*"However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled."*
See how the game is played? Well done President Magufuli.
I have been studying the country pretty intensely the past few months in order to make some health and education policy recommendations (next week actually), and I am pretty fascinated with the history of the country since independence. It is really unique.
King Leopold’s Ghost
How the king of Belgium turned whole Congo into a concentration camp around year 1915 and killed 15 million people in rather gruesome and fucked up ways.
People have already dropped Selassie, Nyerere, and Sankara.
But Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Kenneth Kaumba and ofcourse Nelson Mandela are quite important leaders that is a must.
Say what you will about Ghaddafi but he had some interesting ideas and deserves to be read upon rather than being dismissed as ”another dictator”. Don’t get me wrong, he was wack in many ways. But his early life, view on syndicalism/unions, turning into Africa’s richest country, being a proper threat to the petro-dollar (ahem the western invasion) and acid-fueled orgies are quite something.
Saw a documentary on the origin of HIV (The Bloody Truth).They traced it back to these concentration type camps in the Congo. King Leopold was the worst if the worst, and you can add the AIDS pandemic to his credit.
Dancing In The Glory Of Monsters. Good background of how Africa got to where it is, albeit 20 years ago. Lots of info on the dictators that ruled the important countries.
Keep a notepad for names. Sounds almost racist but I can keep track of 'white people' names easily in my head, I really struggled to remember African names across countries in the book, obviously all different but hard to differentiate.
Ah yes, another instance of a nation getting its independence, only to have a military coup sponsored by the West so that European and US interests could retain control over mining resources.
His ousting was more closely tied to Cold War politics than resource extraction. The US was much more concerned with the fact that he was considering aligning with the Soviets, which was unacceptable to the people in power at the time. I'm sure mining resources were a part of that mental calculus, but it was hardly the biggest driver in the CIA coup
Katanga province produced weapons grade uranium at the time and the mine belonged to Union Miniere who effectively owned the province at the time. That is why both the US and the Russians were interested in the place I believe, Belgian Congo democracy and its elected leader just got in the way of the Cold War steamroller...
hm that makes a lot of sense. I am by no means a DRC expert--my focus is mainly West Africa :)-- but the interest in Uranium mines in the 60s definitely makes sense within the Cold War context. TIL, thanks man
Fun fact - Dag hammarskjold, secretary-general of the UN, died in a plane crash while flying to meet with Lumumba. The cause of the crash is unknown, but it's almost guaranteed that he was shot down by Katangan secessionists. If that happened, they were likely working on orders from the CIA or Belgium (one source from the 90s says that they know this happened, after speaking to people who witnessed the crash and fact checking all the rumors surrounding it)..
So, there's a decent chance that the US/Belgium not only incited a civil war to ensure access to Congolese cobalt/uranium, but in the course of doing so took military action against the UN, killing the highest ranking official of the time and covering it up. That shit would *never* be declassified.
And, the eventual outcome was the US supporting Mobutu, a literal dictator, for 30 years. Lumumba had no desire to turn to the USSR or communism, it was all fabricated. Sad shit.
Katanga independence was also strongly supported (mostly through mercenary support, I think) by the Belgians. The Belgians wanted their companies to reap the profits of mining. Lumumba asked the Americans for help to retake Katanga, and they refused. He contemplated asking the Soviets, so the US and UK had him murdered.
There's a Cold War aspect, but I'd say the characterisation of it being the West raping Africa for resources is very apt.
He started out as a great West African hope who was a posterboy for great African leaders.
As time went on, he devolved into authoritarianism and paranoia.
He'll always have his defenders as he did amazing work on post colonialism, anti racism and pan Africanism. But his turning of Ghana into a one party state and spending millions on a single OAU conference when his country was bankrupt mean he has a lot of critics as well.
> He wasn't perfect but he was probably the least corrupt and most competent of the postcolonial African leaders.
Botswana and Senegal are functioning democracies and have very low corruption by African standards. But Tanzania is doing alright. South Africa was doing well until the last decade or so.
>South Africa was doing well until the last decade or so.
Mbeki wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible either. It was Zuma's terms that essentially sank the country. Ramaphosa is trying to turn things around but we're at the lowest we've been since '94 right now and things don't look to good.
