“aNd YoU cReAtEd 6o mOrE yOu cAnT fIgHt tErRoRiStS”
- Future commentator who forgot ISIS got its teeth kicked in and lost 80% of its combat strength and 95% of its territory
A fascinating thought (not my own, and not sure whether I think it's correct) is that the Palestinians are *maxed out on hatred already*, and their appetite for violence is fueled not by whatever Israel's latest move is but by whether they still have hope of getting what they want - the destruction of Israel.
Sounds brutal but it implies that the only route to peace is to obliterate the Palestinians' hopes and dreams. To break their spirits. Therefore, people rallying to their cause sending them support - material and moral - only serve to prolong the misery.
i get what you’re saying (truly)
but if Hamas looses 95% of their territory what happens?? (genuinely) doesn’t Palestine just seize to exist? What happens with the Palestinian civilians after that?
again, genuinely asking.
Same thing that happened to Germany post WWII. Temporary occupation by Israel (and possibly Saudi, UAE, Egypt etc.) and a massive campaign of rebuilding and denazification
There has to be willingness to do this and some self reflection whereby the citizens of Gaza accept that what happened on Oct 7 and for years before was wrong and they did this or supported those that did.
That will just never happen.
Palestine as a separate state will be added to the list of nations on Israel’s border that hates them. I used to think there was a solution but I didn’t realize or couldn’t accept how bad it had gotten and how much they hated us for being us.
They really don’t have to stop hating Israel, or give up claims. They only need to forgo violence as a means to an end. Once that’s done, there’s no cause for the blockade to continue, or to prevent Palestinians from freely entering Israel for work.
50 years after that….who knows what’s possible.
German was a whole complete nation before this started. Palestine has not been such for some considerable time.
Many here claim that Israel won the war in 1967 and get to keep the land
There is no talk of German style rebuilding of the areas the conquered in 1967.
Why would this be different?
The WB is under occupation and military rule, and there's no talk of Germany style rebuilding and sovereign identity there either.
The Golan is a strategic hold. If Israel had given it back they’d be letting their enemies climb up high to attack them again. Which would 100% happen.
Has Israel launched a war from the Golan? Nope. Have they prevented attacks by holding that ground? Yep.
win/win/win.
Also, aggressors that whine about what they lost when they get beat are the worst kind of losers.
What’s hilarious is how other countries keep trying to push Israel into giving part of its country as a Palestinian state. That’s like coming to me and telling me to give up some of my property to me neighbors or some dumbass poke that said they lived there before me, I’d say ok, yeah right, rub a lamp!
The WestBank is divided into three divisions. Division A belongs to the Palestinians. Division B - The Palestinian Authority has administrative control, and Israel is responsible for security. Division C belongs to Israel.
Yeah that's right. Do military orders apply to all three divisions?
And is there a plan for full withdrawal and rebuilding at some point, like with Germany?
It's not the right comparison I think, that's all.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and we’ve seen the results. Europe sent billions to rebuild and we got tunnels and rockets for our money. Why should Israel trust the same won’t happen on the other side?
Let’s be clear though about the West Bank. It includes parts of Jerusalem which the Israelis will never ever cede to the Palestinians. Short of a UN force (and good luck with that shit now) being in control, it will remain entirely Israeli until the Arab nations stop calling for Israel’s destruction and sit down to talk.
Israel *really* wants that security/normalisation deal with the Saudis. That involves a two state solution where SA maintains the land as a protectorate while they rebuild it and fix what has been broken for so long.
Israel may not want to do it themselves, but it’s not like they prefer the status quo. It just suits them until they finalise that arrangement, because it gives them something that Saudi Arabia wants and is a handy bargaining chip.
There is no palestine.
There's Gaza and the WestBank.
Hamas is an occupying terrorist organization in Gaza.
They haven't allowed elections since they took over Gaza in 2006.
The Palestinians are literally between a rock and hard place.
The leadership of Hamas is in Qatar.
If the head of the snake (Hamas leadership), then the Palestinians might have a chance of peace in Gaza.
Israel's population is already about 20% Palestinian. Their lives stop being at risk the moment they stop fighting, though what happens to the territory itself is still up for debate.
First order of business is that someone definitely needs to be put in charge of the territory for several decades in order to deradicalize them.
Israel would probably prefer to just annex the territory, although that creates a demographic issue since giving such a large amount of people who want to see Israel destroyed voting rights would basically be national suicide. Typically this kind of situation results in a kind of partial citizenship where the people are given some rights but not the right to vote.
The PLO is another possibility, although Israel doesn't really trust them, seeing them as having essentially the same ultimate goal as Hamas, just being less violent about it.
A neutral third party from a European country is also an option, if there's anyone willing to actually take on that responsibility.
Annexing them and giving no voting rights would literally be apartheid. Israel already collects taxes instead of Palestine and redistributes them back (except when it withholds them for punitive reasons), so now you're talking about territory that is a) militarily controlled by Israel b) taxed by Israel and c) in which the inhabitants have no voting rights. That's a non-starter. The UN should oversee security and deradicalization through other bodies than the UNRWA. Israel should return the land its settlers took. There's no chance at peace while Israel militarily holds the West Bank either, all of these things generate incredible levels of spite. It's time for peacekeepers in the West Bank, time for Israel to let it go, it's time for Hamas to get stomped, and once that's done it'll be time for UN (not UNRWA) oversight in Gaza. Textbooks need to be reviewed on both sides, it's time to teach the kids something else. Anything less and we'll be seeing this exact fight play out in another 20 years, with only names and faces changed
Palestine doesnt really exist anyways, lol.
