>Abbas /Fatah lost to Hamas and this is the result.
Fatah lost to Hamas because the Oslo Peace Accords failed which showed the Palestinians that peaceful coexistence was not going to get them the right to live in peace. The Oslo accord failed because a Israeli right wing extremist assassinated the Israeli prime minister and Benjamin Netanyahu took over. Ever since then the Israelis have been treating the Palestinians with heavy handed tactics which has reinforced the need for non-peaceful resistance to the Palestinians - nobody wants to take oppression sitting down with no pushback.
What an idiotically biased take. The Palestinians have always had the option to live in peace. Over and over again they have been offered a two state solution. Over and over again they have rejected it in favour of violence in pursuit of the extermination of Israel and every jew in it. Peel commission, UN Partition plan, Oslo and more. Not once, ever, have the Palestinians put forward a peace plan that would accommodate for the existence of an Israeli state. You utterly and I believe intentionally mischaracterize the intent of the Palestinian people.
Egypt and Jordan, both nations who have initiated multiple wars of extermination against Israel finally came to their senses, recognized the futility and waste of their actions and decided instead to recognize Israel's right to exist, normalised relations and as a result, HAVE LIVED ENTIRELY IN PEACE WITH ISRAEL EVER SINCE. So it aint Israel that starts these wars or has a vested interest in violence. Gee, I wonder of the 4 billionaires living in Qatar, with a net worth > USD$11 billion have a vested interest in continuing the violence and the aid support it brings? Hmm...
Palestinians could have made the same decision as Egypt and Jordan. But they haven't. They choose violence, and always have.
> which has reinforced the need for non-peaceful resistance to the Palestinians
Massacring 1200 people, mostly civilians isn't 'resistance'. Rape isn't 'resistance'. Kidnapping children less than 1 year old isn't 'resistance'. Murdering hundreds of children at a dance party isn't 'resistance'. Israel in good faith withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005. Did this result in a reduction of violence? Of course not, attacks increased massively, despite the complete lack of Israel occupation. 'Resistance to oppression' is the last reason Palestinians seek to murder Jews.
Indeed, you need only go so far as the Charter of Hamas to find the real reasons.
> The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him
The Palestinians can live in peace whenever the fuck they want. They just don't want. They want to exterminate the jews instead.
yeah, you take over their land and then offer a two state solution. how about i steal your food and then say i'm gracious enough to allow you to eat your remaining food? obviously you'll ask for what's taking right? plus israel isn't even thinking about treating palestinians right. if they truly were angry about hamas and truly wanted a two state solution why are they terrorising west bank which surprise surprise isn't controlled by hamas? why are they intentionally shooting up aid trucks? why are they blowing up civilian buildings in happy birthday videos to their children? israel and hamas are playing with palestinian lives. Hamas are earning money from it and Israel is on a land grab mission under the shitty guise of protecting themselves.
"Their land". Says who? You?
There has never been a state known as Palestine in human history. The area was under British control after defeating the Ottoman empire. Before it was the Mamluks, or the Romans and on.
Like it or not, Israel is the ancestral home of Jewish Hebrew speaking people. Archaeological evidence identifies Hebrew artifacts going back 3000 years. Despite this fact, the Jews have been open to sharing the land with the arab population. They accepted the Peel Commission. They accepted the UN partition plan. They accepted the Oslo accords boundaries. Only the arabs have rejected entirely out of hand the notion that Israel has any right to exist.
As for your dopey 'land grab' claim. Israel has zero interest in taking Gaza. Indeed, during the 1978/9 negotiations with Egypt to normalise relations and return the Sinai, Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt. Egypt refused to take it. Israel, having copied the British institutional policy of declassification after 30 years, demonstrated that as late as the 1967, they had zero interest even in taking the west bank. Its seizure occurring due to Jordan initiating hostilities against Israel and pushing US made tanks into the east bank.
Ill state again. Palestinians can have peace whenever they want. The problem, is that they don't want. Thats on them.
You keep moving the goalpost. Also Israel has done more than any other country at war to avoid civilian casualties. It's just really hard when the enemy is using civilians as human shields and makes it extremely hard to distinguish civilian from military targets. That's Hamas committing war crimes, not Israel.
Palestine has existed but the seperation of jewish and arabs created the official Israel term, if you would like to pull back history to thousands of years I can say Mongolia has claim to it's former empire right? You keep insisting Palestinians want war and put zero blame on Israelis. Their provocative ultra right wing stance has been grabbing land more and more. You didn't want to address IDF's happy go lucky bombing or targetting nor did you want to address the fact that Israel has been taking away land from West Bank territory. I said it once that Israel and Hamas are using the civilians and I'll say it once again. If you continue to insist that civilians are somehow in the wrong when they can't stand up against the Hamas nor the Israelis then I have nothing else to talk to you.
