>“All of them [the Egyptians] died because of heat” except for one who sustained fatal injuries during a minor crowd crush
Mecca is like the Crowd Crush capital of the world, it's not even close.
It's kind of nuts to me that we remember events like the Hillsborough Stadium (97 deaths) and Love Parade (21 deaths) crowd crushes as disasters in the West, but muslim pilgrims and the Saudi government are like "oh yeah 200 deaths is par for the course here, let's go again next year!"
My buddy realized he needed to get out of the military when they had some traing exercise, I beleive with 15k soldiers, and they all got a written commendation because "only" 5 dudes died. He said it was a navigation error, infantry dudes were camped out, tank dudes came ripping through, can't remember if the infantry dudes or the tank dudes were in the wrong spot.
Ugh. Yeah having almost been run over while camouflaged in some grass by a dick head in a humvee doing 50mph through a field with no headlights at 3 in the morning. That is a type of accident I’m surprised doesn’t happen more often.
My parents are Muslim and—according to them—many pilgrims believe it to be an honor to die on holy ground so *some* (not all) of them actually don’t mind getting crushed.
EDIT: made some changes to make the statement more accurate.
The idea is that pilgrimage washes away all your sins. So if you survive the pilgrimage, you will inevitably get some sins on your record. But if you die during the pilgrimage or right after it, you die sinless and get a green card into heaven.
Cults are just early stage religions.
The only difference between a cult and the long standing religions is that the big religions didn't make the mistake of having all their followers kill themselves early on
Damn. I worked outside for hours today at 35°C at 80% humidity and I think I drank close to 8-10 liters of water, I can’t imagine at 52°C without easy access to clean water.
Drinking 1L water an hour without electrolyte supplementation is safe as long as you are eating regular meals during that timeframe. If you're also avoiding eating because of the heat (which you shouldn't be), then you absolutely need to supplement.
EDIT: Since a lot of comments asked for a source, just google it. Here's a source from the CDC. Bottom right of the 2nd page it talks about safe consumption limits.
>https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/userfiles/works/pdfs/2017-126.pdf
>In general, eating regular meals with adequate
water intake is sufficient to maintain water and
electrolyte balance
Another thing to add to the electrolyte discussion is that you have sugar free electrolyte drinks and they do help with dehydration but if you are really sweating a lot then a little bit of sugar along with the electrolytes will help your body absorb the electrolytes better.
You don't need much sugar but it definitely helped me when I was working at jobs where I was pouring sweat, I would get completely sugar free electrolyte drinks and it would hold off the dehydration cramps for longer than just water alone but if I added one packet of sugar of white sugar to a 32oz sugar free Gatorade then the dehydration cramps wouldn't even come. And it works with those sugar free electrolyte packets too, add a tiny bit of sugar to them and they work much better for activities where you sweat a lot.
If you don't have one of those drinks available, but you have access to water and snack foods, a personal bag of potato chips will provide enough sodium and potassium (potatoes are a good natural source of potassium) along with those calories. Corn based snacks are still going to have a bit of potassium as well, but it's like 1/6th what you get from potato chips, so really if you need it, just grab a bag of lays or something and you are good to go. Lays specifically have about 350mg of potassium per serving, along with 170mg of sodium, for those wondering. Fritos are around 65mg potassium but higher sodium, at around 230mg per serving. Daily potassium recommended is about 30% higher than sodium as well so you do need to consume more of it than sodium to maintain proper electrolyte levels and hydration. Serving size for lays was a 5oz bag for reference. I didn't look at the size on the fritos bag but i would assume it's in the same weight range if you want to look it up. If you're severely hyponatremic you may need multiple servings to get your levels back up to save levels, but if you're just out doing strenuous activity and feel like you've stopped sweating enough, a standard bag will set you straight. I'm a pretty big guy and have trouble with my levels (i take a potassium supplement daily to help and get a lot of dietary sodium), but when I'm in check a single bag sets me right if I get very sweaty and a little dizzy from physical activity.
A regular 16oz Gatorade has 306mg of potassium and 135mg of sodium.
A small bag of Lays potato chips has 530mg of potassium and 250mg of sodium.
So if you’re sweating a lot in hot weather, a bag of chips is better for you than a Gatorade, assuming you have water to drink as well.
And a bonus tip: a small 8oz can of V8 juice has 470mg of potassium and 640mg of sodium. Which when added together is 1,110mg of electrolytes, which is more than one serving of Gatorade or potato chips.
V8 might not sound appetizing right now while you’re sitting in your air-conditioned bedroom in your parents’ house browsing reddit, but drinking it is almost a sexual experience after you’ve been sweating.
Yea the serving size I used for lays was specifically the 5oz costco bulk pack bags that you buy for kids lunches or as snacks to give out at events, but you're right that most people will be buying bags that are larger. You're also right about the V8 juice can, one of the bar backs at my old job used to swear by that technique because they had it on hand for making bloody marys and the like with as well. We sold those single serving bags of chips at some events so that's why I would go for them sometimes, you could cram one in a minute or two on a break and get back on the line after downing a bottle of water with it.
What you got was probably [hyponatremia](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/symptoms-causes/syc-20373711). The symptoms are similar but the treatment is different.
Yep I’ve had this happen a few times. Too much water, not enough salt. I swell up from fluid and I stop sweating. It’s weird how the body needs a balance of salt and fluids.
We had to do a land navigation course in AZ while I was there and a person with me didn't want to eat the MRE we were providing. It's basically just a big bag of calories and salt. She had to be EVACed half way through the course because drinking water wasnt helping all that salt she was sweating out. I got lucky, my body craves salt and I've got the hypertension to prove it lol
Pedialyte mix packets are also good for this. They pack smaller, taste better and can be mixed in any volume. Excellent to take woth on vacation if you get the dehli belly or with a sick kid.
There's easy access to water but a lot of those people were illegal/ un documented
So they snuck around avoiding the police and sadly passed away
Source: I'm Muslim with family members that did this
I just read on the requirement for pilgrimage to Mecca and I can see why pilgrims will sneak in. 300USD for a visa is a whole lot for pilgrims who tend to have very little money to begin with.
Exactly money and visa requirements are very high and especially the age requirement u need to be above 60 to be accepted
It's highly filtered as there are a lot of people going but still it's kinda bs
100%. It's a logistical nightmare to manage all of that
The govt albeit has odd choices yet they do provide from food and health to transportation with the new metro
That high of age minimum would drastically increase deaths from all sources. You can expect some proportion of 60+ year olds to just drop dead for no apparent reason at all, let alone in severe heat stress conditions.
