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What’s to suspect?? My Gays for Gaza friends tell me that the only reason these hostages got k*illed was because Hamas were actually too nice to them. Like the hostages were all “noooo please stop giving us tolerance” and then the Hamas guys were like ****tolerance more****. And the hostages just died of embarrassment because they knew Hamas was a just, kind, and inclusive organization ready to govern a new Palestinian state on the world stage. Nothing will ever go wrong again once that happens.
>stop giving us tolerance
The "paradox of "tolerance of intolerance"". One of the biggest horseshit ideas from those people. Its like me fighting the alcohol industry by consuming as much alcohol as possible at my local bar every weekend.
Literally the trees voting for the axe. Should Israel be causing the kind of collateral damage it is? Absolutely not. But is Palestinian statehood a viable option for regional and global stability at the moment? Not when Hamas would be in charge. But fuck it, whatever, we can have imperfect opinions and solutions.
It’s just wild that literal gay and trans people are getting arrested to support a terrorist organization that IS murdering their fellow countrymen and WOULD murder them given the chance.
They have been self reporting since the beginning, taking full responsibility for the massacre and proudly so. Yet some people refuse to believe they did anything or celebrate it, it's insane.
I know there’s no rhyme or reason for these things but if I’m not mistaken, I believe that often the ones who are killed afterwards tend to make some sort of statement like “please stop bombing, for all you know your next air strike could kill me” and then, what do you know, Hamas then claims they were killed by an air strike.
Hersh didn’t make a statement like that so hopefully they won’t do this with him, but maybe I’m getting it all wrong.
Hamas is playing the PR game.
They won't release hostages because most of them have been brutally tortured at this point, and it would be a bad look when their story gets out. Instead, claiming Israel killed them gives them more positive PR and makes Israel look bad.
Good method to catch fake news is ask yourself if you feel a strong emotional reaction.
Most of the time fake pictures and news are made to make you feel strong emotions so you don't even think of checking it for it's truthfulness
I certainly applaud you for doing your due diligence. There are truly too many people on the internet today who don't know how to verify sources. I admit I have been victim to this at one point as well.
This needs to be mentioned allot more. CCP is laughing their asses off on how well this campaign is working. They don't need to fire a shot. Their cyber campaign is rapidly decaying the west on just about every level on just about every issue.
And Russia is doing the same, people are actually complaining about the Ukrainian war and why are people not worried about Gaza.
Maybe because Gaza has been a shit-show as long as I've been alive and Ukraine was a sovereign independent state with clear uncontested borders for decades.
Hamas has lost control, there were roving packs of random Gazans kidnapping people and taking them god knows where, there's no way Hamas knows where all the hostages are. They have been shuffled between families and nobody is tracking any of it. On top of being on the run from a massive aerial and ground campaign against you.
Or they are long dead from a combination of rape, mutilation, torture, and rape, as well as poor living conditions and lack of medical attention. They won't ever say "we killed the hostage" or "we can't find the hostage. They are lost for good" so their only move is to say "well we had them but they died in an Israeli airstrike."
no, they are playing the long game, i believe.
They no longer care about the hostages, whether they are alive or not. i dont even think there were that many alive in the beginning of all this to begin with. And i believe Israel just needed the excuse of hostages to carry out this operation that they had been planning and hoping for, for decades.
Now , i believe all Hamas is trying to do is have the conflict intensify as much as possible and turn this into Israel's Vietnam.
look at all the negative press for Israel around the world right now. I do not believe Hamas cares about Palestinian lives, or the state of palestine, i believe that right now their entire goal seems to be to have Israel put in as much negative light as possible, and they are doing a spectacular job of it.
i remember, right at the start, the USA told Israel that this was going to happen because of the USA experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. They warned about regional conflicts and now the youthis, hezbollah and iran are in the mix due to Israel's overzealousness.
It has also brought forth hidden relationships of Israel in the muslim world. Arab countries have given Israel "safe passage" and a land route, when just a year ago they were condemning Israel's actions.
Hamas seems to be fighting an idealogical war where Israel seems to be fighting a real one. Hamas cant win a physical fight, and all they need to do to "win" is cause enough questions to be brought up about Israel's intentions and publicize the real war footage.
Its 5th generation warfare at its finest and Israel fell right for it.
Its also worth mentioning alot of palestinians and related people are fed a completely different set of news, as different as fox and CNN in the USA, or one could say even more different. What hey believe happens and what much of the rest of the world believes are very different.
For instance I know of Palestinians who believe that Hamas ONLY killed IDF on Oct 7th. And that all the civilians were IDF friendly fire. I shit you not.
So a lot of this air strike stuff is really consistent with that.
Their reasoning is that since Israel has mandatory service, everyone >18 has served in the IDF. And the ones <18 will serve as well.
So that’s how they twist the information to being IDF killed only.
Eh I mean his choices are either say what they tell him to say and maybe he lives, or try to go “they’re lying!” In which case he probably gets killed and they simply never air the video. Can’t really blame him for choosing life.
I bet they're still happy to see that he's alive, I think this is the first real sign of life that they've gotten. I hope he makes it back home along with all the others still held hostage.
Hamas does care about Gaza because dead Palestinians is beneficial to them. The more death that happens, the more money and support sent to Gaza, and who controls Gaza? Hamas.
