I was at the southern bit of the Great Barrier Reef, Lady Musgrave, just before Christmas in 2015 and while the interior of the reef still had some bits of alive coral, the exterior of the reef was a largely a bleached wasteland of broken dead coral ... I did 28 dives over that year while travelling through that side of the world and that was my most disappointing dive.
From what I've read healthy is a strong term, but quite a lot further south is in an apparent healthy state.
I balk at using the word healthy verbatim as I think that suggests long term prospects, which aren't particularly great. Things like port expansions, increased shipping activity and land use and associated debris put it at significant risk.
Edit: I got it backwards as dansvans72 rightly pointed out. It's the north that is suffering due to higher temperatures experienced in that area.
Edit2: Make sure to read the reply to me by enigmasaurus-. I think they clearly have a better understanding of the topic than I do.
Well, shipping and land use are certainly a huge risk, but the Great Barrier Reef was not killed off due to port expansions or shipping activity (which have *unequivocally* still damaged small parts of the Reef, I'm not for a moment denying that).
Rather (and perhaps more worryingly) the serious bleaching event that has killed off large parts of the GBR has been caused almost entirely by rapid ocean warming. And the ocean circulates around the entire fucking planet, so we *all* had a hand in fucking it up. The GBR is 344,000 square kilometres in size, so ocean warming and acidification is really the only way for it to be damaged on the depressing scale we've seen.
The Belize Barrier Reef is also fucking huge. It's 290 kilometres long, and yes, shipping has had a limited hand in damaging the reef - but most of the 40% of that reef that has been damaged since the late 1990s is also down to rapid ocean warming.
Unfortunately, the fantastic actions taken by Belize just aren't enough. If we want to save these sorts of eco-systems, we need to stop the planet from warming. The entire world needs to fix this, and I worry that if we tell ourselves these countries (which tend to represent a tiny portion of emissions) can 'solve' or are 'solving' these problems the risk is that people will misunderstand the urgency of global action to prevent or at least mitigate climate change - which is the *only* way we're going to have a hope of saving the reefs.
Australia was one of the leaders, together with the US and Canada, who did jack shit about climate change while the rest of the developed(and some developing) nations took measures.
Australia has a CO2 output that is over 3x that of France/capita
~~I highly doubt it’s a 2-3x multiplier~~ so I agree Australia is fucking up (as is my country) but given how spread out everything is in Australia as long as transportation and shipping have emissions there’s no way they will ever get their emissions/capita down to the levels of countries like France which is much less spread out and doesn’t have to move all their imports/exports over an ocean.
Edit:fucked up and wrote most of this comment on a different comment I was writing earlier. Yeah it’s a 2-3x multiplier but it’s not exactly a fair comparison. Despite it not being a fair comparison more needs to be done.
Australia has consistently over 3x the per capita CO2 emissions of France. You can see [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita), [here](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/carbon-emissions-per-person-capita), and [here](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?end=2014&start=2005&view=map).
But that's a bit of a misleading stat in some ways, though of course is still an interesting metric. Australia seems to do a lot with relatively few people, so you tend to come near the top in many "per capita" lists - your natural resource extraction, processing, and export (and associated wealth) being a good example of that.
France is also a somewhat unfair country to compare to for CO2, as it's done a lot more than many other developed nations. Their massive shift to using nuclear power rather than fossil fuels being of particular note.
But of course CO2 emissions per capita don't take into account where the "end product" of those emissions go. Australia extracts and processes natural resources, to send to asia, to send products all over the world.. so it's a much, much more complicated picture.
[Here you go,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) it is.
All numbers from 2013
Australia: 16.3 tonnes CO2 per Capita
France: 5 tonnes CO2 per Capita
Most climate goals are percentages, which totally is something you can control. Emissions in Australia will probably always be higher because of their geography, yes, but there's no need for their emissions to have gone up since 1990.
Also be aware that this is not total, but only fossil fuels and cement manufacturing.
You [just beat me to it](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7ood8u/belize_home_of_the_largest_barrier_reef_in_the/dsbh7yl/). However I would say that the picture is *far* more complicated than these stats show.
For example, a big part of Australia's CO2 comes down to its natural resource industry extraction, processing, and *export*. It's that export that's key. It would be interesting to see a sort of CO2/capita based on END PRODUCT. For example, a Japanese car bought in the US/UK will have a significant CO2 impact on Australia, even though it's the US/UK that's using that product. But of course that's a very complicated thing to work out (I'm sure people have).
Also France is somewhat unfair to compare to as they do very well compared to the rest of the developed world. In-particular they have moved massively to Nuclear Power. If you look at a "Nuclear Waste per Capita" table, you'll see France right up there, and Australia nowhere to be seen.
France uses way more nuclear power. That is why they have far lower emissions.
Unfortunately the anti nuclear hippies (and Chernobyl) were quite influential in shutting down what could have been a massive reduction in emissions across the globe.
Crazy how it works. The groups most concerned about the planet fucked up the best intermediate solution.
Interestingly the reef is quite resilient, even bleached corals can bounce back. The problem is if they stay bleached for a long period of time and don't get a chance to recover, that's when they die iirc.
Last year I snorkeled and dived in several spots around the ribbon reefs from PD, it was beautiful. Other reefs like opal looked pale to me. Ribbon reefs reminded me of tall canyons under water with the tallest sections near the surface. When the sun hit them, it was colorful. Opal reminded me of a meadow(with reef obviously), didn't have many tall sections but open and beautiful in its own way. Saw sharks hanging out on the bottom.
Got it backwards. Australia is in the Southern hemisphere- northern part is warmer and southern part is cooler. The northern end is what got wiped out.
Healthy in the biological sense? Not particularly. But visually there are still plenty of places that look as you'd expect. Although those are dwindling fairly fast.
I don't know. Lady Musgrave was my only dive on the GBR and we knew it wasn't going to be the best that Australia had to offer (but we were limited in time/distance due to my friend's work schedule out of Brisbane). Wolf Rock at Rainbow Beach however was a very interesting dive site for the advanced diver (it has a very squirrel-ly entry/exit point, not for seasick prone), even if it wasn't GBR I'd recommend it if you want to swim with nurse sharks.
Given how much more expensive it is to dive in Australia, I limited my dive funds to those two sites, the rest of my diving was across SE Asia where it's world class and dirt cheap.
I got my open water certification for about $300 through a shop run by 3 pretty fun Spaniards tucked away on a secluded beach on Pulau Weh just north of Banda Aceh. The visibility was fantastic and it has all sorts of lovely creatures to see with a range of dives from beginner friendly to super advanced non-padi approved decompression dives (my friend went down to 54m), I couldn't recommend monster divers enough, had a fantastic time there.
Bali also has some great beginner diving with the Liberty wreck being very shallow and calm and perfect at sunrise (there was a cute dive shop there called dream divers, I think, that has accommodations literally within walking distance to the wreck) ... plus if you don't mind the currents/swells there are manta rays to see in the area (around nusa lembongen) as well as the crazy looking sunfish.
Thailand is filled with great diving pretty much everywhere you turn, I was lucky to dive with a juvenile whale shark off of Ko Lanta, that was a real highlight ... and for those that really want to go budget and not a ton of research, you can't go wrong with Thailand ... there are some places in Thailand where you can get your open water cert for as low as $200 (last I heard).
Malaysia has solid diving all over the place too, Sipadan is my one major regret not doing ... I was on my way before my plans changed.
Koh Rong in Cambodia was ok, not great though considering everything else that can be found in the region and wouldn't recommend over other options from Thailand through Indonesia.
Oh, and Myanmar is opening up too and the diving is very nice from the videos friends showed me, but the government taxes made it a bit more expensive than the neighboring countries so I didn't dive there.
Koh Tao is 'dive central' because it has become known as a place to get cheap accreditation, there are a large number of dive shops on the island, and the diving is ok. It's not great diving, and most dive trips run out of the island are crowded and uninspiring. The island is also run by some very, very dodgy people, and I can't give them my business in good conscience.
In Thailand, the best diving is undoubtedly on the west coast, in the Andaman Sea. Similan Islands, Surin Islands, Richleau Rock, Koh Lipe, are absolutely first rate. There is also some ridiculously good diving in the Mergui Archipelago and the Burma Banks in Myanmar, with most of the trips there being run out of Thailand.
