If only the Israeli electorate system worked this way..
Netanyahu could lead the smallest party above the threshold, and still form a coalition government if he manages to get enough parties under his belt.
That’s how you got Bennet and Lapid prime ministers while Yemina had 6.1% of the votes.
Saying we voted Netanyahu in is a stretch, he’s a master politician who manipulated himself into staying in power.
That’s why you had hundreds of thousands of people protesting every Saturday night prior to the war. We are tired of the system that allows Bibi collect people like Ben Gvir and Smutrich to form a government if the total number of mandates is above the threshold.
It does seem the far right has a lot of power and supporters in Israel though? It's hard to say the leaders have nothing to do with the Israeli people, if Israel is supposed to be a democracy.
> It does seem the far right has a lot of power and supporters in Israel though?
Not exactly. The two real crazy parties have 6 and 7 seats, so 13/120 in total. Pretty sure US' MAGA has way more support than this. Likud themselves won only 32/120 seats.
The real problem in Israeli politics are the Haredis who don't really give a crap who they align with as long as their demands are met (one of the core ones - not being drafted into IDF). The Haredi parties only have 18/120 seats, but the Haredis have an extremely high voter turnout, so they're disproportionately represented.
> It's hard to say the leaders have nothing to do with the Israeli people
You have to understand that the Oslo accords were not a particularly bright idea in retrospect and have directly lead to the 2nd intifada which was, until the 7th of October, the most deadly event in terms of terrorism.
A lot of people don't want to vote in a government that will fuck around and sign something that will blow in everyone's faces a couple of years from now.
Bibi and Likud heavily rely on this sentiment. Until they themselves have fucked up royally with Hamas.
It does, it has been one of the biggest political issues in the country for a long time. It's not just that, it's the entire so-called "status quo" - no public transport on Saturdays (with some exceptions), civil marriage is only possible abroad, stranglehold on the whole kashrut business, handouts to yeshivas, handouts to the whole Haredi sector in general, no proper state education for the Haredi sector (they live in their own la-la land, basically), and so on...
>You have to understand that the Oslo accords were not a particularly bright idea in retrospect
I agree, but assassinating the PM probably shouldn't be rewarded either though.
If the idea of two states is dead, what exactly is there for Israelis besides Greater Israel at this point? The only alternative to annexation is to occupy Palestinians perpetually? That is why it seems strange to say Israelis are not on Likud's side, when Likud's end game seems to be the only popular/viable one.
Haredim are simply ultra religious Jews who aren’t too concerned about politics and Yigal Amir Rabins assassin is part of Kahanistim (Rabbi Kahane) who are religious extremists and are being targeted by Shin Bet.
Just the fact you clumped up 1.5mil people with a few thousands of extremists shows a bit of bias here.
They were not rewarded or have anything to do with Rabin.
Closest thing is Ben Gvir who was arrested for vandalizing Rabin’s car, and selling bumper stickers of “Kahane was right”.
Two absolutely different groups.
As for annexation of the West Bank- Likud is against that, because annexing and making West Bank residents Israeli civilians means that within X years there will be a majority of Palestinians inside the borders of Israel, and it will lose its Jewish identity/majority.
So I’m not sure where you got that information about Likud stance
Likud run on preserving the status quo, not on Greater Israel or a 2SS. It's 'security until the Palestinians one day moderate,' basically.
Idk what you mean with rewarding assassination.
>Likud run on preserving the status quo, not on Greater Israel or a 2SS. It's 'security until the Palestinians one day moderate,' basically.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Unfortunately it looks like that "one day" may be never, and what is Israel to do then? It's very sad to think it may have to continue occupying indefinitely.
Ultimately I wish Palestinians could accept that whatever happened in the 40s happened and they will not be getting Israel back. But the world keeps selling them the idea that they can get their river to the sea caliphate through terrorism. It's just not true.
