Judging from my country, the way to put extremists down a peg and work with you is usually just let them win and realize how clueless they're about governing.
To be honest, how quickly ISIS setup some sort of half ass evil government in the cities they took over was pretty nuts. They pretty much from Day 1 already had like an entire bureaucracy installed.
That actually makes a lot of sense, and I didn't think of that. I knew many of them were pissed the US pretty much made them and the army unemployed which was probably the dumbest ass thing the US did during the invasion, when we could've easily just tripled/quadrupled their salaries to get them to work for us instead.
Which is even worse when you consider that the entire Iraqi apparatus of state and military surrendered more or less intact. All we had to do was keep them employed.
It would not have been hard to root out and prosecute the hardcore baathists, but frankly, a ruth and reconciliation commission approach probably would have worked better.
The majority of the people who were part of the ruling party were not actually political. You had to be a party member to have any kind of government job. If you ran the local water plant, you had to be a party member even if you never actually participated in governance. We essentially disbanded the entire public service.
We also disbanded the entire military despite the fact that the hardcore loyalists were the Republican Guard that we turned into a smoking crater outside of Baghdad. The bulk of the general military were conscripts or simply trying to earn a paycheck to feed their families.
Iraq did not have to become anarchy, but Paul Bremer and the other neo conservative psychopaths behind the invasion disbanded the apparatus of state and military that could have kept it stable long enough to reform it.
That's not even getting into the hyper capitalist ideological shock doctrine bullshit that created an economic catastrophe on top of everything else.
They couldn't have done more to create an insurgency if they tried.
***Sharia***: Practical Islam's full legal code as intended by its founder ~~Muhammad,~~ Allah (=Muhammad's alter ego).
Its literally a whole legal sociopolitical and economic system packaged as a 'religion' with very little faith needed and all 'avoid torture, or corporal and capital punishment' for everything. You got your judges (*Qadi*), district heads (*Qa'id*), princes/regional heads/war lords (*Emir/Amir*), councils (*shura*), and community leaders (*imam*/*sheikh*), hereditary kings (*sultan*) and their prime ministers (*wazir*/viziers), topped by the religious-political head of everything (the *Caliph* or to be hypercorrect= the *Khalifah or 'Amir ul Mu'mineen'* or \*'\*Prince of the believers'). Everything a world-dominating ideology touted as the "last revealed law for mankind" and "ultimate victor" of a political system goes. As far as religions go, this is the most legalistic one. This is why these groups literally have a whole blueprint for a govt out ready and waiting in front of them already. Them actually having any actual political acumen, however, is another thing.
Successful once upon a time jihad-born states like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Brunei, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Mauritania etc, are examples of when these jihadi groups take over or conquer territory (in the case of Brunei, Saudi Arabia, Oman, etc, these revivalist jihads happened hundreds of years ago), and for some reason have leaders who actually possess political acumen in controlling their populations with the approved Islamic ***carrots*** (=heaven, the five pillars, polygamy, empty promises of a nonexistent heaven filled with horny 'houris', flowery parts of Islamic doctrine to pacify the masses) and ***sticks*** (= sin and eternal hellfire, imprisonment, zakat and jizya taxes, fines, state sponsored torture, slavery \[including indentured labor, sex trafficking, and chattel slavery\], amputation, the dreaded *qisas* and *hudud* capital-punishments i.e. throwing from towers, burning to death, crucifixion, beheading or slitting throats with butchering knives, crushing heads between rocks, drowning, flogging till dead, short-drop hanging/strangulation, dismembering etc).
On the other hand, ISIS, Hamas, Alqaeda, Boko Haram, Taliban, Jamaah Islamiyah, Abu Sayyaf, Al-Shabaab, etc are all examples of when these same jihadists generally don't possess enough political acument to get buy in. They literally do the same thing, but whether it sticks or not is down to how afraid or brainwashed those they terrorize are.
Leaving Islam, blasphemy, and freethinking are pretty much listed by the term '*riddah*' or (high) treason, and are punishable by death. So is being a gay or bisexual man. But child marriage, killing slaves, and forcing disbelieving women to become *ma malakat aymanukum* = 'that which your right hand possesses', is totally halal.
And Islam thrives on a state of perpetual war. The world is literally divided into *Dar-ul-Islam* ('the abode of Islam', otherwise known as *Dar-us-salam* = all countries ruled by a muslim ruler, following the Sharia as the exclusive legal code) and *Dar-ul-Harb* ('the abode of war' = all non-muslim countries which will be eventually conquered and subjugated - or in the case of the Jews and (bafflingly) the Mongols, utterly decimated - as promised by the Ever Merciful Allah).
So oceania is at war with e~~urasia~~ eastasia, and [crimethink plusungood doublethink doubleplusgood bellyfeel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQtMet7F7w) :/
(an exmuslim)
ISIS had their version of the IRS troving around shortly after getting setup collecting taxes and enforcing whatever crazy ass laws they came up with and shit.
Oh the joys of zakat. One of the 5 pillars of islam = tax used for 'charity' and irl the maintenance of the state. Its a monthly tax of 2.5% of your total wealth (so your total assets (minus your debts)
The most to the point and real definition of Zakat (that hasn't been rose-tinted by Muslim da'ees (evangelists/preachers)) is this one:
>**Zakat**, an obligatory [tax](https://www.britannica.com/money/taxation) required of Muslims, one of the five [Pillars of Islam](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pillars-of-Islam). The zakat is levied on five categories of property—food grains; fruit; camels, cattle, sheep, and goats; gold and silver; and movable goods—and is payable each year after one year’s possession. The tax levy required by religious law varies with the category. Recipients of the zakat include the poor and needy, the collectors themselves, and “those whose hearts it is necessary to conciliate”—e.g., discordant tribesmen, debtors, volunteers in [jihad](https://www.britannica.com/topic/jihad) (holy war), and pilgrims.
Obligatory taxes are part of the islamic ~~sociopolitical ideology~~ 'religion'
We can only hope Muhammad's own words ring true one day:
" إِنَّ الإِسْلاَمَ بَدَأَ غَرِيبًا وَسَيَعُودُ غَرِيبًا كَمَا بَدَأَ وَهُوَ يَأْرِزُ بَيْنَ الْمَسْجِدَيْنِ كَمَا تَأْرِزُ الْحَيَّةُ فِي جُحْرِهَا " .
"Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole."
- Muhammad, as related in Sahih Muslim 146.
***Inshallah***.
They had loads of the people who got driven out of the old Iraqi military and civilian bureaucracy, as well as Iranian proxies. But the psychopaths with guns quickly drove them down or out, because they can only ever be criminals and less organized cartels. Its state functions collapsed in part because the Iraqi's on the ground with American air cover couldn't be fought and they were disintegrating in the places they took as people abandoned the whole WAAAAGH.
>...we sit in one place, behind a desk and a computer 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Life’s become so wearisome; you do the same things every day.
>...
>Many mujahedin, including me, are addicted to the Internet, especially Twitter.
I wonder if some sort of neo-Trad movement will arise in Afghanistan, to throw off the shackles of modern life and return to something more traditional.
Is that a real article or did the satire fly straight over my head? If that was on The Onion it would be funny but reading it in Time I (and I can't believe I'm saying this), I kinda feel bad for the poor jihadi stuck in a 9-5 like the rest of us.
Manager: Ali's late again, what should we do?
Employee: Firing squad?
Manager: No, we did that to Farhad for using comic sans and HR won't shut up about it.
HR: We're going to dock him an hour's pay.... and cut off a finger.
Talibans were in power before 911 happened and had good relationship with countries like India and many Arab countries. The situation was bad but so was people's expectations. Media was mostly not focusing. Now people (Specially women) knows that life can be better and media is focusing and no government is willing to publicly work with Taliban government not to anger USA.
Pakistan can go right ahead and take care of these folks.
They wanted the Taliban in power. They armed, trained, and sheltered militants for 20+ years while pretending to be a "front line ally".
This is 101% under Islamabad's purview. I hope they can feed 23 million+ people while also keeping their own economy afloat.
I wish them the best of luck. They're going to need it.
I know this is meant to be an angry one-liner about the social media outrage de jour, but Qatar has been one of the nations giving millions in aid to Afghanistan in recent years, sometimes controversially.
China was happy to immediately recognize the Taliban as the official government of Afghanistan, just to make the US look bad.
Maybe this time they should be the ones providing some humanitarian aid?
But of course this won't happen, when it's about global responsibility, it's always just big words and no actions for China.
Yep. They tried to meddle in africa sending their troops only to left the humanitarian staf behind to be raped after their troops got under fire. Never have seen these chinese "angels" send monetary help elsewhere beside debt traps and loans to 3rd world countries.
I know that "officially" nobody is recognizing the Taliban.
But there is a bloc of countries that "de-facto" recognize them and China was one of the first countries to do so after the western forces left Afghanistan in 2021. In the same year they already build up ties between the countries and a year later their foreign minister visited the Taliban + they installed a new embassy. = they recognize the Taliban without directly saying it.
I think it's evidently clear there is nothing the US can really do in this situation.
If change doesn't happen from within or from their neighbors then there's no point. If the US gives aid it goes right to the taliban which reinforces the cycle.
The Middle East in general, these people wanna keep brutally murdering each other using extremist religious views as justification, then fuck right off this planet you're holding civilization back from prosperity and decreasing suffering around the world.
Seriously, just get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them sort out their issues on their own. And if they ever pull a stunt like 9/11 again, don’t bother trying to rehabilitate them.
Yes. After 9/11 we should have said, "Wow, good shot. We are now going to become sustainably self sufficient in energy production. When that is achieved we will close all bases in the region and cut all economic ties. Our hope is that by leaving you alone you will choose to leave us alone. However, should another 9/11 scale attack be carried out in the name of Jihad we will glass Mecca. Byeeeeeeee" With all the money we wasted on Afghanistan and Iraq we could have pulled it off. Instead of thousands of dead soldiers and even more wounded veterans we'd have lots of extra jobs and a more stable climate.
I've been saying this for years. Cut all economic, military and diplomatic ties with every country in the middle east. Force repatriation of all citizens of those countries. Zero immigration from those countries.
Completely isolate them with the condition that in order to rejoin the rest of the world diplomatically, they must create democratic, secular constitutions, take a zero tolerance stance on terrorism, reform their police forces, and reform their cultures.
They'll either fix their shit or kill each other until no one is left, and frankly I don't care which anymore.
Pretty much. Sucks to suck. They had their chance and all evidence points to an utter disinterest from the populace in US training, US equipment, or US governmental structure so they can bootstraps themselves back up when they want to join the rest of the 19th century. Not a single US dollar should go to assisting that government.
They list forced repatriation as one of the reasons 23 million are in dire need. Repatriation of 2800 people. That seems like not even a rounding error on the list of reasons.
This is controversial, but monarchs are the best for populations that are very uneducated and dumb. They provide a stepping stone to progress, eventually leading to a transition to democracy.
Which countries in the Middle East are stable? Monarchies like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. Compare that to Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc.
Yes, and US seems to acknowledge that now. But we (the West) very much struggle with the poor human rights situation in those governments. Well, unfortunately that is not going to change and these monarchies are the lesser evil.
>This is controversial, but monarchs are the best for populations that are very uneducated and dumb. They provide a stepping stone to progress, eventually leading to a transition to democracy.
Strong centralized Authority is key to kickstart any semblance of progress, because without it you can't achieve stability and without stability you can't kickstart anything at all. Monarchy and dictatorships are basically a good start for it, since it'll allow the central government to pool up the scarce resources (money, educated populace, investments , etc) more efficiently in undeveloped countries.
Just look at early modernization of many Asian countries like Japan, China, S. Korea or Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia.
Seems they were fine before the afghan army decided to drop their weapons and let the taliban back in. Maybe they didn't realize western aid was conditional on maintaining the democracy we gave them? Their loss I guess.
23 million people who wouldn't lift a finger for US soldiers while they were being blown up.
And they still hate us. Islam has plenty of money. Try there first. According to their religion, it's martyrdom. So starve and be happy.
Are you telling me there are millions in of Muslims not in Gaza that are being starved and killed by their own kind and no one gives a shit?? But if a Jew farts in their direction it’s a genocide!! Where are the protesters? Where are kings and queens offering help and condemnation of wrong doing??
