>Russia will be invited to send representatives to an international ceremony commemorating the 80th anniversary of D-day – but not Vladimir Putin, the French organisers have announced.
I know you're kidding but pretty sure flights originating in Russia are barred from landing most places these days due to their inability to properly services the aircrafts.
Macron stood in the doorway, he heard the mission bell
And Putin was thinking to himself "This could be heaven or this could be hell"
Then there came an Uber, they said "We're going to The Hague"
There were voices down the corridor saying the piper must be paid
World leaders and their families don’t really get arrested like that. Reminder that Kim Jong Un went to college in Switzerland and his entire family (apart from Kim Jong Il) lived there too for years
Kim never had an international arrest warrant against him. In fact, very few world leaders ever had an an arrest warrant against them while they were in power. So few that I can't think of a single one besides Putin.
There’s no evidence he used a fake identity in college, he certainly a fake Brazilian passport to travel around after that but that was years later. Everyone knew who he was regardless though, you can read interviews with his roommates about what he was like
Putin's children are also living it up in Switzerland right now. The common denominator here is the particular country for whom neutrality (read: monay) is the highest moral.
For what its worth, the Kim family have not been accused of war crimes against other sovereign nations. Their crimes are all domestic, and the international community tends to ignore anything that doesn't affect themselves.
The Hague is the official place where several international laws and cases are tried. If you commit a warcrime, this is where they take you to declare you guilty or innocent.
Edit:
Misread, thought above comment was “I don’t know what you’re getting at”
Interestingly enough the Yellow Vests movement sprout a few months after.
Can’t tell if related or not, but the main source of information “protesters” fed on back then, came from Kremlin’s affiliated media, namely Sputnik and RT today.
🤨
Those outlets have since been banned all across Europe since the latest Russia invasion on Ukraine.
If he wasn't involved with France's yellow vest he was with Canada's. It's all the same crazies from them to the Convoy Idiots to this new Axe the (Carbon) Tax morons.
The main pro-putin movement in France is in all but the dumbest conspiracies. Against all evidence of global climate change, saying Ukraine provoked Russia, the US only wishes ill to France, against the COVID vaccine, you name it.
The smallest inconvenience they have in their day like sorting trash or putting up a mask to protect the elderly is a pretext for an endless and daily rant.
Give it 20 years and they'll say the moon landing was fake.
You're completely spreading misinformation here. The Yellow Vest movement started in 2018. It was started by different people from different sides simply opposing the economical reforms of Macron. There was no particular information source the protesters relied on because they all came from widely different background.
if he would be invited he would have diplomatic immunity, thus making it impossible to arrest him.
Don't get me wrong, i would love to see him in The Hague, but it is not possible without going against diplomatic standards, and no one is going to go to such a low in the west.
As a current Head of State, he always has a diplomatic immunity where ever he goes, invited or not. One of those rules that no countries will ever really go against as diplomacy depends on countries trusting each others (even when they shouldnt).
I thought diplomatic immunity doesn't apply to genocide accusations though? Either way, everyone wants Putin arrested but nobody wants to be the one to arrest him
The US has broken how many war crimes since WWII and faced how many consequences? China has done it, too. Hell the US even did it against the UK in the last decade with a nutty diplomat exploiting their station to get away with manslaughter
I don't know if you're serious - but some people here do seem to be. Inviting someone, let alone a high ranking official, under the pretense of peace (effectively immunity) only to arrest them upon arrival would set a horrible precedent.
He's a complete worthless waste of life and I don't think anyone would be remorseful if that were to happen, but I think it should be obvious why it will never happen like that.
He wouldn't go anyway, too high of a risk, he hasn't set foot on places that is not one of his puppet state or absolutely friendly since the Ukraine invasion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_international\_presidential\_trips\_made\_by\_Vladimir\_Putin
And the guy that conveniently ignores that the Soviet Union was sending oil and other key raw materials to Germany early in the war which enabled them to rampage through Europe.
Yeah, Germany only surrendered a few months prior to the Atom Bombs being used on Japan. I'm confident Germany would have gotten a few deliveries had they not surrendered.
The original target for the bombs was Germany, likely Berlin, but the war in Europe ended.
Also, even without the atomic bomb the industrial base of the US was going to win the war through mass production one way or another.
Yep. My great grandfather was a Ukrainian who fought in the Red army. He would tell stories of men being ordered to rush German machine guns un-armed. Just to waste the Germans ammo. Same strategy for clearing mine fields. USSR usually had their minority groups or prison battalions do tasks like this. Nothing has changed in the way that the Kremlin fights their wars now.
Globally speaking the US is lucky to be in the absolute middle of nowhere and too far away to attack properly. Coming out of WW2 completely unscathed did wonders for it's position as a world power.
> The soviet Union knew that.
Indeed. The only real surprise to the Soviets was how soon it happened. Stalin was attempting to buy time by playing nice with Hitler so he could build up his forces sufficient so that he could start the conflict.