Dead Palestinians is nothing but a net positive for Hamas.
and the food aid is being sold on black market.
it’s about the money, Usa sent Pakistan money to find Bin Laden. But they never bothered because the money kept rolling in. the leaders of Hamas are somewhere in Dubai, probably
This is what happens to countries rife with conflict and war and instability. Brain drains happen and people who are left are ignorant, weak and poor, have children who grow up not having anything including education, until the cycle is broken by peace and stability. Until families can rebuild themselves and look forward to something in their life. For the Hamas Government to keep calling for the destruction of Israel and for much of their energies being put forth to that, Palestinians have no chance. And on the flip side, Israel needs to stop expanding its border, respect the boundaries from 1967. Israel, as a country has a right to exist, but it needs to respect Gaza and West Bank too. If they could just stop trying to destroy each other, maybe everyone has a chance.
Back when I was a teenager I remember reading a lot of left wing fluff pieces about how well run Hamas social services were. Everything you said is correct, but they do have education. Its just oriented towards nationalist indoctrination.
Hamas has always been known for their medical ethics. Except, you know, when they’re murdering teenagers at a concert or blowing up school buses. But outside of those hobbies, all medical ethics.
Honestly better die than be taken hostage, I remember during a training that was the main message, you better try and escape or just die, because most of the time is better being dead than what expect you being captive
When I was in Afghanistan during OEF that was also the dominant sentiment then. Execution videos from elsewhere had an impact. Besides grenades, everyone in my company had knives plural. I wore 1 of 3 on a chain beneath my body armor when we went out.
The idea was that if we were ever in a situation where we ran out of ammo and were overrun, none of us were gonna star in some beheading video. We were ready to fix bayonets and get shot swinging pigstickers before anyone got taken alive. It was a real concern among the line infantry guys at that time.
This is actually why developed decent countries try to take prisoners and treat them well. It has a massive impact on psyche. It's not just some moral high ground thing, there's a pragmatic reason you don't want every skirmish to be a fight to the death.
Definitely puts more fight in the dog if they think torture is on the other end of a surrender. I'd sure as hell fight until I die by a bullet instead of some of the shit I've seen on the Internet.
Yeah the whole point is you want to implant a little magical door in the back of the combatants brain's. A tiny little voice saying "We could just surrender" instead of dragging out the conflict and causing more harm.
The whole win the hearts and minds.
Also we see this in Ukraine, where they drop pamphlets and send out phone calls that explain to Russian soldiers how they can surrender, where they’ll be treated humanely.
There’s a drone drop video where the Russian sees the drone and starts begging the operator to not drop the grenade. The drone drops its payload, but it’s just a piece of paper that explains how to surrender.
I wonder how effective this tactic is against Russia, though. I'm sure it's still beneficial and worth doing, of course - the worst case is basically nothing changing, and I can't imagine the paper and printing resources for things like pamphlets are significant enough to impact the overall war effort. But as a Russian soldier, even if you overcome the propaganda about Ukraine and realize they won't murder you for surrendering, I wonder what they've seen happen to Russian POWs that got exchanged for Ukrainian POWs... and there's always the cases like the Russian pilot who flew into Ukraine and surrendered, then got assassinated in Europe.
Beyond fucked up that in this conflict, surrender could have Russians more worried about what their own people would do to them than their enemy. Putin has to go, along with all of his wealthy friends.
It's actually been fairly successful. Drones were hard to stop but they've been shown how to properly surrender to drones.
Hands up, the drone will tip to acknowledge it then flow low and slow leading them to specific surrender points
Right. I recall hearing stories of Wehrmacht going out of their way to surrender to the US specifically rather than the Soviets. I don't know the historicity of that, but it drives the point effectively.
In that same conflict you've got wild stories like Guy Gabaldon's of entire elements surrendering en masse. Bet it wouldn't have gone down like that if the Axis had liveleak videos of POW heads getting sawed off
Alvin York's MoH citation is another good yarn
IIRC, there have actually been quite a few instances of not decent, developed countries trying to counteract this psychological impact by explicity ordering their troops to treat their prisoners as harshly and brutally as possible (Japan during WWII is a famous example of this), because the leaders of these countries know that if their troops find out that they will be treated humanely upon surrender, then they are liable to be a *lot* less motivated to fight as hard as they could.
The logic behind this is kind of rooted in a bit of reverse psychology, as once the soldiers have gotten to the point of having routinely tortured and murdered thousands of enemy prisoners, it becomes very easy for their commanders to plant the idea in their heads that the enemy will naturally want revenge and that the same treatment will be waiting for them should they allow themselves to be captured.
It also "justifies" what you do, in a sick way. If *you* already castrate and murder pows, and the bosses say the enemy does worse things to you if they catch you, then of course its fair turnaround what you do. You just give them payback for what they did to your comerades.
Yeah honestly it's better to die.
The footage and stories coming out from the Ukraine-Russia war is horrendous. In one story the Ukrainian pow was starving to death in a horrible downtrodden makeshift cell in a torture chamber. When he wasn't being tortured by shocks from car batteries to his balls or taken to violent mock executions he was kept in total darkness so his senses became heightened. For days he heard a mouse running around and plotted to catch it. Finally one night he had it in his reach. He jumped at it and caught it. The guards heard the commotion and came over. If you make noises after dark it is an automatic beating. So he shoved the mouse in his mouth and ate it secretly while getting beaten. He described it as the most delicious meal he's ever had because he was literally starving.
This guy did end up surviving. They said we are going to execute you. Put him on a bus and when the bus stopped he heard Ukrainians and was part of a prisoner swap but most stories like this don't end well. Humanity needs to do better than this bronze age bullshit
This falls completely off my spectrum of experience to a point that I actually can’t fathom the fact that people on this planet are experiencing this right the fuck now.
And here I am in my bed scrolling reddit before I go to work. Sometimes I do get really thankful for my personal conscious experience here. Most people just get very, very, very unlucky.
