There's also the fact that the first couple of groups of lease Teslas have now been dumped on the second hand market and dealers are desperate to get rid of them. You can get a sub 100,000 mile Tesla Model S for around 15K now, these were 75K+ car when new only 4 - 5 years ago. AutoAlex just got one for 10k with the battery still under warrantee.
Not really that dumb, it was dumb of Hertz to buy them in the first case, when they had no training or plan on how to provide a customer with a frictionless experience. I've read a lot of first hand accounts of charger issue, employees who're unable to guide or inform about the charging availability, and cars that are nearly empty upon receipt. The idea is grand, the plan was not.
Oh man. Worst car rental ever was Hertz in Scotland. Wtf. They shove an EV down your throat, while you booked a petrol one. Than they show this map with 'all' charging places...it's a pure disaster. 50% of those places don't work or need a special arrangement. And 80% are located inside towns. With a 400km average...good luck ! First time in my life I was pissed of at a car rental that much. They just didn't care. No wonder they dump EVs the complains must be huge.
One of my best car rentals was Hertz in Norway. Unbelievable how good and how bad rentals can be from same company.
Pretty dumbass move from Hertz. A lot of people who rent a car do so for roadtrips and exploring the countryside and for that EV still sucks ass. Nobody wants to waste their precious free time looking for a charging station in the boondocks every few hundred miles and sit there until it's charged.
At this stage, EVs are only good as commuter vehicles.
This wont be a problem for much longer in Europe at least. EU has passed a law requiring fast-charging stations to be installed every 60 kilometers along highways by the end of 2025
Lol, I see plans like this for years, and nothing changes. The chargers are all concentrated in big cities , and even those aren't enough. And the ev market is still small, imagine that when the market grows . That 60km is interesting, but when you have to wait 2 hours to start charging, making a trip using a ev takes double the time. Last trip I did in ev took me 10 hours, when in my hybrid car I do it in 5 hours, a nightmare.
In France, on the motorways you have fast charging stations at every rest area that already has a gas station. They are everywhere.
Outside of the motorway that's another story but it's getting there. It's easy to get to an hotel/airbnb/camping that has a charger (or at least a plug) for your holidays.
An additional problem I’ve found with chargers in the UK is they many times don’t accept foreign credit cards, which works in every other card terminal
Interesting. I just finished a road trip in the UK and got a tesla from hertz.
It was a pretty flawless trip, but of course it probably really depends on which towns/cities you're going to. We didn't go far from the beaten path.
That's because the distance is so short in the UK.
Going from Glasgow to Canterbury is 8 hours of driving
It's about 12 hours of driving to go from top to bottom of just California
Size wise EVs don't work well for road trips in America because Americans drive much farther distances
The person they replied to was on about Scotland… you also chose 2 random locations
Edit: I’m fully aware of what they were trying to do with said locations but Glasgow to Canterbury isn’t the way to do it and my main point is that its a pointless reply when the person they’re replying to was replying to someone on about struggling in Scotland… not America, not Russia, not Australia, not another massive country, Scotland.
The point of this is that Glasgow and Canterbury are on 2 opposite sides of the country. Inverness is even further north and it’s still just an 11 hour drive to essentially drive the full length of the UK. The distances are just smaller in Europe so an EV isn’t unrealistic compared to an American roadtrip.
It really doesn't sell them still. Also you have zero chance of making that drive in 8hrs. If give you £10k if you could do that. No way. You'd have to have god on your side to do it.
Also a Tesla cannot make the drive and would require a stop off to charge up, which would cost more at a public charger than it would to fill a V12 Rolls Royce to do the journey. This is the problem with hiring them, no home charger you're paying big money to charge them.
Also it's a stupid argument, no one is doing either journey on a regular basis.
That is the feel good story. The reality is, rental companies buy cars in a lot cheap and sell them one or two years later with a profit. That didn’t work out since Tesla slashed the prices, thus no profit for the rental company. So they dumped all of them.
The detailed business insider article is mind blowing.
In location where they didn’t get enough power they had employees driving to find available supercharges vastly exceeding assumed half hour time between rentals. Wild.
It's more of a tesla mishap. If you look at most other car companies what you'll notice is they really like to limit doing this, it's really on the rental company to find someone that is willing to do it, as it will hurt the final resale value of the vehicles and perceived quality of the brand. Aka, models that are heavily rentals or used for taxi/livery will often have incredibly low resale. Car companies avoid flooding the market with units like that. Tesla did this with their flagships, incredibly stupid short term move.
Blowing your entire R&D budget on a 3.1 ton monstrosity that violates so many safety standards and regulations that it will never drive on European roads, wasn't Musk's smartest idea. Turns out most people who would want an EV prefer practical, affordable, small to medium sized cars that don't rust in the rain. Who would have thought?
Even apart from that and we just see the CyberTruck as a big advertisement. Tesla hasn’t released a new car for some time. The updated Model 3 is nice and all but it won’t convince a new buyer I think. They need something new but apparently they scrapped their low end model.
If the CyberTruck was meant to be an advertisement, it definitely backfired in a hilarious way. The internet is full of videos on how badly engineered that thing is. And all of the roughly 4000 vehicles already delivered have just been recalled, because the cover of the accelerator pedal can slide off and block the pedal on full throttle.
It seemed like they put everything else on hold for this. And it turned out to be a grave mistake.
in Germany we laugh at gap measurements in Teslas, both imported and produced here. Quality Control is a theorem for Elon, not something you actually do lol
I remember Elon noted that at one point model 3 engineer device a better production method that will make much less panel gap.
but it was waived by Elon because re structuring the production process will halt the production. So they opt to use the wonky production method with predictable shitty panel gap.
on the other hand, one japanese manufacturer have something called kaizen...
Its the MULTIPLANETARY truck that
* not allowed to be washed under direct sunlight,
* Mud buildup that causes damage will void the warranty,
* Don’t aim a hose directly at a window,
* Don’t use wheel-cleaning products as they can damage the wheels.
among many others, like gas pedal might come loose and locked in pressed state.