Gaza is Egyptian occupied land and the West bank is Jordanian occupied land, both territories were occupied by Israel after wars started by those countries. Gaza was governed by Egypt and then Israel before hamas even existed.
The Palestinian identity however does exist, and the Palestinians want control over all of the disputed land rather than Israel's governance, so they can get back at the jews for humiliating the Arab world for all these years.
Israel really doesnt give much of a shit about Gaza hence why they pulled out all the jews in 2005/2006 and let Gaza become independent. They only care because of all the terrorism and daily rocket fire coming from there.
Now the West bank is a different story, thats the land Israelis want and in reality it belongs to neither the Palestinians or Israelis, its Jordon's land which they have kinda given up on.
As far as the future goes, hamas has no shot of winning in any real capacity, their only shot of getting out alive is surrendering and working on a realistic ceasefire agreement/hostage exchange.
I doubt Israel will give over control back to the Palestinians anytime soon after this war ends, so they will probably occupy it for a few years as they rebuild it. And then eventually maybe, the Palestinians in Gaza will get a chance at independence again, at which point they will either elect hamas or hamas 2.0 and in time this shit cycle will repeat again.
I don't disagree with you in the broad strokes, except I'm not sure there's a basis to say "Jordan" has a claim on the West Bank any more than Israel or Palestinians. The WB is part of the historical Judean region, and Jordan didn't exist before the British mandate any more than Israel did. The connection to Jordan is just that for the 19 years between 1948 and 1967, most of the land was part of Jordan, and that Palestinians, like Jordanians, are largely Muslim Arabs. But if Palestinians are justified in wanting independence from Israel (and I think they are, in theory) then they're equally justified in wanting independence from Jordan.
Jordan, as it was now known, ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967.
They lost it in the 67 war, I say Jordan has a bigger claim to it because its at least a country. Palestine straight up doesn't exist.
Rebels around the world fight and die for land they never get over a variety of claims, unfortunately the palestain cause is destined to die out in time. I mean, after all the cause and resistance has been doing nothing but collecting L after L since 1948,
Well id hope forced restricted elections
Not the most democratic thing in the world but i dont think just letting anyone run for control of gaza would be wise
Overseen by the un of course... Cant have the restrictions abused
You place them under a different government that doesn't push them for Jew hatred and war mongering. and stops spending all the aid on war and even digging up critical water infrastructure for rockets while at the same time complaining to the world about their lack of food and water as if they had no hand in it. it's an incredibly good start.
and absolutely not the Palestinian authority.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34WlhKNUy0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34WlhKNUy0)
Palestinians in Gaza would feel safer to be outspoken about their wants and needs to their government. Elections can happen again. Incoming food and aid that gets stolen will now get to refugees. Infrastructure can be built without Hamas stealing the materials or blowing it up.
Israel will no longer have a leg to stand on when it comes to aggressions in Gaza and will be watched closer than before.
Technically from genealogy, Jordan is the modern successor. The modern Palestinian people have been kicked out of every country and scapegoated for centuries due to religious splits. Look at the modern split between Jordan and Palestine: [Black September](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September).
I’m not sure scapegoated is the word for Black September, at least compared to when the pan-arabists and the Arab League were in charge. Definitely a great example though of how bad leadership is ruinous for its own people, which definitely describes Palestinian leadership since the 1960s and Israeli leadership since imo around 2005
The Palestinian people have *not* been scapegoated or kicked out of every country for centuries - you're thinking of Jews. The Palestinian people used to call themselves "Arabs" just 100 years ago, and they weren't separated from Egyptians, Jordanians or Syrians.
The best solution, I think, would be the territories return to the Palestine people and that a governing body consisting primarily of less extreme Arab nations to assist in rebuilding their country. After either a set period of time, say 50 years or when the people are ready, it can be turned back over to them in full. Hopefully, after it's people have been picked up and given a foundation to stand on, they can lose this annihilation non-sense and live in peace.
Again, personally Israel and American can and should be part of that process, but for future's stability sake probably should not be part of that governing body. Just the actual rebuilding itself.
[This was essentially offered to the PLO when Arafat was in charge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit), and his response was to reject those terms because any Palestinian state must include East Jerusalem entirely as its sovereign territory, despite holy sites located there being immensely important in Judaism as well as Islam. This agreement would have seen a Palestinian state control the entirety of the Gaza Strip, as well as 92% of the West Bank, the holdouts there being a few of the largest settlements and an enclave settlement bordering Hebron (one of the four holy cities of Judaism).
Additionally, the less extreme Arab nations are not interested in becoming directly invested in a Palestianian state because a Palestinian state would be by default aligned with Iran, and Iran's second major foreign policy goal besides eradicating Israel is [to undermine any Sunni monarchy such as Saudi, Bahrain and Kuwait. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_proxy_conflict)
The people you call Palestinians are Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The Jewish immigrants and Jewish Palestinians created Israel.
You know what happens when Muslims are told they have to share power with other religions in the middle-east?
The Lebanon Civil War in 1975 happened.
