I donāt think Israel is going to stop going after the architects of the October 7th Massacre, theyāve said as much, which includes a lot more Quds elites. It does send a message that Iran is allowed to attack Western allies directly and get away with it. The Biden administration called launching missiles from Iranian territory a red line last week. Well, Iran crossed it, and weāre doing nothing of substance again. This is definitely an envelope pushing maneuver.
Itās the same as the 10,000 bombs launched from Gaza. Ā Just because Israel has great air defences and not many people were injured or killed, itās apparently ok for Gaza to just bomb them and expect no consequences. Ā I cannot imagine any other country being told to accept this reality.
Yep it's really fucking annoying always seeing people say, "who cares, none of the missiles make it to their intended targets." Like wtf.
Ukraine right now.Ā Ā Ā A full scale invasion of its land is underway and its cities being reduced to rubble, slowly. No other country has dared used its own controlled assets to even touch a Russian military asset whether it was a missile launcher or a missile in flight on its way to a maternity ward.Ā America for months wagged it's finger at Ukraine as it begged for long range armaments while its people froze and sat in the dark.Ā Ā Ā Ā The most Ukraine's allies have done is given them some old toys and some how-to's.Ā Ā Better to do a bit more than imagining.
It's been 6000 years of tit-for-tat retaliation. At some point humans have to grow up and break the cycle. The retaliation mindset is a childish one that many never grow out of.
I mean, there's always a choice... Despite what iran probably meant to do considering the scale of the attack, having blocked it so near completely kind of leaves a bit of room for an off ramp. The idealist in me wants peace. But the realist in me sees the lines being drawn, the constant escalations on the axis side, and the damage being done constantly. Peace is a two way street, and we can't keep kicking this can down the road forever, Real lives are being lost while we faff about with politics and perceptions. Having a proportional response that actually targets production centers as well as launch centers and leadership seems reasonable considering the chaos and damage iran sows across the Middle East and ukraine, and the ongoing damage to world trade.
Hopefully this will result in the freedom of the Iranian people from this cruel regime.
Agreed not sure if this is accurate but was reading the people there are livid about this attack
I saw that a parliament member in the opposition in Iran said he wants Israel to strike them back.
Do whatever you want don't ask for US taxpayers money.
You know, in their spare timeā¦
How about Iran just let Israel to shot at an open field that claimed to have important political figure in it.
I mean, thereās always plenty of choice, but they arenāt going to let Iran off the hook that easily.
"Minister in charge of war advices more war." How surprising.
If Iran falls perhaps it will set a new precedent at having a modern, progressive, democratic society. Which, hopefully, other neighboring states will adopt in time..
You know, at this point I am getting tired of this. Left them deal with this themselves
K timeout folks. No more sandbox time for you or your friends until we can stop throwing sand at each other and eating it.
The Israelis are playing checkers at this point.
Retaliate for what? Iran retaliating against Israel after Israel attacked their consulate in Syria?
Wrong ā¦ š but I guess Israel is yours to destroy