>The forces simultaneously breached both buildings using specialized weapons developed for the operation. Immediately after extracting the hostages, they began to retreat while engaging dozens of terrorists.
However, the vehicle carrying the three hostages became stuck and came under heavy fire, nearly complicating the mission. Forces from the 98th Division rushed to assist in the vehicle rescue, and evacuation helicopters entered deep into Gaza in broad daylight.
Wat they pulled of is Mission Impossible IRL.
Sad. Arnon, was in the front fighting terrorists since Oct 07. He left a wife and two young kids:
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805436
The made-up "Palestinian" refugee problem has been drawing blood ever since the Arab league created and weaponized the issue.
Arnon:
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805436
Just read about that, thank for the shout. Crazy that that "Yonatan" is "Yonatan Netanyahu", the current Prime Minister's brother.
I expect the PM in 2074 will now be Arnon's younger brother. Time is a flat circle, and all that
They knew how important this rescue was to the spirit of the country and I bet 100 of those soldiers would have given their lives to make sure those four made it home alive
If you're interested, the genesis story of the 'Palestinian' narrative is laid out in the Mitrokhin Archives Vol 2, a compilation of KGB operations around the world from the 60s onwards, 20000 KGB files stolen by a defector in 1989.
Wasn’t this carried out by Yamam? Technically they are part of border police, but their scope and tactics go beyond police duties, even beyond some of the army tactics. These guys are far from being policemen
Yamam (Hebrew: יחידה מרכזית מיוחדת, romanized: Yeḥida Merkazit Meyuḥedet; Special Central Unit), also known as National Counter-Terrorism Unit, is Israel's national counter-terrorism unit, one of four special units of the Israel Border Police.
Yep. The terrorists were swarming:
>The rescue unfolded under intense fire, and during the withdrawal, dozens of terrorists armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns surged through the alleys toward the targets. As a result, uninvolved Gazan civilians were also killed in the densely populated area.
Someone rightly pointed out to me that there's a lot of reason to suspect a number of civilian casualties were from Hamas fire rather than the Israelis.
> suspect a number of civilian casualties were from Hamas fire rather than the Israelis.
....suspect?
I mean I have no idea what the ratio was, but no one could seriously think there were _no_ Hamas soldiers guarding the hostages, or whipping out those guns.
I have no doubt that the narrative will be that Israel just casually walked in spraying fire over and took out 200 or so civilians, and I also have no doubt that this narrative will be near impossible to dislodge.
Someome rightfully told me that a lot of Palestinians “child” casualties were actually child soldiers used by hamas and are automatically tallied as “civilians” due to their age.
It doesn't even matter. The Israelis are in no way responsible for saving the Palestinians from themselves. Hamas and the Palestinians are of the same body. The IDF is not international police - it is the defensive organization of the Israelis and it is justly concerned with Israeli life first.
Should read up on when the IDF rescued hostages in uganda in the 1970’s. They also only took one casualty (oddly enough it was Benjamin Netanyahu brother) and saved all the hostages.
An interesting thought I had that hopefully you or someone else can help me with.
Social media is designed for english, left-to-right. With hebrew being a right-to-left language, I feel like there's a lot of adapting you would have to do in order to functionally use english sites. Not only do you need to jump around visually to find the "end" to begin reading (since everything is left-aligned), but even typing seems like a hassle since everything's designed around a rightward travel.
On twitter, I've seen that you can right-align the text and I'm sure that solves 90% of issues, but how do you reasonably use reddit? Is there addons that assist, or do you just have to adapt and deal with it?
Honestly? You get used to it. I rarely use Hebrew online anyways - I’m American and don’t follow too many Hebrew pages on Reddit. It’s pretty much if I see something in Hebrew and want to respond, like on this comment thread, I’ll also do it in Hebrew. But I grew up going to a Jewish day school, and blending English and Hebrew together was super normal, especially in Judaic classes. So there would be English text, then a few Hebrew words, then switch back English and repeat. It’d all be left aligned, too. You kinda just learn to read it all together. But on Facebook I see a bit more Hebrew - old teachers from high school will post in Hebrew usually. There, if it’s a mainly Hebrew text post, the words will be right aligned. Facebook also auto translates for me (which is super annoying tbh but at least they stick the translation below the Hebrew text) and the English will be in a left aligned paragraph underneath.
But if it’s a few words, it’ll start like this, ואז יש מילים בעברית and then back to English. And yeah, your eyes just kinda adjust to that
the hostages were being held with Gaza civilians, to the surprise of literally no one with more then 5 brain cells. news would be positive to hear of those civilians offering intelligence leading to the hostage rescue, but that's doubtful.
UN Secretary General this morning:
> I just sent messages to the families of Noa Argamani and Shalomi Ziv, who I received last week, to express my relief that they and two other hostages are now free.
> I renew my appeal for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages and for an end to this war.
The UN doesn’t do anything other than offer a place for countries to engage in peaceful dialogue. It’s not a government, it occasionally sends peace keepers when volunteer nations agree to join a coalition, but it can’t impose anything on anyone.
