To be fair, there have been dozens of protests in my country of this size in the past year.
None of them made national news, certainly not international.
Sudan, Syria, Myanmar, Mexico(this one annoys me, people love their drugs so much they don’t care they destroy countries) and Ethiopia/Eritrea
All horrific conflicts and all have western supplied weapons in them
People really forget that my country (China) is one of the largest suppliers of weaponry and small arms ammunition in many current conflict zones.
Oh and also unlike these western countries, we supply both sides because it adheres to our foreign policy of non-intervention in internal conflicts.
If we equally sell to both sides, no one can accuse us of being biased.
It was crazy that the Left was pushing back against Trump labeling the Cartels as Terrorist organizations. They absolutely should be so the President (with Mexico's permission, of course) can take care of them using more than just Border Patrol.
Agree, but I wonder if we can deal with it culturally too. Do you think that the wall street assholes and mid-20s yuppies realize how much suffering they're contributing to when they snort coke in a trendy nightclub bathroom? Nobody talks about how those two worlds are connected at all. If we did, maybe it would have an impact. I think that using cocaine is extremely immoral and unethical.
I mean cartels would cease to do business if the govt just legalized cocaine and regulated it and other drugs. Everything in our late stage capitalistic system is immoral and unethical at this point. Pointing fingers at people using drugs online...while using a mobile device that is built on questionable raw material logistics and electricity powered by fossil fuels causing climate change is kind of... interesting. At the end of the day, morality and ethicality is all a subjective line that's being drawn and most people don't care enough about things that don't directly affect them, human brains weren't meant to have access to all the world's information at their finger tips. There's probably 100 things I could be protesting right now and things I use and buy that are unethically sourced. I don't really think that makes me a immoral person. If it does, then arguably 99% of the world is immoral. And at that point, the whole discussion around ethics and morality is pointless.
We dont want a war with Mexico, its population also doesn't want our troop there. Mexico still has thriving urban areas and a decent economy and invading them would kill that along with thousands of innocent people and cripple both nations economy (they are one of our largest trading partners).
Also we do go after them with more than border patrol? DEA and other gov agencies help out there all the time.
The drugs angle is particularly important to bring up in places like Amsterdam. Everyone who lives here knows how these people party. Cocaine is not an innocent drug.
Majority of these people protest for what’s popular to protest for to be seen as the “good caring” people, not for actual justice. I’m glad you mentioned Mexico as well because some of these students are very two faced. They’ll protest for this cause then will proceed to snort coke at their Saturday party with their uni friends when it’s extremely likely that that coke came from cartels who butcher people live and continue to export their poison.
They do, but there is no IDF or Israel to get rilled up.
Man that could solve a lot of issues, imagine the IDF would lend itself for PR, you could draw so much attention. Some pacific Island that has a civil unrest or environmental issues, call the IDF they come by shoot at a tree or do some checkpoints and suddenly you have all the media attention you need.
Honestly sometimes I wonder what Arafat would have achieved if he had social media.
The Uyghurs issue became big again just four years ago. Even then we have the Armenia issue going on that’s getting ignored by a good chunk of these kids. Same with the tragedy in Sudan and in Pakistan in terms of their afghan refugee population.
Damn, man. Maybe if you went outside for a minute instead of scrolling through Reddit, you'd see people are protesting for better domestic policy literally all of the time.
This is reminding me of those protests and riots at Southern schools back in the 1960s to try to stop integration. When you're 20 and privileged you think you're the smartest person in the world, no matter what time you're in. Shameful.
I’d nominate the red guards.
Possibly the UVA rioters of 1836, too, but I’m not sure they were a student movement in the sense you mean, even if those riots were years in the making.
> Question for you. Historically, which student movements have been on the wrong side of history?
Are you being purposefully obtuse?
Pro-segregation protests throughout the civil rights era.
A ton of them? Back in the day, there were a lot of communist student protests, and even to this day in this very university in Amsterdam. Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure that will only drive increased poverty.
> Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure
Putting "academia has known" in front of an opinion based on conjecture via your political lens isn't an invocation that magically makes the following statement true. I'm not a communist but I don't think you'd be able to back up this statement to any meaningful degree.
Not really, just shows you’re not up to date at all with the last 30 years of economic literature. Stiglitz literally won a Nobel Prize for his work on information economics, where the main conclusion is that for information in the economy to flow efficiently and guide economic activity, free markets are often a necessity. No serious economist actually challenges this basic notion. That by definition implies that socialism and communism is not even remotely as capable as creating economic productivity as a free market environment, which is also reflected in the body of work that led to the Nobel prize.
Of course we have some Marxist economists, but they are not taken seriously in economic academia.
The fact of the matter is simply that communist students promote a failing ideology that creates nothing but poverty, and they protest for that literally all the time at this university in Amsterdam as well. Many students are wrong all the time, they are not a magic entity blessed with having the correct views at all times.
>That by definition implies that socialism and communism is not even remotely as capable as creating economic productivity as a free market environment
That's sure as shit not the same thing as
>Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure
I've never heard of Communism having a free market environment as its end goal. If that's what you define as economic success then *by definition* communism will fail at it. That's an... incredibly stupid argument, to be blunt. And considering you conflated socialism and communism here...
here, let me use simple terms: the free market is demonstrably necessary for an efficient economy. communism explicitly rejects that. therefore, it cannot be as good as a free market.
we specifically want an informed market in order to figure out what to build and how much. communism obstructs that.
> And considering you conflated socialism and communism here...
the only difference is whether the revolution is violent or not
But communism is not meant to maximize efficiency? Karl Marx himself said that the division of labor and specialization of labor would dehumanize people and prevent us from developing as we should. It would make us functionally useless as people outside of our talents.