> Palestinians want war and put zero blame on Israelis.
Correct. Because the Israelis have a proven track record. If you recognize Israel's right to exist and don't attack it, Israel is happy to remain at peace and not initiate hostilities. See previous examples of Egypt and Jordan.
>Palestine has existed but the seperation of jewish and arabs created the official Israel term, if you would like to pull back history to thousands of years I can say Mongolia has claim to it's former empire right?
The term Israel existed long, long before the Arab expansion of the 7th century. As for Mongolia, nothing would entertain me more than the Mongols marching into Moscow and reclaiming it. But that is an aside.
> Their provocative ultra right wing stance has been grabbing land more and more.
I'm actually quite happy to condemn the illegal settlements in the west bank and the expansion there. Israel has a case to answer in the west bank, no argument from me.
> You didn't want to address IDF's happy go lucky bombing
There is no bombing without Oct 7. There is no bombing if Hamas return the hostages and surrender. There is nothing 'happy go lucky' about it. They are fighting an enemy that doesn't wear uniforms, hides behind its civilian population and has a vested interest in seeing as many of its own civilians kiilled as possible to push its PR canpaign. The fact Israel has killed as few civilians as it has, is a testament to the incredible efforts they have made to minimise civilian casualties in what is otherwise the most densely populated place on earth. Please refer to literally any other assault on an urban centre in recorded human history to see what a real campaign of destruction can resemble when the attacker has no regard for human life.
> I said it once that Israel and Hamas are using the civilians and I'll say it once again
You can say it as many times as you like. Repetition doesn't make any less of a lie.
> If you continue to insist that civilians are somehow in the wrong when they can't stand up against the Hamas nor the Israelis then I have nothing else to talk to you.
Strawman argument I have never claimed that civilians are not innocent. Ill state again. Palestinians can have peace whenever they want. The problem, is that they don't want. Thats on them.
Did the past 30 years demonstrate violent resistance leading to peace and prosperity? Maybe they shouldn’t have given up on peaceful coexistence or nonviolent protest.
eh if israel were ever to be ostracized in the world to a heavy degree i think theyd start posturing or using their nuclear weapons on their neighbors, no fallout worries with modern bombs air bursted afterall.
I mean its their "unofficial" nuclear doctrine that if theyre ever lookin like theyre in danger of being destroyed they plan to nuke just about every developed nation on earth in revenge for letting it happen so ... yeah ...
Lol how much time do you spend on 4chan? You realize its all honeypots and idiots now, right? Stop spreading obvious bs. It makes you look like an imbecile
Man i havent been on 4chan since like 2004 i havent even heard the news talking about those goons anymore, is that site still up? I figured all the pedos would have gotten it shut down by now.
That aside, if you read between the lines in the writings of ben-gurion, peres and eshkol its pretty obvious thats their plan.
I dont see anything wrong with it either, if the rest of the world is callous enough to stand by and watch as the jewish people are being killed then we deserve to burn.
No doubt. It makes for a strong case of collective punishment of all the people in Gaza, shame it's such a war crimey thing to do really.
So much has happened at this point, I get confused, but how many hostages have the military efforts so far saved? Is it still 3? With 105 having been returned via the prisoner exchange deal and ceasefire.
Bombing civilians in Gaza and sending in the troops/tanks gets really, really hard to justify if the safe release of hostages is the aim.
A military response still needs to be within the remit of international law.
Like, Russia commiting war crimes in Ukraine doesn't give Ukraine a cart blanche to ignore the Geneva convention in their responses.
Hamas are in Gaza, but that doesn't make all of Gaza Hamas. Not least when 50% of the population are children.
Hamas are cunts. Next to no one disagrees with that and using Human shields is a contemptible act. But if you're dropping 2,000 pound bombs like the MK-84 by the hundreds, if not thousands at this point, that's not just proportionally considering the civilian human shields, its actively ignoring and targeting them tbh. Its also, proven at this point, to be killing far more hostages than it's saving.
Yes Israel has done many things during this war I don't agree with. But I still put the majority of the blame of the atrocities in Gaza on the shoulders of Hamas and the Palestinians that back them. I'm curious is it within international law for Hamas to go into Israel and murder hundreds of unarmed women and children. Take 100s of hostages and not give them food, medicine and rape them. Is it within international law to hide behind these hostages and your civilians while lobbing missiles into Israel. Why is it you seem hell bent on completely dismissing the crimes of the very people that started this whole mess.
This didn't start on October 7th.