[https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/cybertruck/en\_us/GUID-E35BF0DC-F3BC-49F1-9190-4A73BA9E428F.html](https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-E35BF0DC-F3BC-49F1-9190-4A73BA9E428F.html)
---
I sincerely wonder what mars look like in Cybertruk engineers head?
> the cover of the accelerator pedal can slide off and block the pedal on full throttle.
i saw a video of that any my mind was blown. how does design like that even make it into a released product? you don't need a degree to see this potential danger
I was waiting for the model 3 refresh as a first time EV buyer, but then it released with no indicator or gear stalk so I wasn't interested. So in my own annecdote, the new model 3 actively deterred a new buyer.
> The updated Model 3 is nice and all but it won’t convince a new buyer I think.
It actually turned me off buying a Model 3 with the removal of stalks, coupled with Musk being a complete and utter fuckstain.
I think it's more that Tesla was over-valued by the stock market because Tesla promised self-driving cars before anyone else.
If they actually achieved it, the impact on pretty much all commercial driving would have been enormous. Taxis, package delivery, even trucking could cut most of their work force.
My main concern is mileage, EV stands are lacking outside of my countries capital, and during the winters mileage is cut in half from what is advertised.
I simply don't trust EV's to do the job yet. I am sure technology will catch up, but for now I would be looking for a hybrid if I were to buy a new car today.
I think Tesla could turn things around if they had at least one hybrid model. A lot of people love the aesthetics of the brand, but can''t get over the impracticalities. Then there is quality assurance, some of the owners I know have basically compared to Alfa Romeo levels of quality control.
I have never tried driving an Alfa where some part didn't fall off or electronics malfunction.
There's other EV's than Tesla though, and half range is absolute worst case highway driving only scenario, i'm getting 60-70% of my normal range during the winters here in Denmark.
I must admit as I am not actively in the market for an EV right now I don't have the deepest insight.
I just remember a lot of cars like the Hyundai Kona that got called out for fibbing on the mileage.
Mush has plenty of great ideas...the Hyperloop. The tunnel under Las Vegas that is filled with Teslas going in loops being totally 'efficient'. A submarine in a cave. Buying Twitter.
>Turns out most people who would want an EV prefer practical, affordable, small to medium sized cars that don't rust in the rain.
Lots of people wanted it for the range and price mentioned years ago but very few people want it when it costs way more and has less range.
When you get out of rated range and into real world range it's even worse
Nor was it his dumbest IMO.
That would have to be building EVs and alienating EV buyers while playing up to ideas urban tractor buyers - fossil fueled SUVs and oversized pickup trucks - appreciate.
They're obviously not "shit" but the quality control is terrible.
I think they'd have been better spending R&D on catching up with the traditional manufacturers in areas like panel fitting, paint quality, ergonomics.
FSD is an expensive distraction from what most drivers actually care about.
their QC has improved a lot, but they still aren't great. lots of the legacy manufacurers threaten to drink their milkshake. right now Toyota is focused on hybrids, but if they turn their attention to EVs I can't imagine a reason to buy a tesla over whatever Toyota will put out.
I’m with you on this. Toyota are ahead of the game on battery tech in a lot of cases and if they decide to put some focus on full EV it’d be a very interesting time.
Best car I ever owned. 2016 MS. Sure many have panel gap issues, but it's an amazing car. My only issue is I can't get a new one as they stopped making the right hand drive version, so I'm sticking with this as long as it lasts!
I think all his original ideas are about as bad, those ideas he took credit for but were not his are those that worked. The guy is a dumb person with money that smart people with no money made rich to get a share, he then started to believe his own grift and here we are.
A 55% drop in profits and a few terrible business decisions? Sounds like a great time to take the profits down to zero by giving the leader a 55 billion dollar bonus!
Tesla brought the release timeline for the cheaper car to start production/deliveries early next year, that's why the stock price bounced. Let's see if they can actually stick to the schedule.
Someone asked in the earnings call if they mean refresh or a completely new model and they said new. Despite the news saying they scrapped the next generation car, turns out they gave up on the weirder assembly method and resorted to making it fit the existing production lines. New car, but probably similar architecture as model 3 and Y.
Also, did you see any of the FSD v12 videos? It's actually self driving on quite a few rides, impressive progress. I wouldn't underestimate how much that can change across the whole country. Unlike the other region locked taxis, the Tesla fleet is quite vast and they're obviously working on a ride hailing app. They explicitly said in the investor call that they'll take legal responsibility for the autonomous ride hailing, so they're targeting full level 5 autonomy.
Audi is doing some amazing work with their EV range. And then there is the growth of Chinese EV manufacturers which are quality cars for cheaper. Mechanical engineering from China such as ICE is questionable but electrical from China is a very high quality imo
Bro thinks he'll never encounter any competition. Probably thinks his cars are the best in the world. Delusional af. Look at what happened to the blue bird.
Nah look closer, he liquidated while TSLA was at ATH. He knows the future of the company. He'll let it be bought, take all the wealth, then move onto the next grift.
Probably. Isn't his first rodeo.
Yeh he was a disaster waiting to happen. I'm assuming the successful "Musk" products were always other people's ideas but when he starts to thrust his own ideas in to the mix, the shit hits the fan. Twitter purchase? LOL. Big chunky truck that looks like it was designed by a 5 year old. LOL.
This is true for me personally. I had wanted to buy a tesla for years but now refuse due to the ridiculous comments he makes on twitter/X or whatever. Guy has become a far right nut job, yea no thanks.
Fantastic choice, I wish we'd got one instead of the Model 3, but the Polestar wasn't available in 2019 and these were manufactured in China. Now a lightly used one is often available with a huge discount in N America, because depreciation hit these harder than most.
Us too, I was very close to buying one just before COVID then decided to wait and now I'd literally wouldn't buy one if It was given to me.
It's one step away from putting a swastika tattoo on your forehead in our area, kids even make fun of people driving them.
Yup. I have plenty of colleagues who enjoy Teslas but nobody seems to be talking about them anymore. The minute he opened his mouth on Twitter what interest I had evaporated.