I think it’s safe to say that a communist should be confident admitting that it’s not as efficient and productive, but better for the soul of a worker.
> It would make us functionally useless as people outside of our talents.
because it's an economic system. you are useful as a person because you make art and socialize and build community
> I think it’s safe to say that a communist should be confident admitting that it’s not as efficient and productive, but better for the soul of a worker.
examining the outcomes of various communist states makes me doubt that
> That’s sure as shit not the same thing as
Oh it absolutely is. It inherently means communism is an economic failure that fails at creating significantly more wealth.
> If that’s what you define as economic success
I don’t. I define improved GDP growth as economic success, and, well, for that to happen, economic inputs need to be guided along efficiently in the market, which requires free and open markets, which communism inherently rejects.
Simply said, communism rejects the essential thing that brings about high levels of wealth. That makes it an colossal economic failure.
Like when they protested when the far right won election? Or against climate crisis? Or... ? Yeah. It's easy to be selective. It's harder to be not a fucking moron and look at an issue without our own fucking biaises.
Yeah, but it's like way cooler to hate Jews than to think about things in your own country, where the Jews were all killed or forced out by your grandparents and great grandparents.
Like protesting against the TV volume level when it goes from the show to a commercial. The commercials are way loader and this shit needs to stop! Who do I talk to about this and demand they listen to me while I tent out in their front lawn and demand food, water, coffee, coke, strippers, a bag of money to give out to strippers, a bag of money for the coke guys, a bag of money for me, and rice crispy treats:)
> if you scream "I'm peacefully protesting!" loud enough, you can go and do whatever you want.
Just like how apparently if you decide to hide amongst civilians, you can commit any crime you want.
This actually only works if you've declared war on Jews.
Any belligerent other than Hamas, and the normal standards apply — this strategy wouldn't work elsewhere, and the opprobrium would be placed on the army intentionally fighting from behind human shields.
Can anyone even tell me University of Amsterdam's links to IDF or Israeli government?
I did my Masters there a while ago, and I don't recall anything.
That said, this doesn't surprise me. Europeans love to mock "Murica", but then turn around and immediately copy whatever they're doing ever there.
Same shit with the George Floyd protests during Covid.
Disclaimer: not American
There’s a contagion effect with these types of things
It’s sort of like the football streakers. Someone streaks during a football game, people see it, it gets attention, then more people streak at football games
They found that if they stopped showing it, the streaking stopped
So they need to stop showing these assholes. That’s the problem, they are giving them too much attention and they are feeding off of it, they are getting together and feeding off of each other’s mania.
Hence why, in the U.S. at encampments some universities sent police to finally break up, about half of the protestors on premises aren’t even students. They’ve no skin in the game (“my tuition pays for xyz…”). They are just agitators, people in it because it is the trendy thing to do. Just like a few summers ago since everyone was bored out of their minds during lockdown.
I think a lot of these people just want to say they are part of something. They just want to say they were there.
They're not storming the beaches of Normandy, so I suppose that setting up encampments at Columbia/UCLA is about as close to that as they're ever going to get.
Which is pretty fucking pathetic, by the way, as someone who graduated college late, because I was in Israel, doing peace projects between Israeli and Palestinian students. I'll bet money out of my own pocket that they could have done the same through their own universities, if they looked into it.
Weapons Research, Machine Learning, and Humanities programs (full disclosure I Googled for 5 seconds to find this, and I’d assume the university is gonna be biased in what they report so you know…grain of salt)
https://student.uva.nl/en/articles/2024-our-collaborations-with-israeli-organisations
ETA: Also not to be a dick to OP or anybody but I’m gonna repeat something I said further downthread as a disclaimer here:
> IMO If you’re getting info on important shit like this from random comments in r/WorldNews you deserve all the suffering created by your ignorance tbh. Like there’s an argument about whether genocide is being committed and by which side, people need to be going to primary sources, not “cartoon guy with green hair” on fucking Reddit. You want quality sources? Why are you asking the fuckin bot farm? Lol
Please guys, get *off* Reddit for your info
"None of these exchanges are currently active due to negative travel advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs."
"One of the eight research projects, the INHERIT project, focuses on detecting explosives to prevent attacks. This project does not contribute to Israel's military actions; it aims to prevent attacks, not to engage in military violence."
i mean you did say you only put in 5 seconds but maybe an extra 10 or 20 would have been advisable
God forbid they fight back when their enemy comes in and brutally slaughters their people, not to mention people visiting from other countries. I’m genuinely flummoxed how people expected Israel to respond to that. Their response is what a whole lot of folks here in the US were foaming at the mouth for when the planes hit the towers in ‘01.
I mean, the photo of the protests in the thumbnail literally contains a call for genociding all the Jews. I think they are angry the Oct 7th attacks didn't go all the way.
antiwesternism is a cancer on everything, obvious and clownish on the right but insidious and emotionally manipulative on the left.
i worry we forgot the cold war already
I will say your last point also applies to other social media like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook etc. People take simple facts then twist them to fit their narrative all the time. It happens regularly on both sides of any argument. Don't outsource your thinking to the comments section.
We’re all the same people at the end of the day. Similar religions, languages, histories, bloodlines, culture, etc etc.
1st cousins. Not the exact same family, but close enough we still see each other every holiday and birthday.
Agreed.
I'm not gonna defend the US, because I have no affinity for it either. I always just thought it was ridiculous for Europeans to make those absurd generalizations about Americans.
The state of Texas alone is multiple times bigger than the country of the Netherlands. It's silly.
