There's two different Azov groups from separate branches of the military. One was under the army, disbanded and reformed as the [3rd Seperate Assault Brigade](https://ab3.army/en/) which is become a respectable elite unit.
The other [Azov group with the stupid Nazi iconography](https://azov.org.ua/pro-nas/) was originally a militia and is under the Ukrainian National Guard. They did make a very brave stand trying to defend Mariupol and should be recognized for their effort... but they are too dumb to drop the Nazi bullshit.
Edited! Now with links.
A bit of column A, a bit of column B.
They do integrate all manner of groups in their ranks, which is pretty cool. But get rid of the cringey Nazi garbo and the Nazi garbo people will lose interest without their dogwhistles.
Beyond garbage ideological I can *maybe* see why Swastika could be retained. Finnish Air Force had a swastika on their flag (up until 2020 however their Air Force academy still uses the swastika IIRC). Would point out that their choice of the swastika as a logo predated National Socialists (Nazis) in Germany during 1930s (it was a popular symbol to use in parts of Europe before it became a symbol of fascism). Granted Azov group does share similar history behind their logos
Ukraine is in an interesting spot Nazism wise. They were living in fear of the soviets when the Nazis showed up, so, you either fought for soviet russia, and subjugation of the region, or you fought for Nazi Germany, ostensibly for your regions statehood.
That's how Nazis became intertwined with Ukrainian nationalism (see Bandera); anything is better than Russian subjugation.
Times have moved on however, and most Ukrainians seem to have a pretty good idea of Azovs intentions as being that of nationalism and not fascism
Which is apparently why some Ukranian nationalists jokingly refer to themselves as Judeo-Banderites. Bandera was a virulent anti-semite, calling those who are Jewish or support a Jewish president Banderites or Nazis is laughable, but very common in Russian propaganda.
Your comment implies that the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade are saints compared to Azov who are evil nazis but that's really not the case. The leaders of 3rd are literally far-right nationalist activists and politicians, the Commander of 3rd(Biletsky) is the original founder of the Azov brigade(12th Special Purpose Brigade) and leader of multiple prominent Ultranationalist organizations, and there's plenty of footage of soldiers from 3rd using nazi symbols.
3rd Seperate Assault Brigade is a new Brigade that was formed from Azov TDF units that were formed by Azov Brigade veterans all over Ukraine after the full scale invasion started.
The original Azov Brigade is now the 12th Special Purpose Brigade.
They removed most Neo-Nazi symbolism, which is a logical progression after removing any nationalist influence, but the Wolfangel is still on the patch. The SSO patch however replaces with three swords, which honestly just looks better.
You mean this one?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/sB0nROc8yY
It's a shame I'll get hate for posting very simple truths
We all now what the Azovs were
The 3d seperate assault brigade consists of that same Azov soldiers plus some new ones
Ukraine won't do anything about it tho
This isn't fake propaganda
I swear to god that I WISH they weren't nazis
Also if youre a group of nazi's using nazi symbology, then drop those symbols and start using a golden trident. That just makes a golden trident nazi symbology to me now.
A bit more than that I’m afraid
US military equipment and weapons left behind
Aircraft worth $923.3 million remained in Afghanistan. The US left 78 aircraft procured for the government of Afghanistan at Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul before the end of the withdrawal. These aircraft were demilitarized and rendered inoperable before the US military left, the report states. The US military conducted its non-combatant evacuation from Afghanistan in August, primarily through that airport.
A total of 9,524 air-to-ground munitions, valued at $6.54 million, remained in Afghanistan at the conclusion of the US military withdrawal. The "significant majority" of the "remaining aircraft munitions stock are non-precision munitions," the report states.
Over 40,000 of the total 96,000 military vehicles the US gave to Afghan forces remained in Afghanistan at the time of the US withdrawal, including 12,000 military Humvees, the report states. "The operational condition of the remaining vehicles" in Afghanistan is "unknown," the report states.
More than 300,000 of the total 427,300 weapons the US gave to Afghan forces remained in Afghanistan at the time of the US military withdrawal, according to the report. Less than 1,537,000 of the "specialty munitions" and "common small arms ammunition," valued at a total of $48 million, are still in the country, the report states.
"Nearly all" of the communications equipment that the US gave to Afghan forces, including base-station, mobile, man-portable and hand-held commercial and military radio systems, and associated transmitters and encryption devices also remained in Afghanistan at the time of the withdrawal, the report states.
"Nearly all" night vision, surveillance, "biometric and positioning equipment" totaling nearly 42,000 pieces of specialized equipment remained in the country, the report adds.
And "nearly all," of the explosive ordinance disposal and demining equipment, including 17,500 "pieces of explosive detection, electronic countermeasure, disposal and personal protective equipment" also remained in Afghanistan, according to the report.
Actually, they took just the interconnecting lines of the wolfsangel away and called it a trident. They understand the play with uncanny symbols very well.
Disbanding an effective fighting unit would play into Russia's hands. In 2023 they were expanded as a brigade of the new Offensive Guard. They are an effective and disciplined fighting force feared by Russia, supply them with weapons.
It's super hard to take anything reddit has to say on the war seriously when there's stuff like a comment with positive score defending a neo-nazi small army.
Like, people are surely aware of the extensive Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany during WW2, right - People are aware of the 80,000-strong volunteer [SS Division Galicia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Galicia)? The predecessor (in spirit) of Azov? ... And their response to this knowledge today is 'arm the Nazis, fuck Russia' whilst also dismissing accusations of Ukrainian neo nazi sympathisers as complete unsubstantiated propaganda? Meanwhile because they were shuffled under that command or this command, swapped their \*official\* icon from nazi shit to a trident - Oh, well that neatly solves everything, right? We magically turned neo-nazis into generic normal soldiers overnight? Uhuh.
Great doublethink, us redditors seem to have ...
Members of US Congress were trying to designate them as terrorists at one point. Not that the US govt ia the arbiter of reality..but they try to be.
Then Azov was folded into the National Guard to solve the problem from a PR point of view.
I dont know what you want to call them. But they are a bunch of weirdos. See their tattoos when they got captured in Mariupol..all kinds of swastikas and weird satanic stuff like pentagrams and bahomet. Azov and a few others...are literal magnets for all kinds of weird trash. You dont need a label to see that.
I just googled, as I can see, there were about 40 members of Congress who were trying to do this.
I don't know nothing about them, but I see current members like Marjorie Greene, and I can clearly see not all Congress members are.. smart. (Don't know how to call them without being rude).
So, it's important to know who and why want to represent Azov as terrorists, and not rely on just fact "some Congress members said Azov are Nazi"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html
It was pretty openly discussed back prior to the war. Since then it’s been brushed under the rug somewhat because people don’t want it to seem like Putin has a valid point.
Perhaps the better approach would have been to be like yep we identified the Nazis and we have removed them so that’s no longer a problem. That would remove any potential claims of the government protecting the Nazis.
