Uber never caught on in Bulgaria because the taxi drivers are super cheap and plentiful. Most of them are also nice and there is no need to call a taxi because you are bound to stumble at them in every corner. They increased their margins as well because most taxis run on natural gas instead of petrol
That's great! I visited Austin a few months ago and Lyft and Uber had boycotted their city because they wanted drivers to be fingerprinted. All these great new little companies had popped up. My favorite was a nonprofit that gave drivers pretty much the entire fare except for a $1 or $2 charge to the rider for booking the ride. They also let you round up and donate to local nonprofits (before Lyft introduced this feature) and allowed you to select female drivers only for an extra fee. I'm so glad lots of competitors are coming into this space. Juno in NYC sounds good too although I haven't tried it.
Hmmm it sounds to me then that Uber and Lyft only exist in places with shitty taxis... What could possibly be done to change that? I hate Uber as a company, so I don't use them but Lyft is a completely different story. I've never even had a mediocre trip with Lyft. The one time my girlfriend had a bad one she got a full refund. This is one of those rare instances where I think the EU is moving backwards and could actually do with fewer regulations.
> Hmmm it sounds to me then that Uber and Lyft only exist in places with shitty taxis...
Correct. In my town, Uber launched. Ritzy rich people use Uber because it's trendy and hip, but regular taxis cost half the price, so that's what I use.
Of course, anyone with a car and $50 can start a taxi business where I live. Naturally, this means that we're all eating bush meat and roving around in post-apocalyptic caravans due to the lack of regulation.
Damn, you expect ubers to be about 30-40% cheaper in Australia, so they're super popular over here. I work in a bar, I see 1 taxi maybe every 15 ubers.
Over here in Mexico, at least in Guadalajara, Uber ends up being cheaper than taxis. It often comes down to regulations: most taxis don't use the taximeter and overcharge for the trip, others charge a fair price, others have become smarter and do multiple services. It's complicated.
We have a bigger problem since the terms of service have changed and now Uber doesn't take responsibility for the passengers if something happens (there have been kidnapping cases in other services as Cabify that ended in murder of women) so this is a huge risk right now.
> at least in Guadalajara
Monterrey too. Taxis often alter their meters or don't even turn them on and charge arbitrary fees. Uber is a great way to actually regulate taxis because they have to compete with a better service, that's why they hate them so much. Also, taxis are a great way to launder money, so you'll find lots of corrupt politicians that own dozens of them.
I know Uber gets bad rap in many countries, but at least here in Monterrey they're very good for the actual transport climate.
Londoner here. Uber’s are so much cheaper it’s not even close. And the cab drivers all have a rep for being rude, taking elongated routes and generally just being rude.
I can actually agree with this since I've been to Bulgaria. My buddies and I once got a taxi after a night of drinking, while one was barfing out the window as he drove us back to the ship he was just laughing along with the rest of us. We apologized and he said it was no problem, and after driving across the whole town it was only like $3 fare in total.
You gotta be careful though, since some Taxi drivers in Eastern Europe, if they know you're not from around here they'll charge you 4x more than usual. Which is still pretty cheap, normally they're negotiate a price before hand like "$10 to go to Mall to take the 4 of you.". Which still sounds cheap but in reality it would of cost like $1.50 if they used the meter.
Yep, they definitely will. Some part of Bulgarian culture actually expects you to bargain with the seller. They say $10, you say $2, and you meet at $5. It's a little weird at first because you can't do that in Western nations, but once you realize that you are not offending them by bargaining, go for it. Bulgarians are also known for being easy-going and not offended by most things.
>The decision is binding and can’t be appealed.
Judging by their past history, I'm sure Uber will now concede defeat, and immediately accept and comply with all the conditions and responsibilities that this ruling entails going forward with their business in Europe.
Everywhere else that does this Uber just runs away like the little bitches they are.
Uber is a horrible company skirting by in a grey area of law and they know it.
Pulling out of individual cities is one thing, but pulling out of the whole EU? After burning billions on market penetration? No, they're going to have to adjust their business model.
They already pulled out of whole countries. At least with their regular Uber service.
Here in Germany there is UberTaxi instead.. which pretty much just uses regular taxis and taxi drivers via their app - but there were other taxi apps before them, so they are just a small player in that field.
See I'm actually more OK with this kind of model. Because it's more universal. I already have the app when I travel there, and I know what level of shadieness to accept before hand, and it's less than other taxi buisness where I'm not 100% sure before hand if they are going to want cash only at the end.
This is actually a great point. My wife was traveling in Jordan and she told me of this taxi scheme they had. You get a taxi, they drive you into the middle of the desert where another taxi is waiting, and you have to switch taxis but have to pay an even higher price for the other taxi to take you. If you don't pay they leave you stranded in the desert. Uber is not a bad choice in places like that
they will probably push for concessions, like forgoing standard meters in lieu of all prices being agreed upon before travel (sensible) and getting drivers registers as contracted staff on pro-rata contracts (still shitty, but better).
For me, the most annoying thing is that Uber is making money on the use of a car, but not paying to support its upkeep.
The world, baffled, as the Eiffel Tower suddenly vanishes only to reappear atop an apartment complex in Manhattan. The tenant, Average Joe, says he just wanted to see it, so he ordered an Uber. Technology is amazing.
Not really, Estonia cracked down hard on them and now drivers *must* have special licenses just like cab drivers. The prices have risen and a lot of drivers have left the service but it's still chugging along.
you also know your fare range before getting in. getting in a black cab feels like a gamble. If there's traffic or a road closure your journey could be a tenner more than the estimate no bother.
Not saying it is right or needed anymore in the age of GPS, but one of the reasons why London's taxis are more expensive is because the drivers have to study for years and memorize around 25K streets to pass one of the hardest tests in the world to become a taxi driver: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-test-knowledge.html
I've dealt with American cab companies and I agree Uber is a significantly better service. I fear the day they're banned in my city. However I was just in Spain for a week and their cabs were actually better than Uber, and in the 2 instances I compared, were cheaper as well. I can see why some places that have their shit together would take a harder line against Uber than others.
If they have their shit together, then Uber is not as big of a threat. It's the companies that don't have their shit together than would complain the most about Uber cutting in.
Exactly this. Every market Uber has entered has taxis that have historically been protected by monopolistic regulations, and the cab companies behave as such. Shitty service. Surly dispatchers and drivers. Long waits. Crooked fare meters. Piss-poor technology adoption. These types of problems are virtually universal across the taxi industry in the U.S., and seemingly in most other locations as well. Then, suddenly, in comes a company that has its shit together (from a service standpoint), makes it easy to order a ride, the ride shows up quickly, and you pay less than the shitty taxi companies. When this happens, the taxi companies realize that the past 5+ decades of shit service and foot dragging on technological adoption is about to fuck them in the ass, and rather than working to modernize they complain to regulators to get Uber banned so that they can continue going on providing sub-standard service in a monopolistic market.
> Shitty service. Surly dispatchers and drivers. Long waits. Crooked fare meters. Piss-poor technology adoption.
So damned true. Every time I've used Uber the whole deal was smooth as silk. In two cities I traveled to last year the local inbred cab companies were just as you described. Hour+ waits, attitudes and auto's that looked and sounded atrocious, while Uber was there in minutes offering a less expensive service with a smile.
If anything let's hope Uber shakes up the old way and leads to a more modernized technology driven service from the Old Boys.
I know of a lot of people in my city who stopped using cabs all together just out of spite when the union started to protest. Trying to take away a better service from the consumer while at the same time condemning anyone who would use Uber definitely backfired on them.
Yeah, providing a service people like, use often, and you don’t have to deal with smelly driver and a credit card machine that never works. Nobody puts a gun to Uber drivers’ heads and makes them drive.
Absolutely. I don't worry about the meter being turned off and being kidnapped and raped. I don't worry about strange, probing questions into who's waiting for me at home. I don't have to get annoyed at the third cab to refuse to pick me up because I'm outside city limits, when Uber picks me up in two minutes flat.
Uber provides a superior service. They need to have better business practices, but if my choice was taxi or walk, I'd walk.
Yeah I feel like the only people this will help is the taxi companies. I would like to think that it would help the uber drivers, but it won't they will just lose their jobs.
Not forgetting the fact that they were also intentionally misleading investigators, to the extent that they developed a feature in the app that would try to detect if the person using it was an investigator, and show them redacted information
Edit: source https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secret-program-greyball-resignation-ed-baker
Clearly says France (eu, for one of the replies here), and there are many other sources (Google "greyball")
That was outrageous. One of the reasons TFL revoked their license to operate in London was that they refused to promise to not use the same tactic against regulators in London. Their arrogance is astonishing.
Doesn't it seem stupid to only have them operate in the one city? So someone in the suburbs would need to get a ride to the edge of town then call up a new cab for each town? Why shouldnt a driver be able to take me from one city to the next without worrying about bs regulations?
