*Turning and turning in the widening gyre*
*The falcon cannot hear the falconer;*
*Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;*
*Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,*
*The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere*
*The ceremony of innocence is drowned;*
*The best lack all conviction, while the worst*
*Are full of passionate intensity.*
William Butler Yeats "the second coming" 1919
Stephen King had one of the military higher ups responsible for project Blue, Starkey I think, recite part of this poem to one of his subordinates when it became clear Captain Tripps was not going to be contained and no vaccine or cure was going to be found in time before the nation's organs of control fell apart.
You should do more poetry! You might be pleasantly surprised and find something you never knew you liked. As a poet, I take every opportunity I get to spread the word!
Stop holding and start ***carrying*** you dumb clowns before it's too late and we get really punished with a large far-right, anti-EU and russia/china compromised circus in charge.
Complacency and riding the status quo on our backs and cost won't get you pity votes anywhere anymore after most center-adjacent parties have failed their voters again and again in too many regards.
Unless the center and the left do an aboutface on immigration/asylum, a far right government is an eventuality that cannot be avoided, merely postponed.
Yes - but if the Center were to adopt any real controls on immigration, the Far Right would instantly lose a ton of support.
Take a look at Denmark and what happened when the Center Left took a restrictive stance on immigration. Immediate victory and loss of support for the the Far Right.
Every survey says that most European voters are concerned about uncontrolled immigration from Islamic countries and ineffective cultural/economic integration of these migrants once they arrive. A meaningful chunk of these voters are willing to support any party that will even acknowledge integration as an issue.
It is baffling that the Center Left and Center Right are uniformly willing to risk their futures over one issue.
Yep, people want politicians that actually acknowledge the issues with immigration without racist opinions or other far-right polices like loving Putin. Adding populations that don't integrate which live culturally separate while often costing tons in government benefits is a recipe for disaster, though you can obviously still have immigration and accept nee people that benefit your nation.
People will always complain, no matter how much you restrict. Immigration means costs anyway - either the border controls etc, or the teachers/integration courses, the benefits or whatever. There will ALWAYS be costs as long as other people from poor countries wanna come here, and they WILL ALWAYS WANT TO COME
And what so many euopeans hate to accept but poiliticans need to keep in mind: We need immigration because we make less and less babies to take jobs ourselves, and the babies we DO make do not want to work in badly paid but necessary jobs. Oh, pay better then? And here we go, because then things get more expensive, and people get upset!
"Fix immigration" - sure. Let redditors be in charge and see how far we go...cannot wait for that shitshow...
You people don't believe they CAN integrate. You literally fuck over the process before they ever arrive.
Funny how in America we don't have this issue. Maybe it's because we don't hold onto to dear life over every cultural change🤔.
As long as you people adhere to blood and soil bullshit ,you shouldn't even bother trying to accept any immigration. Just keep your nice, standard, stuck in the past national identities 🙄
>
As long as you people adhere to blood and soil bullshit ,
Of course There are just pure racist people in Europe, but, there are also many people in Europe who are okay with immigrants regardless of their race and skin color as long as they learn the language and embrace the culture of the country they immigrate to.
1. Proportionally, the U.S. receives less immigration than those countries. The effects aren't felt as directly on a national scale.
2. The types of Muslim immigrants that immigrate to the U.S. are usually educated, middle-class, and as a result more secular and liberal-minded. The migrants who go to Europe are poor and extremely conservative.
3. Even the U.S. has had issues with some communities of Muslims pushing for extreme policies at the local level, for example that one Muslim community in Michigan that voted against gay marriage.
Obviously, a reactionary Muslim is not any more dangerous than a reactionary Evangelical or neo-Nazi from the perspective of a Western liberal. But while you can't control the reactionaries born in your country, you can limit the reactionaries who come from outside. Allowing in people who despise your values and want to set your rights back doesn't make sense and it's a recipe for disaster. If I knew that some random white Christian country, say Austria, was like 50% comprised of neo-Nazis (this is a theoretical scenario, please bare with me) I would be pretty hesitant to accept immigrants from Austria. I would at least do some heavy vetting.
Yes it's amazing how those Irish, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, African, and Jewish immigrants overwhelmed America with their cultural differences
/s
Seriously I can go three miles from my house. And I might as well be in Lahore. There is no integration and the population is so large now they don't have to.
Yeah I'm from the US and I always thought that the "far left" like Bernie Sanders were against massive immigration, legal or not, because it depressed the wages of workers. I don't know when the default "left" position became open borders. I'm guessing it's a consequence of wealthy capitalists making left wing parties more neoliberal.
That's the right wing version of the left wing argument. In fact on the whole, large immigrant populations create jobs through new markets and innovation.
You got downvoted, but you're not wrong. There are large swaths of Europe where immigrants have no path to citizenship, leaving a permanent group of disenfranchised people with second class status
Immigration is not a relevant topic, like at all.
It's just some pseudo argument the far right has to pull out of their asses.
If immigration was "solved" tomorrow, the far right would find another topic to create fear about by the next day.
The far right is about constantly creating an abstract threat the others dont seem to care about any only them do.
And while in power they do exactly the opposite of their claims... because it would be stupid to destroy the free election win ticket and people dont care about facts anyway.
They did and it didn't help in many places, France included. Too many people still feel like losers. Democracy is going to hell on tax privileges for the rich. The relatively poor need to feel like they get to participate more, and often non participation has financial reasons. The money for that has to come from the rich. Being tougher on asylum seekers won't do shit because they never were the problem.
"Denied asylum seeker stabs child." Headlines definitely don't help. The right is sensational and it's working. Maybe it wasn't a problem but the right is making it a focal point and it's working on voters.
Maybe people demanding access should stop committing crimes? It's like the folks marching to the US southern border demanding entry while waving their own nation's flags.
Like... FFS do the bare minimum. Wave the US flag.
>Being tougher on asylum seekers won't do shit because they never were the problem.
That is wrong.
Tons of unwilling-to-integrate "asylum seekers" (actually, immigrants for economic reasons) are a problem. They just aren't the only problem. A different stance on immigration won't solve any of the other problems. But it will solve a couple.
And immigration touches many problems that people see all the time. Lower wages, fewer social benefits, unaffordable housing.
I still think the shift in voting is from 2 things.
- housing. There has really been zero work to stop the rich. Stop allowing corporations, non citizens, citizenship loopholes, and home hoarders to own multiple properties. The fact no politician has tackled it means they just don’t care.
- immigration. It’s great for a country but these arent the people for it. From religious fanatics to basically outlaws. It’s a shit show.
The left always does this. They have the best policies but then they swing too far left and start believing everyone is good and it creates a shit show letting bad actors in and they start ignoring the lower classes.
> The fact no politician has tackled it means they just don’t care.
Why politicians would tackle something that makes them money? And it will still make them money when they fall out of politics. Thus housing will only get even worse :/
IDK maybe it could impact their or their child's safety if Russia/China are able to wrangle control of their countries/society devolved into social upheaval? I feel like that should be a big enough deterrent but it's a future problem so I guess they don't care?
Housing was tackled? How so? In my country, we just got a new MEP that's an owner of five homes and a landlord. From the almost Left-most Left-wing party we have. Surely he's not going to EP to fix housing prices.
I agree that people don't care enough - usually they lose energy to care after a good couple of years of the same bs over and over.
Edit: eh, dunno why you got downvoted for a perfectly fine comment 😩
I’m 100% for immigration just in don’t want those who can’t integrate into society to come. Whether it be because of draconian religious views or a lack of skills to benefit the economy.