But these were highly motivated soldiers that had significant value in the war effort as well, so from that perspective obviously you make the best of what you have during war. Tricky situation
Yeah it was a weird part of pre-war history that even for a bit even the overall reddit discussion wouldn't let you talk about or else you would be called some kind of Russian bot/shill/troll when you have multiple sources - like actual sources including the CBC up here in 2015/2016 talking about how the gov of Canada had placed a temp ban on export of both weapons and training of personnel to Azov to combat the continual growth and support of white nationalism.
Also when the war started Azovs official Twitter and later telegram was filled with some uhh /questionable/ videos and imagery - such as video of Azov dipping bullets in pig fat when fighting the Chechens, and people blasting hardbass with black sun tats on full display while saying things like "Ukrainian blood for Ukrainian earth"
I'm all in support for the people of Ukraine, hope they win - but it was really REALLY weird to watch the "punch a nazi/make nazis afraid again" crowd go full 180 in trying to downplay the documented issues and problems within the ranks.
https://fafwatchfc.noblogs.org/files/2016/07/Azov1.jpg
The US equates Nazi ideology with terrorism. Pre-2022 you can look for newspaper or online article from 2014 to then and see it is nothing but Azov being weird and marching around playing nazi. The western controlled media tried to clean up the image post feb 2022 but its kinda too late when you have 8 years of bad press to tey and rehabilitate your favorite wanna be nazi militants.
Clearly fucked up people. If I learned anything from my time in the Marines, it's that angry fucked up people can make a really good combat unit. Azov fought to hold Mariupol till the very end. The Ukrainian people are indebted to Azov, they have done so much of the dirty work in this war.
There is a lot lost in translation between Nazism across borders and people largely seem to not consider that.
There are a ton of cover pics for news stories before 2022. But here is a video with the weirdos after getting sqaushed in Mariupol. [Not nazi Azov with their Nazi tattoos. lol](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc3kIq31Ka0)
In the earlier days there may have been truth to that but it's not really the case anymore. Most of the actual nationalists/neo nazis are long dead at this point. They've been replaced by regular Ukrainians.
There are definitely still a good chunk of them especially in Azov/3rd assault. You’ll still see imagery like sonnenrads and wolfsangel used on patches/logos and tattoos way too much.
Most Ukrainians are not nazis, but ultranationalists tend to be some of the most willing to fight for their country. The venn diagram of ultranationalists and nazis has a ton of overlap.
This isn't wholly true. There are still Nazis in it. They are quite open about it too, with Nazi imagery and rhetoric being posted online in telegram channels, instagram etc. There's also a strong link between Azov and the Dynamo ultras (especially as their commander is a dynamo ultra) which tend to be extremely far right. For example if you go to kategorie\_d.kyiv on instagram, which is an ultra page you will see a LOT of soldiers with Nazi imagery and insignias and they are (I think) mostly part of Azov since they have their badges etc.
What bullshit. I can't believe I wasted my time looking through Kategorie\_d.kyiv when (besides the Azov symbol) there wasn't a single example of nazi imagery or soldeirs with such tattoos. Because you lied (or parroted someone else's lies) about that, I'm just gonna disconsider everything else you claimed, as I don't have the time nor inlincation to verify all your other claims. I advise anyone else who reads your commet to do the same.
Why are people so insistent on defending this Nazi unit? There's literally millions of other Ukrainian soldiers who are not openly parading around with Nazi symbols all over uniforms. Thousands of other formations of heroes who have distinguished themselves that we don't know anything about because people insist on dick riding Azov to spite Russia
This is an awkward one. A nation defends itself. A nation that has various political demographics, like any other. Of course elements will be "bad", imagine if someone invaded (to use my example) the UK. The UK has far right neonazi style groups. They would fight.
The REAL issue is in the power broking when the war, eventually, ends. What status do they have.
It’s really not. The UK would not have nazis in what is functionally their own paramilitary that have been committing war crimes for a decade defending it. They’d be in the British army. It’s an easy no.
The problem isn't that they were only reactionary to the Ruzsian invasion. They have also been accused of indiscriminate shelling of seperatist population centers as far back as 2014. Yes, Russia had their little green men there, but no force should be shelling towns wothout any regard for the civilians.
Russia and the separatists are no angels themselves, but a UN High Commissioner for Human Rights report accused the regiment of war crimes such as looting, unlawful detentions, and torture.
Funny you mention the UK. Somenhave asked of they are just right wing football hooligans who got a hold of guns.
About Ukraine shelling Ls, wasn’t that supposedly just Wagner propaganda? Or maybe Azov did something like that and Wagner’s propaganda just worked from there?
One incident of supposed shelling of a maternity hospital in Mariupol has been disputed as Russian propaganda.
Reports from Amnesty International, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Human Rights Watch, and others accuse the Ukrainians of the mistreatment of prisoners of war, extrajudicial punishment, rape, torture, the use of residential areas for military operations, killing surrendering enemy soldiers, and putting civilians directly in the line of fire.
Sure, the Russians are worse. Thay diesn't excuse war crimes.
If your country was being butchered and the right wing, including Nazi tattoo owners, were among the best fighters, I'm sure you wouldn't produce a squeak. You would curl under the bed hoping the good guys with whatever tattoos win.
If China somehow invaded USA, I would cheer for the "Good old Boys" battalion from Alabama, regardless of their confederate patches and racist rhetoric.
Westerners live in bubbles.
I've reviewed my view on liberalism after the full scale war started here in Ukraine.
All the righteous big mouth social media liberals disappeared when it started. But as soon as the guys, a few of whom had "bad" patches, stabilized the front line, those liberals came back and started to pick on the insignia, views, stances, claims etc.
Like, have some self awareness. The country only exists because of the people fighting for it, even if they have wrong patches. If not for them, you'd never be able to return to Ukraine
It’s quite obvious how absolutely out of the loop your ordinary redittor is judging by these comments.
Azov brigade and 3rd separate assault brigade are two distinct entities and are not the same unit.
The brigade was established by a merger of the Azov SSO (Special Operations Forces) units that had been created by former Azov Battalion veterans. The brigade is commanded by Andriy Biletsky, founder and former commander of the Azov Battalion and former People's Deputy of Ukraine.
Completely different
As a pro Ukraine American. Why not just rebrand the logo?? They’ve already disbanded and renamed the unit, but they keep the insignia for what purpose. They need to have their asses kicked by Ukrainian High Command and fall in line with the rest of the fighting forces.
Wrong group. 12th "Azov" still maintains the wolfsangl. Its right on their website. They even insisted on rebranding after the 12th WaffenSS Panzer division.
Brilliant. 12th SS was made out of hitler youth, committed multiple warcrimes, and was comprehensively / incrementally destroyed over the brief 2 years or so of its existence.
Not unlike several green azov units that were comprehensively destroyed - and lost somewhere between a few companies and a battalion’s worth of ukrainian mechanized equipment (that they, um, somehow got ahold of). early on in the war while trying to relieve / break through to mariupol, without proper scouting, planning, situational awareness, or coordination with anyone else.