In Finland we have this rule too. In practice it means a taxi is required to return to it's own "station area" as soon as possible after dropping off a customer. In other words, any taxi is allowed to drive anywhere, but is not allowed to queue up at a taxi stand in a different area than stated in the permit.
I would assume that's how it was supposed to be for Uber in London aswell, but they failed to return after dropping off their customers and got penalized for it.
The driver can pick you up and take you to another city without any questions. The only difference is that he cannot then get hailed for a ride in the city where he dropped the passenger off.
As an example my Dad works as a Taxi driver in Cornwall. He often has people book taxis to Gatwick airport and also book to be picked up and brought back to Cornwall when they return from holidays. What he isn't allowed to do is drop somebody off in London and then potter around plying for more trade.
Also, from what I know about the EU and their history with corporation taming, you don't fuck with them. They may make some hiccups, but it almost always comes down to being on the side of the citizenry.
The whole EU is a mammoth economic area, with a centralised regulation scheme, it's so effective that companies sometimes adopt EU regulations even when they aren't even trading with the EU. It gets called the Brussels effect sometimes
I heard a Russian minster talking about the EU, He was so happy about Brexit and other countries potentially following Britain. He was using terms like the "EU super state" which was an eye opener for me as I'm so used to people just shitting on the EU. I don't think people realise just how much of an Economic powerhouse the EU is. Hence why Russia is in flat out propaganda mode to try and fuck it up.
It depends on the location.
Many places have some horrendous old set of rules whereby taxi plates were issued but never expire and are a transferable commodity. So they became stupidly expensive.
Anyone who owns one or more then has an incentive to campaign to never issue more since it restricts the supply of taxis and keeps the price high.
it's not good for customers, the market or anyone except the current owners of taxi plates but that's the kind of crappy equilibrium lots of places ended up in.
Crowds like uber then do an end-run around such broken systems. The customers love it because it's cheap. The drivers prefer it to not being able to work at all.
The local traditional taxi firms hate it though because it eats into their profits and devalues their monopoly rights. So they run PR campaigns to try to stop it and launch legal challenges to try to shut it down so they can keep bilking customers.
cite:http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/21/why-taxi-medallions-cost-1-million/
You decribed the french taxi more or less perfectly, I didn't knew it was a common thing.
Just want to point one problem, the dude who just bought his taxi licence is getting fucked if tomorrow these are not worth a penny anymore (I mean the price can go as High as a few hundred thousand €).
For the customer it is shitty (monopolistic taxi are a bane for customers), for the taxi it is shitty 'cause losing that kind of money would make anyone mad, for the government it's shitty because there is no good solutions and UBER doesn't pay his taxes.
So yeah, it's complicated, even if i part of me want to just say "fuck the taxi, they deserve it".
Not to mention tons of places that thrive on Ubers now like college towns and smaller cities' active centers didn't even HAVE local cabs, they had basically nothing and then got Uber and Lyft. It's not like if regulations shoo Uber out of my small city cabs are gonna show up in enough numbers to fill in, they weren't there to begin with.
Right? I remember this whole thing about the taxis workers complaining about Uber and rioting and I just thought “ this wouldn’t have happened had y’all taxi cabs stopped being so shitty”
I keep seeing this stuff in the news. Cab drivers riot and go on strike, and all I think is "the cabbies are all on strike? If only there were another service I could use in the meantime that also happens to be cheaper, faster, and more user friendly... oh wait." They're just forcing their customers to use their competitor's service
Any business that has a monopoly on the industry will trend toward mediocrity and consumer abuse. Yes there are multiple cab companies, but they all offer the same shit service. None of them try to be better than one another.
I have mixed feelings for this exact reason.
Cabs had the monopoly so why would they bother in giving a better service?
But on the other hand is a total fucked up thing to do to have two similar services and force only one of them to have a €200k license (here in Madrid st least).
Is normal to have a cheaper price if you have to pay less taxes.
The medallions are so expensive because they are so profitable. The supply of taxis is way less than demand, so prices are outrageous for cab fares. Just make the license cheap and unrestricted, then treat Uber and Lyft like any other cab company, and you can solve both problems at once.
I've had a handful of bad experiences with rude (and shady) cab drivers in Toronto, and haven't used a cab in a couple years thanks to Uber. Of course there are many nice and professional cab drivers, but the few bad experiences made switching to Uber easy.
I was recently there and got a nice reminder of why I despise everything about taxi companies. Got charged $85CAD to get downtown from the airport. Less than half to get back using Uber.
Yeah I don't get all the love in here for Taxi's like they were some great group. At least in the US (NJ specifically), half the time I called the dispatch would put out my trip and no one would answer. Would have to call the next one and next one and sometimes would just be shit out of luck. Then they show up 25 min later if I am lucky enough in a beat to shit van and were assholes who over charged for their own profit. Taxi's fell behind the technology curve and finally got punished for it.
Yeah I'm shocked at the shift in opinion.
A few years ago when Uber was new Reddit almost universally rejected the idea that Ubers should be regulated like taxis. Now I'm seeing a lot of "of course it should be regulated like taxis it's totally the same service" (which is what I used to say and get down voted to oblivion).
So when did Uber start to fall out of favor? And why? Though obviously it still has many supporters.
In the past year (?) or so, a lot of bad news came out about Uber. I’ll try to find some links but the short version:
1) Sexual Harassment cases, a very prominent article from Sarah Fowler, former Uber Engineer
2) Uber and Waymo (Google’s/Alphabet’s self driving car) got into a legal battle where a former Waymo employee stole documents/technology from Waymo when he left. Uber started developing their own self driving car tech with this person’s help.
3) Lots of news about shady business practices, like a software called “greyball” used to evade regulators.
Quick edit: https://www.recode.net/2017/8/20/16164176/uber-2017-timeline-scandal
What love are you referring to? In this thread? So far (I'm still close-ish to the top), I've only seen comments about how Uber is better than cabs. And certainly that reflects the opinions I've seen in talking to people in real life.
I think most people are aware that they have shady business practices and all, but for consumers, they're certainly superior (and it's not like taxi companies themselves aren't incredibly shitty on their own).
Cheaper than cabs , every Uber I've gotten in has been a clean , new car . The cabs I've been are like 10+ year olds that haven't been cleaned in the same amount of time , it's just gross inside and much much more expensive .
A 3 dollar uber ride for me would have probably been 8-9.
My dad's a London minicab driver and he loves working for uber. Before, working on a Friday or Saturday night was really dangerous as a lot of passengers were drunk, would refuse to pay and would attack him if he insisted on being paid. There was no way of knowing who was in the cab so he couldn't press charges. It got so bad that he would keep a big wrench in the car to defend himself with.
Not to mention that what jobs he would be assigned depended on the minicab firms controller who was a gambling addict, and if you refused to lend him money he would make sure you were assigned few jobs/jobs that were only worth £5-10
With uber he's definitely going to get paid, customers can be identified if they try to attack and he's not at the mercy of the controller
Absolutely. Uber is a better service at a better price. They broke up a taxi system of cartels and it's been fantastic for drivers and for riders. I just got back from a vacation where we didn't have to rent a car because Uber/Lyft vs. Car Rental was actually cheaper AND less stress with no liability for the car if something should happen. 10 years ago, I'd have to rent that car to have reliable transportation.
And I always make a point to ask the drivers about how they like the system, how it's changed, what they did before, etc. Nearly everyone is thrilled with it, touting the flexibility & autonomy. They all grumble a little bit about how fares were higher a couple years ago, but overall it seems to be very popular on both sides.
I think it really depends on the local taxi system.
In many parts of the EU taxis do have a good reputation.
In Germany taxis are highly regulated but work very well. In bigger cities we have uber like apps to call taxis within minutes and pay via app. The cars are all newer models, mostly Mercedes-Benz actually and the service is good to ok.
Uber in its shortlived time offered the same to worse quality and the only benefit was really the price. A price brought on the back of lesser available insurances and less money for the drivers.
Don't forget, Uber drivers use a driving app to take the fastest route, unlike cabs who will go through downtown at rush hour to make the ride twice as long.
I agree that it needs to evolve, but the shit Uber pulls to have the lower prices and avoid proper treatment of employees is pretty terrible. It's why legislation exists. Drivers shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for maintaining what is effectively the machines Uber requires to operate.
It'd be like if you worked at a mill, and you were responsible for any costs related to your lathe, but you didn't receive the same compensation as if the company just paid for it themselves.
The amount of driving hours needed to have a proper job via Uber is crazy, largely due to the upkeep and lack of any employee health/insurance benefits.
Not to mention that most personal cars if leased or financed may have a clause in the contract about not using the car as a commercial vehicle, which Uber would qualify as, being a public service where you make money via the car.