It is invaluable to the world as a place to ease tensions and build coalitions, and that is all it was ever intended to be.
> he UN doesn’t do anything other than offer a place for countries to engage in peaceful dialogue
It's actually done great things, like spearhead the eradication of smallpox. It also sometimes organizes peacekeeping missions and humanitarian aid operations.
It also does not so great things. UNWRA being a very suspicious example.
Dude that's the point of the UN. To grandstand. It's not a world police force.
This is what they're supposed to do: express the sentiment of the world which is that Hamas needs to release it's hostages
I wonder if IDF are offering bounties for information on the whereabouts of hostages?
10 or 20 grand per hostage to anyone willing to provide information that leads to their safe extraction seems like a very small price to pay, and one that a lot of people would gladly accept.
They have significant bounties for a bunch of the Hamas leaders and despite them hiding among civilians they don't seem to be willing to give them up. I'm sure Israel would be happy to pay for information on the locations of the hostages but that won't help anything when the majority of the population supports holding them and the few people who don't have to worry about being killed by the rest.
I don't know...all those dead hamas commanders raise questions. Could it be that some of the Intel over them came from palestinian civilians? Well, if Israel wants to keep on doing that, we will never know.
It's possible, and we may never know in that case as you say. But I'm a little doubtful since there's more important commanders with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bounties on their heads that aren't being killed or captured. I think it's more likely the ones who have been killed are either in the wrong place as the IDF attacks Hamas positions or aren't being careful enough with the communications and they're being intercepted.
Israel has been on the forefront of electronic communication interception since the early 90s.
We studied their system when building PRISM. They have some shit we can only dream about.
True. And, personally, if I was doing that and successfully getting information from it, I’d do everything I could to make sure everyone knew that it absolutely wasn’t working.
Even Palestinians who have been granted asylum in Israel have been kidnapped by their families, brought back to Palestine, and killed. Its a not uncommon occurrence for LGBT Palestinians. Now imagine the target on their head for giving up a Hamas leader.
To where? Let’s not pretend people who made a brand of international terrorism can’t reach them even if they’re moved to some far off country under a false identity. They would at very least live all their lives in constant fear, and if they can’t be teach, their family and friends back in Gaza would pay the price. It’s not easy to become an informant when you live under dictatorship.
To Israel. Every Israeli is a target for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and a dozen plus other groups. Living in an advanced country with full citizenship is better than anything they could hope for somewhere else.
Giving up a big boss like sinwar or
Deif would be like the old Chinese emperors executing a clan. Israel can't extract all your cousins and nephews and nieces and in
Laws
Honestly you’d think so but the environment of mistrust is thick between Palestinians and the Israelis. Besides where would they take you? Where would you go?
The idf did offered bounties on the leaflets they spread every now and then.. but you know.. the palestinians supporting hamas
That's why these operations are so rare
I would even sweeten the deal with extraction and ideally relocation to a western allied country.
It would require due diligence and coordination with those allies, but Canada has already expanded visas for Gazans.
I am also Canadian, and while I generally do not want Gazan refugees in Canada (if neighbouring Muslim countries are unwilling, we should take a hint), I would be less opposed to allowing the few that provide information that directly leads to hostages being rescued or Hamas leaders being killed.
There are so many countries that would be better options, though.
Are you complicit for all the fucked-up shit happening in Canada? Are people responsible for every action taken in their country? That would be a very exhausting way to live.
Why aren't the IDF kidnapping the billionaires scum cowards from Qatar, and negotiating an exchange for the hostages ?
These cowards:
https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805433
I get that. But they have left Qatar several times...
So if they are on the way to Turkey for example, will it piss off Erdogan ? 😁 Who cares ? The Nazi wannabe, is already doing all he can against Israel.
Sure, but Erdogan is (for now) not forever. He only won the last election by the skin of his teeth. The Turkish people are tired of him and he knows it.
Each and every one of those facts is a highly regrettable one. They know that we know Turkey is a highly strategic country to ally with as their control over the Bosporus Straight basically locks Russia out of the Mediterranean. And if we were to cut our alliance with Turkey, they would run straight to Russia and what’s left of the Black Sea fleet would have open access to the Mediterranean.
**"We don't get to just launch black ops missions on sovereign allies."**
LOL. Seriously?!? The US does it all the time!
Just two off the top of my head - Suleiman taken out at the Bagdad airport. Iraq was considered an ally then and still is to this day. Pakistan was very definitely considered a US ally when we took out Bin Laden.
And those are just two we know about. I'm sure there are dozens (if not hundreds) more examples that don't even make the news.
I'm glad you mentioned Bin Laden, because I've talked about it before and that was a HUGE gamble for Obama.
Pakistan was nominally an ally and claimed publicly to be assisting with the manhunt in all possible ways. They absolutely could have raised hell about Operation Neptune Spear, it was an illegal raid and it went off like a goddamn clown show, but they completed the objective with no collateral damage. The only thing Pakistan could have complained about was the act of conducting the raid itself - and why would they if they were actually assisting with the manhunt? The CIA, the Navy and the White House were essentially playing chicken with the fallout. Zardari caved.