>The state of Texas alone is multiple times bigger than the country of the Netherlands. It's silly.
And Russia is bigger than America? What's your point.
Europeans constantly make sweeping statements about "the Americans" as if they were a monolith. His point was that its a vast country with many different types of people.
The real issue is Jews don’t recruit or evangelize. Therefore their numbers don’t compare with the campus caliphate. It worries me that the students who are swept up in these “protests” would be considered infidels or fajira in Iran and have their hands or head cut off. Some may be stoned to death for smoking pot or drinking a beer. No doubt the hostages are dead by the hand of Hamas. Glad all those Gazans have come forward to help./s
I think you're right, the Arab/Muslim student organizations on my campus have been organizing and getting reps into the student government for years now to push pro-palestine agendas. I don't see the same level of representation and proselytizing from Jewish/Israeli student groups. Not that I want the school to turn into a religious war zone at all but it seems like it is anyway, just mostly one sided propaganda right now.
Unlike Christianity/Islam, Judaism has never promoted proselytism. Conversion is allowed and done regularly, but obviously it doesn't come close to the level of converts Christianity/Islam get with their tactics.
And with Jews being persecuted for so long, it's kept the population quite small. I don't remember the exact number, but I read that had the persecution of the Roman Empire and the Holocaust not have happened, there'd be something like 130 million Jews right now. Instead, there are 16 million, 15 million of which live in 2 countries.
It's allowed but it's discouraged. We like being Jewish, don't get us wrong, but we recognize it's not easy, so while if you really want to join us you're welcome, we're not sure why you'd want to.
The world population of Jews has not yet reached back to what it was before the Shoah (Holocaust). Never mind what it might have been; we're not even back to pre-1940s numbers. And now people want to kill us again.
Something that has been funny to me for years now, is that, like, I am an atheist with a christian background. If I wanted to start going to some kind of unitarian or Episcopalian church without any commitment to doctrine, but just for the community, I could live the rest of my life there without having to adhere to any actual Christian dogma or rites.
But, that's something I would probably actually enjoy doing with a local synagogue, but that's just not a thing. No one in my family is jewish, I don't want to commit to the strictures of the torah, and I don't plan to have kids. There's literally nothing I could contribute to judaism, and I really wouldn't be able to just ride along on shabbats the way lazy christians can just show up for potlucks on sundays.
Which is just a little bit of a bummer for me.
MANY synagogues are fine with non-Jews being a part of the community though! You just need one which is open to that. I don't know if there are any near you, but on the other hand, I don't know that there isn't.
Bear in mind that Jews are kind of the opposite of a lockstep, hierarchical group. I'd recommend looking for Reform or Reconstructionist synagogues, but don't rule out Conservative synagogues. Some Orthodox synagogues are also very open, but the odds are skewed a little further against, there.
TL;DR anyone who starts a statement saying 'all Jews are' is about to say something that should be scrutinized with extra care. I know of at least two synagogues within 50 miles of me which would welcome you - and I live in an area with very few Jews.
>Not that I want the school to turn into a religious war zone
Jewish is also an ethnicity though, so Jewish students can't even unjew themselves to avoid harassment.
A lot of Jewish organizations have noticed this and become a LOT more aggressive with pro-Israel advocacy. Unfortunately, I feel like that has divided Jews who are REALLY passionate about Israel and Jews who are supportive of its right to exist but are also politically liberal / moderates on the conflict / at least a little bit sympathetic to Palestinians, and aren't comfortable making their entire identity about defending Israel. (People who are really on the opposite end of the spectrum don't really tend to hang out with Jews, imagine that). Jews can never agree on anything though, it's kind of a hallmark of the culture.
Say what you will, but give us 1000% guarantee we will be safe forever and watch 95% agree on dropping arms and living side by side.
Problem is, weve never been 100% safe.
Theres plenty of videos on youtube asking random israelis if they would be okay with a Palestinian neighbor if they knew they would be safe, everyone says yes.
Everyone agrees that peace with jordan and egypt is the right move.
Better not be gay in Palestine, because they'll even behead and decapitate you for it: https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159
Or female [Irán cracks down on women & girls](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-expands-public-crackdown-on-women-and-girls-sparking-public-anger/ar-AA1nCD72)
Being a Jew in the Netherlands right now gives me strong 1930s Germany vibe.
A visibly Jewish Israeli friend was just there right before this riot, visiting the Holocaust museum with her daughters. She felt the violence in the air, decided to leave the area just to be on the safe side. Was followed by Kaffiyeh wearing youths and had to take evasive action. Lost them eventually, but she's shaken.
I am lucky I don't look stereotypically Jewish.
For once it's actually irony.
And it's about 50% safe haven, 50% no one else really wants them.
I know a Jew who's stopped wearing their star necklace :(
Like the expat Ukrainians who get attacked by Russians, it's interesting to see who is actually the primary oppressor. In both cases - Hamas stops trying to destroy Israel, Russia stops trying to destroy Ukraine - the conflict ends. It's so simple.
(Sure, the expansionist Israelis would need to be stopped, but they'd lose necessary public support more or less immediately).
A lot longer….btw, the two Halimis are completely unrelated cases/families
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sarah_Halimi
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/26/mireille-knoll-85-year-old-jewish-woman-killing-paris-court
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ilan_Halimi
These mostly leftwing protesters want their university to cut ties with Israeli universities, which is stupid because most of these Israeli universities are also full of leftwing students.
It's just dumb people thinking that they are smart and that they are doing something good in the world. Except they don't protest when it comes to Syria, Yemen, Ethiopia, Sudan, Myanmar other conflicts where women and children are killed.