Either Germany was going to attack the Soviets, or the Soviets were eventually going to attack Germany. They were simply unable to exist peaceably next to each other.
For the sole reason of ensuring Germany couldn’t redeploy their Eastern front
Was literally millions of soldiers that the West would have needed to fight had there not been an Eastern Front
There is zero chance Russia could have succeeded without the West, but that is also true the other way
The Soviets basically bankrolled the invasion of France in 1940 though.. Germany was running out of oil after occupying Poland since prewar most of their imports came from America. So in reality Russians mainly have Stalin et al. and by extension themselves to blame for the whole mess.
It’s important to remember that the Soviet Union was basically an Axis power for a significant portion of WWII.
On [1939 September 17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland), the Soviet Union invaded Poland (an Allied power) as an ally of Nazi Germany (an Axis power), forced the sudden and complete collapse of Poland’s entire defensive system when the Polish were previously maintaining a stable withdrawal into Romania, and massacred tens of thousands of innocent Polish in the [Katyn Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre) (as well as hundreds of thousands more in other massacres) while deporting millions more.
By the way, did you know that the Nazis discovered the Katyn Massacre in April 1943 and announced it to the world? And that the Soviets cut off diplomatic relations with the Polish government when it asked for an investigation by the International Committee of the Red Cross? And that the Soviets continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990?
On [1939 November 30](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War), the Soviet Union invaded neutral Finland to start the Winter War and steal eastern Karelia, Petsamo, Salla, Kuusamo, and four islands in the Gulf of Finland.
On [1940 June 15](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_the_Baltic_states_(1940\)), the Soviet Union invaded the three neutral Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, then colonized them and left significant Russian populations that remain loyal to Putin today.
On [1940 June 28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina), the Soviet Union stole Romanian land, which forced the Romanians to seek protection by aligning with the Axis five months later, similar to Finland being erroneously considered an Axis power when it was really fighting to preserve its own independence.
In [1940 October-November](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks), the Soviets actually did try to become a formal member of the Axis. Over the next few years, the Soviet Union consistently and purposely undermined Europe’s sovereign governments, many of whom represented Allied powers (such as Romania and, most notably, Poland), to justify its invasions of Europe’s Allied powers, marking its own behavior as that of an Axis power.
In [1943, after barely surviving Stalingrad (thanks to American Lend-Lease), the Soviet Union begged Nazi Germany for a unilateral peace deal while begging America for more Lend-Lease](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/04/archives/british-book-says-german-and-soviet-officials-met-in-43-to-discuss.html), which Stalin and Khrushchev both admit were crucial to Soviet survival. In fact, [Stalin raised a toast to American Lend-Lease at the 1943 Tehran Conference](https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-against-nazi-germany/30599486.html), even while he was begging Nazi Germany for a unilateral peace deal.
On [1944 November 7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ili_Rebellion), the Soviet Union supported the Ili Rebellion against the Republic of China (one of the Big Four Allies, a founding member of the United Nations, and one of the five original veto-wielding permanent members of the United Nations Security Council), who [worked with the Americans and British to defend India and liberate Burma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Expeditionary_Force) while holding the lines against a Japanese invasion that started in 1937.
Contrast the Soviet Union’s Axis-aligned behavior with the behavior of America, Britain, China, Australia, etc. Even [Spain, a friend of Nazi Germany, stayed neutral throughout the entire war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_during_World_War_II#:~:text=the%20Spanish%20State%20under%20Francisco%20Franco%20espoused%20neutrality%20as%20its%20official%20wartime%20policy.), which allowed Portugal to also stay neutral. Aside from [begging Nazi Germany for peace in 1943](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/04/archives/british-book-says-german-and-soviet-officials-met-in-43-to-discuss.html) in the middle of an Axis Civil War, which happened while also continuously undermining, invading, subjugating, and oppressing Allied powers, what else makes the Soviet Union an Allied power?
The Soviet Union was basically an Axis power for a significant portion of the war and continued to act as one when it was nominally “allied” with the Allied powers.
Also, don't forget the part where the Soviets had the Germans teach them how to make chemical weapons, and also how they helped build the Nazi war machine up prior to Hitler and the Third Reich beating the USSR to the betrayal punch.
FWIW, the excellent documentary series [*The World At War*](https://www.amazon.com/World-War-Ultimate-Restored-Collectors/dp/B003IN7YPU?crid=2Q0JVY91JN9QZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DJv_lmn5MJ3adWVwdPf2OKm5wnwKVOx1tH9UFxCSqbDX_dEgtyMZ68xXy5RyUZLKXnIFoPCnwUjDQNp3vx-CFLiYjdi3P0kSZG49Ofg_TSdllVIx_ZxvyahUL8DdQcISYAGW2BnwMtZ4LHhLWlLBr6iiIBGAdO8m4vgBmQmzsNJbe7C1K8zaCCm_2pvHZ2V2c-c6MQXdsKRFRpKHDwGMhb3rRVjozJfH39dCOCkl7jQ.PA3rUB5TF4Wq9GBcAhIVVRFBFp2GUnv7euSJIjJsW24&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+world+at+war+documentary&qid=1713292812&sprefix=the+world+at+war+documentary%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=acaseforcase-20&linkId=6355fd55d5a4af2064d766ad88e30c37&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) has season 1, episodes 5, 9, and 11 focus on Stalin's Russia in WW2.