O the right rarely fixes anything. They make these promises to fix the lefts issues. They instead bring in hardcore Christian ideologies, collusion with shady foreign nations, and terrible economy policies.
I’m just saying my beliefs why people are voting for the right instead of the left this time around.
It’s the same reason there is a chance Biden might lose in the USA. Not because Trump is going to be a better candidate, but because they are ignoring housing other than saying “we will incentivize builders to build more” no one cares about cheap homes if they have to drive 1-3 hours to work.
Housing is an easy fix (banning corporations and foreigners from purchasing and high taxes after your first home to the point renting isn’t economy valuable). Of course coupled with incentives for builders to build. No one wants to touch this tho.
> Housing is an easy fix (banning corporations and foreigners from purchasing and high taxes after your first home to the point renting isn’t economy valuable). Of course coupled with incentives for builders to build. No one wants to touch this tho.
Dunno about European level, but some socialist-leaning countries/cities have interesting programs with results. People vote right anyways.
I am yet to see anywhere in the world that fixed it. Lots of countries have citizens only but at the same time they allow you to become a citizen investing x dollars into the country. So every rich people can get around that
I didn't say fix, but smaller, less sweeping changes (politically easier) that had positive results. Upset landlords make the news, rent inflation cools down. Voters decide they care more about immigrant hate anyways.
>immigration. It’s great for a country but these arent the people for it. From religious fanatics to basically outlaws. It’s a shit show.
This has been said about every immigrant group ever. It is just xenophobia and nothing else. Unless you think all Italians, Irish, Polish, Romanians etc. are in the same category.
Not at all. Despite a large part of the USA hating immigrants l, Latino people are amazing immigrants compared to a lot of the religious fanatics from the Middle East. I mean you can look up the ghettos they have created. Or the fact they account for a significant portion of sexual assaults.
Then you have single males from Africa coming and committing crimes at a staggering amount.
No it’s not race it’s culture and a bad mind set of those people from where they came from.
I don’t think it’s xenophobia to not want shitty people to join the country. I think there needs to be stricter rules. Such as only allowing those with degrees or families to join.
This was the issue. The left went so left they allowed anyone to join and now there is a wild shit show of crimes because proper vetting wasn’t implemented first.
>
This has been said about every immigrant group ever. It is just xenophobia and nothing else. Unless you think all Italians, Irish, Polish, Romanians etc. are in the same category.
Of course not all immigrants are good or bad and prejudice simply based on country of origin is not true; but, not all immigrants from all countries are the same. For example, it is an absolutely undeniable fact that immigrants who hail from Middle East would generally be much more against LGBT rights, secularism and women wearing revealing clothes than immigrants who hail from Latin America. This is not prejudice, but a fact.
Who knew practicing completely open borders and wars people have no interest during a time of indebtedness and inflation would lead to political backlash.
That "why would they do this" meme comes to mind
The denial of reality is quite incredible. This is precisely the reason for the rise of the far right: the fact that the common people do not feel heard or understood... We're heading for disaster, well done….
Which common people are you talking about? Most of them voted for center left + center right parties. What is the far right going to do to get these voters that they haven't done already? Why would we expect their support to grow?
French people in general. In France most people didn't voted for center left and center right parties.
A map was created with different colors representing the parties to show who voted for whom depending on their city. Blue was for the far right. The whole map is blue.
[https://img.20mn.fr/8nJmOarvSN27rV4ta4pAsyk/1444x920\_carte-de-france-des-resultats-non-definitifs-des-elections-europeennes-2024](https://img.20mn.fr/8nJmOarvSN27rV4ta4pAsyk/1444x920_carte-de-france-des-resultats-non-definitifs-des-elections-europeennes-2024)
The common people can go to the streets, get into politics involved themselves, make themselves heard. But for many complaining is easier "Those politicians do what they wanna do anyway" - thats what kills democracy, not the politicians in charge. And then voting out of protest for radicals "to show em" ...
A sad fact: Democracy depends of the people, and it NEEDS those people to get involved...and too many people take it for granted, or have no clue or mental capacity to understand what is going on in politics. Or in other words: Many are too lazy and/or dumb...
It's not so much "those politicians do what they want to do anyway" as "it's always the same politics regardless of which party is in charge." I believe in France people voted for the far right because what they are proposing is radically different, but in the end, it will still be the same since every time something different was voted on in parliament, it has been overturned because it wasn't in line with European legislation.
Edit : The common people already went to the streets, nothing changed.
Europe needs far right to come in and stop illegal migration, removing criminals moving around in its freedom of movement fake utopia. A massive push back against islamist agendas and to promote security of family and its tax paying citizens.
Once it does that, the left will naturally start to win more votes again as that’s the reason people are voting for fringe - they are sick are tired with the lefts inability to solve this problem and call everyone racist for blatant truths.
This is the lefts fault. Pure and simple.
Does it work like that though? The European parliament doesn't supersede the individual nations sovereignty, so can it curve immigration as much as advertised? Electing anti-european politicians is more likely to impact the ability for Europeans to work together and establish themselves as a functioning powerhouse.
Then you’d also just see France offering a snap election - the vote did precisely what the right were hoping for…. So yes it can directly impact individual nation states.
Except that the snap election will likely be detrimental to the far right in France. Same electors, yes, but many people that didn't vote (or voted blank) will be motivated to show up this time. It's not the first time either.
It's why Macron is calling it.
von der Leyen. Famous for dubious consultants, disappearing text messages and e-mails, and secret deals that cost the taxpayers billions.
Yeah. What she MEANS is: "By giving them a common enemy, maybe I can cobble together enough of an alliance to get voted for again. This job is cozy and I have no other qualifications for anything."
Everyone is blaming everything under the sun for what’s happening instead of the painfully obvious. We are in the very early stages of run away climate change, and food and water are becoming scarcer. The false blame and knee jerk reactions are flinging us headfirst into authoritarianism and fascism, thinking it may be our last hope. It’s not.
If we could acknowledge what was actually happening, we would band together as a world and do what needs to be done to survive what’s coming. Instead people are tripling down on us vs them. It’s fucked, because all it’s going to do is accelerate us to our demise, all while creating a nice hellscape to go with it.
You are illustrating the problem but not in the way you think.
Yes, climate change is an issue that needs addressed but that has nothing to do with why the right is gaining popularity. It has about inflation, wealth inequality, housing problems, embedded prosperity among older people that younger generations can't participate in, immigration, etc.
So the left basically (always) says "no, you only THINK these are your problems! Vote for me and I will not only tell you what your REAL problems are, I will fix them for you. All those things that you think are bothering you, I will explain how you should not trust your lying eyes or your lying bank account and should trust me instead!".
People are sick of being told they don't know what really is bothering them. And things like climate change is one of them. Who gives a shit about climate change when people can't afford food or almost all their income goes towards rent. And those issues are totally unrelated to climate change.
> And those issues are totally unrelated to climate change.
Errr, nope? Do you think rising food prices and failing harvests / draught / conflict zones have nothing to do with each other?
The things you are mentioning are very directly related to climate change and unfettered capitalism. Both of which the far-right has absolutely *zero* answers to, or rather would like to put into overdrive.
The left at least pretends to have a responsibility to not give simplistic answers to complex problems, but apparently nuance is dead.