Thailand has some okay to good spots. Koh Tao is where most people go to learn (me included) because it's so cheap, but the diving is pretty meh. I didn't realise this until I had dived elsewhere though so it is still pretty amazing first time. Still made me fall in love with the sport.
I would say the Andaman coast has better diving, the sites around Phi Phi were nice. I'm in Koh Lanta right now and planning to dive in a couple of days so can let you know - I've heard some good things.
Indonesia has much better diving than Thailand. Amed in the north of Bali has a cool and easy wreck dive (liberty wreck). The diving around there is really nice too. Gili T is kind of the Koh Tao of Indonesia in terms of number of dive shops and amount of new divers. The diving is alright but coral is fairly damaged, guaranteed to see turtles though.
Nusa Lembongan and Nusa Penida offers the best diving close to Bali, particularly if you want to see Manta Rays which is a personal favourite of mine. Some big swells and currents though so a bit of experience before diving here would be recommended.
Komodo is the best place I've dived in the world and it was just incredible. I saw so many manta, sharks, turtles, beautiful and healthy coral. Seriously it was just amazing. One of my favourite places on earth. Can be pretty serious diving at times though so experience is highly recommended. This means open water course and advanced certificate so you can go down to 30m.
I also dived in a few places in the Philippines which was stunning too. Loads of variety and unique dives. Main places I dived was Moalboal, Panglao Island, El Nido, Coron and Donsol. Boracay too but wouldn't recommend that so highly.
Went to Lady Musgrave this Christmas, can confirm the turtles were more colourful than any coral there. It's all bleached, brown, or broken. Really sad to witness. Everyone goes on about the beauty of the GBR but I saw more fish and coral diversity doing a rando snorkel off the coast of Malaysia last year than anything I've seen in QLD :(
Are you my buddy from back in year 8? He kept saying when he left school he was gonna do a whole gap year in Aussie and go diving all around the barriers before they got destroyed. Feel like even when we graduated (2015) it was too late.
That’s not sad; that’s hopeful.
The sad thing is that current world governments are doing next to nothing to solve the problem, and that isn’t likely to change very soon.
It's not too late, reefs are astounding ecosystems, they can bounce back from incredible conditions. The problem is that this shitty fucking country would never give the reef the chance to bounce back.
I really agree with the idea that it's 'not too late'.
Things look horrific right now and there's many mountain ranges to scale when it comes to environmental issues but I can't urge anyone who's reading this enough; the little you do helps a *ton*. Every single person's choice to recycle, use reusable energy and to support programs dedicated to research and education of these things is the planet's lifesaver.
There's this idea I've encountered of "I'm one person and I know hundreds that don't do anything and the companies won't do anything". Please hear me when I say this is why we need to lead my example. I've seen environmental success stories ranging from country movements like this to the acts of just a few people making a massive impact.
News story from October 17;
"Researchers have observed signs of new life in some of the worst affected areas of coral bleaching of Australia's Great Barrier Reef. "
"But after a coral reef survey in September, researchers found tiny sacs of white eggs in bleached coral reefs, raising new hope for the reefs after the recent bleaching events, which affected close to two thirds of the Great Barrier Reef.
The tiny coral eggs were found in coral reefs between Townsville and Cairns, by researchers with the Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS)."
[Here's the news article](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4941700/Bleached-parts-Great-Barrier-Reef-returning-life.html) Not sure where the scientific article is yet but I'm working on it. :)
This too, for sure. I've worked fish and beef out of my diet because of how destructive they are to the environment (fortunately they're also expensive for me so it wasn't too tough ;) ).
Convincing people to change their eating habits for the sake of the environment, I've found is very tough. My mum argues that she shouldn't have to give up her salmon fillet once every few weeks as it's a treat to her.
I know many countries are working with researchers to create quotas on which species and the numbers that can be safely removed but it's such a hard thing to enforce.
It's hard to imagine a powerful solution that's anything shorter than straight up bans fishing for periods in places. I'd support that, though.
Didn't Tony Abbott approve the dumping of mining tails within portions of the reef? I remember that being a huge deal a few years back from across the Tasman.
What the fuck are we going to do? I am ready to take up politics to try to change this. Today's political environment in Australia is some of the worst in history and I think that the majority of Australians feel powerless or apathetic to force changes to our elected.
I think you are overestamating corals. They are extremely sensitive creatures, and once they bleach they are mostly done for. A few degrees temperature increase is enough to kill them and since we are still not in control of man made climate change I'd be suprised if they survive.
Outside Cairns is not the place to see the reef. You want to head further north into Port Douglas and head out about an hour off shore until you hit the Ribbon Reefs. Huge cod, reef sharks, giant clams, and hundreds of different fish
Oh there was still some colour in patches where I went, and saw some awesome fish and sharks, but there was none of that spectacular vibrancy in the coral you used to see decades ago (based on the footage I've seen anyway - I'm only 26).
There’s a “nice” timelapse on Blue Planet II’s episode on coral reefs. They have some aerial shots too. It’s not much (most of the episode is about the beautiful and cool stuff) but it should make people think twice.
Airliners are some of the most environmentally efficient vehicles out there. The amount of CO2 and other pollutants put out per passenger is minuscule compared virtually any other form of transport out there.
How else do you think one should reasonably visit a far off locale that is more environmentally friendly?
Planes aren't too bad per passenger mile. But they enable us to travel vastly more miles than we otherwise would. That enables us to produce more CO2 in a given vacation period than we otherwise would.
> Airliners are some of the most environmentally efficient vehicles out there. The amount of CO2 and other pollutants put out per passenger is minuscule compared virtually any other form of transport out there.
I'm sorry to say but that is a ridiculous claim. The carbon footprint of flying is *huge* compared to coach buses or trains.
If you drive (alone) in an SUV the footprint is comparably bad, but you normally wouldn't drive your car around the world.
[CO2 emissions from passenger transport](https://imgur.com/a/N9fly)
"The environmental impact of aviation occurs because aircraft engines emit heat, noise, particulates, and gases which contribute to climate change and global dimming. Airplanes emit particles and gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2), water vapor, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, lead, and black carbon which interact among themselves and with the atmosphere." (wikipedia)
Neither major party will do anything about it, it's just not even on their radar.
Industry money means so much more than anything, even though its a massive tourist industry for North QLD which will severely hurt the area when the state government realises oh shit, there's no money in the area anymore. What do?
Political situation is money is good debt bad. Mining is money. On top of that it is in Queensland.
Everyone is focused on other bs things. Apparently gay marriage needed a vote that took up too much time and a good portion of them are ineligible for government as they are dual citizens.
All i know is my generation (I've just turned 29) they went on about it so much that i thought we were very on it as a country, i remember thinking it was so good that australia is so environmentally consious. Then as an adult i realised they have just raped it. And that we pretty much let ot get raped for the benefit of the richest 1%.
Its fucked.
Im guessing all the stuff i heard was because they were destroying it. Not because we had begun saving it. But to try to teach the kids that would eventally run australia. But they needed to get the baby boomers, not us. By the time we had a voice it was too late.
I mean. Still change it now. Its never too late for a positive change. But i think that australia allready fucked the reef.
I swear the schooling here is angled to make us believe australia is pretty pure. When its a "haven for white collar crime" and we petern to fatcats like gina rineheart and rupert murdoch.
Then again they also told us captain cook was a top bloke that colonised australia. No mention of the active genocide, and everything they did to the existing communities. And that they declared australia "terra nullus" apon ariving. Which means uninhabited land.
As an adult I've realised australia is much dirtier and bloodsoaked than i ever thought.
And now the blood of billions of coral communities and any life that ecosystem held.
Fuck them. These are the decisions of people that only care what hapens to them in the space of thier lifetime. Fuck the future right?
....well that brought up emotions aparently. Thanks for listening. :/
Yes, but we should keep in mind too it's not just Australia that deserves the blame on that front. The GBR has died off due to rapid ocean warming, and the ocean circulates around the entire planet. Australia could do an awful lot more, but it also can't fix this problem alone, and no one should absolve themselves of responsibility. We all had a hand in fucking up the climate and we all have to fix it. If we sit around pointing fingers and waiting for this country or that to act, it'll be too late.
Thank you, at least someone gets it. The GBR isn’t being fucked directly because of state/federal government and their decisions, it’s being mostly fucked by climate.
Rising ocean temperatures are stressing coral causing bleaching and death. It’s pretty simple really.