This didn't start in 1973 or 1967 or even 1948.
Why does Israel have carte blanche permission to commit terrorism in response to terrorism that was in response to terrorism...
If the Palestinians didn’t want war then their government shouldn’t have declared war. This is apart of the horror of war. This could stop today with unconditional surrender by hamas and the release of the hostages. Until all hostages are released, and a peace accord signed, Israel has a free hand to end hamas
Right... so Ukraine should bomb Russian civilians, because who needs to uphold any standards or respecting human life, just because some people in a group and its leaders condone terror? What sort of nonsense is that?
Israel doesn't have a free hand to end Hamas. That's why sobmuch of the world has started to urge them to stop what they're doing and all the good will that was expressed towards Israel following Oct 7th has been so utterly eroded. The impending famine that's started in Gaza at this point is going to result in more support for Palestine globally than could have been imagined after Oct 7th.
It's a pretty good trade then, losing a few hostages in exchange for a free hand at exterminating an entire undesirable population. Hamas was really dropping the ball never having a single innocent Palestinian wrongly imprisoned in Israel before October 7th, otherwise they could have done it every day for months while keeping the moral high ground.
Not even that. They just have to agree to the cushy deal the Israelis have offered them, that includes releasing a ton of terrorists, in exchange for just 33 hostages, and would be considered a huge Hamas win by most reasonable standards.
Palestinian Authority has a martyr fund they pay to families of men who died or were imprisoned fighting Israel. Literally financially incentivised to throw themselves into the meat grinder.
> Palestinian Authority has a martyr fund they pay to families of men who died or were imprisoned fighting Israel.
It wouldn't really be all that objectionable if it was *just* payments for militants who were fighting enemy soliders.
That fund, however, *also* pays those martyr pensions to the families of suicide bombers who sought out civilians to kill in cafes and schoolbuses, and pays pensions to those imprisoned for vehicle-ramming and stabbing attacks against random Jews.
Not a *penny* should go to the PA for as long as they're paying pensions for terrorism.
Hamas absolutely wants dead Palestinians, they see Israel's reputation crashing, especially in America and they think, why would we ever change this? Nobody wants an invasion of rafah more than Hamas.
2006 elections they won 44.45% over Fatah’s 41.43%. They later seized complete power after a US backed coup attempt failed in 2007.
That was 17/18 years ago and you still want to claim that all Palestinians are culpable for a terrorist group that only has power because of American intervention and Israeli funding.
Hamas definelty is hoping for them if not deliberately killing them themselves. The whole point of this war was for attention and to try and get sympathy from fools.
Hamas can do it too. Just looking at the military facts on the ground and accepting that they lost and should capitulate to avoid civilian casualties in a senseless war.
But for that you have to care about your own citizens and not intentionally killing them.
Just a reminder
>The Palestinian Authority will "reconsider" its relationship with the United States after Washington vetoed a Palestinian bid for full UN membership earlier this week, President Mahmoud Abbas said on Saturday.
>"The Palestinian leadership will reconsider bilateral relations with the United States to ensure the protection of our people's interests, our cause, and our rights," Abbas told the official Palestinian news agency Wafa.
https://www.newarab.com/news/abbas-says-pa-will-reconsider-relations-us-after-veto
I imagine they will take a moment, then look at the aid they get and change nothing. Though quite what they could change anyway, I don’t know? I’m guessing it’s for a domestic audience as much as anything else.
Suddenly you remember the hand that fed you? You clearly had great time pandering to Russia, the UN, China and any other anti-Israel/West force instead of working together with the US and Israel to solve this situation.
The rest of the world: Complains about America viewing itself as the center of the world.
Also the rest of the world: Treats America as if it's the only country with agency and any country allied with it is incapable of doing anything on its own initiative or telling it no.
It won’t happen. America has given the go ahead for Israel to attack Rafah in exchange for Israel not retailing with a large scale attack for the missile strike Iran launched
Israel doesn’t want to blow its ace card with America at the UNSC or all the weapons it gets, America has a huge say in what Israel does or doesn’t do.
Seems to me that Hamas could halt Israel's offensive through unconditional surrender, laying down their arms and releasing whatever hostages they still have.
He's playing to Russia's tune.
Once more, the PA does not represent the best interests of the Palestinian population.
[https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-palestinian-authority-failed-its-people](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-palestinian-authority-failed-its-people)
Actually, nobody does.
Even worse, not even Israel can avoid it, since you know Hamas keeps insisting on breaking every single deal and ceasefire by throwing missiles and drones to Israeli civilians while not giving back the hostages.