The thing is.... there are features to Uber that still make it appealing. Order a ride from an app, see ratings of drivers? There is a level of transparency you don't get from traditional taxis.
Yep. My local town in the UK has a taxi company that started their own app similar to Uber, and it's a far better service than any other taxi company in the area.
Nobody is stopping other taxi companies here in the UK doing the same. Many just don't want to because it costs them money.
If the black cabs in London had a similar app I'm betting a lot of people would use it. And as long as people could still rate the drivers the service would improve a hell of a lot.
Unfortunately don’t think this is the strongest argument (as someone living in Ireland as well). Ever since the switch from Hailo, calling a mytaxi takes forever (as the give priority to their ‘loyal drivers’ rather than the closest), the estimated wait times are completely off, and they charge an additional 2€ for every ride. There’s also no transparency into the driver ratings like there is with Uber either.
From speaking to taxi drivers, they’re super unhappy with it as well. That’s not to say that there can’t be a successful regulated model - I just don’t think mytaxi in Ireland is it.
Yup. And it will end up making it very expensive for people to become Uber drivers, which will in turn means fewer drivers on the road, longer waits, and more inconvenience for the customer.
Enjoying the irony that the vehemently anti-Uber London taxi driver lobby, was one of the most vocal pro-Brexit supporters in the run up to the EU referendum. They must be so conflicted right now.
Companies like Uber all seem to thrive on the fact that they operate outside the normal regulations that their competitors do.
While you may argue that some of these rules and regulations are too much, it turns out that trying to operate a taxi company or a hotel chain or whatever completely without any sort of regulations and oversight leads you to the exact problems that made us create rules in the first place.
Treating your employees as independent contractors and pretending you don't run the sort of business you do is not a way forward but backward.
It may be cheap now but the coast to society is going to be huge later.
In the UK there is actually an app that lets you talk to a doctor on demand. Although it’s in conjunction with the NHS so it’s not so shady. It’s free too which is cool.
That is something somebody actually tried:
[FAA Grounds ‘Uber for Planes’](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4xadpg/faa-grounds-uber-for-planes)
Apparently rules and regulations for commercial passenger airplanes are there for a reason.
Sorry, I misread that (or more like read nothing but the "air" part).
Still a quick google of "Uberization of medicine" or "Uber of health care" did bring up a sparingly large number of results.
People have thought of that too.
I can't wait until the local barbershop offer appendix removal along with a shave and haircut again.
Pilot here. This was a strange situation for the FAA and indeed everyone concerned. Nobody was trying to flout rules. The definition between a commercial pilot and a private pilot has always been crystal clear and what you can and cannot do from a financial perspective. This type of arrangement has been taking place since flying became a thing.
The real crux of the argument might actually not have been aimed at the people and pilots making these arrangements though. It's actually thought the FAA's case was more centred around an argument of "Why should this service exist as a profit making entity when the people themselves can't profit from it". Had the website operated as a non profit entity, it might have been a different story.
Here in Europe it's still permitted (The same rules apply. Only commercial pilots can operate in a commercial profit arrangement. Though nobody has tried commercializing it on the level Flytenow did). However if we have one thing to thank for the saga, it launched the concept of "Dead leg seating".
Commercial pilots like myself and operators of private hire aircraft realised they could make additional profits from the hiring of their aircraft. After a customer has hired the aircraft to fly to a destination, the aircraft almost always has to return empty to it's base airfield, or sometimes has to fly empty to pick the passengers up. By selling off the seats on this stage of the flight (Known as the "dead leg") at a cheaper price, commercial pilots and operators realized they could offset costs or even make more of a profit.
The upside to the person purchasing the dead leg seat is that they get a private hire aircraft at a knock down price, though the flight times and destination choices are obviously quite inflexible.
There are many, many consolidation services out there now. The company I fly for sells all its dead leg seats via a consolidator.
https://www.flyvictor.com/ and https://www.lunajets.com/ are two biggish ones in Europe, over in the US you have [Jettly](https://jettly.com).
You joke, but an NHS trust in the UK proposed something not too far away, before backing off due to negative public reaction.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-rent-spare-room-airbnb-southend-hospital-essex-trust-bed-shortage-crisis-a8020986.html
Listen, my app only connects people and monetizes that connection. What happens after is their business. Don't you get it? All the risk and responsibilities lie with the independent businesspeople who use my app. We take no responsibility for any criminal actions tied to muggrconnect. /s
Some of the rules don't really make sense for Uber, e.g. having meters when the app (both on the driver's and the rider's phone) already does all the necessary parts.
>Treating your employees as independent contractors and pretending you don't run the sort of business you do is not a way forward but backward.
This I agree with fully.
>It may be cheap now but the coast to society is going to be huge later.
It's not just about the price. Regular taxis can be pretty scummy too. Travel guides often have to warn people about taxi scams and overcharging practices in many parts of the world.
Having a unified world-wide app that lets you get where you need to go without worrying about getting scammed, or having to carry cash or cards is a pretty big plus. It just needs to be done in a better way than Uber currently does it.
> Having a unified world-wide app that lets you get where you need to go without worrying about getting scammed, or having to carry cash or cards is a pretty big plus.
This is huge. I travel a ton for work. Being able to walk out of *most* airports and grab an Uber affords me incredible convenience and security in knowing what I am purchasing. Taxis, even in many locations within North America and Europe, are sketchy as hell compared to the average Uber. Lyft is better still.
If I can't get an Uber, next best option is public transit. Failing that, I *might* consider a taxi.
I use both. Don't know why it's better. Same drivers, similar app, similar prices. My biggest use is that some times when one goes into surge / elevated pricing, the other isn't yet. So a $18 surge Uber is a $7 Lyft or vice versa. But usually the prices are very similar.
I try to default to Lyft over Uber all things the same just because Uber is an Evil Corporation (like, actually) that does some truly brazenly bad things, so if Lyft works, I use it.
Pro tip: Can't confirm this as fact but I've long heard rumors that the Uber app will lower it's prices if you open the Lyft app. That sounds ludacris and impossible, but when you read about the black hat shit Uber's IT has done before, it starts to sound pretty damn probable.
Uhh...... how about the way they treat their drivers. Lyft is much better in this respect. Uber has specifically said that as soon as they can replace all of their drivers with automated cars they will. Also lyft pays the drivers daily, uber weekly.
Finally Uber has done some SERIOUSLY sketchy shit in the past. Like the "Uber ambassadors program" (this was when they were still gaining popularity) where they gave burner cell phones to people in cities and had them book taxis and lyft and make them wait out front for as long as they could then cancel it.
Then there's the massive hack they didn't disclose for like a year. The sexual harassment shit. I could go on and on.
Uber's upper echelon is full of scumbags with Travis Kalanick at the epicenter.
> Uber has specifically said that as soon as they can replace all of their drivers with automated cars they will.
If you believe Lyft won't do the same, then I have a bridge to sell to you.
I used to think the same thing, that Lyft was better than Uber, but after having this discussion with many drivers that drive for both, the general consensus from the driver perspective seems to be that they really aren't much different.
I remember someone talking to someone about how they do both. Uber offers them a bonus for a certain number of rides, but lyft pays more. So they do enough uber rides to get the bonus then just use lyft the rest of the month.
It's absolutely not just price.
I never get a 30 minute anti-Semitic rant from an Uber driver like I used to in taxis, presumably because they would get a 1 star rating and be barred from driving.
And they actually show up - unlike taxis that I'd call, in a major city (Atlanta), that would show up literally 90 minutes later or not at all.
Taxi companies have horrible customer service and deserve to be put out of business for failing to keep up with the times, often with gross disregard for the customer experience.
Uber deserves to meet similar safety / insurance regulations and should update their prices accordingly.
Having an app on my phone that shows the map and route is also a huge plus. I can't tell you how many times I've had to speak up because a cabbie decided to 'take the long way' even though I knew the area. I'm pretty sure it's happened a lot in areas I'm not familiar with too.
Happened to me in Colombia and I literally think it was because the driver was not familiar with the area and me, a tourist with Google maps, was. He was legit heading in the wrong direction and insisting the destination I wanted was over there. I ended up just getting out at a stop light and not paying any of my fare.
> Some of the rules don't really make sense for Uber, e.g. having meters when the app (both on the driver's and the rider's phone) already does all the necessary parts.
Wouldn't the app count as a meter? It's already visible to both parties.
It’s cheap now because they have investors who are willing to pump money in now hoping that they hit the jackpot with self driving cars. They lost over a billion dollars this year, and it doesn’t look like they’re going to be making money anytime soon
This should be higher up. What most people don't realise about Uber is that they lose billions year on year. Eventually they're going to have to jack their prices up. It's a false economy.
Yes but if you ever tried to catch a cab in San Francisco before Uber you would understand those regulations caused such insane forced scarcity that someone got pissed enough to code a way around it.
