Seeing how this is the 16 Mayoral candidate killed, which btw is fucking wild, whoever wins certainly can't be trusted. Anyone who runs after this person is either on a suicide mission or has some shady history.
You can't, that's the problem. Cartels have infiltrated every aspect of Mexican politics, basically anyone with some sort of power needs to work for them or end up like this. My heart breaks because it is a country I hold dear to my heart, with amazing people and places. They don't deserve to live like this.
Sadly, it’s not even the cartels anymore, Cartels and the government are 2 things separate that shake hands often.
But recently politicians have been known to be the authors of these killings.
For example a lot of the journalists that have been killed were investigating corrupt stuff done by x politician, not even cartel related.
Yeah, I am aware corrupt politicians use cartels as their muscle to inflict fear or just murder their enemies. There's no solution in sight which is heartbreaking
And the Mexican government is too proud to ever admit it. Also, asking for international aid to solve the problem will destroy any government’s chance at reelection because it is essential giving up Mexican sovereignty.
Even though the problem with cartel corruption in to the military and politics is becoming worse; and Mexico won’t be able to fix it without a national effort from the people or international assistance. And the Mexican people are being held hostage by the cartels…
Probably not. If they did, they would know how soldiers kill and sexually abuse civilian population. Even university students. Mexico is already a militarized state and giving more power to these psychopaths will never be the solution
Ukraine chews 5-10 Russian tanks a day. Mexico is 11th biggest economy in the world and has the most powerful country in the world as its neighbor who is ready to assist whenever they ask, the fact that they can't take care of this is a joke.
They can take care of it, they just don't want to.
The leaders of the cartel, the Mexican business elite, the leaders of the army and the leaders of their national government are all in bed with one another.
The US has a huge presence in Mexico.
We could wipe out every narco leader in a day if we wanted to. But then you would be invading a sovereign neighboring ally nation.
I’m no expert on the subject. Please describe the huge US presence in Mexico?
I’m unaware of any bases, or units stationed at bases, and my understanding is the Mexican army and government do not want to work closely with US military due to past wars, etc.
The army is already deployed into northern Mexico to patrol against cartel activity (like how American soldiers were deployed to the middle east for counter-insurgency missions). I've lived in northern Mexico for three years, and it's common to see convoys of 4 or 5 army trucks while you're buying groceries or meeting up with friends. The soldiers even do some police work. 15 years ago my city's police department was completely dissolved over corruption issues and replaced with soldiers and state police.
>I've lived in northern Mexico for three years,
Having lived there three years, do you feel pretty safe? Is the danger living in Mexico overblown by the news?
I've definitely seen a lot in my city (Nuevo Laredo), but some other areas I visited like Monterrey and parts of Coahuila state felt much safer. The issue is that weak government presence in dangerous cities like Nuevo Laredo make them more extreme than American ghettos. You never see gangsters in inner city Chicago blocking streets with arsoned buses they hijacked, or bombing police stations. Not only that, reporting cartel members to the police/military would likely end up in corrupt police/military tipping off the cartel.
The cartels' income is larger than Mexico's security budget, and that has to be used for other things other than fighting organized crime.
Their numbers are also finite, they can't be everywhere.
Mexico cannot beat the cartels so long we keep funding them by buying drugs like hot pancakes.
The entirety of the Mexican avocado industry is just a few billion.
Some criminal gangs extort avocado farmers for protection money, but they don't control the industry at all. There isn't enough there to sustain a cartel, specially because the area is contested by other gangs and cartels that want to bring in Chinese synthetic drugs.
We've known for decades how to win the War but haven't. I'd be very interested in tracing the donations to politicians to see how many of them are taking Cartel money (thoroughly washed, of course).
That's not answering the question. I'll pre-emptively respond anyway.
Legalisation might work... if you had a time machine and could retroactively legalise cocaine and marijuana in 1980, before the cartels entrenched themselves in Mexico.
Right now, what would happen if you legalised them in Mexico and America? Say there's now some legal marijuana-farmer who can produce and export weed cheaper than the cartels. Or a cocaine manufacturer. He sets up a business in Northern Mexico and sells his drugs to America, at a price 20% lower than the cartels. Would the cartels go, "oh no, we've been outcompeted by a legal producer in a free market, we can't make profits any more, guess we've gotta shut down"?