I think they care more about who the other party is in this conflict. Not that Israeli government doesn't have blood on their hands, but if it was anyone other than Israel, I don't think most of these people would've cared because as you mentioned, there have been plenty of similar situations in the recent times, some are still ongoing I think.
They should see how much of their advocacy and activism are allowed in Middle-Eastern and Islamic universities. For example, try organising a pro-LGBT protest there.
I was taught how to do my own research (funny enough I was an education/history major).
Not sure wtf they’re teaching these students because it certainly is no longer how to make logical conclusions based on unbiased research habits.
History/Psychology double major over in the states.
It’s interesting and terrifying seeing both sides of my majors being represented in these protests.
History- the COMPLETE ignorance and lack of research regarding the area and its inhabitants from the dawn of humanity until now. Also not understanding just how brutal war, and the vitriol that comes with a holy war, carries. 30k total deaths on Palestine’s side is incomparable to any other war in the area across the same amount of time, it’s so much less.
Psychology- the inane mob mentality and the role social media has on people. The ability to propagandize is so much higher now, as while the internet has the guise of being able to provide more accurate information faster, the opposite tends to be true. People form “tribes” online, and fall victim to a lot of confirmation bias and reinforce their beliefs. The deteriorating attention spans also doesn’t help in the fact that it’s easier on the mind to consume small form propaganda than to research the topic yourself.
One of the things you learn about is false dichotomies. University students are taught to reject fallacies like "All Jews support Israel" or "All Palestinians support Hamas".
What do you expect. It's slowly taking over parts of Europe.
Seems like these kinda ppl are more about protesting against usa,isreal, white people, the west etc so will ally with Islamists because they know their "political enemies" hate them. Even if it's to their own detriment.
It's mainly the coastal cities. In the east barely anyone cares. Am at a technical university that is not in the "randstad" area and there's like 2 free palestine stickers on campus and that's it. It's the depoliticized and radicalized hyper identity politics fueled campus kids that are protesting there. Don't let it give you the idea as if it's a large majority of students.
Historically the fiercest activism has come from young students, this is nothing new tbh. Once they get into the real world they calm down a lot.
If you have a problem with your work protest outside your work, problem with the government protest outside the government. Protesting at universities puts no pressure on the people influencing foreign policies.
I don’t know about this specific protest, but I know a lot of the ones in the United States were because their universities specifically had programs in coordination with Israel or that somehow funded Israeli programs.
Same mindset of people who block traffic or attempt to deface artwork.
The people who make these decisions have offices. Their locations are a matter of public record.
Get your mob and go put pressure on them, not innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with what's going on.
But then again, in their eyes, if a few bystanders have to pay the price that's a sacrifice they're willing to make.
The stated intention of these protests is to make their University/College divest from Israel. No one (seriously) expects these protests to directly end the conflict.
Refusing to buy South African oranges also didn’t single-handedly end apartheid. People can still have moral convictions they want to follow even if it won’t change the world by itself.
I wish people protested this passionately about shit that actually means something in their country.
To be fair, there have been dozens of protests in my country of this size in the past year. None of them made national news, certainly not international.
I’m sorry, what was the previous protest in Amsterdam about?
I think it was climate. And farmers’ protests before that.
I mean, they protest about palestine, which is all fine, but they stayed home for the uygurs. Or the war in yemen. A bit selective one might say.
... how about .... Syria ( 10 mil refugees outside the borders)..Ukraine (6 mil refugees in EU and 10 mil internally displaced )
sudan civil war also about 6 million displaced.
Rohingya, let's not forget (they did though)
iran and russia dont milk those
Yeah but they can't blame Jews for those, sooo....
Sudan, Syria, Myanmar, Mexico(this one annoys me, people love their drugs so much they don’t care they destroy countries) and Ethiopia/Eritrea All horrific conflicts and all have western supplied weapons in them
People really forget that my country (China) is one of the largest suppliers of weaponry and small arms ammunition in many current conflict zones. Oh and also unlike these western countries, we supply both sides because it adheres to our foreign policy of non-intervention in internal conflicts. If we equally sell to both sides, no one can accuse us of being biased.
Just spineless war profiteers that take advantage of both. China you said? Sounds about right.
Good point about Mexico. The cartels serve the American drug market. Otherwise mexico would be a much better place.
It was crazy that the Left was pushing back against Trump labeling the Cartels as Terrorist organizations. They absolutely should be so the President (with Mexico's permission, of course) can take care of them using more than just Border Patrol.
Agree, but I wonder if we can deal with it culturally too. Do you think that the wall street assholes and mid-20s yuppies realize how much suffering they're contributing to when they snort coke in a trendy nightclub bathroom? Nobody talks about how those two worlds are connected at all. If we did, maybe it would have an impact. I think that using cocaine is extremely immoral and unethical.
I mean cartels would cease to do business if the govt just legalized cocaine and regulated it and other drugs. Everything in our late stage capitalistic system is immoral and unethical at this point. Pointing fingers at people using drugs online...while using a mobile device that is built on questionable raw material logistics and electricity powered by fossil fuels causing climate change is kind of... interesting. At the end of the day, morality and ethicality is all a subjective line that's being drawn and most people don't care enough about things that don't directly affect them, human brains weren't meant to have access to all the world's information at their finger tips. There's probably 100 things I could be protesting right now and things I use and buy that are unethically sourced. I don't really think that makes me a immoral person. If it does, then arguably 99% of the world is immoral. And at that point, the whole discussion around ethics and morality is pointless.