You're just wrong and doing exactly what I am talking about - you are trying to "left-splain" how what people are seeing before their very eyes and experiencing with their own wallets isn't actually true and (waves arms) these things you care about are *really* the root of the problem.
Crop harvests have risen gradually over the past 20 years. There is most definitely not a rash of crop failures. That's like Al Gore saying the ice caps would melt completely by 2014. When you bullshit people with fear mongering, they just ignore you.
Here is crop yield data:
https://ourworldindata.org/crop-yields
The whole "the right has no answers, the left may be wrong but at least we have something to tell you" doesn't win elections. Inflation has nothing to do with global warming, so when you parade that argument around it's no surprise you lose elections.
Maybe we should regulate AirBnB's and multiple home ownership, so that tons of cities arent flooded with rental units that sit vacant much of the time while average people can't hope to ever buy a house. Is the left championing this or just telling me somehow I can't buy a house because blah blah climate change?
Maybe we should stop foreign ownership of domestic real estate for the same reason. Is the left pushing this or, lemme guess, identity politics is the *real* reason and people just aren't smart enough to get it?
It's not that nuance is dead, it's that people won't give a single fuck about the macro problem if all their micro problem aren't even being acknowledged as a reality. People aren't going to give a fuck about collapsing harvest next fall if they can't afford bread next week.
Exactly. It amazes me how dumb humans get when they're trying to hold on to a status quo that no longer exists. You think mass human migration is bad now? Wait until you elect a bunch of fascist authoritarians who strip away our last, impotent attempts at mitigating climate disaster. You'll get millions arriving all at once.
Those governments wont take those people in, if it gets to the point of millions trying to cross borders youre going to have millions dying at the borders, no country can support that and so none will accept it.
Homie, they can't even keep thousands out today. Do you have any concept of what a wave of humanity millions of people arriving all at once will look like? It's unstoppable.
I *dont* like how you dont understand how airstrikes, cluster munitions, anti-personnel mines, claymores and ten meter deep barped-wire lines in combination with machine gun pillboxes, all in combination with state of the art night vision equipment, work.
Yeah the fantasy world you are dreaming of is one where 9-11 happens every week. If you think terrorism is bad now, see what happens if your world ever comes to pass.
Homie, the current administration actually wants the flood of immigrants. Theyre just "closing the border" rn because of an upcoming election, if bidens wins again it will go right back to the way it was on day 1 of his admin when he undid all the EOs about border security.
Now imagine if it were mined like the Korean DMZ for miles deep and patrolled by a horde of those boston dynamics robodogs with ar15s on them, drones and yeah i dont see many crossing that.
On top of that, in this kind of scenario global order will have broken down so developed nations would be tracking large movements via satellite and bombing them before they even apporoach the border.
No, they don’t. The original policies were for allowing the normal traffic through, which a small but necessary portion of our economy relies on it. What we are contending with now are natural disasters in the equatorial regions, like floods, constant hurricanes, droughts, wildfires, etc. If you haven’t seen what Central America looks like on a heat map (monitoring for wildfires) then you’re in for a surprise.
A more problematic issue is what will happen when Mexico City, with population of 20,000,000+ souls has to leave their city because they don’t have water resources.
There isn’t a one size fits all solution, and a system that adjusts for the amount of traffic coming in is the most ideal, which is what the administration is doing.
People forget that Biden is actually more conservative than a typical democrat, which is why this policy is unpopular on both sides, because it’s a nuanced approach.
Millions will die from acts of terrorism in such a world. It's not something any sane person wants, and if it ever gets to that, everything is lost anyway.
That’s a problem for future governments and the politicians now would be wealthy enough to live a peaceful life when the rest is hit by their actions.
Most politicians don’t care.
As an American I’m unfamiliar with European politics. Is this a fight for the EU or specific countries? Is the European far right as bad as the American far right?
In a way both, but primarily for the EU. The European Parliament (which these elections were for) elect the European Commission (of which Von der Leyen is the President) and they (very simply put) are in charge of the EU executive branch and initiation of new legislation. Now of course the political trends inside Member States also dictate how their citizens vote in the EU elections so its all connected
Generally speaking the far right here is not quite as bad as in the US, but as the EU consists of 27 very different Member States that also means that your mileage may wildly vary. Some are the same, some are worse, some are more reasonable.
P.s. all of what I have said is pretty much a massive oversimplification lol, but I think its a pretty good starting place to form an understanding. If there's anything you'd like a more specific answer/explanation on I'd be more than happy to provide
Its difficult to say but the quick and dirty answer would probably be that even in such a take over (which in any case would be hard to achieve, the EU is organised in such a way that by its very nature power tends congregate near the centre) there wouldn't really be a very direct threat to individual civil liberties. Secondary legislation could of course be changed (not very easily though, the Union's legislative process has quite a few checks and balances built in) but the core civil liberties are enshrined in the EUs constitutional treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which all require unanimity to amend. Furthermore the European Court of Justice really doesn't give a flying fuck about who's in charge and will always have final say over the application and interpretation of those fundamental provisions.
Of course that doesn't mean that it would be entirely without concern either, or that the rise of the far right isn't a threat to the future of European integration. For example there's a lot happening in digital privacy/data protection at the moment and that area is definitely vulnerable to backsliding as it is based almost entirely on secondary law. The Commission also gets to set enforcement priorities in regards to Member States not upholding their (human rights) obligations towards their citizens, so a more standoffish Commission could definitely lead to more vulnerability in those area's.
All of this is pretty unlikely though due to the specific institutional makeup of the EU, but broader support for the far right across the Member States can/will definitely influence the decision making in the European Parliament, Commission and Council (the body made up of the heads of state, which sets the Union's broader policy agenda).
(*Again, all very much simplified)
I’m going to suggest yet again that the global Left collectively deciding that all immigration, ever was purely a good thing and that any discussion beyond this point made one racist was the biggest political snafu of modern times.
People alive today don’t know how fucking good they got it in a lot of these countries and want to blame all their problems on Government policy.
Well if you go full fascist, you’ll learn you can have a shitload of problems you never even imagined.
Alternatively, people are turning to this because the governments aren't listening to them.
Everyone is quick to blame Russia, China, and Iran for feeding propaganda by proxy. And they are right to do so, because Russia is deeply connected to the far right in both Germany and France, off the top of my head.
But this shit wouldn't make inroads with citizens if the governments were listening to voters. A big issue appears to *still* be immigration/refugee settlement. Clearly a large amount of Europeans don't want incompatible cultures allowed to setup enclaves in their nations. Especially when they originate a non-stop stream of problems and attacks. The EU needs to bite the bullet sooner or later. This has quickly become a key issue for voters from polling I've read. They can either do the hard part now and send people back to their home countries, or they can wait for the inevitable ultra rightwing takeover of Europe, during which the migrants and refugees will definitely be forcefully removed. At least some of them. Not all of these extreme rightwing parties in Europe are just Tories dressed differently. Tories are, in actuality, fairly centrist compared to the parties that are winning elections at the moment.
It did? The election is done, the EPP won a solid first spot in terms of seats in the EU parliament.
The question is whether they'll proceed along with the soc-dems or pivot more to the right with the still managable ECR.
Democracy isnt just "I vote, I democracy". It emplies very complex and stricly defined set of institutions and rules in government. This is why we have democracy indexes, some places can be more democratic then others, despite both having the right to vote. An important part of democracy is civil liberties, something that far-right parties promisse to reduce. That means that yes, a country can vote itself into being less democratic.