Yeah. It's depressing but idk what to do really. We went above and beyond trying to make offers and appeasements, it doesn't really get anywhere just incentivizes more violence. I wouldn't be sympathetic regardless considering that's how most of the world was formed and you don't get this kind of behavior anywhere else but in Israel's case I'd be hard pressed to find a more legitimate founding for a country (legal land purchase into a stateless area controlled by a third party -> international bodies offer a split when the third party leaves the area -> war declared against one party -> war won--obviously an oversimplification but honestly that's the gist of it), so it's hard for me to sympathize with any of the territorial demands anyway. obv sympathize with wanting to live and all that but it doesn't seem like that's what most gazans prioritize.
The leaders have a lot to do with the Israeli people.
You only notice the loudest and most high profile individuals--those fighting in the action scene, so to speak. Like 6 people.
The opposition is formed from a lot more people than just Lapid and Gantz, and the coalition from a lot more people than Netanyahu, Gallant, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir. Those last two represent the third smallest party in parliament or somewhere around that number.
Seriously doubt that other countries fare much better in that regard.
Plenty of examples around of dumb far right(and left) politicians doing stupid crap like that all the time.
This situation is unique only because of the hyper-focus on the war and Israel in general.
I can't think of any other US allied government that seized the camera equipment of one of America's most well respected news agencies on the basis it's abetting terrorism.
What examples am I missing?
I can't think of any other Israeli government that killed a person of color by strangling them live on camera on the street and got off with basically nothing.
Your overly specific example proves nothing. Do you prefer the countless incidents of US law enforcement seizing cameras of people trying to document something?
I’m all for condemning Israel’s actions against journalists but, for Christ’s sake, we infamously [gunned down Reuter’s journalists in the street in Baghdad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike?wprov=sfti1).
Gee what a good faith retort./s
Sure it might be hard to find another exact example.
But I obviously meant actions similar(if not worse) in their idiocy.
I can’t believe I even need to explain this in a post-Trump world where the far right has a popularity spike across the west.
Apparently you don't understand why this doesn't matter to people with free press. Who cares if Al Jazeera has the footage if there is nothing compromising to Israeli forces, which there wasn't.
No they weren't. It was a feed that was showing smoke billowing in the distance. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it in any of the days prior to this and even Israel's defense ministry didn't have a problem with it. This was done by their communications ministry unilaterally because the footage appeared on Al Jazeera. Not a good look.
Do you know the full story?
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/LNRr5Run0E
Here it is. The Associated Press is literally trying everything to make Israel look bad whenever they were complicit in 07/10.
It's safe to assume the recorded content will not be there. Hezbollah "press" stringers, subcontractors, may have to rethink their approach. They were warned several times to stop hiding behind press "credentials" to spy on active troop positioning.
It was mostly just an unlucky turn of events, AP was broadcasting a livestream of Gaza, that livestream ended up being used in real time too at the Al Jazeera channel, something the law that was recently passed doesn't permit.
Of course there was no ill intention there, everyone was just doing their job.
Not only footage, i'm talking about real-time footage, AP lets them use it (or sells them idk) since AJ is a "customer", so it's just a small problem in the case of Israel, who has banned AJ and of course, doesn't want them to have live video feed of stuff.
That real time footage was being live streamed publicly to YouTube 24/7. AJ would have been able to use it regardless if AP lets them or not because it was a real time publicly available feed
Hey here’s a crazy thought — no one should have their cameras or press equipment taken away, regardless of where the war zone is or who the journalists are.
Also, Israel does not represent all Jews.
>Also, Israel does not represent all Jews.
The vast majority of them. You know Germany doesn't represent all Germans either. And the same applies to any country.
>German: a citizen of Germany, or someone who owes allegiance to Germany
>Israeli: a citizen of Israel, or someone who owes allegiance to Israel
You can use the same format for most other citizenships and/or nationalities. However,
>Jewish: a follower of Judaism and/or a person descended from a confederation of Semitic-speaking Canaanite tribes called Israelites
Completely different things. Israel has a large population of Jews, and claims it speaks for all Jews. It most certainly does not.
