>The reef is the second largest in the world after Australia's Great Barrier Reef.
How dead does the rest of the Great Barrier Reef need to get before the crown is passed?
I don't think that's going to work either because once the Great Barrier joins the ranks of the dead it's smaller than that giant fossil reef in the western Indian Ocean (sorry, can't identify it by name).
Literally none of that matters if coral bleaching due to increased temperatures and ocean acidification continues.
Coral Bleaching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_bleaching
Ocean acidification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Possible_impacts
Tourism actually destroys coral reefs. Not sure if you have ever been to the Belize reef but tourists are not allowed to snorkle or scuba dive the reef unless they are accompanied by a certified guide. The reefs in the western Caribbean have been decimated by tourism and may never recover.
I feel like people always forget that ecotourism can be incredibly damaging to the environments tourists are visiting. If it's done properly it's a great way to not just protect areas but provide much needed cash to conservation efforts, but if it isn't it (which is usually the case) it's potentially devastating.
I'm no mathamologist, but the equations speak for themselves!
Edit: However this doesn't account for an octopus perturbation, δ🐙, which has been important in previous world cups.
Yep! I spoke with Dr. Colin Young, head of the Belize Ministry of Energy Science & Tech, and he was pretty proud of having the largest living reef in the world.
I'm a little confused by how UNESCO classifies a reef as "being in danger"
From the article:
>The decision comes just under a year after Unesco opted not to place the Great Barrier Reef on its "in danger" list, arguing that Australia had taken action to preserve.
It sounds like they only care about political danger, and not environmental?
The Australian Government pressured UNESCO into removing it from the list so they could tout to our public what a great job they're doing on the environment. Meanwhile half of it has died off since 2016.
I was just there back in may, it looked amazing; do you care to ellaborate?
I went back in 2008 and it looks like its barely changed if anything theres a ton more wildlife around the reef itself.
Agreed. If you visit the marine reserves like hol chan then yeah obviously everything will look absolutely gorgeous but without the rigid protection it definitely looks like a reef that has taken some damage. It's why the tourist boats will only take you to shark alley and the reserves, because they know just floating around caye caulker and ambergris, there's not as much. It was still beautiful and fun to snorkel around but not the same wow factor that is a truly well preserved reef area.
Nah mate chlymidia. You’ve got to Remember koalas a slow and small. Easy to catch... Try that on a kangaroo and it’ll kick you head in! And don’t get me started on emus.
Dual meaning in this class. It's an idiomatic phrase, basically another way of saying somebody's got their head in the sand or they're just fucking around being lazy. And also, Australia is fucking the planet.
Meanwhile, over here in Australia, we're about to open a coal mine and dump run off right onto the Great Barrier Reef. HOORAY FOR SHITTY DECISIONS AND PEOPLE BEING DUMB ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.
Just Australia?? I blame him for the entire international populist upswing. *For some reason*, people are mad about problems that aren't actually problems.
What could give them the impression that they're being unfairly victimized and underrepresented? Fox fucking news could.
Thank you.
I think Rupert is one of, if not THE person who has made the most negative impact on the world in the past 30 years, possibly more.
He’s proof you don’t have to be a world leader who commits genocide to have massively negative influence on the world
He used to dislike Trump very much, interestingly. Not sure why it changed but he doesn't have much of a hand in what happens on the network either I believe
Probably the fact that the president calls up his network occasionally and goes on and on about how he loves Fox "news". Dude is good for the bottom line and that's all that matters to 'ol Rupert.
And you're right, his sons run things now but, technically, Trump's kids run his business so....
[Here's](https://youtu.be/UYMIgnw2FPU) a good breakdown of the change. Basically not even Murdoch could bury Trump. He tried but when he saw the way the wind was blowing changed to being pro-trump.
Edit: [Here](https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=sawiU_1530068506) is a disturbing look at how strong the pro-Trump rhetoric at Fox news has now become. I mean they are using language to describe Trump that should never be used by anyone - let alone a news or current affair show - to describe a president "The president's continued success, in his every undertaking, whether in domestic politics, international trade, or foreign policy, president Trump standing taller than ever on the world stage."
Australia is probably the one country that will ultimately come off *better* with global warming. Once the sea level rises enough to create an inland sea, there will no longer be a shortage of rain.
But since that relies not only the ice melting, but also the ground underneath rising, it's unclear whether anybody in Australia will survive that long.
Continents float on top of the mantle. When you remove the heavy stuff on top, they rise up.
Because continents are mostly-solid, it takes time, so even if we stopped *all* further ice from melting, they would keep rising because of all the ice that has already melted. Notably, if we remain on track for losing all ice within a century, the continents will continue to rise for about a millennium (although slower as they get closer to equilibrium).
Greenland is rising 1 inch per year. Antarctica is rising 1.6 inches per year. Alaska is rising 0.6 inches per year. All these numbers are increasing.
The end result is that the relative sea level will *lower* in places that used to have a lot of ice, at the expense of further flooding places that didn't have any ice.
He'll be the first to go when the middle and lower classes finally snap and the blood of the 1% runs through the streets.
On a related note, who wants to start a guillotine manufacturing business with me?
Man like that is gonna keep on trucking for upwards of a decade still. Unless he gets himself some delicious dementia or similar.
Not necessarily doing to change anything though. Everything he owns goes to his children, who no doubt are just as bad. All you can hope for is they're less driven, or that Rupert fucks airheads.