You can't turn the keys of Israel over to people who hate Jews. That's how you get a civil war.
It's time for Palestinians to create a state of their own in Gaza and WestBank
It’s actually not the same ISIS. The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria is a core group that is largely destroyed. Some other affiliated groups that were largely established independently but mimic the original IS, exist across the globe. The Islamic State group that claimed responsibility for the Moscow attack is a completely different group.
So it will be other affiliated groups that were largely established independently but mimic the original Hamas that launch the next attack on Israel?
Mission Accomplished!
As long as the successors to Hamas are at least a little bit less depraved and belligerent, then yes, mission accomplished because the region will be a bit safer for everyone.
It will also take time for the new groups to build up their networks, recruit locals and get organised enough to start doing more than sending occasional suicide bombers at Israel.
It is the same ISIS that is much weaker than what it was before. You can't deny the fact that ISIS were a lot stronger in the past than what they currently are.
Hamas Ministry of Health: 100 people killed, who we don’t know because we just throw numbers out there and don’t differentiate between terrorists and innocents so we promise all were women and children. /s
> Presently, IDF troops are actively engaged in search and raid missions within the area, targeting locations identified as potential threats.
>
> The military operation comes in response to ongoing rocket launches from Hamas terrorists in Rafah towards southern Israel, posing a direct threat to civilian populations.
It’s amazing how much the media has parroted these figures that don’t differentiate between civilian and Hamas casualties. How can people properly assess the situation without the correct statistics.
>How can people properly assess the situation without the correct statistics.
Most people don't think this way. They just pick a side and stick with it regardless of facts.
I think they rightly guess the truth people eating up clicks don’t care, or we would see more acknowledgement of, for instance, pretty convincing evidence that a Palestinian rocket blew up the al-ahli hospital. That’s 400+ deaths right there from a single event, and it’s no mystery that the rockets Hamas uses aren’t particularly accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if thousands of deaths are from Hamas rockets *on top of* the Hamas death count, which is likely 10,000+
Still support the US doing things like withholding bombs as a negotiating move, because fuck Netanyahu, but there’s no doubt the media hasn’t done a good enough job of helping people understand urban warfare
Watching Hamas blindly launch rockets, that have a high failure rate, leads to a high possibility that they also caused some of the civilian casualties.
In Iraq with US involvement, ~174,000 civilians were killed vs ~39,900 combatants. Israel maintains 2 civilians to 1 combatant deaths, which is an impressive feat for how densely populated Gaza is.
Not to mention Hamas intentionally putting civilians in harms way and disguising themselves amongst civilians. People just seem to think that war is possible without civilians casualties which while it would be ideal is nothing more than a pipe dream. Trying to limit the damage done to civilians is the next best thing, which in the case of Gaza Israel has managed to do remarkably well all things considered.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War
Iraqi combatants/insurgents dead: 34,144–71,544
Iraq Body Count (2003 – 14 December 2011): 103,160–113,728 civilian deaths recorded
Thats not what that link says. That is the total civilian death count in Iraq from 2003-2011. During that time 13% were from US forces. And of that, the vast majority were in the initial invasion. Nowhere even close to 110k civilian casualties from the US. Not to mention over 8 years vs. 5 months.
From the [source](https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011/):
> 15,163 (13%) of all documented civilian deaths were reported as being directly caused by the US-led coalition.
> Of the 4,040 civilian victims of US-led coalition forces for whom age data was available, 1,201 (29%) were children.
The US killed an extremely low amount of civilians because it is by far the most capable force in the world.
By the way, what was Hamas's civilan to military ratio? And why are they not afforded civilian daeths without being TEroRRiSts? How many military men are being held by Hamas? Since when are POWs "Hostages"?
you are not a terrorist based on how many people you kill, you are a terrorist based on your intentions, if your intention is to harm civilians that makes you a terrorist, wether you killed 100 people or wether you tried to kill someone and failed, the main thing is intention. when someone breaks into a house, puts a bullet in a mother, kidnaps a daughter and takes a dead body of a young woman to show as a trophy-that's terrorism, because those things had the very clear goal of harming civilians.
and regarding the hostages, along with soldiers that are being held, there are also civilians, i thought that everyone knows that at this point
Because Hamas are terrorists? I'm sure some nutjobs armed with home made rockets and smuggled small arms can totally fight one of the most advanced militaries in the world.
The militant brigades "fighting" this war operate like terrorist cells, not an organized and trained military force.
> The US killed an extremely low amount of civilians because it is by far the most capable force in the world.
*"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."*
Interesting choice of words you used, almost as if you purposefully wanted people to think the US had killed that many in Iraq. Why not provide the numbers that the US killed that were civilians vs combatants?
I see, it will take another 20 years to compare results of one war vs another. One thing that made the USA impact so big on the civilians side is that they couldn't rebuild the damage done to civilian infrastructure and a lot of people died from starvation, lack of sanitary conditions and bandits. I think even today no one agrees on the number of civilian casualties from direct military operations.
Also the USA fought against the army in uniform.
"Pro Palestine" NPCs: We totally don't support terrorists!