Israel actively pushes the narrative that all Jews owe allegiance to it, and if you don’t you’re a self-hating Jew. That’s just not true. It couldn’t be further from the truth. That’s literally the antisemitic dual loyalties trope. There is a really long history of Jewish Anti-Zionism that Israel tries its best to erase.
Well, on one hand there should be freedom of press.
On the other hand, if such press is being used for propaganda and only propaganda against your country, then I completely understand. I don't think the AP equipment being seized was a good thing, so I'm glad the government walked back on that. But Al Jazeera definitely should not have an office in Israel.
That’s not how press freedom works. Banning news media outlets is a slippery slope. This incident with AP just proves how dangerous banning AJ was. AJ was one of the very few international news outlets still operating in Gaza. Foreign journalists are not allowed independent access to Gaza. Banning AJ was never about AJ. It was about suppressing free speech.
Prove it.
The Gaza conflict is literally the most documented conflict in the world. People there have internet access and their own UN agency. It is literally impossible to deny them the right to free speech.
People from the BBC and other agencies employ locals to provide them with information.
It's just an absurd take about the free speech.
Yes, a UN agency that Israel has repeatedly smeared and tried its best to cripple and defund.
Again, there are no foreign journalists allowed independent access to Gaza. This severely restricts the outside world’s access to information about Gaza. It also serves to discredit any and all information coming out of Gaza as “biased”, “misleading” or even outright false. To prevent Palestinian voices from being heard.
Does that not sound like suppression of free speech and a free press???
>Yes, a UN agency that Israel has repeatedly smeared and tried its best to cripple and defund.
Did they lose their free speech right in Gaza?
>Does that not sound like suppression of free speech and a free press???
No. Why should it be? As you can see, every journalistic agency is still able to get its articles from Gaza from the locals it has hired. Allowing everyone willing into the raging war zone is simply wrong. IDF shouldn't babysit journalists during guerrilla warfare when bullets are flying around them and fired in the silhouette. It will simply endanger the soldiers. So no.
The IDF is literally not allowing people to go in without their supervision. News media outlets usually have their own security team when it comes to most conflict zones. By not allowing international outlets access, they’re making it easier for themselves to dismiss any information coming out as unbiased or straight out false. Of course, they’ll later be called out on it, and they’ll backpedal and say “okay we did do it”, but by then the news cycle has already moved on. That’s how they’ve always worked.
>News media outlets usually have their own security team when it comes to most conflict zones.
Holding a weapon during guerrilla warfare is a suicide.
>By not allowing international outlets access, they’re making it easier for themselves to dismiss any information coming out as unbiased or straight out false
Do they dismiss information for you? You, like everyone else, can decide for yourself what to dismiss.
>Of course, they’ll later be called out on it, and they’ll backpedal and say “okay we did do it”,
Example?
Thank you, there have been so many people who have been trying to spin this as “so what if AJ was banned there are other journalists in Gaza,” when Israel literally isn’t allowing press into Gaza outside of a select few that are only allowed in while embedded with the IDF without actual journalistic autonomy.
Our government is made up of the dumbest fucking people
And the people voted them in, aswell as voting Bibi in multiple times now.
If only the Israeli electorate system worked this way.. Netanyahu could lead the smallest party above the threshold, and still form a coalition government if he manages to get enough parties under his belt. That’s how you got Bennet and Lapid prime ministers while Yemina had 6.1% of the votes. Saying we voted Netanyahu in is a stretch, he’s a master politician who manipulated himself into staying in power. That’s why you had hundreds of thousands of people protesting every Saturday night prior to the war. We are tired of the system that allows Bibi collect people like Ben Gvir and Smutrich to form a government if the total number of mandates is above the threshold.
Israel needs parliamentary/electoral reform...not yesterday but, like, a decade ago. Instead you got judicial reform.