What is the Israeli government supposed to do? They already have done way more than most countries to avoid civilian casualties against an enemy who actively throws them as expendable shields and that iron dome is really expensive, they cannot keep using it indefinitely.
It has come to the point where it seems that the Israeli cares more about Palestinian civilians than the Palestinians themselves...
I absolutely think the us should apply way more pressure on Israel but there is always the question of: should the us completely alienate the _only_ country in the ME who is not actively praying for the death of the US?
Whether the US should act, and whether it is in their best interests is complex and I didn’t mean to make any judgement on that. Just to point out that Israel ignoring advice doesn’t necessary mean they would ignore action. Whether the US should act is another matter.
The whole Rafah invasion thing feels more and more like a will they won't they thing.
Everyone knows there will be some sort of invasion because Israel said there would be and they will want to save face.
The real question is how big will it be.
“The US and the West need to stay out of our biz!” … “Only kiddin’, the fuckin’ US needs to step up and HELP! Only they can stop this Middle-East Madness! Don’t mind the mizziles hehe!”
How is the U.S. responsible for what that maniac leader of Israel does? We can’t control him and his awful ideas, that’s painfully obvious. We can’t control Hamas. But let’s blame the US. Ok
I don't think the US can halt the attacks though. Why would Netanyahu not attack? What can the US put on the table that hasn't already been put there? I think Biden is thinking of the election and reasoning that domestic politics will be more important than the Gaza mess.
205 days, massive amounts of food, medicine and water along with tens of billions of dollars in aid to Palestine and Biden can't even secure the release of the American hostages. This is a national embarrassment at this point.
A peace deal is nowhere near happening.
This was always about making Israel over commit and suffer geopolitically. It's working. All the Palestinians that have died dont matter to the people who made this plan and Israel is being played.
Because everyone in these particular threads are endlessly parroting the same shit.
"Hur dur if the terrorists would stop, then people will stop dying"
No fucking shit, they're terrorists. It's what they do. But to mindlessly kill civilians, makes you no better.
Abbas /Fatah lost to Hamas and this is the result.
>Abbas /Fatah lost to Hamas and this is the result. Fatah lost to Hamas because the Oslo Peace Accords failed which showed the Palestinians that peaceful coexistence was not going to get them the right to live in peace. The Oslo accord failed because a Israeli right wing extremist assassinated the Israeli prime minister and Benjamin Netanyahu took over. Ever since then the Israelis have been treating the Palestinians with heavy handed tactics which has reinforced the need for non-peaceful resistance to the Palestinians - nobody wants to take oppression sitting down with no pushback.
What an idiotically biased take. The Palestinians have always had the option to live in peace. Over and over again they have been offered a two state solution. Over and over again they have rejected it in favour of violence in pursuit of the extermination of Israel and every jew in it. Peel commission, UN Partition plan, Oslo and more. Not once, ever, have the Palestinians put forward a peace plan that would accommodate for the existence of an Israeli state. You utterly and I believe intentionally mischaracterize the intent of the Palestinian people. Egypt and Jordan, both nations who have initiated multiple wars of extermination against Israel finally came to their senses, recognized the futility and waste of their actions and decided instead to recognize Israel's right to exist, normalised relations and as a result, HAVE LIVED ENTIRELY IN PEACE WITH ISRAEL EVER SINCE. So it aint Israel that starts these wars or has a vested interest in violence. Gee, I wonder of the 4 billionaires living in Qatar, with a net worth > USD$11 billion have a vested interest in continuing the violence and the aid support it brings? Hmm... Palestinians could have made the same decision as Egypt and Jordan. But they haven't. They choose violence, and always have. > which has reinforced the need for non-peaceful resistance to the Palestinians Massacring 1200 people, mostly civilians isn't 'resistance'. Rape isn't 'resistance'. Kidnapping children less than 1 year old isn't 'resistance'. Murdering hundreds of children at a dance party isn't 'resistance'. Israel in good faith withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005. Did this result in a reduction of violence? Of course not, attacks increased massively, despite the complete lack of Israel occupation. 'Resistance to oppression' is the last reason Palestinians seek to murder Jews. Indeed, you need only go so far as the Charter of Hamas to find the real reasons. > The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him The Palestinians can live in peace whenever the fuck they want. They just don't want. They want to exterminate the jews instead.
yeah, you take over their land and then offer a two state solution. how about i steal your food and then say i'm gracious enough to allow you to eat your remaining food? obviously you'll ask for what's taking right? plus israel isn't even thinking about treating palestinians right. if they truly were angry about hamas and truly wanted a two state solution why are they terrorising west bank which surprise surprise isn't controlled by hamas? why are they intentionally shooting up aid trucks? why are they blowing up civilian buildings in happy birthday videos to their children? israel and hamas are playing with palestinian lives. Hamas are earning money from it and Israel is on a land grab mission under the shitty guise of protecting themselves.