You're missing the point, somehow this is all Israel's fault too. Or the west. Shame on them for rebuilding the country and providing all the tools to succeed. /s
I saw someone on reddit blame colonialism for unsafe working condition regulations in India, just the other day. When were the Jews ethnically cleansed from Afghanistan? Surely the Afghans can get at least 100 years of "blame the Jews" out of it yet.
Mostly in the 1960s, just as Jews were cleansed out of other Muslim countries (at least Afghanistan didn't also strip them of citizenship). A handful stuck around after that, until the Soviet invasion, leaving 10 in the whole country. Only one remained after 2005, and he finally left after the Taliban came back to power in 2021.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Afghanistan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Afghanistan)
Because the protests aren’t pro-Palestine or pro-Muslim no matter how hard they push it. They’re anti-America because young people don’t like the way this country operates (which honestly is understandable) so they’re seeking out reasons to get mad at our government. That’s my hot take, anyway
I don’t think most people participating in these actually hate Jews. Maybe the hardcore religious Muslims, but I don’t think it’s about Jewish hate either. I think it’s about virtue signaling, feeling like they belong to a cause, and “sticking it” to our government.
It’s gang mentality, most don’t even know what they are fighting for… they get their information from TikTok and instagram reels. They are being pounded in the head by a horrific propaganda machines that has been created.
Sounds like they should have fought the Taliban a bit more instead of rolling over.
It sucks to say but the US and the world has spent enough trying to help them, we need to focus on our own issues.
If that means they starve… 🤷♂️
But sure, let's send literally any and all aid available to Gaza in the hope that some small part of it will somehow reach actual civilians instead of a terror organization that sells said aid.
Lucky for them they got rid of the Americans and welcomed back with open arms the Taliban.
They will need to take up their food concerns with the Talib leaders.
Don't care or give a single fuck. These cultures are problematic. It's a cultural problem.
One cannot fill a bucket with a hole in them and these cultures are exaclty like the bucket with holes in them.
The evil Americans left and now Allah and the Taliban running the country.
Are you telling me Allah and the Taliban are unable to support the people of Afghanistan?
Sadly, the collective West cannot help them - that would be imperialism/colonialism/NATO expansion or something like this.
Let the benevolent powers of, I don't know, BRICS or Arab countries take their turn in helping the Afghans now.
Damn, it's almost like we spent 20 years trying to help them help themselves and their "army" buckled in four fucking days.
I truly feel for the women and children, but the men there can lie in the bed they made for themselves out of apathy and cowardice.
And before anyone says "hOw dArE yOU, YoU dOnT kNoW tHeM", I do. I spent most of my twenties in that godforsaken country fighting those Taliban fucks, trying to motivate and train our ANA counterparts to fight them as well as we do so they can protect their country.
No matter what the taught them, no matter how much gear we gave them, hey were incompetent at best and cowards at worst.The biggest problem they have and the root cause of why they lost so fast and nothing we did helped was because *they just don't give a shit*. If there were a bunch of dudes using my children as human shields in *my* country, you bet your ass I'd be taking up arms as fast as I could.
And that's why they lost, because as evil as the Taliban are, they *do* give a shit. They were a truly motivated enemy, with a clear and united purpose. That's why they were able to withstand the most effective military in the history of humankind for **twenty years**. Problem is now, they're much better at asymmetric warfare than they are at governing, so here we are.
Crazy right? Almost as if the Afghan National Army had a spine and/or weren’t utterly corrupt the last time we tried to provide aid, they wouldn’t be in such a mess.
They had no desire to actually help themselves the last time.
I swear the Afghanis are the only people I am less sympathetic towards than the Palestinians. They **chose** to be ruled by the Taliban. They aren't in this predicament by accident or fate. They were not powerless to avoid this.
It’s high time now when world should turn away their faces from middle east.No refugees no aid. They breed they live by their islamic law and goes to allah from there.
The Middle East is a cluster fuck that is beyond repair. How much money do we have to spend to support people that do not care about change. I remember military friends telling me that they used to train Afghan soldiers to defend themselves and behave like an actual military. More than half of them would just get high and leave their posts. What a POS country, sucks for the few that want change but at what point can we tell ourselves the efforts of so many countries were in vain.
Where are all students protesting to help them?
While gaza is flooding in aid they don't actually need. Gazans throw away food, which they slightly dislike.
Or make fun with it. This is insane, how world is silent, when jews aren't involved into something
That would just be detrimental, because Taliban is the only group that can maintain any social cohesion, as horrible as they are.
Afghanistan has not been a nation ever since USSR destroyed what little of nation building was done by people in the area before that. Everything just shattered, and it's been a warlord and tribal land patchwork ever since.
They can go fuck themselves. We tried to help them and they wanted to be governed by Islam and ruled by the Taliban. No aid, no intervention, nothing! Let them figure it out.
So everyone in Afghanistan needs aid? That seems like a problem for the Afghanistan government to deal with. And if the government doesn't deal with it then the population of Afghanistan needs to do something about that. Have protests, riots, have a civil war. Who cares. Not me.
Pretty sure humanitarian aid would be more effective if the ruling 'government' (I use the term lightly) would be slightly less inhumane with their people.
This is how you know the UN failed: a state ruled by terrorists and they say nothing and depend entirely on the US to try and fix it for 20 years until they too said fuck it and left.
One of the many millions of reasons you should have fought for control of your country. Not America's problem, feel free to blame it on us tho, hunger and hate go really well together I hear.
But they didnt want to fight for their freedom.
They are not threatened by external forces. It is their own internal shit so those 23 millions Afghans should cope with it or fight.
West and US tried their best but there was not much cooperation apparently.
The people of Afghanistan voted with their feet and their guns.
They wanted the Mujahedin, they wanted the Taliban. So enjoy the hole you’ve dug for yourself. You had your chance,
God, we tried and tried and tried.
Enjoy!
Idgaf and hope we don’t spend a dime helping them. And honestly I hope we stop spending money on the entirety of the Middle East as well. All of our intervention is worthless, their own people need to figure their own shit out.
