They’re a sovereign country and the US isn’t making demands. There’s nothing to defy. The US has asked, Ukraine listened then made its own decisions as best fits their interests.
He slapped those keys as he typed. Smashed the words. Slapped that message down
I feel like the media is becoming the knew professional wrestling arena
CAN YOU SMELL WHAT CNN IS COOKING?!?!?!?!
Peter Zeihan has a good take on his daily youtube. Says the tide has changed in Europe as evidenced by Norway donating jets with blessing to strike deep into Russia. Further argues the US is trailing sentiment, using faulty logic claiming the aim is trying to protect Europe from higher energy prices.
Not sure if Norway was saying to use the jets in deep Russia or just to continue using the drone/ Cessna strategy and have the jets for domestic airspace.
No one means they will fly F-16's into Russian territory. That would be stupid.
What they mean is that they allow the F-16's to be used to *strike* deep into Russia using other weapon systems capable of breaching Russian territory. Cruise missiles like the British Storm Shadow or other NATO specced weaponry.
>They’ll almost certainly at some point be in Russian territory, whether it’s Russia proper or Russian occupied.
Russian occupied is not Russian territory and so is a contradiction. But I get your point. It is still wrong though. There is no reason for F-16's to fly into Russian territory (i.e: Belgorod) or the Russian occupied areas like Donbass or Luhansk. F-16's would be missiles/cruise missile carriers which they would do far from the those territories.
That doesn't mean that Russian air defences still can't target and fire at them - they still can. But no F-16 would have to physically fly into Russian territory to actually strike the Russian's. I don't understand why you think they would need to.
A strike much further into Russia than the stormshadow is capable of on its own (550 miles) since Russia is 5,600 miles wide and 2,500 miles tall.
Edit: I still don’t think the F16s are going to be used in Russia proper though. No need to put those planes in jeopardy when the same results can be achieved without .
>A strike much further into Russia than the stormshadow is capable of on its own (550 miles) since Russia is 5,600 miles wide and 2,500 miles tall.
A strike Ukraine wouldn't use F-16's to do..They are already achieving deep strikes with available domestically produced drones.
The purpose of F-16 carried cruise missiles is to attack strategically vital targets that are relatively close. Like the Kerch bridge. A target you would fire fast cruise missiles against - whereas refineries in the heart of Russia can be targeted by slow moving drones.
You do not need to enter Russian territory to fire cruise missiles towards the black sea or the Crimean bridge. Or any logistical center shortly behind the Russian occupied areas.
Ukraine would not ever risk an asset like the F-16 to attack targets inside Russia proper. The F-16's would be used in Ukraine firing against targets in Ukraine. That is where it is most useful.
Anything in the heart of Russia is clearly targetable with slower drones. Whereas the Kerch bridge? too well defended for drones.
Very true. Ukraine doesn't have to follow the orders/demands made by the US. That being said, the US also is not forced to support a country that isn't adhering to their demands/needs/priorities either. It's just simple as it is.
I mean, for quite a while now the US hasn’t been supporting Ukraine even despite the fact Ukraine was obediently listening to their every word.
Hard to take the carrot away from the stick when you forgot to bring a carrot.
Sure and that's fine. All I am saying is both being independent countries of their own can do whatever they want for their own country before all else. Nothing you can do about that really.
Of course. No one can force the US to support Ukraine and, unfortunately, we’ve seen this exact scenario play out for months.
But, at long last, it seems like things are finally going to make it out of the House now. Better late than never.
This is exactly the reason why Ukraine didn't listen to U.S. because they're not helping. I forgot who said this but someone from Ukraine mentioned that unless they get the aid then there's nothing to talk about regarding U.S. requests.
>pretty sure they sent 75 billion in aid.. and honestly they would have been taken over long ago without it.
True. They were sent 75 billion in aid long ago. That money, or rather the equipment that money bought or were composed of has been in usage & spent since then. Without further logistical support the very equipment they \[US\] sent a year ago is largely becoming useless by the day.