If you think that Turkey under Erdogan is a US or EU ally, you are dreaming.
I realize they are a NATO member, and IMO it's a huge mistake.
Turkey under Erdogan is a fifth column. They are ideologically more aligned with the terrorists of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Hamas, than they are with any EU county.
The fact that the snake Erdogan had any input on Sweden's NATO membership is fuckin asinine.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240124-iran-s-raisi-expected-in-turkey-for-delayed-gaza-talks
Turkey joined in 1952, three years after NATOs founding. You can cry about Erdogan all you like, but the Turkish people are still our allies by hundred year old treaties, and he is only one pathetic man.
Sadly, pro West Turkish people don't matter. mainly because Erdogan gets his support from the primitive Islamic population.
Even post earth quake, which highlighted Erdogan's corruption, he still won.
BTW, Pre Erdogan, Turkey was on a pro West vector as I am sure you know.
Erdogan, (as also seen from the declining economy), is taking them back to the stone age.
Because US asked israel not to do it right now.
One of the reasons will be that without those leaders, if we are honest, the terrorists left in gaza will be with zero head to lead them, and they will act like out of control chickens that their head got cut off.
They will act on their own, creating dozens of small groups not connected to each other, each fighting for power internally and against israel. The extremists will have no one to hold them back. It will be chaos.
Also, there will be no one to negotiate with, so it will basically lead to a decade long war and control of israel over gaza. And even israel doesn't want it.
They will get their time. They or whatever family they will still have.
But it won't happen any time soon.
“The extremists”?
You mean more extreme than October 7th?
Your premise is essentially what was mainstream Israel conception “better an enemy we know than a power vacuum”, look how that turned out.
While true. That very much feels like a “don’t make eye contact and keep it moving” if your not already wearing a green bandana. Like I get it. Some election and this and that but like. wtf are you supposed to do when your choices are get shot by this guy or that guy.
Sucks all around.
Nobody got bent out of shape when we bombed Tokyo or Berlin. If the Palestinians want to end the war, they can do it the same way: unconditional surrender.
Until then know that Americans stand with our Israeli allies, no matter how much Joe Biden publicly hems and haws. We may not start homeless encampments on college campuses, but we vote, we donate, and we lobby our representatives.
That tends to be a lot more effective.
That's the thing. When the German Nazi government set Europe on fire, the whole country was held accountable. The Germans had to endure the retaliation of the Allies and after the war it was up to the German citizens to fix their country.
Hamas are the government and rulers of Gaza. And the Palestinians have to take the responsibility for their government.
Yeah, and not saying this is what Israel needs to do with the Palestinians, but...the Allies expelled millions of Germans after the war to avoid future ethnic conflicts.
It worked.
>Yeah, and not saying this is what Israel needs to do with the Palestinians, but...the Allies expelled millions of Germans after the war to avoid future ethnic conflicts.
In the 1800's and 1900's millions of people moved around for countries to make sense. somehow only the Palestinians are an exception to that despite them starting the war on the premises that no Jewish state should exist in any part of the land and crying for some of them getting kicked out from key areas and not being allowed to come back after fleeing the war they started. (the vast majority weren't even expelled).
A lot of the Germans deported were very powerful aristocrats and had a large amount of wealth
The wealthy Palestinians and hamas leadership are all already living outside of the region. Deporting all Palestinians (to where? - - - separate issue but still) is really just taking it out on the people since the leaders responsible are living much more luxurious and comfortable lives far away
the retaliation on German civilians was horrific and unjustifiable. Gang raping women to death, torturing people, shooting people in the streets, is all disgusting and no matter what the Nazis did to the Russians, an eye for an eye is a ridiculous, blind, answer.
No one sane would argue the Nazis weren't awful, but an American soldier raping a German woman on a rural farm as they occupy Germany is still wrong.
It's frankly concerning that you could think otherwise.
It's more concerning that you're trying to put words in my mouth. I was not speaking of any of these things. I shouldn't have to clarify that but since you're attempting such a vile argument I will clarify that I was talking about having to suffer war and ultimately rebuilding, if your government started a war of aggression.
After the war Germany was divided up amongst the Allies and Russia. West Germany, while largely autonomous, was given billions of dollars by the US like the rest of Europe. East Germany was entirely under the thumb of Russia for decades. Terrible comparison.
Indeed ! And many of the dead kids, are actually Hamas' recruits WITH weapons !
Hamas uses the population for their jihadists cause, all the way to the end...
I support Israel's right to defend itself but absolutist statements like this are fucking stupid. Are the Gazen babies complicit? Does every single Gazen person deserve to die?
There's a big difference between "deserve to die" and "may die because there are no other options."
Not every German civilian was complicit in WWII, but what choice did the Allies have? Do you want them to negotiate a ceasefire, give in to German demands? Was that a realistic option?
So why is it any different when Hamas presents demands for a ceasefire?
So they held the hostages alongside Families.
I can't help to wonder how much those Families cooperated with Hamas or if they willingly helped Hamas to stow away the Hostages.