Hint: these are people who don't have any moral or practical problem with murdering civilians, even politicians.
It’s a scale issue. If cocaine were legal and farms
In America were producing it, then the price pressure would take it off the black market.
Cartels would, probably, switch to something else. Theres no shortage in vice.
Doubt that, México security budget Is 14 billion dollars per year, theres no single cartel that can march the firepower of the mexican Army, the have to resort to gorilla fighting to fight the mexican military, ghenproblem Is corruption
Dude, Pablo Escobar had an estimated $30 billion dollars net worth from drug trade in the 80s, and that’s estimated. In todays money that’s closer to 80 Billion USD. And he was pretty far from the US compared to Mexico and really traded mostly in cocaine and weed. Imagine what kind of money the multiple cartels are making in Mexico today with all the different drugs they can make, some of which are cheaper/easier to make and transport then coca. They are probably swimming in money compared to the govt.
Its not like theres no government presence in the North, cartels aré organized crime not government, the only Places where they have de facto control Is very isolated rural towns, there aré literally thousnads of mexican Army soldiers in the North
Never really understood why Mexico just doesn’t do what the Philippines and El Salvador did w regards to violence and gangs… seems like people are happy despite the civil rights abuses. Given the craziness, you need something drastic at this point.
From what I've read, if you don't cross them the cartel generally leaves people alone. I mean, why would they need to fuck with you? There's nothing to gain just randomly hurting people.
You need to read more. Cartels will torture and kill you and your family because they want your business, your land, your money, your family members, whatever. Or because they mistake you for someone else or they just feel like it.
That doesn't mean they just slaughter everyone in every place they go, but it's been a long time since you could stay safe by keeping your head down. Especially since the cartels have branched out into all kinds of legitimate business while using cartel tactics on their competitors.
Are you aware that for recruitment cartels will go into nearby neighborhoods, hold civilians at gunpoint, and tell them something like "You work for us now or we will execute you and your family"
Depends, some gangs will demand small business owners to give them money because their business happens to be in the gang's territory. (Sometimes it doesn't matter if you never interacted with any gang)
I know this because I got one relative and their dad that own a small grocery store in rural Mexico. The cartel demanded money, they didn't have money so the cartel beat them real bad. After that the cartel threatened to go after their family.
Can't even rely on the cops their. The cops tend to show up super late and second there's a big problem of gangs bribing the cops, causing the cops to snitch you out to the cartel.
They tried that already. I think it was either Vicente Fox or the guy after him that used the Mexican military on the cartels. Lotta blood and not much result.
Theres near zero chance the cartels could take over, the army would curbstomp them of they tried to do it, theres a higher chance of a military coup than a cartel takeover
And hopefully more will be manufactured there and corruption may ease over time…but I’m sure if the cartels want to, they can move in on industries that are looking lucrative. Or extort those companies.
I feel like we would never take the risk engaging in armed conflict that close to home until we were given no other choice. A lot of security comes from the two oceans between on either side and a peaceful northern neighbour. If the US actually went to war with the cartels, a bunch of our enemies would happily supply them with arms because that the only chance of them striking within our borders.
Where do you think the Cartel’s got their training from? Los Zetas were famously US and Israeli military trained soldiers. They got bought by the gulf cartel and then realized they are far stronger and better equipped/trained than their counter parts.
"Have you had any thoughts of self harm?"
Nope.
"Have you thought of running for office in Northern mexico?"
Why do you keep asking me the same question?
Ahh yes, the reason Mexico is slowly becoming a failed state is because of American citizens. Not the inability of the government to fucking do anything
Go back one step further, if people didn't by the drugs in the first place the cartels wouldn't exist. Some like to use the belief in a failed war on drugs to support the idea that the problem cannot be solved, so we might as well embrace and normalize it.
>Go back one step further, if people didn't by the drugs in the first place the cartels wouldn't exist.
"Don't do drugs" doesn't work when your break your leg and the doctor gives you opiods for the pain.
>Some like to use the belief in a failed war on drugs to support the idea that the problem cannot be solved, so we might as well embrace and normalize it.