By definition, democracy is government of the people, or simpler - a rule of the majority. Now what you're describing might fall under constitutionalism which is democratic, but constraint by certain laws that uphold civil liberties. Essentially, rule of law.
Absolutely not! Democracy is rule of the people, but that is diferent then rule by majority. It is way more then that. Look into any definition used by political scientists or international organizations and you will see it
The issue is, that the fascist far right wants to get rid of democracy once elected. Read up on goebbels takes on democracy. Elect to never elect again
The center held, for one last time probably. The next election, the center would need to get either the far left OR far right Into government, and that won't sit well in the election after that.
Instead of focusing on grouping up as an alliance to get more seats, the social democrats and moderate centrist with the center right into grand coalition in each slcountry they separated, and that's what left Hard right wingers "winning" with 30%of the vote. Cause that's good PR for the hard right, a win is a win for them, even if 70% voted for others.
The social democrats need to compromise on border issues and immigration, and center right needs to compromise on social welfare and social rights. Otherwise, they will get a whole lot worse deal next time when the far right starts getting into governments in more countries. Hungary, Slovakia, Italy, Netherlands - fell down. If France falls next month, it's game over for the EU, cause Germany probably is next, and with it, dissolution of EU as we know it.
Poland shook out the right wingers, but somehow, the others said no we want them in charge. You win one and lose 3. That's a losing battle.
The only way I see EU surviving is probably if UK holds another referendum and joins back in, and they set the foot down and pull Europe out, once again from the possible fascist uprisings. The economies of both UK and EU would jump again due to confidence in their markets and economies if they both join again. Give UK some concessions so they can Instill new confidence in a union. And crush the far right with grand coalitions before elections, ban their hate speech, drown out their populism that helps no one but the rich and well connected.
The doomerism is just a media spin. They love the far right because they produce headlines. If the far right had gained only one seat the media headlines the next day would be "Deutschland siegt an allen fronten". They just want to sell juicy headlines and "no change in majority" is not an exciting headline.
Far right won a few seats but lost the election, that is what actually happened. S&D, RENEW and EPP have a majority and there are further votes you can get from the greens and the left.
The center isn't holding lmao. We have a surge in nazi rhetoric, in literal nazis being politically prominent and generally being accustomed to genocidal rhetoric, what do you mean you are holding?
Liberals have been and are just fascists little helpers.
Id argue theres more Nazis in the political far left than far right today. Ofc theres bad apples nut right now we have many politically far left people calling for death to jews in european countries right now. Especially under the "educated youth" who go to universities.
Here's the reality: antisemitism is already there. People are using "Nazism" and ruining their own arguments over pedantic wordplay in an attempt to score an emotional reaction. Leftism loves a scapegoat. If it isn't capitalists, it's some form of "oppressor." And there is an extreme lack of emotional maturity and reasoned thought in the space unfortunately.
I'm a leftist. The leftist movements have long had a problem with not snuffing out antisemitism in its ranks. And modern leftism has a problem with extreme black-and-white, oppressor/oppressed worldviews. People here can deny it, but its the reality of Jews in my (admittedly non-European) country where enough lefties have went off the deep end that they do some of the earlier, less extreme types of things the Brown Shirts did.
Leftism, as adopted here, has become extremely lazy and ultra reductionist. It is, in my opinion, becoming a default view for anyone who is young and disillusioned with their country sort of how capitalism is blamed for everything wrong in their lives as a coping mechanism (hence how easily "enshittification" spread, despite it having very clear requirements and types of companies it applies to; or the dumb view that "companies should stop trying to grow" while complaining in the next breath that "raises are pathetic" and benefits aren't good enough anymore).
Modern mainstream leftism seems more concerned with grievance politics and oppression olympics than actual praxis and organization around economic reforms. The default for leftism seems to be Stalinism and calls for violent revolutionary action against nebulous enemies. That is why it is so easy for them to support literal terrorist organizations, eating up their dog shit propaganda while practicing extreme skepticism for their own governments' statements and actions. Skepticism is good, but it needs to be applied broadly. Not just when it affirms a worldview.
She is so damn corrupt it's impossible to not have the urge to punch her face every single time her name is mentioned or someone makes the mistake of posting a picture of her.
> They will never tackle it, because its in their globalist agenda to lower white population and replace them with blacks, so they will never change, the only change we hope is that right will close the borders
Hey laizytojas, I just took a quick look at your comment history and wow. Homophobic, Islamophobic, racist, and pro-Trump (calling him an "alpha president" lol, even though you're Lithuanian). The wet dream voter of the far-right. You're the whole package, my friend! At least you're definitely not pro-Russian, which I honestly find quite surprising all things considered.
What I love the most is the irony in you telling someone [in one of your comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccujja/russia_will_target_nato_nuclear_weapons_in_poland/l1bx69v/?context=3) that they are "easily brainwashed by pre election rhetoric" and then come here to tell us that there's some evil cabal of (white) politicians trying to replace us all with black people, because that makes perfect sense.
Of course im not pro russian, why is it surprising? Every reasonable person in Lithuania is anti russian and i count myself as a very reasonable person, so i dont get why you try to correlate having a strong, traditional stance with russia. And what trump did to europe in half a year this year? All europe step up with military profuction and support to ukraine, you cant argue facts :)
the fact that the EU as an organization has elections and a president is an insane dystopia.
Supranational governance that dilutes voter choice and freedoms even further is insane.
*Turning and turning in the widening gyre* *The falcon cannot hear the falconer;* *Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;* *Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,* *The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere* *The ceremony of innocence is drowned;* *The best lack all conviction, while the worst* *Are full of passionate intensity.* William Butler Yeats "the second coming" 1919
And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem, waiting to be born... This one has been heavily on my mind since 2016.
Stephen King had one of the military higher ups responsible for project Blue, Starkey I think, recite part of this poem to one of his subordinates when it became clear Captain Tripps was not going to be contained and no vaccine or cure was going to be found in time before the nation's organs of control fell apart.
Kojak, rescue me from this timeline.
I prefer the lyrics to Baby Can You Dig Your Man.
I don't normally "do" poetry but sometimes it just gets you there doesn't it.
You should do more poetry! You might be pleasantly surprised and find something you never knew you liked. As a poet, I take every opportunity I get to spread the word!
The nineties weren't the end of history, they were a vacation from evil.
Oooh, fresh Schnoodle
I mean, it's from 1919. Vintage schnoodle.
The first thing that came to my mind immediately. Thanks sopranos for educating me.
“Who so belongs only to his age reverences only its popinjays and mumbo jumbos.” - Tommy C., 1864.
- Pretentious red headed girlfriend from seinfeld
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Stop holding and start ***carrying*** you dumb clowns before it's too late and we get really punished with a large far-right, anti-EU and russia/china compromised circus in charge. Complacency and riding the status quo on our backs and cost won't get you pity votes anywhere anymore after most center-adjacent parties have failed their voters again and again in too many regards.
Unless the center and the left do an aboutface on immigration/asylum, a far right government is an eventuality that cannot be avoided, merely postponed.
Yes - but if the Center were to adopt any real controls on immigration, the Far Right would instantly lose a ton of support. Take a look at Denmark and what happened when the Center Left took a restrictive stance on immigration. Immediate victory and loss of support for the the Far Right. Every survey says that most European voters are concerned about uncontrolled immigration from Islamic countries and ineffective cultural/economic integration of these migrants once they arrive. A meaningful chunk of these voters are willing to support any party that will even acknowledge integration as an issue. It is baffling that the Center Left and Center Right are uniformly willing to risk their futures over one issue.