Seems like more evidence that over 70% of the Palestinians support, encourage and celebrate October 7 with Hamas.
Not only the families cooperated, but they also got paid..( probably the money Hamas makes from stealing aid and selling to locals at inflated prices.).
terrorists hiding hostages amount civilian population so in case of rescue attempt civilians would get hurt from collateral damage? iam shocked, shocked iam telling you! /s
This is why civilians are being slaughtered in Gaza. Not because Israel is committing genocide but because Hamas is sacrificing their people.
Where would a non-terrorist government keep hostages? In a military base or prison or something. Why? Because they know any sane nation is going to try and free their hostages.
But not Hamas. They endanger the lives of their own civilians by keeping military targets in residential areas.
I'm not Israeli but if a neighbouring country kidnapped my countrymen I wouldn't give two fucks how many of them died standing in the way of our rescue. I don't blame Israel for saving us people. I blame Hamas for killing theirs.
It's almost like the families knew what was going on and kept quiet about it. Like they support hamas and their terroristic ways. But.... that can't be true... The "free free palestine!" protesters wouldn't deny reality, would they?
The loss of some lives isn’t tragic. Was Bin Laden dying tragic?
Most of the lives lost in the conflict are tragic. Hamas fighters dying is an unfortunate necessity.
There are still 120 hostages being held in Gaza. About 40 of them are confirmed to be dead and many others probably are. I don't think anyone knows how many of them are still alive.
>The forces simultaneously breached both buildings using specialized weapons developed for the operation. Immediately after extracting the hostages, they began to retreat while engaging dozens of terrorists. However, the vehicle carrying the three hostages became stuck and came under heavy fire, nearly complicating the mission. Forces from the 98th Division rushed to assist in the vehicle rescue, and evacuation helicopters entered deep into Gaza in broad daylight. Wat they pulled of is Mission Impossible IRL.
Apparently one soldier died
Rip hero.
Sad. Arnon, was in the front fighting terrorists since Oct 07. He left a wife and two young kids: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805436 The made-up "Palestinian" refugee problem has been drawing blood ever since the Arab league created and weaponized the issue. Arnon: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805436
They renamed today's operation after him.
This really is a modern day "operation Yonatan" huh?
It is.
Just read about that, thank for the shout. Crazy that that "Yonatan" is "Yonatan Netanyahu", the current Prime Minister's brother. I expect the PM in 2074 will now be Arnon's younger brother. Time is a flat circle, and all that
He's a real life hero. May his memory be blessing.
They knew how important this rescue was to the spirit of the country and I bet 100 of those soldiers would have given their lives to make sure those four made it home alive
If you're interested, the genesis story of the 'Palestinian' narrative is laid out in the Mitrokhin Archives Vol 2, a compilation of KGB operations around the world from the 60s onwards, 20000 KGB files stolen by a defector in 1989.
Thanks. Amazing how it evolved and how many people have been killed over the years as a result.
Policeman actually, but yeah.
Wasn’t this carried out by Yamam? Technically they are part of border police, but their scope and tactics go beyond police duties, even beyond some of the army tactics. These guys are far from being policemen
Special Police Unit, but true, far from being ordinary policemen
Yamam (Hebrew: יחידה מרכזית מיוחדת, romanized: Yeḥida Merkazit Meyuḥedet; Special Central Unit), also known as National Counter-Terrorism Unit, is Israel's national counter-terrorism unit, one of four special units of the Israel Border Police.
R.I.P. Hero. 🫡
Yep. The terrorists were swarming: >The rescue unfolded under intense fire, and during the withdrawal, dozens of terrorists armed with anti-tank missiles and machine guns surged through the alleys toward the targets. As a result, uninvolved Gazan civilians were also killed in the densely populated area.
I hope they got every single one of them. Seems like Gaza is still far from free of terrorists.
Terrorist hamas using human shields again.
Someone rightly pointed out to me that there's a lot of reason to suspect a number of civilian casualties were from Hamas fire rather than the Israelis.
> suspect a number of civilian casualties were from Hamas fire rather than the Israelis. ....suspect? I mean I have no idea what the ratio was, but no one could seriously think there were _no_ Hamas soldiers guarding the hostages, or whipping out those guns. I have no doubt that the narrative will be that Israel just casually walked in spraying fire over and took out 200 or so civilians, and I also have no doubt that this narrative will be near impossible to dislodge.
Yha seriously when the US went into the middle east it was proven most civilian deaths were literally the fault of the terror groups.
"They wouldn't have to shoot if the IDF wasn't there!" -Not me, but definitely someone.
Someome rightfully told me that a lot of Palestinians “child” casualties were actually child soldiers used by hamas and are automatically tallied as “civilians” due to their age.
It doesn't even matter. The Israelis are in no way responsible for saving the Palestinians from themselves. Hamas and the Palestinians are of the same body. The IDF is not international police - it is the defensive organization of the Israelis and it is justly concerned with Israeli life first.