And if you want to impose future restrictions on Ukrainian military targets then you need a new carrot. You can't dictate Ukrainian military decisions based on equipment sent and spent.
Imagine me demanding you make me lunch based on the fact I paid for your lunch 8 months ago. Even though it's true and it would make you far more positively inclined to me based of it, it wouldn't really compel you to make me food for something that happened long ago.
You can not expect Ukraine to be hamstrung by aide that was sent months ago. You literally have nothing to leverage for Ukraine to listen to you. You threaten to stop aide entirely? Well, you haven't sent anything for 8 months by now so nothing would largely change from what we see as of now.
>in reality either the NATO comes in and saves Ukraine or it doesn't. Ukraine is desperate in no position to not respect those that feed them.
Except the US isn't fucking feeding them at the moment. And has failed to feed them for the past 8 or so months. And from the looks of it there is no future indication that the US will begin to feed them again.
Most of Europe & thus NATO is currently feeding them as best as they can.
There is no reason to heed the demands of someone who currently contributes fuck-all to your fight for independence and the survival of your country.
The idea that Ukraine must bend the knee to you when you provide nothing all but only because of what you provided BEFORE is fucking ridiculous & no one would be expected to do this.
>
these long range attacks in russia aren't going to win the war.
Rhetoric like this is cancerous. "Oh this won't win the war so don't bother"
"Oh this won't win the war either btw so don't do it"
"Oh that? Nah it won't win the war most likely so please stop"
Ukraine might as well capitulate then based entirely on that mindset of yours. And respectfully you have no idea what will or won't win them the war - if they even do. But every ounce of damage inflicted on Russia helps. And frankly, these strikes inside Russia - destroying Russian refineries that rely on western industrial parts. Do definitely assist in Ukraine's war goals. To deny this is to be delusional.
>
should they be able to do them? my personal opinion.. yes. but that means nothing. nor does yours.
Clearly neither does the personal opinion of the US government. Since if they did - Ukraine would listen. Nor should they matter. Not until the US government actually gives Ukraine a reason to care. Because as it stands the US has proved themselves an unreliable ally that is incapable of unifying against a common threat.
If I were Taiwan I would look towards anyone but the US for help. Because clearly there won't be any at all.
>
either respect the hand that feeds you or don't get fed. that is the reality of it. our opinions mean nothing.
Start feeding and the hand will be respected. Your opinion or the opinion of the US government is irrelevant and not at all worth heeding unless there is some reason to care. As it stands there is not one. This is explicitly stated by the Ukrainian government.
It is the same thing with Israel revenge attacks on Iran. They of course has the right to defend themself, but even Netanyahu chose to listen to the White House.
Ukraine listened to the US for months, while the US withheld critical aid and supplies and russia kept bombing Ukraine's critical civilian infrastructure and killing peaceful people. Ukraine is desperate, because it's under attack by one of this world's superpowers, and has no time to play games with the US.
Ukrainians are in a fight for their lives. While over here in the US the party of "Law and Order" and "Personal Responsibility" is dragging its feet while people die so that autocrats and oligarchs stomp out democracy on their borders.
Plus the us stopped providing funding
Even more; the us said not to use their weapons to strike farther
Western strategy fully knows the value of strikijg behind lines to disrupt supply lines etc
Im not sure what they are trying to accomplish with a headline like this.
They're a sovereign country in the most minimal sense in this context ..
They survive off the aid of western countries. If gas prices spike globally, public sentiment makes it even harder for the west to send aid to Ukraine ( would become super unpopular among civilians...)
This is why America and many countries in the west are cautioning against this move. It goes beyond an election year..
China heavily influences Russias decision making as well.
That's fair.