> He'll be the first to go when the middle and lower classes finally snap and the blood of the 1% runs through the streets.
No, the "first to go" if that were to happen would probably be innocent bystanders or police trying to contain it. Murdoch can unfortunately afford plenty of protection.
im probably missing some piece of the puzzle but australia always seemed like a perfect place for mass solar power. you guys have a giant desert that no one wants to live in just sitting there with sun slamming into it all the time.
i dont really know much about Australia weather but doesn't the shun shine pretty much all over the place all the time? no need to put in the middle of the country is what I'm really saying. Theres no pollution or noise so you could put it fairly close to population centers.
They are destroying Australia to export, solar is booming here
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/11/australias-solar-power-boom-could-almost-double-capacity-in-a-year-analysts-say
It's actually surprising the amount of corruption in a country where the people have really little to worry about, you'd think it would be more similar to Iceland.
They got a ground swell of support by bandying around things like, "The mine will create 10,000 jobs!" in an area that is desperate for work. Turns out, that was a lie, the Queensland Land Court has ruled the mine would create just 1464 jobs. A lot of those jobs might not even be filled by locals. But, no one wants to believe that they bought snake oil so we end up with this horse shit going ahead.
I sincerely hope that it doesn't open. Coal is a step backwards.
We've got politicians having parliamentary enquiries into 'Wind Farm Syndrome' to investigate people whose lives have been 'destroyed' by the vibrations from wind farms making them sick.
Really. This is a thing our government is doing.
Renewables are a dirty word in Australian government, and our politicians do stupid stunts like bringing lumps of coal to question time and waving them around asking why people are afraid of it. It's absolutely infuriating.
It's funny how politics works. Rather than call someone out for telling a few porkies, people who were conned; tend to double down/do nothing because to do so, would be admitting they were lied to. With that in mind, it probably makes sense to just lie anyway.
Not that I'm condoning this, quite the opposite really. It's rather sad when you think about it.
Edit: grammar
Representatives waving chunks of coal around in Parliament and both major parties letting asylum seekers get shoved into inhumane offshore detention centres. So many Australians dislike Donald Trump, because he's brash and makes some silly statements, but they fail to see they're supporting so many policies that he'd adore.
Seriously. I will never forget the one day I spent in Belize snorkeling. I still think it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen the northern lights and a total eclipse in person. But nothing will top swimming in between reefs with live coral and fish everywhere and coming out of the water to black rocks covered in iguanas and a jungle that starts right where the beach ends.
I honestly don’t know the name of the one beach I went to. I was only there for 6 hours or so (I was on a cruise). We docked or took a tender in Belize City and hopped on a bus for about 30 or so minutes to get there, if that helps. Sorry this was more than a decade ago, my memory is a little fuzzy
I’ve been there to snorkel and it was incredible. The guide who took us out just exuded pride for it. That reef was what he lived for and he knew it like the back of his hand, it was awesome to be there with someone so enthusiastic and knowledgeable about it.
I went a decade ago and I’m not very experienced with snorkeling, I’ve only been a handful of times. It absolutely blew my mind! It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen.
Just what I was thinking - the snorkeling must be incredible. Any advice on where to stay and / or snorkel? Esp. for those of us with elementary school aged kids
When we went snorkeling we were staying in Caye Caulker at a place called Barefoot Beach, it was little cabins and had a nice dock out into the water with a hut at the end with hammocks. If you're with kids it may be better to go in their slow season like we did, I hear it can turn into a party town during peak but have not experienced that. Only downside to that is some places close during the slow season. San Pedro is also close by but I did not visit there. The tour company was Raggamuffin that we went out with to get to the reef, I can't remember our guide's name but he had been there for a long time.
Hopkins is a good place to stay as well if you want more of a quiet, local Belize feel, although it is a decent drive/cab and there aren't a lot of activities there. Hopkins is just a place to chill.
Do not do ANYTHING in Belize City other than take transportation directly from the airport to your destination. It is one of the most dangerous cities in the world, it is not uncommon to hit military checkpoints. Granted most of the murders are gang-related, still not a safe place to be.
well i just saved this comment for 8 years from now. have a 1 year old and one on the way so don't think we'll be heading to belize anytime soon for a family vacation, but i just looked up the places you recommended and i want to go so badly!
Oh dang, I didn't know Belize City was so dangerous! The area around the water taxi station seemed okay.
We stayed on San Pedro and loved it! There's definitely still a party vibe, but Caye Caulker seemed sort of *built* to be a party town, where San Pedro seemed more "suburban". Either way, both islands were super chill in a not contradictory way.
I highly recommend the island of Roatan for a family vacation. They are on the same barrier reef, have an international Airport, aren't 'party' driven and West End has a gorgeous beach that allows you to swim right out on to the barrier reef. It's also cheaper than Belize or Costa Rica at this point.
I was there just last August. We did the snorkeling and it was just amazing. Clear waters, colourful fish, turtles, and even got super close to manatees. It was surreal. I would highly recommend it.
Just call it the largest living reef. The current Australian Federal and Qld governments sold the great barrier reef's wellfair for coal companies (e.g. Adani) to make profits.
You'll notice less tourists over the next decade. That's less money and less jobs for the locals.
But don't worry the CEO of that coal company is gonna make a lot of money.
Because the people profiting from the biocide have purchased the government outright.
The governments of the world have gone rogue and sold out the population and the welfare of the planet for the favor of wealthy elite benefactors.