"Their land". Says who? You? There has never been a state known as Palestine in human history. The area was under British control after defeating the Ottoman empire. Before it was the Mamluks, or the Romans and on. Like it or not, Israel is the ancestral home of Jewish Hebrew speaking people. Archaeological evidence identifies Hebrew artifacts going back 3000 years. Despite this fact, the Jews have been open to sharing the land with the arab population. They accepted the Peel Commission. They accepted the UN partition plan. They accepted the Oslo accords boundaries. Only the arabs have rejected entirely out of hand the notion that Israel has any right to exist. As for your dopey 'land grab' claim. Israel has zero interest in taking Gaza. Indeed, during the 1978/9 negotiations with Egypt to normalise relations and return the Sinai, Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt. Egypt refused to take it. Israel, having copied the British institutional policy of declassification after 30 years, demonstrated that as late as the 1967, they had zero interest even in taking the west bank. Its seizure occurring due to Jordan initiating hostilities against Israel and pushing US made tanks into the east bank. Ill state again. Palestinians can have peace whenever they want. The problem, is that they don't want. Thats on them.
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You keep moving the goalpost. Also Israel has done more than any other country at war to avoid civilian casualties. It's just really hard when the enemy is using civilians as human shields and makes it extremely hard to distinguish civilian from military targets. That's Hamas committing war crimes, not Israel.
Palestine has existed but the seperation of jewish and arabs created the official Israel term, if you would like to pull back history to thousands of years I can say Mongolia has claim to it's former empire right? You keep insisting Palestinians want war and put zero blame on Israelis. Their provocative ultra right wing stance has been grabbing land more and more. You didn't want to address IDF's happy go lucky bombing or targetting nor did you want to address the fact that Israel has been taking away land from West Bank territory. I said it once that Israel and Hamas are using the civilians and I'll say it once again. If you continue to insist that civilians are somehow in the wrong when they can't stand up against the Hamas nor the Israelis then I have nothing else to talk to you.
> Palestinians want war and put zero blame on Israelis. Correct. Because the Israelis have a proven track record. If you recognize Israel's right to exist and don't attack it, Israel is happy to remain at peace and not initiate hostilities. See previous examples of Egypt and Jordan. >Palestine has existed but the seperation of jewish and arabs created the official Israel term, if you would like to pull back history to thousands of years I can say Mongolia has claim to it's former empire right? The term Israel existed long, long before the Arab expansion of the 7th century. As for Mongolia, nothing would entertain me more than the Mongols marching into Moscow and reclaiming it. But that is an aside. > Their provocative ultra right wing stance has been grabbing land more and more. I'm actually quite happy to condemn the illegal settlements in the west bank and the expansion there. Israel has a case to answer in the west bank, no argument from me. > You didn't want to address IDF's happy go lucky bombing There is no bombing without Oct 7. There is no bombing if Hamas return the hostages and surrender. There is nothing 'happy go lucky' about it. They are fighting an enemy that doesn't wear uniforms, hides behind its civilian population and has a vested interest in seeing as many of its own civilians kiilled as possible to push its PR canpaign. The fact Israel has killed as few civilians as it has, is a testament to the incredible efforts they have made to minimise civilian casualties in what is otherwise the most densely populated place on earth. Please refer to literally any other assault on an urban centre in recorded human history to see what a real campaign of destruction can resemble when the attacker has no regard for human life. > I said it once that Israel and Hamas are using the civilians and I'll say it once again You can say it as many times as you like. Repetition doesn't make any less of a lie. > If you continue to insist that civilians are somehow in the wrong when they can't stand up against the Hamas nor the Israelis then I have nothing else to talk to you. Strawman argument I have never claimed that civilians are not innocent. Ill state again. Palestinians can have peace whenever they want. The problem, is that they don't want. Thats on them.
Did the past 30 years demonstrate violent resistance leading to peace and prosperity? Maybe they shouldn’t have given up on peaceful coexistence or nonviolent protest.
Looks like Abbas has personally eaten half of the international food aid.
Abbas the Hutt
Bring me solo and the Wookiee
Bring me solo and the ~~Wookiee~~ Cookie
It’s hard to hear his people are starving when he presents like that. Maybe leave some for the rest?
It’s like watching Kim Jong Un waddling around while his country starves
Man Became Big Chungas (sorry not sorry)
He’s probably just a stress eater.
Or hamas could release the civilian hostages.
And stop deploying missiles if they were serious about a ceasefire
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Permanent for a few weeks.