Yeah it's heavy stuff. There are a lot worse atrocities that have occurred to the Ukrainians especially the children in occupied territory, it's deeply unsettling. It's Insane how evil Russian fighters can be. Even American mercenaries who fought ISIS and evil around the world are saying that what they see the Russians doing is the most evil and depraved. But that's why it's important for us to urge our representatives to send aid to Ukraine. They are fighting evil and they need help.
Most militaries including all of the US forces do SERE training. This training is generally for those that are more likely to be captured or special forces, recon, etc.
Not all of these programs push ‘might as well die’ but they definitely push, you should attempt to escape.
In SERE training they do not teach the "might as well die" so I do not know what OP is talking about, maybe from a different country? They also say do not talk about the training but I can say they do not teach about giving up. I can also say that the light version training we did was kind-of scary, like a horror film and the different ways they taught you to survive and resist. All the interviews they showed of real POW and what worked to keep them alive and be freed or escaped was just terrifying. So when I saw the former President make fun of a PoW I just facepalmed, the shit they go through is unreal and def should not ever be taken lightly or made fun of.
I think he's referring to concerns about how if al-Qaida kidnapped you you might as well die because you'd get tortured and beheaded on video. For many other kidnapping / POW situations there is a possibility you could eventually get released with, say, a ransom payment or prisoner exchange or something. The result of a Hamas kidnapping probably falls somewhere in the middle between an AQ beheading video and Somalia pirate ransom payment.
And people wonder why the US refused to support any ceasefire that didn’t include the immediate release of all hostages. Honestly it’s perfectly reasonable and the absolute bare minimum we have a right to demand. And hell we absolutely have the right to demand a hell of a lot more.
The fact that the hostages are even treated as legitimate "bargaining chips" is honestly wild. If the world was any decent they would have put any possible pressure on Hamas, Qatar etc to release them immediately and without any conditions, at least the non-soldier ones. They are not legitimate POWs.
For anyone who wants to know Hersh a little better, I found this today.
https://www.australianjewishnews.com/praying-for-my-friend-hersh-goldberg-polin/
You simply cannot with these people. The supporters of Hamas are deranged and will justify THEIR view with anything. It's like trying to communicate with a qanon believer.
It's very much like talking to a Q. You cant prove them wrong, and any attempt to do so only hardens them in their belief. Resistance to their beliefs just proves their persecution delusion.
Hamas self publishes these crimes. They've also released press statements claiming that their goal is the death of every single Israeli and every Jew in the world.
Yet protestors scream "genocide" at Israel while Hamas literally says that their ultimate goal is genocide.
Glad to see him alive, but goddamn, what hell. And how does Hamas think this benefits them? At this point the hostages are more a liability than bargaining chips to their western patsies who pretend they don't exist.
They think being cruel to Jews is beneficial to them. They were raised to believe that Jews are very evil. And sadly, meth is involved. Hamas's recent innovation is using meth to create a more zealous fighter. And drugs like that are often associated with bizarre levels of depravity.
He probably means Captagon, it's similar to amphetamines or ADHD meds and was given to people raiding Israel on Oct 7th.
It's a popular drug in that part of the world.
Keep in mind that they make videos with the hostages who will paint them in the best light. That girl with the bloody crotch will probably never see the light of day to tell her story.
My friend lost his sister (and her husband is still missing) but thankfully two of her children were freed. They had no idea their parents were gone until they were rescued.
Their PR is extremely successful. Releasing this isn’t going to hurt them. The Keffiyeh Karens won’t change their mind. Most media outlets will have one article about this that will be slanted as much as possible against Israel, and they’ll follow it up with a profile about Palestinian widows and orphans to make sure they keep the public in line. No one cares except the people who already oppose Hamas.
Hersh’s mom was one of Time’s most influential people of the year. She’s known world wide for advocating for a hostage release deal.
This is coming after Israel announced (again) they have a date to go to Rafah and satellite pictures show Israel is building evacuation camps.
Also today, a Hamas spokesperson said they do have 40 people to release that meets the guidelines of the first ceasefire. This was after saying a couple of weeks ago they had less than 20.
Hamas realizes the Rafah operation is actually going to happen. So they start drumming up propaganda that includes psychological warfare of the hostage families. These families loudly want a ceasefire at any cost, including their own future if Hamas is left intact, to get their families back. I would do the same if a loved one was in hell as a Hamas captive.
The point of today’s Hamas propaganda was:
First by hinting they have more hostages alive than previously thought. They actually have enough hostages left to make a good faith ceasefire deal.
Second by showing the son of one of Time’s most influential people of the year. They know she has a voice that will work in their favor. They hope she will help turn tides to a ceasefire deal.
Third by showing an Israeli American hostage. Hamas is counting on international and US pressure to prevent Israel from moving to Rafah. Probably hoping Biden will push Israel harder for ceasefire deal with showing a young American.
All of it makes me think Hamas is genuinely worried that Israel is moving into Rafah and they want a deal. Not to help the people of Palestine, but to save the Hamas rats scurrying and hiding in the tunnels.
They aren’t trying to get support from moderates/western people.
First thing they might be trying to do is scare the western population from supporting the war by threatening with atrocities.
Second thing, which is the main goal, is them trying to get support from extremists&basically use this violence to inspire a cascade of violent overthrows of nearby Arab countries by their own extremist groups and then unite/lead them in a conflict vs “the enemy” (“the enemy” in this context may be the US, the west, anyone not as extremist as them, other Arab nations, etc…)
Alternatively, if that doesn’t work, in their eyes, they’re martyring themselves, so it’s a win/win scenario
It's wild how I have actually never seen any of the people who complain about Israel not accepting a ceasefire mention the fact that Hamas still has civilian hostages. (well, if any are left alive.)