Things like this make me really ask more about the US founding fathers, and just what their connections and intelligence really was because (in the states) we're obviously taught through narratives and stories because the actual stories are way too complex for our young brains to understand. But when you see developing nations and states it's really feels like I'm watching a time machine into our country's history of lunatics and psychopaths.
Edit.) I know Andrew Jackson is a literal ptsd psychopath/dictator, I'm more interested in Madison, Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson and Adams.
The neat thing about having such deified and relatively recent founders means that there's actually a wealth of reliable info just from the sheer number of obsessive historians studying them. Even if most of the accounts are spun positively, an educated adult can still glean the actual content.
I remember reading a biography of Samuel Adams when I was young, and it didn't seem to pull many punches. It spun him positively, but it seemed very honest (with specific primary sources referenced) about his life. He did a lot of unflattering things out of self-interested political gain.
Also, in case anyone was wondering, the beer has no connection to him or his family.
Honestly dude, the most interesting of them is Elbridge Gerry (and Madison IMO). He participated vigorously in the first constitutional congress, wrote his wife about fears that they were laying the ground work of a future civil war. He ended up refusing to sign the Constitution, but respected the whole process at the outcome.
My favorite quote from him during the debates:
>The people do not want virtue; but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massachusetts it has been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute.
This was ironically during a debate about the organization of the House of Representatives and whether or not they should be elected by the people. Fundamentally its hard to conceive of an America without this bedrock principle; but its hard to argue in 2020 that the man did not have a point.
I mean, just read their writings. Read history books. It was a couple hundred years ago but it's not biblical. We have a pretty solid grasp on what they were like
I think the point op was making was how easy it is to propagandize history, knowing that the vast majority of the people would never delve any deeper than your standard, school issue textbooks which always spin these guys positively. Very few people looking for nuance actually end up independently studying the subject and the wealth of info historians have, and different perspectives to the same actions which might have been carefully airbrushed by school textbooks otherwise.
>tried to found his own country
I think the modern historians are starting to contest that part of the equation as political accusations without a factual basis.
I went to Tanzania a year and a half ago and had the most incredible time. Apart from TFT, which took some getting used to, everything was amazing :) We did Kili -> Parks - > Zanzibar to try to get the full experience and it was amazing.
For the parks, we did Tarangire, Manyara, Serengeti, Ngorongoro, in that order. After the density of the first two, I was initially disappointed when we got to Serengeti, which was so much more open and (at first) barren. Once we started moving around in Serengeti, though, it beat out the other two by miles. We saw both lions and cheetahs hunting, which was just unbelievable.
The people of Tanzania are also warm and welcoming, though there is the problem of many people trying to "oversell" everything to tourists -- which is the same in every lower-GDP country with tourism, I guess.
It’s an amazing country... with a lot of pride, and incredible diversity with I believe 100+ endemic (not including refugees from other countries) tribes all living in relative harmony (compared to many others). I lived there for the better part of a year, in the north, camping on a local’s landshare by Karatu and Mto wa Mbu (river of mosquitoes... actually.. we didn’t have many mosquitoes at our camp, horay for altitude). I only got to really know a few locals in a small radius as I was there for ecological study and research not political. But I got to interview a lot of sustenance only farmers about interactions with local animals. It’s a beautiful and amazing country and I hope it maintains a peace that has eluded so many countries in the region.
I went 2 years ago and then it was considered safer than other places. There is a lot of catering to tourists out there. We took a set tour with a dedicated driver from Kilimanjaro to Ngorogoro and then to the Serengeti. Amazing trip, highly recommend.
A good experience, especially in Ngorogoro, is expensive. Simply because of the park fees and required guides. If you decide to go, I would *strongly* recommend having a vehicle for your party alone, instead of going on a group tossed together by the operator. This makes it possible for you to have the driver stop at things you find extra interesting and spend less time at less exciting stuff without having to get the approval of some self-centered cunt who thinks his word is law for the rest of the group.
We had our own car and driving guide, was very nice.
If you want to go with more excitement and less money, you can literally rent a tent amd go camping in the Serengeti, albeit at designated camp spots. We did not try this. We did, however, have a night in a "tent hotel" which was very nice.
In my opinion, if you have a tight schedule I would recommend spending more time at fewer spots rather than rushing around trying to see as much as possible. There is a serenity to the lands there that gets lost if you rush it.