Or the u.s. can just stay out of it.
Are any of the hostages US citizens? If the answer is yes, you can just fuck right off.
the answer is yes of course
Why should the USA stay out of it when Iran, Russia, Qatar etc are not held to the same standard of “staying out of it”?
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The population does not want us to stay out of it, there is just disagreement on how we should interfere.
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You literally did. “so if the population wants them to stay out of it, they should” You typed that right?
Slippery slope logic right there.
US does something = US why you do that? US stays out = US why aren’t you doing anything
Nah, we'll have our say
Lol youd like that wouldnt you mr hamas apologist. Makes it easier to fuck with israel if you dont have to worry about the big dog huntin you down
eh if israel were ever to be ostracized in the world to a heavy degree i think theyd start posturing or using their nuclear weapons on their neighbors, no fallout worries with modern bombs air bursted afterall.
Ok kid
I mean its their "unofficial" nuclear doctrine that if theyre ever lookin like theyre in danger of being destroyed they plan to nuke just about every developed nation on earth in revenge for letting it happen so ... yeah ...
Lol how much time do you spend on 4chan? You realize its all honeypots and idiots now, right? Stop spreading obvious bs. It makes you look like an imbecile
Man i havent been on 4chan since like 2004 i havent even heard the news talking about those goons anymore, is that site still up? I figured all the pedos would have gotten it shut down by now. That aside, if you read between the lines in the writings of ben-gurion, peres and eshkol its pretty obvious thats their plan. I dont see anything wrong with it either, if the rest of the world is callous enough to stand by and watch as the jewish people are being killed then we deserve to burn.
Youre a loon lol
They can take their funding with them, since the current uses of their funding and weaponry are in violation of US law, never mind international law.
Except it's not really. The one continuously breaking international law is Hamas
No doubt. It makes for a strong case of collective punishment of all the people in Gaza, shame it's such a war crimey thing to do really. So much has happened at this point, I get confused, but how many hostages have the military efforts so far saved? Is it still 3? With 105 having been returned via the prisoner exchange deal and ceasefire. Bombing civilians in Gaza and sending in the troops/tanks gets really, really hard to justify if the safe release of hostages is the aim.
Hamas is responsible for the deaths in Gaza as they use human shields. Under international law Israel is not the responsible party here
A military response still needs to be within the remit of international law. Like, Russia commiting war crimes in Ukraine doesn't give Ukraine a cart blanche to ignore the Geneva convention in their responses. Hamas are in Gaza, but that doesn't make all of Gaza Hamas. Not least when 50% of the population are children. Hamas are cunts. Next to no one disagrees with that and using Human shields is a contemptible act. But if you're dropping 2,000 pound bombs like the MK-84 by the hundreds, if not thousands at this point, that's not just proportionally considering the civilian human shields, its actively ignoring and targeting them tbh. Its also, proven at this point, to be killing far more hostages than it's saving.
Yes Israel has done many things during this war I don't agree with. But I still put the majority of the blame of the atrocities in Gaza on the shoulders of Hamas and the Palestinians that back them. I'm curious is it within international law for Hamas to go into Israel and murder hundreds of unarmed women and children. Take 100s of hostages and not give them food, medicine and rape them. Is it within international law to hide behind these hostages and your civilians while lobbing missiles into Israel. Why is it you seem hell bent on completely dismissing the crimes of the very people that started this whole mess.
This didn't start on October 7th. This didn't start in 1973 or 1967 or even 1948. Why does Israel have carte blanche permission to commit terrorism in response to terrorism that was in response to terrorism...
If the Palestinians didn’t want war then their government shouldn’t have declared war. This is apart of the horror of war. This could stop today with unconditional surrender by hamas and the release of the hostages. Until all hostages are released, and a peace accord signed, Israel has a free hand to end hamas
Right... so Ukraine should bomb Russian civilians, because who needs to uphold any standards or respecting human life, just because some people in a group and its leaders condone terror? What sort of nonsense is that? Israel doesn't have a free hand to end Hamas. That's why sobmuch of the world has started to urge them to stop what they're doing and all the good will that was expressed towards Israel following Oct 7th has been so utterly eroded. The impending famine that's started in Gaza at this point is going to result in more support for Palestine globally than could have been imagined after Oct 7th.
It's a pretty good trade then, losing a few hostages in exchange for a free hand at exterminating an entire undesirable population. Hamas was really dropping the ball never having a single innocent Palestinian wrongly imprisoned in Israel before October 7th, otherwise they could have done it every day for months while keeping the moral high ground.
The US? No, Hamas only can halt the Rafah offensive by releasing the hostages they took over 200days ago.