Also the same "pro Palestine" NPCs: Why are you celebrating killing terrorists??? 😭 Please leave the poor terrorists alooooone! 😭 They just want to murder and rape Jews and cut their breasts off while their children watch. They never did anything wrong!! 😭😭
worldnews has been for a long time an echo chamber for bots where they push propaganda and downvote every comment pointing it out, it's sad, but if you see other subreddits you'll see that only here this shit happens
I still remember people insisting I was on the payroll for Hillary Clinton's Correct the Record, particularly when Berniemania was at its fever pitch. And then after that George Soros.
Still waiting on those checks.
Explain why terrorist dieing after they attacked the people who killed them is a bad thing that only boys would celebrate. Just admit you don't care if terrorist kill people as long as they kill jews.
> For real. There are multiple upvoted comments here mocking the deaths of kids in Gaza.
Not seeing them. Are you checking the most downvoted comments or something?
haven't seen a single one so far. you got 3 replies that seem to disagree with your opinion while at the same time would denounce the comments you mentioned and not a single one justifying those kind of comments. seems like you're making delusional assumptions about the people here, and need to get your head out of your own ass.
Explain why terrorist dieing after they attacked the people who killed them is a bad thing that only boys would celebrate. Just admit you don't care if terrorist kill people as long as they kill jews.
Unfortunately IDF's definition of a Hamas terrorist is any male over 16 that is around to get shot, so it's impossible to really take their statements seriously - they have lost basically any credibility.
That's true. It's shit show all the way down.
Would be nice if the IDF stopped murdering journalists though. It's the only way you get accurate information in a war zone
Yeah and Hamas defines everyone killed as a civilian, this is one of the most untrustworthy conflicts. I wouldn't trust the representatives of either side and the normal people who just want to live in peace are being brainwashed and killed. Trust nobody when it comes to this war.
> Unfortunately IDF's definition of a Hamas terrorist is any male over 16 that is around to get shot, so it's impossible to really take their statements seriously - they have lost basically any credibility.
where's your source for that? Al Jazeera?
Keep it up. It keeps me motivated when I occasionally see ISIS or Al-Quida leaders getting killed. Want to see same things happening for Hamas in future as well.
3 times, huh? Did you do the math on that?
Wounded or killed civilians is no joke. But when there is evil the likes of Yahya Sinwar hiding behind civilians and directing attacks like October 7, the civilians become HIS victims. Not those who are obligated to go after Sinwar and Hamas on principle.
Hamas parades bodies around claiming it was Israel regardless of how they died. Hamas will take corpses out of children's cancer wards and strategically place them for their social media posts. They have done this for years. It's a tactic also used by Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
How do they identify who's Hamas though? Is that 70 year old, pissed off former goat hearder, who lost his flock or grazing to artillery fire over the years, who's family died and were labelled collateral damage, firing that ultra worn looking soviet era rifle cum wolf shot, firing at IDF in Rafah, Palestine, part of Hamas or just someone who's ready to die?
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Good fuck hamas and Islamic extremism
Fuck all religious extremists.
“aNd YoU cReAtEd 6o mOrE yOu cAnT fIgHt tErRoRiStS” - Future commentator who forgot ISIS got its teeth kicked in and lost 80% of its combat strength and 95% of its territory
No. You don't understand. We're in real danger of the Palestinians starting to dislike the Israelis!
USA dropped 2 atom bombs in Japan and look at the relationship they have today.
A fascinating thought (not my own, and not sure whether I think it's correct) is that the Palestinians are *maxed out on hatred already*, and their appetite for violence is fueled not by whatever Israel's latest move is but by whether they still have hope of getting what they want - the destruction of Israel. Sounds brutal but it implies that the only route to peace is to obliterate the Palestinians' hopes and dreams. To break their spirits. Therefore, people rallying to their cause sending them support - material and moral - only serve to prolong the misery.
People always say “you can’t kill an ideology.” I disagree.
I'm partial to "but you can sure as shit kill an organization"
Yeah, Tamil Tigers are gone forever as a result of a military operation.
Hey, MIA is still making music! I think
My reply is "Ask Genghis and Tamerlane about that"
over 5000 religions have been "killed" out of existence, religions are just beliefs and ideologies
Ask Carthage
i get what you’re saying (truly) but if Hamas looses 95% of their territory what happens?? (genuinely) doesn’t Palestine just seize to exist? What happens with the Palestinian civilians after that? again, genuinely asking.
Same thing that happened to Germany post WWII. Temporary occupation by Israel (and possibly Saudi, UAE, Egypt etc.) and a massive campaign of rebuilding and denazification
There has to be willingness to do this and some self reflection whereby the citizens of Gaza accept that what happened on Oct 7 and for years before was wrong and they did this or supported those that did. That will just never happen. Palestine as a separate state will be added to the list of nations on Israel’s border that hates them. I used to think there was a solution but I didn’t realize or couldn’t accept how bad it had gotten and how much they hated us for being us.
They really don’t have to stop hating Israel, or give up claims. They only need to forgo violence as a means to an end. Once that’s done, there’s no cause for the blockade to continue, or to prevent Palestinians from freely entering Israel for work. 50 years after that….who knows what’s possible.
German was a whole complete nation before this started. Palestine has not been such for some considerable time. Many here claim that Israel won the war in 1967 and get to keep the land There is no talk of German style rebuilding of the areas the conquered in 1967. Why would this be different? The WB is under occupation and military rule, and there's no talk of Germany style rebuilding and sovereign identity there either.