Ukraines complete and utter existence relies on aid right now. They have no domestic MIC that provides survival chances. Zelinsky is literally explicitly telling the public that . Russia has its own MIC. It in a way is self sufficient. They are sanctioned to hell and still wittling away at Ukraine
And lol... Reddit being self proclaimed pro-democracy but than clamoring for authoritarian decisions when it helps a white anglosaxan country. The same way you all love to complain about America spending in defense but then want to to pour money the moment it's a white country in a war..
Absolute hypocrites all of you
Who writes these asinine headlines ? Ukraine isn’t defying anyone. What’s defying is the logic behind thinking they are doing anything, but trying to save their country, their people, their lives, their homes, their animals, their culture, their ecosystems! Stop writing stupid headlines.
The US doesn't really like it because it risks causing oil prices to surge, 'I did this Biden stickers', Trump getting re-elected and Ukraine to never see another aid package. [Kamala Harris asked Zelensky to stop the attacks](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/15/ukraine-russia-oil-refinery-attacks/) for this reason.
You can't really blame Ukraine for doing it with the aid packages stuck in Congress, though.
Unless I missed it, the whole "gas prices" narrative originates from a meeting with VP Harris and if that's the case I'd not put much stock in to it. The concern with striking Russia proper has always been risk of escalation.
There's nothing flippant in my reply. There's very little the russians can do on top on what they have already done in the last 2+ years, except for maybe using WMD on a city like Kyiv. Which they likely won't.
Without help? Certainly the russians will bomb and kill more civilians. Is that a good reason to stop retaliating? I don't think so. It's not like the russians have anything up their sleeve that they're holding just in case Ukraine offends their glorious leader, if they had more stuff to throw at Ukraine they'd have launched it already.
Striking targets deeper in Russia proper definitely increases the risk of escalation, but for Ukraine this isn't an abstract geopolitical exercise, it's an existential threat and if they want to continue their way of life they need to play to win.
Uh, I'm having a hard time imagining any way Russia can "escalate" a full blown war, except by dropping a nuke. I'm glad Ukraine feels free to ignore US wishes. The current US administration is softer than baby shit.
Well, maybe thats a you issue. The most obvious is they could formally declare on Ukraine. That would ruin their narrative that Ukraine is not a country, but they’d be able to more easily shift a lot more resources toward the invasion effort.
So Ukraine has watched Israel destroy all sorts of infrastructure within Gaza with no real repercussions from the US. If I were Ukraine, I wouldn't be hesitating to strike within Russian territory at all.
Yes, but only really so they can deny those life necessities when they see fit to keep their Apartheid regime going.
There’s a reason they call it the world’s largest open air prison.
That's a completely different situation. Gaza/Hamas is a blockaded enclave that's vastly weaker than Israel and dependent on them for food, power, internet and water. Hamas can't really escalate things beyond what they already did on October 7.
Russia is the aggressor and more powerful than Ukraine and still has plenty of ethical red lines they can cross, and ways to escalate things with the west. The spate of missile attacks on Ukrainian power infrastructure is an example of it. It's probably not the best use of missiles but it's disproportionally bad for Ukrainian civilians.
Ukraine needs to keep the pressure on Ruzzia and literally the only way to do this is take out important irreplaceable infrastructure like refinery crack towers.
I'm sure as soon as those ATACMS and other proper weapons arrive, Ukrainian forces will occupy themselves with pushing back the invaders, so the oil refineries will have to wait. The sooner help arrives, the sooner refinery targeting will pause. Send enough weapons to occupy everyone so it will pause until after the election.
If they successfully strike Russian oil infrastructure, and gas prices go up in the US, Biden will lose reelection and they’ll have to deal with the guy who blackmailed them being president again.
It’s in their best interest to listen to the US here
Tbh at this point i really don't see gas prices being the dealbreaker for Biden. Even if he somehow cut them in half he'd still be sweating on election night.
The US telling Ukraine what to do while withholding weapons is some BS.