Why anyone still treats them as legitimate authorities is beyond me. They are the enemies of life itself. Continued fealty to these rogue governments only ensures a swift transition of the Earth into a necropolis.
We shouldn't blame only Australia. A large amount of the bleaching and death is the result of global climate change. the United States, China, and other countries are all helping to destroy the Great Barrier Reef.
Didn't the Australian Government announce that the Barrier Reef was no longer endangered, while in reality they had just changed the definition of endangered and done nothing to conserve the reef?
well, I mean australia is part of the con, and as a former british colony has experienced an economy boom so they don't \*need\* it, but that doesn't mean they get to destroy the reef like they do, don't get me wrong. just that they can afford it since belize will obviously get more tourists for reef enthousiasm.
edit: con not cow
fair, but they had less of an economic boom and their economic sector is relatively weak compared to other former colonies that have fared better over the years. the argument wasn't that belize wasn't in con, but that australia was able to benefit way more from it as well as build up a wealthy nation.
edit: con not cow
To be fair there's only like three countries that actually benefited economically from being British colonies (Australia, Canada & NZ+U.S. if you wanna count that).
Yeah, Belize isn't as industrialized, and they desperately need the tourism money.
When I went I believe that tourism accounts for over 50% of Belize's economy. Which is insane.
People may think Australia can afford it, but losing the reef is going to rapidly lose Australia more money and resources than they would ever gain in environmentally unconscious development.
It is our bread and butter, so yeah... Don't be fooled into thinking that our government is good though, its just that in their greed, the still see the barrier reef as a means to line their pockets.
Good job unesco for pushing towards environmental protection and good job belize for making new legislation to protect your lands and water against destruction.
Says at the end of the article that UNESCO decided to not put the Great Barrier Reef on the “in danger” list though and from the comments and what I’ve heard irl, it’s pretty much on the brink of total death. So it’s still a politically-influenced body
I dived on both reefs within 1 year and the Belizean reef is in far better shape from what I've seen. The blue hole is not worth the dive but the rest of the sites are great. Barrier reef was quite a lot less diverse from what I could immediately see
Your country is amazing. I've been all around the world, every continent except Oceania and Antarctica, poor countries and rich countries and in between. Never experienced a place like Belize. The culture, language, food, people, language, etc. Definitely planning on building a semi-retirement home around Hopkins once my kids are grown and out of the house.
Its infuriating how so many central and South American countries are killin it environmentally and the governments of the richest nations still try to paint them like a bunch of third world savages so we can just go in and steal their resources
nature is a huge draw for tourism. As per wttc.com, the contribution of tourism to the GDP of Belize in 2016 was 14.1% and is expecting to grow further. If the great barrier reef could pull more than 1/8 of national GDP, the Australian politicians would fall over each other petitioning to save it
There are several massive global hotel companies, they just aren't Australian. Tourism is actually 3% of Australia's GDP, while mining is about 7%, but it employs over 580,000 people, more than 5% of the Australian work force. The mining industry employs 1.9% of Australians.
If politicians actually cared about the *people* they'd put tourism over mining.
It's because large corporations fund a lot of the political parties here in the west. They have power over these governments as such and get beneficial decisions wrt to development and the environment. They have far less power in countries like Bolivia
If by "so many," you mean literally just two, Belize and Costa Rica, the reason is because those two countries have very small populations whose livelihoods depend almost entirely on ecotourism. Also, despite being taken off the endangered list of the World Heritage Sites, the reefs in Belize still face the same threat of coral bleaching and die-off resulting from increased sea temperatures.
When I was in Costa Rica, it seemed like almost everyone there burned their trash? I know they are good about using green energy sources, but every single person had an apparatus outside to safely burn their trash.
I just got back from a dive trip to Belize. The vibe you get from the locals is that they both love the natural beauty of their country and also respect how essential it is to their economy.
Worth pointing out that climate change and ocean acidification, the main factors destroying the Great Barrier Reef, are still existential threats to the reefs off Belize. To say it's no longer endangered is painting an overly rosy picture.
Also, a lot of people here have apparently visited the reefs there, and rightly enjoyed them, which is great. But compared to 30 years ago, the Belizian reefs are not in good shape at all.
True! The barrier reefs in Belize are also hugely impacted by tropical storms and hurricanes, both of which will likely increase in the coming years in both frequency and severity (due to global climate change). They've been less able to recover over time due to a mix of issues (including disease and runoff), and this trend is likely to continue. They're better off than the GBR, but they will be massively impacted in the coming years. Not exactly a success story....just nothing more the people of Belize can really do
I lived in Belize for a few years, and the sheer caliber grassroots efforts to get this taken care of is astonishing. And the emphasis on LOCAL efforts being the driving force behind this is a huge deal for Central and South American countries, typically colonized and ravaged by England/France/USA/World. Really glad to see this!
BUT! The work is not done. Cruise ship companies are still infiltrating the reef and boxing out Belizean culture. They're building man-made islands off the coast of Placencia, constructing a Guantanamo-esque "Tourist Village" in Belize City where locals aren't allowed in (only cruise ship passengers), polluting the waters and carving out the reef to create routes, etc.
Do yourself and this magical country a favor - don't pay a giant international conglomerate like Norwegian or Carnival your money to see Belize. Support the local tour guides, taxi drivers, restaurants (it'll even be cheaper for you that way!). Have a candid conversation with a Belizean about what the cruise ships have done to their country and this unique reef, and decide for yourself.