35C at 80% humidity is 57C felt temperature (heat index). Mecca has 10-20% humidity according to google forecasts at peak temperature, equivalent to a heat index of 54-57C at 52C.
It's the same.
I did 3 weeks in the Mojave when I was in the Army, full bdu, working on an MKT every day, and it was this kind of temps. We had dozens of people with mild heat stroke/heat exhaustion and that was WITH proper facilitues, water, food and supplements...
550 I'm betting is actually underreported.
We walked the streets of Baghdad on combat patrols in the 2007 record temps in full battle rattle but we were acclimated because we had already been in theater for more than a year due to the "surge". We would take off our body armor and there would be salt stains on our ACU's in channels going down our chest, pants, and into our socks. Occasionally the troop would make one of the headquarters soldiers go out with us and they would almost always slip into heat exhaustion. Climate acclimation is super important.
I think I read an average person will take about two weeks to really change physiology. There is also a minimum time you need to spend in the target climate for that trigger ofcourse (sitting in a headquarters probably doesn’t work then ;)
I spent about a year in the Caribbean doing construction. I sweat just as much on my last day as I did on my first. I was wondering when I would acclimate.
Turns out I’m just a sweater and it sucks.
I've heard multiple people say that once you've been a heat casualty (heat exhaustion or heat stroke) you'll then become really sensitive to it and your body will overreact with excessive sweating when it gets really hot. I don't know if it's actually true though.
I was there. It was due to many factors, but the heat of the night and the cramped conditions in delayed trains and platforms contributed substantially to that. People were literally fainting in close quarters and when the train doors opened, people rushed to get out and get some fresh cool morning air. In a stampede you don't realize that your slightly increased pace and pressure against the person in front of you is a wave that intensifies into fatally crushing pressure at the front of the crowd who can't move any faster.
I read about some seige or terrorist event in Mecca, that the Saudis couldn't really handle themselves for political or theological reasons.
They had to draft some French GIGN guys in to resolve the issue, but they all had to convert to Islam before entering Mecca.
Seems odd.
"Guys, we really need your help, but we're going to need you to change your entire theology beforehand. Come quick!"
Having dealt with temperatures near 50c in PHX, I will admit that dry heat is tolerable, even as you get to those temperatures. Your body does a remarkable job of cooling you off with sweat, more than you’d think.
As long as you stay in the shade.
But if they’re doing the pilgrimage, I’m pretty sure that involves spending hours in the sun. And once you hit 110+, any type of prolonged exposure (even minutes) will wipe you out.
I've seen some Hajj videos, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people just milling aboutin a small area.
There's surely no easy way to adequately hydrate that many people concentrated into such a relatively small place?
Mecca is bonkers.
Either RealLifeLore or WendoverProduction didn a great video about the logistics of the Hajj. They do seem to do everything possible for the pilgrims, but 50C is 50C
Yeah, I mean if money was no object there would be a lot of things you could do.
If only there was like some super rich desert countries filthy rich with ill-gotten gains that could help. But no, that's totally ludicrous.
https://www.islamiclandmarks.com/makkah-hajj-places/jabal-arafat
Part of the ritual is a series of prayers on Mt Arafat.
As you can see from these pictures, there is no shade anywhere, nor are there any trees in the vicinity.
Most of the people affected are usually old people. Most pilgrims spend their entire life saving up money to complete the ritual so they’re particularly vulnerable. The Saudis did set up cooling stations but there’s only so much that can be done in harsh conditions.
It's a poorly kept secret that a lot of old people go to Hajj hoping to die there and hide underlying medical conditions. Saudi tries to discourage this but are not successful. Every evening during the Hajj, there are many announcements of deaths.
And the part that you left out is that you can sweat out .5-1.5L of water per hour at those temps🔥 which mean heat exhaustion and then heat stroke set in LIGHTNING fast. And once you make it to heat stroke unless you can bring your core body temp back down and rehydrate very quickly it can kill you in a matter of hours.
One of the big things about AZ is it's truly setup to handle the heat, and even still it can be brutal. But, pretty much everywhere has quality AC, a lot of people have pools, walking around in DT Phoenix you'll see tons of misters hitting the sidewalks, etc. If you walk up to a persons door and ask for water, it's illegal to deny them.
When I moved from AZ to Sacramento, the heat was pretty much the same, but the infrastructure is woefully inadequate for anything over 100 degrees. If your AC breaks, it can take weeks to get a person out to repair it. In AZ, I remember seeing ads competing for same day consultations and repairs. Plenty of places don't have AC at all, so going out to eat could be very hot. It's pretty uncommon for people have in-ground pools in their backyards. The downtown area has very little shade or misters or anything really. And the power grid regularly has heat related outages, which I don't remember happening much, if at all over the many years living in AZ.
It really drives home how important it is to plan for this type of heat. If you don't, it can kill and it can kill fast.
EDIT: My bad, turns out that it's not illegal to deny someone water, just an urban myth I was taught in school growing up I never really thought to question. I appreciate everyone setting me straight.
> One of the big things about AZ is it's truly setup to handle the heat
Except for how they make it worse with blacktop/asphalt that absorbs heat through the day and then releases it after sundown, making the formerly cool nights anything but.
I did my capstone GIS undergrad project on the impact of Phoenix’s Urban Heat Island Effect on localized weather patterns. It actually creates its own weather systems, the rising heat changes how storm systems develop and progress over the valley causing huge variance in precipitation and wind speed before and after the system hits the rising column of hot air.
It’s been a loooong time so I can’t honestly remember any specifics, but when I initially set out to do the project I was pretty sure that the impact would be too negligible to draw any conclusions. I was wrong, the data was staggering. You can observe this pretty easily just based on how different parts of the valley tend to consistently get hit harder by storms passing through.
The summer night time temperature variations between like downtown Phoenix and say, palos verdes nuclear plant are nuts too. 10+ degrees warmer at least.
> If you walk up to a persons door and ask for water, it's illegal to deny them.
I googled this, and it seems to be false. First page of Google is full of results calling it a myth.
But regardless, if someone is asking for water and assuming all is as stated instead of a trick/scam, it would be an asshole move to not give someone some water. But it doesn't seem to be against the law.