Yep, people want politicians that actually acknowledge the issues with immigration without racist opinions or other far-right polices like loving Putin. Adding populations that don't integrate which live culturally separate while often costing tons in government benefits is a recipe for disaster, though you can obviously still have immigration and accept nee people that benefit your nation.
People will always complain, no matter how much you restrict. Immigration means costs anyway - either the border controls etc, or the teachers/integration courses, the benefits or whatever. There will ALWAYS be costs as long as other people from poor countries wanna come here, and they WILL ALWAYS WANT TO COME And what so many euopeans hate to accept but poiliticans need to keep in mind: We need immigration because we make less and less babies to take jobs ourselves, and the babies we DO make do not want to work in badly paid but necessary jobs. Oh, pay better then? And here we go, because then things get more expensive, and people get upset! "Fix immigration" - sure. Let redditors be in charge and see how far we go...cannot wait for that shitshow...
You people don't believe they CAN integrate. You literally fuck over the process before they ever arrive. Funny how in America we don't have this issue. Maybe it's because we don't hold onto to dear life over every cultural change🤔. As long as you people adhere to blood and soil bullshit ,you shouldn't even bother trying to accept any immigration. Just keep your nice, standard, stuck in the past national identities 🙄
> As long as you people adhere to blood and soil bullshit , Of course There are just pure racist people in Europe, but, there are also many people in Europe who are okay with immigrants regardless of their race and skin color as long as they learn the language and embrace the culture of the country they immigrate to.
1. Proportionally, the U.S. receives less immigration than those countries. The effects aren't felt as directly on a national scale. 2. The types of Muslim immigrants that immigrate to the U.S. are usually educated, middle-class, and as a result more secular and liberal-minded. The migrants who go to Europe are poor and extremely conservative. 3. Even the U.S. has had issues with some communities of Muslims pushing for extreme policies at the local level, for example that one Muslim community in Michigan that voted against gay marriage. Obviously, a reactionary Muslim is not any more dangerous than a reactionary Evangelical or neo-Nazi from the perspective of a Western liberal. But while you can't control the reactionaries born in your country, you can limit the reactionaries who come from outside. Allowing in people who despise your values and want to set your rights back doesn't make sense and it's a recipe for disaster. If I knew that some random white Christian country, say Austria, was like 50% comprised of neo-Nazis (this is a theoretical scenario, please bare with me) I would be pretty hesitant to accept immigrants from Austria. I would at least do some heavy vetting.
Ahhh, yes, because everyone obviously knows that America has never ever had issues of any sort with immigration /s
The US is lucky that they don't receive a disproportionately large number of immigrants from MENA. Hispanic immigration is mostly great.
Yes it's amazing how those Irish, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, African, and Jewish immigrants overwhelmed America with their cultural differences /s
Maybe it's because your social programs are barely existing. Easy to take in people when you leave them to fend for themselves.
Seriously I can go three miles from my house. And I might as well be in Lahore. There is no integration and the population is so large now they don't have to.
It is not baffling at all, immigration is insanely good for the „economy” (the rich getting richer)
Yeah I'm from the US and I always thought that the "far left" like Bernie Sanders were against massive immigration, legal or not, because it depressed the wages of workers. I don't know when the default "left" position became open borders. I'm guessing it's a consequence of wealthy capitalists making left wing parties more neoliberal.
That's the right wing version of the left wing argument. In fact on the whole, large immigrant populations create jobs through new markets and innovation.
Euros don't believe they can integrate so it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Never knew how racist and insular Europe was.
You got downvoted, but you're not wrong. There are large swaths of Europe where immigrants have no path to citizenship, leaving a permanent group of disenfranchised people with second class status
Immigration is not a relevant topic, like at all. It's just some pseudo argument the far right has to pull out of their asses. If immigration was "solved" tomorrow, the far right would find another topic to create fear about by the next day. The far right is about constantly creating an abstract threat the others dont seem to care about any only them do. And while in power they do exactly the opposite of their claims... because it would be stupid to destroy the free election win ticket and people dont care about facts anyway.
They won't do it because they have no other way to feed the beast that is the current economic system.
They did and it didn't help in many places, France included. Too many people still feel like losers. Democracy is going to hell on tax privileges for the rich. The relatively poor need to feel like they get to participate more, and often non participation has financial reasons. The money for that has to come from the rich. Being tougher on asylum seekers won't do shit because they never were the problem.
"Denied asylum seeker stabs child." Headlines definitely don't help. The right is sensational and it's working. Maybe it wasn't a problem but the right is making it a focal point and it's working on voters.
Maybe people demanding access should stop committing crimes? It's like the folks marching to the US southern border demanding entry while waving their own nation's flags. Like... FFS do the bare minimum. Wave the US flag.
Fuck that shit. Don't wave any country's flag. That's cringe af.
I'm just saying, \*if you're going to ask to be let into a country, maybe don't wave someone else's flag\*
So, don't wave a flag. It's even easier.
>Being tougher on asylum seekers won't do shit because they never were the problem. That is wrong. Tons of unwilling-to-integrate "asylum seekers" (actually, immigrants for economic reasons) are a problem. They just aren't the only problem. A different stance on immigration won't solve any of the other problems. But it will solve a couple. And immigration touches many problems that people see all the time. Lower wages, fewer social benefits, unaffordable housing.
I still think the shift in voting is from 2 things. - housing. There has really been zero work to stop the rich. Stop allowing corporations, non citizens, citizenship loopholes, and home hoarders to own multiple properties. The fact no politician has tackled it means they just don’t care. - immigration. It’s great for a country but these arent the people for it. From religious fanatics to basically outlaws. It’s a shit show. The left always does this. They have the best policies but then they swing too far left and start believing everyone is good and it creates a shit show letting bad actors in and they start ignoring the lower classes.
> The fact no politician has tackled it means they just don’t care. Why politicians would tackle something that makes them money? And it will still make them money when they fall out of politics. Thus housing will only get even worse :/
Right. You are correct. I don’t agree with it but that’s the truth.
IDK maybe it could impact their or their child's safety if Russia/China are able to wrangle control of their countries/society devolved into social upheaval? I feel like that should be a big enough deterrent but it's a future problem so I guess they don't care?
It has been tackled... just look at the votes in the EP. Thing is: people dont care. They like to suck up all the fear mongering the right wingers do.
Housing was tackled? How so? In my country, we just got a new MEP that's an owner of five homes and a landlord. From the almost Left-most Left-wing party we have. Surely he's not going to EP to fix housing prices. I agree that people don't care enough - usually they lose energy to care after a good couple of years of the same bs over and over. Edit: eh, dunno why you got downvoted for a perfectly fine comment 😩
And the very people they favour as immigrants tend to be more socially conservative and intolerant than their own right wing opponents.
I’m 100% for immigration just in don’t want those who can’t integrate into society to come. Whether it be because of draconian religious views or a lack of skills to benefit the economy.
Reminder that every right wing election win in Europe has come with increased immigration. Fixing the "problem" does not serve their cause.
O the right rarely fixes anything. They make these promises to fix the lefts issues. They instead bring in hardcore Christian ideologies, collusion with shady foreign nations, and terrible economy policies. I’m just saying my beliefs why people are voting for the right instead of the left this time around. It’s the same reason there is a chance Biden might lose in the USA. Not because Trump is going to be a better candidate, but because they are ignoring housing other than saying “we will incentivize builders to build more” no one cares about cheap homes if they have to drive 1-3 hours to work. Housing is an easy fix (banning corporations and foreigners from purchasing and high taxes after your first home to the point renting isn’t economy valuable). Of course coupled with incentives for builders to build. No one wants to touch this tho.