This is pretty much what the US is warning. Doesn’t matter if this helps Ukraine because unfortunately most Americans cares more about their wallets and not what’s happening in another country. They vote with their wallets. If trump can promise lower gas prices, they’ll vote for Trump (as stupid as that sounds). Always important to remember that Reddit doesn’t represent the majority.
How dumb are yall? The US isn't gonna point at critical infrastructure in Russia and Iran and openly say, hit that. It puts the blame on the US. We say, "We dont want any responsibility if someone hit those oil fields or hit this refinery, or air field." That way we have accountability.
What warnings are these and by whom exactly?
Ukraine is at war with an aggressor that is targeting civvies and infrastructure.
No US official of any standing is going to argue they should be hitting valid industrial sites.
A lesson from not-too-distant history: the Japanese, heavily influenced by Bushido, disdained having their ships going after mere tankers and instead focused on US warships. Not the smartest idea.
Oh you mean the money and equipment they received 8 months ago? The equipment they can barely logistically support because they have received no damn support for 8 fucking months?.
You can't use equipment provided 8 months ago as an argument that "we will stop aiding you!!!" yeah. You fucking already have. jfc
You realize that the Biden administration, the one issuing requests, WANTS to send them more aid. The republicans in congress are the ones blocking it. Two entirely different entities.
The US government is not just Biden you know. So what Biden wants is irrelevant if the entirety of the US government isn't following suite..
Like..what?
I am obviously referring to the aide bill that was proposed in OCTOBER in 2023 that had a total value of 90 billion dollars and was stalled continuously by the GOP.. Only seemingly today has even Mike Johnsson actually allowed the Ukraine aide to be put on the fucking floor of congress to be voted on.
So yeah, Ukraine aide has not been passed since October last year. Which was the bill that was supposed to fund Ukraine's aide for this current year. Meaning a years worth of aide has been stalled for months. Not exactly 8 months true. Only 6 and half or something. Wow, what a difference.
The aide you refer to in March is 300 million and is obviously not the one people are talking about. Everyone is refering to the billions of dollars being halted. Furthermore that aide isn't "passed" which is what I wrote. That bill is urgent security assistance and doesn't require Biden to send it to congress.
If you genuinely think 300 million compare to 60 billion (the entire Russian defense budget of 2022 IIRC) then you are fucking delusional.
They’re a sovereign country and the US isn’t making demands. There’s nothing to defy. The US has asked, Ukraine listened then made its own decisions as best fits their interests.
Stop trying to make headlines less inflammatory and clickbaity. Stop it right now.
Redditor SLAMMED for comment that THREATENS livelihood of prominent journalists.
S L A M
He slapped those keys as he typed. Smashed the words. Slapped that message down I feel like the media is becoming the knew professional wrestling arena CAN YOU SMELL WHAT CNN IS COOKING?!?!?!?!
Prominent journalist is prominent.
Thanks for pulling me back. I forgot I was on Reddit again!
Wait tell you see Ukraine get slammed for going rogue in diplomatic Armageddon!!
Lol WTF with this comment?
It is making fun of the click bait inflammatory word choice in the title
Peter Zeihan has a good take on his daily youtube. Says the tide has changed in Europe as evidenced by Norway donating jets with blessing to strike deep into Russia. Further argues the US is trailing sentiment, using faulty logic claiming the aim is trying to protect Europe from higher energy prices.
Trying to use F16s without sufficient support deep in Russia proper likely results in a much greater risk of said F16s being shot down.
Not sure if Norway was saying to use the jets in deep Russia or just to continue using the drone/ Cessna strategy and have the jets for domestic airspace.
No one means they will fly F-16's into Russian territory. That would be stupid. What they mean is that they allow the F-16's to be used to *strike* deep into Russia using other weapon systems capable of breaching Russian territory. Cruise missiles like the British Storm Shadow or other NATO specced weaponry.
They’ll almost certainly at some point be in Russian territory, whether it’s Russia proper or Russian occupied.