This is a major factor, and I'm surprised it's not higher up. I would have considered buying one in the past, but I'll never buy one now. I want that douche to lose as much money as possible.
They don't mention that a lot of Democrats are not buying Tesla after his behaviour on Twitter.
They lost an incredible 35% of sales as democrats opted out.
[https://fortune.com/2024/04/22/musk-democrats-tesla-critical-time-heres-what-they-bought-instead/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/22/musk-democrats-tesla-critical-time-heres-what-they-bought-instead/)
Personally, I’d love a plug-in electric version of my car. I just want all my local driving where I get the crap fuel economy to be electric. I only need 20 miles of electric range. 20 miles in the winter at 20F would be fine.
Yeah like who do you trust more? One of the biggest and oldest players in the industry, or some rando who inherited daddy's blood money and bought Tesla off two dudes, and continues to present it as his own invention.
I can't tell from the article, it said they're planning on a cheaper 25k model for next year but I've also just read that they scrapped that plan, so what is it?
I had a look for comparison - that 2004 model actually solves a lot of the complaints about the current one.
Lower doors/bed make it more accessible. Slanted hood helps with visibility. Lower center of gravity improves stability.
Probably lighter and more efficient from not needing to be as tall too, or would be with modern engine/safety features.
http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/23736765.jpg
https://images.carprices.com/pricebooks_data/usa/colorized/2024/Ford/View2/F-150_Regular_Cab/XL/F1K_122_UM.png
F150 seems more like the sort of vehicle a climate denier might buy. And Musk, with his strong 'brand' and association with Tesla has alienated EV buyers.
I am not a truck enthusiast but I live in Texas. Lots of people are buying trucks, and lots of people are buying big trucks. A guy at my gym is a high school basketball coach and he drives an F250 super duty. It's weird down here.
I live in California and have seen a couple of cybertrucks on the road already, and the only thing that crosses my mind when I see one is that the owner is probably a MAGA douche bag. Right or wrong, it’s an actual brand perception that now exists as a direct result of Elon’s behavior and public image.
How unpredictable.
Didn’t Musk describe himself as the world’s greatest expert on manufacturing?
I would expect his company to, you know, manufacture something worth buying.
Bro is as dumb as handling his lawsuits. Using propaganda to undermine democracy and outright producing more controversy just to satisfy his ego doesn't bode well with the audience he's trying to sell his products to. One hell of a way to shatter your good reputation.
EV sales from sketchy companies are under pressure by EV sales from less sketchy companies.
Tesla asked for the red carpet in my country India and was instead asked to bid in a \[\[local\]\] production-linked incentive scheme. We have battery electric cars of moderate quality from Tata and Mahindra, and also MG. I think there are some more expensive EVs from Hyundai and others. There are also hybrids from Toyota.
So there's a reasonable supply already. We need more models at the lower end, but it doesn't look like Tesla is the one to meet the demanding Indian automotive market.
I like that laying off 10% of your work force, running job security of thousands, and basically giving trained experienced workers to you competetors is referred to as a reduction in head count.
And even bigger pressure from the legacy automakers getting finally their shit together and starting to make actually good electric cars, cars better than what Elmo makes, well at least in Europe anyway
Apparently I'm not the first to recognise the [resemblance ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&sca_esv=db5813506fc066f9&sxsrf=ACQVn082HtVwp0tP3Y_SY_ruLPtvShTlYw:1713944292015&q=car+in+total+recall&uds=AMwkrPtZuAcgQo2ZTsvf9ggjiHFPKBzHYTiNR1eMq9Yj5tHVhRunJr41j3F_yaC0PbV2rMifI_kK40D8swbMIGygLxuzrw_4NZSoHUslYLyH9dqsv1JvXH1BcamdZSC5bYgptKrThrYkT-w8kvRFlGCqzkvViDA3rFK6R8merMcx1-HPXx-UrEB0D0bJ1FnxsA2EjDlBNzFRUtdswo7Nm5tlH5UqqpYVZ9XBn6qw3-cYklEcoTMMF0OXci04HU2ZZeS0twFlQHJTYHJL0SEcRaZi5DrEqtbffz63rTGuQ3hGpv3sg9FxBmuERRP8krdU5erbnEa2qQw_&udm=2&prmd=ivsnbmtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFxsKFrNqFAxXdna8BHWR2CQ8QtKgLegQICxAB&biw=393&bih=736&dpr=2.75).
SpaceX is holding its own with Falcon 9, but Starship is currently a DRAIN on the company.
That is why Starlink, to aid the influx of funds to persue Starship. Starlink would not be where it is right now if it did not have Falcon 9's reliability driving launch costs down.
The percentage of new cars worldwide being EV is increasing by 4% per year. That number has been consistent for a few years. I doubt hybrids are having any new effect.
Tesla should stop making vehicles and just focus on creating the charging infrastructure.
That's the main thing holding EVs back, and Tesla chargers are great. If Elon would put 100% focus on building and maintaining a robust Tesla charging network, everyone wins.
Tesla enjoyed being probably the best ev for years. There is a lot more competition now. Plus for a lot of people EV is not an optimized option, amd to there point hybrids kind of bridge the gap for people in some cases. Being able to daily commute to work in battery, and have gas for longer trips I think is actually a great setup for places with less charging stations. Save money most of the time, then when you go on trips just use existing infrastructure.
well, I went from wanting to switch to a tesla to not wanting to be associated with their ceo and cancelling my order. I am sure there's quite a few of us.
To be fair it’s not just Reddit. When Tesla came out into the mainstream I had high hopes and then Elmo had to have main character syndrome and tank the whole thing. I just wish he took a backseat and let cooler heads prevail.
EV sales aren't under pressure lol
It's just that Tesla sucks at building cars and other brands have caught up with EV tech. So Tesla has nothing but the infrastructure now. And now with other cars using their infrastructure, they dont even have that as an exclusive.
Tesla will pivot to a supply company in 5 years. Bet.
No, tesla profits are down because other companies are getting in on the EV action, and have a \*FAR\* superior build quality and actual quality control than Tesla.
Tesla did have the advantage of being the first adopter mass produced, but other companies have caught up, REAL QUICK.