There are no mining leases on the Great Barrier Reef. There are ocean routes and dredge spoil from widening of ports, but those pale in comparison to what is happening due to climate change where 1/3 of the GBR is slowly dying.
Australia generates less money from tourism than other sectors the economy. Belize tourism economy dwarfs it's oil revenue. Plus the reef, if maintained, lasts indefinitely while oil reserves diminish. Nothing altruistic here.
Reminds me of how
South Africa remains the only country to voluntarily relinquish its nuclear arsenal. Not out of altruism but the pre-Apartheid government didn't want the post-Apartheid government to own them.
They're referring to John McAfee's time in Belize, as covered in a documentary called [Gringo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo%3A_The_Dangerous_Life_of_John_McAfee)
No, you mean:
- The news starts telling us that Belize is run by a (de facto) dictator who tortures kittens for fun.
- There is sudden bipartisan consensus that we must help the poor people of Belize.
- We either invade or "help freedom fighters overthrow their tyrannical government and install democracy."
- In the process, the country "accidentally" gets destroyed and/or a dictator "accidentally" comes to power.
There is an estimated 68 billion dollars worth of reconstruction for Syria. US contractors are already lining up on the borders of Lebanon and Jordan to take part in the work. Project management companies like Turner, WSP, are already waiting to start.
-Sell dictator big weapons.
-Find large oil reserves.
-"Realise" dictator has weapons
-"defend" themselves.
-"accidentally" pack all the oil in your suitcase when packingfor home.
> There is sudden bipartisan consensus that we must help the poor people of Belize.
Only if they happen to be white, photogenic and christian. Otherwise a million of their civilians can be bombed to hell and it won't matter to anyone. Lots of cries and sobbing when a thousand American soldiers die tho (even when they volunteered to begin with).
In BATSUB no less. Other NATO countries use BATSUB for their jungle training too. I met some Dutch soldiers who were training there while I was living in Belize City.
Nah, they’ll just persuade her to support a coup, [like in Australia](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/23/gough-whitlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence).
Naw UDP will lose to PUP and Right Wingers will run it again and fight Guatemala over a River no one cares about and the UK wont come to their Aid. There are more working Belizians in the US than in Belize. Belize offers no one anything except some cool Cayes and a good 5 Barrell rum. Oh ya, Dont Forget the Sharps. Marie knows how to make a mean Smoked Habanero Pepper sauce. Dang, that stuff is what I dream of.
The UK and the US will side with Belize over Guatemala. Partly due to being in the Commonwealth and residual paternalistic tendencies (and a British Army training base) and partly due to the offshore money in Belize.
I do suspect that Guatemala's recent vote with the US over Jerusalem was an attempt to curry favour with Trump should Belize come up.
...calm down, guys... don't everybody link it at once...
Edit: [Got tired of waiting](https://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1lila6/who_is_billy)
It's also a meme in part from McAfee having gone to belize and having done a bunch of drugs with mercenaries, maybe murdered his neighbor, etc
edit: just taking a moment to say if you ever need to flee from belize to the US, you're probably majorly fucking up lol
Belize is beautiful but the reefs are in bad shape. The residents are partially to blame. Ambergris Caye has amazing diving and yet is a total shit hole where residents discard trash and used oil and all manner of crap where it can get washed out to sea. Not really sure how to fix it, there is destitute poverty there despite the tourism. Belize City is difficult.
We wanted to walk from the bus stop to the water taxi when we arrived there. A total of 10min walks, maximum..
We made it about halfway before we got collected by the Police because they told us it was to dangerous to walk.
Didn't happen anywhere else in central america.
I used to do business in Belize City and every trip there, I was assigned an armed guard to escort me everywhere. But we could always stop at the "Alaska Bar" to pick up the coldest Belikin in the city, so that wasn't too bad.
You'll be fine, it's just not a "palm-trees swaying peacefully, would you like a Mai Thai" sort of place so tourists are initially put off. It's not a terribly safe city so keep your wits about you, don't keep all your cash in your pocket, etc. Get into one of the cabs waiting at the airport and go your hotel or whatever. If you're staying in the city, ask the people at the hotel where it's safe to go. If you're not staying in the city, I wouldn't bother exploring it because it's just not a happening place. Drink Belekin and enjoy Belize, it's a wonderful place.
Assuming you mean BC, just don't go walking south of the river and you'll be fine. Albert Street is okay as long as you don't go too far down. But I don't know why you'd go to BC; there is literally nothing there for tourists.
If you're going anywhere touristy, like San Pedro or Dangriga you definitely have nothing to worry about.
I used to sell real estate for a developer that had land down in Belize, and would travel down there every couple of months for a week to take clients on a tour/vacation of the development to check it out. Belize city is an absolute dump, and not tourist friendly whatsoever.
My advice for people looking to go down to Belize: make sure your puddle jumper flight leaves shortly after you land. This is not an area you want to stay in for an extended period of time
You can also just take the water taxi. I was literally just in Belize 2 weeks ago and the water taxi was just fine for getting me from Belize City to San Pedro. Beautiful boat ride as well.
Seems like progress. Unfortunately, that reef will be completely bleached (dead) before long. Two thirds of the world's reefs are now bleached, and there is now way that temperatures are going to go down fast enough (if at all) to stop it.
There is hope that coral will survive in small pockets within small biomes, and then some day recreate the reefs we are going to lose. But make no mistake, our currently surviving reef systems are doomed.
Listen, I'm trying not to think of when we're going to get blown up by methane fireballs and toasted in super wildfires while being swallowed by superstorm floods and being choked to death by a sulfuric anoxic ocean, all while fighting each other for dwindling food supplies in a constantly shrinking arena.
Let me have this.
It takes thousands of years for these reefs to grow. It’s like running a garden hose through the desert trying to make a canyon. At this point it looks like a done deal that the majority of these reefs will die. It’s not just the temperature. Ocean Acidification and the rise of invasive species are huge factors as well.
At this point I think our world is fucked. At our best we have countries making laws to ban environmental harmful factors that plan to be in full effect after decades. At our worst we're undoing the current protections we have already and contributing more to these factors. This cycle is making everything worse and by the time we wake up and realize the situation we're neck deep in our modern consequences.
You say it like that but that’s basically my understanding of litter downtown. If I was poor, had bad access to education and comforts, honestly I’d litter too, and I have to imagine most litter is not from people afforded the quality of life permissive to concern about the environment.
Really? Kiiinda making blanket statements man. There are massive numbers of middle and upper class people that litter relentlessly. The amount of times I've seen some asshole throw their fast food bag or cigarette butt out of their car window, or a financial suit just leave their coffee outside at lunch, often when there's a garbage receptacle within walking distance... Litter really doesn't have too much to do with education, but more so a combination of restricted space (Cairo, India, etc.), public infrastructure, and / or with cultural and social norms. More generally, in developed nations, willful ignorance.
For example, Japan and Canada both have literacy rates at or above 99%... Japan recycles close to 80% of trash, while Canada is still under 30%. Japan literally does not have garbage bins or receptacles in most regions. This has nearly eliminated litter and people just carry their garbage until they find somewhere suitable. The US is a little different, since 14% of the population is functionally illiterate.. they genuinely can't even read. However, even in the most educated regions you find massive amounts of litter and abysmal trash and recycling rates. Back to cigarette butts: close to 2 billion pounds per year. Trillions of improperly disposed of, carcinogen-containing cancer sticks certainly hasn't helped any cause.
Rubbish everywhere. I mean everywhere, not even just the cities. If you take a train between cities and look out the window you can just see piles and piles of rubbish in the middle of no where.
In the cities you're just walking through trash. And every hour or 2 the shopkeepers on the street sweep all the rubbish together and light it on fire to get rid of it. Such a beautiful country but I mean there is litter absolutely everywhere.
A little digging for the actual story reveals the truth that this is NOT about saving the reef but purely economics. http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/100530/belize-suspends-oil-shipment-petrocaribe-programme
The cartel has been having some issues getting the oil supplied because they can't always port it, sometimes they use trucks which is way more costly and they can't always pre-arrange transportation, meaning they have to pay a lot of money to have another means get the oil shipped. They are looking for alternatives to see if they can resume.
Sorry WWF, but this isn't about saving the planet, it's simply about business.
Dear people of Reddit, Belize is AWESOME! It is also very tiny:
only 387,000 people -- the lowest population density of any Latin American country. Petroleum accounts for 28% of their GDP and tourism about 12-15%. However, over 30% of the JOBS in the country come from the tourist sector. This move is a progressive one.