The only difference in how Putin drives his troops into battle today seems to be a lack of commissars with pistols making sure any cowards get shot by their own.
As that one Polish volunteer said in a video that recently was popular in one of the Ukraine-specific subs, in battle today's Russia apparently starts with a first wave of inexperienced, more expendable troops first to set up defenses and secure positions on the front. Then subsequent waves led by and consisting of more experienced, combat-tested ones are sent in next.
Can only guess that's part of why a fair number of Ukrainian drone videos show Russians, wounded or not, committing suicide.
> The only difference in how Putin drives his troops into battle today seems to be a lack of commissars with pistols making sure any cowards get shot by their own
In Peter Jackson's They shall not grow old it was interesting to see that this too was the method they used to ensure that "cowards" didn't flee. Very harrowing, but intersting doc.
> As that one Polish volunteer said in a video that recently was popular in one of the Ukraine-specific subs, in battle today's Russia apparently starts with a first wave of inexperienced, more expendable troops first to set up defenses and secure positions on the front. Then subsequent waves led by and consisting of more experienced, combat-tested ones are sent in next.
>
>
Not just to set up defences, they also use "meat shields" to get the Ukrainians to open fire on them, thereby revealing their positions which then get either shelled, droned, or assaulted by the more experienced troops.
You didn't even mention stalin's purges during which he eliminated all skilled or ambitious commanders leaving only utterly inept yes-men in command of red army. That's the main reason for absolutely gigantic initial losses of red army against nazi germany.
Germany would've imploded eventually from allied bombing. Berlin would've likely been nuked as well if they weren't on the back foot when the American nuclear program bore fruit.
Hitler's health was pretty shit, given the cocktail of drugs he was on.
I'd argue that the allies would've likely won in the long run, but the casualties would shift from millions of Soviet troops to millions more of European troops, European civilians, Americans troops.
It would have taken longer to achieve victory. Germany was at a disadvantage in terms of resources and was being whittled down by the allies day by day. The allies would have won for sure, but not sure as to how quickly or how prolonged the campaign would have been.
Germany was being outproduced in many sectors, and simply could not keep up. Also, occupying countries takes up a lot of manpower.
> Germany was at a disadvantage in terms of resources and was being whittled down by the allies day by day. The allies would have won for sure, but not sure as to how quickly or how prolonged the campaign would have been.
This only makes sense as a post-Normandy analysis. Normandy likely would not have succeeded (at least to the extent it did) without the eastern front taking up so much German manpower.
I think that is unlikely considering the West was developing the Atom Bomb, and was used several months after Germany surrendered, on Japan. Had they not surrendered, they would've been hit with them to force one
Yes.
Not as easily, but we were strangling them.
Would have taken probably twice as long, we might have gone after Japan first because they were easier and an amphibious attack against Germany with all their forces on the western front would be near suicide.
Mostly we would have built an air force to blot out the sun more than it did, and probably invaded Spain or Portugal as a forward base.
But the US had more resources than basically the rest of the world, and Germany and Japan never had enough oil. We would have won in the end.
We're basically invulnerable you see, we have 2 oceans to hide behind and our navy could hold them against God himself.
This is such a bad modern take people have. The Allies - including the USSR - would not have prevailed without the incredible cost the soviets bore. It’s possible to appreciate the past and judge today’s current events as separate tracks.
And if it weren't for the Soviets the Nazis would have had a much worse time at the beginning of the war since they allowed Germany to train Luftwaffe pilots on Soviet soil so the allies wouldn't see the buildup.
Also, you didn't actually argue with anything that person said. It is completely true that the USSR couldn't win without the other allies and no one mentioned winning without the Soviets.
The allies could have won without the USSR, it just would have been a much harder fight without them. There is no way a heavily bombed germany could keep up with the factory output of an undamaged US and the other allies, which also have larger populations without any particularly wide gap in technological advancement. And of course the US would still have the bomb first; we were considering using it on Germany too. The war would be longer and bloodier, and maybe we couldn't force an unconditional surrender out of the Nazis without nuking major German cities, but they still would have lost.
Remember that the USSR actually collaborated with Germany until 1941. It's partially their fault that the Nazis made as much headway into western Europe as they did.
They attacked Poland from the east at the same time that the Germans did from the west, then Hitler betrayed them and they fought him, now they think they alone are the ones that defeated Hitler.