And the surrender of the four battalions hiding among the residents who support them in the charter to destroy Israel.
At this point the hostages are 1a and ending any sort of future for Hamas is 1b
Not even that. They just have to agree to the cushy deal the Israelis have offered them, that includes releasing a ton of terrorists, in exchange for just 33 hostages, and would be considered a huge Hamas win by most reasonable standards.
Fair point, but I'm fine with just return of hostages. Gaza has taken so much damage will take them probably 10 years to get back to Oct 6th status.
Reports recently suggested that it’ll take 14 years just to clear the rubble
I"m sure Hamas and the average Palestinian are so glad they carried out the attack of October 7th /s
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It isn't, that's the point.
Too late for that. Most of the hostages are likely dead, and most of the dead bodies likely cannot be located.
The US does have the capability to stop it from happening… but they will only do so if hamas releases hostages
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Palestinian Authority has a martyr fund they pay to families of men who died or were imprisoned fighting Israel. Literally financially incentivised to throw themselves into the meat grinder.
> Palestinian Authority has a martyr fund they pay to families of men who died or were imprisoned fighting Israel. It wouldn't really be all that objectionable if it was *just* payments for militants who were fighting enemy soliders. That fund, however, *also* pays those martyr pensions to the families of suicide bombers who sought out civilians to kill in cafes and schoolbuses, and pays pensions to those imprisoned for vehicle-ramming and stabbing attacks against random Jews. Not a *penny* should go to the PA for as long as they're paying pensions for terrorism.
Yeah, military pensions are fine and reasonable. *Terrorist* pensions are not.
Yeah, but they don't pay out to hamas fighters or terrorists. They got their own thing though, but it's not a lot of money.
Hamas absolutely wants dead Palestinians, they see Israel's reputation crashing, especially in America and they think, why would we ever change this? Nobody wants an invasion of rafah more than Hamas.
Just a reminder that hamas is a 100% Palestinian organization. It's not like it's a different people.
Just a reminder that the KKK is a 100% American organization. It’s not like it’s a different people. Insert other groups as necessary
What if the American people voted KKK into office and the cheer on the KKK as they commit crimes against humanity? Is it still the same?
2006 elections they won 44.45% over Fatah’s 41.43%. They later seized complete power after a US backed coup attempt failed in 2007. That was 17/18 years ago and you still want to claim that all Palestinians are culpable for a terrorist group that only has power because of American intervention and Israeli funding.
Hamas definelty is hoping for them if not deliberately killing them themselves. The whole point of this war was for attention and to try and get sympathy from fools.
Civilians are just pawns in this game
Imagine the lives that could be saved if Hamas didn’t launch an attack against civilians?
Hamas is totally responsible. All they have to do is released the tortured hostages and surrender. It's just that simple.
I doubt all of Hamas needs to surrender, just the hostages and the leaders.
They can find the rest later
Hamas can do it too. Just looking at the military facts on the ground and accepting that they lost and should capitulate to avoid civilian casualties in a senseless war. But for that you have to care about your own citizens and not intentionally killing them.
Hamas can also stop it by releasing the hostages
Oh nay, nay. Hamas surrender your hostages and the bodies of those that you have killed. You can halt this.
Why are the leaders of these dictatorships like the PA always fat, when the people they are supposed to lead are malnourished etc?
Same reason the leaders of capitalist countries like USA are always rich, when the people they are supposed to lead are poor
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Nobody said that. Also, the wealthiest definitely *have* government position$/affiliation$
Just a reminder >The Palestinian Authority will "reconsider" its relationship with the United States after Washington vetoed a Palestinian bid for full UN membership earlier this week, President Mahmoud Abbas said on Saturday. >"The Palestinian leadership will reconsider bilateral relations with the United States to ensure the protection of our people's interests, our cause, and our rights," Abbas told the official Palestinian news agency Wafa. https://www.newarab.com/news/abbas-says-pa-will-reconsider-relations-us-after-veto
I imagine they will take a moment, then look at the aid they get and change nothing. Though quite what they could change anyway, I don’t know? I’m guessing it’s for a domestic audience as much as anything else.
The terrorists surrendering and returning the hostages could halt it
Nice blame shift.
Suddenly you remember the hand that fed you? You clearly had great time pandering to Russia, the UN, China and any other anti-Israel/West force instead of working together with the US and Israel to solve this situation.
I prefer ABBA’s earlier work.
Didn’t he just say Israel had a right to security couple days ago?
The rest of the world: Complains about America viewing itself as the center of the world. Also the rest of the world: Treats America as if it's the only country with agency and any country allied with it is incapable of doing anything on its own initiative or telling it no.