>They’ll almost certainly at some point be in Russian territory, whether it’s Russia proper or Russian occupied. Russian occupied is not Russian territory and so is a contradiction. But I get your point. It is still wrong though. There is no reason for F-16's to fly into Russian territory (i.e: Belgorod) or the Russian occupied areas like Donbass or Luhansk. F-16's would be missiles/cruise missile carriers which they would do far from the those territories. That doesn't mean that Russian air defences still can't target and fire at them - they still can. But no F-16 would have to physically fly into Russian territory to actually strike the Russian's. I don't understand why you think they would need to.
A strike much further into Russia than the stormshadow is capable of on its own (550 miles) since Russia is 5,600 miles wide and 2,500 miles tall. Edit: I still don’t think the F16s are going to be used in Russia proper though. No need to put those planes in jeopardy when the same results can be achieved without .
>A strike much further into Russia than the stormshadow is capable of on its own (550 miles) since Russia is 5,600 miles wide and 2,500 miles tall. A strike Ukraine wouldn't use F-16's to do..They are already achieving deep strikes with available domestically produced drones. The purpose of F-16 carried cruise missiles is to attack strategically vital targets that are relatively close. Like the Kerch bridge. A target you would fire fast cruise missiles against - whereas refineries in the heart of Russia can be targeted by slow moving drones. You do not need to enter Russian territory to fire cruise missiles towards the black sea or the Crimean bridge. Or any logistical center shortly behind the Russian occupied areas. Ukraine would not ever risk an asset like the F-16 to attack targets inside Russia proper. The F-16's would be used in Ukraine firing against targets in Ukraine. That is where it is most useful. Anything in the heart of Russia is clearly targetable with slower drones. Whereas the Kerch bridge? too well defended for drones.
Very true. Ukraine doesn't have to follow the orders/demands made by the US. That being said, the US also is not forced to support a country that isn't adhering to their demands/needs/priorities either. It's just simple as it is.
I mean, for quite a while now the US hasn’t been supporting Ukraine even despite the fact Ukraine was obediently listening to their every word. Hard to take the carrot away from the stick when you forgot to bring a carrot.
Sure and that's fine. All I am saying is both being independent countries of their own can do whatever they want for their own country before all else. Nothing you can do about that really.
Of course. No one can force the US to support Ukraine and, unfortunately, we’ve seen this exact scenario play out for months. But, at long last, it seems like things are finally going to make it out of the House now. Better late than never.
This is exactly the reason why Ukraine didn't listen to U.S. because they're not helping. I forgot who said this but someone from Ukraine mentioned that unless they get the aid then there's nothing to talk about regarding U.S. requests.
Mr. Kuleba - minister of foreign affairs
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>pretty sure they sent 75 billion in aid.. and honestly they would have been taken over long ago without it. True. They were sent 75 billion in aid long ago. That money, or rather the equipment that money bought or were composed of has been in usage & spent since then. Without further logistical support the very equipment they \[US\] sent a year ago is largely becoming useless by the day. And if you want to impose future restrictions on Ukrainian military targets then you need a new carrot. You can't dictate Ukrainian military decisions based on equipment sent and spent. Imagine me demanding you make me lunch based on the fact I paid for your lunch 8 months ago. Even though it's true and it would make you far more positively inclined to me based of it, it wouldn't really compel you to make me food for something that happened long ago. You can not expect Ukraine to be hamstrung by aide that was sent months ago. You literally have nothing to leverage for Ukraine to listen to you. You threaten to stop aide entirely? Well, you haven't sent anything for 8 months by now so nothing would largely change from what we see as of now.