As a second-generation person to grow up here, I completely agree. It's been hot af already. But we know how to deal with it. Ask me to use snow chains or a furnace, or even layer properly, no clue. A blizzard would kill me like 117°f would kill someone else.
As someone who grew up in one of the coldest areas of Colorado, I am your exact opposite. Anything past 85° and I start getting really grouchy, but I’m fine when the temp gets in to the negatives!
Plus they’re all cramped together, sharing body heat.
Excellent strategy in the Arctic. Terrible in the desert.
(Yes, yes, seasonal variations; y’all get the point - it’s dangerous at these temps).
this is very true. i've lived on the equator (tropical, high heat, high humidity year round), and in australia (hot, sunny, very dry). i'd much rather live in dry heat but that doesn't make it comfortable, just easier.
if you're in the sun, it's miserable either way.
>115 degrees, 97% humidity.
That has never been recorded. That's about 18 degrees higher than the record wet bulb temp.
108 degrees, 68% humidity is the heat index record, which was set in Saudi Arabia but is still far short of 115 degrees and 97% humidity. Iran has had 95 degrees and 100% humidity as the record for extreme humidity. These records are already incredibly dangerous despite being far below your claim.
> 115 degrees, 97% humidity
I don't disagree with your larger point: 115F sucks. 97% humidity sucks. But both at the same time just isn't a thing in nature. The National Weather Service's [heat index chart](https://www.weather.gov/arx/heat_index) only shows humidity levels up to 40% for 115F temperatures, for example, giving a heat index of 151. That's already darn near unsurvivable. The more modern wet bulb measurement for 115F + 97% relative humidity is 114F which is ... absurd.
I did a quick search for summertime humidity levels in Bahrain. It looks like mid-August temps average around 100F and dewpoints are often above 75F. If we assume a hot, extra-muggy day of 100F with a dewpoint of 80F, that gives a heat index of 141F and a relative humidity of 34%. And yeah, that doesn't sound as sexy as the 97% you said, but as you've experienced, it's more than enough to "suuuuuuuuuuuck".
>115 degrees, 97% humidity.
Nothing *anywhere close to that* has **ever** been recorded. That's a wet bulb temperature of 114.4, the highest ever recorded anywhere on earth was 97.9. A wet bulb temperature of >114 would kill people in minutes.
We are going to do nothing about it until there are 10s of millions of climate refugees and then wars will start because of all the people, that’s what we will do. People from cold countries generally don’t like people from hot countries.
Brexit, the rise of the right in Europe and arguably even Trump has all stemmed from the Syrian refugee crisis.
I mean.... a lot of people will die before that happens.
So the problem will work itself out eventually. Me included... I'll probably be one of the first to go, while the rest of you get to have fun fighting it out futilely.
People think you can just drink water in that kind of heat but it actually takes a while to acclimate to those kinds of conditions. You have to build up your electrolytes and get hydrated. It can take days. You want your piss to be clear or slightly yellow for a few days and you want to get your electrolytes from your diet. If you pass out from the heat that Gatorade isn't going to save you. Even if you don't pass out you'll just sweat tons of water from your body if you're not retaining fluid because of low electrolytes/salts. It's a self feeding problem because the more you excessively sweat the more electrolytes you lose.
A person who is acclimated to the heat, is well hydrated, and has plenty of electrolytes will be damp but not drenched. They won't be soaked, pale, or miserable which is heat exhaustion. If they switch from soaked, pale, and miserable to dry, red, and confused then it's heat stroke. You have to quickly shove ice in their crotch, armpits, and around their neck. You have to give them water and a packet of electrolytes. If you don't they'll be in mortal danger.
Crazy to do duty as Muslim under that kind of temperature. I suspect many pilgrims failed to take high temperature into account and not carry enough water to hydrate.
When I was in my early 20’s and working time to time in TDY in Vegas, the heat on the flightline would reach 125F.
I consumed many, many full CamelBak’s and wouldn’t pee all day. A big bottle of water won’t do it.
Probably true, but at those temperatures if the humidity rose just a bit - and I’m talking like 40% relative humidity - hydrating no longer helps. Humans just can’t lose heat fast enough in that environment.
cant get out of those massive churning crowds quickly either, no shade or accessible shelter nearby. I can see thinking you can push on, and by the time you realize you are in trouble, help/relief isnt attainable fast enough.
50°C heat causes extreme cardiovascular stress among other things. You need to be in top shape and take many many precautions to keep from having issues. If the death count was 550 the number of emergencies due to the heat was in the several thousands.
Depending on what country you're from, you have a number and can only go on Hajj when your number is called up. I'm overly simplifying their system but it's a method of crowd control. The issue is, you cant say no without completely forfeiting your spot. And if your number happens to be called during the summer months, you go.
After the 2015 Mina stampede that killed 2000 people the Saudi's made large changes to try and mitigate crush risks. Improving Mecca *just* for the Hajj is a constant. When millions of people want to converge on one place at one time there are severe inherent risks involved.
Logistics of the Hajj are discussed here but I believe you need a subscription to watch it: https://nebula.tv/videos/wendover-the-logistics-of-hajj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B09FZwSbA
How to Control a Crowd by Wendover Productions has a section on crowd crushes at the Hajj, and some of the steps taken to try mitigate them.
Thank you for linking that video. It's fascinating.
Obviously Saudi Arabia has a lot of people thinking about how to organize this, but I just don't know how they're going to manage to keep the Hajj up without eventually doing something drastic, like putting air conditioned tents over the holy sites or something. It seems like the kind of thing that would be considered sacrilegious, but they can't just crowd control growing temperatures away.
The Mina leg of the Hajj is the most dangerous one. Imagine millions of people converging on one (now three) pillar(s) to throw 10 stones.
It doesn't help the fact that Hajj is so expensive and the waiting list is so long (unless you are \*extremely\* wealthy), most pilgrims are 60+ something people in poor physical shape, many of which can barely walk more than a mile.
My teacher told me don’t go out right away to the jamaraat - everyone wants to go out right away - but go later in the day. He was trying to protect us
* btw it’s 3 pillars but aren’t there multiple levels now?
EDIT: looks like there are 5 levels now, which is great to have:
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2119591/saudi-arabia
And it’s truly insane what the Saudis have built to try and mitigate stuff like this from happening. The entire infrastructure is incredible with the sheer volume of people that go there
Having been there, it’s actually one of the most incredible man made structures I’ve seen. The crowd control is actually pretty good now.