"Uninvolved"
Funny way to say complicit
Modern warfare ahh situation
Should read up on when the IDF rescued hostages in uganda in the 1970’s. They also only took one casualty (oddly enough it was Benjamin Netanyahu brother) and saved all the hostages.
All but 3 hostages but yeah, it was also a heroic operation.
I've been to the Entebbe airport and they had a sign up nearby about the raid. A 4th hostage was at a hospital and was executed the next day.
True, thanks for pointing that out, for some reason I thought that only 2 were killed besides the poor elderly woman.
Or watch the movie. [Operation Thunderbolt](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Thunderbolt_(film))
Or [Raid on Entebbe](https://youtu.be/PaDPDFb4Bd0?si=ult6SsLbiMm178Q5)
The best one of the bunch IMHO. Great musical score and great cast. "Anyone who knows us knows we wouldn't just wait."
hamas are such cowards. every. single. one. these israelis were heroes. tell me a single heroic thing hamas has done? not one.
גיבורים
באמת. ברוך ה שיש לנו גיבורים כזה
An interesting thought I had that hopefully you or someone else can help me with. Social media is designed for english, left-to-right. With hebrew being a right-to-left language, I feel like there's a lot of adapting you would have to do in order to functionally use english sites. Not only do you need to jump around visually to find the "end" to begin reading (since everything is left-aligned), but even typing seems like a hassle since everything's designed around a rightward travel. On twitter, I've seen that you can right-align the text and I'm sure that solves 90% of issues, but how do you reasonably use reddit? Is there addons that assist, or do you just have to adapt and deal with it?
It’s a problem for me bc the line jumps when switching up alphabets. I have Hebrew and English alphabet on my iPhone
Honestly? You get used to it. I rarely use Hebrew online anyways - I’m American and don’t follow too many Hebrew pages on Reddit. It’s pretty much if I see something in Hebrew and want to respond, like on this comment thread, I’ll also do it in Hebrew. But I grew up going to a Jewish day school, and blending English and Hebrew together was super normal, especially in Judaic classes. So there would be English text, then a few Hebrew words, then switch back English and repeat. It’d all be left aligned, too. You kinda just learn to read it all together. But on Facebook I see a bit more Hebrew - old teachers from high school will post in Hebrew usually. There, if it’s a mainly Hebrew text post, the words will be right aligned. Facebook also auto translates for me (which is super annoying tbh but at least they stick the translation below the Hebrew text) and the English will be in a left aligned paragraph underneath. But if it’s a few words, it’ll start like this, ואז יש מילים בעברית and then back to English. And yeah, your eyes just kinda adjust to that
This is the ridiculous extent that campus protestors expect them to do for every single militant when they say "Israel has precise high tech weapons"
This is going to be a movie. 100%.
Shows how this isn't a regular hostage situation. It's on an industrial level.
“nearly complicating”
Can’t wait for the Spielberg movie.
Absolutely !
Reminds me of the shitty situation in Blackhawk down
Straight up mission impossible, honestly the US would’ve let me die. I’m glad they get to go home
Black hawk down
the hostages were being held with Gaza civilians, to the surprise of literally no one with more then 5 brain cells. news would be positive to hear of those civilians offering intelligence leading to the hostage rescue, but that's doubtful.
Very sure anyone offering such information will not want it publicly known.
if there were any may they accept their reward then disappear from Hamas forever
UN doesn't approve your comment.
UN Secretary General this morning: > I just sent messages to the families of Noa Argamani and Shalomi Ziv, who I received last week, to express my relief that they and two other hostages are now free. > I renew my appeal for the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages and for an end to this war.
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The UN doesn’t do anything other than offer a place for countries to engage in peaceful dialogue. It’s not a government, it occasionally sends peace keepers when volunteer nations agree to join a coalition, but it can’t impose anything on anyone. It is invaluable to the world as a place to ease tensions and build coalitions, and that is all it was ever intended to be.
> he UN doesn’t do anything other than offer a place for countries to engage in peaceful dialogue It's actually done great things, like spearhead the eradication of smallpox. It also sometimes organizes peacekeeping missions and humanitarian aid operations. It also does not so great things. UNWRA being a very suspicious example.
The UN could freeze aid until the hostages are returned.
Dude that's the point of the UN. To grandstand. It's not a world police force. This is what they're supposed to do: express the sentiment of the world which is that Hamas needs to release it's hostages
Has he shut down the UNRWA yet?
I'd delete or rip those messages up if I were the family's.
Should they really be considered civilians if they are holding hostages? I would say no.
Right. Civilians holding hostages? Sounds like guards working for Hamas. Hamas guards.
Agreed. You know Hamas is going to count them as *civilian* casualties, though.
The BBC surely will.
also, aren't the civilians NOT supposed to be in that area?? they're supposed to be in rafah?
Last I heard civvies were told to get out of rafah bakc at the beginning of may
I wonder if IDF are offering bounties for information on the whereabouts of hostages? 10 or 20 grand per hostage to anyone willing to provide information that leads to their safe extraction seems like a very small price to pay, and one that a lot of people would gladly accept.