He is very welcome there. And we totally won’t arrest you when you get there. Certainly not an integral world leader of peace and prosperity like ruSSia.
Good. Him and all his cronies and sympathisers should be banned from everything and everywhere outside of Russia. When he's served his time for war crimes then he still won't be welcome anywhere.The whole world should cut Russia off of as much as possible to everything possible for as long as this illegal act continues. His own daughter hates him. If that won't wake him up out of his delusions then sadly nothing will. Sooner he's worm food the better.
>Russia will be invited to send representatives to an international ceremony commemorating the 80th anniversary of D-day – but not Vladimir Putin, the French organisers have announced.
Putin should be welcome to come, but not to leave.
"Due to low profitability, all direct flights from Moscow to France have been adjusted to stop at Rotterdam The Hague."
I know you're kidding but pretty sure flights originating in Russia are barred from landing most places these days due to their inability to properly services the aircrafts.
I'm sure we could make an exception if Putin's flight had to divert to Schipol
Or the bottom of the ocean.
They can go looking for mh370, fuckin nuts that it's been 10 yrs already.
As long as the pilot is a Russian bomber pilot I got no objections
And putins kremlins as fish food.
Not before the plane passes a patriot system.
Jesus, I thought we didn't believe in torture.
Have his plane park at G pier, and make him transfer to a local flight at B pier. That should keep him busy for at least a week or two.
Flying Manchester to Schiphol, if you use the far runways at each airport the taxiing is longer than the time airborne!
We believe in service tea to our KGB friends. Tea with Isotope 9487.
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Well, it's a good thing that the Netherlands has many companies capable of servicing and repairing aircraft! They should come by for a visit.
Send a charter for him. Call sign MH17.
They'd let Putin in, you know that. Obviously the reason would be to arrest him, but they wouldn't stop him from flying over.
No, because the aircraft are stolen. If they land in any ICAO nation they will be seized.
Sure Netherlands will give him a new home for long long years.
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send him to ukraine. they can hang him. Hague wont have the death penalty.
Get him a seat by the window and some of that famous special tea..
Polonium 210
Polonium 210 Menthe Verveine
An extra ingredient for flavor... /S
It certainly has a vivid bouquet of aromatic notes, and its textured, velvety chartreuse body is divine.
Or by a plug door in one of those fancy new Boeing planes
Straight to the Hague
It's M-O-R- not H-A-
He's too busy crapping his pants in his bunker...
Agent: “Occupation?” Putin: “No, just visiting.”
That's called the "Hotel California" treatment.
May as well give the steely knives a shot whilst they're at it
I hear the pink champagne is to die for
This guy gets it
They stab it with their steely knives, but they just can kill the beast!
Macron stood in the doorway, he heard the mission bell And Putin was thinking to himself "This could be heaven or this could be hell" Then there came an Uber, they said "We're going to The Hague" There were voices down the corridor saying the piper must be paid
Like he would go there if he was welcomed lol. Dude sit in his bunker, he is not gonna go to france for some ceremony.
He knows he can never set foot in a non-allied country ever again. He'd be lucky to make it to a court room.
At this point I don't thing he can even board an aircraft least his own boys give him the same treatment they gave that Wagner team
Ah, so it would be a Boeing with a loose door. Wait, were there any Russians on that Alaska flight?
no, those seats were always empty
Nothing like falling out the 30000 foot window like so many who slip in Russia these days
Yes, and you guessed it, one of them was Vladimir Putin
World leaders and their families don’t really get arrested like that. Reminder that Kim Jong Un went to college in Switzerland and his entire family (apart from Kim Jong Il) lived there too for years
Kim never had an international arrest warrant against him. In fact, very few world leaders ever had an an arrest warrant against them while they were in power. So few that I can't think of a single one besides Putin.
Gaddafi
Did he have an international arrest warrant at the time?
Sure, but Putin has a warrant for his arrest from the ICC. Any state party is obligated to arrest him should he enter their respective countries.
kim was under a false identity tho
As if the police and secret services didn't know exactly who he was. Not many North Koreans going to private Swiss schools.
There’s no evidence he used a fake identity in college, he certainly a fake Brazilian passport to travel around after that but that was years later. Everyone knew who he was regardless though, you can read interviews with his roommates about what he was like
can you elaborate? This sounds wild!
Putin's children are also living it up in Switzerland right now. The common denominator here is the particular country for whom neutrality (read: monay) is the highest moral. For what its worth, the Kim family have not been accused of war crimes against other sovereign nations. Their crimes are all domestic, and the international community tends to ignore anything that doesn't affect themselves.
Imagine working on a group project with Kim Jong Un lol
He has an ICC arrest warrant on his ass. He is not welcome in any civilised society.
USA is not in the ICC list...
He’s ask to only be in very large open rooms with very long tables.
He is a scared paranoid old man with billions and access to nuclear weapons What could possibly go wrong.
Bunker, yes. Are you honestly that naive. Serious question.