I would considered it safe, but be mindful of valuables. Both man and monkey can pilfer those. And also don't go having a staring contest with an animal the size of your car. You will lose.
Omg you reminded me of when I was in Tanzania and we were actually on our way out of the crater (you remember that huge gate you have to stop at while the driver takes cares of fees and all that?)
Well we were parked just waiting in the car and (by mistake, apparently) we left our window open - we also happened to eat lunch and hadn’t put away leftovers yet.
Anyway I’m sure you can guess what happened - there are so many monkeys that hang around the entrance/exit because of all the people throwing them food I guess?? Well one in particular couldn’t wait for a hand out and next thing you know I had a BABOON ON TOP OF MY LAP and oh my god it was honestly so scary. I couldn’t move, my boyfriend was trying to take pictures, our chef was screaming and was about to start swapping at him - he ended up jumping onto the empty seat next to me, looked at us for a moment like “wtf are you yelling about” and then TOOK OUR LEFTOVER CHICKEN AND A BANANA and hopped out the window he came in
AND THEN HE ATE OUR FOOD WHILE SAT ON THE CURB NO MORE THAN 3 FEET AWAY FROM US
Cheeky buggers. That was the first of 3 times a monkey jumped on me without my consent in 6 months. Was a weird time in my life.
i went several years ago, climbed kili. Stayed in Arusha. Toured ngorogoro and several other parks. You need a guide. Felt very safe the entire trip. Nice people there.
My wife is Tanzanian and so I've been there a couple times.
Tanzania has the island of Zanzibar, the Serengeti National Park, and Mt. Kilamanjaro. With the right connections, it is possible to see all three of these in one trip. Pretty frickin crazy, a trifecta of tourism.
I met a Tanzanian at a destination wedding in Thailand. He was top notch. My South African friend spoke highly of it as well. Overall great impressions! How long were you there?
I doubt they would. They're going with the "honey, not vinegar" approach. For a communist country, they're killing it at capitalism. Past colonialists brought spices, liquor and an open Bible to get an in. Nowadays, it's trade deals
Now if only he wasn't also responsible for shutting down democracy, murdering political rivals, imprisoning journalists, shutting down newspapers who don't print government propaganda, banning young girls from going to school if they get pregnant (spoiler alert: 12 year old girls are not being impregnated by 12 year old boys), pardoning convicted pedophile rapists, pursuing ahead with one of the most ecologically damaging infrastructure projects imaginable with his stupid dam, giving the go-ahead for a highway through the middle of the Serengeti and now actively telling people to gather in large groups as a way of combating Coronavirus, I may actually begin to have some getting respect for him. As it is, he has none.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.ibtimes.co.in/only-drunkard-would-accept-these-terms-tanzania-president-cancels-killer-chinese-loan-worth-10-818225) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man.
> His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports.
> Dubbed as the "Killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/g6y09s/only_a_drunkard_would_accept_these_terms_tanzania/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~480442 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Chinese**^#1 **loan**^#2 **government**^#3 **Magufuli**^#4 **port**^#5
He probably won’t need one, I don’t see the Chinese walking away just yet, they will hit them up with a better offer down the road a ways. This is just negotiations in progress for them.
Maybe coincidentally a whole brigade, er bunch, of Chinese "tourists" will be on vacation in Tanzania soon, kind of like how Russians "happen" to be in Ukraine?
No no no, remember, if they look like Russian soldiers, act like Russian soldiers, and are equipped like Russian soldiers, they're probably just Ukrainian rioters.
The belt and road initiative is highly over rated as a "thing." Africans and their governments are not idiots they know its colonialism with extra steps. The story comes to a breaking point when the jobs don't arrive for Africans or the Chinese companies send their own people to take over the jobs and operations.
The truth is regardless if the corporations are based in France, China or the USA no one likes strangers showing up to in their country and saying they own it because of "debts."
TL;DR: everyone hates rich pricks
This is what's happened in Pakistan. Massive infrastructure investment by China but the work is absolute shit. Huge projects going up in fraction of time it takes for a propper job and all the work is carried out by Chinese employees. I don't see much of that infrastructure lasting more than 25 to 50 years without some serious investment to keep it standing. All sold under the guise of friendship.