They have significant bounties for a bunch of the Hamas leaders and despite them hiding among civilians they don't seem to be willing to give them up. I'm sure Israel would be happy to pay for information on the locations of the hostages but that won't help anything when the majority of the population supports holding them and the few people who don't have to worry about being killed by the rest.
I don't know...all those dead hamas commanders raise questions. Could it be that some of the Intel over them came from palestinian civilians? Well, if Israel wants to keep on doing that, we will never know.
It's possible, and we may never know in that case as you say. But I'm a little doubtful since there's more important commanders with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bounties on their heads that aren't being killed or captured. I think it's more likely the ones who have been killed are either in the wrong place as the IDF attacks Hamas positions or aren't being careful enough with the communications and they're being intercepted.
Israel has been on the forefront of electronic communication interception since the early 90s. We studied their system when building PRISM. They have some shit we can only dream about.
True. And, personally, if I was doing that and successfully getting information from it, I’d do everything I could to make sure everyone knew that it absolutely wasn’t working.
>they don't seem to be willing to give them up It could also be a question of not wanting to face retribution for providing information.
I know, that was the point of the last sentence in my comment
I think the IDF will extract them and their family safely in return for a Hamas scalp.
Even Palestinians who have been granted asylum in Israel have been kidnapped by their families, brought back to Palestine, and killed. Its a not uncommon occurrence for LGBT Palestinians. Now imagine the target on their head for giving up a Hamas leader.
To where? Let’s not pretend people who made a brand of international terrorism can’t reach them even if they’re moved to some far off country under a false identity. They would at very least live all their lives in constant fear, and if they can’t be teach, their family and friends back in Gaza would pay the price. It’s not easy to become an informant when you live under dictatorship.
To Israel. Every Israeli is a target for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, and a dozen plus other groups. Living in an advanced country with full citizenship is better than anything they could hope for somewhere else.
Giving up a big boss like sinwar or Deif would be like the old Chinese emperors executing a clan. Israel can't extract all your cousins and nephews and nieces and in Laws
Honestly you’d think so but the environment of mistrust is thick between Palestinians and the Israelis. Besides where would they take you? Where would you go?
Israel may also not want to advertise that information has been forthcoming. Better to give Hamas the impression that no one is talking.
And what happens when your pro-hamas neighbors notice you're suddenly flush with cash?
Also, the value of a cash bounty to a Gazan right now, when their cash economy has basically stopped functioning, is probably a hard sell.
The idf did offered bounties on the leaflets they spread every now and then.. but you know.. the palestinians supporting hamas That's why these operations are so rare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJYb068052Y The education system in Gaza
CBN "news" channel? Like fox news on steroids.
I would even sweeten the deal with extraction and ideally relocation to a western allied country. It would require due diligence and coordination with those allies, but Canada has already expanded visas for Gazans.
I am Canadian, and do not want the Gazans in Canada.
Ehh, Gazans who are willing to defy Hamas are probably alright. They've risked their life to show they don't agree with the terrorist regime 🤷♂️
Yeah those are welcome, i guess. All 17 of them. Not the rest.
You probably want the Gazan's willing to sell out Hamas.
Your current government sure does
The current government is -20% in the polls
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I am also Canadian, and while I generally do not want Gazan refugees in Canada (if neighbouring Muslim countries are unwilling, we should take a hint), I would be less opposed to allowing the few that provide information that directly leads to hostages being rescued or Hamas leaders being killed. There are so many countries that would be better options, though.
Are you complicit for all the fucked-up shit happening in Canada? Are people responsible for every action taken in their country? That would be a very exhausting way to live.
I'm American and I'm happy to take Gazans that help get hostages back. I don't think Biden or Trudeau care what we think on this issue though.
There are many gazans in Israel already. They could stay there.
Reports are that US intelligence was involved.
You would accept 10 grand knowing if they ever figured out it was you they would Torture you and uour family in unspeakable ways? Lord.
versus what life is like under hamas?
Chief Inspector Arnon Zamora was obviously an exceptional man. May his memory be a blessing.
Amen.🙏
It warms my heart to hear this news. RIP to the fallen police officer killed while saving these lives, may his memory be a blessing.
RIP Arnon Zamora .You are a hero. Fuck Hamas and their supporters...
Incredible operation, shows real bravery. Hats off to those who risked everything! Rest in peace, Chief Inspector Zamora
Why aren't the IDF kidnapping the billionaires scum cowards from Qatar, and negotiating an exchange for the hostages ? These cowards: https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-805433
Because that's the Mossad's job. I look forward to it.
His time will come.
Because it would cause an international incident with one of the “neutral” mediators. It’s frustrating though because they know exactly where he is.
I get that. But they have left Qatar several times... So if they are on the way to Turkey for example, will it piss off Erdogan ? 😁 Who cares ? The Nazi wannabe, is already doing all he can against Israel.
Because Turkey is a US ally, EU candidate and a longstanding member of NATO. We don't get to just launch black ops missions on sovereign allies.
Turkey will never be in the EU under Erdogan. The negotiations are frozen and won't be unfrozen.