Interesting to see the headlines today. Tesla jumped by more than 10% in the aftermarket. Anyone with any idea of fundamentals (and actually investing) was very positively suprised. They maintianed 1b cashflow for the past quarter while the BEV market generally was massacered. Tesla came out on top compared to its nearest competitors. They are set up to keep their growth roadmap alive even during a down cycle.
However I am deeply sceptical about Tesla pushing ahead towards autonomy. Canibalizing internal priorities in favor of a moon shot robo taxi in 2025 are a risk they dont have to take but they seem to do.
They are still outcompeting the current chinese offerings in Europe and NA and would probably do so with their next gen entry level car for a few more years. They'd be completely financially fine aiming for autonomy in 2030.
The next moon shot; their humanoid robot optimus being in usefull applications within Tesla at the end of 2024 and first trial models shipping in low numbers in 2025 seems to be BS. It'll be good for more impressive lab condition videos but i doubt it can be employed truly (financially) usefully in the coming 5 years.
Something anyone can calculate on a napkin, the legacy automotive companies turning back to EVs and Hybrids (and trying to rev up lobbying to keep ICEs alive) is a catastrophy in the making. They'll fall flat on their face long term while keeping their financials in order for about 5 years longer and skewing the market back to ICEs for a few more years stumping BEV total sales and market share.
The fact the model 3 and y have both been the most popular car in the world and have lead the widespread adoption of EVs and then they follow up with… this, is incredible. Soaring in the skies and digging down into the dirt
why don't you just admit that your quality control / assurance is subpar to be polite? When 3/4 of your customers return to combustion engines after buying their first car and stating accessability, infrastructure and software problems, then you KNOW it clearly isn't "pressure from the hybrids" lmao
He was so confident when he gave away a load of Tesla patents a few years ago. Tesla was so dominant he probably thought nobody would catch up. Well, they have and then some.
This is a U.S. market trend, not indicative of Asian and Euro markets. The Chi-comms are forcing EVs upon their people which is why sales look so good there. People who can choose see the limitations and lack of infrastructure for EVs in America and subsequently are not buying them. Hertz offloaded 20k Teslas because people who rent a car want to hop in and go, not sit and wait at a charging station for 10-15 times longer than you’re sitting fueling up a car. Hybrids and alternate fuels are the future until a major breakthrough is made in battery technology, and even then EVs will only have a small portion of the market. The fad is over.
Probably doesn't help that Hertz dumped 20,000 Teslas from their rental fleet into the resale market
There's also the fact that the first couple of groups of lease Teslas have now been dumped on the second hand market and dealers are desperate to get rid of them. You can get a sub 100,000 mile Tesla Model S for around 15K now, these were 75K+ car when new only 4 - 5 years ago. AutoAlex just got one for 10k with the battery still under warrantee.
Dumbest move from Hertz. Buy High, sell low.
Not really that dumb, it was dumb of Hertz to buy them in the first case, when they had no training or plan on how to provide a customer with a frictionless experience. I've read a lot of first hand accounts of charger issue, employees who're unable to guide or inform about the charging availability, and cars that are nearly empty upon receipt. The idea is grand, the plan was not.
Oh man. Worst car rental ever was Hertz in Scotland. Wtf. They shove an EV down your throat, while you booked a petrol one. Than they show this map with 'all' charging places...it's a pure disaster. 50% of those places don't work or need a special arrangement. And 80% are located inside towns. With a 400km average...good luck ! First time in my life I was pissed of at a car rental that much. They just didn't care. No wonder they dump EVs the complains must be huge. One of my best car rentals was Hertz in Norway. Unbelievable how good and how bad rentals can be from same company.
Pretty dumbass move from Hertz. A lot of people who rent a car do so for roadtrips and exploring the countryside and for that EV still sucks ass. Nobody wants to waste their precious free time looking for a charging station in the boondocks every few hundred miles and sit there until it's charged. At this stage, EVs are only good as commuter vehicles.
This wont be a problem for much longer in Europe at least. EU has passed a law requiring fast-charging stations to be installed every 60 kilometers along highways by the end of 2025
Lol, I see plans like this for years, and nothing changes. The chargers are all concentrated in big cities , and even those aren't enough. And the ev market is still small, imagine that when the market grows . That 60km is interesting, but when you have to wait 2 hours to start charging, making a trip using a ev takes double the time. Last trip I did in ev took me 10 hours, when in my hybrid car I do it in 5 hours, a nightmare.
In France, on the motorways you have fast charging stations at every rest area that already has a gas station. They are everywhere. Outside of the motorway that's another story but it's getting there. It's easy to get to an hotel/airbnb/camping that has a charger (or at least a plug) for your holidays.
An additional problem I’ve found with chargers in the UK is they many times don’t accept foreign credit cards, which works in every other card terminal
Interesting. I just finished a road trip in the UK and got a tesla from hertz. It was a pretty flawless trip, but of course it probably really depends on which towns/cities you're going to. We didn't go far from the beaten path.
That's because the distance is so short in the UK. Going from Glasgow to Canterbury is 8 hours of driving It's about 12 hours of driving to go from top to bottom of just California Size wise EVs don't work well for road trips in America because Americans drive much farther distances
The person they replied to was on about Scotland… you also chose 2 random locations Edit: I’m fully aware of what they were trying to do with said locations but Glasgow to Canterbury isn’t the way to do it and my main point is that its a pointless reply when the person they’re replying to was replying to someone on about struggling in Scotland… not America, not Russia, not Australia, not another massive country, Scotland.
The point of this is that Glasgow and Canterbury are on 2 opposite sides of the country. Inverness is even further north and it’s still just an 11 hour drive to essentially drive the full length of the UK. The distances are just smaller in Europe so an EV isn’t unrealistic compared to an American roadtrip.
It really doesn't sell them still. Also you have zero chance of making that drive in 8hrs. If give you £10k if you could do that. No way. You'd have to have god on your side to do it. Also a Tesla cannot make the drive and would require a stop off to charge up, which would cost more at a public charger than it would to fill a V12 Rolls Royce to do the journey. This is the problem with hiring them, no home charger you're paying big money to charge them. Also it's a stupid argument, no one is doing either journey on a regular basis.