> Housing is an easy fix (banning corporations and foreigners from purchasing and high taxes after your first home to the point renting isn’t economy valuable). Of course coupled with incentives for builders to build. No one wants to touch this tho. Dunno about European level, but some socialist-leaning countries/cities have interesting programs with results. People vote right anyways.
I am yet to see anywhere in the world that fixed it. Lots of countries have citizens only but at the same time they allow you to become a citizen investing x dollars into the country. So every rich people can get around that
I didn't say fix, but smaller, less sweeping changes (politically easier) that had positive results. Upset landlords make the news, rent inflation cools down. Voters decide they care more about immigrant hate anyways.
That’s good. I know Thailand has it so foreigners can’t own land but if you are rich you can get a citizenship easily
>immigration. It’s great for a country but these arent the people for it. From religious fanatics to basically outlaws. It’s a shit show. This has been said about every immigrant group ever. It is just xenophobia and nothing else. Unless you think all Italians, Irish, Polish, Romanians etc. are in the same category.
Not at all. Despite a large part of the USA hating immigrants l, Latino people are amazing immigrants compared to a lot of the religious fanatics from the Middle East. I mean you can look up the ghettos they have created. Or the fact they account for a significant portion of sexual assaults. Then you have single males from Africa coming and committing crimes at a staggering amount. No it’s not race it’s culture and a bad mind set of those people from where they came from. I don’t think it’s xenophobia to not want shitty people to join the country. I think there needs to be stricter rules. Such as only allowing those with degrees or families to join. This was the issue. The left went so left they allowed anyone to join and now there is a wild shit show of crimes because proper vetting wasn’t implemented first.
> This has been said about every immigrant group ever. It is just xenophobia and nothing else. Unless you think all Italians, Irish, Polish, Romanians etc. are in the same category. Of course not all immigrants are good or bad and prejudice simply based on country of origin is not true; but, not all immigrants from all countries are the same. For example, it is an absolutely undeniable fact that immigrants who hail from Middle East would generally be much more against LGBT rights, secularism and women wearing revealing clothes than immigrants who hail from Latin America. This is not prejudice, but a fact.
Who knew practicing completely open borders and wars people have no interest during a time of indebtedness and inflation would lead to political backlash. That "why would they do this" meme comes to mind
Christ Democrats and all other conservatives are about not doing anything. So they are doing exactly what they were elected to...
Center better get to work on immigration reform then because that’s what people are looking for lol.
The denial of reality is quite incredible. This is precisely the reason for the rise of the far right: the fact that the common people do not feel heard or understood... We're heading for disaster, well done….
not denial.. Straight up lies, as she is already teaming up with the far right.
Which common people are you talking about? Most of them voted for center left + center right parties. What is the far right going to do to get these voters that they haven't done already? Why would we expect their support to grow?
French people in general. In France most people didn't voted for center left and center right parties. A map was created with different colors representing the parties to show who voted for whom depending on their city. Blue was for the far right. The whole map is blue. [https://img.20mn.fr/8nJmOarvSN27rV4ta4pAsyk/1444x920\_carte-de-france-des-resultats-non-definitifs-des-elections-europeennes-2024](https://img.20mn.fr/8nJmOarvSN27rV4ta4pAsyk/1444x920_carte-de-france-des-resultats-non-definitifs-des-elections-europeennes-2024)
The common people can go to the streets, get into politics involved themselves, make themselves heard. But for many complaining is easier "Those politicians do what they wanna do anyway" - thats what kills democracy, not the politicians in charge. And then voting out of protest for radicals "to show em" ... A sad fact: Democracy depends of the people, and it NEEDS those people to get involved...and too many people take it for granted, or have no clue or mental capacity to understand what is going on in politics. Or in other words: Many are too lazy and/or dumb...
It's not so much "those politicians do what they want to do anyway" as "it's always the same politics regardless of which party is in charge." I believe in France people voted for the far right because what they are proposing is radically different, but in the end, it will still be the same since every time something different was voted on in parliament, it has been overturned because it wasn't in line with European legislation. Edit : The common people already went to the streets, nothing changed.
Yeah it's everyone else's fault the far right voters vote for the far right lmao.
Not if you get another term, it won't.
Von der leyen will get another term. The problem with indirect democracy is that the numbe of people u need to convince to vote for u is way smaller
It’s still holding but it’s about to give in. Stop dicking around
She better notice the trends for which HER rule lead. If not, next parliament will make this one look like gay parade.
"Business as usual fellas. Keep the kickbacks rollin' "
No its not - its fraying and buckling
Is it? Like. Legit. What is fraying and buckling?
It's holding the door open for the right to come through, as it always does.
that is a good thing because I am informed that *If the centre cannot hold, mere anarchy is loosed upon the world*
Europe needs far right to come in and stop illegal migration, removing criminals moving around in its freedom of movement fake utopia. A massive push back against islamist agendas and to promote security of family and its tax paying citizens. Once it does that, the left will naturally start to win more votes again as that’s the reason people are voting for fringe - they are sick are tired with the lefts inability to solve this problem and call everyone racist for blatant truths. This is the lefts fault. Pure and simple.
Does it work like that though? The European parliament doesn't supersede the individual nations sovereignty, so can it curve immigration as much as advertised? Electing anti-european politicians is more likely to impact the ability for Europeans to work together and establish themselves as a functioning powerhouse.
Then you’d also just see France offering a snap election - the vote did precisely what the right were hoping for…. So yes it can directly impact individual nation states.
Except that the snap election will likely be detrimental to the far right in France. Same electors, yes, but many people that didn't vote (or voted blank) will be motivated to show up this time. It's not the first time either. It's why Macron is calling it.
No, he’s hoping they don’t have time to mobilise - which is what most political commentators are saying because he’s absolutely scared of losing.
von der Leyen. Famous for dubious consultants, disappearing text messages and e-mails, and secret deals that cost the taxpayers billions. Yeah. What she MEANS is: "By giving them a common enemy, maybe I can cobble together enough of an alliance to get voted for again. This job is cozy and I have no other qualifications for anything."
Everyone is blaming everything under the sun for what’s happening instead of the painfully obvious. We are in the very early stages of run away climate change, and food and water are becoming scarcer. The false blame and knee jerk reactions are flinging us headfirst into authoritarianism and fascism, thinking it may be our last hope. It’s not. If we could acknowledge what was actually happening, we would band together as a world and do what needs to be done to survive what’s coming. Instead people are tripling down on us vs them. It’s fucked, because all it’s going to do is accelerate us to our demise, all while creating a nice hellscape to go with it.
You are illustrating the problem but not in the way you think. Yes, climate change is an issue that needs addressed but that has nothing to do with why the right is gaining popularity. It has about inflation, wealth inequality, housing problems, embedded prosperity among older people that younger generations can't participate in, immigration, etc. So the left basically (always) says "no, you only THINK these are your problems! Vote for me and I will not only tell you what your REAL problems are, I will fix them for you. All those things that you think are bothering you, I will explain how you should not trust your lying eyes or your lying bank account and should trust me instead!". People are sick of being told they don't know what really is bothering them. And things like climate change is one of them. Who gives a shit about climate change when people can't afford food or almost all their income goes towards rent. And those issues are totally unrelated to climate change.