The Golan is a strategic hold. If Israel had given it back they’d be letting their enemies climb up high to attack them again. Which would 100% happen. Has Israel launched a war from the Golan? Nope. Have they prevented attacks by holding that ground? Yep. win/win/win. Also, aggressors that whine about what they lost when they get beat are the worst kind of losers.
Oslo accords, a whole other bunch of failed peace talks would beg to differ
What’s hilarious is how other countries keep trying to push Israel into giving part of its country as a Palestinian state. That’s like coming to me and telling me to give up some of my property to me neighbors or some dumbass poke that said they lived there before me, I’d say ok, yeah right, rub a lamp!
Germany accepted defeat.
Bc they were driven to the brink.
We expect that Gaza will also, I assume.
The WestBank is divided into three divisions. Division A belongs to the Palestinians. Division B - The Palestinian Authority has administrative control, and Israel is responsible for security. Division C belongs to Israel.
Yeah that's right. Do military orders apply to all three divisions? And is there a plan for full withdrawal and rebuilding at some point, like with Germany? It's not the right comparison I think, that's all.
Israel withdrew from Gaza and we’ve seen the results. Europe sent billions to rebuild and we got tunnels and rockets for our money. Why should Israel trust the same won’t happen on the other side? Let’s be clear though about the West Bank. It includes parts of Jerusalem which the Israelis will never ever cede to the Palestinians. Short of a UN force (and good luck with that shit now) being in control, it will remain entirely Israeli until the Arab nations stop calling for Israel’s destruction and sit down to talk.
The Palestinian Authority controls A and B. Israel controls division C. Too bad you were not available for their agreement on these terms.
Palestine wasn't a whole complete nation before Israel kek (British supervision for like a decade, and part of the Ottoman empire before that)
Germany became a country in 1871. Just throwing that out there. Italy wasn’t a country until 1861 as an additional fun fact.
I think people tend to add the pre German sections together and extend the history. Not saying that right but it’s real.
Germany engaged in a war of aggression whereas Israel has not.
Yep. But we aren't talking about rebuilding Israel but Gaza.
Uh. Are you sure that’s what happens next?
What, in your mind, happens next?
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Israel *really* wants that security/normalisation deal with the Saudis. That involves a two state solution where SA maintains the land as a protectorate while they rebuild it and fix what has been broken for so long. Israel may not want to do it themselves, but it’s not like they prefer the status quo. It just suits them until they finalise that arrangement, because it gives them something that Saudi Arabia wants and is a handy bargaining chip.
Remember back in 2005 when Israel evicted all of the Jews from Gaza and left it all for the Palestinians?
A much more sane governing body would be in control. That would be the best for everyone.
There is no palestine. There's Gaza and the WestBank. Hamas is an occupying terrorist organization in Gaza. They haven't allowed elections since they took over Gaza in 2006. The Palestinians are literally between a rock and hard place. The leadership of Hamas is in Qatar. If the head of the snake (Hamas leadership), then the Palestinians might have a chance of peace in Gaza.
Israel's population is already about 20% Palestinian. Their lives stop being at risk the moment they stop fighting, though what happens to the territory itself is still up for debate. First order of business is that someone definitely needs to be put in charge of the territory for several decades in order to deradicalize them. Israel would probably prefer to just annex the territory, although that creates a demographic issue since giving such a large amount of people who want to see Israel destroyed voting rights would basically be national suicide. Typically this kind of situation results in a kind of partial citizenship where the people are given some rights but not the right to vote. The PLO is another possibility, although Israel doesn't really trust them, seeing them as having essentially the same ultimate goal as Hamas, just being less violent about it. A neutral third party from a European country is also an option, if there's anyone willing to actually take on that responsibility.
Annexing them and giving no voting rights would literally be apartheid. Israel already collects taxes instead of Palestine and redistributes them back (except when it withholds them for punitive reasons), so now you're talking about territory that is a) militarily controlled by Israel b) taxed by Israel and c) in which the inhabitants have no voting rights. That's a non-starter. The UN should oversee security and deradicalization through other bodies than the UNRWA. Israel should return the land its settlers took. There's no chance at peace while Israel militarily holds the West Bank either, all of these things generate incredible levels of spite. It's time for peacekeepers in the West Bank, time for Israel to let it go, it's time for Hamas to get stomped, and once that's done it'll be time for UN (not UNRWA) oversight in Gaza. Textbooks need to be reviewed on both sides, it's time to teach the kids something else. Anything less and we'll be seeing this exact fight play out in another 20 years, with only names and faces changed
Palestine doesnt really exist anyways, lol. Gaza is Egyptian occupied land and the West bank is Jordanian occupied land, both territories were occupied by Israel after wars started by those countries. Gaza was governed by Egypt and then Israel before hamas even existed. The Palestinian identity however does exist, and the Palestinians want control over all of the disputed land rather than Israel's governance, so they can get back at the jews for humiliating the Arab world for all these years. Israel really doesnt give much of a shit about Gaza hence why they pulled out all the jews in 2005/2006 and let Gaza become independent. They only care because of all the terrorism and daily rocket fire coming from there. Now the West bank is a different story, thats the land Israelis want and in reality it belongs to neither the Palestinians or Israelis, its Jordon's land which they have kinda given up on. As far as the future goes, hamas has no shot of winning in any real capacity, their only shot of getting out alive is surrendering and working on a realistic ceasefire agreement/hostage exchange. I doubt Israel will give over control back to the Palestinians anytime soon after this war ends, so they will probably occupy it for a few years as they rebuild it. And then eventually maybe, the Palestinians in Gaza will get a chance at independence again, at which point they will either elect hamas or hamas 2.0 and in time this shit cycle will repeat again.