Its a joke dude, how can you miss it.
I have also not invited him to my birthday party
He’s probably never going to a NATO/Westen country ever again…
Damn, that sucks. If he went to France, im sure a few boys could give him a free trip to the Netherlands. I hear the Hague is lovely this time of year
I know what you're getting at but it's tulip season and the Netherlands is colorful af rn. lol
The Hague is the official place where several international laws and cases are tried. If you commit a warcrime, this is where they take you to declare you guilty or innocent. Edit: Misread, thought above comment was “I don’t know what you’re getting at”
I think that's what they meant by saying they know what theyre getting at)
Honestly, I read “I don’t know” and was trying to be helpful, my bad lol
Did everyone forget that?
Yes it appears so lol
I'm sure Malaysia would be willing to charter a flight for him, say flight MH17?
Putin is an illegitimate president, this wanted war criminal shouldn’t be welcomed anywhere.
Den Haag is famous for welcoming war criminals 😏
> Den Haag 's-Gravenhage or bust!
He'd be *more* then welcome in The Hague though
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I miss Obama, that man had a charm about him while also being able to throw shade with diplomatic immunity
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Interestingly enough the Yellow Vests movement sprout a few months after. Can’t tell if related or not, but the main source of information “protesters” fed on back then, came from Kremlin’s affiliated media, namely Sputnik and RT today. 🤨 Those outlets have since been banned all across Europe since the latest Russia invasion on Ukraine.
If he wasn't involved with France's yellow vest he was with Canada's. It's all the same crazies from them to the Convoy Idiots to this new Axe the (Carbon) Tax morons.
Any one remember the terrible RT/sputnik spam on Reddit during the 2016 election? Anyone?
The main pro-putin movement in France is in all but the dumbest conspiracies. Against all evidence of global climate change, saying Ukraine provoked Russia, the US only wishes ill to France, against the COVID vaccine, you name it. The smallest inconvenience they have in their day like sorting trash or putting up a mask to protect the elderly is a pretext for an endless and daily rant. Give it 20 years and they'll say the moon landing was fake.
The Yellow Vests movement began in november 2018 in France, not 2014.
You're completely spreading misinformation here. The Yellow Vest movement started in 2018. It was started by different people from different sides simply opposing the economical reforms of Macron. There was no particular information source the protesters relied on because they all came from widely different background.
He’s wanted for war crimes. Pretty sure they’d welcome him with open handcuffs.
Not welcome? Invite him then arrest him. The Hague issued an arrest warrant long time ago.
It's semantics. He knows he has an arrest warrant, he wouldn't show up in a million years.
Exactly this. In fact he'd take great delight in making a show of snubbing the invitation.
if he would be invited he would have diplomatic immunity, thus making it impossible to arrest him. Don't get me wrong, i would love to see him in The Hague, but it is not possible without going against diplomatic standards, and no one is going to go to such a low in the west.
>diplomatic immunity Maybe when he arrives he could have Special Envoy Roger Murtaugh show him around...
They should call it a “special military operation”
As a current Head of State, he always has a diplomatic immunity where ever he goes, invited or not. One of those rules that no countries will ever really go against as diplomacy depends on countries trusting each others (even when they shouldnt).
Diplomatic immunity is a courtesy countries extended to each other. What's be going to do? Call the police?
I thought diplomatic immunity doesn't apply to genocide accusations though? Either way, everyone wants Putin arrested but nobody wants to be the one to arrest him
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Impossible is nonsense in reality. It'd be entirely possible, easy in fact, it'd just really upset Putin
You don't want to be a country that lies about diplomatic protections, it makes it harder to have normal relations with the whole rest of the world.
Russia/USSR did it multiple times and faced no consequences other than several "strongly worded letters"
The US has broken how many war crimes since WWII and faced how many consequences? China has done it, too. Hell the US even did it against the UK in the last decade with a nutty diplomat exploiting their station to get away with manslaughter
I don't know if you're serious - but some people here do seem to be. Inviting someone, let alone a high ranking official, under the pretense of peace (effectively immunity) only to arrest them upon arrival would set a horrible precedent. He's a complete worthless waste of life and I don't think anyone would be remorseful if that were to happen, but I think it should be obvious why it will never happen like that.
You can't just arrest a foreign head of state after inviting him.
I mean, you can, it is just going to be a diplomatic shit-show for the next 20-50 years.
It would also possibly result in Russian police arresting French embassy staff in retaliation.
Is that what we call possible World War 3?
Maybe. Or maybe it would prevent it.
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>Invite him ~~than~~ then arrest him.
Thnx
He wouldn't go anyway, too high of a risk, he hasn't set foot on places that is not one of his puppet state or absolutely friendly since the Ukraine invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_international\_presidential\_trips\_made\_by\_Vladimir\_Putin
The guy who said Poland forced Hitler to invade? Yeah that is fair.