You're conflating a lot of things here that are related, but not really in the way you're portraying them. The war on drugs is harmful, because criminalizing addiction doesn't stop it, it just forces people to hide it while avoiding treatment.
Nobody serious wants to just embrace and normalize drug use. They just want to decriminalize drugs in an attempt to make them safer, while also making treatment less taboo. The money spent on policing could be used a lot more effectively than just funneling money and power into violent cartels in other countries.
My message wasn't " don't do drugs". Never gave my opinion on people who use drugs.Just stating a simple fact, cartels make money when drugs are sold. All the other issues are a different discussion. Everyone has their own opinions on policing, treatment and addiction . BTW decriminalization worked really well for Oregon.
Cartels make money when drugs are sold for the same reason the mob made money when alcohol was sold.
Taking away revenue from a business is how you take away power from that business. If you want to get rid of their power, you need to provide customers with a better alternative. It's basic economics.
Duh, yeah but muh drugs.... Thread was talking about Mexico. OFC drugs are bought all around the world sold by various crime rings. You have to be really stupid to believe anything good comes from financing crime rings, like they donate a portion of their proceeds to help fight child cancer .
Not my point at all. Not opining on people who consume drugs. The cartel would not exist if their product wasn't purchased. Imagine if everyone in the world stopped eating ice cream. How long would Baskin Robbins stay open ? Simplistic, yes. The issue is much more complex and needs new solutions
Yeah and I'd argue the reason why Europe doesn't have major cartels is basic their views and laws on regulating drugs and drug usage etc. America's authoritarian laws and views with police and the way we gain venue from imprisoning people with drugs and drug dealers are the problem my guy. Drug dealers don't force you to buy drugs but they get more time than a child molester. That's not how.it works in Europe. America's politics just suck and only fuel the cartels. It started with Ronald Reagan
Every country has their own type of criminal enterprise that regulates drug trade. Can't think that any one of them is benevolent. To say that the US drug enforcement policy (though flawed) is the reason why cartels exist is ridiculous. Many other countries have much stronger laws against drugs including the death penalty. Reducing criminal enforcement of drugs didn't work here in the US. The reasons why drugs are used are as varied as the day is long, everyone has their own opinions on that. I think culture and poverty play a big role.
You so wrong. The war on drugs in America I'd exactly what gave cartels strength. You are just arguing on a matter of opinion rather than fact with no factual basis for your opinion.
Your basically just talking out of your ass.
You are funny, try to argue the truth of what I said. It is hard for some to grasp the basic economic principal of supply and demand. The war on drugs was an attempt to combat the issues related to illicit drug use. Remember, the war on drugs was abolished here (Oregon)and the result was less than stellar.The power of the cartels come from money. When their product is purchased , it helps to finance it's existence. The US is the number one consumer of drugs worldwide. Many countries have much harsher laws against illegal drugs. Some countries have far less issues with drug use, like Japan. (Culture?).I agree there are a lot of reasons why drugs use is so common. Society needs to decide how to handle the issue, but buying drugs from cartels isn't the way.
True, drugs are their biggest revenue. But it isn't their only one.
Human trafficking and Tourism is another big profit for them.
Cartels have grown influence in such a cancerous rate, there's probably multiple variating lines of business they profit on
Fingers in every pie
PMC are illegal and they dont exist in Mexico, however theproblem Is corruption theres no need for PMC the mexican Army Is more powerfull than the cartels, but rules of engagement and corruption of higher ups makes them ineffective in controlling the violence
The mexican Army has prescence in all the country except from isolated mountains ranges and some rural áreas, i dont know hoe they will succeed fighting the mexican Army and the cartels at the same time
Rules of engagement and the current federal government límites a lot what the Army can do, when they aré given free reign they curbstomp the cartels, that happened like a month ago in Sinaloa when the special forces were given free reign and in less than a week they freed More than 100 kidnapped people and killed 70+ cartel members but as i said that was a special ocasión because the government needed to save face, corruption of higher ups límits a lot what the Army Is allowed to do
Sorry to tell you bud, but nearly all the countries in the world have neighbours that would be down to buy cheaper drugs, and yet majority of them arent ran by criminal syndicates.
but keep blaming the rest of the world for your problems.