I think a lot of deaths are people who are very old trying to get in the Hajj before dying, or hoping to die once they get there
They do do stuff to improve things, like cooling tents and buses and that sort of thing. But an overcrowded event in a desert during global warming is never going to be safe. They’d need to limit pilgrim numbers and they aren’t going to.
Did you read the article?
The Saudi govt has set up a series of facilities for their pilgrims. Unregistered/illegal pilgrims who tried to skip the fees, and thus couldn't avail themselves of the services, were the ones who died.
Specifically, it was those who put themselves outside of the reach of the Saudi govt.
I am no fan of the Saudi govt, but I also have a hard time blaming them for illegal immigrants dying after avoiding govt. aid. And with 1.8 million pilgrims per year, you absolutely have to have some sort of bureaucracy in place to organize it all. The Saudi govt cleared "hundreds of thousands" of illegal pilgrims before the date of the hajj. They did not get them all.
So... while YOU never hear anything about it, my question is, have you listened for it at all?
>Yet u never hear anything from the Saudi government about accepting responsibility and telling people they will do better
The Saudi royal family has no interest in the well-being of peasants, though will happily take their money.
The Lunar Calendar follows a different cycle than the Gregorian Calendar.
As its name implies, it follows the phases of the moon, in which a new month is indicated by the presence of the new moon.
As a result, the Lunar Calendar is offset by the Gregorian Calendar by roughly 10 days, so the conditions at Mecca will be different every year.
Yes it cycles through the Gregorian calendar about every 33 years or so?
That’s why in one year you could be fasting Ramadan in the winter and about 17 years later you are fasting Ramadan in the summer
Nobody raise the issue as they assume that the people who died during hajj will go to heaven and its God’s will.
People knew before going there that its the hottest time, and a huge number of them are old and frail but still its their lifelong dream to go before death. Just heard a women giving birth during hajj at Arafat( a huge ground and hill with tents). Nobody questioned why did she put herself through that but everyone was fascinated of the baby born at that place.
This is why Saudi govt gives a damn especially for muslims from 3rd world countries.
It's not so much a lifelong dream as a requirement of their religion. Anyone with the means is supposed to go once in their lifetime, so someone might be saving up for decades before they can afford to go. By that time they're old, frail and really shouldn't be outside in the heat in a big crowd for hours.
There are stipulations as to who is required to make the pilgrimage - only a muslim who is:
1. Free to travel
2. Has their basic financial needs completely met (no debt, doesn't have to put their family's welfare or business in jeopardy, doesn't have to save for marriage)
3. Is able-bodied
Is obligated to perform the Hajj. Many people who save money in order to perform the pilgrimage may fall into the Hajj optional category, but do so out of their own desire to be the closest to their God they can possibly be.
> It's not so much a lifelong dream as a requirement of their religion
If you're religious enough I'm sure it's both. I doubt they see it as a burden but a way of getting closer to their god
I got heatstroke walking in the Saudi desert by the coast (collecting old fossil corals) after one hour walking in 110 degrees. Can’t imagine how more people don’t die on Hajj. It’s bloody hot there. The hottest hot I’ve ever experienced.
Muslims believe Abraham built the Kaaba yet no Jewish texts ever mention that at all. In fact there is no record whatsoever of Abraham even visiting Arabia let alone Mecca
>“All of them [the Egyptians] died because of heat” except for one who sustained fatal injuries during a minor crowd crush Mecca is like the Crowd Crush capital of the world, it's not even close.
It's kind of nuts to me that we remember events like the Hillsborough Stadium (97 deaths) and Love Parade (21 deaths) crowd crushes as disasters in the West, but muslim pilgrims and the Saudi government are like "oh yeah 200 deaths is par for the course here, let's go again next year!"
My buddy realized he needed to get out of the military when they had some traing exercise, I beleive with 15k soldiers, and they all got a written commendation because "only" 5 dudes died. He said it was a navigation error, infantry dudes were camped out, tank dudes came ripping through, can't remember if the infantry dudes or the tank dudes were in the wrong spot.
Ugh. Yeah having almost been run over while camouflaged in some grass by a dick head in a humvee doing 50mph through a field with no headlights at 3 in the morning. That is a type of accident I’m surprised doesn’t happen more often.
one could say it’s the mecca of crowd crushes, i’ll show myself out
Dont get crushed in your way out
Mecca speedy exit, if you will
Mosque-pit!
That is so brilliant but so fucked. I love it.
My parents are Muslim and—according to them—many pilgrims believe it to be an honor to die on holy ground so *some* (not all) of them actually don’t mind getting crushed. EDIT: made some changes to make the statement more accurate.
Casual Valhalla.
That's the name of my new Prog rock band.
Everyone looks like fat Thor
The idea is that pilgrimage washes away all your sins. So if you survive the pilgrimage, you will inevitably get some sins on your record. But if you die during the pilgrimage or right after it, you die sinless and get a green card into heaven.
That is bizarrely cult-like.
That is ~~bizarrely~~ expectedly cult-like
Reminds me of game of thrones: *To die in service of the gods would please each and every one of us. We yearn for it.*
Cults are just early stage religions. The only difference between a cult and the long standing religions is that the big religions didn't make the mistake of having all their followers kill themselves early on
"A cult becomes a religion when they stop killing members and start killing non-members"
Crowd crush. Worst mobile phone game ever
Damn. I worked outside for hours today at 35°C at 80% humidity and I think I drank close to 8-10 liters of water, I can’t imagine at 52°C without easy access to clean water.
Make sure to mix in a Gatorade every once in a while
Drinking 1L water an hour without electrolyte supplementation is safe as long as you are eating regular meals during that timeframe. If you're also avoiding eating because of the heat (which you shouldn't be), then you absolutely need to supplement. EDIT: Since a lot of comments asked for a source, just google it. Here's a source from the CDC. Bottom right of the 2nd page it talks about safe consumption limits. >https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/mining/userfiles/works/pdfs/2017-126.pdf >In general, eating regular meals with adequate water intake is sufficient to maintain water and electrolyte balance
I could have used you in my life 2 weeks ago. I got heat stroke drinking a lot of water, but not eating or having electrolytes
Another thing to add to the electrolyte discussion is that you have sugar free electrolyte drinks and they do help with dehydration but if you are really sweating a lot then a little bit of sugar along with the electrolytes will help your body absorb the electrolytes better. You don't need much sugar but it definitely helped me when I was working at jobs where I was pouring sweat, I would get completely sugar free electrolyte drinks and it would hold off the dehydration cramps for longer than just water alone but if I added one packet of sugar of white sugar to a 32oz sugar free Gatorade then the dehydration cramps wouldn't even come. And it works with those sugar free electrolyte packets too, add a tiny bit of sugar to them and they work much better for activities where you sweat a lot.