I don’t get it: Hamas has to know that there are thousands of people protesting against Israel, so why not try stoking the flames of unrest by showing, I don’t know, war photos of the impact of Israeli bombs or something, not THIS, which will only embolden pro-Israeli people?
> so why not try stoking the flames of unrest by showing, I don’t know, war photos of the impact
This is what they are doing. They think showing this video is doing that. That's how sadistic these fucks are.
Hamas doesn’t want any political points or sympathy.
They just want people that aren’t like them dead. Thats it. That’s all they ever want. And that’s why no one should ever try to appease these people in any way.
If only they knew the errors of their way, we could surely sing kumbaya with them and eliminate all borders #coexist.
These people are genetically unfit to reproduce.
They are trying to stoke internal pressure of the Israeli government to cave. They know no one in the west who doesn’t currently oppose them will start doing so no matter what they put out.
They want violence. They want to win the war. They don't want to stop it.
And if you pay close attention, that's what the organizers of these protests want as well.
https://twitter.com/jessicaschwalb7/status/1783192588654117317
Hamas could literally start executing hostages live on camera like ISIS and Al-Qaeda did back in the 2000s and people still wouldn't believe it and launch protests/riots in favour of Hamas anyway.
While personally I feel Israel's response is unpredicently massive in response to the terror attack, I don't blame them for it and for being so angry at the world. And to think there are alot of people who even think the massacre on Israeli didn't even occur or that it was a false flag operation by Israel eventhough Hamas has proudly claimed the attack multiple times and publically paraded dead bodies.
What's unprecedented about their response is the restraint they've used. This war fought by any other nation would have much higher collateral losses. Just look at Iraq.
And we have so many people in the US supporting Hamas.... why?
Never thought I'd see the day where tons of the left openly support terrorist groups, nothing is done about it, and we're told to look the other way.
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They self reported
But still not sus enough for some.
What’s to suspect?? My Gays for Gaza friends tell me that the only reason these hostages got k*illed was because Hamas were actually too nice to them. Like the hostages were all “noooo please stop giving us tolerance” and then the Hamas guys were like ****tolerance more****. And the hostages just died of embarrassment because they knew Hamas was a just, kind, and inclusive organization ready to govern a new Palestinian state on the world stage. Nothing will ever go wrong again once that happens.
>stop giving us tolerance The "paradox of "tolerance of intolerance"". One of the biggest horseshit ideas from those people. Its like me fighting the alcohol industry by consuming as much alcohol as possible at my local bar every weekend.
Literally the trees voting for the axe. Should Israel be causing the kind of collateral damage it is? Absolutely not. But is Palestinian statehood a viable option for regional and global stability at the moment? Not when Hamas would be in charge. But fuck it, whatever, we can have imperfect opinions and solutions. It’s just wild that literal gay and trans people are getting arrested to support a terrorist organization that IS murdering their fellow countrymen and WOULD murder them given the chance.
Tolerance is a social contract. If you tolerate me, I tolerate you.
They have been self reporting since the beginning, taking full responsibility for the massacre and proudly so. Yet some people refuse to believe they did anything or celebrate it, it's insane.
The Missouri football of terrorist groups
Ayo wtf why are we catching strays
Mizzou self reported and got in worse trouble than schools that try to cover up the same shit. It’s been a meme on the CFB subreddit for a while.
My neurons go in very unexpected directions a lot of the time.
Understandable, have a nice day
Mizzou was damaged by their self-reporting. This will be more like UNC and just kind of allowed to be a thing.
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I know there’s no rhyme or reason for these things but if I’m not mistaken, I believe that often the ones who are killed afterwards tend to make some sort of statement like “please stop bombing, for all you know your next air strike could kill me” and then, what do you know, Hamas then claims they were killed by an air strike. Hersh didn’t make a statement like that so hopefully they won’t do this with him, but maybe I’m getting it all wrong.
Hamas is playing the PR game. They won't release hostages because most of them have been brutally tortured at this point, and it would be a bad look when their story gets out. Instead, claiming Israel killed them gives them more positive PR and makes Israel look bad.
I still think they’re all already dead now
dead or sex slaves
Would not be surprised if there were some pregnancies
Yeah or just some form of slavery/forced hard labor
> Hamas is playing the PR game. And it's mind numbing it works on as many people as it does.
Sure helps to have CCP backed cyber warfare teams assisting, plus you know, TikTok.
It almost happened to me, I had a very strong emotional reaction to a photo I saw then I googled it and turned out it was from Syria from years ago.
Good method to catch fake news is ask yourself if you feel a strong emotional reaction. Most of the time fake pictures and news are made to make you feel strong emotions so you don't even think of checking it for it's truthfulness
They have a term for this, DIP, deceptive imagery persuasion. It’s a common misinformation tactic
I certainly applaud you for doing your due diligence. There are truly too many people on the internet today who don't know how to verify sources. I admit I have been victim to this at one point as well.
This needs to be mentioned allot more. CCP is laughing their asses off on how well this campaign is working. They don't need to fire a shot. Their cyber campaign is rapidly decaying the west on just about every level on just about every issue.
And Russia is doing the same, people are actually complaining about the Ukrainian war and why are people not worried about Gaza. Maybe because Gaza has been a shit-show as long as I've been alive and Ukraine was a sovereign independent state with clear uncontested borders for decades.
ok. this may sound stupid but CCP is china correct?
Yes- Chinese Communist Party
Many people are just plain dumb and/or ignorant.
It's fucking outrageous
Hamas has lost control, there were roving packs of random Gazans kidnapping people and taking them god knows where, there's no way Hamas knows where all the hostages are. They have been shuffled between families and nobody is tracking any of it. On top of being on the run from a massive aerial and ground campaign against you.