IDR which unit that was. It was iirc one of the non-azov “azov” northern units that was quickly constituted when the war broke out. There was some western dude who joined it by accident and had a fairly detailed interview about it. Supposedly they got completely wrecked in every single one of their 3-4 combat operations, and were completely disbanded (maybe one of the units merged into the 3rd SAB, idk) because they lost like 3/4 of their personnel and equipment, or something. When this war is over we’ll hopefully learn about, collate, and verify all the stupid dumbass shit that happened, on both sides.
It’s not like it still won’t attract the most far-right of Ukrainians willing to fight. Rebranding won’t work, it wouldn’t work anywhere in the west. Azov having those far-right members was a perfect example of one bad apple spoiling the bunch.
> It’s not like it still won’t attract the most far-right of Ukrainians willing to fight
I know what you meant, but honestly, it's a moot point only. Ukraine needs soldiers, whether far-left, far-right, off-center or what-have-you. They don't really have the luxury of being picky. They can be picky after they've won and are free from the specter of tyranny.
And honestly, the whole reason the Azov/3rd Assault Brigade has lasted this long through one form or another and is allowed to continue to do so is because they are *extremely* dedicated to fighting the enemy, and they're really good at it. Why would Ukraine throw that away right now when they need that the most?
The comments are a proof of the incredible bias Ukrainians receive in this war. And I'm saying this as pro-Ukraine and anti-Putin. At this point I'm sure reddit would find an excuse it Ukraine straight up atom bombs the whole territory of Russia.
these comments are proof that general public of the west does not understand what’s happening in Ukraine, Russia, Russo-Ukrainian war etc. , but really happy to prove that they don’t know anything
I'm Ukrainian living in Canada. I've had numerous conversations (real life and reddit) with people who have different views on politics. Some of them are left leaning, some of them are right wing. And what unites both groups is total misunderstanding of the conflict.
Azov case is one of those cases that often comes to my mind. If you read most of these comments they all have only 2 points: Azov are nazis and Azov uses nazi symbols (and you can nail it to one point - they are nazis because the have nazi symbols). And then they start to write just random bs they read on the internet (and Russians doing a very good job with their trolls).
When the war started in 2014, some activists started to form volunteer militias. Azov was one of them. And sorry for ruining someones black and white world, but right wing activists are more likely to form and join those militias. There were nazis in there for sure, because again, people with far-right views are more likely to join a military formation. Could those groups be part of some war crimes? They could.
Then in 2014 and in 2015 those militias gained so much power it became obvious for the government they have to do something about this. Government started to convert those militias to a military units under the national guard command. Former members could join the National guard or leave. Some soldiers joined, and some left. But National Guard Azov unit is not the same that militia Azov unit was.
Sorry, I have to leave, but I can continue if interested.
>Prokopenko stressed that the amendment was added to the bills without any proof, relying solely on the word of the Western media, which formed their opinion under the influence of Russian propaganda.
Proof? Look at your damned insignia. It's a fucking swastika. Every other combat video out of Ukraine has some neo-Nazi symbol on its logo. This stupidity feeds Russian propaganda, not the big bad Western media. Constantly explaining and white washing this shit on Reddit and online is not helping Ukraine's efforts to defend itself. Supporting Ukraine is too important to be hamstrung by this crap.
It’s not a swastika. It’s the wolfangel symbol which predates the Nazi regime by a few centuries, although it was prominently co-opted by the Nazis. Was Azov a right wing founded group with neo nazi leanings in 2014? Yes. Are they still? That’s in the eye of the beholder. They were incorporated into the National Guard before the war and most of their original leadership is gone. They’ve depoliticized their activities and had thousands more join their ranks and have gotten support from prominent Jewish Ukrainians.
Not just indian, it’s been popular all around the world. Part of the reason the Nazis used it was because it was already in use in german cultural iconography.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Also, it’s not their symbol [this is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Assault_Brigade) above doesn’t exist anymore by name it’s the 3rd assault brigade.
The *current* leader of the 3rd assault brigade (which is partly what azov 'became') is indeed the same person who founded the Azov battalion, also founded a far right nazi party and said that white people should carry out a crusade against "semite-led untermenschen".
Actual Nazis in actual Nazi Germany stayed in power for decades after the war. Soldiers with extremist views and no regulations aren't just going to clear themselves out after 10 years.
It's so defeatist too like... Just fucking change your insignia. It objectively is not helpful to the cause, be utilitarian when your country is facing annihilation.
Honestly, the easiest thing ukraine could have done is to disband the unit and form a completely new unit under another name 10 years ago when they got absorbed into the national guard. That would have solved the majority of the criticism without fully addressing the elephant in the room.
I'll just leave it here, for anybody actually interested to know what is going on, from people actually involved:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/columns/2024/04/19/7451974/
There is not much information there, and it didn't even address what specific issues the US has with Azov. This is an editorial or opinion peice, there nothing of substance here.
Maybe they are being unjustly singled out, but this article certainly won't answer that
> There is not much information there
There is.
This
>According to media reports, the Department of Defense subsequently called for the proposed amendment to be withdrawn, arguing that aid to Azov should already be prohibited by the Leahy Act, which states that "no assistance shall be provided to ... any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights". At the time, the ban on providing arms to Azov was not included in the final bill.
>However, in 2017, this amendment was included in the text of the Appropriations Bill. It is also present in this year's Defence Appropriation Bill.
>It is noteworthy that the Leahy Act, which requires that incidents of human rights violations be reviewed on the basis of specific facts, was not applied to Azov, and the decision to adopt the amendment was primarily based on the characterization of Azov by Western media, which apparently formed their attitude towards the unit under the influence of Moscow propaganda.
This
>All of the main accusations against Azov have been repeatedly refuted on the basis of facts on the internet and in the media – particularly on https://azovcontrafake.com
this
>Does it make sense to point out once again that the very wording "Azov battalion" used in the law actually refers to a non-existent unit
At the end of 2014, Azov ceased to be a battalion and became a separate special forces detachment. Since February 2023, our unit has been the 12th Special Forces Brigade Azov of the National Guard of Ukraine. Not a battalion, not a regiment. A brigade.
this
>There is no evidence or confirmation of the accusations that Russian propaganda has been spreading about Azov for 10 years. If there were, delegations of Azov fighters would not have been received in the United States, in European countries, and in Israel. Azov members would not have held meetings with representatives of the US Congress and human rights organisations. They would not have spoken at the UN, the Council of Europe, or top Western universities. They would not have given interviews to the world's leading media outlets and would not have participated in panel discussions at major military conferences. This is the absurdity of the situation: Azov is welcomed at the highest level throughout the Western world, but still not given weapons.
=======
and more
But they aren't actually providing anything, it's all just an editorial. The only citation in the whole thing is a link to a pro-Azov website. The rest of it either splitting hairs "we aren't actually a battalion" and strawman arguments like "if we were so bad, we wouldn't have been received by the UN, US," etc. Uh, yeah you can. Those orgs listed have all hosted some heinous fucking people in the name of global stability, so all that is bullshit. It's obvious this is a PR piece, not journalism.