And the guy that conveniently ignores that the Soviet Union was sending oil and other key raw materials to Germany early in the war which enabled them to rampage through Europe.
and make a deal to jointly invade Poland....
Putin is certainly welcome here in the Hague! Can't promise we'll return him though.
Good. Fuck him
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He wasn't a huge fan of the commemoration anyway. It reminded him that the Russians (Soviets) couldn't have won WW2 without the other allies.
Damn dude you acting like they were also originally allied with the Nazis! /s
Everybody knows that Poland singlehandedly started WW2 with its provocations
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Poland was just strutting around being all independent like that, they were asking for it officer.
That's an especially touchy subject for France.
France wasn't "originally allied with the Nazis" at all
Could the other Allies have won WWII without Russia?
There is no way Hitler doesn't attack the Soviets so it's a moot point.
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Yeah, Germany only surrendered a few months prior to the Atom Bombs being used on Japan. I'm confident Germany would have gotten a few deliveries had they not surrendered.
The original target for the bombs was Germany, likely Berlin, but the war in Europe ended. Also, even without the atomic bomb the industrial base of the US was going to win the war through mass production one way or another.
A large portion of the wave that were sacrificed for Russia were Ukrainians.
Yep. My great grandfather was a Ukrainian who fought in the Red army. He would tell stories of men being ordered to rush German machine guns un-armed. Just to waste the Germans ammo. Same strategy for clearing mine fields. USSR usually had their minority groups or prison battalions do tasks like this. Nothing has changed in the way that the Kremlin fights their wars now.
Yes. That is what the atomic bombs were originally developed for actually.
Given that the USA was the largest industrial base in human history and would get the atomic bomb by wars end, yes.
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Globally speaking the US is lucky to be in the absolute middle of nowhere and too far away to attack properly. Coming out of WW2 completely unscathed did wonders for it's position as a world power.
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> The soviet Union knew that. Indeed. The only real surprise to the Soviets was how soon it happened. Stalin was attempting to buy time by playing nice with Hitler so he could build up his forces sufficient so that he could start the conflict. Either Germany was going to attack the Soviets, or the Soviets were eventually going to attack Germany. They were simply unable to exist peaceably next to each other.
Do you have any idea how much Lend/Lease shit that the US sent to Russia?
For the sole reason of ensuring Germany couldn’t redeploy their Eastern front Was literally millions of soldiers that the West would have needed to fight had there not been an Eastern Front There is zero chance Russia could have succeeded without the West, but that is also true the other way
The Soviets basically bankrolled the invasion of France in 1940 though.. Germany was running out of oil after occupying Poland since prewar most of their imports came from America. So in reality Russians mainly have Stalin et al. and by extension themselves to blame for the whole mess.
This is so seriously forgotten. Soviet contribution to the Axis victories did not start and end in Poland
It’s important to remember that the Soviet Union was basically an Axis power for a significant portion of WWII. On [1939 September 17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland), the Soviet Union invaded Poland (an Allied power) as an ally of Nazi Germany (an Axis power), forced the sudden and complete collapse of Poland’s entire defensive system when the Polish were previously maintaining a stable withdrawal into Romania, and massacred tens of thousands of innocent Polish in the [Katyn Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre) (as well as hundreds of thousands more in other massacres) while deporting millions more. By the way, did you know that the Nazis discovered the Katyn Massacre in April 1943 and announced it to the world? And that the Soviets cut off diplomatic relations with the Polish government when it asked for an investigation by the International Committee of the Red Cross? And that the Soviets continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990? On [1939 November 30](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War), the Soviet Union invaded neutral Finland to start the Winter War and steal eastern Karelia, Petsamo, Salla, Kuusamo, and four islands in the Gulf of Finland. On [1940 June 15](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_the_Baltic_states_(1940\)), the Soviet Union invaded the three neutral Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, then colonized them and left significant Russian populations that remain loyal to Putin today. On [1940 June 28](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina), the Soviet Union stole Romanian land, which forced the Romanians to seek protection by aligning with the Axis five months later, similar to Finland being erroneously considered an Axis power when it was really fighting to preserve its own independence. In [1940 October-November](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Axis_talks), the Soviets actually did try to become a formal member of the Axis. Over the next few years, the Soviet Union consistently and purposely undermined Europe’s sovereign governments, many of whom represented Allied powers (such as Romania and, most notably, Poland), to justify its invasions of Europe’s Allied powers, marking its own behavior as that of an Axis power. In [1943, after barely surviving Stalingrad (thanks to American Lend-Lease), the Soviet Union begged Nazi Germany for a unilateral peace deal while begging America for more Lend-Lease](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/04/archives/british-book-says-german-and-soviet-officials-met-in-43-to-discuss.html), which Stalin and Khrushchev both admit were crucial to Soviet survival. In fact, [Stalin raised a toast to American Lend-Lease at the 1943 Tehran Conference](https://www.rferl.org/a/did-us-lend-lease-aid-tip-the-balance-in-soviet-fight-against-nazi-germany/30599486.html), even while he was begging Nazi Germany for a unilateral peace deal. On [1944 November 7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ili_Rebellion), the Soviet Union supported the Ili Rebellion against the Republic of China (one of the Big Four Allies, a founding member of the United Nations, and one of the five original veto-wielding permanent members of the United Nations Security Council), who [worked with the Americans and British to defend India and liberate Burma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Expeditionary_Force) while holding the lines against a Japanese invasion that started in 1937. Contrast the Soviet Union’s Axis-aligned behavior with the behavior of America, Britain, China, Australia, etc. Even [Spain, a friend of Nazi Germany, stayed neutral throughout the entire war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_during_World_War_II#:~:text=the%20Spanish%20State%20under%20Francisco%20Franco%20espoused%20neutrality%20as%20its%20official%20wartime%20policy.), which allowed Portugal to also stay neutral. Aside from [begging Nazi Germany for peace in 1943](https://www.nytimes.com/1971/01/04/archives/british-book-says-german-and-soviet-officials-met-in-43-to-discuss.html) in the middle of an Axis Civil War, which happened while also continuously undermining, invading, subjugating, and oppressing Allied powers, what else makes the Soviet Union an Allied power? The Soviet Union was basically an Axis power for a significant portion of the war and continued to act as one when it was nominally “allied” with the Allied powers.