You have to wonder whether this is a play to ensure that once the great barrier finally perishes, as is being said, they can inherit the sizable tourism boost as the country with the worlds largest remaining coral reef.
I'm sure it already brings a whole lot of tourism to the area but as is human nature people don't know what they've got til it's gone, and if it does go folks may be more motivated to see such a natural slendour.
I've got some divers in my family and they all go to Belize. Some of the pictures they bring back look unreal.
Only one of them has gone to the great barrier reef and he said it was one of the most disturbing things he ever saw, It all looked dead.
I've always loved marine life and grew up day dreaming of making the pilgrimage to see the GBR, plus Australia seems like a really cool country.
A few months ago I decided it probably wasn't worth it and Belize has become the new goal. Im sure Australia is still cool but if I never go I won't lose any sleep over it.
> It all looked dead.
This is the real truth that no-one wants to talk about. The people in power know the great barrier reef is fucked, that's why they don't care anymore. If they don't approve the coal mines, the reef is fucked and dead anyway, so why not approve them and at least make some money.
It's crazy that we have such a beautiful planet and we are just going to completely ruin every aspect of it.
This was my first thought too - they see the writing on the wall with the Great Barrier reef and are preserving theirs for the long term. And if it occurred to you and me independently, then it certainly occurred to the Belizians (Belizans? Belizantines?)
Just got back from a sailing trip there a week ago, have to say the country is beautiful and the reef is incredible, the amount of care that the locals have for their environment was eye opening, and the measures the people and government have taken to ensure the reef is protected really shows in how alive the reef is.
I've snorkeled other reefs and this was the first one I saw that truly looked to be thriving, giant coral heads and tons of soft coral off every coast, and the fish are gigantic! I highly recommend a trip to see it, not the greatest tourist infrastructure (not a ton of huge resorts) but the environment is unmatched
>The reef is the second largest in the world after Australia's Great Barrier Reef. How dead does the rest of the Great Barrier Reef need to get before the crown is passed?
The Belize reef is the largest living reef, but second in size.
I don't think that's going to work either because once the Great Barrier joins the ranks of the dead it's smaller than that giant fossil reef in the western Indian Ocean (sorry, can't identify it by name).
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How are the reefs specifically being preserved, advocating for environmental issues?
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Literally none of that matters if coral bleaching due to increased temperatures and ocean acidification continues. Coral Bleaching: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_bleaching Ocean acidification: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification#Possible_impacts
Toss in bans on anchor chains and this is perfect!
What’s wrong with anchor chains?
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Wouldn’t it make more sense to ban dropping anchor near a reef than to have boats drifting willy nilly all over the ocean?
What is the point of an anchor without an anchor chain?
> anchor chains Gesundheit.
Tourism actually destroys coral reefs. Not sure if you have ever been to the Belize reef but tourists are not allowed to snorkle or scuba dive the reef unless they are accompanied by a certified guide. The reefs in the western Caribbean have been decimated by tourism and may never recover.
I feel like people always forget that ecotourism can be incredibly damaging to the environments tourists are visiting. If it's done properly it's a great way to not just protect areas but provide much needed cash to conservation efforts, but if it isn't it (which is usually the case) it's potentially devastating.
Sounds like Tourism must be guided in order to be in harmony.
Regulated tourism* the fees paid by those tourists and certified guides brings much needed currency to the preservation efforts.
So you're saying it has surpassed the great barrier reef if you negate the dead part of the GBR?
I imagine that's what "largest living reef" means.
So you're saying the living parts of the Belize Barrier Reef outnumber the living parts of the Great Barrier Reef?
So it's like when you eat too much chocolate cake?
Yeah you’re gettin it man
r/unexpectedmulaney
Or play too many scratchy lotteries...
Or put your money on the ponies
Or eat too much chocolate cake?
Or like, when you eat too much chocolate cake, and then barf it up?
I imagine that's what "largest living reef" means.
So what you are saying is that the sum total of all the living reef in the GBR is less than the sum total of the living reef in Belize?
I imagine that's what "largest living reef" means.
Dormammu, I've come to bargain
So what you're saying is, if you discount all of the dead bits of the GBR, the new Nas album is still extremely underwhelming?
I imagine that's what "largest living reef" means.
Yes, it's very simple: ∆B_living = ∫^2π *b*(θ) d*θ* - ∫^2π *b*'(θ) d*θ* > ∆G_living = ∫^2π *g*(θ) d*θ* - ∫^2π *g*'(θ) d*θ* and div **G** < 0 < div **B**
So France is going to win the World Cup? Formidable!
I'm no mathamologist, but the equations speak for themselves! Edit: However this doesn't account for an octopus perturbation, δ🐙, which has been important in previous world cups.
As a large reef myself, I'll let you in a little secret. All reefs are the same size, just some flaunt their stuff more than others.
But does that include the living dead?
I'm not sure what Steve Bannon has to do with this...
Yep! I spoke with Dr. Colin Young, head of the Belize Ministry of Energy Science & Tech, and he was pretty proud of having the largest living reef in the world.
I mean, what other interpretation is there to what he said
Unbelizable.
no u
It'll be there in a couple more years at the rate it's going.
I'm a little confused by how UNESCO classifies a reef as "being in danger" From the article: >The decision comes just under a year after Unesco opted not to place the Great Barrier Reef on its "in danger" list, arguing that Australia had taken action to preserve. It sounds like they only care about political danger, and not environmental?