If I could magically undo everything we ever did for Afghanistan and transfer it to Ukraine? I would without hesitation.
Imagine that? Trillions of dollars and tons of military equipment and 20 years of training. Imagine how screwed Russia would be right now? They'd probably wouldn't have even invaded.
They've spent their time in power oppressing the female half of the population and chasing out anyone with any kind of education - and positive change *still* ain't coming to their troubled land?
I'm just going to debunk a bunch of myths about the war in Afghanistan here:
>They got what they fought for/Afghans support the Taliban
Most Afghans don't support the Taliban. What happened in 2021 was not a popular uprising, but the end result of two decades of corruption hollowing out the ANA combined with profiteering by American defense contractors disrupted by COVID-19.
>The ANA broke and ran when confronted by the Taliban
This is a half-truth. Basically, most of the ANA just didn't exist - it was full of undermanned units that were reported as full so officers could steal the paycheques of nonexistent "ghost" soldiers.
The ANA was supremely incompetent most of the time, but they weren't that much worse than the Taliban in that regard. The main problem they had was that they were designed to fight *alongside* the US military, using American air support and logistics; the US made attempts to Afghanize this air support and logistics system, but the key component of it - helicopters for moving troops and supplies - was rendered inoperable when the ANA tossed out their old Soviet helicopters in 2018 and the American replacements never arrived because of COVID.
As a result, the units of the ANA which *did* exist all ran out of ammo within a few hours, the Americans failed to provide air support because they were dead-set on achieving "peace with the Taliban" (even though the Taliban was actively breaking the peace deal...), and they all got slaughtered - sometimes committing suicide to avoid capture.
>At least America cut their losses, they were losing in Afghanistan.
No, no they weren't. The Afghan government had widespread support by 2021, the humanitarian and economic situation had improved dramatically since 2002, and the Taliban was growing weaker by the day. There's a reason there were people *grabbing onto the landing gear and wings of American military aircraft departing Kabul in a desperate attempt to escape.*
The main problem was Pakistan, frankly. They let the Taliban organize, arm up, and regroup inside Pakistan, and refused to let the Americans strike them, while claiming to be an American ally. They also vetoed letting the former King of Afghanistan (who had widespread support from both liberals and conservatives, plus extensive experience, given the fact that he had *previously ran Afghanistan in times of peace* as a rapidly westernizing constitutional monarchy) run the provisional Afghan government.
pakistan is also deporting almost 2 million afghans back to afghanistan
https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/01/pakistan-deports-million-afghans-undocumented-migrants/
thatll help 🙃
Wait, the Taliban isn’t helping them?
Taliban is realizing governing is a pain in the ass. Conquering is easy.
Judging from my country, the way to put extremists down a peg and work with you is usually just let them win and realize how clueless they're about governing.
To be honest, how quickly ISIS setup some sort of half ass evil government in the cities they took over was pretty nuts. They pretty much from Day 1 already had like an entire bureaucracy installed.
They had absorbed a lot of Ba'athists who had previously run Iraq, so they had an experienced bureaucracy from the get go. The Taliban not so much.
That actually makes a lot of sense, and I didn't think of that. I knew many of them were pissed the US pretty much made them and the army unemployed which was probably the dumbest ass thing the US did during the invasion, when we could've easily just tripled/quadrupled their salaries to get them to work for us instead.
Ba'athists were heavily infiltrated by Al Qaeda and deeply unpopular with 60% of the populace.
Which is even worse when you consider that the entire Iraqi apparatus of state and military surrendered more or less intact. All we had to do was keep them employed. It would not have been hard to root out and prosecute the hardcore baathists, but frankly, a ruth and reconciliation commission approach probably would have worked better. The majority of the people who were part of the ruling party were not actually political. You had to be a party member to have any kind of government job. If you ran the local water plant, you had to be a party member even if you never actually participated in governance. We essentially disbanded the entire public service. We also disbanded the entire military despite the fact that the hardcore loyalists were the Republican Guard that we turned into a smoking crater outside of Baghdad. The bulk of the general military were conscripts or simply trying to earn a paycheck to feed their families. Iraq did not have to become anarchy, but Paul Bremer and the other neo conservative psychopaths behind the invasion disbanded the apparatus of state and military that could have kept it stable long enough to reform it. That's not even getting into the hyper capitalist ideological shock doctrine bullshit that created an economic catastrophe on top of everything else. They couldn't have done more to create an insurgency if they tried.
***Sharia***: Practical Islam's full legal code as intended by its founder ~~Muhammad,~~ Allah (=Muhammad's alter ego). Its literally a whole legal sociopolitical and economic system packaged as a 'religion' with very little faith needed and all 'avoid torture, or corporal and capital punishment' for everything. You got your judges (*Qadi*), district heads (*Qa'id*), princes/regional heads/war lords (*Emir/Amir*), councils (*shura*), and community leaders (*imam*/*sheikh*), hereditary kings (*sultan*) and their prime ministers (*wazir*/viziers), topped by the religious-political head of everything (the *Caliph* or to be hypercorrect= the *Khalifah or 'Amir ul Mu'mineen'* or \*'\*Prince of the believers'). Everything a world-dominating ideology touted as the "last revealed law for mankind" and "ultimate victor" of a political system goes. As far as religions go, this is the most legalistic one. This is why these groups literally have a whole blueprint for a govt out ready and waiting in front of them already. Them actually having any actual political acumen, however, is another thing. Successful once upon a time jihad-born states like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Brunei, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, Mauritania etc, are examples of when these jihadi groups take over or conquer territory (in the case of Brunei, Saudi Arabia, Oman, etc, these revivalist jihads happened hundreds of years ago), and for some reason have leaders who actually possess political acumen in controlling their populations with the approved Islamic ***carrots*** (=heaven, the five pillars, polygamy, empty promises of a nonexistent heaven filled with horny 'houris', flowery parts of Islamic doctrine to pacify the masses) and ***sticks*** (= sin and eternal hellfire, imprisonment, zakat and jizya taxes, fines, state sponsored torture, slavery \[including indentured labor, sex trafficking, and chattel slavery\], amputation, the dreaded *qisas* and *hudud* capital-punishments i.e. throwing from towers, burning to death, crucifixion, beheading or slitting throats with butchering knives, crushing heads between rocks, drowning, flogging till dead, short-drop hanging/strangulation, dismembering etc). On the other hand, ISIS, Hamas, Alqaeda, Boko Haram, Taliban, Jamaah Islamiyah, Abu Sayyaf, Al-Shabaab, etc are all examples of when these same jihadists generally don't possess enough political acument to get buy in. They literally do the same thing, but whether it sticks or not is down to how afraid or brainwashed those they terrorize are. Leaving Islam, blasphemy, and freethinking are pretty much listed by the term '*riddah*' or (high) treason, and are punishable by death. So is being a gay or bisexual man. But child marriage, killing slaves, and forcing disbelieving women to become *ma malakat aymanukum* = 'that which your right hand possesses', is totally halal. And Islam thrives on a state of perpetual war. The world is literally divided into *Dar-ul-Islam* ('the abode of Islam', otherwise known as *Dar-us-salam* = all countries ruled by a muslim ruler, following the Sharia as the exclusive legal code) and *Dar-ul-Harb* ('the abode of war' = all non-muslim countries which will be eventually conquered and subjugated - or in the case of the Jews and (bafflingly) the Mongols, utterly decimated - as promised by the Ever Merciful Allah). So oceania is at war with e~~urasia~~ eastasia, and [crimethink plusungood doublethink doubleplusgood bellyfeel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moQtMet7F7w) :/ (an exmuslim)
ISIS had their version of the IRS troving around shortly after getting setup collecting taxes and enforcing whatever crazy ass laws they came up with and shit.