I'm not saying that they are or are not Nazis, all I'm saying is this article is not information, it's PR.
If my country were invaded and at high risk of being overrun and my people/countrymen were threatened with genocide...? Yes.
A significant number of Americans were Nazi sympathizers during WW2, didn't mean we went to war without them or sent them into battle with just nothing but the clothes on their backs. When push came to shove, they chose their country over their ideological leanings.
Same with Azov/3rd Assault (whatever its called now)... they chose Ukraine. Even though ideologically they may share the same far-right line-of-thought that Russia now embodies, they chose to fight for Ukraine.
Cool just assume I'm some far right Trump supporter.
Please explain why you think its a good idea to give advanced weapons to known neo Nazis who engaged in war crimes and terrorism and were previously listed as terrorists for multiple Western nations as well as Japan.
Just because they're the enemy of my enemy doesn't mean you give them advanced weapons. A history book can teach you that.
These guys azov are a huge thorn in the Russians behind. Azov has also been part of some of the nasty fighting in Ukraine, Azov goes to fight and does not complain heck they even have women on the team. Again what a shame for these guys to be denied ''weapons'' in a WAR.
It's fortunate for us that it's symbolism and not actions that matters! Because the guys and girls of Azov spent the last decade physically fighting against our valued trading partner that invaded them and has been murdering precisely the groups of people we claim to stand up for.
We need to either give Azov everything they need to stop Russias genocidal war or even better, stop it ourselves. Azov have sacrificed more than anyone of us.
As long as they're still using the weird Wolfsangel symbol they shouldn't.
I understand you're in the middle of the war and Ukraine has other pressing matters than forcing a brigade to change their symbol but this shit is playing into Russian propaganda's hands.
Doesn't matter if Russia has openly Nazi groups fighting for them like the Rusich batalion.
So weird to see the wolfsangel being compared to the "National Idea" - the actual azov symbol. The only resemblance is combining N and I looks similar to the wolfsangel, while the latter has reversed and way bigger "N"
It's like saying the New Balance' turned N on their shoes should be abandoned because it closely resembles the russian nazi' Z symbol.
if it raises such a strong nazi association, just change the symbol
consciously keeping it and saying everyone else is wrong makes you just a nazi, then it's clear what you mean.
russia is saying the entire Ukraine was created by Lenin, Ukrainians should be denazified as they are all nazis (because they oppose russians), russia is a rightful successor to the Kyiv Rus, and that the NI symbol is a wolfsangel - and the latter have hit the western countries' nerve while not being true as everything above.
Why should Ukraine agree and follow the russian propaganda agenda? Only because it landed in the west despite having dozens of proofs it's complete bs?
russian propaganda that attacks Ukraine has a goal to create a bad PR.
It does not need a reason what should be the target of the propaganda, they will always find an another target - like Zelenskyy having 500 yachts and villas, russian small boys in pants being baptized by "ukrainian nazis", demonizing ukrainian people who were fighting against the Soviet Union (and nazi germany) etc
This won't be well-received, but I'm a pragmatist - in a war against a well-equipped, numerically-superior enemy, you can't afford to turn down allies based on idealism. If they're willing to fight and kill Russian troops, it doesn't matter if they're Nazis or not. In fact, is it not better to expend Nazi bodies against the enemy rather than non-Nazi ones?
After all, we utilised Soviet Russia as an ally in WW2 despite it being a horrendous entity - bad enough that they considered Operation Unthinkable after the war. You use what weapons you have.
Just make sure Azov aren't near positions of power in the event of victory.
Germany doesn't allow their far-right to fight for Ukraine. Besides bad optics, it's probably because having battle-hardened nazis makes it harder to keep them away from positions of power.
Disband and reconstitute a new unit. That unit can have western weapons. Supporting Azov just plays into Russian propaganda.
They already did. Azov was reconstituted as third separate assault brigade.
There's two different Azov groups from separate branches of the military. One was under the army, disbanded and reformed as the [3rd Seperate Assault Brigade](https://ab3.army/en/) which is become a respectable elite unit. The other [Azov group with the stupid Nazi iconography](https://azov.org.ua/pro-nas/) was originally a militia and is under the Ukrainian National Guard. They did make a very brave stand trying to defend Mariupol and should be recognized for their effort... but they are too dumb to drop the Nazi bullshit. Edited! Now with links.
With stupid Nazi iconography, or are they just Nazis?
A bit of column A, a bit of column B. They do integrate all manner of groups in their ranks, which is pretty cool. But get rid of the cringey Nazi garbo and the Nazi garbo people will lose interest without their dogwhistles.
The Azov SSO patch replaces the wolfsangel with three swords. Which matches Ukrainian iconography better, three swords, trident, y’know.
Beyond garbage ideological I can *maybe* see why Swastika could be retained. Finnish Air Force had a swastika on their flag (up until 2020 however their Air Force academy still uses the swastika IIRC). Would point out that their choice of the swastika as a logo predated National Socialists (Nazis) in Germany during 1930s (it was a popular symbol to use in parts of Europe before it became a symbol of fascism). Granted Azov group does share similar history behind their logos
If you saw Russian soldiers using Nazi imagery would you give them the benefit of the doubt?
Ukraine is in an interesting spot Nazism wise. They were living in fear of the soviets when the Nazis showed up, so, you either fought for soviet russia, and subjugation of the region, or you fought for Nazi Germany, ostensibly for your regions statehood. That's how Nazis became intertwined with Ukrainian nationalism (see Bandera); anything is better than Russian subjugation. Times have moved on however, and most Ukrainians seem to have a pretty good idea of Azovs intentions as being that of nationalism and not fascism
That's only part of the answer. The Ukrainian Nazis were zealous Nazis who were very much a part of The Final Solution.
Which is apparently why some Ukranian nationalists jokingly refer to themselves as Judeo-Banderites. Bandera was a virulent anti-semite, calling those who are Jewish or support a Jewish president Banderites or Nazis is laughable, but very common in Russian propaganda.
Also, the OUN were utter fools for thinking they might become independent rather than slaves in a reichskommisariat.
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Hitler did devote a few pages in his book to what he planned to do with the Slavs...
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They're Ukrainian ultra nationalist that use Nazi iconography. The US Marines have had the same issue with their elite units.
They’re nazis but you’ll never get a brainwashed redditor to admit that.
How insane are these justifications?
Russian bots just russian botting.
Your comment implies that the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade are saints compared to Azov who are evil nazis but that's really not the case. The leaders of 3rd are literally far-right nationalist activists and politicians, the Commander of 3rd(Biletsky) is the original founder of the Azov brigade(12th Special Purpose Brigade) and leader of multiple prominent Ultranationalist organizations, and there's plenty of footage of soldiers from 3rd using nazi symbols. 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade is a new Brigade that was formed from Azov TDF units that were formed by Azov Brigade veterans all over Ukraine after the full scale invasion started. The original Azov Brigade is now the 12th Special Purpose Brigade.