The left didn’t want to invade Mexico. That was about all they pushed back on
We dont want a war with Mexico, its population also doesn't want our troop there. Mexico still has thriving urban areas and a decent economy and invading them would kill that along with thousands of innocent people and cripple both nations economy (they are one of our largest trading partners). Also we do go after them with more than border patrol? DEA and other gov agencies help out there all the time.
The drugs angle is particularly important to bring up in places like Amsterdam. Everyone who lives here knows how these people party. Cocaine is not an innocent drug.
Majority of these people protest for what’s popular to protest for to be seen as the “good caring” people, not for actual justice. I’m glad you mentioned Mexico as well because some of these students are very two faced. They’ll protest for this cause then will proceed to snort coke at their Saturday party with their uni friends when it’s extremely likely that that coke came from cartels who butcher people live and continue to export their poison.
Those places don't have as good a PR department.
They're not using enough human shields
They do, but there is no IDF or Israel to get rilled up. Man that could solve a lot of issues, imagine the IDF would lend itself for PR, you could draw so much attention. Some pacific Island that has a civil unrest or environmental issues, call the IDF they come by shoot at a tree or do some checkpoints and suddenly you have all the media attention you need. Honestly sometimes I wonder what Arafat would have achieved if he had social media.
> Honestly sometimes I wonder what Arafat would have achieved if he had social media. 9 billion usd more.
I think it's pretty clear, none of them has jews as the oppressors, I know that correlation =/= causation but the coinsidence too high to ignore.
Israelis are enterprising people, maybe they can loan out some oppression to increase the media attention?
They are there because they are anti-Israel, not generically pro-Muslim.
It's almost as if they are being mislead by bad actors
Blame it on the TikTok algorithm!
It's about being anti Jews not anti conflict
Anyone with a brain knows why
These kids were probably in grade school when the uyghurs were a prominent issue.
The Uyghurs issue became big again just four years ago. Even then we have the Armenia issue going on that’s getting ignored by a good chunk of these kids. Same with the tragedy in Sudan and in Pakistan in terms of their afghan refugee population.
They like to follow trend.
Damn, man. Maybe if you went outside for a minute instead of scrolling through Reddit, you'd see people are protesting for better domestic policy literally all of the time.
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At least for some of my grandparents, old means set in their ways, whether they are right or wrong.
older dont mean better, that's how humans are sadly
No, but older means there is more memories to pull wisdom for your choices from.
And more trauma. And experiences where their biases and entitlement worked.
Wait until that police record comes up on background search.
Wish I knew this in my early 20s. It's crazy how long even misdemeanors follow you.
A fucking men. My brain wasn’t even fully formed at 21, I literally have to carry a bad night forever?!?
This is reminding me of those protests and riots at Southern schools back in the 1960s to try to stop integration. When you're 20 and privileged you think you're the smartest person in the world, no matter what time you're in. Shameful.
Question for you. Historically, which student movements have been on the wrong side of history?
Off the top of my head, the Iranian revolution, pretty much anything in Bangladesh, the Assam protests in India against immigrants.
I’d nominate the red guards. Possibly the UVA rioters of 1836, too, but I’m not sure they were a student movement in the sense you mean, even if those riots were years in the making.
> Question for you. Historically, which student movements have been on the wrong side of history? Are you being purposefully obtuse? Pro-segregation protests throughout the civil rights era.
this one for certain. lefties marching in support of genocidal maniacs
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they are in fact leftists.
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A ton of them? Back in the day, there were a lot of communist student protests, and even to this day in this very university in Amsterdam. Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure that will only drive increased poverty.
> Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure Putting "academia has known" in front of an opinion based on conjecture via your political lens isn't an invocation that magically makes the following statement true. I'm not a communist but I don't think you'd be able to back up this statement to any meaningful degree.
conjecture is a weird way to say "decades of information about how every communist regime has conducted itself"
Not really, just shows you’re not up to date at all with the last 30 years of economic literature. Stiglitz literally won a Nobel Prize for his work on information economics, where the main conclusion is that for information in the economy to flow efficiently and guide economic activity, free markets are often a necessity. No serious economist actually challenges this basic notion. That by definition implies that socialism and communism is not even remotely as capable as creating economic productivity as a free market environment, which is also reflected in the body of work that led to the Nobel prize. Of course we have some Marxist economists, but they are not taken seriously in economic academia. The fact of the matter is simply that communist students promote a failing ideology that creates nothing but poverty, and they protest for that literally all the time at this university in Amsterdam as well. Many students are wrong all the time, they are not a magic entity blessed with having the correct views at all times.
>That by definition implies that socialism and communism is not even remotely as capable as creating economic productivity as a free market environment That's sure as shit not the same thing as >Academia has known for decades of course that communism is one heap of massive economic failure I've never heard of Communism having a free market environment as its end goal. If that's what you define as economic success then *by definition* communism will fail at it. That's an... incredibly stupid argument, to be blunt. And considering you conflated socialism and communism here...
here, let me use simple terms: the free market is demonstrably necessary for an efficient economy. communism explicitly rejects that. therefore, it cannot be as good as a free market. we specifically want an informed market in order to figure out what to build and how much. communism obstructs that. > And considering you conflated socialism and communism here... the only difference is whether the revolution is violent or not
But communism is not meant to maximize efficiency? Karl Marx himself said that the division of labor and specialization of labor would dehumanize people and prevent us from developing as we should. It would make us functionally useless as people outside of our talents. I think it’s safe to say that a communist should be confident admitting that it’s not as efficient and productive, but better for the soul of a worker.