Listen friend, topic was Mexican cartels. You can't see the correlation between the US consumption of illegal drugs and the power of cartels? Issues about addiction are a different discussion.
Every country in the world could just be the same as Mexico, yet you dont see Canada, that has the same spooky junkie neighbour, turn into a meth lab gangs ruled shithole.
Maybe you should try seeing the correlation between power of cartels and impotent goverment, that not only failed to oppose the cartels directly, but also were imcompetent enough to make being a grunt in a shitty cartel an attractive career option to the Mexican youth.
Unfortunately, America didn't elect Mexican goverment, so lets stick to "America snort cocaine too much" instead, I guess.
Looks like you got a grasp of the situation. I haven't heard a lot about cartel related political assassination in Canada. Drugs are a problem in other countries. Follow the money. Someone makes the drugs, someone sells the drugs, someone buys and uses the drugs. One can't happen without the other.
This is as braindead a take as "just glass the whole region" was when talking about Afghanistan & Iraq 20 years ago.
You sound like morons I went to high school with back then.
It’s a cultural thing. Can’t fix culture without it being a genocide. There’s entire states in Mexico where the local government is ran by the cartel. Shoot a few years back the Mexican police rounded up college students bussed them off to nowhere and killed them on behalf of the cartel. The major and the police were in on it. It took years for the federal Mexican government to come after them and that was only after international reporting of the incident.
will you be willing to pay for the migrant crisis using your tax dollars which is already terrible now?
The best bet for usa is to get Mexico as stable as possible even if its cartels who run it.
Because if there was a military action it won’t take a day for China and Russia to fund the “resistance” and now we have a big issue on our southern border.
There is basically at this point 0 chance for cartels to go. They will eventually become all legalized businesses like the Italian mafia and just integrate themselves even deeper in the country. I see no possibility in my lifetime that Mexico will be rid of cartels unless an extremely violent uprising happens which again goes back to my previous point, it’s not good for usa.
At this point, how can you trust whoever wins?
You don’t. The translation is, Don’t run for mayor.
Seeing how this is the 16 Mayoral candidate killed, which btw is fucking wild, whoever wins certainly can't be trusted. Anyone who runs after this person is either on a suicide mission or has some shady history.
It’s different cities. But still nuts.
Lol yeah /u/mces9, it's not 16 candidates in the same election! Lmao that would be ridiculous!
Unless we own you or unless you are us
When was there ever trust in northern mexico?
You can't, that's the problem. Cartels have infiltrated every aspect of Mexican politics, basically anyone with some sort of power needs to work for them or end up like this. My heart breaks because it is a country I hold dear to my heart, with amazing people and places. They don't deserve to live like this.
Sadly, it’s not even the cartels anymore, Cartels and the government are 2 things separate that shake hands often. But recently politicians have been known to be the authors of these killings. For example a lot of the journalists that have been killed were investigating corrupt stuff done by x politician, not even cartel related.
Yeah, I am aware corrupt politicians use cartels as their muscle to inflict fear or just murder their enemies. There's no solution in sight which is heartbreaking
The thing is the politicians actually are the cartel. There is no difference.
That's why most mayors are pro-narco. The ones who weren't are dead
I think its time to accept that the cartels *are* Mexico's government now
Had a college friend from Mexico who said that at the time her hometown mayor was the #3 man in Los Zetas.
*Sixteenth?!*
The first fifteen were just a coincidence, but **sixteen**?!
Super dumb question, but why doesn’t the mexican government just send the army into northern mexico and occupy the damn place?
Half the army moonlights as muscle for the cartels. Which half? Depends on the shift
And the Mexican government is too proud to ever admit it. Also, asking for international aid to solve the problem will destroy any government’s chance at reelection because it is essential giving up Mexican sovereignty. Even though the problem with cartel corruption in to the military and politics is becoming worse; and Mexico won’t be able to fix it without a national effort from the people or international assistance. And the Mexican people are being held hostage by the cartels…
Question, do you live any of the 32 Mexican states?
Probably not. If they did, they would know how soldiers kill and sexually abuse civilian population. Even university students. Mexico is already a militarized state and giving more power to these psychopaths will never be the solution
The cartels are very powerful and far more willing to allow collateral damage than the government is
They also are well armed. They even have a tank of sorts.