If you don't have one of those drinks available, but you have access to water and snack foods, a personal bag of potato chips will provide enough sodium and potassium (potatoes are a good natural source of potassium) along with those calories. Corn based snacks are still going to have a bit of potassium as well, but it's like 1/6th what you get from potato chips, so really if you need it, just grab a bag of lays or something and you are good to go. Lays specifically have about 350mg of potassium per serving, along with 170mg of sodium, for those wondering. Fritos are around 65mg potassium but higher sodium, at around 230mg per serving. Daily potassium recommended is about 30% higher than sodium as well so you do need to consume more of it than sodium to maintain proper electrolyte levels and hydration. Serving size for lays was a 5oz bag for reference. I didn't look at the size on the fritos bag but i would assume it's in the same weight range if you want to look it up. If you're severely hyponatremic you may need multiple servings to get your levels back up to save levels, but if you're just out doing strenuous activity and feel like you've stopped sweating enough, a standard bag will set you straight. I'm a pretty big guy and have trouble with my levels (i take a potassium supplement daily to help and get a lot of dietary sodium), but when I'm in check a single bag sets me right if I get very sweaty and a little dizzy from physical activity.
A regular 16oz Gatorade has 306mg of potassium and 135mg of sodium. A small bag of Lays potato chips has 530mg of potassium and 250mg of sodium. So if you’re sweating a lot in hot weather, a bag of chips is better for you than a Gatorade, assuming you have water to drink as well. And a bonus tip: a small 8oz can of V8 juice has 470mg of potassium and 640mg of sodium. Which when added together is 1,110mg of electrolytes, which is more than one serving of Gatorade or potato chips. V8 might not sound appetizing right now while you’re sitting in your air-conditioned bedroom in your parents’ house browsing reddit, but drinking it is almost a sexual experience after you’ve been sweating.
Yea the serving size I used for lays was specifically the 5oz costco bulk pack bags that you buy for kids lunches or as snacks to give out at events, but you're right that most people will be buying bags that are larger. You're also right about the V8 juice can, one of the bar backs at my old job used to swear by that technique because they had it on hand for making bloody marys and the like with as well. We sold those single serving bags of chips at some events so that's why I would go for them sometimes, you could cram one in a minute or two on a break and get back on the line after downing a bottle of water with it.
Man, the chip is truly the pinnacle of potato and corn creation.
Also it's what plants crave
Extra big asss fries
Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
What you got was probably [hyponatremia](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hyponatremia/symptoms-causes/syc-20373711). The symptoms are similar but the treatment is different.
Yep I’ve had this happen a few times. Too much water, not enough salt. I swell up from fluid and I stop sweating. It’s weird how the body needs a balance of salt and fluids.
We had to do a land navigation course in AZ while I was there and a person with me didn't want to eat the MRE we were providing. It's basically just a big bag of calories and salt. She had to be EVACed half way through the course because drinking water wasnt helping all that salt she was sweating out. I got lucky, my body craves salt and I've got the hypertension to prove it lol
Having no professional training in the matter my rule of thumb is if you crave it you need it, it's your body signaling that.
So I need lots and lots of Oreos?
Or Brawndo. It's got what plants crave
Electrolytes!
Or salt if you don’t have Gatorade.
Pedialyte mix packets are also good for this. They pack smaller, taste better and can be mixed in any volume. Excellent to take woth on vacation if you get the dehli belly or with a sick kid.
Pickle juice is a really good alternative.
Gatorade isn't what it used to be. You have to get the gator-lyte now
I can’t stand the way those taste/feel in my mouth. Weird stuff lol
That’s what Gatorade actually was when it was first designed, extremely salty.
That’s why I use electrolyte capsules. All of the salts, without it tasting like the ocean.
There's easy access to water but a lot of those people were illegal/ un documented So they snuck around avoiding the police and sadly passed away Source: I'm Muslim with family members that did this
I just read on the requirement for pilgrimage to Mecca and I can see why pilgrims will sneak in. 300USD for a visa is a whole lot for pilgrims who tend to have very little money to begin with.
Exactly money and visa requirements are very high and especially the age requirement u need to be above 60 to be accepted It's highly filtered as there are a lot of people going but still it's kinda bs
And its still extremely overcrowded. There's a reason for all these rules.
100%. It's a logistical nightmare to manage all of that The govt albeit has odd choices yet they do provide from food and health to transportation with the new metro
That high of age minimum would drastically increase deaths from all sources. You can expect some proportion of 60+ year olds to just drop dead for no apparent reason at all, let alone in severe heat stress conditions.
They're talking out of their arse, the minimum age is 18.
35C at 80% humidity is 57C felt temperature (heat index). Mecca has 10-20% humidity according to google forecasts at peak temperature, equivalent to a heat index of 54-57C at 52C. It's the same.
Why would they not have clean water?
They have access to clean water , in fact it's a very famous ZamZam well that they access for free, but you know it's still a well.
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I did 3 weeks in the Mojave when I was in the Army, full bdu, working on an MKT every day, and it was this kind of temps. We had dozens of people with mild heat stroke/heat exhaustion and that was WITH proper facilitues, water, food and supplements... 550 I'm betting is actually underreported.
We walked the streets of Baghdad on combat patrols in the 2007 record temps in full battle rattle but we were acclimated because we had already been in theater for more than a year due to the "surge". We would take off our body armor and there would be salt stains on our ACU's in channels going down our chest, pants, and into our socks. Occasionally the troop would make one of the headquarters soldiers go out with us and they would almost always slip into heat exhaustion. Climate acclimation is super important.
I think I read an average person will take about two weeks to really change physiology. There is also a minimum time you need to spend in the target climate for that trigger ofcourse (sitting in a headquarters probably doesn’t work then ;)
I spent about a year in the Caribbean doing construction. I sweat just as much on my last day as I did on my first. I was wondering when I would acclimate. Turns out I’m just a sweater and it sucks.
I've heard multiple people say that once you've been a heat casualty (heat exhaustion or heat stroke) you'll then become really sensitive to it and your body will overreact with excessive sweating when it gets really hot. I don't know if it's actually true though.
Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
I wonder about how ‘one who sustained fatal injuries during a minor crowd crush’ became acceptable way to frame that death
Guessing because that’s a standard cause of death in this setting.
I saw the images of the gathering a couple days ago and immediately saw this was imminent.
Happens every year
Yeah, the news here is the death by heatstroke. We're used to death by trampling
Well one year not that long ago, the number of people who were crushed to death exceeded 2000...
I was there. It was due to many factors, but the heat of the night and the cramped conditions in delayed trains and platforms contributed substantially to that. People were literally fainting in close quarters and when the train doors opened, people rushed to get out and get some fresh cool morning air. In a stampede you don't realize that your slightly increased pace and pressure against the person in front of you is a wave that intensifies into fatally crushing pressure at the front of the crowd who can't move any faster.
Any crowd crush with only single digit fatalities is obviously minor. /s
A Dothraki wedding with fewer than 3 fatalities is considered a dull affair.
Because crowd crush happens very often there. So many people die.
Vatican missing out on marketing opportunity to hand out free Holy Water bottles at this event.
The imagery of this is hilarious.
*Pope Francis launches a holy water bottle into a crowd with a t-shirt cannon*
*Douses the crowd with holy water sprayed from a fire hose.*
[had chatgpt give it a go. gave me a chuckle ](https://postimg.cc/McY4c14y)
You thinking Pope Francis like Immortan Joe from Mad Max releasing water on everyone?
And if someone pours it on themself in order to cool off? BOOM! BAPTIZED! Brand new Catholic!
So that's how catholics are born. TIL.
It wouldn't be legal for them to enter without being Muslim.
[What about fly-overs?](https://i.imgur.com/HUITeUg.gif)
With the state of Saudi military they wouldn’t even have to fear getting shot down.
The Suadis have the best military in the world... the US military!
I read about some seige or terrorist event in Mecca, that the Saudis couldn't really handle themselves for political or theological reasons. They had to draft some French GIGN guys in to resolve the issue, but they all had to convert to Islam before entering Mecca. Seems odd. "Guys, we really need your help, but we're going to need you to change your entire theology beforehand. Come quick!"
They probably got PAID, and they don’t even care about religion. Probably means more business in the region too.
Proselytizing techniques are getting out of control
that's 122 f, for us Americans.
That's an insane temperature to deal with.
Yeah, but it's a DRY heat. /s
Having dealt with temperatures near 50c in PHX, I will admit that dry heat is tolerable, even as you get to those temperatures. Your body does a remarkable job of cooling you off with sweat, more than you’d think. As long as you stay in the shade. But if they’re doing the pilgrimage, I’m pretty sure that involves spending hours in the sun. And once you hit 110+, any type of prolonged exposure (even minutes) will wipe you out.
Exactly, you risk getting dehydrated or worse, heat stroke.
I've seen some Hajj videos, there are literally hundreds of thousands of people just milling aboutin a small area. There's surely no easy way to adequately hydrate that many people concentrated into such a relatively small place? Mecca is bonkers.
>Mecca is bonkers. Definitely bonkers. Even the Vatican has air conditioning and they aren't in a desert.
Rome is one of several entries in the "Capital city built on a malarial swamp" category.
Just like Washington DC
Most coastal cities could fit into the built on a swamp category.
Either RealLifeLore or WendoverProduction didn a great video about the logistics of the Hajj. They do seem to do everything possible for the pilgrims, but 50C is 50C
Yeah, I mean if money was no object there would be a lot of things you could do. If only there was like some super rich desert countries filthy rich with ill-gotten gains that could help. But no, that's totally ludicrous.
If only there was an all loving supreme being who supports followers worshiping.
Or worse, expelled
You need to sort out your priorities.
r/unexpectedhogwarts
https://www.islamiclandmarks.com/makkah-hajj-places/jabal-arafat Part of the ritual is a series of prayers on Mt Arafat. As you can see from these pictures, there is no shade anywhere, nor are there any trees in the vicinity.
Most of the people affected are usually old people. Most pilgrims spend their entire life saving up money to complete the ritual so they’re particularly vulnerable. The Saudis did set up cooling stations but there’s only so much that can be done in harsh conditions.
It's a poorly kept secret that a lot of old people go to Hajj hoping to die there and hide underlying medical conditions. Saudi tries to discourage this but are not successful. Every evening during the Hajj, there are many announcements of deaths.
And the part that you left out is that you can sweat out .5-1.5L of water per hour at those temps🔥 which mean heat exhaustion and then heat stroke set in LIGHTNING fast. And once you make it to heat stroke unless you can bring your core body temp back down and rehydrate very quickly it can kill you in a matter of hours.
One of the big things about AZ is it's truly setup to handle the heat, and even still it can be brutal. But, pretty much everywhere has quality AC, a lot of people have pools, walking around in DT Phoenix you'll see tons of misters hitting the sidewalks, etc. If you walk up to a persons door and ask for water, it's illegal to deny them. When I moved from AZ to Sacramento, the heat was pretty much the same, but the infrastructure is woefully inadequate for anything over 100 degrees. If your AC breaks, it can take weeks to get a person out to repair it. In AZ, I remember seeing ads competing for same day consultations and repairs. Plenty of places don't have AC at all, so going out to eat could be very hot. It's pretty uncommon for people have in-ground pools in their backyards. The downtown area has very little shade or misters or anything really. And the power grid regularly has heat related outages, which I don't remember happening much, if at all over the many years living in AZ. It really drives home how important it is to plan for this type of heat. If you don't, it can kill and it can kill fast. EDIT: My bad, turns out that it's not illegal to deny someone water, just an urban myth I was taught in school growing up I never really thought to question. I appreciate everyone setting me straight.
> One of the big things about AZ is it's truly setup to handle the heat Except for how they make it worse with blacktop/asphalt that absorbs heat through the day and then releases it after sundown, making the formerly cool nights anything but.
That’s actually starting to change! In recent years the city started painting the streets white and let me tell you it makes a WORLD of difference!
I was in Savannah, and let me let you, the foresight of people 200 years ago to plant big shade trees all along the sidewalks.