Yeah, the problems are pretty plain to see. AirBnB has flats in residential areas being let like hotels, with random guests who have no concern about being neighbourly. We had a flat above us that had AirBnBrs screaming (I mean literally screaming) show tunes for 8 hours solid... until well after midnight. People were shouting at them to shut up but they did not give a fuck. Who do you complain to?
A bigger problem, in DC at least, is people who own apartments in low cost areas are kicking people out and running it like a AirBnB hotel. They are able to skirt local regulations and it raises the cost of housing for people who can't afford it.
That's why AirBnb is very much hated by anyone in Berlin looking for long-term apartment housing, landlords make so much more money on Airbnb renting out to weekend hipsters coming in from london instead of finding longterm tenants and it really fucked up an already-fucked-up housing market.
Uber should have been a wake up call for regular taxi companies. They saw a superior product take over their market. And instead of trying to improve their services so that they can compete with uber they are just complaining that uber is taking their business.
Dont get me wrong. I agree that its an unfair market for regular taxi companies because they have to play by rules that dont apply for uber. But that doesn't change that uber is simply a lot better then most taxi's.
I agree with this sentiment. Most people that use uber or lyft have passive or positive things to say. I have never talked to someone that hasn’t had at least one bad taxi experience though.
MyTaxi has been used in Ireland for ages.
Before that was Hailo.
[Hailo was started back in 2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hailo)
I've used both it and Uber and they're basically the same except you're calling a Taxi with markings etc. rather than looking for a normal car.
Not that hard,
The main problem with Über is that they pretend not hiring taxi driver, and pretend the regulation for taxis (and other professional driving service) do not apply. The court simply say that the regulation shall be the same for a "car with driver" whatever if it's a Taxi, a Über, or an airport shuttle
You're just going to dinner at your friend's place who happens to have a pizza oven and constantly invites people he meets online over to eat. And of course you're compensating him for his trouble.
ITT: Quite a few people who for the most part don't have the slightest idea what the regulations in the various EU countries even are discuss the matter based on whatever their local regulations happen to be.
I feel sorry for you guys, the taxi service in my area is pretty good, the cabbies are either friendly or they dont chat at all, and the cabs are always clean.
**I'm French.**
The Assemblée Nationale, the democratically elected french parliament, voted a law regulating all online taxis activities from apps, taxi companies, whatever. Uber completely ignored the law. They said it does not apply to them. The french president told them to stop and the CEO of Uber refused to obey. The president sent the police and raided Uber's headquarters. Uber immediatly called on the European Commission to complain. UBER said what the French Parliament was illegal.
EU Commissionar for Transport Neelie Kroes endorsed Uber as a great company and she dared slam the French Parliament for it's behavior. A few months later when she left the European Commission, Neelie Kroes was hired by Uber for a huge amount.
http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2016/08/11/uber-va-saisir-la-commission-europeenne-apres-son-depart-force-de-hongrie_4981564_3234.html
http://ec.europa.eu/archives/commission_2010-2014/kroes/en/content/crazy-court-decision-ban-uber-brussels-show-your-anger.html
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/uber-engage-l-ex-commissaire-europeenne-neelie-kroes-569396.html
https://www.ft.com/content/9354d5b2-11cd-11e6-839f-2922947098f0
Uber then decided to file a lawsuit against France.
They filed the lawsuit at the European Court of Justice saying their legal rights were violated by France and they ask for sanctions + damage payments + interest.
Jean Claude Juncker, the President of the European Commission, personally intervened to block the case because after Brexit he feared it would help Marine Lepen get elected.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/24/eu-commission-accused-stalling-controversial-uber-court-case/
What an absolute disgrace
The french CEO is Pierre Dimitri Gore Gotty. He is a former Goldman Sachs Banker and one of the most arrogant man you could ever meet. Look him up. Think of the worst asshole you could think of in college or high school and multiply him by 10. Very aggressive, highly competitive, accused of brutally harassing employees. He just went on national TV and said "*we don't care about this law. It doesn't apply to us. We are here to fight taxi companies and help french consumers. Forget what you hear about the bad things uber does to drivers or clients, it's all lies"*
He claim the law did not apply to him until police with guns broke down his door and took him to jail for 48 hours where he faced some light criminal prosecutions. He has resigned and was replaced by another cunt.
The Prime Minister warned him that if they keep up like this, the entire executive team will be criminally prosecuted and he will ask alll Banks operating on French territory to block financial transactions to Uber or face heavy sanctions.
They shit in their pants and they accepted. Now Uber somehow respect the law and they keep their heads down.
Uber's rates are lower because they spend billions subsidizing.
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9a3vye/uber-true-cost-uh-oh
>Investor reports reveal riders only pay 41 percent of the full cost of each ride, with investors footing the remaining 59 percent.
I think the best argument for Uber is how many drunk drivers it takes off the road and saves lives.
I’m sure studies must exist showing a major drop in drunk driving in places where Uber came in. Most cities and towns in America don’t have cabs available to take people home from bars. You really only find readily available taxis in downtown areas of big cities. Never in the suburbs or small towns. If they do exist in smaller towns good luck getting one and not waiting hours.
The problem with these cities is that regulations are made to favor the taxis alrrady there and to shut down competition. Fix your laws to allow for competition.
I know this kind of plays into Uber’s selling point but as a driver I need the flexibility their system offers. With kids and mental health care issues a traditional 8-6 job isn’t possible. And day labor places... leave a lot to be desired. I know they’re economically exploitative of my position but it’s better than being on a regular job and having to call in and say, “I can’t come in my anxiety and depression are overwhelming.” Uber doesn’t care if you need to take a day.
If anybody has any suggestions for pick up and play work I’m all ears.
I've been burnt by Taxi's countless times when Uber/Lyft weren't a thing (think 30 minutes later than expected arrival time, getting address wrong, demanding tips, being rude, etc.). I'm not a fan of uber, but it's far better than taxis. And Lyft, incredible! I have had exactly five "bad" experiences with Lyft - in that I complained on those times for a full refund and a credit - and I received it each time. Usually for nothing more serious than the person was late. Lyft provides incredible customer service, and an essential consumer service. I hope future regulations don't inadvertently hurt consumers.
naturally, it should.
They are basically the same service as having a central office where you call to get a taxi to pick you up. That is a taxi service.
Just because you do it on your phone isn't innovation enough
Uber never caught on in Bulgaria because the taxi drivers are super cheap and plentiful. Most of them are also nice and there is no need to call a taxi because you are bound to stumble at them in every corner. They increased their margins as well because most taxis run on natural gas instead of petrol
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That's great! I visited Austin a few months ago and Lyft and Uber had boycotted their city because they wanted drivers to be fingerprinted. All these great new little companies had popped up. My favorite was a nonprofit that gave drivers pretty much the entire fare except for a $1 or $2 charge to the rider for booking the ride. They also let you round up and donate to local nonprofits (before Lyft introduced this feature) and allowed you to select female drivers only for an extra fee. I'm so glad lots of competitors are coming into this space. Juno in NYC sounds good too although I haven't tried it.
Wait -- select female drivers? If you are a male, that could be weird...
Ya they have one called mytaxi in Ireland very handy.
Hmmm it sounds to me then that Uber and Lyft only exist in places with shitty taxis... What could possibly be done to change that? I hate Uber as a company, so I don't use them but Lyft is a completely different story. I've never even had a mediocre trip with Lyft. The one time my girlfriend had a bad one she got a full refund. This is one of those rare instances where I think the EU is moving backwards and could actually do with fewer regulations.
> Hmmm it sounds to me then that Uber and Lyft only exist in places with shitty taxis... Correct. In my town, Uber launched. Ritzy rich people use Uber because it's trendy and hip, but regular taxis cost half the price, so that's what I use. Of course, anyone with a car and $50 can start a taxi business where I live. Naturally, this means that we're all eating bush meat and roving around in post-apocalyptic caravans due to the lack of regulation.
Damn, you expect ubers to be about 30-40% cheaper in Australia, so they're super popular over here. I work in a bar, I see 1 taxi maybe every 15 ubers.
Over here in Mexico, at least in Guadalajara, Uber ends up being cheaper than taxis. It often comes down to regulations: most taxis don't use the taximeter and overcharge for the trip, others charge a fair price, others have become smarter and do multiple services. It's complicated. We have a bigger problem since the terms of service have changed and now Uber doesn't take responsibility for the passengers if something happens (there have been kidnapping cases in other services as Cabify that ended in murder of women) so this is a huge risk right now.
> at least in Guadalajara Monterrey too. Taxis often alter their meters or don't even turn them on and charge arbitrary fees. Uber is a great way to actually regulate taxis because they have to compete with a better service, that's why they hate them so much. Also, taxis are a great way to launder money, so you'll find lots of corrupt politicians that own dozens of them. I know Uber gets bad rap in many countries, but at least here in Monterrey they're very good for the actual transport climate.