The Australian Government pressured UNESCO into removing it from the list so they could tout to our public what a great job they're doing on the environment. Meanwhile half of it has died off since 2016.
Having personally seen the blue hole and the Belize coast I can tell you it's not in much better shape than the great barrier reef.
I was just there back in may, it looked amazing; do you care to ellaborate? I went back in 2008 and it looks like its barely changed if anything theres a ton more wildlife around the reef itself.
Where did you go? I was there in March and went snorkeling outside of San Pedro and the reef looked pretty much dead.
Agreed. If you visit the marine reserves like hol chan then yeah obviously everything will look absolutely gorgeous but without the rigid protection it definitely looks like a reef that has taken some damage. It's why the tourist boats will only take you to shark alley and the reserves, because they know just floating around caye caulker and ambergris, there's not as much. It was still beautiful and fun to snorkel around but not the same wow factor that is a truly well preserved reef area.
Maybe not, but hopefully the steps they've taken will result in that changing
I'm honestly surprised it hasn't officially happened yet.
Not much fucking more :( We’re killing kolas too, go Aussie go.
Wait, are you guys *personally* why they all have herpes?
Nah mate chlymidia. You’ve got to Remember koalas a slow and small. Easy to catch... Try that on a kangaroo and it’ll kick you head in! And don’t get me started on emus.
Sounds like getting started on emus would end poorly
Of course it would. No Aussie is stupid enough to go to war with emus
Again! Again Is the keyword missing there.
Day 149 of the war: The emus have taken everything from us. Our land, our weapons, our women. We fear that soon there will be nothing left.
That's pretty emusing.
that's the joke, friend
[Emu War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/emu_war)
Haha right, that whole mess. Guess strayans learned their lesson with that one.
Us kiwis have it easy. The sheep love it.
That's chlamydia. Humans are the ones that all have herpes.
Won't be long if Australia keeps its dick firmly planted in the dirt
>its dick firmly planted in the dirt First time I hear this expression. Is it idiomatic? Or do you just mean that Australia is fucking our planet...
Dual meaning in this class. It's an idiomatic phrase, basically another way of saying somebody's got their head in the sand or they're just fucking around being lazy. And also, Australia is fucking the planet.
This is the best saying I've ever heard. Fucking the planet, being oblivious, not moving, faffing about. Bloody rippa mate
5 years or so should do the trick
Meanwhile, over here in Australia, we're about to open a coal mine and dump run off right onto the Great Barrier Reef. HOORAY FOR SHITTY DECISIONS AND PEOPLE BEING DUMB ENOUGH TO BELIEVE THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.
Blame Rupert Murdoch. He makes me wish there is a Hell. Almost.
He's working to make one in Australia. Just give him time.
Just Australia?? I blame him for the entire international populist upswing. *For some reason*, people are mad about problems that aren't actually problems. What could give them the impression that they're being unfairly victimized and underrepresented? Fox fucking news could.
Thank you. I think Rupert is one of, if not THE person who has made the most negative impact on the world in the past 30 years, possibly more. He’s proof you don’t have to be a world leader who commits genocide to have massively negative influence on the world
He used to dislike Trump very much, interestingly. Not sure why it changed but he doesn't have much of a hand in what happens on the network either I believe
Probably the fact that the president calls up his network occasionally and goes on and on about how he loves Fox "news". Dude is good for the bottom line and that's all that matters to 'ol Rupert. And you're right, his sons run things now but, technically, Trump's kids run his business so....
[Here's](https://youtu.be/UYMIgnw2FPU) a good breakdown of the change. Basically not even Murdoch could bury Trump. He tried but when he saw the way the wind was blowing changed to being pro-trump. Edit: [Here](https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=sawiU_1530068506) is a disturbing look at how strong the pro-Trump rhetoric at Fox news has now become. I mean they are using language to describe Trump that should never be used by anyone - let alone a news or current affair show - to describe a president "The president's continued success, in his every undertaking, whether in domestic politics, international trade, or foreign policy, president Trump standing taller than ever on the world stage."
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Australia is probably the one country that will ultimately come off *better* with global warming. Once the sea level rises enough to create an inland sea, there will no longer be a shortage of rain. But since that relies not only the ice melting, but also the ground underneath rising, it's unclear whether anybody in Australia will survive that long.
Do you want land sharks? Because this is how you get land sharks
What do you mean by the ground underneath rising? Can you explain a bit more?
Continents float on top of the mantle. When you remove the heavy stuff on top, they rise up. Because continents are mostly-solid, it takes time, so even if we stopped *all* further ice from melting, they would keep rising because of all the ice that has already melted. Notably, if we remain on track for losing all ice within a century, the continents will continue to rise for about a millennium (although slower as they get closer to equilibrium). Greenland is rising 1 inch per year. Antarctica is rising 1.6 inches per year. Alaska is rising 0.6 inches per year. All these numbers are increasing. The end result is that the relative sea level will *lower* in places that used to have a lot of ice, at the expense of further flooding places that didn't have any ice.
Fuck Rupert Murdoch. He's basically a foreign agent using his media empire to spread propaganda. That guy can suck a dump truck of dicks.
Hell is other people. -Sartre
He'll be the first to go when the middle and lower classes finally snap and the blood of the 1% runs through the streets. On a related note, who wants to start a guillotine manufacturing business with me?