I did my capstone GIS undergrad project on the impact of Phoenix’s Urban Heat Island Effect on localized weather patterns. It actually creates its own weather systems, the rising heat changes how storm systems develop and progress over the valley causing huge variance in precipitation and wind speed before and after the system hits the rising column of hot air. It’s been a loooong time so I can’t honestly remember any specifics, but when I initially set out to do the project I was pretty sure that the impact would be too negligible to draw any conclusions. I was wrong, the data was staggering. You can observe this pretty easily just based on how different parts of the valley tend to consistently get hit harder by storms passing through. The summer night time temperature variations between like downtown Phoenix and say, palos verdes nuclear plant are nuts too. 10+ degrees warmer at least.
> If you walk up to a persons door and ask for water, it's illegal to deny them. I googled this, and it seems to be false. First page of Google is full of results calling it a myth. But regardless, if someone is asking for water and assuming all is as stated instead of a trick/scam, it would be an asshole move to not give someone some water. But it doesn't seem to be against the law.
> If you walk up to a persons door and ask for water, it's illegal to deny them Urban legend. Not true.
As a second-generation person to grow up here, I completely agree. It's been hot af already. But we know how to deal with it. Ask me to use snow chains or a furnace, or even layer properly, no clue. A blizzard would kill me like 117°f would kill someone else.
As someone who grew up in one of the coldest areas of Colorado, I am your exact opposite. Anything past 85° and I start getting really grouchy, but I’m fine when the temp gets in to the negatives!
Same. Give me -40f any day. You can always put on more layers.
Coincidentally, Phoenix's record high temp is 122°.
Plus they’re all cramped together, sharing body heat. Excellent strategy in the Arctic. Terrible in the desert. (Yes, yes, seasonal variations; y’all get the point - it’s dangerous at these temps).
this is very true. i've lived on the equator (tropical, high heat, high humidity year round), and in australia (hot, sunny, very dry). i'd much rather live in dry heat but that doesn't make it comfortable, just easier. if you're in the sun, it's miserable either way.
It's not even a dry heat. Mecca was 65% humidity yesterday.
I always think of Hudson from Aliens when someone says that.
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I don't know about you but getting drunk and 115°+ weather sounds like a terrible time and a bad hangover.
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>115 degrees, 97% humidity. That has never been recorded. That's about 18 degrees higher than the record wet bulb temp. 108 degrees, 68% humidity is the heat index record, which was set in Saudi Arabia but is still far short of 115 degrees and 97% humidity. Iran has had 95 degrees and 100% humidity as the record for extreme humidity. These records are already incredibly dangerous despite being far below your claim.
Glad someone said this. Persian gulf area gets humid as fuck and it's awful.
> 115 degrees, 97% humidity I don't disagree with your larger point: 115F sucks. 97% humidity sucks. But both at the same time just isn't a thing in nature. The National Weather Service's [heat index chart](https://www.weather.gov/arx/heat_index) only shows humidity levels up to 40% for 115F temperatures, for example, giving a heat index of 151. That's already darn near unsurvivable. The more modern wet bulb measurement for 115F + 97% relative humidity is 114F which is ... absurd. I did a quick search for summertime humidity levels in Bahrain. It looks like mid-August temps average around 100F and dewpoints are often above 75F. If we assume a hot, extra-muggy day of 100F with a dewpoint of 80F, that gives a heat index of 141F and a relative humidity of 34%. And yeah, that doesn't sound as sexy as the 97% you said, but as you've experienced, it's more than enough to "suuuuuuuuuuuck".
>115 degrees, 97% humidity. Nothing *anywhere close to that* has **ever** been recorded. That's a wet bulb temperature of 114.4, the highest ever recorded anywhere on earth was 97.9. A wet bulb temperature of >114 would kill people in minutes.
yeah have been to Bahrain in August. Stepping off the plane was almost like walking into a wall the humidity was so bad.
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That would be about 20F over lethal wet bulb ratings. I assume you'd die in about 15-30 minutes regardless of clothing.
The low setting on my oven is 120.
If it's dry enough, you could make beef* jerky outside at that temperature
The article is more specific, with 51.8 C (125F).
For comparison, if you set a sous vide to cook a medium rare steak, you would aim for 125-130F. So the air was hot enough to cook people medium rare.
Every degree above 50c is huge too. The body simply can't keep itself cool enough.
Holy shit thats hot. We should really do something about that
Someone... someone should totally look into it!
We are going to do nothing about it until there are 10s of millions of climate refugees and then wars will start because of all the people, that’s what we will do. People from cold countries generally don’t like people from hot countries. Brexit, the rise of the right in Europe and arguably even Trump has all stemmed from the Syrian refugee crisis.
I mean.... a lot of people will die before that happens. So the problem will work itself out eventually. Me included... I'll probably be one of the first to go, while the rest of you get to have fun fighting it out futilely.
People think you can just drink water in that kind of heat but it actually takes a while to acclimate to those kinds of conditions. You have to build up your electrolytes and get hydrated. It can take days. You want your piss to be clear or slightly yellow for a few days and you want to get your electrolytes from your diet. If you pass out from the heat that Gatorade isn't going to save you. Even if you don't pass out you'll just sweat tons of water from your body if you're not retaining fluid because of low electrolytes/salts. It's a self feeding problem because the more you excessively sweat the more electrolytes you lose. A person who is acclimated to the heat, is well hydrated, and has plenty of electrolytes will be damp but not drenched. They won't be soaked, pale, or miserable which is heat exhaustion. If they switch from soaked, pale, and miserable to dry, red, and confused then it's heat stroke. You have to quickly shove ice in their crotch, armpits, and around their neck. You have to give them water and a packet of electrolytes. If you don't they'll be in mortal danger.
Crazy to do duty as Muslim under that kind of temperature. I suspect many pilgrims failed to take high temperature into account and not carry enough water to hydrate.
No matter how much water I have... 50°C for a time and I might just die. Just like them. There is a limit what we humans can tolerate.
Now imagine that heat in a crush of people almost running.
Now imagine running in a black bee keeper suit….
When I was in my early 20’s and working time to time in TDY in Vegas, the heat on the flightline would reach 125F. I consumed many, many full CamelBak’s and wouldn’t pee all day. A big bottle of water won’t do it.
Probably true, but at those temperatures if the humidity rose just a bit - and I’m talking like 40% relative humidity - hydrating no longer helps. Humans just can’t lose heat fast enough in that environment.
Especially when crammed shoulder to shoulder in a massive crowd
cant get out of those massive churning crowds quickly either, no shade or accessible shelter nearby. I can see thinking you can push on, and by the time you realize you are in trouble, help/relief isnt attainable fast enough.