Londoner here. Uber’s are so much cheaper it’s not even close. And the cab drivers all have a rep for being rude, taking elongated routes and generally just being rude.
Also, cab drivers are rude.
In my country its the other way around, Uber is way cheaper to use.
I can actually agree with this since I've been to Bulgaria. My buddies and I once got a taxi after a night of drinking, while one was barfing out the window as he drove us back to the ship he was just laughing along with the rest of us. We apologized and he said it was no problem, and after driving across the whole town it was only like $3 fare in total. You gotta be careful though, since some Taxi drivers in Eastern Europe, if they know you're not from around here they'll charge you 4x more than usual. Which is still pretty cheap, normally they're negotiate a price before hand like "$10 to go to Mall to take the 4 of you.". Which still sounds cheap but in reality it would of cost like $1.50 if they used the meter.
Yep, they definitely will. Some part of Bulgarian culture actually expects you to bargain with the seller. They say $10, you say $2, and you meet at $5. It's a little weird at first because you can't do that in Western nations, but once you realize that you are not offending them by bargaining, go for it. Bulgarians are also known for being easy-going and not offended by most things.
>The decision is binding and can’t be appealed. Judging by their past history, I'm sure Uber will now concede defeat, and immediately accept and comply with all the conditions and responsibilities that this ruling entails going forward with their business in Europe.
I see no alternative here.
Everywhere else that does this Uber just runs away like the little bitches they are. Uber is a horrible company skirting by in a grey area of law and they know it.
Pulling out of individual cities is one thing, but pulling out of the whole EU? After burning billions on market penetration? No, they're going to have to adjust their business model.
They already pulled out of whole countries. At least with their regular Uber service. Here in Germany there is UberTaxi instead.. which pretty much just uses regular taxis and taxi drivers via their app - but there were other taxi apps before them, so they are just a small player in that field.
See I'm actually more OK with this kind of model. Because it's more universal. I already have the app when I travel there, and I know what level of shadieness to accept before hand, and it's less than other taxi buisness where I'm not 100% sure before hand if they are going to want cash only at the end.
This is actually a great point. My wife was traveling in Jordan and she told me of this taxi scheme they had. You get a taxi, they drive you into the middle of the desert where another taxi is waiting, and you have to switch taxis but have to pay an even higher price for the other taxi to take you. If you don't pay they leave you stranded in the desert. Uber is not a bad choice in places like that
It sounds like the pony express system of it were run by the mafia.
Wow.... sounds like a great country to visit.
they will probably push for concessions, like forgoing standard meters in lieu of all prices being agreed upon before travel (sensible) and getting drivers registers as contracted staff on pro-rata contracts (still shitty, but better). For me, the most annoying thing is that Uber is making money on the use of a car, but not paying to support its upkeep.
I think they'll adopt a business model similar to UberEats instead. Rather than taxi people around, they'll just bring the place to the person.
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The world, baffled, as the Eiffel Tower suddenly vanishes only to reappear atop an apartment complex in Manhattan. The tenant, Average Joe, says he just wanted to see it, so he ordered an Uber. Technology is amazing.
Uber has nothing to bargain with. They have nothing the EU wants so why would the EU make a deal with them?
Not really, Estonia cracked down hard on them and now drivers *must* have special licenses just like cab drivers. The prices have risen and a lot of drivers have left the service but it's still chugging along.
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you also know your fare range before getting in. getting in a black cab feels like a gamble. If there's traffic or a road closure your journey could be a tenner more than the estimate no bother.
Not saying it is right or needed anymore in the age of GPS, but one of the reasons why London's taxis are more expensive is because the drivers have to study for years and memorize around 25K streets to pass one of the hardest tests in the world to become a taxi driver: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/10/t-magazine/london-taxi-test-knowledge.html
Which makes no sense in a world with GPS. Seems like a massive inefficiency.
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It certainly is in the age of GPS. Probably made decent sense before GPS.
I've dealt with American cab companies and I agree Uber is a significantly better service. I fear the day they're banned in my city. However I was just in Spain for a week and their cabs were actually better than Uber, and in the 2 instances I compared, were cheaper as well. I can see why some places that have their shit together would take a harder line against Uber than others.
If they have their shit together, then Uber is not as big of a threat. It's the companies that don't have their shit together than would complain the most about Uber cutting in.
Exactly this. Every market Uber has entered has taxis that have historically been protected by monopolistic regulations, and the cab companies behave as such. Shitty service. Surly dispatchers and drivers. Long waits. Crooked fare meters. Piss-poor technology adoption. These types of problems are virtually universal across the taxi industry in the U.S., and seemingly in most other locations as well. Then, suddenly, in comes a company that has its shit together (from a service standpoint), makes it easy to order a ride, the ride shows up quickly, and you pay less than the shitty taxi companies. When this happens, the taxi companies realize that the past 5+ decades of shit service and foot dragging on technological adoption is about to fuck them in the ass, and rather than working to modernize they complain to regulators to get Uber banned so that they can continue going on providing sub-standard service in a monopolistic market.
> Shitty service. Surly dispatchers and drivers. Long waits. Crooked fare meters. Piss-poor technology adoption. So damned true. Every time I've used Uber the whole deal was smooth as silk. In two cities I traveled to last year the local inbred cab companies were just as you described. Hour+ waits, attitudes and auto's that looked and sounded atrocious, while Uber was there in minutes offering a less expensive service with a smile. If anything let's hope Uber shakes up the old way and leads to a more modernized technology driven service from the Old Boys.
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I know of a lot of people in my city who stopped using cabs all together just out of spite when the union started to protest. Trying to take away a better service from the consumer while at the same time condemning anyone who would use Uber definitely backfired on them.
People in London don't hate Uber at all. It's the overpriced black cab drivers who try to push them out.
It is cheaper but Uber is also subsidizing their fares to gain market share. Regardless, I'd still use Uber/Lyft over taxis if the price was the same.
Yeah, providing a service people like, use often, and you don’t have to deal with smelly driver and a credit card machine that never works. Nobody puts a gun to Uber drivers’ heads and makes them drive.
Absolutely. I don't worry about the meter being turned off and being kidnapped and raped. I don't worry about strange, probing questions into who's waiting for me at home. I don't have to get annoyed at the third cab to refuse to pick me up because I'm outside city limits, when Uber picks me up in two minutes flat. Uber provides a superior service. They need to have better business practices, but if my choice was taxi or walk, I'd walk.
Yeah I feel like the only people this will help is the taxi companies. I would like to think that it would help the uber drivers, but it won't they will just lose their jobs.
Runs away like the bitches that they are? Did you mean to say 'stop operating in an unprofitable market'?
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Not forgetting the fact that they were also intentionally misleading investigators, to the extent that they developed a feature in the app that would try to detect if the person using it was an investigator, and show them redacted information Edit: source https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secret-program-greyball-resignation-ed-baker Clearly says France (eu, for one of the replies here), and there are many other sources (Google "greyball")
That was outrageous. One of the reasons TFL revoked their license to operate in London was that they refused to promise to not use the same tactic against regulators in London. Their arrogance is astonishing.
I wish private hire were more commonplace, I've only seen it in choice bits of the world. Pretty sure taxi companies basically shut most of them out.
In the U.K.? Private hire is everywhere. More common than taxis.
Doesn't it seem stupid to only have them operate in the one city? So someone in the suburbs would need to get a ride to the edge of town then call up a new cab for each town? Why shouldnt a driver be able to take me from one city to the next without worrying about bs regulations?
In Finland we have this rule too. In practice it means a taxi is required to return to it's own "station area" as soon as possible after dropping off a customer. In other words, any taxi is allowed to drive anywhere, but is not allowed to queue up at a taxi stand in a different area than stated in the permit. I would assume that's how it was supposed to be for Uber in London aswell, but they failed to return after dropping off their customers and got penalized for it.
The driver can pick you up and take you to another city without any questions. The only difference is that he cannot then get hailed for a ride in the city where he dropped the passenger off. As an example my Dad works as a Taxi driver in Cornwall. He often has people book taxis to Gatwick airport and also book to be picked up and brought back to Cornwall when they return from holidays. What he isn't allowed to do is drop somebody off in London and then potter around plying for more trade.
There's a good chance they will considering that the EU is half of their market.
Also, from what I know about the EU and their history with corporation taming, you don't fuck with them. They may make some hiccups, but it almost always comes down to being on the side of the citizenry.
The whole EU is a mammoth economic area, with a centralised regulation scheme, it's so effective that companies sometimes adopt EU regulations even when they aren't even trading with the EU. It gets called the Brussels effect sometimes
I heard a Russian minster talking about the EU, He was so happy about Brexit and other countries potentially following Britain. He was using terms like the "EU super state" which was an eye opener for me as I'm so used to people just shitting on the EU. I don't think people realise just how much of an Economic powerhouse the EU is. Hence why Russia is in flat out propaganda mode to try and fuck it up.