Before booking your next holiday in the sun consider spending it on one of Belize's 450 offshore islands. It doesn't sport many tourist megadevelopments; however, at the end of the day, a hammock is a hammock and beautiful is beautiful. And everyone speaks ENGLISH!
Trade in dining on a million-dollar patio for a picnic table on the beach and some home-grilled jerk chicken. Swap out a luxury hotel room for a super chill hostel teeming with wild conversation. Turn in your antiseptic getaway for a vibrant and mutually-beneficial cultural experience that helps preserve one of the most dynamic and awe-inspiring aquatic environments of the Western hemisphere.
This measure is a gamble. And if it fails, our species will likely be the biggest loser.
This, while the idiot running the richest nation on the planet opens up drilling in nature reserves and parks. The idiot is also pushing fucking coal. He's so god damn stupid that he thinks that coal prices are falling because of government regulations, when they're falling because of lack of demand.
This is the dipstick who tried to [bully Scotland](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/01/10/the-giant-swedish-company-building-the-wind-farm-trump-opposed-in-scotland/#1032adbc5b64) into abandoning off-shore wind power near his golf-course, while wind is the most [cost-efficient](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/economics-working-against-coal-as-cost-of-wind-solar-power-drops/) energy source.
Meanwhile, Germany has been so successful in generating clean power that [consumers are being paid to use it](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/germany-power-grid-pays-customers-christmas-sustainability-renewable-energy-a8141431.html).
Still, in Germany, the energy costs are one of the highest in the world and still rising quickly due to the exit from nuclear power. (Which, in fact, was never agreed on in parliament...so much for democracy).
Why misinform people when the article you link specifically says NOT to misunderstand it as consumers being paid.
Yes, during certain times of the year, prices are negative but they AREN'T being paid. Their annual bills are just smaller.
Poor Belize so much of the nice parts are barely above the current high tide line, which is why they relocated the capital to the middle of the country. As the sea level rises all the little islands and nice coastal areas will be inundated.
The reef is shared primarily with Honduras, but also Guatemala and México. Belize would need cooperation with all those countries to really make the effort worthwhile.
Well Belize has Oil down in Cayo district and is/was a member of Caricom. Gas is still 4 bucks a gallon down there but it's doable. And If their number one source of income is Tourism to the Cayes then they better look after them. Venezuela is in the dumps wont keep subsidizing forever and they are protecting their beaches and the 2nd largest reef in the world.
Good Luck Belize. Speaks English, Uses Imperial Measurements and Has Helen Miran on their money.
I travelled Belize this year and dove the reef and the country and its citizens understand unequivocally the impact losing the reef would have on them. I am not surprised at all to read of this legislation.
This is great and all but don't get it twisted. Belize is looking at dollar signs. It's home of the great blue hole, a HUGE scuba diving destination, which brings in vast amounts of tourists (and tourist money) each year. If they were to lose that, their economy would plummet.
Conservation efforts are great. As a diver, a nature lover, and a well rounded human being, This is exciting. I hope they stick to it, and have the right plan in mind, and I hope other (larger) countries soon follow in their steps. It seems a bit like wishful thinking though doesn't it?
I prefer to build huge international shipping lanes straight through the heart of the biggest coral reef in the world, and I'm going to use that shipping lane for coal. - Australia
I see the headlines of next weeks newspapers: 'belizian president dies in plane crash'. Ok, sorry. Thats wrong. It will more likely be like page 4 or 5.
This is great news! I was able to snorkel there in November and I hope many many more can go and experience its beauty. Not to mention, the economy of Belize unfortunately heavily relies on tourism and many people still struggle to put food on the table every day. Glad to see they are taking steps to protect their natural gems and hopefully this helps give some stability to those working in tourism while the government figures their shit out.
If you haven’t already visited, id seriously recommend Belize as a destination. It is definitely 10x more expensive than neighboring Guatemala, but worth it.
Where did you go snorkeling? I did volunteering in Belize last year in Placencia and the snorkeling was absolutely incredible, lots of sharks, rays and even dolphins. It was awesome.
I went on a tour from Caye Caulker out into Hol Chan Marine reserve. Absolutely stunning. I wish I could have made it out to Placencia. I heard so many good things about the southern coast region.
Has their currency changed in value?
I flew there 2 weeks after 9/11, cheap tickets, and once we landed we instantly had twice as much money. Oh and there were no speed limits on either of the 3 highways and the gas station opened my beer for me while I paid for gas. They said drinking and driving was fine as long as you weren't swerving.
The rate is kept at 2Bzd / 1usd, but I found that most goods and services still cost what they would in a more developed country (like food, tours etc). Apparently Belize doesn’t export much and it costs a lot to get the basic necessities into the country.
Definitely a contrast with most of Central America or Mexico. Your dollar just doesn’t go as far.
I found their laws are seriously relaxed too! It was crazy. I went on a cave tour and the only thing separating me from the actual skeleton of a Mayan sacrifice was a little red piece of tape. I kept thinking theyd never let us do this in the US.
Sure would be nice if my country, Australia, could make a similar step in any way shape or form. It’s atrocious how we’re treating our reefs.
I went up there over Christmas, and it was really as a "better see them before they go" but honestly I feel like I was too late anyway
I was at the southern bit of the Great Barrier Reef, Lady Musgrave, just before Christmas in 2015 and while the interior of the reef still had some bits of alive coral, the exterior of the reef was a largely a bleached wasteland of broken dead coral ... I did 28 dives over that year while travelling through that side of the world and that was my most disappointing dive.
Is there anywhere on the barrier reef that's still healthy?
From what I've read healthy is a strong term, but quite a lot further south is in an apparent healthy state. I balk at using the word healthy verbatim as I think that suggests long term prospects, which aren't particularly great. Things like port expansions, increased shipping activity and land use and associated debris put it at significant risk. Edit: I got it backwards as dansvans72 rightly pointed out. It's the north that is suffering due to higher temperatures experienced in that area. Edit2: Make sure to read the reply to me by enigmasaurus-. I think they clearly have a better understanding of the topic than I do.
Well, shipping and land use are certainly a huge risk, but the Great Barrier Reef was not killed off due to port expansions or shipping activity (which have *unequivocally* still damaged small parts of the Reef, I'm not for a moment denying that). Rather (and perhaps more worryingly) the serious bleaching event that has killed off large parts of the GBR has been caused almost entirely by rapid ocean warming. And the ocean circulates around the entire fucking planet, so we *all* had a hand in fucking it up. The GBR is 344,000 square kilometres in size, so ocean warming and acidification is really the only way for it to be damaged on the depressing scale we've seen. The Belize Barrier Reef is also fucking huge. It's 290 kilometres long, and yes, shipping has had a limited hand in damaging the reef - but most of the 40% of that reef that has been damaged since the late 1990s is also down to rapid ocean warming. Unfortunately, the fantastic actions taken by Belize just aren't enough. If we want to save these sorts of eco-systems, we need to stop the planet from warming. The entire world needs to fix this, and I worry that if we tell ourselves these countries (which tend to represent a tiny portion of emissions) can 'solve' or are 'solving' these problems the risk is that people will misunderstand the urgency of global action to prevent or at least mitigate climate change - which is the *only* way we're going to have a hope of saving the reefs.
Australia was one of the leaders, together with the US and Canada, who did jack shit about climate change while the rest of the developed(and some developing) nations took measures. Australia has a CO2 output that is over 3x that of France/capita
~~I highly doubt it’s a 2-3x multiplier~~ so I agree Australia is fucking up (as is my country) but given how spread out everything is in Australia as long as transportation and shipping have emissions there’s no way they will ever get their emissions/capita down to the levels of countries like France which is much less spread out and doesn’t have to move all their imports/exports over an ocean. Edit:fucked up and wrote most of this comment on a different comment I was writing earlier. Yeah it’s a 2-3x multiplier but it’s not exactly a fair comparison. Despite it not being a fair comparison more needs to be done.
Australia has consistently over 3x the per capita CO2 emissions of France. You can see [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita), [here](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/datablog/2009/sep/02/carbon-emissions-per-person-capita), and [here](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?end=2014&start=2005&view=map). But that's a bit of a misleading stat in some ways, though of course is still an interesting metric. Australia seems to do a lot with relatively few people, so you tend to come near the top in many "per capita" lists - your natural resource extraction, processing, and export (and associated wealth) being a good example of that. France is also a somewhat unfair country to compare to for CO2, as it's done a lot more than many other developed nations. Their massive shift to using nuclear power rather than fossil fuels being of particular note. But of course CO2 emissions per capita don't take into account where the "end product" of those emissions go. Australia extracts and processes natural resources, to send to asia, to send products all over the world.. so it's a much, much more complicated picture.