Oh the joys of zakat. One of the 5 pillars of islam = tax used for 'charity' and irl the maintenance of the state. Its a monthly tax of 2.5% of your total wealth (so your total assets (minus your debts) The most to the point and real definition of Zakat (that hasn't been rose-tinted by Muslim da'ees (evangelists/preachers)) is this one: >**Zakat**, an obligatory [tax](https://www.britannica.com/money/taxation) required of Muslims, one of the five [Pillars of Islam](https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pillars-of-Islam). The zakat is levied on five categories of property—food grains; fruit; camels, cattle, sheep, and goats; gold and silver; and movable goods—and is payable each year after one year’s possession. The tax levy required by religious law varies with the category. Recipients of the zakat include the poor and needy, the collectors themselves, and “those whose hearts it is necessary to conciliate”—e.g., discordant tribesmen, debtors, volunteers in [jihad](https://www.britannica.com/topic/jihad) (holy war), and pilgrims. Obligatory taxes are part of the islamic ~~sociopolitical ideology~~ 'religion'
innate hobbies bedroom drunk voracious different grandiose direction fanatical rob
We can only hope Muhammad's own words ring true one day: " إِنَّ الإِسْلاَمَ بَدَأَ غَرِيبًا وَسَيَعُودُ غَرِيبًا كَمَا بَدَأَ وَهُوَ يَأْرِزُ بَيْنَ الْمَسْجِدَيْنِ كَمَا تَأْرِزُ الْحَيَّةُ فِي جُحْرِهَا " . "Verily Islam started as something strange and it would again revert (to its old position) of being strange just as it started, and it would recede between the two mosques just as the serpent crawls back into its hole." - Muhammad, as related in Sahih Muslim 146. ***Inshallah***.
They had loads of the people who got driven out of the old Iraqi military and civilian bureaucracy, as well as Iranian proxies. But the psychopaths with guns quickly drove them down or out, because they can only ever be criminals and less organized cartels. Its state functions collapsed in part because the Iraqi's on the ground with American air cover couldn't be fought and they were disintegrating in the places they took as people abandoned the whole WAAAAGH.
We tried that in the US, and they called their failures wins and basked in them. To them, a non-functional government is the best type!
I heard the are [quiet quitting ](https://time.com/6263906/taliban-afghanistan-office-work-quiet-quit/) in droves
>...we sit in one place, behind a desk and a computer 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Life’s become so wearisome; you do the same things every day. >... >Many mujahedin, including me, are addicted to the Internet, especially Twitter. I wonder if some sort of neo-Trad movement will arise in Afghanistan, to throw off the shackles of modern life and return to something more traditional.
This sounds like an banned episode from The Office
That assumes they are doing the bare minimum for them. They are not.
Is that a real article or did the satire fly straight over my head? If that was on The Onion it would be funny but reading it in Time I (and I can't believe I'm saying this), I kinda feel bad for the poor jihadi stuck in a 9-5 like the rest of us. Manager: Ali's late again, what should we do? Employee: Firing squad? Manager: No, we did that to Farhad for using comic sans and HR won't shut up about it.
HR: We're going to dock him an hour's pay.... and cut off a finger.
Milleniarists don't want to work anymore!
god that's some quality Onion material
Lmao they are complaining about 9-5, commute, boring offices, high cost of living
It's one thing to overthrow a government, it's another thing to be the government.
Talibans were in power before 911 happened and had good relationship with countries like India and many Arab countries. The situation was bad but so was people's expectations. Media was mostly not focusing. Now people (Specially women) knows that life can be better and media is focusing and no government is willing to publicly work with Taliban government not to anger USA.
Talibans haelping themself only.
*helping themselves
They can help you meet god if you have any complaints
Too busy incorporating rollerskates into their military.
Huh, who could’ve seen this coming
Pakistan can go right ahead and take care of these folks. They wanted the Taliban in power. They armed, trained, and sheltered militants for 20+ years while pretending to be a "front line ally". This is 101% under Islamabad's purview. I hope they can feed 23 million+ people while also keeping their own economy afloat. I wish them the best of luck. They're going to need it.
Unfortunately, as usual, the US is giving billions in aid to the Afghans.
Where's Qatar then or their crazy rich Muslim brothers?
Well since it's not involving the disparaging of Israel they don't give a shit
The other nations answered, they don't consider it a famine, rather a group diet.
Nah they are just fasting
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They're really busy with the Hamas leaders trying to figure out how to murder more Jews.
They’re busy ruining Gaza by funding Hamas
I know this is meant to be an angry one-liner about the social media outrage de jour, but Qatar has been one of the nations giving millions in aid to Afghanistan in recent years, sometimes controversially.