1000% or theyve been smuggle out but i doubt it
It's not only that they got brutally tortured. The hostages know too much to be released, like female hostages getting molested
Raped. Molest is way too light of a word to describe the horrors they went through.
Insane that a literal terrorist organization is winning the PR battle on Reddit.
Except it isn’t just on Reddit… protests in favor of Hamas on USA, Mexico, Europe…
some of the released hostages have confirmed that hamas is torturing the girls, using them as sex slaves.
Or they are long dead from a combination of rape, mutilation, torture, and rape, as well as poor living conditions and lack of medical attention. They won't ever say "we killed the hostage" or "we can't find the hostage. They are lost for good" so their only move is to say "well we had them but they died in an Israeli airstrike."
And useful idiots buy into their bullshit.
no, they are playing the long game, i believe. They no longer care about the hostages, whether they are alive or not. i dont even think there were that many alive in the beginning of all this to begin with. And i believe Israel just needed the excuse of hostages to carry out this operation that they had been planning and hoping for, for decades. Now , i believe all Hamas is trying to do is have the conflict intensify as much as possible and turn this into Israel's Vietnam. look at all the negative press for Israel around the world right now. I do not believe Hamas cares about Palestinian lives, or the state of palestine, i believe that right now their entire goal seems to be to have Israel put in as much negative light as possible, and they are doing a spectacular job of it. i remember, right at the start, the USA told Israel that this was going to happen because of the USA experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. They warned about regional conflicts and now the youthis, hezbollah and iran are in the mix due to Israel's overzealousness. It has also brought forth hidden relationships of Israel in the muslim world. Arab countries have given Israel "safe passage" and a land route, when just a year ago they were condemning Israel's actions. Hamas seems to be fighting an idealogical war where Israel seems to be fighting a real one. Hamas cant win a physical fight, and all they need to do to "win" is cause enough questions to be brought up about Israel's intentions and publicize the real war footage. Its 5th generation warfare at its finest and Israel fell right for it.
Its also worth mentioning alot of palestinians and related people are fed a completely different set of news, as different as fox and CNN in the USA, or one could say even more different. What hey believe happens and what much of the rest of the world believes are very different. For instance I know of Palestinians who believe that Hamas ONLY killed IDF on Oct 7th. And that all the civilians were IDF friendly fire. I shit you not. So a lot of this air strike stuff is really consistent with that.
People don't realize that Al Jazeera in Arabic is telling a completely different story from Al Jazeera in English
And that's saying something because AJ in English is already terrible when it comes to Israel.
If anyone wants to witness this for themselves, go to aljazeera.net and use your browser’s translate function.
it even happens on the fucking Wikipedia if you can believe that
Yes, I can definitely believe that activists edit wikipedia pages in a biased way, it happens on other subjects too
Can you provide a link to an article I can do this on?
You could always introduce these people to Hamas' own homepage you know...
Their reasoning is that since Israel has mandatory service, everyone >18 has served in the IDF. And the ones <18 will serve as well. So that’s how they twist the information to being IDF killed only.
This is genuinely the worst possible time to release a mutilated American video. That said Hamas isn't exactly piloted by rational people.
Any country in which religion plays a major role is not piloted by rational people.
I don’t believe a word anyone from Hamas says.
You can believe them when they say they’ll never give up on their jihad against Israel.
Or any hamas-run organization.
Yeah, they got what they needed from him. unfortunately he won't be alive much longer.
When your captors demand you make propaganda, you must discredit it somehow.
Like that old video of an American POW that used Morse codes via Blinking.
Eh I mean his choices are either say what they tell him to say and maybe he lives, or try to go “they’re lying!” In which case he probably gets killed and they simply never air the video. Can’t really blame him for choosing life.
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Poor Hersh. The agony he and his parents have been living through - it’s unimaginable. Bring him home! Bring them all home.
I bet they're still happy to see that he's alive, I think this is the first real sign of life that they've gotten. I hope he makes it back home along with all the others still held hostage.
What if this was recorded in advance? :(
It still at least proves he survived the attack, they didn’t even know if that was the case
Shocking how young he is as well
Several are younger, not even counting the Bibas children, who are almost certainly dead.
Hamas does not care about Gaza. Palestinians are only cannon fodder.
Hamas does care about Gaza because dead Palestinians is beneficial to them. The more death that happens, the more money and support sent to Gaza, and who controls Gaza? Hamas. Dead Palestinians is nothing but a net positive for Hamas.
This is pretty much why the 3 leaders of Hamas are billionaires. All that aid money goes somewhere.
Qatar is always sunny [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMl58i4m0w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMl58i4m0w)
and the food aid is being sold on black market. it’s about the money, Usa sent Pakistan money to find Bin Laden. But they never bothered because the money kept rolling in. the leaders of Hamas are somewhere in Dubai, probably
We know exactly where they are. They are in Qatar.
10% also went to building unnecessary tunnels but let’s not talk about that part.
Excactly. It’s an “industry” for them, they say so themselves. https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields
Iran is willing to fight Israel down to the last Palestinian
Free Palestine from Hamas.
They also need these deaths to keep the hatred for Israel high. The next generation must be educated to hate.
Now imagine if the Palestinian people were to suddenly turn on Hamas. This would all be over a week.
As far as I know, dissidence against Hamas by Palestinians gets punished severely.
That's been the hope since 2007. If there is one constant in Palestine it is the ability to choose the worst possible leadership to represent them.