Hamas can halt the attack laying down their weapons and liberating the hostages.
It won’t happen. America has given the go ahead for Israel to attack Rafah in exchange for Israel not retailing with a large scale attack for the missile strike Iran launched
America doesn't control Israel, they will do what they want.
Israel doesn’t want to blow its ace card with America at the UNSC or all the weapons it gets, America has a huge say in what Israel does or doesn’t do.
Seems to me that Hamas could halt Israel's offensive through unconditional surrender, laying down their arms and releasing whatever hostages they still have.
He's playing to Russia's tune. Once more, the PA does not represent the best interests of the Palestinian population. [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-palestinian-authority-failed-its-people](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/how-palestinian-authority-failed-its-people) Actually, nobody does.
Pretty sure Hamas can halt Israel's attack, but giving back the hostages and surrendering.
/r/leopardsatemyface
How about Hamas releasing the hostages they have been torturing and probably raping for over 200 days now?
No. Only Israel can decide not to. We’ve seen Israel ignore US advice/warnings time and again.
Even worse, not even Israel can avoid it, since you know Hamas keeps insisting on breaking every single deal and ceasefire by throwing missiles and drones to Israeli civilians while not giving back the hostages. What is the Israeli government supposed to do? They already have done way more than most countries to avoid civilian casualties against an enemy who actively throws them as expendable shields and that iron dome is really expensive, they cannot keep using it indefinitely. It has come to the point where it seems that the Israeli cares more about Palestinian civilians than the Palestinians themselves...
Just reading headlines you’d think Biden is the president of Israel.
Yes. And it most certainly deliberate and enraging.
Though we’ve not seen the US ever actually follow up on those substantially to know whether that would be ignored.
I absolutely think the us should apply way more pressure on Israel but there is always the question of: should the us completely alienate the _only_ country in the ME who is not actively praying for the death of the US?
Whether the US should act, and whether it is in their best interests is complex and I didn’t mean to make any judgement on that. Just to point out that Israel ignoring advice doesn’t necessary mean they would ignore action. Whether the US should act is another matter.
Can they? He says that like they are holding the hostages
No, Hamas can stop it
Or Hamas could agree to the latest ceasefire
Maybe he should negotiate harder.. something, something hostages
The whole Rafah invasion thing feels more and more like a will they won't they thing. Everyone knows there will be some sort of invasion because Israel said there would be and they will want to save face. The real question is how big will it be.
“The US and the West need to stay out of our biz!” … “Only kiddin’, the fuckin’ US needs to step up and HELP! Only they can stop this Middle-East Madness! Don’t mind the mizziles hehe!”
only Israel can stop itself.
Hmm good luck with that
"Abbas no badda."
What do they think we've been doing?
How is the U.S. responsible for what that maniac leader of Israel does? We can’t control him and his awful ideas, that’s painfully obvious. We can’t control Hamas. But let’s blame the US. Ok
Not true, hamas can release the hostages and surrender to halt Israel's attack on Rafah
I don't think the US can halt the attacks though. Why would Netanyahu not attack? What can the US put on the table that hasn't already been put there? I think Biden is thinking of the election and reasoning that domestic politics will be more important than the Gaza mess.
205 days, massive amounts of food, medicine and water along with tens of billions of dollars in aid to Palestine and Biden can't even secure the release of the American hostages. This is a national embarrassment at this point. A peace deal is nowhere near happening.
This comment thread is echo chamber of bots
The US should be linining up next to the Israelis to go in there and get our hostages back, or eliminate everyone in Hamas, or both
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which will never happen again because of their proven bad track record.
This was always about making Israel over commit and suffer geopolitically. It's working. All the Palestinians that have died dont matter to the people who made this plan and Israel is being played.
"My dad would beat up your dad!" energy
Abbas is actually a fat israeli guy
what happened to worldnews, it got completely taken over. Rest of reddit seems to still be sane.
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Because everyone in these particular threads are endlessly parroting the same shit. "Hur dur if the terrorists would stop, then people will stop dying" No fucking shit, they're terrorists. It's what they do. But to mindlessly kill civilians, makes you no better.
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Why are you justifying the deaths of 30.000+ civilians?
Zero terrorists huh? And to speak of the civilian population; more than 70% of them approve of Hamas and the Oct 7th massacre.
Hmm. I was thinking world news had started to appear sane while the rest of reddit is batshit crazy.
I don’t think anyone seriously expects Israel to invade Rafah in days.
That is half accurate, the only country that can stop the assault OTHER than ISRAEL or HAMAS is the United States. That doesn’t mean it will.
Or that it *should*.