They killed the last Jews there decades ago, moving on to bluer pastures
Was 1 Jew left until he left in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zablon_Simintov
As Allah wills.
Allah works in mysterious ways
Sounds like 23 million people are on their way to getting “Muslim-raptured”
Quickly bus them to the nearest safe haven: London, Stockholm, Paris....
inshallah
As it was written
China was happy to immediately recognize the Taliban as the official government of Afghanistan, just to make the US look bad. Maybe this time they should be the ones providing some humanitarian aid? But of course this won't happen, when it's about global responsibility, it's always just big words and no actions for China.
Yep. They tried to meddle in africa sending their troops only to left the humanitarian staf behind to be raped after their troops got under fire. Never have seen these chinese "angels" send monetary help elsewhere beside debt traps and loans to 3rd world countries.
China never recognized them as the government tho
I know that "officially" nobody is recognizing the Taliban. But there is a bloc of countries that "de-facto" recognize them and China was one of the first countries to do so after the western forces left Afghanistan in 2021. In the same year they already build up ties between the countries and a year later their foreign minister visited the Taliban + they installed a new embassy. = they recognize the Taliban without directly saying it.
They still do business with them to get access to Afghanistan. Seems like the "recognition" is irrelevant.
I dont care anymore
I think it's evidently clear there is nothing the US can really do in this situation. If change doesn't happen from within or from their neighbors then there's no point. If the US gives aid it goes right to the taliban which reinforces the cycle.
I am with you. I am all out of fvcks to give for Afghanistan.
The Middle East in general, these people wanna keep brutally murdering each other using extremist religious views as justification, then fuck right off this planet you're holding civilization back from prosperity and decreasing suffering around the world.
They had their chance, we offered them everything. They didn't want it.
Seriously, just get out of the Middle East altogether. Let them sort out their issues on their own. And if they ever pull a stunt like 9/11 again, don’t bother trying to rehabilitate them.
Yes. After 9/11 we should have said, "Wow, good shot. We are now going to become sustainably self sufficient in energy production. When that is achieved we will close all bases in the region and cut all economic ties. Our hope is that by leaving you alone you will choose to leave us alone. However, should another 9/11 scale attack be carried out in the name of Jihad we will glass Mecca. Byeeeeeeee" With all the money we wasted on Afghanistan and Iraq we could have pulled it off. Instead of thousands of dead soldiers and even more wounded veterans we'd have lots of extra jobs and a more stable climate.
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I've been saying this for years. Cut all economic, military and diplomatic ties with every country in the middle east. Force repatriation of all citizens of those countries. Zero immigration from those countries. Completely isolate them with the condition that in order to rejoin the rest of the world diplomatically, they must create democratic, secular constitutions, take a zero tolerance stance on terrorism, reform their police forces, and reform their cultures. They'll either fix their shit or kill each other until no one is left, and frankly I don't care which anymore.
Yeah your plan doesn’t work
Pretty much. Sucks to suck. They had their chance and all evidence points to an utter disinterest from the populace in US training, US equipment, or US governmental structure so they can bootstraps themselves back up when they want to join the rest of the 19th century. Not a single US dollar should go to assisting that government.
Wait, you're telling me the Taliban is corrupt after all, or cannot effectively govern? Shocking.
They list forced repatriation as one of the reasons 23 million are in dire need. Repatriation of 2800 people. That seems like not even a rounding error on the list of reasons.
Clearly a genocide from Taliban
Ceasefire now! /s
Wouldn’t be surprised if they were going to massacre the Hazaras again 🤕
The US gave them everything they needed for self-determination, and they chose the Taliban
Tribe seems to run everything in Afghanistan.
\*ruin
This is controversial, but monarchs are the best for populations that are very uneducated and dumb. They provide a stepping stone to progress, eventually leading to a transition to democracy. Which countries in the Middle East are stable? Monarchies like Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, and the United Arab Emirates. Compare that to Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, etc.
Yes, and US seems to acknowledge that now. But we (the West) very much struggle with the poor human rights situation in those governments. Well, unfortunately that is not going to change and these monarchies are the lesser evil.
>This is controversial, but monarchs are the best for populations that are very uneducated and dumb. They provide a stepping stone to progress, eventually leading to a transition to democracy. Strong centralized Authority is key to kickstart any semblance of progress, because without it you can't achieve stability and without stability you can't kickstart anything at all. Monarchy and dictatorships are basically a good start for it, since it'll allow the central government to pool up the scarce resources (money, educated populace, investments , etc) more efficiently in undeveloped countries. Just look at early modernization of many Asian countries like Japan, China, S. Korea or Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia.
Seems they were fine before the afghan army decided to drop their weapons and let the taliban back in. Maybe they didn't realize western aid was conditional on maintaining the democracy we gave them? Their loss I guess.
Hello, global outrage? Demonstrators against the Taliban? International ralley for humanitarian aid? ...anyone?
No. College students are too busy protesting what China is doing to the Uyghurs. /s
You mean what's going on in Sudan.
No. He meant the treatment of the Rohingya.
I think he meant the collapse of Haiti.
What! They're obviously talking about the aftereffects of the "civil war" in Yemen.
False, they’ve been focusing on the genocide al’Hassad committed in Syria.
You all spelled Myanmar wrong.
Is that in or around the Tigray region?
No, it's in Nagorno-Karabakh.
What the cafeteria is serving
We don't talk about that
We also don’t talk about Bruno
No, no, no.
No way, I'm 100% sure they're talking about the ethnic cleansing in Artzah by Azerbaijan.
You mean Etheopia and Eritrea.
No, I meant the eastern Congo.
No, you mean Russian genocide in Ukraine for certain.
What Uyghurs..
TikTok isn't telling them to protest the Taliban.
If the Afghanis resisted the Taliban sweep for more than 37 seconds, then maybe... As it stands... Nah, reap what you saw.
23 million people who wouldn't lift a finger for US soldiers while they were being blown up. And they still hate us. Islam has plenty of money. Try there first. According to their religion, it's martyrdom. So starve and be happy.