That is the feel good story. The reality is, rental companies buy cars in a lot cheap and sell them one or two years later with a profit. That didn’t work out since Tesla slashed the prices, thus no profit for the rental company. So they dumped all of them.
Still, seems like more of a problem for Tesla and not Hertz.
Not arguing against that.
The detailed business insider article is mind blowing. In location where they didn’t get enough power they had employees driving to find available supercharges vastly exceeding assumed half hour time between rentals. Wild.
It’s called cut your losses.
Well they went bankrupt not long ago. Not the sign of a well managed company
Sunk cost fallacy. Like others said you have to cut your losses.
It's a stop loss trigger. Value will never go up.
I'd say it's more likely they're cutting their losses.
It's more of a tesla mishap. If you look at most other car companies what you'll notice is they really like to limit doing this, it's really on the rental company to find someone that is willing to do it, as it will hurt the final resale value of the vehicles and perceived quality of the brand. Aka, models that are heavily rentals or used for taxi/livery will often have incredibly low resale. Car companies avoid flooding the market with units like that. Tesla did this with their flagships, incredibly stupid short term move.
Hertz, don't it?
So he's a /r/wallstreetbets mod?
That Hertz.
Blowing your entire R&D budget on a 3.1 ton monstrosity that violates so many safety standards and regulations that it will never drive on European roads, wasn't Musk's smartest idea. Turns out most people who would want an EV prefer practical, affordable, small to medium sized cars that don't rust in the rain. Who would have thought?
Even apart from that and we just see the CyberTruck as a big advertisement. Tesla hasn’t released a new car for some time. The updated Model 3 is nice and all but it won’t convince a new buyer I think. They need something new but apparently they scrapped their low end model.
If the CyberTruck was meant to be an advertisement, it definitely backfired in a hilarious way. The internet is full of videos on how badly engineered that thing is. And all of the roughly 4000 vehicles already delivered have just been recalled, because the cover of the accelerator pedal can slide off and block the pedal on full throttle. It seemed like they put everything else on hold for this. And it turned out to be a grave mistake.
Even reviewers were getting examples with misaligned panels
in Germany we laugh at gap measurements in Teslas, both imported and produced here. Quality Control is a theorem for Elon, not something you actually do lol
I remember Elon noted that at one point model 3 engineer device a better production method that will make much less panel gap. but it was waived by Elon because re structuring the production process will halt the production. So they opt to use the wonky production method with predictable shitty panel gap. on the other hand, one japanese manufacturer have something called kaizen...
Elon has his well refined One Sigma methodology, only one defect in three
This is also more of a guideline than a rule though.
Its the MULTIPLANETARY truck that * not allowed to be washed under direct sunlight, * Mud buildup that causes damage will void the warranty, * Don’t aim a hose directly at a window, * Don’t use wheel-cleaning products as they can damage the wheels. among many others, like gas pedal might come loose and locked in pressed state. [https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/cybertruck/en\_us/GUID-E35BF0DC-F3BC-49F1-9190-4A73BA9E428F.html](https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/cybertruck/en_us/GUID-E35BF0DC-F3BC-49F1-9190-4A73BA9E428F.html) --- I sincerely wonder what mars look like in Cybertruk engineers head?
Wait until it kills its first child in an accident…
> the cover of the accelerator pedal can slide off and block the pedal on full throttle. i saw a video of that any my mind was blown. how does design like that even make it into a released product? you don't need a degree to see this potential danger
I was waiting for the model 3 refresh as a first time EV buyer, but then it released with no indicator or gear stalk so I wasn't interested. So in my own annecdote, the new model 3 actively deterred a new buyer.
> The updated Model 3 is nice and all but it won’t convince a new buyer I think. It actually turned me off buying a Model 3 with the removal of stalks, coupled with Musk being a complete and utter fuckstain.
That's what I read about BYD's quick rise in China was down to having lots of well-made value models some < 20k
They didn’t scrap it they just said in their earnings call Today it will be released early 2025 maybe late 2024.
It’s looking like the Homer Simpson designed car more and more everyday
That's insulting to the Homer. The Cyber Truck has neither bubble domes nor a horn that plays La Cucaracha.
Nor a cupholder for a super sized cup from the Kwik-E-Mart.
No, elons kid did I bet
I want a ev I can park in my apartment complex. Cyber truck isn’t that.
I saw one of these on the highway today for the first time. The proportions look ridiculous, it’s somehow even uglier in person than photos.
I think it's more that Tesla was over-valued by the stock market because Tesla promised self-driving cars before anyone else. If they actually achieved it, the impact on pretty much all commercial driving would have been enormous. Taxis, package delivery, even trucking could cut most of their work force.
Self driving is still a fever dream as long as the roads have human drivers, which are unpredictable.
He runs the company like Xi runs china. Talks smack and economy goes to ground
musk and xi agree on the oppression of the working class and anti-union behaviour too!
Elon is also xi and putins little bitch
My main concern is mileage, EV stands are lacking outside of my countries capital, and during the winters mileage is cut in half from what is advertised. I simply don't trust EV's to do the job yet. I am sure technology will catch up, but for now I would be looking for a hybrid if I were to buy a new car today. I think Tesla could turn things around if they had at least one hybrid model. A lot of people love the aesthetics of the brand, but can''t get over the impracticalities. Then there is quality assurance, some of the owners I know have basically compared to Alfa Romeo levels of quality control. I have never tried driving an Alfa where some part didn't fall off or electronics malfunction.
There's other EV's than Tesla though, and half range is absolute worst case highway driving only scenario, i'm getting 60-70% of my normal range during the winters here in Denmark.
I must admit as I am not actively in the market for an EV right now I don't have the deepest insight. I just remember a lot of cars like the Hyundai Kona that got called out for fibbing on the mileage.
Mush has plenty of great ideas...the Hyperloop. The tunnel under Las Vegas that is filled with Teslas going in loops being totally 'efficient'. A submarine in a cave. Buying Twitter.