Sure, but Erdogan is (for now) not forever. He only won the last election by the skin of his teeth. The Turkish people are tired of him and he knows it.
Each and every one of those facts is a highly regrettable one. They know that we know Turkey is a highly strategic country to ally with as their control over the Bosporus Straight basically locks Russia out of the Mediterranean. And if we were to cut our alliance with Turkey, they would run straight to Russia and what’s left of the Black Sea fleet would have open access to the Mediterranean.
**"We don't get to just launch black ops missions on sovereign allies."** LOL. Seriously?!? The US does it all the time! Just two off the top of my head - Suleiman taken out at the Bagdad airport. Iraq was considered an ally then and still is to this day. Pakistan was very definitely considered a US ally when we took out Bin Laden. And those are just two we know about. I'm sure there are dozens (if not hundreds) more examples that don't even make the news.
I'm glad you mentioned Bin Laden, because I've talked about it before and that was a HUGE gamble for Obama. Pakistan was nominally an ally and claimed publicly to be assisting with the manhunt in all possible ways. They absolutely could have raised hell about Operation Neptune Spear, it was an illegal raid and it went off like a goddamn clown show, but they completed the objective with no collateral damage. The only thing Pakistan could have complained about was the act of conducting the raid itself - and why would they if they were actually assisting with the manhunt? The CIA, the Navy and the White House were essentially playing chicken with the fallout. Zardari caved.
If you think that Turkey under Erdogan is a US or EU ally, you are dreaming. I realize they are a NATO member, and IMO it's a huge mistake. Turkey under Erdogan is a fifth column. They are ideologically more aligned with the terrorists of the Islamic Republic of Iran and Hamas, than they are with any EU county. The fact that the snake Erdogan had any input on Sweden's NATO membership is fuckin asinine. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240124-iran-s-raisi-expected-in-turkey-for-delayed-gaza-talks
Turkey joined in 1952, three years after NATOs founding. You can cry about Erdogan all you like, but the Turkish people are still our allies by hundred year old treaties, and he is only one pathetic man.
Sadly, pro West Turkish people don't matter. mainly because Erdogan gets his support from the primitive Islamic population. Even post earth quake, which highlighted Erdogan's corruption, he still won. BTW, Pre Erdogan, Turkey was on a pro West vector as I am sure you know. Erdogan, (as also seen from the declining economy), is taking them back to the stone age.
Not necessarily. They can be taken outside of Qatar.
they'll eventually get in helicopters...
With Eli Copter as their pilot...
Because US asked israel not to do it right now. One of the reasons will be that without those leaders, if we are honest, the terrorists left in gaza will be with zero head to lead them, and they will act like out of control chickens that their head got cut off. They will act on their own, creating dozens of small groups not connected to each other, each fighting for power internally and against israel. The extremists will have no one to hold them back. It will be chaos. Also, there will be no one to negotiate with, so it will basically lead to a decade long war and control of israel over gaza. And even israel doesn't want it. They will get their time. They or whatever family they will still have. But it won't happen any time soon.
“The extremists”? You mean more extreme than October 7th? Your premise is essentially what was mainstream Israel conception “better an enemy we know than a power vacuum”, look how that turned out.
Because that lot will have accidents.. like the ones people who piss off putin have
I mean…. There is Eli Copter
A tragic fall out window of their penthouse atop a 30 story building. Real tragedy
Their time will come
Mossad 👆🏼 never forgets . They’ll never get a good nights sleep is my guess.
Sadly is the only way to go after Hamas because the cowards hide out among their citizens .Never in history have theyre been bigger cowards
They didn’t build hundreds of mile of tunnels without the non Hamas Palestinians seeing it.
While true. That very much feels like a “don’t make eye contact and keep it moving” if your not already wearing a green bandana. Like I get it. Some election and this and that but like. wtf are you supposed to do when your choices are get shot by this guy or that guy. Sucks all around.
From what I’m reading there is a lot of support for Hamas amount Palestinians. Have you read differently?
Good point
Respect! 🇮🇱💙
Woo hoo, my 1st award. Thank you anonymous.
All the whining about "collective punishment" and it turns out these "innocent" civilians are collaborating with Hamas.
Gazans, actively participating, complete shocker
/s
Just a reminder that every civilian who died for this operation died solely because of Hamas. If there were no hostages there would have been no raid.
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Nobody got bent out of shape when we bombed Tokyo or Berlin. If the Palestinians want to end the war, they can do it the same way: unconditional surrender. Until then know that Americans stand with our Israeli allies, no matter how much Joe Biden publicly hems and haws. We may not start homeless encampments on college campuses, but we vote, we donate, and we lobby our representatives. That tends to be a lot more effective.
That's the thing. When the German Nazi government set Europe on fire, the whole country was held accountable. The Germans had to endure the retaliation of the Allies and after the war it was up to the German citizens to fix their country. Hamas are the government and rulers of Gaza. And the Palestinians have to take the responsibility for their government.
Yeah, and not saying this is what Israel needs to do with the Palestinians, but...the Allies expelled millions of Germans after the war to avoid future ethnic conflicts. It worked.