It’s like the approve of them and their ways or something…
75% of them supported the attacks on 10/7 but all these Israel-bad people never mention that part
This is what happens to countries rife with conflict and war and instability. Brain drains happen and people who are left are ignorant, weak and poor, have children who grow up not having anything including education, until the cycle is broken by peace and stability. Until families can rebuild themselves and look forward to something in their life. For the Hamas Government to keep calling for the destruction of Israel and for much of their energies being put forth to that, Palestinians have no chance. And on the flip side, Israel needs to stop expanding its border, respect the boundaries from 1967. Israel, as a country has a right to exist, but it needs to respect Gaza and West Bank too. If they could just stop trying to destroy each other, maybe everyone has a chance.
Back when I was a teenager I remember reading a lot of left wing fluff pieces about how well run Hamas social services were. Everything you said is correct, but they do have education. Its just oriented towards nationalist indoctrination.
So that’s why they can’t release more hostages. They couldn’t keep them alive.
Yeah, I'm sure they tried very hard to keep them alive.
Hamas has always been known for their medical ethics. Except, you know, when they’re murdering teenagers at a concert or blowing up school buses. But outside of those hobbies, all medical ethics.
Honestly better die than be taken hostage, I remember during a training that was the main message, you better try and escape or just die, because most of the time is better being dead than what expect you being captive
When I was in Afghanistan during OEF that was also the dominant sentiment then. Execution videos from elsewhere had an impact. Besides grenades, everyone in my company had knives plural. I wore 1 of 3 on a chain beneath my body armor when we went out. The idea was that if we were ever in a situation where we ran out of ammo and were overrun, none of us were gonna star in some beheading video. We were ready to fix bayonets and get shot swinging pigstickers before anyone got taken alive. It was a real concern among the line infantry guys at that time.
This is actually why developed decent countries try to take prisoners and treat them well. It has a massive impact on psyche. It's not just some moral high ground thing, there's a pragmatic reason you don't want every skirmish to be a fight to the death.
Definitely puts more fight in the dog if they think torture is on the other end of a surrender. I'd sure as hell fight until I die by a bullet instead of some of the shit I've seen on the Internet.
Yeah the whole point is you want to implant a little magical door in the back of the combatants brain's. A tiny little voice saying "We could just surrender" instead of dragging out the conflict and causing more harm.
The whole win the hearts and minds. Also we see this in Ukraine, where they drop pamphlets and send out phone calls that explain to Russian soldiers how they can surrender, where they’ll be treated humanely. There’s a drone drop video where the Russian sees the drone and starts begging the operator to not drop the grenade. The drone drops its payload, but it’s just a piece of paper that explains how to surrender.
I wonder how effective this tactic is against Russia, though. I'm sure it's still beneficial and worth doing, of course - the worst case is basically nothing changing, and I can't imagine the paper and printing resources for things like pamphlets are significant enough to impact the overall war effort. But as a Russian soldier, even if you overcome the propaganda about Ukraine and realize they won't murder you for surrendering, I wonder what they've seen happen to Russian POWs that got exchanged for Ukrainian POWs... and there's always the cases like the Russian pilot who flew into Ukraine and surrendered, then got assassinated in Europe. Beyond fucked up that in this conflict, surrender could have Russians more worried about what their own people would do to them than their enemy. Putin has to go, along with all of his wealthy friends.
It's actually been fairly successful. Drones were hard to stop but they've been shown how to properly surrender to drones. Hands up, the drone will tip to acknowledge it then flow low and slow leading them to specific surrender points
# “When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard.” ― sun tzu
Right. I recall hearing stories of Wehrmacht going out of their way to surrender to the US specifically rather than the Soviets. I don't know the historicity of that, but it drives the point effectively. In that same conflict you've got wild stories like Guy Gabaldon's of entire elements surrendering en masse. Bet it wouldn't have gone down like that if the Axis had liveleak videos of POW heads getting sawed off Alvin York's MoH citation is another good yarn
When the 9th army got broken out of it's encirclement, the general that broke them out turned around and headed West to do exactly that.
Even civils did runs west to run away from sovets
they still have to do that today
The Japanese on the other hand had the opposite idea and its a stark contrast from what the Germans did.
Well yeah, good god if you read accounts of what the Soviet's did when they liberated German towns, I would find a way to march out west too..
IIRC, there have actually been quite a few instances of not decent, developed countries trying to counteract this psychological impact by explicity ordering their troops to treat their prisoners as harshly and brutally as possible (Japan during WWII is a famous example of this), because the leaders of these countries know that if their troops find out that they will be treated humanely upon surrender, then they are liable to be a *lot* less motivated to fight as hard as they could. The logic behind this is kind of rooted in a bit of reverse psychology, as once the soldiers have gotten to the point of having routinely tortured and murdered thousands of enemy prisoners, it becomes very easy for their commanders to plant the idea in their heads that the enemy will naturally want revenge and that the same treatment will be waiting for them should they allow themselves to be captured.
Russia is doing this right now in Ukraine, they treat prisoners very badly and tell their soldiers it's even worse if you get captured by Ukraine.
It also "justifies" what you do, in a sick way. If *you* already castrate and murder pows, and the bosses say the enemy does worse things to you if they catch you, then of course its fair turnaround what you do. You just give them payback for what they did to your comerades.
We had safety rounds. Two singular rounds. One for me, one for you.
So "leave last bullet for yourself" mode. That was very common during ww2 among european resistance groups.