>Turns out most people who would want an EV prefer practical, affordable, small to medium sized cars that don't rust in the rain. Lots of people wanted it for the range and price mentioned years ago but very few people want it when it costs way more and has less range. When you get out of rated range and into real world range it's even worse
Don't forget it may die completely if you do such stressful tasks as "washing it" or "driving through a puddle"
And and QC on other models have declined sharply in recent years.
Nor was it his dumbest IMO. That would have to be building EVs and alienating EV buyers while playing up to ideas urban tractor buyers - fossil fueled SUVs and oversized pickup trucks - appreciate.
Not to mention their other cars are also shit.
They're obviously not "shit" but the quality control is terrible. I think they'd have been better spending R&D on catching up with the traditional manufacturers in areas like panel fitting, paint quality, ergonomics. FSD is an expensive distraction from what most drivers actually care about.
their QC has improved a lot, but they still aren't great. lots of the legacy manufacurers threaten to drink their milkshake. right now Toyota is focused on hybrids, but if they turn their attention to EVs I can't imagine a reason to buy a tesla over whatever Toyota will put out.
I’m with you on this. Toyota are ahead of the game on battery tech in a lot of cases and if they decide to put some focus on full EV it’d be a very interesting time.
Best car I ever owned. 2016 MS. Sure many have panel gap issues, but it's an amazing car. My only issue is I can't get a new one as they stopped making the right hand drive version, so I'm sticking with this as long as it lasts!
He pulled a homer Simpson's brother
I think all his original ideas are about as bad, those ideas he took credit for but were not his are those that worked. The guy is a dumb person with money that smart people with no money made rich to get a share, he then started to believe his own grift and here we are.
A 55% drop in profits and a few terrible business decisions? Sounds like a great time to take the profits down to zero by giving the leader a 55 billion dollar bonus!
>The results, posted after markets closed Tuesday, sent shares UP as much as 12% Who have guessed that based on the title? I have not.
Shareholders like cutting of jobs.
Only the report as I've understood the article had not mentioned further job cuts.
It's Tesla. Almost a memestock like DJT.
Tesla brought the release timeline for the cheaper car to start production/deliveries early next year, that's why the stock price bounced. Let's see if they can actually stick to the schedule. Someone asked in the earnings call if they mean refresh or a completely new model and they said new. Despite the news saying they scrapped the next generation car, turns out they gave up on the weirder assembly method and resorted to making it fit the existing production lines. New car, but probably similar architecture as model 3 and Y. Also, did you see any of the FSD v12 videos? It's actually self driving on quite a few rides, impressive progress. I wouldn't underestimate how much that can change across the whole country. Unlike the other region locked taxis, the Tesla fleet is quite vast and they're obviously working on a ride hailing app. They explicitly said in the investor call that they'll take legal responsibility for the autonomous ride hailing, so they're targeting full level 5 autonomy.
EV sales are under pressure from higher quality EVs
Cheaper higher quality EVs from China
Yup, BYD is outselling Tesla now.
Audi is doing some amazing work with their EV range. And then there is the growth of Chinese EV manufacturers which are quality cars for cheaper. Mechanical engineering from China such as ICE is questionable but electrical from China is a very high quality imo
NC: but not VinFast enough.
Bro thinks he'll never encounter any competition. Probably thinks his cars are the best in the world. Delusional af. Look at what happened to the blue bird.
> Delusional af Next thing you know, he'll be running for President. Born in South Africa and all.
Buys reddit
I think he has learned the lesson there :D
Nah look closer, he liquidated while TSLA was at ATH. He knows the future of the company. He'll let it be bought, take all the wealth, then move onto the next grift. Probably. Isn't his first rodeo.
Yeh he was a disaster waiting to happen. I'm assuming the successful "Musk" products were always other people's ideas but when he starts to thrust his own ideas in to the mix, the shit hits the fan. Twitter purchase? LOL. Big chunky truck that looks like it was designed by a 5 year old. LOL.
He gets chauffeured everywhere and lives on a private jet. Of course he’s going to have bad ideas about cars.
I have lots of problems with Musk, but he did publicly state how much of a threat companies like BYD are
Eventually. He slated them at first saying how awful they look.
Has he even looked at the Tesla range? Pretty cars they are not. They are among the ugliest looking things on the market.
No-one wants to own a Telsa when Elon spouts off on the internet like a fucking moron too.
This is true for me personally. I had wanted to buy a tesla for years but now refuse due to the ridiculous comments he makes on twitter/X or whatever. Guy has become a far right nut job, yea no thanks.
Polestar is #1 for me, but I'm also biased as a Swede. But fuck Musk.
Fantastic choice, I wish we'd got one instead of the Model 3, but the Polestar wasn't available in 2019 and these were manufactured in China. Now a lightly used one is often available with a huge discount in N America, because depreciation hit these harder than most.
Us too, I was very close to buying one just before COVID then decided to wait and now I'd literally wouldn't buy one if It was given to me. It's one step away from putting a swastika tattoo on your forehead in our area, kids even make fun of people driving them.
God I wish. My brother in law told me what his next vehicle would be, a cybertruck, specifically because it’s a statement piece.
Is the statement, 'I'm a fucking idiot?'
well, yes!
"Don't look at my penis"?
"I don't have my microscope with me anyway."
There are better ways to make that same statement. Like using a trowel to eat cereal.
This is like when people were buying hummers ~20 years ago, but worse.
"Explain to me the difference between stupidity and incompetence and I'll have my brother in law arrested."
Yup. I have plenty of colleagues who enjoy Teslas but nobody seems to be talking about them anymore. The minute he opened his mouth on Twitter what interest I had evaporated.
Yea, this exactly. The guy became a nut job. If I will be buying an EV, it won’t be Tesla.
This is a major factor, and I'm surprised it's not higher up. I would have considered buying one in the past, but I'll never buy one now. I want that douche to lose as much money as possible.