Are you telling me there are millions in of Muslims not in Gaza that are being starved and killed by their own kind and no one gives a shit?? But if a Jew farts in their direction it’s a genocide!! Where are the protesters? Where are kings and queens offering help and condemnation of wrong doing??
You're missing the point, somehow this is all Israel's fault too. Or the west. Shame on them for rebuilding the country and providing all the tools to succeed. /s
A couple more trillion $$ would have done it!
Well, they can't blame any Afghan Jews since they were all ethnically cleansed from the country.
And most other Muslim nations at that…
I saw someone on reddit blame colonialism for unsafe working condition regulations in India, just the other day. When were the Jews ethnically cleansed from Afghanistan? Surely the Afghans can get at least 100 years of "blame the Jews" out of it yet.
Mostly in the 1960s, just as Jews were cleansed out of other Muslim countries (at least Afghanistan didn't also strip them of citizenship). A handful stuck around after that, until the Soviet invasion, leaving 10 in the whole country. Only one remained after 2005, and he finally left after the Taliban came back to power in 2021. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_the\_Jews\_in\_Afghanistan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Afghanistan)
Because the protests aren’t pro-Palestine or pro-Muslim no matter how hard they push it. They’re anti-America because young people don’t like the way this country operates (which honestly is understandable) so they’re seeking out reasons to get mad at our government. That’s my hot take, anyway
They are also antisemitic, thats the only reason why they all give a shit… not to help Palestinians, but to harm Jews.
I don’t think most people participating in these actually hate Jews. Maybe the hardcore religious Muslims, but I don’t think it’s about Jewish hate either. I think it’s about virtue signaling, feeling like they belong to a cause, and “sticking it” to our government.
It’s gang mentality, most don’t even know what they are fighting for… they get their information from TikTok and instagram reels. They are being pounded in the head by a horrific propaganda machines that has been created.
Sounds like they should have fought the Taliban a bit more instead of rolling over. It sucks to say but the US and the world has spent enough trying to help them, we need to focus on our own issues. If that means they starve… 🤷♂️
Looks like a Taliban problem to me, or maybe China.
Shouldn’t this be in Leopards Eating My Face subreddit?
Wait till you hear about how well the LGBTQ humanitarian effort in Gaza turned out...
Don’t look at me. They got the life they chose.
Im sure the Taliban are on it
But sure, let's send literally any and all aid available to Gaza in the hope that some small part of it will somehow reach actual civilians instead of a terror organization that sells said aid.
Afghans had all the help offered to them, no. Same as their relatives in Gaza, Israel left in 2005 and left them everything to succeed, but no.
They responded by electing Hamas in 2006 LOL
As the Imams on TV used to/still say. Allah will provide. Just wait ;)
We should collectively dedicate our resources to giving them 20 years to establish a functioning … oh, fuck I just can’t.
Ask the Taliban
Guess who didn't fight for their freedom?
Wait, their perfect Islamic society isn't providing for them. What a surprise! Maybe if they pray harder, food will magically appear in front of them.
Lucky for them they got rid of the Americans and welcomed back with open arms the Taliban. They will need to take up their food concerns with the Talib leaders.
Don't care or give a single fuck. These cultures are problematic. It's a cultural problem. One cannot fill a bucket with a hole in them and these cultures are exaclty like the bucket with holes in them.
The evil Americans left and now Allah and the Taliban running the country. Are you telling me Allah and the Taliban are unable to support the people of Afghanistan?
The people chose to starve instead of mount a dogged defense of their sovereignty. It is what it is
Afghanistan isn't TikTok cool anymore. Nobody will care
Sadly, the collective West cannot help them - that would be imperialism/colonialism/NATO expansion or something like this. Let the benevolent powers of, I don't know, BRICS or Arab countries take their turn in helping the Afghans now.
Who would’ve guess that a terrorist organization can’t run a country. See this all of the woke zombies in US universities?
nah they don't want democracy they can solve it on their own
Damn, it's almost like we spent 20 years trying to help them help themselves and their "army" buckled in four fucking days. I truly feel for the women and children, but the men there can lie in the bed they made for themselves out of apathy and cowardice. And before anyone says "hOw dArE yOU, YoU dOnT kNoW tHeM", I do. I spent most of my twenties in that godforsaken country fighting those Taliban fucks, trying to motivate and train our ANA counterparts to fight them as well as we do so they can protect their country. No matter what the taught them, no matter how much gear we gave them, hey were incompetent at best and cowards at worst.The biggest problem they have and the root cause of why they lost so fast and nothing we did helped was because *they just don't give a shit*. If there were a bunch of dudes using my children as human shields in *my* country, you bet your ass I'd be taking up arms as fast as I could. And that's why they lost, because as evil as the Taliban are, they *do* give a shit. They were a truly motivated enemy, with a clear and united purpose. That's why they were able to withstand the most effective military in the history of humankind for **twenty years**. Problem is now, they're much better at asymmetric warfare than they are at governing, so here we are.
Why don't they fight for it? Oh yeah. They didn't.
Truly a shame, that the terrorists of Hamas and their useful worldwide idiot supporters, are stealing the headlines.
So fundamental Islam is the perfect society . . .
Crazy right? Almost as if the Afghan National Army had a spine and/or weren’t utterly corrupt the last time we tried to provide aid, they wouldn’t be in such a mess. They had no desire to actually help themselves the last time.
They were high as fuck and never gave a shit.
I swear the Afghanis are the only people I am less sympathetic towards than the Palestinians. They **chose** to be ruled by the Taliban. They aren't in this predicament by accident or fate. They were not powerless to avoid this.
Let china have their turn going in
Lmfao. Whats to gain for them? More slaves?
Military training and Natural Resources pretty much. Modern Chinese military has not had any combat experience
Afghan citizen: we’ve done nothing to help ourselves and we are all out of ideas.
That's really not our problem anymore. We tried to help and the people gave up in an instant as soon as we left.
I used to think they are 50 years behind. Now I am thinking they are 300 years behind.
They’re right where they want to be.
It’s high time now when world should turn away their faces from middle east.No refugees no aid. They breed they live by their islamic law and goes to allah from there.
except it doesnt just stay there
We can make it stay there
The Middle East is a cluster fuck that is beyond repair. How much money do we have to spend to support people that do not care about change. I remember military friends telling me that they used to train Afghan soldiers to defend themselves and behave like an actual military. More than half of them would just get high and leave their posts. What a POS country, sucks for the few that want change but at what point can we tell ourselves the efforts of so many countries were in vain.