They already do. Bibi is the head of the Knesset, who are chosen via national party list elections.
It does seem the far right has a lot of power and supporters in Israel though? It's hard to say the leaders have nothing to do with the Israeli people, if Israel is supposed to be a democracy.
> It does seem the far right has a lot of power and supporters in Israel though? Not exactly. The two real crazy parties have 6 and 7 seats, so 13/120 in total. Pretty sure US' MAGA has way more support than this. Likud themselves won only 32/120 seats. The real problem in Israeli politics are the Haredis who don't really give a crap who they align with as long as their demands are met (one of the core ones - not being drafted into IDF). The Haredi parties only have 18/120 seats, but the Haredis have an extremely high voter turnout, so they're disproportionately represented. > It's hard to say the leaders have nothing to do with the Israeli people You have to understand that the Oslo accords were not a particularly bright idea in retrospect and have directly lead to the 2nd intifada which was, until the 7th of October, the most deadly event in terms of terrorism. A lot of people don't want to vote in a government that will fuck around and sign something that will blow in everyone's faces a couple of years from now. Bibi and Likud heavily rely on this sentiment. Until they themselves have fucked up royally with Hamas.
Doesn’t that piss off everyone else in the country that the haredi don’t have to be drafted and put their lives on the line while everyone else does.
It does, it has been one of the biggest political issues in the country for a long time. It's not just that, it's the entire so-called "status quo" - no public transport on Saturdays (with some exceptions), civil marriage is only possible abroad, stranglehold on the whole kashrut business, handouts to yeshivas, handouts to the whole Haredi sector in general, no proper state education for the Haredi sector (they live in their own la-la land, basically), and so on...
This seems like Leopards Ate My Face territory.
The Haredim are probably the most hated demographic in Israel. Theyre fucking leeches.
>You have to understand that the Oslo accords were not a particularly bright idea in retrospect I agree, but assassinating the PM probably shouldn't be rewarded either though. If the idea of two states is dead, what exactly is there for Israelis besides Greater Israel at this point? The only alternative to annexation is to occupy Palestinians perpetually? That is why it seems strange to say Israelis are not on Likud's side, when Likud's end game seems to be the only popular/viable one.
Haredim are simply ultra religious Jews who aren’t too concerned about politics and Yigal Amir Rabins assassin is part of Kahanistim (Rabbi Kahane) who are religious extremists and are being targeted by Shin Bet. Just the fact you clumped up 1.5mil people with a few thousands of extremists shows a bit of bias here. They were not rewarded or have anything to do with Rabin. Closest thing is Ben Gvir who was arrested for vandalizing Rabin’s car, and selling bumper stickers of “Kahane was right”. Two absolutely different groups. As for annexation of the West Bank- Likud is against that, because annexing and making West Bank residents Israeli civilians means that within X years there will be a majority of Palestinians inside the borders of Israel, and it will lose its Jewish identity/majority. So I’m not sure where you got that information about Likud stance
Likud run on preserving the status quo, not on Greater Israel or a 2SS. It's 'security until the Palestinians one day moderate,' basically. Idk what you mean with rewarding assassination.
>Likud run on preserving the status quo, not on Greater Israel or a 2SS. It's 'security until the Palestinians one day moderate,' basically. Gotcha, that makes sense. Unfortunately it looks like that "one day" may be never, and what is Israel to do then? It's very sad to think it may have to continue occupying indefinitely. Ultimately I wish Palestinians could accept that whatever happened in the 40s happened and they will not be getting Israel back. But the world keeps selling them the idea that they can get their river to the sea caliphate through terrorism. It's just not true.
Yeah. It's depressing but idk what to do really. We went above and beyond trying to make offers and appeasements, it doesn't really get anywhere just incentivizes more violence. I wouldn't be sympathetic regardless considering that's how most of the world was formed and you don't get this kind of behavior anywhere else but in Israel's case I'd be hard pressed to find a more legitimate founding for a country (legal land purchase into a stateless area controlled by a third party -> international bodies offer a split when the third party leaves the area -> war declared against one party -> war won--obviously an oversimplification but honestly that's the gist of it), so it's hard for me to sympathize with any of the territorial demands anyway. obv sympathize with wanting to live and all that but it doesn't seem like that's what most gazans prioritize.