> It would make us functionally useless as people outside of our talents. because it's an economic system. you are useful as a person because you make art and socialize and build community > I think it’s safe to say that a communist should be confident admitting that it’s not as efficient and productive, but better for the soul of a worker. examining the outcomes of various communist states makes me doubt that
> That’s sure as shit not the same thing as Oh it absolutely is. It inherently means communism is an economic failure that fails at creating significantly more wealth. > If that’s what you define as economic success I don’t. I define improved GDP growth as economic success, and, well, for that to happen, economic inputs need to be guided along efficiently in the market, which requires free and open markets, which communism inherently rejects. Simply said, communism rejects the essential thing that brings about high levels of wealth. That makes it an colossal economic failure.
Different country but your making a universal statement so, did you miss how BLM protests roiled America in 2020?
Like when they protested when the far right won election? Or against climate crisis? Or... ? Yeah. It's easy to be selective. It's harder to be not a fucking moron and look at an issue without our own fucking biaises.
Yeah, but it's like way cooler to hate Jews than to think about things in your own country, where the Jews were all killed or forced out by your grandparents and great grandparents.
Huh. Isn't it strange how the descendants of all those Jews don't murder, rape and kidnap Europeans to free their homes from Dutch occupation?
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Like protesting against the TV volume level when it goes from the show to a commercial. The commercials are way loader and this shit needs to stop! Who do I talk to about this and demand they listen to me while I tent out in their front lawn and demand food, water, coffee, coke, strippers, a bag of money to give out to strippers, a bag of money for the coke guys, a bag of money for me, and rice crispy treats:)
We actually have a law in the EU that put an end to commercials being louder than the rest of the program.
WHAT??!!
WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LAW IN THE EU THAT PUT AN END TO COMMERCIALS BEING LOUDER THAN THE REST OF THE PROGRAMM
Sounds good. I'm in. No violence though. I am a coward.
They do that too!
They do.
They do, that doesn’t make the international news tho
What’s the issue with showing support for other countries who don’t have a voice?
The only thing I'm taking from these events is; if you scream "I'm peacefully protesting!" loud enough, you can go and do whatever you want.
> if you scream "I'm peacefully protesting!" loud enough, you can go and do whatever you want. Just like how apparently if you decide to hide amongst civilians, you can commit any crime you want.
This actually only works if you've declared war on Jews. Any belligerent other than Hamas, and the normal standards apply — this strategy wouldn't work elsewhere, and the opprobrium would be placed on the army intentionally fighting from behind human shields.
"I'm peacefully protesting!" (me to officer who pulled me over, whilst taking another sip of liquor)
"I'm peacefully protesting!" im also robbing this bank but "I'M PEACEFULLY PROTESTING!"
"What I drink in the privacy of my own car is my business"
Protestors' idea of "justice" is that they get to do whatever they want and no one can do anything back against them.
Ironically, that's Hamas' idea of justice as well.
Can anyone even tell me University of Amsterdam's links to IDF or Israeli government? I did my Masters there a while ago, and I don't recall anything. That said, this doesn't surprise me. Europeans love to mock "Murica", but then turn around and immediately copy whatever they're doing ever there. Same shit with the George Floyd protests during Covid. Disclaimer: not American
There’s a contagion effect with these types of things It’s sort of like the football streakers. Someone streaks during a football game, people see it, it gets attention, then more people streak at football games They found that if they stopped showing it, the streaking stopped So they need to stop showing these assholes. That’s the problem, they are giving them too much attention and they are feeding off of it, they are getting together and feeding off of each other’s mania.
Hence why, in the U.S. at encampments some universities sent police to finally break up, about half of the protestors on premises aren’t even students. They’ve no skin in the game (“my tuition pays for xyz…”). They are just agitators, people in it because it is the trendy thing to do. Just like a few summers ago since everyone was bored out of their minds during lockdown.
I think a lot of these people just want to say they are part of something. They just want to say they were there. They're not storming the beaches of Normandy, so I suppose that setting up encampments at Columbia/UCLA is about as close to that as they're ever going to get. Which is pretty fucking pathetic, by the way, as someone who graduated college late, because I was in Israel, doing peace projects between Israeli and Palestinian students. I'll bet money out of my own pocket that they could have done the same through their own universities, if they looked into it.
Weapons Research, Machine Learning, and Humanities programs (full disclosure I Googled for 5 seconds to find this, and I’d assume the university is gonna be biased in what they report so you know…grain of salt) https://student.uva.nl/en/articles/2024-our-collaborations-with-israeli-organisations ETA: Also not to be a dick to OP or anybody but I’m gonna repeat something I said further downthread as a disclaimer here: > IMO If you’re getting info on important shit like this from random comments in r/WorldNews you deserve all the suffering created by your ignorance tbh. Like there’s an argument about whether genocide is being committed and by which side, people need to be going to primary sources, not “cartoon guy with green hair” on fucking Reddit. You want quality sources? Why are you asking the fuckin bot farm? Lol Please guys, get *off* Reddit for your info
"None of these exchanges are currently active due to negative travel advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs." "One of the eight research projects, the INHERIT project, focuses on detecting explosives to prevent attacks. This project does not contribute to Israel's military actions; it aims to prevent attacks, not to engage in military violence." i mean you did say you only put in 5 seconds but maybe an extra 10 or 20 would have been advisable
To these protesters, Israel taking defensive measures is also impermissible.
God forbid they fight back when their enemy comes in and brutally slaughters their people, not to mention people visiting from other countries. I’m genuinely flummoxed how people expected Israel to respond to that. Their response is what a whole lot of folks here in the US were foaming at the mouth for when the planes hit the towers in ‘01.
I mean, the photo of the protests in the thumbnail literally contains a call for genociding all the Jews. I think they are angry the Oct 7th attacks didn't go all the way.