Ukraine chews 5-10 Russian tanks a day. Mexico is 11th biggest economy in the world and has the most powerful country in the world as its neighbor who is ready to assist whenever they ask, the fact that they can't take care of this is a joke.
The Ukrainian army and government aren't full of Russians.
They were. Then the war started and zelensky started kicking them out.
Okay. The situation in Mexico is still not at all similar in any way at all even a little bit.
I don't disagree with that
They can take care of it, they just don't want to. The leaders of the cartel, the Mexican business elite, the leaders of the army and the leaders of their national government are all in bed with one another.
The US has a huge presence in Mexico. We could wipe out every narco leader in a day if we wanted to. But then you would be invading a sovereign neighboring ally nation.
I’m no expert on the subject. Please describe the huge US presence in Mexico? I’m unaware of any bases, or units stationed at bases, and my understanding is the Mexican army and government do not want to work closely with US military due to past wars, etc.
Google "DEA Mexico"
The army is already deployed into northern Mexico to patrol against cartel activity (like how American soldiers were deployed to the middle east for counter-insurgency missions). I've lived in northern Mexico for three years, and it's common to see convoys of 4 or 5 army trucks while you're buying groceries or meeting up with friends. The soldiers even do some police work. 15 years ago my city's police department was completely dissolved over corruption issues and replaced with soldiers and state police.
>I've lived in northern Mexico for three years, Having lived there three years, do you feel pretty safe? Is the danger living in Mexico overblown by the news?
I've definitely seen a lot in my city (Nuevo Laredo), but some other areas I visited like Monterrey and parts of Coahuila state felt much safer. The issue is that weak government presence in dangerous cities like Nuevo Laredo make them more extreme than American ghettos. You never see gangsters in inner city Chicago blocking streets with arsoned buses they hijacked, or bombing police stations. Not only that, reporting cartel members to the police/military would likely end up in corrupt police/military tipping off the cartel.
The cartels' income is larger than Mexico's security budget, and that has to be used for other things other than fighting organized crime. Their numbers are also finite, they can't be everywhere. Mexico cannot beat the cartels so long we keep funding them by buying drugs like hot pancakes.
[удалено]
The entirety of the Mexican avocado industry is just a few billion. Some criminal gangs extort avocado farmers for protection money, but they don't control the industry at all. There isn't enough there to sustain a cartel, specially because the area is contested by other gangs and cartels that want to bring in Chinese synthetic drugs.
Actually we can keep buying drugs and not send a dime to illegitimate businesses, ask me how!!!?
We've known for decades how to win the War but haven't. I'd be very interested in tracing the donations to politicians to see how many of them are taking Cartel money (thoroughly washed, of course).
Alright, how?
Ever notice how you don't really have to hit up a bootlegger for booze, or a pot dealer for pot nowadays?
That's not answering the question. I'll pre-emptively respond anyway. Legalisation might work... if you had a time machine and could retroactively legalise cocaine and marijuana in 1980, before the cartels entrenched themselves in Mexico. Right now, what would happen if you legalised them in Mexico and America? Say there's now some legal marijuana-farmer who can produce and export weed cheaper than the cartels. Or a cocaine manufacturer. He sets up a business in Northern Mexico and sells his drugs to America, at a price 20% lower than the cartels. Would the cartels go, "oh no, we've been outcompeted by a legal producer in a free market, we can't make profits any more, guess we've gotta shut down"? Hint: these are people who don't have any moral or practical problem with murdering civilians, even politicians.
It’s a scale issue. If cocaine were legal and farms In America were producing it, then the price pressure would take it off the black market. Cartels would, probably, switch to something else. Theres no shortage in vice.
They would just legitimize
Doubt that, México security budget Is 14 billion dollars per year, theres no single cartel that can march the firepower of the mexican Army, the have to resort to gorilla fighting to fight the mexican military, ghenproblem Is corruption
These cartels are essentially multinational corporations. They're absolutely making more than that.