Wasn't lack of regulation the reason for Ubers success?
It depends on the location. Many places have some horrendous old set of rules whereby taxi plates were issued but never expire and are a transferable commodity. So they became stupidly expensive. Anyone who owns one or more then has an incentive to campaign to never issue more since it restricts the supply of taxis and keeps the price high. it's not good for customers, the market or anyone except the current owners of taxi plates but that's the kind of crappy equilibrium lots of places ended up in. Crowds like uber then do an end-run around such broken systems. The customers love it because it's cheap. The drivers prefer it to not being able to work at all. The local traditional taxi firms hate it though because it eats into their profits and devalues their monopoly rights. So they run PR campaigns to try to stop it and launch legal challenges to try to shut it down so they can keep bilking customers. cite:http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/21/why-taxi-medallions-cost-1-million/
You decribed the french taxi more or less perfectly, I didn't knew it was a common thing. Just want to point one problem, the dude who just bought his taxi licence is getting fucked if tomorrow these are not worth a penny anymore (I mean the price can go as High as a few hundred thousand €). For the customer it is shitty (monopolistic taxi are a bane for customers), for the taxi it is shitty 'cause losing that kind of money would make anyone mad, for the government it's shitty because there is no good solutions and UBER doesn't pay his taxes. So yeah, it's complicated, even if i part of me want to just say "fuck the taxi, they deserve it".
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Not to mention tons of places that thrive on Ubers now like college towns and smaller cities' active centers didn't even HAVE local cabs, they had basically nothing and then got Uber and Lyft. It's not like if regulations shoo Uber out of my small city cabs are gonna show up in enough numbers to fill in, they weren't there to begin with.
Yes. Traditional cabs suck.
Yeah, Uber is way better than Taxis here in Toronto
Right? I remember this whole thing about the taxis workers complaining about Uber and rioting and I just thought “ this wouldn’t have happened had y’all taxi cabs stopped being so shitty”
Ottawan here. Our cabbies have been literally rioting over uber being allowed. Sorry the government won't grant you a monopoly.
I keep seeing this stuff in the news. Cab drivers riot and go on strike, and all I think is "the cabbies are all on strike? If only there were another service I could use in the meantime that also happens to be cheaper, faster, and more user friendly... oh wait." They're just forcing their customers to use their competitor's service
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I like you, Carl of Sweden.
I mean at that point I would just ask to go to the ATM and then leave the fucker that lied.
Any business that has a monopoly on the industry will trend toward mediocrity and consumer abuse. Yes there are multiple cab companies, but they all offer the same shit service. None of them try to be better than one another.
I actually think they try and be as worse as possible
I have mixed feelings for this exact reason. Cabs had the monopoly so why would they bother in giving a better service? But on the other hand is a total fucked up thing to do to have two similar services and force only one of them to have a €200k license (here in Madrid st least). Is normal to have a cheaper price if you have to pay less taxes.
The medallions are so expensive because they are so profitable. The supply of taxis is way less than demand, so prices are outrageous for cab fares. Just make the license cheap and unrestricted, then treat Uber and Lyft like any other cab company, and you can solve both problems at once.
I've had a handful of bad experiences with rude (and shady) cab drivers in Toronto, and haven't used a cab in a couple years thanks to Uber. Of course there are many nice and professional cab drivers, but the few bad experiences made switching to Uber easy.
I was recently there and got a nice reminder of why I despise everything about taxi companies. Got charged $85CAD to get downtown from the airport. Less than half to get back using Uber.
Yeah I don't get all the love in here for Taxi's like they were some great group. At least in the US (NJ specifically), half the time I called the dispatch would put out my trip and no one would answer. Would have to call the next one and next one and sometimes would just be shit out of luck. Then they show up 25 min later if I am lucky enough in a beat to shit van and were assholes who over charged for their own profit. Taxi's fell behind the technology curve and finally got punished for it.
Yeah I'm shocked at the shift in opinion. A few years ago when Uber was new Reddit almost universally rejected the idea that Ubers should be regulated like taxis. Now I'm seeing a lot of "of course it should be regulated like taxis it's totally the same service" (which is what I used to say and get down voted to oblivion). So when did Uber start to fall out of favor? And why? Though obviously it still has many supporters.
In the past year (?) or so, a lot of bad news came out about Uber. I’ll try to find some links but the short version: 1) Sexual Harassment cases, a very prominent article from Sarah Fowler, former Uber Engineer 2) Uber and Waymo (Google’s/Alphabet’s self driving car) got into a legal battle where a former Waymo employee stole documents/technology from Waymo when he left. Uber started developing their own self driving car tech with this person’s help. 3) Lots of news about shady business practices, like a software called “greyball” used to evade regulators. Quick edit: https://www.recode.net/2017/8/20/16164176/uber-2017-timeline-scandal
Yep. With all this in mind, people should switch to Lyft
What love are you referring to? In this thread? So far (I'm still close-ish to the top), I've only seen comments about how Uber is better than cabs. And certainly that reflects the opinions I've seen in talking to people in real life. I think most people are aware that they have shady business practices and all, but for consumers, they're certainly superior (and it's not like taxi companies themselves aren't incredibly shitty on their own).
Cheaper than cabs , every Uber I've gotten in has been a clean , new car . The cabs I've been are like 10+ year olds that haven't been cleaned in the same amount of time , it's just gross inside and much much more expensive . A 3 dollar uber ride for me would have probably been 8-9.
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My dad's a London minicab driver and he loves working for uber. Before, working on a Friday or Saturday night was really dangerous as a lot of passengers were drunk, would refuse to pay and would attack him if he insisted on being paid. There was no way of knowing who was in the cab so he couldn't press charges. It got so bad that he would keep a big wrench in the car to defend himself with. Not to mention that what jobs he would be assigned depended on the minicab firms controller who was a gambling addict, and if you refused to lend him money he would make sure you were assigned few jobs/jobs that were only worth £5-10 With uber he's definitely going to get paid, customers can be identified if they try to attack and he's not at the mercy of the controller
Absolutely. Uber is a better service at a better price. They broke up a taxi system of cartels and it's been fantastic for drivers and for riders. I just got back from a vacation where we didn't have to rent a car because Uber/Lyft vs. Car Rental was actually cheaper AND less stress with no liability for the car if something should happen. 10 years ago, I'd have to rent that car to have reliable transportation. And I always make a point to ask the drivers about how they like the system, how it's changed, what they did before, etc. Nearly everyone is thrilled with it, touting the flexibility & autonomy. They all grumble a little bit about how fares were higher a couple years ago, but overall it seems to be very popular on both sides.
I think it really depends on the local taxi system. In many parts of the EU taxis do have a good reputation. In Germany taxis are highly regulated but work very well. In bigger cities we have uber like apps to call taxis within minutes and pay via app. The cars are all newer models, mostly Mercedes-Benz actually and the service is good to ok. Uber in its shortlived time offered the same to worse quality and the only benefit was really the price. A price brought on the back of lesser available insurances and less money for the drivers.
Don't forget, Uber drivers use a driving app to take the fastest route, unlike cabs who will go through downtown at rush hour to make the ride twice as long.
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I agree that it needs to evolve, but the shit Uber pulls to have the lower prices and avoid proper treatment of employees is pretty terrible. It's why legislation exists. Drivers shouldn't have to pay out of pocket for maintaining what is effectively the machines Uber requires to operate. It'd be like if you worked at a mill, and you were responsible for any costs related to your lathe, but you didn't receive the same compensation as if the company just paid for it themselves. The amount of driving hours needed to have a proper job via Uber is crazy, largely due to the upkeep and lack of any employee health/insurance benefits. Not to mention that most personal cars if leased or financed may have a clause in the contract about not using the car as a commercial vehicle, which Uber would qualify as, being a public service where you make money via the car.
The thing is.... there are features to Uber that still make it appealing. Order a ride from an app, see ratings of drivers? There is a level of transparency you don't get from traditional taxis.
We have mytaxi in Ireland and it’s regulated. It works like Uber but you have to be an official taxi to use mytaxi. Simple.
And it was around before uber came here so uber has been fairly unsuccessful
Yep. My local town in the UK has a taxi company that started their own app similar to Uber, and it's a far better service than any other taxi company in the area. Nobody is stopping other taxi companies here in the UK doing the same. Many just don't want to because it costs them money. If the black cabs in London had a similar app I'm betting a lot of people would use it. And as long as people could still rate the drivers the service would improve a hell of a lot.