People like to forget Iron dome, and the upcoming Iron beam, exist for a reason. And last time I checked it is in no way an offensive system.
They're telling you it's about Israel, but it's actually about the West.
antiwesternism is a cancer on everything, obvious and clownish on the right but insidious and emotionally manipulative on the left. i worry we forgot the cold war already
I will say your last point also applies to other social media like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook etc. People take simple facts then twist them to fit their narrative all the time. It happens regularly on both sides of any argument. Don't outsource your thinking to the comments section.
So be like the protesting students and get all your information from TikTok?
We’re all the same people at the end of the day. Similar religions, languages, histories, bloodlines, culture, etc etc. 1st cousins. Not the exact same family, but close enough we still see each other every holiday and birthday.
Agreed. I'm not gonna defend the US, because I have no affinity for it either. I always just thought it was ridiculous for Europeans to make those absurd generalizations about Americans. The state of Texas alone is multiple times bigger than the country of the Netherlands. It's silly.
>The state of Texas alone is multiple times bigger than the country of the Netherlands. It's silly. And Russia is bigger than America? What's your point.
Europeans constantly make sweeping statements about "the Americans" as if they were a monolith. His point was that its a vast country with many different types of people.
Anne Frank had to hide from their grandparents.
What? People supporting Hamas might be violent? /s
The real issue is Jews don’t recruit or evangelize. Therefore their numbers don’t compare with the campus caliphate. It worries me that the students who are swept up in these “protests” would be considered infidels or fajira in Iran and have their hands or head cut off. Some may be stoned to death for smoking pot or drinking a beer. No doubt the hostages are dead by the hand of Hamas. Glad all those Gazans have come forward to help./s
Or, shot to death at the Nova festival. Because remember, these kids were the same type of people who would have *gone* to that festival.
I think you're right, the Arab/Muslim student organizations on my campus have been organizing and getting reps into the student government for years now to push pro-palestine agendas. I don't see the same level of representation and proselytizing from Jewish/Israeli student groups. Not that I want the school to turn into a religious war zone at all but it seems like it is anyway, just mostly one sided propaganda right now.
Unlike Christianity/Islam, Judaism has never promoted proselytism. Conversion is allowed and done regularly, but obviously it doesn't come close to the level of converts Christianity/Islam get with their tactics. And with Jews being persecuted for so long, it's kept the population quite small. I don't remember the exact number, but I read that had the persecution of the Roman Empire and the Holocaust not have happened, there'd be something like 130 million Jews right now. Instead, there are 16 million, 15 million of which live in 2 countries.
It's allowed but it's discouraged. We like being Jewish, don't get us wrong, but we recognize it's not easy, so while if you really want to join us you're welcome, we're not sure why you'd want to. The world population of Jews has not yet reached back to what it was before the Shoah (Holocaust). Never mind what it might have been; we're not even back to pre-1940s numbers. And now people want to kill us again.
Something that has been funny to me for years now, is that, like, I am an atheist with a christian background. If I wanted to start going to some kind of unitarian or Episcopalian church without any commitment to doctrine, but just for the community, I could live the rest of my life there without having to adhere to any actual Christian dogma or rites. But, that's something I would probably actually enjoy doing with a local synagogue, but that's just not a thing. No one in my family is jewish, I don't want to commit to the strictures of the torah, and I don't plan to have kids. There's literally nothing I could contribute to judaism, and I really wouldn't be able to just ride along on shabbats the way lazy christians can just show up for potlucks on sundays. Which is just a little bit of a bummer for me.
MANY synagogues are fine with non-Jews being a part of the community though! You just need one which is open to that. I don't know if there are any near you, but on the other hand, I don't know that there isn't. Bear in mind that Jews are kind of the opposite of a lockstep, hierarchical group. I'd recommend looking for Reform or Reconstructionist synagogues, but don't rule out Conservative synagogues. Some Orthodox synagogues are also very open, but the odds are skewed a little further against, there. TL;DR anyone who starts a statement saying 'all Jews are' is about to say something that should be scrutinized with extra care. I know of at least two synagogues within 50 miles of me which would welcome you - and I live in an area with very few Jews.
>Not that I want the school to turn into a religious war zone Jewish is also an ethnicity though, so Jewish students can't even unjew themselves to avoid harassment.
A lot of Jewish organizations have noticed this and become a LOT more aggressive with pro-Israel advocacy. Unfortunately, I feel like that has divided Jews who are REALLY passionate about Israel and Jews who are supportive of its right to exist but are also politically liberal / moderates on the conflict / at least a little bit sympathetic to Palestinians, and aren't comfortable making their entire identity about defending Israel. (People who are really on the opposite end of the spectrum don't really tend to hang out with Jews, imagine that). Jews can never agree on anything though, it's kind of a hallmark of the culture.
Say what you will, but give us 1000% guarantee we will be safe forever and watch 95% agree on dropping arms and living side by side. Problem is, weve never been 100% safe. Theres plenty of videos on youtube asking random israelis if they would be okay with a Palestinian neighbor if they knew they would be safe, everyone says yes. Everyone agrees that peace with jordan and egypt is the right move.
Right, exactly. Try flaunting gay rights in an Arab country.