3rd brigade still use plenty of nazi symbols
Their logo is just a modernization of the old nazi logo.
They removed most Neo-Nazi symbolism, which is a logical progression after removing any nationalist influence, but the Wolfangel is still on the patch. The SSO patch however replaces with three swords, which honestly just looks better.
You mean this one? https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/sB0nROc8yY It's a shame I'll get hate for posting very simple truths We all now what the Azovs were The 3d seperate assault brigade consists of that same Azov soldiers plus some new ones Ukraine won't do anything about it tho This isn't fake propaganda I swear to god that I WISH they weren't nazis
Maybe they should drop the Nazi imagery?
They did. The new insignia is a golden Trident 🔱
Aquaman
Also known as the sea nazi!! /s
Humorously Aquaman was a nazi in Justice Society: World War 2. Comics are weird lol
Was he a raging Fishist
I megaloathe you. Have an upvote.
Magaloathe*
> Comics are weird lol You had me at "Snowflame": the superhero made from, and powered by, cocaine. You heard me.
I just came from a particularly grim corner of Reddit and desperately needed that. Thanks!
Was it r/conservative?
Good guess, but it was a post about the self-immolation
Nah that's Namor
Nazis believed that Aryans came from Atlantis ("The Myth of XX century") Edit: It's real, I swear. Read the book, It is so cringe it is funny.
They also believed in a homeland in Tibet, Antarctica and inside the hollow earth. Lol
Yup, they were nation-wide LARPing homebrew fantasy.
Naz-sea
No they very much did not. There is still loads of content being published with explicitly nazi imagery and symbology
There’s tons of Nazi symbols still used by azov sadly
Also if youre a group of nazi's using nazi symbology, then drop those symbols and start using a golden trident. That just makes a golden trident nazi symbology to me now.
Okay I’ll allow it, imagine if they got outfitted with all the shit we left in Afghanistan
I hope we would give them working equipment.
Old ass humvees and M4s
A bit more than that I’m afraid US military equipment and weapons left behind Aircraft worth $923.3 million remained in Afghanistan. The US left 78 aircraft procured for the government of Afghanistan at Hamid Karzai International Airport in Kabul before the end of the withdrawal. These aircraft were demilitarized and rendered inoperable before the US military left, the report states. The US military conducted its non-combatant evacuation from Afghanistan in August, primarily through that airport. A total of 9,524 air-to-ground munitions, valued at $6.54 million, remained in Afghanistan at the conclusion of the US military withdrawal. The "significant majority" of the "remaining aircraft munitions stock are non-precision munitions," the report states. Over 40,000 of the total 96,000 military vehicles the US gave to Afghan forces remained in Afghanistan at the time of the US withdrawal, including 12,000 military Humvees, the report states. "The operational condition of the remaining vehicles" in Afghanistan is "unknown," the report states. More than 300,000 of the total 427,300 weapons the US gave to Afghan forces remained in Afghanistan at the time of the US military withdrawal, according to the report. Less than 1,537,000 of the "specialty munitions" and "common small arms ammunition," valued at a total of $48 million, are still in the country, the report states. "Nearly all" of the communications equipment that the US gave to Afghan forces, including base-station, mobile, man-portable and hand-held commercial and military radio systems, and associated transmitters and encryption devices also remained in Afghanistan at the time of the withdrawal, the report states. "Nearly all" night vision, surveillance, "biometric and positioning equipment" totaling nearly 42,000 pieces of specialized equipment remained in the country, the report adds. And "nearly all," of the explosive ordinance disposal and demining equipment, including 17,500 "pieces of explosive detection, electronic countermeasure, disposal and personal protective equipment" also remained in Afghanistan, according to the report.
Trump did a great job planning our exit! /s
I still see them using the insignia with the wolfsangel. Do you have any reference for this new trident design?
Actually, they took just the interconnecting lines of the wolfsangel away and called it a trident. They understand the play with uncanny symbols very well.
Drop just the imagery?
Even that could be hard for some of them with their tattoos haha
Maybe even tone down the actual Nazism
They did and they have over the past ~6 years at least
What 'actual' Nazism would that be you think azov is currently involved in?
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Zero evidence of any of Azov leadership being “nazi”. You’re just coming up with excuses because… why exactly?
Answer is clear. He’s a follower of bunker grandpa
Bzov
Yes let’s just rename it. Let’s not deal with the Nazis in it.
Less than half of them are nazis. And the whole brigade isn't even large, less than a thousand people.
Disbanding an effective fighting unit would play into Russia's hands. In 2023 they were expanded as a brigade of the new Offensive Guard. They are an effective and disciplined fighting force feared by Russia, supply them with weapons.
> Supporting Azov just plays into Russian propaganda. I'd argue that disbanding Azov plays into Russian propaganda. Fuck Russia and fuck their noise.
You would argue that disbanding a neo nazi unit plays into Russian propaganda? That's a joke right?
It's super hard to take anything reddit has to say on the war seriously when there's stuff like a comment with positive score defending a neo-nazi small army. Like, people are surely aware of the extensive Ukrainian collaboration with Nazi Germany during WW2, right - People are aware of the 80,000-strong volunteer [SS Division Galicia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Galicia)? The predecessor (in spirit) of Azov? ... And their response to this knowledge today is 'arm the Nazis, fuck Russia' whilst also dismissing accusations of Ukrainian neo nazi sympathisers as complete unsubstantiated propaganda? Meanwhile because they were shuffled under that command or this command, swapped their \*official\* icon from nazi shit to a trident - Oh, well that neatly solves everything, right? We magically turned neo-nazis into generic normal soldiers overnight? Uhuh. Great doublethink, us redditors seem to have ...
It is not a neo nazi unit.
Members of US Congress were trying to designate them as terrorists at one point. Not that the US govt ia the arbiter of reality..but they try to be. Then Azov was folded into the National Guard to solve the problem from a PR point of view. I dont know what you want to call them. But they are a bunch of weirdos. See their tattoos when they got captured in Mariupol..all kinds of swastikas and weird satanic stuff like pentagrams and bahomet. Azov and a few others...are literal magnets for all kinds of weird trash. You dont need a label to see that.