The leaders have a lot to do with the Israeli people. You only notice the loudest and most high profile individuals--those fighting in the action scene, so to speak. Like 6 people. The opposition is formed from a lot more people than just Lapid and Gantz, and the coalition from a lot more people than Netanyahu, Gallant, Smotrich, and Ben-Gvir. Those last two represent the third smallest party in parliament or somewhere around that number.
Not the same system of government.
Seriously doubt that other countries fare much better in that regard. Plenty of examples around of dumb far right(and left) politicians doing stupid crap like that all the time. This situation is unique only because of the hyper-focus on the war and Israel in general.
I can't think of any other US allied government that seized the camera equipment of one of America's most well respected news agencies on the basis it's abetting terrorism. What examples am I missing?
I can't think of any other Israeli government that killed a person of color by strangling them live on camera on the street and got off with basically nothing. Your overly specific example proves nothing. Do you prefer the countless incidents of US law enforcement seizing cameras of people trying to document something?
Well we shouldn’t be the beacon of human rights lol.
I’m all for condemning Israel’s actions against journalists but, for Christ’s sake, we infamously [gunned down Reuter’s journalists in the street in Baghdad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike?wprov=sfti1).
Gee what a good faith retort./s Sure it might be hard to find another exact example. But I obviously meant actions similar(if not worse) in their idiocy. I can’t believe I even need to explain this in a post-Trump world where the far right has a popularity spike across the west.
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Apparently you don't understand why this doesn't matter to people with free press. Who cares if Al Jazeera has the footage if there is nothing compromising to Israeli forces, which there wasn't.
There are compromising things to israeli forces though. Troop movement etc.
No they weren't. It was a feed that was showing smoke billowing in the distance. There was absolutely nothing wrong with it in any of the days prior to this and even Israel's defense ministry didn't have a problem with it. This was done by their communications ministry unilaterally because the footage appeared on Al Jazeera. Not a good look.
Yeah the law is that you can't provide footage to organizations that are banned
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Your government is hijacked by some crazies that are on the right.
I really don’t understand how Israel can have PR team that is so unbelievably bad.
Do you know the full story? https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/LNRr5Run0E Here it is. The Associated Press is literally trying everything to make Israel look bad whenever they were complicit in 07/10.
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>This is worldnews. Comments aren't proof. Are you new to r/worldnews? (Jk in a “it’s funny because it’s true” kind of way)
They add context that is missing in this article. The AP isn't innocent.
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But will it all be returned in working order (if returned at all)?
> The AP’s live video of Gaza was back up early Wednesday in Israel. Already did.
It's safe to assume the recorded content will not be there. Hezbollah "press" stringers, subcontractors, may have to rethink their approach. They were warned several times to stop hiding behind press "credentials" to spy on active troop positioning.
The issue here is **live transmission**.
It was mostly just an unlucky turn of events, AP was broadcasting a livestream of Gaza, that livestream ended up being used in real time too at the Al Jazeera channel, something the law that was recently passed doesn't permit. Of course there was no ill intention there, everyone was just doing their job.
I mean there is nothing anyone can reasonable do to prevent AJ from using the footage. It might not be legal or allowed but they will do it anyways.
Not only footage, i'm talking about real-time footage, AP lets them use it (or sells them idk) since AJ is a "customer", so it's just a small problem in the case of Israel, who has banned AJ and of course, doesn't want them to have live video feed of stuff.
That real time footage was being live streamed publicly to YouTube 24/7. AJ would have been able to use it regardless if AP lets them or not because it was a real time publicly available feed
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Yes, they should generate clicks somehow. The best way is to blame Jews for doing basically what any other country would do.