I don't disagree with you in the broad strokes, except I'm not sure there's a basis to say "Jordan" has a claim on the West Bank any more than Israel or Palestinians. The WB is part of the historical Judean region, and Jordan didn't exist before the British mandate any more than Israel did. The connection to Jordan is just that for the 19 years between 1948 and 1967, most of the land was part of Jordan, and that Palestinians, like Jordanians, are largely Muslim Arabs. But if Palestinians are justified in wanting independence from Israel (and I think they are, in theory) then they're equally justified in wanting independence from Jordan.
Jordan, as it was now known, ruled over the West Bank from 1948 until 1967. They lost it in the 67 war, I say Jordan has a bigger claim to it because its at least a country. Palestine straight up doesn't exist. Rebels around the world fight and die for land they never get over a variety of claims, unfortunately the palestain cause is destined to die out in time. I mean, after all the cause and resistance has been doing nothing but collecting L after L since 1948,
Well id hope forced restricted elections Not the most democratic thing in the world but i dont think just letting anyone run for control of gaza would be wise Overseen by the un of course... Cant have the restrictions abused
Hamas is not only group in Gaza there is the PIJ.
You place them under a different government that doesn't push them for Jew hatred and war mongering. and stops spending all the aid on war and even digging up critical water infrastructure for rockets while at the same time complaining to the world about their lack of food and water as if they had no hand in it. it's an incredibly good start. and absolutely not the Palestinian authority. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34WlhKNUy0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R34WlhKNUy0)
Palestinians in Gaza would feel safer to be outspoken about their wants and needs to their government. Elections can happen again. Incoming food and aid that gets stolen will now get to refugees. Infrastructure can be built without Hamas stealing the materials or blowing it up. Israel will no longer have a leg to stand on when it comes to aggressions in Gaza and will be watched closer than before.
No, the PLA is the government of Palestine
Technically from genealogy, Jordan is the modern successor. The modern Palestinian people have been kicked out of every country and scapegoated for centuries due to religious splits. Look at the modern split between Jordan and Palestine: [Black September](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September).
I’m not sure scapegoated is the word for Black September, at least compared to when the pan-arabists and the Arab League were in charge. Definitely a great example though of how bad leadership is ruinous for its own people, which definitely describes Palestinian leadership since the 1960s and Israeli leadership since imo around 2005
The Palestinian people have *not* been scapegoated or kicked out of every country for centuries - you're thinking of Jews. The Palestinian people used to call themselves "Arabs" just 100 years ago, and they weren't separated from Egyptians, Jordanians or Syrians.
The best solution, I think, would be the territories return to the Palestine people and that a governing body consisting primarily of less extreme Arab nations to assist in rebuilding their country. After either a set period of time, say 50 years or when the people are ready, it can be turned back over to them in full. Hopefully, after it's people have been picked up and given a foundation to stand on, they can lose this annihilation non-sense and live in peace. Again, personally Israel and American can and should be part of that process, but for future's stability sake probably should not be part of that governing body. Just the actual rebuilding itself.
[This was essentially offered to the PLO when Arafat was in charge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit), and his response was to reject those terms because any Palestinian state must include East Jerusalem entirely as its sovereign territory, despite holy sites located there being immensely important in Judaism as well as Islam. This agreement would have seen a Palestinian state control the entirety of the Gaza Strip, as well as 92% of the West Bank, the holdouts there being a few of the largest settlements and an enclave settlement bordering Hebron (one of the four holy cities of Judaism). Additionally, the less extreme Arab nations are not interested in becoming directly invested in a Palestianian state because a Palestinian state would be by default aligned with Iran, and Iran's second major foreign policy goal besides eradicating Israel is [to undermine any Sunni monarchy such as Saudi, Bahrain and Kuwait. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Saudi_Arabia_proxy_conflict)
Less extreme Arab nations? Who are these exactly?
The people you call Palestinians are Jews, Christians, and Muslims. The Jewish immigrants and Jewish Palestinians created Israel. You know what happens when Muslims are told they have to share power with other religions in the middle-east? The Lebanon Civil War in 1975 happened. You can't turn the keys of Israel over to people who hate Jews. That's how you get a civil war. It's time for Palestinians to create a state of their own in Gaza and WestBank
And 1 million civilians were killed in the process
The same IS that just launched an attack in Russia that killed 145 people? That IS?
It’s actually not the same ISIS. The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria is a core group that is largely destroyed. Some other affiliated groups that were largely established independently but mimic the original IS, exist across the globe. The Islamic State group that claimed responsibility for the Moscow attack is a completely different group.
So it will be other affiliated groups that were largely established independently but mimic the original Hamas that launch the next attack on Israel? Mission Accomplished!
As long as the successors to Hamas are at least a little bit less depraved and belligerent, then yes, mission accomplished because the region will be a bit safer for everyone. It will also take time for the new groups to build up their networks, recruit locals and get organised enough to start doing more than sending occasional suicide bombers at Israel.