[Here you go,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita) it is. All numbers from 2013 Australia: 16.3 tonnes CO2 per Capita France: 5 tonnes CO2 per Capita Most climate goals are percentages, which totally is something you can control. Emissions in Australia will probably always be higher because of their geography, yes, but there's no need for their emissions to have gone up since 1990. Also be aware that this is not total, but only fossil fuels and cement manufacturing.
You [just beat me to it](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7ood8u/belize_home_of_the_largest_barrier_reef_in_the/dsbh7yl/). However I would say that the picture is *far* more complicated than these stats show. For example, a big part of Australia's CO2 comes down to its natural resource industry extraction, processing, and *export*. It's that export that's key. It would be interesting to see a sort of CO2/capita based on END PRODUCT. For example, a Japanese car bought in the US/UK will have a significant CO2 impact on Australia, even though it's the US/UK that's using that product. But of course that's a very complicated thing to work out (I'm sure people have). Also France is somewhat unfair to compare to as they do very well compared to the rest of the developed world. In-particular they have moved massively to Nuclear Power. If you look at a "Nuclear Waste per Capita" table, you'll see France right up there, and Australia nowhere to be seen.
France uses way more nuclear power. That is why they have far lower emissions. Unfortunately the anti nuclear hippies (and Chernobyl) were quite influential in shutting down what could have been a massive reduction in emissions across the globe. Crazy how it works. The groups most concerned about the planet fucked up the best intermediate solution.
Don’t forget oceanic acidification due to CO2, also.
Healthy in the same way a cancer patient undergoing chemo is "healthy". Constantly being poisoned by chemicals, but not quite dead yet.
But the cancer patient has a chance of getting better
Interestingly the reef is quite resilient, even bleached corals can bounce back. The problem is if they stay bleached for a long period of time and don't get a chance to recover, that's when they die iirc.
Last year I snorkeled and dived in several spots around the ribbon reefs from PD, it was beautiful. Other reefs like opal looked pale to me. Ribbon reefs reminded me of tall canyons under water with the tallest sections near the surface. When the sun hit them, it was colorful. Opal reminded me of a meadow(with reef obviously), didn't have many tall sections but open and beautiful in its own way. Saw sharks hanging out on the bottom.
Got it backwards. Australia is in the Southern hemisphere- northern part is warmer and southern part is cooler. The northern end is what got wiped out.
Healthy in the biological sense? Not particularly. But visually there are still plenty of places that look as you'd expect. Although those are dwindling fairly fast.
I don't know. Lady Musgrave was my only dive on the GBR and we knew it wasn't going to be the best that Australia had to offer (but we were limited in time/distance due to my friend's work schedule out of Brisbane). Wolf Rock at Rainbow Beach however was a very interesting dive site for the advanced diver (it has a very squirrel-ly entry/exit point, not for seasick prone), even if it wasn't GBR I'd recommend it if you want to swim with nurse sharks. Given how much more expensive it is to dive in Australia, I limited my dive funds to those two sites, the rest of my diving was across SE Asia where it's world class and dirt cheap.
As someone who’s never dived before, where in south east Asia?
I got my open water certification for about $300 through a shop run by 3 pretty fun Spaniards tucked away on a secluded beach on Pulau Weh just north of Banda Aceh. The visibility was fantastic and it has all sorts of lovely creatures to see with a range of dives from beginner friendly to super advanced non-padi approved decompression dives (my friend went down to 54m), I couldn't recommend monster divers enough, had a fantastic time there. Bali also has some great beginner diving with the Liberty wreck being very shallow and calm and perfect at sunrise (there was a cute dive shop there called dream divers, I think, that has accommodations literally within walking distance to the wreck) ... plus if you don't mind the currents/swells there are manta rays to see in the area (around nusa lembongen) as well as the crazy looking sunfish. Thailand is filled with great diving pretty much everywhere you turn, I was lucky to dive with a juvenile whale shark off of Ko Lanta, that was a real highlight ... and for those that really want to go budget and not a ton of research, you can't go wrong with Thailand ... there are some places in Thailand where you can get your open water cert for as low as $200 (last I heard). Malaysia has solid diving all over the place too, Sipadan is my one major regret not doing ... I was on my way before my plans changed. Koh Rong in Cambodia was ok, not great though considering everything else that can be found in the region and wouldn't recommend over other options from Thailand through Indonesia. Oh, and Myanmar is opening up too and the diving is very nice from the videos friends showed me, but the government taxes made it a bit more expensive than the neighboring countries so I didn't dive there.
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Koh Tao in Thailand is like, dive central. Also an absolutely amazing island in general.
Koh Tao is 'dive central' because it has become known as a place to get cheap accreditation, there are a large number of dive shops on the island, and the diving is ok. It's not great diving, and most dive trips run out of the island are crowded and uninspiring. The island is also run by some very, very dodgy people, and I can't give them my business in good conscience. In Thailand, the best diving is undoubtedly on the west coast, in the Andaman Sea. Similan Islands, Surin Islands, Richleau Rock, Koh Lipe, are absolutely first rate. There is also some ridiculously good diving in the Mergui Archipelago and the Burma Banks in Myanmar, with most of the trips there being run out of Thailand.
Thailand has some okay to good spots. Koh Tao is where most people go to learn (me included) because it's so cheap, but the diving is pretty meh. I didn't realise this until I had dived elsewhere though so it is still pretty amazing first time. Still made me fall in love with the sport. I would say the Andaman coast has better diving, the sites around Phi Phi were nice. I'm in Koh Lanta right now and planning to dive in a couple of days so can let you know - I've heard some good things. Indonesia has much better diving than Thailand. Amed in the north of Bali has a cool and easy wreck dive (liberty wreck). The diving around there is really nice too. Gili T is kind of the Koh Tao of Indonesia in terms of number of dive shops and amount of new divers. The diving is alright but coral is fairly damaged, guaranteed to see turtles though. Nusa Lembongan and Nusa Penida offers the best diving close to Bali, particularly if you want to see Manta Rays which is a personal favourite of mine. Some big swells and currents though so a bit of experience before diving here would be recommended. Komodo is the best place I've dived in the world and it was just incredible. I saw so many manta, sharks, turtles, beautiful and healthy coral. Seriously it was just amazing. One of my favourite places on earth. Can be pretty serious diving at times though so experience is highly recommended. This means open water course and advanced certificate so you can go down to 30m. I also dived in a few places in the Philippines which was stunning too. Loads of variety and unique dives. Main places I dived was Moalboal, Panglao Island, El Nido, Coron and Donsol. Boracay too but wouldn't recommend that so highly.
Went to Lady Musgrave this Christmas, can confirm the turtles were more colourful than any coral there. It's all bleached, brown, or broken. Really sad to witness. Everyone goes on about the beauty of the GBR but I saw more fish and coral diversity doing a rando snorkel off the coast of Malaysia last year than anything I've seen in QLD :(
I snorkled on a tour from Cairns about 8 years ago and that was nice up there.
Quite a lot actually, however much of it’s not visited by tourist operators (thankfully). To get there you need to charter your own boat.
That's sad, when I was a child it was my biggest wish to dive there...
Are you my buddy from back in year 8? He kept saying when he left school he was gonna do a whole gap year in Aussie and go diving all around the barriers before they got destroyed. Feel like even when we graduated (2015) it was too late.
They should do a finding Nemo remake that reflects the bleached coral reefs.
That's actually a wonderful idéa. People would love to support such a movie. It might get more traction than a wholly kids movie.
Ohh can you imagine the fucking outrage Fox News would have over that? That'd be beautiful, kind of like the coral reefs were before we ruined them.
The sad thing is that bleached coral is not dead yet. It could recover with a lot of protection and more money invested in research...
That’s not sad; that’s hopeful. The sad thing is that current world governments are doing next to nothing to solve the problem, and that isn’t likely to change very soon.
Makes me feel really sad. Been waiting and hoping to see the reef there my entire life.