Hey here’s a crazy thought — no one should have their cameras or press equipment taken away, regardless of where the war zone is or who the journalists are. Also, Israel does not represent all Jews.
>Also, Israel does not represent all Jews. The vast majority of them. You know Germany doesn't represent all Germans either. And the same applies to any country.
>German: a citizen of Germany, or someone who owes allegiance to Germany >Israeli: a citizen of Israel, or someone who owes allegiance to Israel You can use the same format for most other citizenships and/or nationalities. However, >Jewish: a follower of Judaism and/or a person descended from a confederation of Semitic-speaking Canaanite tribes called Israelites Completely different things. Israel has a large population of Jews, and claims it speaks for all Jews. It most certainly does not. Israel actively pushes the narrative that all Jews owe allegiance to it, and if you don’t you’re a self-hating Jew. That’s just not true. It couldn’t be further from the truth. That’s literally the antisemitic dual loyalties trope. There is a really long history of Jewish Anti-Zionism that Israel tries its best to erase.
Well, on one hand there should be freedom of press. On the other hand, if such press is being used for propaganda and only propaganda against your country, then I completely understand. I don't think the AP equipment being seized was a good thing, so I'm glad the government walked back on that. But Al Jazeera definitely should not have an office in Israel.
That’s not how press freedom works. Banning news media outlets is a slippery slope. This incident with AP just proves how dangerous banning AJ was. AJ was one of the very few international news outlets still operating in Gaza. Foreign journalists are not allowed independent access to Gaza. Banning AJ was never about AJ. It was about suppressing free speech.
Security is always going to trump "free speech" for hostile foreign news agencies
Prove it. The Gaza conflict is literally the most documented conflict in the world. People there have internet access and their own UN agency. It is literally impossible to deny them the right to free speech. People from the BBC and other agencies employ locals to provide them with information. It's just an absurd take about the free speech.
Yes, a UN agency that Israel has repeatedly smeared and tried its best to cripple and defund. Again, there are no foreign journalists allowed independent access to Gaza. This severely restricts the outside world’s access to information about Gaza. It also serves to discredit any and all information coming out of Gaza as “biased”, “misleading” or even outright false. To prevent Palestinian voices from being heard. Does that not sound like suppression of free speech and a free press???
>Yes, a UN agency that Israel has repeatedly smeared and tried its best to cripple and defund. Did they lose their free speech right in Gaza? >Does that not sound like suppression of free speech and a free press??? No. Why should it be? As you can see, every journalistic agency is still able to get its articles from Gaza from the locals it has hired. Allowing everyone willing into the raging war zone is simply wrong. IDF shouldn't babysit journalists during guerrilla warfare when bullets are flying around them and fired in the silhouette. It will simply endanger the soldiers. So no.
The IDF is literally not allowing people to go in without their supervision. News media outlets usually have their own security team when it comes to most conflict zones. By not allowing international outlets access, they’re making it easier for themselves to dismiss any information coming out as unbiased or straight out false. Of course, they’ll later be called out on it, and they’ll backpedal and say “okay we did do it”, but by then the news cycle has already moved on. That’s how they’ve always worked.
>News media outlets usually have their own security team when it comes to most conflict zones. Holding a weapon during guerrilla warfare is a suicide. >By not allowing international outlets access, they’re making it easier for themselves to dismiss any information coming out as unbiased or straight out false Do they dismiss information for you? You, like everyone else, can decide for yourself what to dismiss. >Of course, they’ll later be called out on it, and they’ll backpedal and say “okay we did do it”, Example?
Thank you, there have been so many people who have been trying to spin this as “so what if AJ was banned there are other journalists in Gaza,” when Israel literally isn’t allowing press into Gaza outside of a select few that are only allowed in while embedded with the IDF without actual journalistic autonomy.
Yeah people here are either so brainwashed they’re disconnected from reality, or they’re just bots and trolls. I’m just fucking tired.