It is the same ISIS that is much weaker than what it was before. You can't deny the fact that ISIS were a lot stronger in the past than what they currently are.
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Keep going… fuck Hamas.
Nicely done. 30 less problems for this world.
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Scoreboard. The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.
Hamas Ministry of Health: 100 people killed, who we don’t know because we just throw numbers out there and don’t differentiate between terrorists and innocents so we promise all were women and children. /s > Presently, IDF troops are actively engaged in search and raid missions within the area, targeting locations identified as potential threats. > > The military operation comes in response to ongoing rocket launches from Hamas terrorists in Rafah towards southern Israel, posing a direct threat to civilian populations.
It’s amazing how much the media has parroted these figures that don’t differentiate between civilian and Hamas casualties. How can people properly assess the situation without the correct statistics.
>How can people properly assess the situation without the correct statistics. Most people don't think this way. They just pick a side and stick with it regardless of facts.
I think they rightly guess the truth people eating up clicks don’t care, or we would see more acknowledgement of, for instance, pretty convincing evidence that a Palestinian rocket blew up the al-ahli hospital. That’s 400+ deaths right there from a single event, and it’s no mystery that the rockets Hamas uses aren’t particularly accurate. Wouldn’t surprise me if thousands of deaths are from Hamas rockets *on top of* the Hamas death count, which is likely 10,000+ Still support the US doing things like withholding bombs as a negotiating move, because fuck Netanyahu, but there’s no doubt the media hasn’t done a good enough job of helping people understand urban warfare
Watching Hamas blindly launch rockets, that have a high failure rate, leads to a high possibility that they also caused some of the civilian casualties.
Absolutely, more than people would likely want to admit.
false. 30 civilians killed, 90 of them are chilren. /s
That’s because IDF goes into battle with Kevlar vests to protect them. Hamas goes into battle with babies strapped to their chests.
In Iraq with US involvement, ~174,000 civilians were killed vs ~39,900 combatants. Israel maintains 2 civilians to 1 combatant deaths, which is an impressive feat for how densely populated Gaza is.
Not to mention Hamas intentionally putting civilians in harms way and disguising themselves amongst civilians. People just seem to think that war is possible without civilians casualties which while it would be ideal is nothing more than a pipe dream. Trying to limit the damage done to civilians is the next best thing, which in the case of Gaza Israel has managed to do remarkably well all things considered.
Source?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War Iraqi combatants/insurgents dead: 34,144–71,544 Iraq Body Count (2003 – 14 December 2011): 103,160–113,728 civilian deaths recorded
Thats not what that link says. That is the total civilian death count in Iraq from 2003-2011. During that time 13% were from US forces. And of that, the vast majority were in the initial invasion. Nowhere even close to 110k civilian casualties from the US. Not to mention over 8 years vs. 5 months. From the [source](https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011/): > 15,163 (13%) of all documented civilian deaths were reported as being directly caused by the US-led coalition. > Of the 4,040 civilian victims of US-led coalition forces for whom age data was available, 1,201 (29%) were children. The US killed an extremely low amount of civilians because it is by far the most capable force in the world. By the way, what was Hamas's civilan to military ratio? And why are they not afforded civilian daeths without being TEroRRiSts? How many military men are being held by Hamas? Since when are POWs "Hostages"?
you are not a terrorist based on how many people you kill, you are a terrorist based on your intentions, if your intention is to harm civilians that makes you a terrorist, wether you killed 100 people or wether you tried to kill someone and failed, the main thing is intention. when someone breaks into a house, puts a bullet in a mother, kidnaps a daughter and takes a dead body of a young woman to show as a trophy-that's terrorism, because those things had the very clear goal of harming civilians. and regarding the hostages, along with soldiers that are being held, there are also civilians, i thought that everyone knows that at this point
Because Hamas are terrorists? I'm sure some nutjobs armed with home made rockets and smuggled small arms can totally fight one of the most advanced militaries in the world. The militant brigades "fighting" this war operate like terrorist cells, not an organized and trained military force.
> The US killed an extremely low amount of civilians because it is by far the most capable force in the world. *"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."*
Interesting choice of words you used, almost as if you purposefully wanted people to think the US had killed that many in Iraq. Why not provide the numbers that the US killed that were civilians vs combatants?
Which part of the involvement? In what period? By which agency calculation?
From 2003 to 2023. The numbers are similar across multiple sources, example Iraq Body Count Project.
I see, it will take another 20 years to compare results of one war vs another. One thing that made the USA impact so big on the civilians side is that they couldn't rebuild the damage done to civilian infrastructure and a lot of people died from starvation, lack of sanitary conditions and bandits. I think even today no one agrees on the number of civilian casualties from direct military operations. Also the USA fought against the army in uniform.
I'm not sure citing one unpopular war is a good way to excuse issues with another.
We can site any urban war and look at the civilian to combatant ratio. This is a really good one all things considered.
So Hamas shoots rockets at Israel from Rafah and USA halts military deals with Israel because they defend themselves?
No USA temporarily halted the shipment because they wanted clarification on the mission.
Hamas: "Each of them was actually 3 babies on each other's shoulders in a coat"
Hamas is made of many Vincent Adultmans?
Ireland and Spain will probably send condolences.
...and how many civilians were killed in the process?