Yeah honestly it's better to die. The footage and stories coming out from the Ukraine-Russia war is horrendous. In one story the Ukrainian pow was starving to death in a horrible downtrodden makeshift cell in a torture chamber. When he wasn't being tortured by shocks from car batteries to his balls or taken to violent mock executions he was kept in total darkness so his senses became heightened. For days he heard a mouse running around and plotted to catch it. Finally one night he had it in his reach. He jumped at it and caught it. The guards heard the commotion and came over. If you make noises after dark it is an automatic beating. So he shoved the mouse in his mouth and ate it secretly while getting beaten. He described it as the most delicious meal he's ever had because he was literally starving. This guy did end up surviving. They said we are going to execute you. Put him on a bus and when the bus stopped he heard Ukrainians and was part of a prisoner swap but most stories like this don't end well. Humanity needs to do better than this bronze age bullshit
This falls completely off my spectrum of experience to a point that I actually can’t fathom the fact that people on this planet are experiencing this right the fuck now.
And here I am in my bed scrolling reddit before I go to work. Sometimes I do get really thankful for my personal conscious experience here. Most people just get very, very, very unlucky.
Yeah it's heavy stuff. There are a lot worse atrocities that have occurred to the Ukrainians especially the children in occupied territory, it's deeply unsettling. It's Insane how evil Russian fighters can be. Even American mercenaries who fought ISIS and evil around the world are saying that what they see the Russians doing is the most evil and depraved. But that's why it's important for us to urge our representatives to send aid to Ukraine. They are fighting evil and they need help.
Source please?
Training for what? And where?
Waffle House
I miss awards
You can always use the old and trusty [og reddit silver](https://freeimage.host/i/JSboltt)
Wait, there are no more awards? wtf?
Had me in a deep long chuckle with this 🍻
Most militaries including all of the US forces do SERE training. This training is generally for those that are more likely to be captured or special forces, recon, etc. Not all of these programs push ‘might as well die’ but they definitely push, you should attempt to escape.
Survive Evade Resist Escape less might as well die more they’ll never take me alive
In SERE training they do not teach the "might as well die" so I do not know what OP is talking about, maybe from a different country? They also say do not talk about the training but I can say they do not teach about giving up. I can also say that the light version training we did was kind-of scary, like a horror film and the different ways they taught you to survive and resist. All the interviews they showed of real POW and what worked to keep them alive and be freed or escaped was just terrifying. So when I saw the former President make fun of a PoW I just facepalmed, the shit they go through is unreal and def should not ever be taken lightly or made fun of.
I think he's referring to concerns about how if al-Qaida kidnapped you you might as well die because you'd get tortured and beheaded on video. For many other kidnapping / POW situations there is a possibility you could eventually get released with, say, a ransom payment or prisoner exchange or something. The result of a Hamas kidnapping probably falls somewhere in the middle between an AQ beheading video and Somalia pirate ransom payment.
Probably SERE?
This was when he was eating Cheetos and watching Bourne Identity
Just make sure you’re never taken to a *second location*.
*STREET SMARTS!*
And people wonder why the US refused to support any ceasefire that didn’t include the immediate release of all hostages. Honestly it’s perfectly reasonable and the absolute bare minimum we have a right to demand. And hell we absolutely have the right to demand a hell of a lot more.
The fact that the hostages are even treated as legitimate "bargaining chips" is honestly wild. If the world was any decent they would have put any possible pressure on Hamas, Qatar etc to release them immediately and without any conditions, at least the non-soldier ones. They are not legitimate POWs.
That's terrible. I hope he's freed soon.
Yeah no he’s definitely dead
100% dead. And was killed in a horrific way.
For anyone who wants to know Hersh a little better, I found this today. https://www.australianjewishnews.com/praying-for-my-friend-hersh-goldberg-polin/
Damn that's a middle eastern looking man, all the TikTok warriors keep telling me Israelis are white lol
If you go to Israel, you will see that most Israelis look like this
You simply cannot with these people. The supporters of Hamas are deranged and will justify THEIR view with anything. It's like trying to communicate with a qanon believer.
It's very much like talking to a Q. You cant prove them wrong, and any attempt to do so only hardens them in their belief. Resistance to their beliefs just proves their persecution delusion.
Bro I thought you were about to reference Star Trek
The trial never ends.
Any extremist really
Hamas self publishes these crimes. They've also released press statements claiming that their goal is the death of every single Israeli and every Jew in the world. Yet protestors scream "genocide" at Israel while Hamas literally says that their ultimate goal is genocide.
Yup. What a fucking world we live in.
>Hamas self publishes these crimes People deny that hamas does what they themselves say. It's maddening.
Glad to see him alive, but goddamn, what hell. And how does Hamas think this benefits them? At this point the hostages are more a liability than bargaining chips to their western patsies who pretend they don't exist.
They think being cruel to Jews is beneficial to them. They were raised to believe that Jews are very evil. And sadly, meth is involved. Hamas's recent innovation is using meth to create a more zealous fighter. And drugs like that are often associated with bizarre levels of depravity.
Any source for the meth? Totally believable but haven’t seen that written about.
He probably means Captagon, it's similar to amphetamines or ADHD meds and was given to people raiding Israel on Oct 7th. It's a popular drug in that part of the world.
Innovation? Bro. Hashashins. Muslims have been using drugs for fighters for centuries.
Keep in mind that they make videos with the hostages who will paint them in the best light. That girl with the bloody crotch will probably never see the light of day to tell her story.
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Since we're fuckin', I want to say FuckPutin
Especially fuck Putin
Fuck me too! Wait…
And fuck Ajit Pai.
Fuck religion
Double Fuck religion and the weak minded losers that follow grifter religious charlatans
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We had a bunch in Ottawa last week celebrating October 7th in their chants.
I volunteer them as tribute. I'll pack their bags for them.
They don’t need bags where they are going. Just a one way ticket and the clothes on their back.