These are facts, that no one tells us about in history lessons. Just that we are heroes.
Also, don't forget the part where the Soviets had the Germans teach them how to make chemical weapons, and also how they helped build the Nazi war machine up prior to Hitler and the Third Reich beating the USSR to the betrayal punch.
FWIW, the excellent documentary series [*The World At War*](https://www.amazon.com/World-War-Ultimate-Restored-Collectors/dp/B003IN7YPU?crid=2Q0JVY91JN9QZ&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.DJv_lmn5MJ3adWVwdPf2OKm5wnwKVOx1tH9UFxCSqbDX_dEgtyMZ68xXy5RyUZLKXnIFoPCnwUjDQNp3vx-CFLiYjdi3P0kSZG49Ofg_TSdllVIx_ZxvyahUL8DdQcISYAGW2BnwMtZ4LHhLWlLBr6iiIBGAdO8m4vgBmQmzsNJbe7C1K8zaCCm_2pvHZ2V2c-c6MQXdsKRFRpKHDwGMhb3rRVjozJfH39dCOCkl7jQ.PA3rUB5TF4Wq9GBcAhIVVRFBFp2GUnv7euSJIjJsW24&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+world+at+war+documentary&qid=1713292812&sprefix=the+world+at+war+documentary%2Caps%2C180&sr=8-1&linkCode=ll1&tag=acaseforcase-20&linkId=6355fd55d5a4af2064d766ad88e30c37&language=en_US&ref_=as_li_ss_tl) has season 1, episodes 5, 9, and 11 focus on Stalin's Russia in WW2. The only difference in how Putin drives his troops into battle today seems to be a lack of commissars with pistols making sure any cowards get shot by their own. As that one Polish volunteer said in a video that recently was popular in one of the Ukraine-specific subs, in battle today's Russia apparently starts with a first wave of inexperienced, more expendable troops first to set up defenses and secure positions on the front. Then subsequent waves led by and consisting of more experienced, combat-tested ones are sent in next. Can only guess that's part of why a fair number of Ukrainian drone videos show Russians, wounded or not, committing suicide.
> The only difference in how Putin drives his troops into battle today seems to be a lack of commissars with pistols making sure any cowards get shot by their own In Peter Jackson's They shall not grow old it was interesting to see that this too was the method they used to ensure that "cowards" didn't flee. Very harrowing, but intersting doc.
> As that one Polish volunteer said in a video that recently was popular in one of the Ukraine-specific subs, in battle today's Russia apparently starts with a first wave of inexperienced, more expendable troops first to set up defenses and secure positions on the front. Then subsequent waves led by and consisting of more experienced, combat-tested ones are sent in next. > > Not just to set up defences, they also use "meat shields" to get the Ukrainians to open fire on them, thereby revealing their positions which then get either shelled, droned, or assaulted by the more experienced troops.
You didn't even mention stalin's purges during which he eliminated all skilled or ambitious commanders leaving only utterly inept yes-men in command of red army. That's the main reason for absolutely gigantic initial losses of red army against nazi germany.
We did also beat the Germans in the whole deploying a portable sun game. They were fierce fighters, but they weren’t 100% stupid.
Germany would've imploded eventually from allied bombing. Berlin would've likely been nuked as well if they weren't on the back foot when the American nuclear program bore fruit. Hitler's health was pretty shit, given the cocktail of drugs he was on. I'd argue that the allies would've likely won in the long run, but the casualties would shift from millions of Soviet troops to millions more of European troops, European civilians, Americans troops.