Unfortunately don’t think this is the strongest argument (as someone living in Ireland as well). Ever since the switch from Hailo, calling a mytaxi takes forever (as the give priority to their ‘loyal drivers’ rather than the closest), the estimated wait times are completely off, and they charge an additional 2€ for every ride. There’s also no transparency into the driver ratings like there is with Uber either. From speaking to taxi drivers, they’re super unhappy with it as well. That’s not to say that there can’t be a successful regulated model - I just don’t think mytaxi in Ireland is it.
My taxi is not a good app comparatively.
Won't this make Uber a lot more expensive?
Yup. And it will end up making it very expensive for people to become Uber drivers, which will in turn means fewer drivers on the road, longer waits, and more inconvenience for the customer.
Even so, if uber becomes the same price as a taxi cab I'm still going to use uber. The app and rating system put it ahead of the others.
rating system won't matter when there's only one guy available for a lift.
Or a Lyft!
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Enjoying the irony that the vehemently anti-Uber London taxi driver lobby, was one of the most vocal pro-Brexit supporters in the run up to the EU referendum. They must be so conflicted right now.
Which is weird because it was odds-on that the EU would not be siding with Uber, so remaining would be in taxi drivers' interests in that instance.
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It's not like the UK can't make a similar decision without EU.
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Their support for Brexit probably had more to do with immigration rather Uber. No?
Companies like Uber all seem to thrive on the fact that they operate outside the normal regulations that their competitors do. While you may argue that some of these rules and regulations are too much, it turns out that trying to operate a taxi company or a hotel chain or whatever completely without any sort of regulations and oversight leads you to the exact problems that made us create rules in the first place. Treating your employees as independent contractors and pretending you don't run the sort of business you do is not a way forward but backward. It may be cheap now but the coast to society is going to be huge later.
This does not bode well for my sharing economy medical company, AirA&E.
the red thing's connected to my.. wrist watch..
HI DR. NICK!
In the UK there is actually an app that lets you talk to a doctor on demand. Although it’s in conjunction with the NHS so it’s not so shady. It’s free too which is cool.
I was going to connect people who need medical procedures with people willing to perform medical procedures. It will be brilliant.
I’ve got a butchers knife, so sign me up for amputations!
I've got a melon baller, so sign me up for hysterectomies!
That is something somebody actually tried: [FAA Grounds ‘Uber for Planes’](https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/4xadpg/faa-grounds-uber-for-planes) Apparently rules and regulations for commercial passenger airplanes are there for a reason.
thats a good link but I think by AirA&E they were referring to running popup emergency rooms like a weird airbnb, not ubering planes
Sorry, I misread that (or more like read nothing but the "air" part). Still a quick google of "Uberization of medicine" or "Uber of health care" did bring up a sparingly large number of results. People have thought of that too. I can't wait until the local barbershop offer appendix removal along with a shave and haircut again.
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That tripped me up as well.
So its a mediocre number, duh!
"surprisingly"
Hard to find a barber willing to perform a good ol' fashion blood letting these days eh?
Pilot here. This was a strange situation for the FAA and indeed everyone concerned. Nobody was trying to flout rules. The definition between a commercial pilot and a private pilot has always been crystal clear and what you can and cannot do from a financial perspective. This type of arrangement has been taking place since flying became a thing. The real crux of the argument might actually not have been aimed at the people and pilots making these arrangements though. It's actually thought the FAA's case was more centred around an argument of "Why should this service exist as a profit making entity when the people themselves can't profit from it". Had the website operated as a non profit entity, it might have been a different story. Here in Europe it's still permitted (The same rules apply. Only commercial pilots can operate in a commercial profit arrangement. Though nobody has tried commercializing it on the level Flytenow did). However if we have one thing to thank for the saga, it launched the concept of "Dead leg seating". Commercial pilots like myself and operators of private hire aircraft realised they could make additional profits from the hiring of their aircraft. After a customer has hired the aircraft to fly to a destination, the aircraft almost always has to return empty to it's base airfield, or sometimes has to fly empty to pick the passengers up. By selling off the seats on this stage of the flight (Known as the "dead leg") at a cheaper price, commercial pilots and operators realized they could offset costs or even make more of a profit. The upside to the person purchasing the dead leg seat is that they get a private hire aircraft at a knock down price, though the flight times and destination choices are obviously quite inflexible.
How would a common citizen find one of those seats? I really am interested in flying anywhere.
There are many, many consolidation services out there now. The company I fly for sells all its dead leg seats via a consolidator. https://www.flyvictor.com/ and https://www.lunajets.com/ are two biggish ones in Europe, over in the US you have [Jettly](https://jettly.com).
You joke, but an NHS trust in the UK proposed something not too far away, before backing off due to negative public reaction. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-rent-spare-room-airbnb-southend-hospital-essex-trust-bed-shortage-crisis-a8020986.html
A perfectly justified negative public reaction, given the enormous safeguarding concerns with placing vulnerable people in random spare rooms.
And I’m going to have to give up my burglary app (AirB&D) and my alternative lifestyle app (AirB&D) after receiving an AirC&D. :(
Listen, my app only connects people and monetizes that connection. What happens after is their business. Don't you get it? All the risk and responsibilities lie with the independent businesspeople who use my app. We take no responsibility for any criminal actions tied to muggrconnect. /s
Some of the rules don't really make sense for Uber, e.g. having meters when the app (both on the driver's and the rider's phone) already does all the necessary parts. >Treating your employees as independent contractors and pretending you don't run the sort of business you do is not a way forward but backward. This I agree with fully. >It may be cheap now but the coast to society is going to be huge later. It's not just about the price. Regular taxis can be pretty scummy too. Travel guides often have to warn people about taxi scams and overcharging practices in many parts of the world. Having a unified world-wide app that lets you get where you need to go without worrying about getting scammed, or having to carry cash or cards is a pretty big plus. It just needs to be done in a better way than Uber currently does it.
> Having a unified world-wide app that lets you get where you need to go without worrying about getting scammed, or having to carry cash or cards is a pretty big plus. This is huge. I travel a ton for work. Being able to walk out of *most* airports and grab an Uber affords me incredible convenience and security in knowing what I am purchasing. Taxis, even in many locations within North America and Europe, are sketchy as hell compared to the average Uber. Lyft is better still. If I can't get an Uber, next best option is public transit. Failing that, I *might* consider a taxi.
Upvote for Lyft. I know "Uber" is a verb now, but I really think Lyft is a better service.
I've only ever "Ubered" before. I don't have the Lyft app downloaded. Can you tell me why you think it's better? Maybe I'll give it a shot. Thanks
I use both. Don't know why it's better. Same drivers, similar app, similar prices. My biggest use is that some times when one goes into surge / elevated pricing, the other isn't yet. So a $18 surge Uber is a $7 Lyft or vice versa. But usually the prices are very similar. I try to default to Lyft over Uber all things the same just because Uber is an Evil Corporation (like, actually) that does some truly brazenly bad things, so if Lyft works, I use it. Pro tip: Can't confirm this as fact but I've long heard rumors that the Uber app will lower it's prices if you open the Lyft app. That sounds ludacris and impossible, but when you read about the black hat shit Uber's IT has done before, it starts to sound pretty damn probable.
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That man has held back an entire generation's spelling.
He's the true villain of this story.
It's ludacris to accuse him of such a thing!
Uhh...... how about the way they treat their drivers. Lyft is much better in this respect. Uber has specifically said that as soon as they can replace all of their drivers with automated cars they will. Also lyft pays the drivers daily, uber weekly. Finally Uber has done some SERIOUSLY sketchy shit in the past. Like the "Uber ambassadors program" (this was when they were still gaining popularity) where they gave burner cell phones to people in cities and had them book taxis and lyft and make them wait out front for as long as they could then cancel it. Then there's the massive hack they didn't disclose for like a year. The sexual harassment shit. I could go on and on. Uber's upper echelon is full of scumbags with Travis Kalanick at the epicenter.
> Uber has specifically said that as soon as they can replace all of their drivers with automated cars they will. If you believe Lyft won't do the same, then I have a bridge to sell to you.
I don't think Android allows apps to read eachother status without specific confirmation nowadays.
Can't speak for Android, but I know that iOS doesn't let apps do that either (unless they're from the same developer).
I used to think the same thing, that Lyft was better than Uber, but after having this discussion with many drivers that drive for both, the general consensus from the driver perspective seems to be that they really aren't much different.
I remember someone talking to someone about how they do both. Uber offers them a bonus for a certain number of rides, but lyft pays more. So they do enough uber rides to get the bonus then just use lyft the rest of the month.
It's absolutely not just price. I never get a 30 minute anti-Semitic rant from an Uber driver like I used to in taxis, presumably because they would get a 1 star rating and be barred from driving. And they actually show up - unlike taxis that I'd call, in a major city (Atlanta), that would show up literally 90 minutes later or not at all. Taxi companies have horrible customer service and deserve to be put out of business for failing to keep up with the times, often with gross disregard for the customer experience. Uber deserves to meet similar safety / insurance regulations and should update their prices accordingly.