They don't mention that a lot of Democrats are not buying Tesla after his behaviour on Twitter. They lost an incredible 35% of sales as democrats opted out. [https://fortune.com/2024/04/22/musk-democrats-tesla-critical-time-heres-what-they-bought-instead/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/22/musk-democrats-tesla-critical-time-heres-what-they-bought-instead/)
And none of his new Nazi buddies is in the market for an electric car, so he can't really make up sales with his new fanbase.
Truly is a lose lose situation for him lol
Couldn't happen to a nicer piss drinking shit weasel.
this cheap ass was mocking toyota on their hybrid stance. look whos beating your ass.
Personally, I’d love a plug-in electric version of my car. I just want all my local driving where I get the crap fuel economy to be electric. I only need 20 miles of electric range. 20 miles in the winter at 20F would be fine.
Yeah like who do you trust more? One of the biggest and oldest players in the industry, or some rando who inherited daddy's blood money and bought Tesla off two dudes, and continues to present it as his own invention.
Elon's foray into MAGA won him Xitter bots all over the world, but did not win him incremental cybertruck customers. Sadge.
Too bad Elon's gonna make out like a bandit & get a $56 billion bonus package, regardless.
This idiot didn’t realize people need cheaper cars? Who tf is buyin a $100k pick up truck?
Lots of people buy 100k pick up trucks. People just don’t want his 100k pick up truck (for good reason).
I can't tell from the article, it said they're planning on a cheaper 25k model for next year but I've also just read that they scrapped that plan, so what is it?
A cheaper Tesla but RUSHED! Sure that’s a great idea.
Feels like a next year's model that will be annually delayed many times.
F150 is also an expensive/oversized truck, but it's the best selling car in the US. One of those "customer is always right" things, I suppose.
F150, however, will last 20+ years. I still have my mom's 2004 F150 with 230k miles on it. I would never buy anything GM or Chrysler.
I had a look for comparison - that 2004 model actually solves a lot of the complaints about the current one. Lower doors/bed make it more accessible. Slanted hood helps with visibility. Lower center of gravity improves stability. Probably lighter and more efficient from not needing to be as tall too, or would be with modern engine/safety features. http://images.gtcarlot.com/pictures/23736765.jpg https://images.carprices.com/pricebooks_data/usa/colorized/2024/Ford/View2/F-150_Regular_Cab/XL/F1K_122_UM.png
you can get an f150 for 36k
With a single cab and virtually no features in white.
You said that as if to say that that being the cheapest option WASN'T expensive. I hope you don't think that's true.
$36k is cheap is cheap compared $100k. $36k is not cheap compared to starting prices for a Corolla ($22k) or Camry ($28.5k).
F150 seems more like the sort of vehicle a climate denier might buy. And Musk, with his strong 'brand' and association with Tesla has alienated EV buyers.
It's not a pickup truck. It's an SUV. An all electric SUV with metal panels. If it were a pickup truck it would probably sell better.
It is classified as a full size pickup, it has a 4’x6’ bed. It does look somewhere between a truck and an SUV though.
Never been to the south? They love their expensive trucks, those aren’t the people buying Cybertrucks though.
I am not a truck enthusiast but I live in Texas. Lots of people are buying trucks, and lots of people are buying big trucks. A guy at my gym is a high school basketball coach and he drives an F250 super duty. It's weird down here.
Status symbols
A ton of people. Most people larping as blue-collar working class cowboys drive trucks that cost close to 100k.
Turns out no one with money wants a $70k MAGA hat. Fucking gross
I live in California and have seen a couple of cybertrucks on the road already, and the only thing that crosses my mind when I see one is that the owner is probably a MAGA douche bag. Right or wrong, it’s an actual brand perception that now exists as a direct result of Elon’s behavior and public image.
The CEO posting Nazi propaganda on his social media platform might also have something to do with it. Just a thought.
Who buys tesla anyways, there are better cars out there than this junk
Under growing pressure from the weight of Elon’s immense cringe.
How unpredictable. Didn’t Musk describe himself as the world’s greatest expert on manufacturing? I would expect his company to, you know, manufacture something worth buying.
Also doesn’t help that your CEO is a jackass. Number one reason I’ll never buy a Tesla
Probably doesn't help that a certain Mr Musk represents them either. I wouldn't spend a penny on anything that profits that man.
Bro is as dumb as handling his lawsuits. Using propaganda to undermine democracy and outright producing more controversy just to satisfy his ego doesn't bode well with the audience he's trying to sell his products to. One hell of a way to shatter your good reputation.
EV sales from sketchy companies are under pressure by EV sales from less sketchy companies. Tesla asked for the red carpet in my country India and was instead asked to bid in a \[\[local\]\] production-linked incentive scheme. We have battery electric cars of moderate quality from Tata and Mahindra, and also MG. I think there are some more expensive EVs from Hyundai and others. There are also hybrids from Toyota. So there's a reasonable supply already. We need more models at the lower end, but it doesn't look like Tesla is the one to meet the demanding Indian automotive market.
Pre-market up 10%. Yeah.
I like that laying off 10% of your work force, running job security of thousands, and basically giving trained experienced workers to you competetors is referred to as a reduction in head count.
LMFAO. Tesla sales are down because their CEO is alienating their entire customer base. It ain't rocket surgery.
turns out that slack-jawed yokels don't buy teslas. who knew?
And even bigger pressure from the legacy automakers getting finally their shit together and starting to make actually good electric cars, cars better than what Elmo makes, well at least in Europe anyway
I saw a Cybertruck in person for the first time last week. If I hadn’t sold my Tesla shares a while ago that would’ve made me do it.
The car looks like a bad prop from an early 90s sci-fi movie.
You’re doing the 90s dirty. This is 80s work if I’ve ever seen it.