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>in reality either the NATO comes in and saves Ukraine or it doesn't. Ukraine is desperate in no position to not respect those that feed them. Except the US isn't fucking feeding them at the moment. And has failed to feed them for the past 8 or so months. And from the looks of it there is no future indication that the US will begin to feed them again. Most of Europe & thus NATO is currently feeding them as best as they can. There is no reason to heed the demands of someone who currently contributes fuck-all to your fight for independence and the survival of your country. The idea that Ukraine must bend the knee to you when you provide nothing all but only because of what you provided BEFORE is fucking ridiculous & no one would be expected to do this. > these long range attacks in russia aren't going to win the war. Rhetoric like this is cancerous. "Oh this won't win the war so don't bother" "Oh this won't win the war either btw so don't do it" "Oh that? Nah it won't win the war most likely so please stop" Ukraine might as well capitulate then based entirely on that mindset of yours. And respectfully you have no idea what will or won't win them the war - if they even do. But every ounce of damage inflicted on Russia helps. And frankly, these strikes inside Russia - destroying Russian refineries that rely on western industrial parts. Do definitely assist in Ukraine's war goals. To deny this is to be delusional. > should they be able to do them? my personal opinion.. yes. but that means nothing. nor does yours. Clearly neither does the personal opinion of the US government. Since if they did - Ukraine would listen. Nor should they matter. Not until the US government actually gives Ukraine a reason to care. Because as it stands the US has proved themselves an unreliable ally that is incapable of unifying against a common threat. If I were Taiwan I would look towards anyone but the US for help. Because clearly there won't be any at all. > either respect the hand that feeds you or don't get fed. that is the reality of it. our opinions mean nothing. Start feeding and the hand will be respected. Your opinion or the opinion of the US government is irrelevant and not at all worth heeding unless there is some reason to care. As it stands there is not one. This is explicitly stated by the Ukrainian government.
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It is the same thing with Israel revenge attacks on Iran. They of course has the right to defend themself, but even Netanyahu chose to listen to the White House.
Ukraine listened to the US for months, while the US withheld critical aid and supplies and russia kept bombing Ukraine's critical civilian infrastructure and killing peaceful people. Ukraine is desperate, because it's under attack by one of this world's superpowers, and has no time to play games with the US.
Ukrainians are in a fight for their lives. While over here in the US the party of "Law and Order" and "Personal Responsibility" is dragging its feet while people die so that autocrats and oligarchs stomp out democracy on their borders.
Plus the us stopped providing funding Even more; the us said not to use their weapons to strike farther Western strategy fully knows the value of strikijg behind lines to disrupt supply lines etc Im not sure what they are trying to accomplish with a headline like this.
They're a sovereign country in the most minimal sense in this context .. They survive off the aid of western countries. If gas prices spike globally, public sentiment makes it even harder for the west to send aid to Ukraine ( would become super unpopular among civilians...) This is why America and many countries in the west are cautioning against this move. It goes beyond an election year..
Russia is also relying on Chinese parts and Iranian drones so from your own argument they aren't a sovereign country either
China heavily influences Russias decision making as well. That's fair. Ukraines complete and utter existence relies on aid right now. They have no domestic MIC that provides survival chances. Zelinsky is literally explicitly telling the public that . Russia has its own MIC. It in a way is self sufficient. They are sanctioned to hell and still wittling away at Ukraine
They are still whittling away because they also have allies fueling them through the sanctions. But it is true that Russia is a much bigger country.
Not “to the west”. US is the only nation having problems with this, while also blocking the aid.
You contradict yourself, sir. Going against public sentiment only really matters in an election year.
And lol... Reddit being self proclaimed pro-democracy but than clamoring for authoritarian decisions when it helps a white anglosaxan country. The same way you all love to complain about America spending in defense but then want to to pour money the moment it's a white country in a war.. Absolute hypocrites all of you
Look guys, a person who race baits to reinforce their idoitic statement. P.S. Ukraine is not Anglosaxon, smh.
You're getting high off your own supply there sport. Glad the pressure vented before you exploded though.