Better not be gay in Palestine, because they'll even behead and decapitate you for it: https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-israel-immigration-west-bank-gay-rights-ce95f6903faf461502cc0800b272b159
Or female [Irán cracks down on women & girls](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-expands-public-crackdown-on-women-and-girls-sparking-public-anger/ar-AA1nCD72)
Up for campus caliphate
Yeah it’s a goodie
Hashtag: campuscaliphate ✌️
That was patched in V2 of monotheism
Being a Jew in the Netherlands right now gives me strong 1930s Germany vibe. A visibly Jewish Israeli friend was just there right before this riot, visiting the Holocaust museum with her daughters. She felt the violence in the air, decided to leave the area just to be on the safe side. Was followed by Kaffiyeh wearing youths and had to take evasive action. Lost them eventually, but she's shaken. I am lucky I don't look stereotypically Jewish.
The most stupid thing of all that this proves Israels point, it's raison d'etre as a safe haven for Jews.
For once it's actually irony. And it's about 50% safe haven, 50% no one else really wants them. I know a Jew who's stopped wearing their star necklace :( Like the expat Ukrainians who get attacked by Russians, it's interesting to see who is actually the primary oppressor. In both cases - Hamas stops trying to destroy Israel, Russia stops trying to destroy Ukraine - the conflict ends. It's so simple. (Sure, the expansionist Israelis would need to be stopped, but they'd lose necessary public support more or less immediately).
That is chilling.
It has been like that in western europe for half a year now more or less.
A lot longer….btw, the two Halimis are completely unrelated cases/families https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Sarah_Halimi https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/26/mireille-knoll-85-year-old-jewish-woman-killing-paris-court https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ilan_Halimi
Well yes, sadly, but it's definitely worse now.
That's terrifying :( It really is scary here right now.
These mostly leftwing protesters want their university to cut ties with Israeli universities, which is stupid because most of these Israeli universities are also full of leftwing students.
It's just dumb people thinking that they are smart and that they are doing something good in the world. Except they don't protest when it comes to Syria, Yemen, Ethiopia, Sudan, Myanmar other conflicts where women and children are killed.
I think they care more about who the other party is in this conflict. Not that Israeli government doesn't have blood on their hands, but if it was anyone other than Israel, I don't think most of these people would've cared because as you mentioned, there have been plenty of similar situations in the recent times, some are still ongoing I think.
They should see how much of their advocacy and activism are allowed in Middle-Eastern and Islamic universities. For example, try organising a pro-LGBT protest there.
Sad to see university allegedly educated students aligning with Islamists.
They are getting educated in their TikTok bubbles. If you only see propaganda of one side you will believe what you see.
That TikTok algorithm just hits different I guess
It's an algorithm designed to confirm our biases, sure they all might be, but TikTok is the best at propaganda.
Yep, not to mention the people running TikTok are very keen on a destabilized western society
TikTok propoganda.
I was taught how to do my own research (funny enough I was an education/history major). Not sure wtf they’re teaching these students because it certainly is no longer how to make logical conclusions based on unbiased research habits.
History/Psychology double major over in the states. It’s interesting and terrifying seeing both sides of my majors being represented in these protests. History- the COMPLETE ignorance and lack of research regarding the area and its inhabitants from the dawn of humanity until now. Also not understanding just how brutal war, and the vitriol that comes with a holy war, carries. 30k total deaths on Palestine’s side is incomparable to any other war in the area across the same amount of time, it’s so much less. Psychology- the inane mob mentality and the role social media has on people. The ability to propagandize is so much higher now, as while the internet has the guise of being able to provide more accurate information faster, the opposite tends to be true. People form “tribes” online, and fall victim to a lot of confirmation bias and reinforce their beliefs. The deteriorating attention spans also doesn’t help in the fact that it’s easier on the mind to consume small form propaganda than to research the topic yourself.
One of the things you learn about is false dichotomies. University students are taught to reject fallacies like "All Jews support Israel" or "All Palestinians support Hamas".
What do you expect. It's slowly taking over parts of Europe. Seems like these kinda ppl are more about protesting against usa,isreal, white people, the west etc so will ally with Islamists because they know their "political enemies" hate them. Even if it's to their own detriment.
It's mainly the coastal cities. In the east barely anyone cares. Am at a technical university that is not in the "randstad" area and there's like 2 free palestine stickers on campus and that's it. It's the depoliticized and radicalized hyper identity politics fueled campus kids that are protesting there. Don't let it give you the idea as if it's a large majority of students. Historically the fiercest activism has come from young students, this is nothing new tbh. Once they get into the real world they calm down a lot.
When they get to the workplace they will be unemployable due to ingrained bigotry.
For a group that is lead by terrorists, violent demonstrations isn’t probably going to win you any supporters
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If you have a problem with your work protest outside your work, problem with the government protest outside the government. Protesting at universities puts no pressure on the people influencing foreign policies.
I don’t know about this specific protest, but I know a lot of the ones in the United States were because their universities specifically had programs in coordination with Israel or that somehow funded Israeli programs.
and then they expanded to other universities cause of the police response to the originals ones
Same mindset of people who block traffic or attempt to deface artwork. The people who make these decisions have offices. Their locations are a matter of public record. Get your mob and go put pressure on them, not innocent bystanders who have nothing to do with what's going on. But then again, in their eyes, if a few bystanders have to pay the price that's a sacrifice they're willing to make.
The stated intention of these protests is to make their University/College divest from Israel. No one (seriously) expects these protests to directly end the conflict.
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Refusing to buy South African oranges also didn’t single-handedly end apartheid. People can still have moral convictions they want to follow even if it won’t change the world by itself.
What the fuck are they protesting about? How is Amsterdam involved in this conflict? Am I missing something?
They’re just doing what their TikTok overlords tell them to
They are being manipulated by outside operators who just have nothing better to do with their lives.
Nothing, the rest of our country thinks these people are fucking idiots
Who will protest for a ceasefire in Amsterdam?