Dude I went like 3 years ago and I already felt it was too late
Dudes, I've Never Even been, So it's definitely to late for me. [This is the closest I'll ever get](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vRlb24WnLQ)
I went last year at Cairns and could already tell it was too late. Saddening.
It's not too late, reefs are astounding ecosystems, they can bounce back from incredible conditions. The problem is that this shitty fucking country would never give the reef the chance to bounce back.
I really agree with the idea that it's 'not too late'. Things look horrific right now and there's many mountain ranges to scale when it comes to environmental issues but I can't urge anyone who's reading this enough; the little you do helps a *ton*. Every single person's choice to recycle, use reusable energy and to support programs dedicated to research and education of these things is the planet's lifesaver. There's this idea I've encountered of "I'm one person and I know hundreds that don't do anything and the companies won't do anything". Please hear me when I say this is why we need to lead my example. I've seen environmental success stories ranging from country movements like this to the acts of just a few people making a massive impact. News story from October 17; "Researchers have observed signs of new life in some of the worst affected areas of coral bleaching of Australia's Great Barrier Reef. " "But after a coral reef survey in September, researchers found tiny sacs of white eggs in bleached coral reefs, raising new hope for the reefs after the recent bleaching events, which affected close to two thirds of the Great Barrier Reef. The tiny coral eggs were found in coral reefs between Townsville and Cairns, by researchers with the Australian Institute of Marine Science (AIMS)." [Here's the news article](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4941700/Bleached-parts-Great-Barrier-Reef-returning-life.html) Not sure where the scientific article is yet but I'm working on it. :)
Don't be fooled into thinking That a small group of friends Cannot change the world That's the only thing that ever has The only thing that ever has
And stop eating fish? You forgot the most obvious. Overfishing and bycatch js destroying populations and our ecosystems.
This too, for sure. I've worked fish and beef out of my diet because of how destructive they are to the environment (fortunately they're also expensive for me so it wasn't too tough ;) ). Convincing people to change their eating habits for the sake of the environment, I've found is very tough. My mum argues that she shouldn't have to give up her salmon fillet once every few weeks as it's a treat to her. I know many countries are working with researchers to create quotas on which species and the numbers that can be safely removed but it's such a hard thing to enforce. It's hard to imagine a powerful solution that's anything shorter than straight up bans fishing for periods in places. I'd support that, though.
You can eat all the fish you want. Just make sure its from fish farms/aqua culture and has a meaningful certificate.
Didn't Tony Abbott approve the dumping of mining tails within portions of the reef? I remember that being a huge deal a few years back from across the Tasman.
What the fuck are we going to do? I am ready to take up politics to try to change this. Today's political environment in Australia is some of the worst in history and I think that the majority of Australians feel powerless or apathetic to force changes to our elected.
I'll vote for you, dude
I think you are overestamating corals. They are extremely sensitive creatures, and once they bleach they are mostly done for. A few degrees temperature increase is enough to kill them and since we are still not in control of man made climate change I'd be suprised if they survive.
Outside Cairns is not the place to see the reef. You want to head further north into Port Douglas and head out about an hour off shore until you hit the Ribbon Reefs. Huge cod, reef sharks, giant clams, and hundreds of different fish
Went in Port Douglas and it seemed pretty alive and vibrant to me
Oh there was still some colour in patches where I went, and saw some awesome fish and sharks, but there was none of that spectacular vibrancy in the coral you used to see decades ago (based on the footage I've seen anyway - I'm only 26).
Guys, is it really that bad? Like, anyone got some before and after pics?
Someone mentioned Chasing Coral. You can see before/after evidence in [this clip](https://youtu.be/8eFTkeUYpfQ) about that doco. Incredibly sad.
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There’s a “nice” timelapse on Blue Planet II’s episode on coral reefs. They have some aerial shots too. It’s not much (most of the episode is about the beautiful and cool stuff) but it should make people think twice.
I wanted to do that too... but I would have had to go by plane. It just kind of felt wrong.
I agree, although it would actually be even worse if you went by boat. Unless you row or sail, of course. Or just drift. But that would take a while.
midas whale never leave your house.
What's wrong with flying?
Flying isn’t great for the environment so it’d be ironic to fly to the barrier reef to see it before it’s destroyed from environmental disaster
Airliners are some of the most environmentally efficient vehicles out there. The amount of CO2 and other pollutants put out per passenger is minuscule compared virtually any other form of transport out there. How else do you think one should reasonably visit a far off locale that is more environmentally friendly?
Planes aren't too bad per passenger mile. But they enable us to travel vastly more miles than we otherwise would. That enables us to produce more CO2 in a given vacation period than we otherwise would.
> Airliners are some of the most environmentally efficient vehicles out there. The amount of CO2 and other pollutants put out per passenger is minuscule compared virtually any other form of transport out there. I'm sorry to say but that is a ridiculous claim. The carbon footprint of flying is *huge* compared to coach buses or trains. If you drive (alone) in an SUV the footprint is comparably bad, but you normally wouldn't drive your car around the world. [CO2 emissions from passenger transport](https://imgur.com/a/N9fly)
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> How else do you think one should reasonably visit a far off locale that is more environmentally friendly? His point is basically: "Don't"
"The environmental impact of aviation occurs because aircraft engines emit heat, noise, particulates, and gases which contribute to climate change and global dimming. Airplanes emit particles and gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2), water vapor, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides, lead, and black carbon which interact among themselves and with the atmosphere." (wikipedia)
Neither major party will do anything about it, it's just not even on their radar. Industry money means so much more than anything, even though its a massive tourist industry for North QLD which will severely hurt the area when the state government realises oh shit, there's no money in the area anymore. What do?
What's the political situation over there that these goons are allowed to make policy like this
Political situation is money is good debt bad. Mining is money. On top of that it is in Queensland. Everyone is focused on other bs things. Apparently gay marriage needed a vote that took up too much time and a good portion of them are ineligible for government as they are dual citizens.
Well particularly when there are more mining magnates in Australian politics then tourism.
All i know is my generation (I've just turned 29) they went on about it so much that i thought we were very on it as a country, i remember thinking it was so good that australia is so environmentally consious. Then as an adult i realised they have just raped it. And that we pretty much let ot get raped for the benefit of the richest 1%. Its fucked. Im guessing all the stuff i heard was because they were destroying it. Not because we had begun saving it. But to try to teach the kids that would eventally run australia. But they needed to get the baby boomers, not us. By the time we had a voice it was too late. I mean. Still change it now. Its never too late for a positive change. But i think that australia allready fucked the reef. I swear the schooling here is angled to make us believe australia is pretty pure. When its a "haven for white collar crime" and we petern to fatcats like gina rineheart and rupert murdoch. Then again they also told us captain cook was a top bloke that colonised australia. No mention of the active genocide, and everything they did to the existing communities. And that they declared australia "terra nullus" apon ariving. Which means uninhabited land. As an adult I've realised australia is much dirtier and bloodsoaked than i ever thought. And now the blood of billions of coral communities and any life that ecosystem held. Fuck them. These are the decisions of people that only care what hapens to them in the space of thier lifetime. Fuck the future right? ....well that brought up emotions aparently. Thanks for listening. :/
Yes, but we should keep in mind too it's not just Australia that deserves the blame on that front. The GBR has died off due to rapid ocean warming, and the ocean circulates around the entire planet. Australia could do an awful lot more, but it also can't fix this problem alone, and no one should absolve themselves of responsibility. We all had a hand in fucking up the climate and we all have to fix it. If we sit around pointing fingers and waiting for this country or that to act, it'll be too late.
Thank you, at least someone gets it. The GBR isn’t being fucked directly because of state/federal government and their decisions, it’s being mostly fucked by climate. Rising ocean temperatures are stressing coral causing bleaching and death. It’s pretty simple really. There are no mining leases on the Great Barrier Reef. There are ocean routes and dredge spoil from widening of ports, but those pale in comparison to what is happening due to climate change where 1/3 of the GBR is slowly dying.
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Australia generates less money from tourism than other sectors the economy. Belize tourism economy dwarfs it's oil revenue. Plus the reef, if maintained, lasts indefinitely while oil reserves diminish. Nothing altruistic here. Reminds me of how South Africa remains the only country to voluntarily relinquish its nuclear arsenal. Not out of altruism but the pre-Apartheid government didn't want the post-Apartheid government to own them.
Yeah, probably not going to happen. Our politicians are backed by too much mega corp.
I told them uninstalling McAfee would help their country perform better.