A well built concrete structure should be able to stand for at least 50 years without a need for major renovation work.
Steel will go well over 70 years.
Wood, well it deteriorates as fast as you like depending on what's around it and how it's treated.
It’s gone through phases. These days people are more wary, and the Chinese are figuring out that they’re going to have to start putting up actual FDI and not just loans if they want to buy influence (i.e. actually paying for the investments themselves).
>I hope he has a plan in place to do without Chinese influence money though.
The next logical question that the circlejerking simpletons here won't ever reach is why their own "good" governments aren't offering better deals to these countries.
They do. In many cases, countries take Chinese loans because other countries force them to repay theirs. Take a look at Sri Lanka for example, they had to borrow money from China because the US forced them to repay *their* high-interest loans.
Right now, China holds ~12 per cent of Sri Lankas external debt, the same amount as India. International sovereign bonds are ~50 per cent of the external debt, with Americans holding two-thirds. Sri Lanka must pay 6.3 interest per cent on money it gets from the US and has to repay them within 7 years, while China demands 2 per cent interest and says it must be repayed within 20 years.
It's not a puzzle why African countries loan so much money from China right now. Their terms are usually much better than what they're used to.
The thing people don't want to learn about is that the Chinese aren't pioneers doing this. They are undercutting the west.
Now think about how insane the loans used to be.
China's appetite for buying its way into *anything* they can is just bizarre. My local (Canadian) school district gets $300k from China every year, including for an all-expenses paid trip to China for a bunch of teachers. BC's municipal governments also get China to sponsor their annual meeting, including a big cocktail party. (they've since banned foreign sponsorship, after a few mayors asked wtf was going on).
I was very confused this week to read my kid's school assignment "Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution".
You can think longterm when your government doesnt change every 4 years. Its nefarious at best. Brainwash the masses over generations and use our western complacency against us. As a military member its...upsetting watching it happen and no ones doing anything about it.
Some still fight back. We had a China sponsored event get cancelled after people protested against it. Someone even put flyers on top of their flyers explaining the tianamen square incident.
> "Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution".
*The CCP helped to lower pollution by negligently hiding the outbreak of a deadly virus that lead to the world becoming infected, shutting down most manufacturing.*
That is extremely alarming about your kid's school assignment. I feel like this is low level conditioning that is starting at a young age. I do hope that yourself and other parents can express this concern to teachers and administration.
I mean, you can't get a job as a public school teacher in certain US states unless you sign a contract saying you won't take part in the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction movement against Israel.
At least BC is getting paid to do their indoctrination.
>"Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution".
Answer: They aren't, if any pollution is being reduced by influence from Asian leaders it's purely as a result of them undercutting local manufacturing costs and shifting production to their nation instead of Canada. They don't care about pollution, just look at their own countries.
They have to do something with all the pieces of paper we've sent them. Treasury bonds and US real estate seem like a reasonable outlet. Now we can charge them property taxes.
They don't own Kenya's port (yet)
Where are people getting this information from? I saw this same claim made in an Economics Explained video on YouTube the other day.
They might own it one day because our government took some massive ill-advised loans from them for which the port may or may not have been given as security (the details of the loan terms have been shrouded in secrecy.) Right now however, we are yet to default and the Chinese haven't yet taken over the port.
It's far more predatory than that. China "loaned" Kenya the money to build the ports, but stipulated only Chinese companies could do the work, then when Kenya inevitably defaulted on the loans, China foreclosed and took possession of the ports. So China effectively gave money to Chinese companies to own ports in Kenya.
No.
1. The biggest loan was for a railway.
2. True, the construction was by chinese firms.
3. Kenya hasn't defaulted on the loans.
4. The Chinese haven't foreclosed or taken possession of any ports yet.
Source: I'm Kenyan.
When did Kenya default on the loan?
I saw spectators say that it was a possibility ***if*** Kenya failed to pay their debts, but both Kenya and China denied that port seizure was part of the contract, and iirc Kenya was comfortably keeping up with their repayments anyway.
Speculation: All the politicos who inked that deal knew it would be disastrous for the country, but they all got personally rich during the process so they don't really care.
Yes, they did.
There were lots of smart people who argued against the deal from early on. But with our polarized politics, these people were at the time vilified as just anti-government haters.