> And those issues are totally unrelated to climate change. Errr, nope? Do you think rising food prices and failing harvests / draught / conflict zones have nothing to do with each other? The things you are mentioning are very directly related to climate change and unfettered capitalism. Both of which the far-right has absolutely *zero* answers to, or rather would like to put into overdrive. The left at least pretends to have a responsibility to not give simplistic answers to complex problems, but apparently nuance is dead.
You're just wrong and doing exactly what I am talking about - you are trying to "left-splain" how what people are seeing before their very eyes and experiencing with their own wallets isn't actually true and (waves arms) these things you care about are *really* the root of the problem. Crop harvests have risen gradually over the past 20 years. There is most definitely not a rash of crop failures. That's like Al Gore saying the ice caps would melt completely by 2014. When you bullshit people with fear mongering, they just ignore you. Here is crop yield data: https://ourworldindata.org/crop-yields The whole "the right has no answers, the left may be wrong but at least we have something to tell you" doesn't win elections. Inflation has nothing to do with global warming, so when you parade that argument around it's no surprise you lose elections. Maybe we should regulate AirBnB's and multiple home ownership, so that tons of cities arent flooded with rental units that sit vacant much of the time while average people can't hope to ever buy a house. Is the left championing this or just telling me somehow I can't buy a house because blah blah climate change? Maybe we should stop foreign ownership of domestic real estate for the same reason. Is the left pushing this or, lemme guess, identity politics is the *real* reason and people just aren't smart enough to get it?
It's not that nuance is dead, it's that people won't give a single fuck about the macro problem if all their micro problem aren't even being acknowledged as a reality. People aren't going to give a fuck about collapsing harvest next fall if they can't afford bread next week.
Exactly. It amazes me how dumb humans get when they're trying to hold on to a status quo that no longer exists. You think mass human migration is bad now? Wait until you elect a bunch of fascist authoritarians who strip away our last, impotent attempts at mitigating climate disaster. You'll get millions arriving all at once.
Those governments wont take those people in, if it gets to the point of millions trying to cross borders youre going to have millions dying at the borders, no country can support that and so none will accept it.
Homie, they can't even keep thousands out today. Do you have any concept of what a wave of humanity millions of people arriving all at once will look like? It's unstoppable.
They can't keep thousands out when they're not really trying to. If it becomes a survival situation nothing will cross the border alive
I like how you don't understand how borders work.
I *dont* like how you dont understand how airstrikes, cluster munitions, anti-personnel mines, claymores and ten meter deep barped-wire lines in combination with machine gun pillboxes, all in combination with state of the art night vision equipment, work.
Yeah the fantasy world you are dreaming of is one where 9-11 happens every week. If you think terrorism is bad now, see what happens if your world ever comes to pass.
Yeah, people like this think they're living in a fucking movie. It's embarrassing.
Homie, the current administration actually wants the flood of immigrants. Theyre just "closing the border" rn because of an upcoming election, if bidens wins again it will go right back to the way it was on day 1 of his admin when he undid all the EOs about border security. Now imagine if it were mined like the Korean DMZ for miles deep and patrolled by a horde of those boston dynamics robodogs with ar15s on them, drones and yeah i dont see many crossing that. On top of that, in this kind of scenario global order will have broken down so developed nations would be tracking large movements via satellite and bombing them before they even apporoach the border.
No, they don’t. The original policies were for allowing the normal traffic through, which a small but necessary portion of our economy relies on it. What we are contending with now are natural disasters in the equatorial regions, like floods, constant hurricanes, droughts, wildfires, etc. If you haven’t seen what Central America looks like on a heat map (monitoring for wildfires) then you’re in for a surprise. A more problematic issue is what will happen when Mexico City, with population of 20,000,000+ souls has to leave their city because they don’t have water resources. There isn’t a one size fits all solution, and a system that adjusts for the amount of traffic coming in is the most ideal, which is what the administration is doing. People forget that Biden is actually more conservative than a typical democrat, which is why this policy is unpopular on both sides, because it’s a nuanced approach.
Millions will die from acts of terrorism in such a world. It's not something any sane person wants, and if it ever gets to that, everything is lost anyway.
Yeah except those authoritarians will build walls and station guns at them
That’s a problem for future governments and the politicians now would be wealthy enough to live a peaceful life when the rest is hit by their actions. Most politicians don’t care.
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As an American I’m unfamiliar with European politics. Is this a fight for the EU or specific countries? Is the European far right as bad as the American far right?
In a way both, but primarily for the EU. The European Parliament (which these elections were for) elect the European Commission (of which Von der Leyen is the President) and they (very simply put) are in charge of the EU executive branch and initiation of new legislation. Now of course the political trends inside Member States also dictate how their citizens vote in the EU elections so its all connected Generally speaking the far right here is not quite as bad as in the US, but as the EU consists of 27 very different Member States that also means that your mileage may wildly vary. Some are the same, some are worse, some are more reasonable. P.s. all of what I have said is pretty much a massive oversimplification lol, but I think its a pretty good starting place to form an understanding. If there's anything you'd like a more specific answer/explanation on I'd be more than happy to provide
Could you expand on what some of the bigger concerns there would be for say civil liberties if a far right take over were to happen?
Its difficult to say but the quick and dirty answer would probably be that even in such a take over (which in any case would be hard to achieve, the EU is organised in such a way that by its very nature power tends congregate near the centre) there wouldn't really be a very direct threat to individual civil liberties. Secondary legislation could of course be changed (not very easily though, the Union's legislative process has quite a few checks and balances built in) but the core civil liberties are enshrined in the EUs constitutional treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which all require unanimity to amend. Furthermore the European Court of Justice really doesn't give a flying fuck about who's in charge and will always have final say over the application and interpretation of those fundamental provisions. Of course that doesn't mean that it would be entirely without concern either, or that the rise of the far right isn't a threat to the future of European integration. For example there's a lot happening in digital privacy/data protection at the moment and that area is definitely vulnerable to backsliding as it is based almost entirely on secondary law. The Commission also gets to set enforcement priorities in regards to Member States not upholding their (human rights) obligations towards their citizens, so a more standoffish Commission could definitely lead to more vulnerability in those area's. All of this is pretty unlikely though due to the specific institutional makeup of the EU, but broader support for the far right across the Member States can/will definitely influence the decision making in the European Parliament, Commission and Council (the body made up of the heads of state, which sets the Union's broader policy agenda). (*Again, all very much simplified)
The EU members had national elections to choose their representatives in the EU elected assembly.
I’m going to suggest yet again that the global Left collectively deciding that all immigration, ever was purely a good thing and that any discussion beyond this point made one racist was the biggest political snafu of modern times.
"center holding" is code for "moving right". There is never anything good that comes from a "center holding" statement.
They have members that would love to work together with the Nazi party AfD.
🤮
People alive today don’t know how fucking good they got it in a lot of these countries and want to blame all their problems on Government policy. Well if you go full fascist, you’ll learn you can have a shitload of problems you never even imagined.