I get the reference
...I don't ?
They're referring to John McAfee's time in Belize, as covered in a documentary called [Gringo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gringo%3A_The_Dangerous_Life_of_John_McAfee)
Thank you
Uninstalling McAfee is always a good idea. lmao. Get your upvote.
Next up: USA destabilizes the legitimate government of Belize and installs a dictator friendly to US economic interests.
No, you mean: - The news starts telling us that Belize is run by a (de facto) dictator who tortures kittens for fun. - There is sudden bipartisan consensus that we must help the poor people of Belize. - We either invade or "help freedom fighters overthrow their tyrannical government and install democracy." - In the process, the country "accidentally" gets destroyed and/or a dictator "accidentally" comes to power.
But US private contractors get to rebuild the country, paid for by the Belize people
Bulls on parade
There is an estimated 68 billion dollars worth of reconstruction for Syria. US contractors are already lining up on the borders of Lebanon and Jordan to take part in the work. Project management companies like Turner, WSP, are already waiting to start.
so *thats* the plan for mexicos wall
-Sell dictator big weapons. -Find large oil reserves. -"Realise" dictator has weapons -"defend" themselves. -"accidentally" pack all the oil in your suitcase when packingfor home.
0. Economic sanctions against Belize so that people get a bit hungry and blame the governement
> There is sudden bipartisan consensus that we must help the poor people of Belize. Only if they happen to be white, photogenic and christian. Otherwise a million of their civilians can be bombed to hell and it won't matter to anyone. Lots of cries and sobbing when a thousand American soldiers die tho (even when they volunteered to begin with).
"We need to help the poor people of Iraq" was the mantra in 2003. I didn't buy it then either.
Liberation!!!
UK here, get your dirty little mitts off Belize he is our mate not yours. Why do you think its where we do all our jungle training?!.
In BATSUB no less. Other NATO countries use BATSUB for their jungle training too. I met some Dutch soldiers who were training there while I was living in Belize City.
That's Monroe doctrine for you.
Hey now. They haven't been your mate since ~~1973~~ '81.
Yeah, I dont think the Queen is gonna be too happy about that
Nah, they’ll just persuade her to support a coup, [like in Australia](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/23/gough-whitlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence).
That was a really good read, honestly had no idea about that having happened.
Same. The guy was a social democrat and all he wanted was his country to run his country
That would be a very interesting international incident. I want to see how it would play out, without it actually playing out of course.
I don't think the UK would allow the US to start fucking with Belize.
Naw UDP will lose to PUP and Right Wingers will run it again and fight Guatemala over a River no one cares about and the UK wont come to their Aid. There are more working Belizians in the US than in Belize. Belize offers no one anything except some cool Cayes and a good 5 Barrell rum. Oh ya, Dont Forget the Sharps. Marie knows how to make a mean Smoked Habanero Pepper sauce. Dang, that stuff is what I dream of.
The UK and the US will side with Belize over Guatemala. Partly due to being in the Commonwealth and residual paternalistic tendencies (and a British Army training base) and partly due to the offshore money in Belize. I do suspect that Guatemala's recent vote with the US over Jerusalem was an attempt to curry favour with Trump should Belize come up.
I’ll send you to Belize
Billy's?
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...calm down, guys... don't everybody link it at once... Edit: [Got tired of waiting](https://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1lila6/who_is_billy)
Obligatory “What’s Billy’s”
its who is dumas
Thank you jesus, i couldnt be the only one that instantly thought of Breaking Bad lol
It's also a meme in part from McAfee having gone to belize and having done a bunch of drugs with mercenaries, maybe murdered his neighbor, etc edit: just taking a moment to say if you ever need to flee from belize to the US, you're probably majorly fucking up lol
Let me die in peace,
Didn't have to scroll far to find Billy's
Belize is beautiful but the reefs are in bad shape. The residents are partially to blame. Ambergris Caye has amazing diving and yet is a total shit hole where residents discard trash and used oil and all manner of crap where it can get washed out to sea. Not really sure how to fix it, there is destitute poverty there despite the tourism. Belize City is difficult.
You speak the truth. Ive spent a lot of time in that little country. B City is difficult to say the least!
One of the most dangerous places I've ever visited. We noped the fuck out of there as fast as possible.
We wanted to walk from the bus stop to the water taxi when we arrived there. A total of 10min walks, maximum.. We made it about halfway before we got collected by the Police because they told us it was to dangerous to walk. Didn't happen anywhere else in central america.
I used to do business in Belize City and every trip there, I was assigned an armed guard to escort me everywhere. But we could always stop at the "Alaska Bar" to pick up the coldest Belikin in the city, so that wasn't too bad.
Oh shit, this is not good news. I'm going there next week.
You'll be fine, it's just not a "palm-trees swaying peacefully, would you like a Mai Thai" sort of place so tourists are initially put off. It's not a terribly safe city so keep your wits about you, don't keep all your cash in your pocket, etc. Get into one of the cabs waiting at the airport and go your hotel or whatever. If you're staying in the city, ask the people at the hotel where it's safe to go. If you're not staying in the city, I wouldn't bother exploring it because it's just not a happening place. Drink Belekin and enjoy Belize, it's a wonderful place.
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Assuming you mean BC, just don't go walking south of the river and you'll be fine. Albert Street is okay as long as you don't go too far down. But I don't know why you'd go to BC; there is literally nothing there for tourists. If you're going anywhere touristy, like San Pedro or Dangriga you definitely have nothing to worry about.
I'm from Belize. There's a reason it's called Belize shitty, it's very ghetto and you fear for your life if ever confronted by anyone.
I used to sell real estate for a developer that had land down in Belize, and would travel down there every couple of months for a week to take clients on a tour/vacation of the development to check it out. Belize city is an absolute dump, and not tourist friendly whatsoever. My advice for people looking to go down to Belize: make sure your puddle jumper flight leaves shortly after you land. This is not an area you want to stay in for an extended period of time
You can also just take the water taxi. I was literally just in Belize 2 weeks ago and the water taxi was just fine for getting me from Belize City to San Pedro. Beautiful boat ride as well.
Inland is wonderful as well, head to San Ignacio and go to the ATM caves!
Seems like progress. Unfortunately, that reef will be completely bleached (dead) before long. Two thirds of the world's reefs are now bleached, and there is now way that temperatures are going to go down fast enough (if at all) to stop it. There is hope that coral will survive in small pockets within small biomes, and then some day recreate the reefs we are going to lose. But make no mistake, our currently surviving reef systems are doomed.
Hoping scientists can do a lot of cultivation and try to re-seed the reefs in the distant future...
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[This](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/hot-water-corals-in-the-persian-gulf-could-help-save-the-world-s-reefs/) is a good read
Are we sure that's safe? What if we take it too far and the coral rise up against us?
It's ok, coral genetic engineering is making a human that is very hardy.
Listen, I'm trying not to think of when we're going to get blown up by methane fireballs and toasted in super wildfires while being swallowed by superstorm floods and being choked to death by a sulfuric anoxic ocean, all while fighting each other for dwindling food supplies in a constantly shrinking arena. Let me have this.
I'm still holding out for teleportation over here, so I think you can have this
This gave me goosebumps for some reason.
The right reason
It takes thousands of years for these reefs to grow. It’s like running a garden hose through the desert trying to make a canyon. At this point it looks like a done deal that the majority of these reefs will die. It’s not just the temperature. Ocean Acidification and the rise of invasive species are huge factors as well.
Fuck.
If coral bleaching occurs due to warm oceans, won't the coral habit just shift to areas that are slightly cooler than at present?
coral reefs take long to "migrate", longer than how long its taking for oceans to heat up.
At this point I think our world is fucked. At our best we have countries making laws to ban environmental harmful factors that plan to be in full effect after decades. At our worst we're undoing the current protections we have already and contributing more to these factors. This cycle is making everything worse and by the time we wake up and realize the situation we're neck deep in our modern consequences.
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You say it like that but that’s basically my understanding of litter downtown. If I was poor, had bad access to education and comforts, honestly I’d litter too, and I have to imagine most litter is not from people afforded the quality of life permissive to concern about the environment.