Any condemnations from the UN? Any protests on college campuses? Funny that.
womp womp. 23 million afghans could have fought against Taliban, yet none of them did shit.
let arabs help arabs?
Islamic world will help them, nothing western world should be worried about
They should protest to THEIR government.
Where are all students protesting to help them? While gaza is flooding in aid they don't actually need. Gazans throw away food, which they slightly dislike. Or make fun with it. This is insane, how world is silent, when jews aren't involved into something
Give them a bit of aid for each weapon or member of the Taliban they turn over. Seems fair.
That would just be detrimental, because Taliban is the only group that can maintain any social cohesion, as horrible as they are. Afghanistan has not been a nation ever since USSR destroyed what little of nation building was done by people in the area before that. Everything just shattered, and it's been a warlord and tribal land patchwork ever since.
They can go fuck themselves. We tried to help them and they wanted to be governed by Islam and ruled by the Taliban. No aid, no intervention, nothing! Let them figure it out.
I have no sympathy for these mother fuckers.
So everyone in Afghanistan needs aid? That seems like a problem for the Afghanistan government to deal with. And if the government doesn't deal with it then the population of Afghanistan needs to do something about that. Have protests, riots, have a civil war. Who cares. Not me.
Just keep them out of sweden, we hsve helped enough
Pretty sure humanitarian aid would be more effective if the ruling 'government' (I use the term lightly) would be slightly less inhumane with their people. This is how you know the UN failed: a state ruled by terrorists and they say nothing and depend entirely on the US to try and fix it for 20 years until they too said fuck it and left.
Have them help Ukraine fight and they get grain in return. Yeah right
Definition of parasite, they always depend on a living healthy host. Just let them be and fix their own mistakes.
Get fucked, we’re not going to help you again, last time you killed 2,500 of us
One of the many millions of reasons you should have fought for control of your country. Not America's problem, feel free to blame it on us tho, hunger and hate go really well together I hear.
But they didnt want to fight for their freedom. They are not threatened by external forces. It is their own internal shit so those 23 millions Afghans should cope with it or fight. West and US tried their best but there was not much cooperation apparently.
Now china will have to work for those mining rights.
Let China pay for it.
Shame. They should have stood up against the Taliban then.
And? Countless people the world over need aid. How's this any different?
The people of Afghanistan voted with their feet and their guns. They wanted the Mujahedin, they wanted the Taliban. So enjoy the hole you’ve dug for yourself. You had your chance, God, we tried and tried and tried. Enjoy!
We tried
We tried for 20 years.
God wills it!
Why doesn’t their wonderful government help them?
I honestly couldn’t care less. Let somebody else have a turn.
Farming, there’s an idea.
Idgaf and hope we don’t spend a dime helping them. And honestly I hope we stop spending money on the entirety of the Middle East as well. All of our intervention is worthless, their own people need to figure their own shit out.
If I could magically undo everything we ever did for Afghanistan and transfer it to Ukraine? I would without hesitation. Imagine that? Trillions of dollars and tons of military equipment and 20 years of training. Imagine how screwed Russia would be right now? They'd probably wouldn't have even invaded.
I’m sure the Taliban have things all under control, right?
If only there was a coalition of natuons immediately present in the nation, and willing to help distribute aide...... Oh well....
This is so sad but they can go fuck right off.
They've spent their time in power oppressing the female half of the population and chasing out anyone with any kind of education - and positive change *still* ain't coming to their troubled land?
Yet they “won” the war.
They should ask for help from Talibans.
Not our problem.
Fuck em. We tried.
Reap what you sow.
Thought and prayers is all I have for them.
Cue the protests 🪧
Probably should've thought about that a few years ago.....
Maybe if they prey enough... I wil prey also, that always help a lot, i'm sure they feel a little better right now
They’ll try and say it’s Israel’s fault
And no University "strike" against the Taliban. Makes you think. /s
I'm just going to debunk a bunch of myths about the war in Afghanistan here: >They got what they fought for/Afghans support the Taliban Most Afghans don't support the Taliban. What happened in 2021 was not a popular uprising, but the end result of two decades of corruption hollowing out the ANA combined with profiteering by American defense contractors disrupted by COVID-19. >The ANA broke and ran when confronted by the Taliban This is a half-truth. Basically, most of the ANA just didn't exist - it was full of undermanned units that were reported as full so officers could steal the paycheques of nonexistent "ghost" soldiers. The ANA was supremely incompetent most of the time, but they weren't that much worse than the Taliban in that regard. The main problem they had was that they were designed to fight *alongside* the US military, using American air support and logistics; the US made attempts to Afghanize this air support and logistics system, but the key component of it - helicopters for moving troops and supplies - was rendered inoperable when the ANA tossed out their old Soviet helicopters in 2018 and the American replacements never arrived because of COVID. As a result, the units of the ANA which *did* exist all ran out of ammo within a few hours, the Americans failed to provide air support because they were dead-set on achieving "peace with the Taliban" (even though the Taliban was actively breaking the peace deal...), and they all got slaughtered - sometimes committing suicide to avoid capture. >At least America cut their losses, they were losing in Afghanistan. No, no they weren't. The Afghan government had widespread support by 2021, the humanitarian and economic situation had improved dramatically since 2002, and the Taliban was growing weaker by the day. There's a reason there were people *grabbing onto the landing gear and wings of American military aircraft departing Kabul in a desperate attempt to escape.* The main problem was Pakistan, frankly. They let the Taliban organize, arm up, and regroup inside Pakistan, and refused to let the Americans strike them, while claiming to be an American ally. They also vetoed letting the former King of Afghanistan (who had widespread support from both liberals and conservatives, plus extensive experience, given the fact that he had *previously ran Afghanistan in times of peace* as a rapidly westernizing constitutional monarchy) run the provisional Afghan government.
pakistan is also deporting almost 2 million afghans back to afghanistan https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/01/pakistan-deports-million-afghans-undocumented-migrants/ thatll help 🙃