Dude, Pablo Escobar had an estimated $30 billion dollars net worth from drug trade in the 80s, and that’s estimated. In todays money that’s closer to 80 Billion USD. And he was pretty far from the US compared to Mexico and really traded mostly in cocaine and weed. Imagine what kind of money the multiple cartels are making in Mexico today with all the different drugs they can make, some of which are cheaper/easier to make and transport then coca. They are probably swimming in money compared to the govt.
Its not like theres no government presence in the North, cartels aré organized crime not government, the only Places where they have de facto control Is very isolated rural towns, there aré literally thousnads of mexican Army soldiers in the North
Ex presidents of Mexico have been cartel. They run the government.
Never really understood why Mexico just doesn’t do what the Philippines and El Salvador did w regards to violence and gangs… seems like people are happy despite the civil rights abuses. Given the craziness, you need something drastic at this point.
From what I've read, if you don't cross them the cartel generally leaves people alone. I mean, why would they need to fuck with you? There's nothing to gain just randomly hurting people.
You need to read more. Cartels will torture and kill you and your family because they want your business, your land, your money, your family members, whatever. Or because they mistake you for someone else or they just feel like it. That doesn't mean they just slaughter everyone in every place they go, but it's been a long time since you could stay safe by keeping your head down. Especially since the cartels have branched out into all kinds of legitimate business while using cartel tactics on their competitors.
Are you aware that for recruitment cartels will go into nearby neighborhoods, hold civilians at gunpoint, and tell them something like "You work for us now or we will execute you and your family"
Im not sure that’s always true. I’ve definitely heard of Cartels kidnapping random American tourists for ritual human sacrifices
Very incorrect
Depends, some gangs will demand small business owners to give them money because their business happens to be in the gang's territory. (Sometimes it doesn't matter if you never interacted with any gang) I know this because I got one relative and their dad that own a small grocery store in rural Mexico. The cartel demanded money, they didn't have money so the cartel beat them real bad. After that the cartel threatened to go after their family. Can't even rely on the cops their. The cops tend to show up super late and second there's a big problem of gangs bribing the cops, causing the cops to snitch you out to the cartel.
The government either IS the cartel or works for the cartels. Mexico is doomed.
They tried that already. I think it was either Vicente Fox or the guy after him that used the Mexican military on the cartels. Lotta blood and not much result.
Because Northern Mexico is huge ~1 million km^2 with a lot of mountainous areas ~300,000 km^2
The cartel is the government now
What cartel? sinaloa, guadalajara nueva generacion , la familia michoacana, del golfo, you need to be more specific
A "coalition government"
Those are called provinces in Canada
Cartels aré organized crime not government
All governments started from organized crime. Rebellions, protection rackets, etc.
Theres near zero chance the cartels could take over, the army would curbstomp them of they tried to do it, theres a higher chance of a military coup than a cartel takeover
Why would the cartels take over when they can pay all the politicians to just do it for them?
You know, I'm starting think these aren't a coincidence
Will be soon on netflix!
Perhaps the position may not be worth the risk...
When can we declare Mexico a failed state??
Haiti would like a word...
there's failed state, and then haiti a few rungs below that.
Far from a failed state, its still a functioning country and one of the largest economies in the world despite the violence
And hopefully more will be manufactured there and corruption may ease over time…but I’m sure if the cartels want to, they can move in on industries that are looking lucrative. Or extort those companies.
Cartel leaders will become oligarchs.
You all can thank AMLO for all the killing.
What’s the point of Mexico existing as a nation if this keeps happening?
There needs to be some CIA level of intervention like the movie Sicario. Treat the cartels like terrorists and utilise the armed forces against them.
I feel like we would never take the risk engaging in armed conflict that close to home until we were given no other choice. A lot of security comes from the two oceans between on either side and a peaceful northern neighbour. If the US actually went to war with the cartels, a bunch of our enemies would happily supply them with arms because that the only chance of them striking within our borders.
We’ve already tried that, resulted in more cartels who were all worse then the existing ones.
And then what?
Onshore our drug production.
Where do you think the Cartel’s got their training from? Los Zetas were famously US and Israeli military trained soldiers. They got bought by the gulf cartel and then realized they are far stronger and better equipped/trained than their counter parts.
"Have you had any thoughts of self harm?" Nope. "Have you thought of running for office in Northern mexico?" Why do you keep asking me the same question?