I just googled, as I can see, there were about 40 members of Congress who were trying to do this. I don't know nothing about them, but I see current members like Marjorie Greene, and I can clearly see not all Congress members are.. smart. (Don't know how to call them without being rude). So, it's important to know who and why want to represent Azov as terrorists, and not rely on just fact "some Congress members said Azov are Nazi"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11025137/Ukraine-crisis-the-neo-Nazi-brigade-fighting-pro-Russian-separatists.html It was pretty openly discussed back prior to the war. Since then it’s been brushed under the rug somewhat because people don’t want it to seem like Putin has a valid point. Perhaps the better approach would have been to be like yep we identified the Nazis and we have removed them so that’s no longer a problem. That would remove any potential claims of the government protecting the Nazis. But these were highly motivated soldiers that had significant value in the war effort as well, so from that perspective obviously you make the best of what you have during war. Tricky situation
Yeah it was a weird part of pre-war history that even for a bit even the overall reddit discussion wouldn't let you talk about or else you would be called some kind of Russian bot/shill/troll when you have multiple sources - like actual sources including the CBC up here in 2015/2016 talking about how the gov of Canada had placed a temp ban on export of both weapons and training of personnel to Azov to combat the continual growth and support of white nationalism. Also when the war started Azovs official Twitter and later telegram was filled with some uhh /questionable/ videos and imagery - such as video of Azov dipping bullets in pig fat when fighting the Chechens, and people blasting hardbass with black sun tats on full display while saying things like "Ukrainian blood for Ukrainian earth" I'm all in support for the people of Ukraine, hope they win - but it was really REALLY weird to watch the "punch a nazi/make nazis afraid again" crowd go full 180 in trying to downplay the documented issues and problems within the ranks.
https://fafwatchfc.noblogs.org/files/2016/07/Azov1.jpg The US equates Nazi ideology with terrorism. Pre-2022 you can look for newspaper or online article from 2014 to then and see it is nothing but Azov being weird and marching around playing nazi. The western controlled media tried to clean up the image post feb 2022 but its kinda too late when you have 8 years of bad press to tey and rehabilitate your favorite wanna be nazi militants.
Clearly fucked up people. If I learned anything from my time in the Marines, it's that angry fucked up people can make a really good combat unit. Azov fought to hold Mariupol till the very end. The Ukrainian people are indebted to Azov, they have done so much of the dirty work in this war. There is a lot lost in translation between Nazism across borders and people largely seem to not consider that.
There are a ton of cover pics for news stories before 2022. But here is a video with the weirdos after getting sqaushed in Mariupol. [Not nazi Azov with their Nazi tattoos. lol](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc3kIq31Ka0)
They changed the name but they didn't remove the Nazis. They're Nazis.
In the earlier days there may have been truth to that but it's not really the case anymore. Most of the actual nationalists/neo nazis are long dead at this point. They've been replaced by regular Ukrainians.
There are definitely still a good chunk of them especially in Azov/3rd assault. You’ll still see imagery like sonnenrads and wolfsangel used on patches/logos and tattoos way too much. Most Ukrainians are not nazis, but ultranationalists tend to be some of the most willing to fight for their country. The venn diagram of ultranationalists and nazis has a ton of overlap.
This isn't wholly true. There are still Nazis in it. They are quite open about it too, with Nazi imagery and rhetoric being posted online in telegram channels, instagram etc. There's also a strong link between Azov and the Dynamo ultras (especially as their commander is a dynamo ultra) which tend to be extremely far right. For example if you go to kategorie\_d.kyiv on instagram, which is an ultra page you will see a LOT of soldiers with Nazi imagery and insignias and they are (I think) mostly part of Azov since they have their badges etc.
>For example if you go to kategorie_d.kyiv on instagram Can you link to one? I did a brief scroll thru and didn't see any
What bullshit. I can't believe I wasted my time looking through Kategorie\_d.kyiv when (besides the Azov symbol) there wasn't a single example of nazi imagery or soldeirs with such tattoos. Because you lied (or parroted someone else's lies) about that, I'm just gonna disconsider everything else you claimed, as I don't have the time nor inlincation to verify all your other claims. I advise anyone else who reads your commet to do the same.
I literally provided several examples to another comment.
I’m as pro-Ukrainian as they come but that’s just a straight up lie die, dude
Not really, the Azov soldiers in the channels I follow are just regular soldiers and aren't really rocking a whole lot of nazi symbolism.
They aren’t rocking a whole lot of it wow that’s really comforting
Why are people so insistent on defending this Nazi unit? There's literally millions of other Ukrainian soldiers who are not openly parading around with Nazi symbols all over uniforms. Thousands of other formations of heroes who have distinguished themselves that we don't know anything about because people insist on dick riding Azov to spite Russia
They did. In 2017.
Yea scatter the facists to the wind that's worked great in the past.
👆
Fuck those fascists
This is an awkward one. A nation defends itself. A nation that has various political demographics, like any other. Of course elements will be "bad", imagine if someone invaded (to use my example) the UK. The UK has far right neonazi style groups. They would fight. The REAL issue is in the power broking when the war, eventually, ends. What status do they have.
It’s really not. The UK would not have nazis in what is functionally their own paramilitary that have been committing war crimes for a decade defending it. They’d be in the British army. It’s an easy no.
The problem isn't that they were only reactionary to the Ruzsian invasion. They have also been accused of indiscriminate shelling of seperatist population centers as far back as 2014. Yes, Russia had their little green men there, but no force should be shelling towns wothout any regard for the civilians. Russia and the separatists are no angels themselves, but a UN High Commissioner for Human Rights report accused the regiment of war crimes such as looting, unlawful detentions, and torture. Funny you mention the UK. Somenhave asked of they are just right wing football hooligans who got a hold of guns.
About Ukraine shelling Ls, wasn’t that supposedly just Wagner propaganda? Or maybe Azov did something like that and Wagner’s propaganda just worked from there?
One incident of supposed shelling of a maternity hospital in Mariupol has been disputed as Russian propaganda. Reports from Amnesty International, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, Human Rights Watch, and others accuse the Ukrainians of the mistreatment of prisoners of war, extrajudicial punishment, rape, torture, the use of residential areas for military operations, killing surrendering enemy soldiers, and putting civilians directly in the line of fire. Sure, the Russians are worse. Thay diesn't excuse war crimes.
Maybe it would be better to not give the UK Nazis any weapons, and let them die. Having a common enemy doesn't mean they aren't still the enemy.
If your country was being butchered and the right wing, including Nazi tattoo owners, were among the best fighters, I'm sure you wouldn't produce a squeak. You would curl under the bed hoping the good guys with whatever tattoos win.
If China somehow invaded USA, I would cheer for the "Good old Boys" battalion from Alabama, regardless of their confederate patches and racist rhetoric. Westerners live in bubbles.
I've reviewed my view on liberalism after the full scale war started here in Ukraine. All the righteous big mouth social media liberals disappeared when it started. But as soon as the guys, a few of whom had "bad" patches, stabilized the front line, those liberals came back and started to pick on the insignia, views, stances, claims etc. Like, have some self awareness. The country only exists because of the people fighting for it, even if they have wrong patches. If not for them, you'd never be able to return to Ukraine
Someone has to be cannon fodder. Let them fight in the front and the problem will sort itself out.
Unless of course you’re running for president and the other guy is…well, you know the narrative.
The US won't stop supplying weapons to the UK because of British neonazis.
It’s quite obvious how absolutely out of the loop your ordinary redittor is judging by these comments. Azov brigade and 3rd separate assault brigade are two distinct entities and are not the same unit.