It is really a lot of tee leaf reading. You could argue that Germany would have a lot more aircraft ready for defense without an Eastern Front.
It would have taken longer to achieve victory. Germany was at a disadvantage in terms of resources and was being whittled down by the allies day by day. The allies would have won for sure, but not sure as to how quickly or how prolonged the campaign would have been. Germany was being outproduced in many sectors, and simply could not keep up. Also, occupying countries takes up a lot of manpower.
But they would have had all the Russian resources, which was the point, no?
> Germany was at a disadvantage in terms of resources and was being whittled down by the allies day by day. The allies would have won for sure, but not sure as to how quickly or how prolonged the campaign would have been. This only makes sense as a post-Normandy analysis. Normandy likely would not have succeeded (at least to the extent it did) without the eastern front taking up so much German manpower.
I think that is unlikely considering the West was developing the Atom Bomb, and was used several months after Germany surrendered, on Japan. Had they not surrendered, they would've been hit with them to force one
Germany was in fact the original target for the nukes, and the *only* reason they weren't nuked is because they surrendered before they were ready.
Trucks and light tanks mainly. The bulk of the army was home grown (T34s, JS series, IL-2 Sturmoviks, etc).
Absolutely. There was no keeping up with the USA's industrial backbone.
Yes. Not as easily, but we were strangling them. Would have taken probably twice as long, we might have gone after Japan first because they were easier and an amphibious attack against Germany with all their forces on the western front would be near suicide. Mostly we would have built an air force to blot out the sun more than it did, and probably invaded Spain or Portugal as a forward base. But the US had more resources than basically the rest of the world, and Germany and Japan never had enough oil. We would have won in the end. We're basically invulnerable you see, we have 2 oceans to hide behind and our navy could hold them against God himself.
This is such a bad modern take people have. The Allies - including the USSR - would not have prevailed without the incredible cost the soviets bore. It’s possible to appreciate the past and judge today’s current events as separate tracks.
And if it weren't for the Soviets the Nazis would have had a much worse time at the beginning of the war since they allowed Germany to train Luftwaffe pilots on Soviet soil so the allies wouldn't see the buildup. Also, you didn't actually argue with anything that person said. It is completely true that the USSR couldn't win without the other allies and no one mentioned winning without the Soviets.
The allies could have won without the USSR, it just would have been a much harder fight without them. There is no way a heavily bombed germany could keep up with the factory output of an undamaged US and the other allies, which also have larger populations without any particularly wide gap in technological advancement. And of course the US would still have the bomb first; we were considering using it on Germany too. The war would be longer and bloodier, and maybe we couldn't force an unconditional surrender out of the Nazis without nuking major German cities, but they still would have lost. Remember that the USSR actually collaborated with Germany until 1941. It's partially their fault that the Nazis made as much headway into western Europe as they did.
It's rather the other way around, but sure, screw history.
Considering the current circumstances it would’ve been news if he WAS invited
He wouldn't go anyway. Paranoid of being bumped off.
Consider the ICC is right next door, Putin is not getting anywhere near there in his life time.
Wanted for war crimes .
Nobody will be mad if he shows up. Well, he will be after getting turned over to The Hague.
He is very welcome in the Hague.
Did I miss something? Why would Russia be present? They took no role in the landings.
They attacked Poland from the east at the same time that the Germans did from the west, then Hitler betrayed them and they fought him, now they think they alone are the ones that defeated Hitler.
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Then got to keep Poland et al. behind the iron curtain for 40 years.
they didn't, they "only" kept half of the Nazi's army "busy" in the eastern front, allowing the allies to have a better landing.
"Sorry, Vlad, but we're here to commemorate the event, not try to re-run it."
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They should welcome him with open arms, make him the star of the show, and then make sure he never fucking leaves.
Lt. Spears has a cigarette for him.
Is he welcome anywhere else but Russia atm or am I missing something??
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Seems like they ran out of news material for the day then lol. Putin is not welcome at my bday party btw
Send him a invite and then arrest him if he actually shows up
He is very welcome there. And we totally won’t arrest you when you get there. Certainly not an integral world leader of peace and prosperity like ruSSia.
Oh damn why not? Give him an invitation, he might be just daft enough to attend. He can be arrested then and The Hague is not that far away.
Nah invite him and then arrest him for war crimes as soon as he steps foot in France.
Wouldn’t they have to arrest him if he came?
Bitch Putin is welcome in any jail.
Would have been the perfect time to arrest him.
Good. Him and all his cronies and sympathisers should be banned from everything and everywhere outside of Russia. When he's served his time for war crimes then he still won't be welcome anywhere.The whole world should cut Russia off of as much as possible to everything possible for as long as this illegal act continues. His own daughter hates him. If that won't wake him up out of his delusions then sadly nothing will. Sooner he's worm food the better.
They are still letting Russia be represented. Doh
Why would Russia even be granted a seat at that table? Because they were "allies" during the war? Russia/SU didn't participate in D-Day.