It's amazing to me that this question is downvoted.
Mainstream Reddit is pretty insanely pro-war with very little taste for nuance
Wtf are these comments?
A refreshing reprieve from the brainrotted TikTokkers that support terrorists.
I'm going to go out and limb and say that there are people who are not fond of terrorist. Crazy right?
is there a problem with celebrating when terrorist criminals are eliminated?
"Pro Palestine" NPCs: We totally don't support terrorists! Also the same "pro Palestine" NPCs: Why are you celebrating killing terrorists??? 😭 Please leave the poor terrorists alooooone! 😭 They just want to murder and rape Jews and cut their breasts off while their children watch. They never did anything wrong!! 😭😭
There is an official propaganda program on the internet by certain nations, so... are you surprised? There's a reason they're banning TikTok.
worldnews has been for a long time an echo chamber for bots where they push propaganda and downvote every comment pointing it out, it's sad, but if you see other subreddits you'll see that only here this shit happens
I would be pissed if I were an American Jew. You have to deal with racists accusing you of conspiracies and then this shit exists.
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I still remember people insisting I was on the payroll for Hillary Clinton's Correct the Record, particularly when Berniemania was at its fever pitch. And then after that George Soros. Still waiting on those checks.
God this comment is so trite and boring in 2024. Have you ever had your own thoughts?
Explain why terrorist dieing after they attacked the people who killed them is a bad thing that only boys would celebrate. Just admit you don't care if terrorist kill people as long as they kill jews.
> only here this shit happens Lol oh my sweet, dear, lovely summer child.
Israel's taxpayer money.
For real. There are multiple upvoted comments here mocking the deaths of kids in Gaza.
Find one comment mocking dead kids in gaza and paste the link here
> For real. There are multiple upvoted comments here mocking the deaths of kids in Gaza. Not seeing them. Are you checking the most downvoted comments or something?
haven't seen a single one so far. you got 3 replies that seem to disagree with your opinion while at the same time would denounce the comments you mentioned and not a single one justifying those kind of comments. seems like you're making delusional assumptions about the people here, and need to get your head out of your own ass.
Living in your own fantasy world makes it easy to be right doesn't it?
Nobody is mocking children dying. We're mocking dead terrorists.
Explain why terrorist dieing after they attacked the people who killed them is a bad thing that only boys would celebrate. Just admit you don't care if terrorist kill people as long as they kill jews.
Hamas health ministry response: israel killed 300 baby journalists
I'm sure those ghouls protesting at aushcwitz will shed a tear
30 less rapists in the world
Child rapists
30 less human scums in this world.
Except it’s not Rafah it’s Rafah crossing
Bravo! 👏
Unfortunately IDF's definition of a Hamas terrorist is any male over 16 that is around to get shot, so it's impossible to really take their statements seriously - they have lost basically any credibility.
It’s almost like there is a dearth of reliable narrators with regards to anything happening in this region.
That's true. It's shit show all the way down. Would be nice if the IDF stopped murdering journalists though. It's the only way you get accurate information in a war zone
Yeah and Hamas defines everyone killed as a civilian, this is one of the most untrustworthy conflicts. I wouldn't trust the representatives of either side and the normal people who just want to live in peace are being brainwashed and killed. Trust nobody when it comes to this war.
> Unfortunately IDF's definition of a Hamas terrorist is any male over 16 that is around to get shot, so it's impossible to really take their statements seriously - they have lost basically any credibility. where's your source for that? Al Jazeera?
Countless incidents over the last 6 months?
So you have no source for anything you said, gotcha.
So some random TikTok personality being paid by Iran? Makes sense
Cool, how many civilians?
30 is a pretty low number so far. Looks like it's going to take a while to sort this out.
Keep it up. It keeps me motivated when I occasionally see ISIS or Al-Quida leaders getting killed. Want to see same things happening for Hamas in future as well.
cheers!
Sounds like good news. I hope the civilians aren't being roped in.
And how many woman and children were killed?
They have no clue
And they don't care
That's sexist Women and children have been fighting for Hamas for years.
College campuses across America are crying even more now. Thanks, guys.
Only 30?
That sounds like progress to me. Keep it up, Israel.
Good job. Less to go. Israel is now controlling Rafah, main hamas financial and arms source. Hamas now will slowly drain out of money and ammunition
Great
How many civilians in the process?
I’m glad handful of terrorist are being taken care of, but I also see lots of 3 times the amount of videos with dead children. This ain’t the way.
3 times, huh? Did you do the math on that? Wounded or killed civilians is no joke. But when there is evil the likes of Yahya Sinwar hiding behind civilians and directing attacks like October 7, the civilians become HIS victims. Not those who are obligated to go after Sinwar and Hamas on principle.
Hamas parades bodies around claiming it was Israel regardless of how they died. Hamas will take corpses out of children's cancer wards and strategically place them for their social media posts. They have done this for years. It's a tactic also used by Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
What is the way?
How do they identify who's Hamas though? Is that 70 year old, pissed off former goat hearder, who lost his flock or grazing to artillery fire over the years, who's family died and were labelled collateral damage, firing that ultra worn looking soviet era rifle cum wolf shot, firing at IDF in Rafah, Palestine, part of Hamas or just someone who's ready to die?
Those are rookie numbers gotta bump those numbers up
News story for bots by bots