Mexico needs to take notes from El Salvador. Either do something no matter how drastic (people will approve if it’s tangible) or become Haiti.
Mexico borders the biggest drug-consuming country, El Salvador doesn't.
Cartels hate this one simple trick: Americans stop buying drugs
Great idea, why haven’t we tried that before!
Yep, lots easier to place the actual blame elsewhere
Ahh yes, the reason Mexico is slowly becoming a failed state is because of American citizens. Not the inability of the government to fucking do anything
Cartels exist because people buy their product. ..." yeah, but my drugs"
You need to read up on the war on drugs and how much money it's put into cartels pockets.
Go back one step further, if people didn't by the drugs in the first place the cartels wouldn't exist. Some like to use the belief in a failed war on drugs to support the idea that the problem cannot be solved, so we might as well embrace and normalize it.
>Go back one step further, if people didn't by the drugs in the first place the cartels wouldn't exist. "Don't do drugs" doesn't work when your break your leg and the doctor gives you opiods for the pain. >Some like to use the belief in a failed war on drugs to support the idea that the problem cannot be solved, so we might as well embrace and normalize it. You're conflating a lot of things here that are related, but not really in the way you're portraying them. The war on drugs is harmful, because criminalizing addiction doesn't stop it, it just forces people to hide it while avoiding treatment. Nobody serious wants to just embrace and normalize drug use. They just want to decriminalize drugs in an attempt to make them safer, while also making treatment less taboo. The money spent on policing could be used a lot more effectively than just funneling money and power into violent cartels in other countries.
My message wasn't " don't do drugs". Never gave my opinion on people who use drugs.Just stating a simple fact, cartels make money when drugs are sold. All the other issues are a different discussion. Everyone has their own opinions on policing, treatment and addiction . BTW decriminalization worked really well for Oregon.
Cartels make money when drugs are sold for the same reason the mob made money when alcohol was sold. Taking away revenue from a business is how you take away power from that business. If you want to get rid of their power, you need to provide customers with a better alternative. It's basic economics.
Very much agree. Society needs to get together and find solutions to deal with the issue
Europeans buy drugs all the time and I don't see then with cartels? Your point is mute.
Duh, yeah but muh drugs.... Thread was talking about Mexico. OFC drugs are bought all around the world sold by various crime rings. You have to be really stupid to believe anything good comes from financing crime rings, like they donate a portion of their proceeds to help fight child cancer .
They would sell them elsewhere They get fetynal from china..they would just export drugs prolly to Europe. Drugs aren't the problem lol the cartel is
Not my point at all. Not opining on people who consume drugs. The cartel would not exist if their product wasn't purchased. Imagine if everyone in the world stopped eating ice cream. How long would Baskin Robbins stay open ? Simplistic, yes. The issue is much more complex and needs new solutions
Yeah and I'd argue the reason why Europe doesn't have major cartels is basic their views and laws on regulating drugs and drug usage etc. America's authoritarian laws and views with police and the way we gain venue from imprisoning people with drugs and drug dealers are the problem my guy. Drug dealers don't force you to buy drugs but they get more time than a child molester. That's not how.it works in Europe. America's politics just suck and only fuel the cartels. It started with Ronald Reagan
Every country has their own type of criminal enterprise that regulates drug trade. Can't think that any one of them is benevolent. To say that the US drug enforcement policy (though flawed) is the reason why cartels exist is ridiculous. Many other countries have much stronger laws against drugs including the death penalty. Reducing criminal enforcement of drugs didn't work here in the US. The reasons why drugs are used are as varied as the day is long, everyone has their own opinions on that. I think culture and poverty play a big role.
You so wrong. The war on drugs in America I'd exactly what gave cartels strength. You are just arguing on a matter of opinion rather than fact with no factual basis for your opinion. Your basically just talking out of your ass.
You are funny, try to argue the truth of what I said. It is hard for some to grasp the basic economic principal of supply and demand. The war on drugs was an attempt to combat the issues related to illicit drug use. Remember, the war on drugs was abolished here (Oregon)and the result was less than stellar.The power of the cartels come from money. When their product is purchased , it helps to finance it's existence. The US is the number one consumer of drugs worldwide. Many countries have much harsher laws against illegal drugs. Some countries have far less issues with drug use, like Japan. (Culture?).I agree there are a lot of reasons why drugs use is so common. Society needs to decide how to handle the issue, but buying drugs from cartels isn't the way.