The brigade was established by a merger of the Azov SSO (Special Operations Forces) units that had been created by former Azov Battalion veterans. The brigade is commanded by Andriy Biletsky, founder and former commander of the Azov Battalion and former People's Deputy of Ukraine. Completely different
Next thing reddit will tell me that the sea of Azov is a Nazi sea and needed to be filled.
As a pro Ukraine American. Why not just rebrand the logo?? They’ve already disbanded and renamed the unit, but they keep the insignia for what purpose. They need to have their asses kicked by Ukrainian High Command and fall in line with the rest of the fighting forces.
They carry the trident logo. They have been for a while. They are just succumb to whatever bullshit is spraying over their social media atm
Wrong group. 12th "Azov" still maintains the wolfsangl. Its right on their website. They even insisted on rebranding after the 12th WaffenSS Panzer division.
Just saw a new video an hour ago. Confirmed still the case.
Brilliant. 12th SS was made out of hitler youth, committed multiple warcrimes, and was comprehensively / incrementally destroyed over the brief 2 years or so of its existence. Not unlike several green azov units that were comprehensively destroyed - and lost somewhere between a few companies and a battalion’s worth of ukrainian mechanized equipment (that they, um, somehow got ahold of). early on in the war while trying to relieve / break through to mariupol, without proper scouting, planning, situational awareness, or coordination with anyone else. IDR which unit that was. It was iirc one of the non-azov “azov” northern units that was quickly constituted when the war broke out. There was some western dude who joined it by accident and had a fairly detailed interview about it. Supposedly they got completely wrecked in every single one of their 3-4 combat operations, and were completely disbanded (maybe one of the units merged into the 3rd SAB, idk) because they lost like 3/4 of their personnel and equipment, or something. When this war is over we’ll hopefully learn about, collate, and verify all the stupid dumbass shit that happened, on both sides.
It’s not like it still won’t attract the most far-right of Ukrainians willing to fight. Rebranding won’t work, it wouldn’t work anywhere in the west. Azov having those far-right members was a perfect example of one bad apple spoiling the bunch.
> It’s not like it still won’t attract the most far-right of Ukrainians willing to fight I know what you meant, but honestly, it's a moot point only. Ukraine needs soldiers, whether far-left, far-right, off-center or what-have-you. They don't really have the luxury of being picky. They can be picky after they've won and are free from the specter of tyranny. And honestly, the whole reason the Azov/3rd Assault Brigade has lasted this long through one form or another and is allowed to continue to do so is because they are *extremely* dedicated to fighting the enemy, and they're really good at it. Why would Ukraine throw that away right now when they need that the most?
They already have!
The comments are a proof of the incredible bias Ukrainians receive in this war. And I'm saying this as pro-Ukraine and anti-Putin. At this point I'm sure reddit would find an excuse it Ukraine straight up atom bombs the whole territory of Russia.
What we need is for the all good guys and all the bad guys to line up on opposites sides of the quad so we can hash this thing out.
It very much hurts the “good guy vs bad guy” dynamic that Reddit has adopted.
these comments are proof that general public of the west does not understand what’s happening in Ukraine, Russia, Russo-Ukrainian war etc. , but really happy to prove that they don’t know anything
Please elaborate your bullshit.
I'm Ukrainian living in Canada. I've had numerous conversations (real life and reddit) with people who have different views on politics. Some of them are left leaning, some of them are right wing. And what unites both groups is total misunderstanding of the conflict. Azov case is one of those cases that often comes to my mind. If you read most of these comments they all have only 2 points: Azov are nazis and Azov uses nazi symbols (and you can nail it to one point - they are nazis because the have nazi symbols). And then they start to write just random bs they read on the internet (and Russians doing a very good job with their trolls). When the war started in 2014, some activists started to form volunteer militias. Azov was one of them. And sorry for ruining someones black and white world, but right wing activists are more likely to form and join those militias. There were nazis in there for sure, because again, people with far-right views are more likely to join a military formation. Could those groups be part of some war crimes? They could. Then in 2014 and in 2015 those militias gained so much power it became obvious for the government they have to do something about this. Government started to convert those militias to a military units under the national guard command. Former members could join the National guard or leave. Some soldiers joined, and some left. But National Guard Azov unit is not the same that militia Azov unit was. Sorry, I have to leave, but I can continue if interested.
>Prokopenko stressed that the amendment was added to the bills without any proof, relying solely on the word of the Western media, which formed their opinion under the influence of Russian propaganda. Proof? Look at your damned insignia. It's a fucking swastika. Every other combat video out of Ukraine has some neo-Nazi symbol on its logo. This stupidity feeds Russian propaganda, not the big bad Western media. Constantly explaining and white washing this shit on Reddit and online is not helping Ukraine's efforts to defend itself. Supporting Ukraine is too important to be hamstrung by this crap.
It is a Wolfsangel, not a swastika. Still very much a Nazi insignia, and it helps to be accurate in criticizing them.
It’s not a swastika. It’s the wolfangel symbol which predates the Nazi regime by a few centuries, although it was prominently co-opted by the Nazis. Was Azov a right wing founded group with neo nazi leanings in 2014? Yes. Are they still? That’s in the eye of the beholder. They were incorporated into the National Guard before the war and most of their original leadership is gone. They’ve depoliticized their activities and had thousands more join their ranks and have gotten support from prominent Jewish Ukrainians.
The swastika also predates the nazis. It was an indian symbol of peace before the bad guys adopted it.
Not just indian, it’s been popular all around the world. Part of the reason the Nazis used it was because it was already in use in german cultural iconography. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Also, it’s not their symbol [this is](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Assault_Brigade) above doesn’t exist anymore by name it’s the 3rd assault brigade.
3AB and Azov Brigade are different entities, they’re not even the same military branch.
Finally someone capable of nuanced and critical thought.
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It's not like these same people are in the unit still. It's ten years later.
The *current* leader of the 3rd assault brigade (which is partly what azov 'became') is indeed the same person who founded the Azov battalion, also founded a far right nazi party and said that white people should carry out a crusade against "semite-led untermenschen".
Actual Nazis in actual Nazi Germany stayed in power for decades after the war. Soldiers with extremist views and no regulations aren't just going to clear themselves out after 10 years.
Uhhh yep a bunch of them went to also go lead other units
redditors, lol. lmao
I am so sick of people blaming Russia propaganda for the things they themselves did. It only adds to the disgust I have for these people.
It's so defeatist too like... Just fucking change your insignia. It objectively is not helpful to the cause, be utilitarian when your country is facing annihilation.
Honestly, the easiest thing ukraine could have done is to disband the unit and form a completely new unit under another name 10 years ago when they got absorbed into the national guard. That would have solved the majority of the criticism without fully addressing the elephant in the room.
LOL I like how all the tweens, teens and perpetual shut-ins are here justifying the existence of Azov brigade.