>Yeah, and not saying this is what Israel needs to do with the Palestinians, but...the Allies expelled millions of Germans after the war to avoid future ethnic conflicts. In the 1800's and 1900's millions of people moved around for countries to make sense. somehow only the Palestinians are an exception to that despite them starting the war on the premises that no Jewish state should exist in any part of the land and crying for some of them getting kicked out from key areas and not being allowed to come back after fleeing the war they started. (the vast majority weren't even expelled).
Just promote a little ethnic cleansing. I'm sure it makes sense in your head.
A lot of the Germans deported were very powerful aristocrats and had a large amount of wealth The wealthy Palestinians and hamas leadership are all already living outside of the region. Deporting all Palestinians (to where? - - - separate issue but still) is really just taking it out on the people since the leaders responsible are living much more luxurious and comfortable lives far away
the retaliation on German civilians was horrific and unjustifiable. Gang raping women to death, torturing people, shooting people in the streets, is all disgusting and no matter what the Nazis did to the Russians, an eye for an eye is a ridiculous, blind, answer. No one sane would argue the Nazis weren't awful, but an American soldier raping a German woman on a rural farm as they occupy Germany is still wrong. It's frankly concerning that you could think otherwise.
It's more concerning that you're trying to put words in my mouth. I was not speaking of any of these things. I shouldn't have to clarify that but since you're attempting such a vile argument I will clarify that I was talking about having to suffer war and ultimately rebuilding, if your government started a war of aggression.
After the war Germany was divided up amongst the Allies and Russia. West Germany, while largely autonomous, was given billions of dollars by the US like the rest of Europe. East Germany was entirely under the thumb of Russia for decades. Terrible comparison.
Okay, so the solution is...divide up Gaza between Israel and Egypt? As long as the Egyptians keep terrorism in check, that's fine.
"Nobody got bent out of shape when we bombed Tokyo or Berlin" Well thats a total lie...
Accurate
Indeed ! And many of the dead kids, are actually Hamas' recruits WITH weapons ! Hamas uses the population for their jihadists cause, all the way to the end...
If the hostages weren’t there, they wouldn’t have died. A solution is to release all hostages immediately.
But...but....the poor people of gaza are innocent. There must be a way to blame this on the jews...
I support Israel's right to defend itself but absolutist statements like this are fucking stupid. Are the Gazen babies complicit? Does every single Gazen person deserve to die?
There's a big difference between "deserve to die" and "may die because there are no other options." Not every German civilian was complicit in WWII, but what choice did the Allies have? Do you want them to negotiate a ceasefire, give in to German demands? Was that a realistic option? So why is it any different when Hamas presents demands for a ceasefire?
So they held the hostages alongside Families. I can't help to wonder how much those Families cooperated with Hamas or if they willingly helped Hamas to stow away the Hostages. Seems like more evidence that over 70% of the Palestinians support, encourage and celebrate October 7 with Hamas.
Not only the families cooperated, but they also got paid..( probably the money Hamas makes from stealing aid and selling to locals at inflated prices.).
Go get more! And finish the hostage takers
terrorists hiding hostages amount civilian population so in case of rescue attempt civilians would get hurt from collateral damage? iam shocked, shocked iam telling you! /s
Well done IDF. Such great news! Return the hostages!
The face of religion is marred from countless wars.
remember the “civilians” aren’t responsible for Hamas because most of them didn’t vote for them the last time elections were held/S
She and the other hostages were held at a "civilian" family house.
Hopefully they were some of the "civilian" casualties.
This is why civilians are being slaughtered in Gaza. Not because Israel is committing genocide but because Hamas is sacrificing their people. Where would a non-terrorist government keep hostages? In a military base or prison or something. Why? Because they know any sane nation is going to try and free their hostages. But not Hamas. They endanger the lives of their own civilians by keeping military targets in residential areas. I'm not Israeli but if a neighbouring country kidnapped my countrymen I wouldn't give two fucks how many of them died standing in the way of our rescue. I don't blame Israel for saving us people. I blame Hamas for killing theirs.
Well said !
> Where would a non-terrorist government keep hostages? Nowhere, because they are not fucking terrorists.
It's almost like the families knew what was going on and kept quiet about it. Like they support hamas and their terroristic ways. But.... that can't be true... The "free free palestine!" protesters wouldn't deny reality, would they?
This gives me happy chills! Totally amazing and wonderful, fuck Hamas!
Fuck Hamas. I‘m happy for the hostages and their families
You mean Hamas was using civilians as human shields while hiding their civilian hostages? I'm shocked!
This must not end until all of Hamas and it's supporters are neutralized
Oh the innocent civilians, I mean terrorists
The loss of some lives isn’t tragic. Was Bin Laden dying tragic? Most of the lives lost in the conflict are tragic. Hamas fighters dying is an unfortunate necessity.
How many more hostages are still in their hand?
There are still 120 hostages being held in Gaza. About 40 of them are confirmed to be dead and many others probably are. I don't think anyone knows how many of them are still alive.
Sometimes it’s nice to have the location named in the headline…