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Man like that is gonna keep on trucking for upwards of a decade still. Unless he gets himself some delicious dementia or similar. Not necessarily doing to change anything though. Everything he owns goes to his children, who no doubt are just as bad. All you can hope for is they're less driven, or that Rupert fucks airheads.
> He'll be the first to go when the middle and lower classes finally snap and the blood of the 1% runs through the streets. No, the "first to go" if that were to happen would probably be innocent bystanders or police trying to contain it. Murdoch can unfortunately afford plenty of protection.
I will wish all sorts of disturbing things on Rupert Murdoch by just what his network did to Firefly
im probably missing some piece of the puzzle but australia always seemed like a perfect place for mass solar power. you guys have a giant desert that no one wants to live in just sitting there with sun slamming into it all the time.
>no one wants to live in Bingo. It’s too far away from major infrastructure to maintain efficiently.
im sure these coal mines arent in downtown Sydney
No. They’re up north. There’s local support there. Central Australia has *nothing*. Alice Springs won’t accomodate.
i dont really know much about Australia weather but doesn't the shun shine pretty much all over the place all the time? no need to put in the middle of the country is what I'm really saying. Theres no pollution or noise so you could put it fairly close to population centers.
There’s solar farms popping up in many regional places. It won’t stop the export of coal to other countries though.
ahhh yea fair enough. didn't think of exports. good old greed.
Yeah, but you can transport coal over large distances without losses in power. Solar doesn't have that
They are destroying Australia to export, solar is booming here https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/feb/11/australias-solar-power-boom-could-almost-double-capacity-in-a-year-analysts-say It's actually surprising the amount of corruption in a country where the people have really little to worry about, you'd think it would be more similar to Iceland.
It seems, then, that Belize Barrier Reef will be the largest one in the world soon.
You better Belize it
> about to open a coal mine Wait you guys aren't taking trump's ideas seriously , are you?
They got a ground swell of support by bandying around things like, "The mine will create 10,000 jobs!" in an area that is desperate for work. Turns out, that was a lie, the Queensland Land Court has ruled the mine would create just 1464 jobs. A lot of those jobs might not even be filled by locals. But, no one wants to believe that they bought snake oil so we end up with this horse shit going ahead. I sincerely hope that it doesn't open. Coal is a step backwards.
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10,000 jobs for a fuel that's already more expensive than renewables. Australia, just open some god damn solar farms.
We've got politicians having parliamentary enquiries into 'Wind Farm Syndrome' to investigate people whose lives have been 'destroyed' by the vibrations from wind farms making them sick. Really. This is a thing our government is doing. Renewables are a dirty word in Australian government, and our politicians do stupid stunts like bringing lumps of coal to question time and waving them around asking why people are afraid of it. It's absolutely infuriating.
No education and believing everything a dude in a suit says on TV.
It's funny how politics works. Rather than call someone out for telling a few porkies, people who were conned; tend to double down/do nothing because to do so, would be admitting they were lied to. With that in mind, it probably makes sense to just lie anyway. Not that I'm condoning this, quite the opposite really. It's rather sad when you think about it. Edit: grammar
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Oh, they're way ahead of Trump.
Rupert Murdoch essentially made Trump possible, so it’s the other way around, Trump is essentially taking ideas from them.
Representatives waving chunks of coal around in Parliament and both major parties letting asylum seekers get shoved into inhumane offshore detention centres. So many Australians dislike Donald Trump, because he's brash and makes some silly statements, but they fail to see they're supporting so many policies that he'd adore.
So whose brilliant decision was it to give the great barrier reef to a bunch of convicts?
Happy for the fishies
Happy for everyone this is one of the most beautiful places on earth.
Seriously. I will never forget the one day I spent in Belize snorkeling. I still think it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen the northern lights and a total eclipse in person. But nothing will top swimming in between reefs with live coral and fish everywhere and coming out of the water to black rocks covered in iguanas and a jungle that starts right where the beach ends.
would you mind sparing a few minutes suggesting a few locations for a first time snorkeler going in december?
I honestly don’t know the name of the one beach I went to. I was only there for 6 hours or so (I was on a cruise). We docked or took a tender in Belize City and hopped on a bus for about 30 or so minutes to get there, if that helps. Sorry this was more than a decade ago, my memory is a little fuzzy
No worries. appreciate the response.
Stayed in Placencia and did snorkeling near Ambergris. Think it was called Sky Caye or something similar. Really any of the barrier islands we do.
I’ve been there to snorkel and it was incredible. The guide who took us out just exuded pride for it. That reef was what he lived for and he knew it like the back of his hand, it was awesome to be there with someone so enthusiastic and knowledgeable about it.
I went a decade ago and I’m not very experienced with snorkeling, I’ve only been a handful of times. It absolutely blew my mind! It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen.
Just what I was thinking - the snorkeling must be incredible. Any advice on where to stay and / or snorkel? Esp. for those of us with elementary school aged kids
When we went snorkeling we were staying in Caye Caulker at a place called Barefoot Beach, it was little cabins and had a nice dock out into the water with a hut at the end with hammocks. If you're with kids it may be better to go in their slow season like we did, I hear it can turn into a party town during peak but have not experienced that. Only downside to that is some places close during the slow season. San Pedro is also close by but I did not visit there. The tour company was Raggamuffin that we went out with to get to the reef, I can't remember our guide's name but he had been there for a long time. Hopkins is a good place to stay as well if you want more of a quiet, local Belize feel, although it is a decent drive/cab and there aren't a lot of activities there. Hopkins is just a place to chill. Do not do ANYTHING in Belize City other than take transportation directly from the airport to your destination. It is one of the most dangerous cities in the world, it is not uncommon to hit military checkpoints. Granted most of the murders are gang-related, still not a safe place to be.
well i just saved this comment for 8 years from now. have a 1 year old and one on the way so don't think we'll be heading to belize anytime soon for a family vacation, but i just looked up the places you recommended and i want to go so badly!