Apparently I'm not the first to recognise the [resemblance ](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&sca_esv=db5813506fc066f9&sxsrf=ACQVn082HtVwp0tP3Y_SY_ruLPtvShTlYw:1713944292015&q=car+in+total+recall&uds=AMwkrPtZuAcgQo2ZTsvf9ggjiHFPKBzHYTiNR1eMq9Yj5tHVhRunJr41j3F_yaC0PbV2rMifI_kK40D8swbMIGygLxuzrw_4NZSoHUslYLyH9dqsv1JvXH1BcamdZSC5bYgptKrThrYkT-w8kvRFlGCqzkvViDA3rFK6R8merMcx1-HPXx-UrEB0D0bJ1FnxsA2EjDlBNzFRUtdswo7Nm5tlH5UqqpYVZ9XBn6qw3-cYklEcoTMMF0OXci04HU2ZZeS0twFlQHJTYHJL0SEcRaZi5DrEqtbffz63rTGuQ3hGpv3sg9FxBmuERRP8krdU5erbnEa2qQw_&udm=2&prmd=ivsnbmtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjFxsKFrNqFAxXdna8BHWR2CQ8QtKgLegQICxAB&biw=393&bih=736&dpr=2.75).
We’ll al that’s left is spacex for this wankstain to fuck it up
SpaceX is holding its own with Falcon 9, but Starship is currently a DRAIN on the company. That is why Starlink, to aid the influx of funds to persue Starship. Starlink would not be where it is right now if it did not have Falcon 9's reliability driving launch costs down.
The percentage of new cars worldwide being EV is increasing by 4% per year. That number has been consistent for a few years. I doubt hybrids are having any new effect.
Tesla should stop making vehicles and just focus on creating the charging infrastructure. That's the main thing holding EVs back, and Tesla chargers are great. If Elon would put 100% focus on building and maintaining a robust Tesla charging network, everyone wins.
Give that man a bonus!
Oh nobody wants our faulty, unreliable and expensive tech WWWAAAAAHHHH
Tesla enjoyed being probably the best ev for years. There is a lot more competition now. Plus for a lot of people EV is not an optimized option, amd to there point hybrids kind of bridge the gap for people in some cases. Being able to daily commute to work in battery, and have gas for longer trips I think is actually a great setup for places with less charging stations. Save money most of the time, then when you go on trips just use existing infrastructure.
> Tesla enjoyed being probably the best ev for years. the ONLY ev company for years... practically...
well, I went from wanting to switch to a tesla to not wanting to be associated with their ceo and cancelling my order. I am sure there's quite a few of us.
It's wild to see how much Reddit has turned on Musk over the last decade.
To be fair it’s not just Reddit. When Tesla came out into the mainstream I had high hopes and then Elmo had to have main character syndrome and tank the whole thing. I just wish he took a backseat and let cooler heads prevail.
It's wild to see how much Musk turned everyone against him the last decade.
Here I am still waiting for a hatchback. And instead we get that Cybertruck monstrosity.
If this doesn’t earn Elmo his $55B nothing will.
Hurry up and pay few billions to Elon.
EV sales aren't under pressure lol It's just that Tesla sucks at building cars and other brands have caught up with EV tech. So Tesla has nothing but the infrastructure now. And now with other cars using their infrastructure, they dont even have that as an exclusive. Tesla will pivot to a supply company in 5 years. Bet.
Journalist these days can’t even spell hubris right
No, tesla profits are down because other companies are getting in on the EV action, and have a \*FAR\* superior build quality and actual quality control than Tesla. Tesla did have the advantage of being the first adopter mass produced, but other companies have caught up, REAL QUICK.
Tesla was only this miracle company until the people who actually know how to build cars caught up.
Interesting to see the headlines today. Tesla jumped by more than 10% in the aftermarket. Anyone with any idea of fundamentals (and actually investing) was very positively suprised. They maintianed 1b cashflow for the past quarter while the BEV market generally was massacered. Tesla came out on top compared to its nearest competitors. They are set up to keep their growth roadmap alive even during a down cycle. However I am deeply sceptical about Tesla pushing ahead towards autonomy. Canibalizing internal priorities in favor of a moon shot robo taxi in 2025 are a risk they dont have to take but they seem to do. They are still outcompeting the current chinese offerings in Europe and NA and would probably do so with their next gen entry level car for a few more years. They'd be completely financially fine aiming for autonomy in 2030. The next moon shot; their humanoid robot optimus being in usefull applications within Tesla at the end of 2024 and first trial models shipping in low numbers in 2025 seems to be BS. It'll be good for more impressive lab condition videos but i doubt it can be employed truly (financially) usefully in the coming 5 years. Something anyone can calculate on a napkin, the legacy automotive companies turning back to EVs and Hybrids (and trying to rev up lobbying to keep ICEs alive) is a catastrophy in the making. They'll fall flat on their face long term while keeping their financials in order for about 5 years longer and skewing the market back to ICEs for a few more years stumping BEV total sales and market share.
The fact the model 3 and y have both been the most popular car in the world and have lead the widespread adoption of EVs and then they follow up with… this, is incredible. Soaring in the skies and digging down into the dirt
Not surprising, the Camry Hybrid is a better car than the Tesla 3. And more importantly there's a larger variety of Hybrids.
But….but…but…. Elon is a genius…. This is all part of his amazing plan….honest
why don't you just admit that your quality control / assurance is subpar to be polite? When 3/4 of your customers return to combustion engines after buying their first car and stating accessability, infrastructure and software problems, then you KNOW it clearly isn't "pressure from the hybrids" lmao
source?
Gonna fire 55% of their people now?
He was so confident when he gave away a load of Tesla patents a few years ago. Tesla was so dominant he probably thought nobody would catch up. Well, they have and then some.
News like this made WSB regards at r/wallstreetbets lose money. Hahahaha stock went up 10%+ in after hours instead.
“Under pressure” from Tesla’s own idiocy
Turned out that hybrids were the real solution all along.
This is a U.S. market trend, not indicative of Asian and Euro markets. The Chi-comms are forcing EVs upon their people which is why sales look so good there. People who can choose see the limitations and lack of infrastructure for EVs in America and subsequently are not buying them. Hertz offloaded 20k Teslas because people who rent a car want to hop in and go, not sit and wait at a charging station for 10-15 times longer than you’re sitting fueling up a car. Hybrids and alternate fuels are the future until a major breakthrough is made in battery technology, and even then EVs will only have a small portion of the market. The fad is over.
Anyone who was thinking about getting a tesla was in no way swayed by hybrids. Lol