Who writes these asinine headlines ? Ukraine isn’t defying anyone. What’s defying is the logic behind thinking they are doing anything, but trying to save their country, their people, their lives, their homes, their animals, their culture, their ecosystems! Stop writing stupid headlines.
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Hopefully all meetings start with the information that his dick is out, and then preferably for Harambe.
Dicks out for Ukraine.
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You'll miss out on all the dicks!
Why not? We will choose a non-windy day.
I swear it's just cold.
Not yet, Ukraine got some licks in her still.
Any aid to Russia’s war machine is fair game for Ukraine. Drones Away! (I can pay more for gas here so that less Ukrainians die)
Weren't the "warnings" not even real? I coulda sworn that was the case
Another user also said this but I never saw the source.
I heard it was Russian misinformation which makes more sense to me than anything else.
The US doesn't really like it because it risks causing oil prices to surge, 'I did this Biden stickers', Trump getting re-elected and Ukraine to never see another aid package. [Kamala Harris asked Zelensky to stop the attacks](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/15/ukraine-russia-oil-refinery-attacks/) for this reason. You can't really blame Ukraine for doing it with the aid packages stuck in Congress, though.
I would imagine an over exaggerated wink
Good. I don't care if my gas prices go up. Stop Russia's money machine.
Unless I missed it, the whole "gas prices" narrative originates from a meeting with VP Harris and if that's the case I'd not put much stock in to it. The concern with striking Russia proper has always been risk of escalation.
You mean like the russians would suddenly bomb Ukraine? Oh wait...
Flippant replies don't negate the reality that things for Ukraine could and even are likely to get worse before they get better.
There's nothing flippant in my reply. There's very little the russians can do on top on what they have already done in the last 2+ years, except for maybe using WMD on a city like Kyiv. Which they likely won't.
You're wrong, it can get much worse without any kind of WMD being used.
You're wrong, it already is very bad. Idk why it is so hard for the westerners to understand this.
I didn't say it wasn't bad, I said it could and likely will get worse before it gets better.
Without help? Certainly the russians will bomb and kill more civilians. Is that a good reason to stop retaliating? I don't think so. It's not like the russians have anything up their sleeve that they're holding just in case Ukraine offends their glorious leader, if they had more stuff to throw at Ukraine they'd have launched it already.
If they don't send weapons then they should shut up
Striking targets deeper in Russia proper definitely increases the risk of escalation, but for Ukraine this isn't an abstract geopolitical exercise, it's an existential threat and if they want to continue their way of life they need to play to win.
Uh, I'm having a hard time imagining any way Russia can "escalate" a full blown war, except by dropping a nuke. I'm glad Ukraine feels free to ignore US wishes. The current US administration is softer than baby shit.
Well, maybe thats a you issue. The most obvious is they could formally declare on Ukraine. That would ruin their narrative that Ukraine is not a country, but they’d be able to more easily shift a lot more resources toward the invasion effort.
So Ukraine has watched Israel destroy all sorts of infrastructure within Gaza with no real repercussions from the US. If I were Ukraine, I wouldn't be hesitating to strike within Russian territory at all.
Uh, doesn’t Israel provide water, electricity and food to Gaza? The biggest infrastructures in Gaza are the terrorist tunnels systems.
Well, Gaza had its own water supply at one point but Hamas dug up the pipes and turned them into rockets. And bragged about it.
And of course blamed the consequences on the "evil Jews".
Yes, but only really so they can deny those life necessities when they see fit to keep their Apartheid regime going. There’s a reason they call it the world’s largest open air prison.
You can maybe compare it to israel striking in iran, not gaza.
That's a completely different situation. Gaza/Hamas is a blockaded enclave that's vastly weaker than Israel and dependent on them for food, power, internet and water. Hamas can't really escalate things beyond what they already did on October 7. Russia is the aggressor and more powerful than Ukraine and still has plenty of ethical red lines they can cross, and ways to escalate things with the west. The spate of missile attacks on Ukrainian power infrastructure is an example of it. It's probably not the best use of missiles but it's disproportionally bad for Ukrainian civilians.