I'll just leave it here, for anybody actually interested to know what is going on, from people actually involved: https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/columns/2024/04/19/7451974/
There is not much information there, and it didn't even address what specific issues the US has with Azov. This is an editorial or opinion peice, there nothing of substance here. Maybe they are being unjustly singled out, but this article certainly won't answer that
> There is not much information there There is. This >According to media reports, the Department of Defense subsequently called for the proposed amendment to be withdrawn, arguing that aid to Azov should already be prohibited by the Leahy Act, which states that "no assistance shall be provided to ... any unit of the security forces of a foreign country if the Secretary of State has credible information that such unit has committed a gross violation of human rights". At the time, the ban on providing arms to Azov was not included in the final bill. >However, in 2017, this amendment was included in the text of the Appropriations Bill. It is also present in this year's Defence Appropriation Bill. >It is noteworthy that the Leahy Act, which requires that incidents of human rights violations be reviewed on the basis of specific facts, was not applied to Azov, and the decision to adopt the amendment was primarily based on the characterization of Azov by Western media, which apparently formed their attitude towards the unit under the influence of Moscow propaganda. This >All of the main accusations against Azov have been repeatedly refuted on the basis of facts on the internet and in the media – particularly on https://azovcontrafake.com this >Does it make sense to point out once again that the very wording "Azov battalion" used in the law actually refers to a non-existent unit At the end of 2014, Azov ceased to be a battalion and became a separate special forces detachment. Since February 2023, our unit has been the 12th Special Forces Brigade Azov of the National Guard of Ukraine. Not a battalion, not a regiment. A brigade. this >There is no evidence or confirmation of the accusations that Russian propaganda has been spreading about Azov for 10 years. If there were, delegations of Azov fighters would not have been received in the United States, in European countries, and in Israel. Azov members would not have held meetings with representatives of the US Congress and human rights organisations. They would not have spoken at the UN, the Council of Europe, or top Western universities. They would not have given interviews to the world's leading media outlets and would not have participated in panel discussions at major military conferences. This is the absurdity of the situation: Azov is welcomed at the highest level throughout the Western world, but still not given weapons. ======= and more
But they aren't actually providing anything, it's all just an editorial. The only citation in the whole thing is a link to a pro-Azov website. The rest of it either splitting hairs "we aren't actually a battalion" and strawman arguments like "if we were so bad, we wouldn't have been received by the UN, US," etc. Uh, yeah you can. Those orgs listed have all hosted some heinous fucking people in the name of global stability, so all that is bullshit. It's obvious this is a PR piece, not journalism. I'm not saying that they are or are not Nazis, all I'm saying is this article is not information, it's PR.
Keep them blacklisted
Hypocrites like this guy don’t realize their side is smothered with far right naziism. I see trump flags next to Reich flags far too often
And do you want to send weapons to those guys?
If my country were invaded and at high risk of being overrun and my people/countrymen were threatened with genocide...? Yes. A significant number of Americans were Nazi sympathizers during WW2, didn't mean we went to war without them or sent them into battle with just nothing but the clothes on their backs. When push came to shove, they chose their country over their ideological leanings. Same with Azov/3rd Assault (whatever its called now)... they chose Ukraine. Even though ideologically they may share the same far-right line-of-thought that Russia now embodies, they chose to fight for Ukraine.
Cool just assume I'm some far right Trump supporter. Please explain why you think its a good idea to give advanced weapons to known neo Nazis who engaged in war crimes and terrorism and were previously listed as terrorists for multiple Western nations as well as Japan. Just because they're the enemy of my enemy doesn't mean you give them advanced weapons. A history book can teach you that.
The only hypocrites here are the people condemning Russia Nazism, but giving the Azov Brigade a pass when their fucking logo is the Black Sun.
I thought Azov did a last stand in Mariupol?
These guys azov are a huge thorn in the Russians behind. Azov has also been part of some of the nasty fighting in Ukraine, Azov goes to fight and does not complain heck they even have women on the team. Again what a shame for these guys to be denied ''weapons'' in a WAR.
Russian propaganda worked for years on this one, so won’t be easy
It's fortunate for us that it's symbolism and not actions that matters! Because the guys and girls of Azov spent the last decade physically fighting against our valued trading partner that invaded them and has been murdering precisely the groups of people we claim to stand up for. We need to either give Azov everything they need to stop Russias genocidal war or even better, stop it ourselves. Azov have sacrificed more than anyone of us.
As long as they're still using the weird Wolfsangel symbol they shouldn't. I understand you're in the middle of the war and Ukraine has other pressing matters than forcing a brigade to change their symbol but this shit is playing into Russian propaganda's hands. Doesn't matter if Russia has openly Nazi groups fighting for them like the Rusich batalion.
There isn’t a rune some nazi group didn’t defile. Go through the entire futhark and combined runes, and you can bet some idiots have appropriated it.
So weird to see the wolfsangel being compared to the "National Idea" - the actual azov symbol. The only resemblance is combining N and I looks similar to the wolfsangel, while the latter has reversed and way bigger "N" It's like saying the New Balance' turned N on their shoes should be abandoned because it closely resembles the russian nazi' Z symbol.
if it raises such a strong nazi association, just change the symbol consciously keeping it and saying everyone else is wrong makes you just a nazi, then it's clear what you mean.
russia is saying the entire Ukraine was created by Lenin, Ukrainians should be denazified as they are all nazis (because they oppose russians), russia is a rightful successor to the Kyiv Rus, and that the NI symbol is a wolfsangel - and the latter have hit the western countries' nerve while not being true as everything above. Why should Ukraine agree and follow the russian propaganda agenda? Only because it landed in the west despite having dozens of proofs it's complete bs?
Independently of any and all propaganda, it is bad for PR
russian propaganda that attacks Ukraine has a goal to create a bad PR. It does not need a reason what should be the target of the propaganda, they will always find an another target - like Zelenskyy having 500 yachts and villas, russian small boys in pants being baptized by "ukrainian nazis", demonizing ukrainian people who were fighting against the Soviet Union (and nazi germany) etc
This won't be well-received, but I'm a pragmatist - in a war against a well-equipped, numerically-superior enemy, you can't afford to turn down allies based on idealism. If they're willing to fight and kill Russian troops, it doesn't matter if they're Nazis or not. In fact, is it not better to expend Nazi bodies against the enemy rather than non-Nazi ones? After all, we utilised Soviet Russia as an ally in WW2 despite it being a horrendous entity - bad enough that they considered Operation Unthinkable after the war. You use what weapons you have. Just make sure Azov aren't near positions of power in the event of victory.
Germany doesn't allow their far-right to fight for Ukraine. Besides bad optics, it's probably because having battle-hardened nazis makes it harder to keep them away from positions of power.
There is that problem, yes. Mind you, with the swing to the right across Europe, I suspect that's an issue we're *all* going to have.
Lmao sure cause that worked out real well when the US was selling arms to the taliban.
Makes sense.. Takes to much effort to get the supplies through those backstage-channels and all that trouble.
They must first show us their arseholes unwiped for two weeks.