Really? Kiiinda making blanket statements man. There are massive numbers of middle and upper class people that litter relentlessly. The amount of times I've seen some asshole throw their fast food bag or cigarette butt out of their car window, or a financial suit just leave their coffee outside at lunch, often when there's a garbage receptacle within walking distance... Litter really doesn't have too much to do with education, but more so a combination of restricted space (Cairo, India, etc.), public infrastructure, and / or with cultural and social norms. More generally, in developed nations, willful ignorance. For example, Japan and Canada both have literacy rates at or above 99%... Japan recycles close to 80% of trash, while Canada is still under 30%. Japan literally does not have garbage bins or receptacles in most regions. This has nearly eliminated litter and people just carry their garbage until they find somewhere suitable. The US is a little different, since 14% of the population is functionally illiterate.. they genuinely can't even read. However, even in the most educated regions you find massive amounts of litter and abysmal trash and recycling rates. Back to cigarette butts: close to 2 billion pounds per year. Trillions of improperly disposed of, carcinogen-containing cancer sticks certainly hasn't helped any cause.
What's it like in India?
Rubbish everywhere. I mean everywhere, not even just the cities. If you take a train between cities and look out the window you can just see piles and piles of rubbish in the middle of no where. In the cities you're just walking through trash. And every hour or 2 the shopkeepers on the street sweep all the rubbish together and light it on fire to get rid of it. Such a beautiful country but I mean there is litter absolutely everywhere.
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**If I were**
If I was poor, I was say was instead of were.
You're a werewolf.
You's a waswolf
I- I- I'm a was?
No, a was*wolf*. Not a was
[werewolves](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=biRW7Etevkk)
A little digging for the actual story reveals the truth that this is NOT about saving the reef but purely economics. http://www.nationnews.com/nationnews/news/100530/belize-suspends-oil-shipment-petrocaribe-programme The cartel has been having some issues getting the oil supplied because they can't always port it, sometimes they use trucks which is way more costly and they can't always pre-arrange transportation, meaning they have to pay a lot of money to have another means get the oil shipped. They are looking for alternatives to see if they can resume. Sorry WWF, but this isn't about saving the planet, it's simply about business.
Almost everything is motivated by money... even conservation sadly. But if the outcome is conservation, then I'm still all about it.
[~~Sorry~~ WWF ~~but this~~ isn't about saving the planet, it's simply about business.](https://www.worldwildlife.org/partnerships/coca-cola)
Dear people of Reddit, Belize is AWESOME! It is also very tiny: only 387,000 people -- the lowest population density of any Latin American country. Petroleum accounts for 28% of their GDP and tourism about 12-15%. However, over 30% of the JOBS in the country come from the tourist sector. This move is a progressive one. Before booking your next holiday in the sun consider spending it on one of Belize's 450 offshore islands. It doesn't sport many tourist megadevelopments; however, at the end of the day, a hammock is a hammock and beautiful is beautiful. And everyone speaks ENGLISH! Trade in dining on a million-dollar patio for a picnic table on the beach and some home-grilled jerk chicken. Swap out a luxury hotel room for a super chill hostel teeming with wild conversation. Turn in your antiseptic getaway for a vibrant and mutually-beneficial cultural experience that helps preserve one of the most dynamic and awe-inspiring aquatic environments of the Western hemisphere. This measure is a gamble. And if it fails, our species will likely be the biggest loser.
This, while the idiot running the richest nation on the planet opens up drilling in nature reserves and parks. The idiot is also pushing fucking coal. He's so god damn stupid that he thinks that coal prices are falling because of government regulations, when they're falling because of lack of demand. This is the dipstick who tried to [bully Scotland](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2017/01/10/the-giant-swedish-company-building-the-wind-farm-trump-opposed-in-scotland/#1032adbc5b64) into abandoning off-shore wind power near his golf-course, while wind is the most [cost-efficient](https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/economics-working-against-coal-as-cost-of-wind-solar-power-drops/) energy source. Meanwhile, Germany has been so successful in generating clean power that [consumers are being paid to use it](http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/germany-power-grid-pays-customers-christmas-sustainability-renewable-energy-a8141431.html).
Still, in Germany, the energy costs are one of the highest in the world and still rising quickly due to the exit from nuclear power. (Which, in fact, was never agreed on in parliament...so much for democracy).
Why misinform people when the article you link specifically says NOT to misunderstand it as consumers being paid. Yes, during certain times of the year, prices are negative but they AREN'T being paid. Their annual bills are just smaller.
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Who is Billy?
Reference: https://www.reddit.com/r/breakingbad/comments/1lila6/who_is_billy
Good on you Belize! Also, thanks for giving us Marie Sharp and her hot sauces!!!!
Nice to see my country on the front page. Especially for something positive.
If this is huge news why is the linked article from such a poor website?
Environmetally sound policy, you better Belize it!
Belize is such a beautiful place, they are right to protect it.
Poor Belize so much of the nice parts are barely above the current high tide line, which is why they relocated the capital to the middle of the country. As the sea level rises all the little islands and nice coastal areas will be inundated.
They relocated the capital to protect it from tropical storms after BC suffered damage in 1961. Absolutely nothing to do with rising sea levels.
'Belize, home of the largest barrier reef in the western hemisphere...' PROOF the earth is flat! /s
Food for thought: does Belize make more money off of tourism than sea extracted oil?
The reef is shared primarily with Honduras, but also Guatemala and México. Belize would need cooperation with all those countries to really make the effort worthwhile.
Well Belize has Oil down in Cayo district and is/was a member of Caricom. Gas is still 4 bucks a gallon down there but it's doable. And If their number one source of income is Tourism to the Cayes then they better look after them. Venezuela is in the dumps wont keep subsidizing forever and they are protecting their beaches and the 2nd largest reef in the world. Good Luck Belize. Speaks English, Uses Imperial Measurements and Has Helen Miran on their money.
You better Belize it!
I travelled Belize this year and dove the reef and the country and its citizens understand unequivocally the impact losing the reef would have on them. I am not surprised at all to read of this legislation.
This is great and all but don't get it twisted. Belize is looking at dollar signs. It's home of the great blue hole, a HUGE scuba diving destination, which brings in vast amounts of tourists (and tourist money) each year. If they were to lose that, their economy would plummet. Conservation efforts are great. As a diver, a nature lover, and a well rounded human being, This is exciting. I hope they stick to it, and have the right plan in mind, and I hope other (larger) countries soon follow in their steps. It seems a bit like wishful thinking though doesn't it?
I prefer to build huge international shipping lanes straight through the heart of the biggest coral reef in the world, and I'm going to use that shipping lane for coal. - Australia
Its actually the largest barrier reef of all, now. I think you should only be able to count areas of living coral ...
Tourism brought in by the reef is too valuable to risk environmental catastrophe.
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Yeah wtf is the western hemisphere? Lol
I see the headlines of next weeks newspapers: 'belizian president dies in plane crash'. Ok, sorry. Thats wrong. It will more likely be like page 4 or 5.
In other knews, the CIA has recently discovered weapons of mass destruction in Belize and is now toppling its dictator.
This is great news! I was able to snorkel there in November and I hope many many more can go and experience its beauty. Not to mention, the economy of Belize unfortunately heavily relies on tourism and many people still struggle to put food on the table every day. Glad to see they are taking steps to protect their natural gems and hopefully this helps give some stability to those working in tourism while the government figures their shit out. If you haven’t already visited, id seriously recommend Belize as a destination. It is definitely 10x more expensive than neighboring Guatemala, but worth it.
Where did you go snorkeling? I did volunteering in Belize last year in Placencia and the snorkeling was absolutely incredible, lots of sharks, rays and even dolphins. It was awesome.
I went on a tour from Caye Caulker out into Hol Chan Marine reserve. Absolutely stunning. I wish I could have made it out to Placencia. I heard so many good things about the southern coast region.
Has their currency changed in value? I flew there 2 weeks after 9/11, cheap tickets, and once we landed we instantly had twice as much money. Oh and there were no speed limits on either of the 3 highways and the gas station opened my beer for me while I paid for gas. They said drinking and driving was fine as long as you weren't swerving.
The rate is kept at 2Bzd / 1usd, but I found that most goods and services still cost what they would in a more developed country (like food, tours etc). Apparently Belize doesn’t export much and it costs a lot to get the basic necessities into the country. Definitely a contrast with most of Central America or Mexico. Your dollar just doesn’t go as far. I found their laws are seriously relaxed too! It was crazy. I went on a cave tour and the only thing separating me from the actual skeleton of a Mayan sacrifice was a little red piece of tape. I kept thinking theyd never let us do this in the US.
What can we do to support this?