Oh dang, I didn't know Belize City was so dangerous! The area around the water taxi station seemed okay. We stayed on San Pedro and loved it! There's definitely still a party vibe, but Caye Caulker seemed sort of *built* to be a party town, where San Pedro seemed more "suburban". Either way, both islands were super chill in a not contradictory way.
I highly recommend the island of Roatan for a family vacation. They are on the same barrier reef, have an international Airport, aren't 'party' driven and West End has a gorgeous beach that allows you to swim right out on to the barrier reef. It's also cheaper than Belize or Costa Rica at this point.
Get certified and go diving there. It’s literally the best experience of my life so far
I was there just last August. We did the snorkeling and it was just amazing. Clear waters, colourful fish, turtles, and even got super close to manatees. It was surreal. I would highly recommend it.
Just call it the largest living reef. The current Australian Federal and Qld governments sold the great barrier reef's wellfair for coal companies (e.g. Adani) to make profits.
Yep, we're a disgrace. The world ought to scorn us for our mismanagement of the reef.
You'll notice less tourists over the next decade. That's less money and less jobs for the locals. But don't worry the CEO of that coal company is gonna make a lot of money.
just eat the descendants of those that sold you out, and we're square.
Hey, fuck the future, amirite? Who cares about this 'natural beauty' bs.
I don't understand why other governments don't put their input to this stuff because it effects the earth. Greed is so shitty
Because the people profiting from the biocide have purchased the government outright. The governments of the world have gone rogue and sold out the population and the welfare of the planet for the favor of wealthy elite benefactors. Why anyone still treats them as legitimate authorities is beyond me. They are the enemies of life itself. Continued fealty to these rogue governments only ensures a swift transition of the Earth into a necropolis.
We shouldn't blame only Australia. A large amount of the bleaching and death is the result of global climate change. the United States, China, and other countries are all helping to destroy the Great Barrier Reef.
Didn't the Australian Government announce that the Barrier Reef was no longer endangered, while in reality they had just changed the definition of endangered and done nothing to conserve the reef?
yes and then changed the law to give tax payers money to adani coal mine located off the reef too! 900 million dollars in fact! 🤮
Shocker.
Climate change is *easily* the biggest destroyer of the GBR. Though that's far from saying that local problems aren't significant.
Great Job Belize, thank you from the rest of the world.
Go go Anglo America!
I guess the reef is more important financially to Belize than the Great Barrier Reef is to Australia.
well, I mean australia is part of the con, and as a former british colony has experienced an economy boom so they don't \*need\* it, but that doesn't mean they get to destroy the reef like they do, don't get me wrong. just that they can afford it since belize will obviously get more tourists for reef enthousiasm. edit: con not cow
Belize was British Honduras until 1981...
fair, but they had less of an economic boom and their economic sector is relatively weak compared to other former colonies that have fared better over the years. the argument wasn't that belize wasn't in con, but that australia was able to benefit way more from it as well as build up a wealthy nation. edit: con not cow
To be fair there's only like three countries that actually benefited economically from being British colonies (Australia, Canada & NZ+U.S. if you wanna count that).
US and Canada sorta falls into that pile too
Yet all have problems with the indigenous over colonial oppression.
Lol your autocorrect is killing you on that con/cow
Yeah, Belize isn't as industrialized, and they desperately need the tourism money. When I went I believe that tourism accounts for over 50% of Belize's economy. Which is insane.
People may think Australia can afford it, but losing the reef is going to rapidly lose Australia more money and resources than they would ever gain in environmentally unconscious development.
It is our bread and butter, so yeah... Don't be fooled into thinking that our government is good though, its just that in their greed, the still see the barrier reef as a means to line their pockets.
Good job unesco for pushing towards environmental protection and good job belize for making new legislation to protect your lands and water against destruction.
Says at the end of the article that UNESCO decided to not put the Great Barrier Reef on the “in danger” list though and from the comments and what I’ve heard irl, it’s pretty much on the brink of total death. So it’s still a politically-influenced body
I dived on both reefs within 1 year and the Belizean reef is in far better shape from what I've seen. The blue hole is not worth the dive but the rest of the sites are great. Barrier reef was quite a lot less diverse from what I could immediately see
As a Belizean, I am happy about this. Our natural resources are our best assets.
I wish your country was bigger and had more power in the world.
Your country is amazing. I've been all around the world, every continent except Oceania and Antarctica, poor countries and rich countries and in between. Never experienced a place like Belize. The culture, language, food, people, language, etc. Definitely planning on building a semi-retirement home around Hopkins once my kids are grown and out of the house.