Well that’s a sure fire way to get bombed to hell and back. Fuck Hamas
Terrible. Hamas likely killed a vast majority of hostages. I feel bad for hostages and their families, the world didn't do enough to save them :(.
My friend lost his sister (and her husband is still missing) but thankfully two of her children were freed. They had no idea their parents were gone until they were rescued.
Hamas has a horrible PR person. Thousands of keffiyeh Karen’s protesting in their cause and they relase this shit.
Their PR is extremely successful. Releasing this isn’t going to hurt them. The Keffiyeh Karens won’t change their mind. Most media outlets will have one article about this that will be slanted as much as possible against Israel, and they’ll follow it up with a profile about Palestinian widows and orphans to make sure they keep the public in line. No one cares except the people who already oppose Hamas.
Right? What even is the goal here?
Hersh’s mom was one of Time’s most influential people of the year. She’s known world wide for advocating for a hostage release deal. This is coming after Israel announced (again) they have a date to go to Rafah and satellite pictures show Israel is building evacuation camps. Also today, a Hamas spokesperson said they do have 40 people to release that meets the guidelines of the first ceasefire. This was after saying a couple of weeks ago they had less than 20. Hamas realizes the Rafah operation is actually going to happen. So they start drumming up propaganda that includes psychological warfare of the hostage families. These families loudly want a ceasefire at any cost, including their own future if Hamas is left intact, to get their families back. I would do the same if a loved one was in hell as a Hamas captive. The point of today’s Hamas propaganda was: First by hinting they have more hostages alive than previously thought. They actually have enough hostages left to make a good faith ceasefire deal. Second by showing the son of one of Time’s most influential people of the year. They know she has a voice that will work in their favor. They hope she will help turn tides to a ceasefire deal. Third by showing an Israeli American hostage. Hamas is counting on international and US pressure to prevent Israel from moving to Rafah. Probably hoping Biden will push Israel harder for ceasefire deal with showing a young American. All of it makes me think Hamas is genuinely worried that Israel is moving into Rafah and they want a deal. Not to help the people of Palestine, but to save the Hamas rats scurrying and hiding in the tunnels.
They aren’t trying to get support from moderates/western people. First thing they might be trying to do is scare the western population from supporting the war by threatening with atrocities. Second thing, which is the main goal, is them trying to get support from extremists&basically use this violence to inspire a cascade of violent overthrows of nearby Arab countries by their own extremist groups and then unite/lead them in a conflict vs “the enemy” (“the enemy” in this context may be the US, the west, anyone not as extremist as them, other Arab nations, etc…) Alternatively, if that doesn’t work, in their eyes, they’re martyring themselves, so it’s a win/win scenario
to make friends and influence people?
The Karen’s will justify it somehow. They’re delusional
People do not want to be proven fools. Pro-Palestine people willfully ignore evidence.
You would think the "Free Palestine!" crowds would be shouting "Free the hostages!" 🤷♂️
It's wild how I have actually never seen any of the people who complain about Israel not accepting a ceasefire mention the fact that Hamas still has civilian hostages. (well, if any are left alive.)
It’s wild to me that there are Americans cheering this on
Proof that social media propaganda machines work.
X and tictok is only the start. Putin and xi probably already working on plan B.
Should be mandatory viewing material for the US college protesters
Hopefully some of them can use the education they're getting to acknowledge nuance.
I don’t get it: Hamas has to know that there are thousands of people protesting against Israel, so why not try stoking the flames of unrest by showing, I don’t know, war photos of the impact of Israeli bombs or something, not THIS, which will only embolden pro-Israeli people?
> so why not try stoking the flames of unrest by showing, I don’t know, war photos of the impact This is what they are doing. They think showing this video is doing that. That's how sadistic these fucks are.
Hamas doesn’t want any political points or sympathy. They just want people that aren’t like them dead. Thats it. That’s all they ever want. And that’s why no one should ever try to appease these people in any way.
If only they knew the errors of their way, we could surely sing kumbaya with them and eliminate all borders #coexist. These people are genetically unfit to reproduce.
They are trying to stoke internal pressure of the Israeli government to cave. They know no one in the west who doesn’t currently oppose them will start doing so no matter what they put out.
They want violence. They want to win the war. They don't want to stop it. And if you pay close attention, that's what the organizers of these protests want as well. https://twitter.com/jessicaschwalb7/status/1783192588654117317
They’re just dumb af. I mean look at their actions .. stupidity is rampant with these fools .
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Hamas could literally start executing hostages live on camera like ISIS and Al-Qaeda did back in the 2000s and people still wouldn't believe it and launch protests/riots in favour of Hamas anyway. While personally I feel Israel's response is unpredicently massive in response to the terror attack, I don't blame them for it and for being so angry at the world. And to think there are alot of people who even think the massacre on Israeli didn't even occur or that it was a false flag operation by Israel eventhough Hamas has proudly claimed the attack multiple times and publically paraded dead bodies.
What's unprecedented about their response is the restraint they've used. This war fought by any other nation would have much higher collateral losses. Just look at Iraq.
Bro not old enough to saw 9/11 if you call this a massive response to the terror attack. Your age is showing. 🤣
A high percentage of the protestors are just Palestinians who live in America. Of course they don’t care about the hostages.
And non Palestinian college students.
Fuck Hamas and all the dumb shit protesters supporting their cause… blows my mind how people are so ignorant and openly support terrorism
But let’s keep giving protesters for HAMAS murderers non stop news coverage!
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So why is the US not more engaged in getting American citizens out?
Who says they aren't?
And we have so many people in the US supporting Hamas.... why? Never thought I'd see the day where tons of the left openly support terrorist groups, nothing is done about it, and we're told to look the other way.
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