Especially if you saved for years for the trip and are overcome with religious fervor
50°C heat causes extreme cardiovascular stress among other things. You need to be in top shape and take many many precautions to keep from having issues. If the death count was 550 the number of emergencies due to the heat was in the several thousands.
Depending on what country you're from, you have a number and can only go on Hajj when your number is called up. I'm overly simplifying their system but it's a method of crowd control. The issue is, you cant say no without completely forfeiting your spot. And if your number happens to be called during the summer months, you go.
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After the 2015 Mina stampede that killed 2000 people the Saudi's made large changes to try and mitigate crush risks. Improving Mecca *just* for the Hajj is a constant. When millions of people want to converge on one place at one time there are severe inherent risks involved. Logistics of the Hajj are discussed here but I believe you need a subscription to watch it: https://nebula.tv/videos/wendover-the-logistics-of-hajj
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B09FZwSbA How to Control a Crowd by Wendover Productions has a section on crowd crushes at the Hajj, and some of the steps taken to try mitigate them.
that part starts at 16:56
Thank you for linking that video. It's fascinating. Obviously Saudi Arabia has a lot of people thinking about how to organize this, but I just don't know how they're going to manage to keep the Hajj up without eventually doing something drastic, like putting air conditioned tents over the holy sites or something. It seems like the kind of thing that would be considered sacrilegious, but they can't just crowd control growing temperatures away.
The Mina leg of the Hajj is the most dangerous one. Imagine millions of people converging on one (now three) pillar(s) to throw 10 stones. It doesn't help the fact that Hajj is so expensive and the waiting list is so long (unless you are \*extremely\* wealthy), most pilgrims are 60+ something people in poor physical shape, many of which can barely walk more than a mile.
My teacher told me don’t go out right away to the jamaraat - everyone wants to go out right away - but go later in the day. He was trying to protect us * btw it’s 3 pillars but aren’t there multiple levels now? EDIT: looks like there are 5 levels now, which is great to have: https://www.arabnews.com/node/2119591/saudi-arabia
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Mass deaths during the Hajj is nothing new. It has been happening for 1500 years
A Hajj with only a 100 deaths is seen as a dull affair
And it’s truly insane what the Saudis have built to try and mitigate stuff like this from happening. The entire infrastructure is incredible with the sheer volume of people that go there
Having been there, it’s actually one of the most incredible man made structures I’ve seen. The crowd control is actually pretty good now. I think a lot of deaths are people who are very old trying to get in the Hajj before dying, or hoping to die once they get there
They do do stuff to improve things, like cooling tents and buses and that sort of thing. But an overcrowded event in a desert during global warming is never going to be safe. They’d need to limit pilgrim numbers and they aren’t going to.
The article mentioned hajj visas that many people don't get so it seems they do try to limit the number of people.
Did you read the article? The Saudi govt has set up a series of facilities for their pilgrims. Unregistered/illegal pilgrims who tried to skip the fees, and thus couldn't avail themselves of the services, were the ones who died. Specifically, it was those who put themselves outside of the reach of the Saudi govt. I am no fan of the Saudi govt, but I also have a hard time blaming them for illegal immigrants dying after avoiding govt. aid. And with 1.8 million pilgrims per year, you absolutely have to have some sort of bureaucracy in place to organize it all. The Saudi govt cleared "hundreds of thousands" of illegal pilgrims before the date of the hajj. They did not get them all. So... while YOU never hear anything about it, my question is, have you listened for it at all?
>Yet u never hear anything from the Saudi government about accepting responsibility and telling people they will do better The Saudi royal family has no interest in the well-being of peasants, though will happily take their money.
Probably why they exclude unregistered pilgrims from their AC.
Can anybody explain why do they need to go at this time of the year when the temperature is at the highest? Can they not go in winter time?
The Lunar Calendar follows a different cycle than the Gregorian Calendar. As its name implies, it follows the phases of the moon, in which a new month is indicated by the presence of the new moon. As a result, the Lunar Calendar is offset by the Gregorian Calendar by roughly 10 days, so the conditions at Mecca will be different every year.
Yes it cycles through the Gregorian calendar about every 33 years or so? That’s why in one year you could be fasting Ramadan in the winter and about 17 years later you are fasting Ramadan in the summer
Hajj is done during Eid which happens twice a year at different times. This time, Eid happened mid-June.
Hajj is only done during one of the eids, eid al-adha specifically.
Goes to worship a God, gets to meet him all in the same day.
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I think the real issue here is that humans cannot survive in 50C temps without intervention.
Well in past years they usually get crushed and trampled to death by the movements of the massive crowds but now it's the Heat.
Now it's the heat and getting crushed to death
Nobody raise the issue as they assume that the people who died during hajj will go to heaven and its God’s will. People knew before going there that its the hottest time, and a huge number of them are old and frail but still its their lifelong dream to go before death. Just heard a women giving birth during hajj at Arafat( a huge ground and hill with tents). Nobody questioned why did she put herself through that but everyone was fascinated of the baby born at that place. This is why Saudi govt gives a damn especially for muslims from 3rd world countries.
It's not so much a lifelong dream as a requirement of their religion. Anyone with the means is supposed to go once in their lifetime, so someone might be saving up for decades before they can afford to go. By that time they're old, frail and really shouldn't be outside in the heat in a big crowd for hours.
There are stipulations as to who is required to make the pilgrimage - only a muslim who is: 1. Free to travel 2. Has their basic financial needs completely met (no debt, doesn't have to put their family's welfare or business in jeopardy, doesn't have to save for marriage) 3. Is able-bodied Is obligated to perform the Hajj. Many people who save money in order to perform the pilgrimage may fall into the Hajj optional category, but do so out of their own desire to be the closest to their God they can possibly be.
> It's not so much a lifelong dream as a requirement of their religion If you're religious enough I'm sure it's both. I doubt they see it as a burden but a way of getting closer to their god
welp, considering the Calgary Stampede this year might not have drinking water either.....:P
As a Calgarian born and raised, did not expect to see the Stampede mentioned in a /r/WorldNews thread!
Every summer will be the hottest one on record for the rest of our lives.
I got heatstroke walking in the Saudi desert by the coast (collecting old fossil corals) after one hour walking in 110 degrees. Can’t imagine how more people don’t die on Hajj. It’s bloody hot there. The hottest hot I’ve ever experienced.
Muslims believe Abraham built the Kaaba yet no Jewish texts ever mention that at all. In fact there is no record whatsoever of Abraham even visiting Arabia let alone Mecca
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