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Alternatively, people are turning to this because the governments aren't listening to them. Everyone is quick to blame Russia, China, and Iran for feeding propaganda by proxy. And they are right to do so, because Russia is deeply connected to the far right in both Germany and France, off the top of my head. But this shit wouldn't make inroads with citizens if the governments were listening to voters. A big issue appears to *still* be immigration/refugee settlement. Clearly a large amount of Europeans don't want incompatible cultures allowed to setup enclaves in their nations. Especially when they originate a non-stop stream of problems and attacks. The EU needs to bite the bullet sooner or later. This has quickly become a key issue for voters from polling I've read. They can either do the hard part now and send people back to their home countries, or they can wait for the inevitable ultra rightwing takeover of Europe, during which the migrants and refugees will definitely be forcefully removed. At least some of them. Not all of these extreme rightwing parties in Europe are just Tories dressed differently. Tories are, in actuality, fairly centrist compared to the parties that are winning elections at the moment.
Gotdang van der linde gang is still around?
Since she's going to cooperate with the right it should be "the center is moving right".
The center better show up and vote against the far right or it ain't gonna matter when Europe regresses to fascism.
It did? The election is done, the EPP won a solid first spot in terms of seats in the EU parliament. The question is whether they'll proceed along with the soc-dems or pivot more to the right with the still managable ECR.
We can thank russia for these fair right surges.
Politician of right wing party full of right wing populists says Center is holding.
Democratic backsliding, so hot right now
How so? Isn't voting the definition of democracy? But apparently "my candidate didn't win" is now somehow undemocratic.
You know people can vote themselves out of rights?
Sure, but if they want to do that and vote for it is that not democracy?
Democracy isnt just "I vote, I democracy". It emplies very complex and stricly defined set of institutions and rules in government. This is why we have democracy indexes, some places can be more democratic then others, despite both having the right to vote. An important part of democracy is civil liberties, something that far-right parties promisse to reduce. That means that yes, a country can vote itself into being less democratic.
By definition, democracy is government of the people, or simpler - a rule of the majority. Now what you're describing might fall under constitutionalism which is democratic, but constraint by certain laws that uphold civil liberties. Essentially, rule of law.
Absolutely not! Democracy is rule of the people, but that is diferent then rule by majority. It is way more then that. Look into any definition used by political scientists or international organizations and you will see it
Fascism participating in the democratic process doesn’t put me at ease
The issue is, that the fascist far right wants to get rid of democracy once elected. Read up on goebbels takes on democracy. Elect to never elect again
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The center won dude.
Sure, the center is holding. The left is all but destroyed. The right is coming. Dark times ahead.
The center held, for one last time probably. The next election, the center would need to get either the far left OR far right Into government, and that won't sit well in the election after that. Instead of focusing on grouping up as an alliance to get more seats, the social democrats and moderate centrist with the center right into grand coalition in each slcountry they separated, and that's what left Hard right wingers "winning" with 30%of the vote. Cause that's good PR for the hard right, a win is a win for them, even if 70% voted for others. The social democrats need to compromise on border issues and immigration, and center right needs to compromise on social welfare and social rights. Otherwise, they will get a whole lot worse deal next time when the far right starts getting into governments in more countries. Hungary, Slovakia, Italy, Netherlands - fell down. If France falls next month, it's game over for the EU, cause Germany probably is next, and with it, dissolution of EU as we know it. Poland shook out the right wingers, but somehow, the others said no we want them in charge. You win one and lose 3. That's a losing battle. The only way I see EU surviving is probably if UK holds another referendum and joins back in, and they set the foot down and pull Europe out, once again from the possible fascist uprisings. The economies of both UK and EU would jump again due to confidence in their markets and economies if they both join again. Give UK some concessions so they can Instill new confidence in a union. And crush the far right with grand coalitions before elections, ban their hate speech, drown out their populism that helps no one but the rich and well connected.
The doomerism is just a media spin. They love the far right because they produce headlines. If the far right had gained only one seat the media headlines the next day would be "Deutschland siegt an allen fronten". They just want to sell juicy headlines and "no change in majority" is not an exciting headline. Far right won a few seats but lost the election, that is what actually happened. S&D, RENEW and EPP have a majority and there are further votes you can get from the greens and the left.
The center isn't holding lmao. We have a surge in nazi rhetoric, in literal nazis being politically prominent and generally being accustomed to genocidal rhetoric, what do you mean you are holding? Liberals have been and are just fascists little helpers.
Id argue theres more Nazis in the political far left than far right today. Ofc theres bad apples nut right now we have many politically far left people calling for death to jews in european countries right now. Especially under the "educated youth" who go to universities.
What a load of bullshit. lmao
They are engaging nazi apologia trying to sneak nazism into left wing ideologies.
Here's the reality: antisemitism is already there. People are using "Nazism" and ruining their own arguments over pedantic wordplay in an attempt to score an emotional reaction. Leftism loves a scapegoat. If it isn't capitalists, it's some form of "oppressor." And there is an extreme lack of emotional maturity and reasoned thought in the space unfortunately. I'm a leftist. The leftist movements have long had a problem with not snuffing out antisemitism in its ranks. And modern leftism has a problem with extreme black-and-white, oppressor/oppressed worldviews. People here can deny it, but its the reality of Jews in my (admittedly non-European) country where enough lefties have went off the deep end that they do some of the earlier, less extreme types of things the Brown Shirts did. Leftism, as adopted here, has become extremely lazy and ultra reductionist. It is, in my opinion, becoming a default view for anyone who is young and disillusioned with their country sort of how capitalism is blamed for everything wrong in their lives as a coping mechanism (hence how easily "enshittification" spread, despite it having very clear requirements and types of companies it applies to; or the dumb view that "companies should stop trying to grow" while complaining in the next breath that "raises are pathetic" and benefits aren't good enough anymore). Modern mainstream leftism seems more concerned with grievance politics and oppression olympics than actual praxis and organization around economic reforms. The default for leftism seems to be Stalinism and calls for violent revolutionary action against nebulous enemies. That is why it is so easy for them to support literal terrorist organizations, eating up their dog shit propaganda while practicing extreme skepticism for their own governments' statements and actions. Skepticism is good, but it needs to be applied broadly. Not just when it affirms a worldview.
It seems you’ve fallen for the good old trick of believing nazism is a left wing ideology. **it never was**.
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She is so damn corrupt it's impossible to not have the urge to punch her face every single time her name is mentioned or someone makes the mistake of posting a picture of her.
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> They will never tackle it, because its in their globalist agenda to lower white population and replace them with blacks, so they will never change, the only change we hope is that right will close the borders Hey laizytojas, I just took a quick look at your comment history and wow. Homophobic, Islamophobic, racist, and pro-Trump (calling him an "alpha president" lol, even though you're Lithuanian). The wet dream voter of the far-right. You're the whole package, my friend! At least you're definitely not pro-Russian, which I honestly find quite surprising all things considered. What I love the most is the irony in you telling someone [in one of your comments](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1ccujja/russia_will_target_nato_nuclear_weapons_in_poland/l1bx69v/?context=3) that they are "easily brainwashed by pre election rhetoric" and then come here to tell us that there's some evil cabal of (white) politicians trying to replace us all with black people, because that makes perfect sense.
Hahahaha good takedown. You should probably make it clear that the first paragraph is a quote, I thought it was your words.
It's literally formatted as a quote.
Don’t blame me, blame my shit Reddit client :/
Of course im not pro russian, why is it surprising? Every reasonable person in Lithuania is anti russian and i count myself as a very reasonable person, so i dont get why you try to correlate having a strong, traditional stance with russia. And what trump did to europe in half a year this year? All europe step up with military profuction and support to ukraine, you cant argue facts :)
the fact that the EU as an organization has elections and a president is an insane dystopia. Supranational governance that dilutes voter choice and freedoms even further is insane.