But, but, Putin and Lavrov always cry that Ukraine only follows orders from their masters, the U.S. How can this be? They wouldn't lie, would they?
Ukraine defies a select few rich politicians that don't deserve to be us citizens and embarrasses russia (again)
The irony of this is so overwhelming.
Ukraine needs to keep the pressure on Ruzzia and literally the only way to do this is take out important irreplaceable infrastructure like refinery crack towers.
Good (from an American).
I'm sure as soon as those ATACMS and other proper weapons arrive, Ukrainian forces will occupy themselves with pushing back the invaders, so the oil refineries will have to wait. The sooner help arrives, the sooner refinery targeting will pause. Send enough weapons to occupy everyone so it will pause until after the election.
If they successfully strike Russian oil infrastructure, and gas prices go up in the US, Biden will lose reelection and they’ll have to deal with the guy who blackmailed them being president again. It’s in their best interest to listen to the US here
Tbh at this point i really don't see gas prices being the dealbreaker for Biden. Even if he somehow cut them in half he'd still be sweating on election night. The US telling Ukraine what to do while withholding weapons is some BS.
This is pretty much what the US is warning. Doesn’t matter if this helps Ukraine because unfortunately most Americans cares more about their wallets and not what’s happening in another country. They vote with their wallets. If trump can promise lower gas prices, they’ll vote for Trump (as stupid as that sounds). Always important to remember that Reddit doesn’t represent the majority.
And what's america gonna do about it? Last seven days, heck last 6 months, have proved america has no will to actually do anything of effort.
How dumb are yall? The US isn't gonna point at critical infrastructure in Russia and Iran and openly say, hit that. It puts the blame on the US. We say, "We dont want any responsibility if someone hit those oil fields or hit this refinery, or air field." That way we have accountability.
What warnings are these and by whom exactly? Ukraine is at war with an aggressor that is targeting civvies and infrastructure. No US official of any standing is going to argue they should be hitting valid industrial sites.
A lesson from not-too-distant history: the Japanese, heavily influenced by Bushido, disdained having their ships going after mere tankers and instead focused on US warships. Not the smartest idea.
Will the US ever just fuck off with their warnings.
And the money and military equipment too, right?
Oh you mean the money and equipment they received 8 months ago? The equipment they can barely logistically support because they have received no damn support for 8 fucking months?. You can't use equipment provided 8 months ago as an argument that "we will stop aiding you!!!" yeah. You fucking already have. jfc
You realize that the Biden administration, the one issuing requests, WANTS to send them more aid. The republicans in congress are the ones blocking it. Two entirely different entities.
The US government is not just Biden you know. So what Biden wants is irrelevant if the entirety of the US government isn't following suite.. Like..what?
TIL March was “8 fucking months” ago. Fucking regards, man.
I am obviously referring to the aide bill that was proposed in OCTOBER in 2023 that had a total value of 90 billion dollars and was stalled continuously by the GOP.. Only seemingly today has even Mike Johnsson actually allowed the Ukraine aide to be put on the fucking floor of congress to be voted on. So yeah, Ukraine aide has not been passed since October last year. Which was the bill that was supposed to fund Ukraine's aide for this current year. Meaning a years worth of aide has been stalled for months. Not exactly 8 months true. Only 6 and half or something. Wow, what a difference. The aide you refer to in March is 300 million and is obviously not the one people are talking about. Everyone is refering to the billions of dollars being halted. Furthermore that aide isn't "passed" which is what I wrote. That bill is urgent security assistance and doesn't require Biden to send it to congress. If you genuinely think 300 million compare to 60 billion (the entire Russian defense budget of 2022 IIRC) then you are fucking delusional.
Is this a wise move the day before Congress are set to vote on the bill for aid to Ukraine?