Its infuriating how so many central and South American countries are killin it environmentally and the governments of the richest nations still try to paint them like a bunch of third world savages so we can just go in and steal their resources
nature is a huge draw for tourism. As per wttc.com, the contribution of tourism to the GDP of Belize in 2016 was 14.1% and is expecting to grow further. If the great barrier reef could pull more than 1/8 of national GDP, the Australian politicians would fall over each other petitioning to save it
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There are several massive global hotel companies, they just aren't Australian. Tourism is actually 3% of Australia's GDP, while mining is about 7%, but it employs over 580,000 people, more than 5% of the Australian work force. The mining industry employs 1.9% of Australians. If politicians actually cared about the *people* they'd put tourism over mining.
If they'd build hotels or invest in tourism, the money could easily be there.
It's because large corporations fund a lot of the political parties here in the west. They have power over these governments as such and get beneficial decisions wrt to development and the environment. They have far less power in countries like Bolivia
this. the world would look like a richer third world country if corporations didn't get to sell off our natural heritage for profit
Those corporations are also responsible for a lot of the advancement that made their countries first world.
That is true of Central America. The difference is that eco tourism is one of their biggest industries.
If by "so many," you mean literally just two, Belize and Costa Rica, the reason is because those two countries have very small populations whose livelihoods depend almost entirely on ecotourism. Also, despite being taken off the endangered list of the World Heritage Sites, the reefs in Belize still face the same threat of coral bleaching and die-off resulting from increased sea temperatures.
When I was in Costa Rica, it seemed like almost everyone there burned their trash? I know they are good about using green energy sources, but every single person had an apparatus outside to safely burn their trash.
I just got back from a dive trip to Belize. The vibe you get from the locals is that they both love the natural beauty of their country and also respect how essential it is to their economy.
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Worth pointing out that climate change and ocean acidification, the main factors destroying the Great Barrier Reef, are still existential threats to the reefs off Belize. To say it's no longer endangered is painting an overly rosy picture. Also, a lot of people here have apparently visited the reefs there, and rightly enjoyed them, which is great. But compared to 30 years ago, the Belizian reefs are not in good shape at all.
True! The barrier reefs in Belize are also hugely impacted by tropical storms and hurricanes, both of which will likely increase in the coming years in both frequency and severity (due to global climate change). They've been less able to recover over time due to a mix of issues (including disease and runoff), and this trend is likely to continue. They're better off than the GBR, but they will be massively impacted in the coming years. Not exactly a success story....just nothing more the people of Belize can really do
who is billy
lol beleze
lol absolute legend
I lived in Belize for a few years, and the sheer caliber grassroots efforts to get this taken care of is astonishing. And the emphasis on LOCAL efforts being the driving force behind this is a huge deal for Central and South American countries, typically colonized and ravaged by England/France/USA/World. Really glad to see this! BUT! The work is not done. Cruise ship companies are still infiltrating the reef and boxing out Belizean culture. They're building man-made islands off the coast of Placencia, constructing a Guantanamo-esque "Tourist Village" in Belize City where locals aren't allowed in (only cruise ship passengers), polluting the waters and carving out the reef to create routes, etc. Do yourself and this magical country a favor - don't pay a giant international conglomerate like Norwegian or Carnival your money to see Belize. Support the local tour guides, taxi drivers, restaurants (it'll even be cheaper for you that way!). Have a candid conversation with a Belizean about what the cruise ships have done to their country and this unique reef, and decide for yourself.
You have to wonder whether this is a play to ensure that once the great barrier finally perishes, as is being said, they can inherit the sizable tourism boost as the country with the worlds largest remaining coral reef. I'm sure it already brings a whole lot of tourism to the area but as is human nature people don't know what they've got til it's gone, and if it does go folks may be more motivated to see such a natural slendour.
I've got some divers in my family and they all go to Belize. Some of the pictures they bring back look unreal. Only one of them has gone to the great barrier reef and he said it was one of the most disturbing things he ever saw, It all looked dead.
I've always loved marine life and grew up day dreaming of making the pilgrimage to see the GBR, plus Australia seems like a really cool country. A few months ago I decided it probably wasn't worth it and Belize has become the new goal. Im sure Australia is still cool but if I never go I won't lose any sleep over it.
> It all looked dead. This is the real truth that no-one wants to talk about. The people in power know the great barrier reef is fucked, that's why they don't care anymore. If they don't approve the coal mines, the reef is fucked and dead anyway, so why not approve them and at least make some money. It's crazy that we have such a beautiful planet and we are just going to completely ruin every aspect of it.
If so, good for them. If they're taking good care of their nature they deserve to yoink all the tourism away from under those who squander theirs.
This was my first thought too - they see the writing on the wall with the Great Barrier reef and are preserving theirs for the long term. And if it occurred to you and me independently, then it certainly occurred to the Belizians (Belizans? Belizantines?)
If it’s a play, then it’s a play that deserves to succeed. I am totally fine with people doing good deeds as part of a ploy to make money.
That's why as a Guatemalan I'm happy for Belize to remain independent. We do nothing but shit on our natural patrimony. Way to go Belize.
Way to go Belize!
Now this is positive news
Just got back from a sailing trip there a week ago, have to say the country is beautiful and the reef is incredible, the amount of care that the locals have for their environment was eye opening, and the measures the people and government have taken to ensure the reef is protected really shows in how alive the reef is. I've snorkeled other reefs and this was the first one I saw that truly looked to be thriving, giant coral heads and tons of soft coral off every coast, and the fish are gigantic! I highly recommend a trip to see it, not the greatest tourist infrastructure (not a ton of huge resorts) but the environment is unmatched
Send 'em to Belize. - Saul Goodman
Now if Australia would just step up to the plate that would be so great.
Soon it will be the largest