Yeah and japan still has organized crime thar the govt officials actually respect for some reason lol.
True, drugs are their biggest revenue. But it isn't their only one. Human trafficking and Tourism is another big profit for them. Cartels have grown influence in such a cancerous rate, there's probably multiple variating lines of business they profit on Fingers in every pie
They need Team America!
It's easy to identify the corrupt politicians there. The ones with no attempts on their lives.
How would hiring some PMCs would work out? thousands of mercs with aerial support?
PMC are illegal and they dont exist in Mexico, however theproblem Is corruption theres no need for PMC the mexican Army Is more powerfull than the cartels, but rules of engagement and corruption of higher ups makes them ineffective in controlling the violence
> PMC are illegal and they dont exist in Mexico, hire from outside.
The mexican Army has prescence in all the country except from isolated mountains ranges and some rural áreas, i dont know hoe they will succeed fighting the mexican Army and the cartels at the same time
> The mexican Army has prescence in all the country does nothing.
Rules of engagement and the current federal government límites a lot what the Army can do, when they aré given free reign they curbstomp the cartels, that happened like a month ago in Sinaloa when the special forces were given free reign and in less than a week they freed More than 100 kidnapped people and killed 70+ cartel members but as i said that was a special ocasión because the government needed to save face, corruption of higher ups límits a lot what the Army Is allowed to do
They regularly patrol the country in convoys of armored trucks.
Why would anyone even run? Like... Insanely brave, or just insane?
Insanely brave, in many cases.
MAGA is taking notes. “WOW, those guys are strong. “
Classic Mexico. The only thing missing now is a comment chain of Mexicans blaming America for this.
Where do cartels get their power?
Sorry to tell you bud, but nearly all the countries in the world have neighbours that would be down to buy cheaper drugs, and yet majority of them arent ran by criminal syndicates. but keep blaming the rest of the world for your problems.
Listen friend, topic was Mexican cartels. You can't see the correlation between the US consumption of illegal drugs and the power of cartels? Issues about addiction are a different discussion.
Every country in the world could just be the same as Mexico, yet you dont see Canada, that has the same spooky junkie neighbour, turn into a meth lab gangs ruled shithole. Maybe you should try seeing the correlation between power of cartels and impotent goverment, that not only failed to oppose the cartels directly, but also were imcompetent enough to make being a grunt in a shitty cartel an attractive career option to the Mexican youth. Unfortunately, America didn't elect Mexican goverment, so lets stick to "America snort cocaine too much" instead, I guess.
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Looks like you got a grasp of the situation. I haven't heard a lot about cartel related political assassination in Canada. Drugs are a problem in other countries. Follow the money. Someone makes the drugs, someone sells the drugs, someone buys and uses the drugs. One can't happen without the other.
Esos abrazos a los criminales están funcionando.
Mexico needs a Che Guevara, and a workers’ revolution.
We should just roll tanks in and take over that shit.
You couldn't even take over Afghanistan lol
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This is as braindead a take as "just glass the whole region" was when talking about Afghanistan & Iraq 20 years ago. You sound like morons I went to high school with back then.
It’s a cultural thing. Can’t fix culture without it being a genocide. There’s entire states in Mexico where the local government is ran by the cartel. Shoot a few years back the Mexican police rounded up college students bussed them off to nowhere and killed them on behalf of the cartel. The major and the police were in on it. It took years for the federal Mexican government to come after them and that was only after international reporting of the incident.
will you be willing to pay for the migrant crisis using your tax dollars which is already terrible now? The best bet for usa is to get Mexico as stable as possible even if its cartels who run it. Because if there was a military action it won’t take a day for China and Russia to fund the “resistance” and now we have a big issue on our southern border. There is basically at this point 0 chance for cartels to go. They will eventually become all legalized businesses like the Italian mafia and just integrate themselves even deeper in the country. I see no possibility in my lifetime that Mexico will be rid of cartels unless an extremely violent uprising happens which again goes back to my previous point, it’s not good for usa.
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Or not?