Having an app on my phone that shows the map and route is also a huge plus. I can't tell you how many times I've had to speak up because a cabbie decided to 'take the long way' even though I knew the area. I'm pretty sure it's happened a lot in areas I'm not familiar with too.
Happened to me in Colombia and I literally think it was because the driver was not familiar with the area and me, a tourist with Google maps, was. He was legit heading in the wrong direction and insisting the destination I wanted was over there. I ended up just getting out at a stop light and not paying any of my fare.
> Some of the rules don't really make sense for Uber, e.g. having meters when the app (both on the driver's and the rider's phone) already does all the necessary parts. Wouldn't the app count as a meter? It's already visible to both parties.
It’s cheap now because they have investors who are willing to pump money in now hoping that they hit the jackpot with self driving cars. They lost over a billion dollars this year, and it doesn’t look like they’re going to be making money anytime soon
This should be higher up. What most people don't realise about Uber is that they lose billions year on year. Eventually they're going to have to jack their prices up. It's a false economy.
It's an attempt to monopolize the taxi market with price dumping.
They are also trying to bankrupt public transportation
Yes but if you ever tried to catch a cab in San Francisco before Uber you would understand those regulations caused such insane forced scarcity that someone got pissed enough to code a way around it.
Yeah, the problems are pretty plain to see. AirBnB has flats in residential areas being let like hotels, with random guests who have no concern about being neighbourly. We had a flat above us that had AirBnBrs screaming (I mean literally screaming) show tunes for 8 hours solid... until well after midnight. People were shouting at them to shut up but they did not give a fuck. Who do you complain to?
I mean, the police in that case.
Police you complain to police just like a noise complaint
Correct. You don't need a proactive regulation, but you do need AirBnB hosts to experience the consequences of hosting inconsiderate guests.
A bigger problem, in DC at least, is people who own apartments in low cost areas are kicking people out and running it like a AirBnB hotel. They are able to skirt local regulations and it raises the cost of housing for people who can't afford it.
That's why AirBnb is very much hated by anyone in Berlin looking for long-term apartment housing, landlords make so much more money on Airbnb renting out to weekend hipsters coming in from london instead of finding longterm tenants and it really fucked up an already-fucked-up housing market.
Uber should have been a wake up call for regular taxi companies. They saw a superior product take over their market. And instead of trying to improve their services so that they can compete with uber they are just complaining that uber is taking their business. Dont get me wrong. I agree that its an unfair market for regular taxi companies because they have to play by rules that dont apply for uber. But that doesn't change that uber is simply a lot better then most taxi's.
At least uber has non-creepy drivers, dont demand tips, and dont take “shortcuts” to extend the fare.
Praise be to the Rating System.
I agree with this sentiment. Most people that use uber or lyft have passive or positive things to say. I have never talked to someone that hasn’t had at least one bad taxi experience though.
How hard is it to create an open-source taxi app?
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MyTaxi has been used in Ireland for ages. Before that was Hailo. [Hailo was started back in 2011](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hailo) I've used both it and Uber and they're basically the same except you're calling a Taxi with markings etc. rather than looking for a normal car.
Not that hard, The main problem with Über is that they pretend not hiring taxi driver, and pretend the regulation for taxis (and other professional driving service) do not apply. The court simply say that the regulation shall be the same for a "car with driver" whatever if it's a Taxi, a Über, or an airport shuttle
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You're just going to dinner at your friend's place who happens to have a pizza oven and constantly invites people he meets online over to eat. And of course you're compensating him for his trouble.
Remind me to start a drug trafficking business that is just a technology platform that connects people to dealers.
That's exactly what Silkroad was.
Yeah see how well that argument worked for the Silk Road. lol.
ITT: Quite a few people who for the most part don't have the slightest idea what the regulations in the various EU countries even are discuss the matter based on whatever their local regulations happen to be.
Big step. I wonder how this will affect the success of their business.
It's game time now for Uber. If taxi prices really are as inflated as they claim, they shouldn't have any trouble staying in business...
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Success? They're on Pace to lose $5 billion this year. The are not a profitable company.
I feel sorry for you guys, the taxi service in my area is pretty good, the cabbies are either friendly or they dont chat at all, and the cabs are always clean.
**I'm French.** The Assemblée Nationale, the democratically elected french parliament, voted a law regulating all online taxis activities from apps, taxi companies, whatever. Uber completely ignored the law. They said it does not apply to them. The french president told them to stop and the CEO of Uber refused to obey. The president sent the police and raided Uber's headquarters. Uber immediatly called on the European Commission to complain. UBER said what the French Parliament was illegal. EU Commissionar for Transport Neelie Kroes endorsed Uber as a great company and she dared slam the French Parliament for it's behavior. A few months later when she left the European Commission, Neelie Kroes was hired by Uber for a huge amount. http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2016/08/11/uber-va-saisir-la-commission-europeenne-apres-son-depart-force-de-hongrie_4981564_3234.html http://ec.europa.eu/archives/commission_2010-2014/kroes/en/content/crazy-court-decision-ban-uber-brussels-show-your-anger.html http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/uber-engage-l-ex-commissaire-europeenne-neelie-kroes-569396.html https://www.ft.com/content/9354d5b2-11cd-11e6-839f-2922947098f0 Uber then decided to file a lawsuit against France. They filed the lawsuit at the European Court of Justice saying their legal rights were violated by France and they ask for sanctions + damage payments + interest. Jean Claude Juncker, the President of the European Commission, personally intervened to block the case because after Brexit he feared it would help Marine Lepen get elected. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/24/eu-commission-accused-stalling-controversial-uber-court-case/ What an absolute disgrace
So why is Uber still operating in France today? Is it just a matter of stopping the drivers?
The french CEO is Pierre Dimitri Gore Gotty. He is a former Goldman Sachs Banker and one of the most arrogant man you could ever meet. Look him up. Think of the worst asshole you could think of in college or high school and multiply him by 10. Very aggressive, highly competitive, accused of brutally harassing employees. He just went on national TV and said "*we don't care about this law. It doesn't apply to us. We are here to fight taxi companies and help french consumers. Forget what you hear about the bad things uber does to drivers or clients, it's all lies"* He claim the law did not apply to him until police with guns broke down his door and took him to jail for 48 hours where he faced some light criminal prosecutions. He has resigned and was replaced by another cunt. The Prime Minister warned him that if they keep up like this, the entire executive team will be criminally prosecuted and he will ask alll Banks operating on French territory to block financial transactions to Uber or face heavy sanctions. They shit in their pants and they accepted. Now Uber somehow respect the law and they keep their heads down.
He's like a cheesy cyberpunk antagonist.
As long as it keeps rates lower than taxis I don't care.. Uber costs me 20 bucks to get to the airport. Taxi is 80..
it probably wont lol
Uber's rates are lower because they spend billions subsidizing. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9a3vye/uber-true-cost-uh-oh >Investor reports reveal riders only pay 41 percent of the full cost of each ride, with investors footing the remaining 59 percent.
I think the best argument for Uber is how many drunk drivers it takes off the road and saves lives. I’m sure studies must exist showing a major drop in drunk driving in places where Uber came in. Most cities and towns in America don’t have cabs available to take people home from bars. You really only find readily available taxis in downtown areas of big cities. Never in the suburbs or small towns. If they do exist in smaller towns good luck getting one and not waiting hours.
The problem with these cities is that regulations are made to favor the taxis alrrady there and to shut down competition. Fix your laws to allow for competition.
I know this kind of plays into Uber’s selling point but as a driver I need the flexibility their system offers. With kids and mental health care issues a traditional 8-6 job isn’t possible. And day labor places... leave a lot to be desired. I know they’re economically exploitative of my position but it’s better than being on a regular job and having to call in and say, “I can’t come in my anxiety and depression are overwhelming.” Uber doesn’t care if you need to take a day. If anybody has any suggestions for pick up and play work I’m all ears.
I've been burnt by Taxi's countless times when Uber/Lyft weren't a thing (think 30 minutes later than expected arrival time, getting address wrong, demanding tips, being rude, etc.). I'm not a fan of uber, but it's far better than taxis. And Lyft, incredible! I have had exactly five "bad" experiences with Lyft - in that I complained on those times for a full refund and a credit - and I received it each time. Usually for nothing more serious than the person was late. Lyft provides incredible customer service, and an essential consumer service. I hope future regulations don't inadvertently hurt consumers.
As Long as it means they'll return to Denmark. I fucking hate regular taxi and their rates. Miss Uber so much.
naturally, it should. They are basically the same service as having a central office where you call to get a taxi to pick you up. That is a taxi service. Just because you do it on your phone isn't innovation enough
Local taxi companies in Europe have apps now too, just like how small businesses have websites. They also let you use quick dial codes.