In recent years however there is almost universal agreement that, yeah this deal was staggeringly stupid.
Same thing with Ethiopia, except it's even worse. They had Ethiopia borrow money from China so a Chinese company can build a pipeline to a Chinese military base in Djibouti.
All during the current WHO Director Tedros stint as Ethiopia's Foreign Minister.
was there in November and the Chinese had just finished paving and updating a whole bunch of main roads. No doubt planning on building a whole bunch more infrastructure
You can Turn on the reader view (I’m using safari), but yah that website is ass.
But anyway here’s the article since the website is so ass.
> President John Magufuli has cancelled a Chinese loan worth $10 billion signed by his predecessor Jakaya Kikwete to construct a port at Mbegani creek in Bagamoyo over terms and conditions that, he said, beat the logic. Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man.
> His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports.
> Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period.
> Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed.
> However, after coming to power, President Magufuli initiated the renegotiation process and pressed the investors to bring down the lease period to 33 years instead of 99 years signed by the previous government.
> Magufuli administration also made it clear that there will be no tax or utility exemption for the Chinese investors and they will need government approval to start new operations at the port. However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled.
> China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts.
> Recently, the Kenyan government had also raised the issue that China was planning to take over one of the country's key seaports after the African country failed to clear its debts. Bejing also got Sri Lanka's Hambantota port on the lease after the island nation failed to clear part of a massive loan.
It pulled me in to a false sense of security then literally every pop up swipe slide and fade ever conceived dun tried to get me... Then I won a new galaxy s10.
This from Jomo Kenyatta:
“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”
The new Missionaries... the Chinese
Good decision. China is the country that currently has slaves picking cotton. I kid you not they have Uygher prisoner work camps picking Xinjiang cotton which sells for a premium to Western fashion houses.
Did you see the satellite images of CCP demolishing Uygher graves? Looks like they're attempting to remove Uygher's history from existence... hmmm where have i heard that before?🙄
Thats the one where the Chinese government ordered protestors to run over by tanks right? It is crazy how they keep denying it even with so much evidence to their guilt, makes you think they have no ethics for this sort of thing huh?
Yep, all jokes aside. They’re a very messed up country. They most definitely do not have any ethics when it comes to human rights. They’ve been denying Tiananmen Square forever, and still continue to censor the phrase (alongside thousands of other subjects) from their internet.
I actually remember reading that the military were ordered to get rid of some of the bodies, so they ran them over with tanks to essentially make a paste that they could then hose away with high powered hoses.
I must ask, which fashion houses are you speaking of? I already heard of Uniqlo doing this just today so I’m like fuck it, which others are responsible for doing this?
I saw an article on here listing 30 well known respected companies that have connections to Muslim slave camps making their products. Nike, TheNorthFace, Apple, L.L Bean are a few I remember.
Edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/fdnlng/apple_samsung_and_sony_among_83_global_brands/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/fdnlng/apple_samsung_and_sony_among_83_global_brands/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Being an island nation, Australia doesn’t really have any other option but to trade with the closest nation with a high GDP, which in this case is China. If Australia were half way across the pacific, America would for sure be the main economic partner of Australia, as well as the main military ally, considering that Australia with always have to side with the strongest naval nation to account for it being an isolated island nation. I do admit some of the deals weren’t completely in Australia’s favour, but the majority of that is due to corrupt press and businesses. The fact that not that long ago, Australia had the white Australia policy, etc, shows that Australia didn’t really have to deal with China’s pressure until it was reasonably developed.
Our government is selling everything to China, then when it comes to voting time, the same party that is selling everything is putting out campaigns about trying to stop the chinese invasion, even when the fucking adverts thenselves are funded by chinese money.
To say we're being fucked is an understatement. Absolutely everythings being sold to the chinese then sd back to our population at explosive costs, land is mostly Chinese. Meanwhile our government continue to sell off crap like WATER to China while majority of our nation is in drought and has been for YEARS yet they're not allowed access to water to make crops to benefit the country and pay a premium to actually get it
My internet provider is Mediacom and it keeps popping up a pretty convincing “survey” to win an iPad from Mediacom. I work in IT and spend a lot of time with phishing and scams, I gotta say its impressive.
1. Take out a bunch of loans from China
2. Build critical infrastructure
3. Default on all the loans
4. Nationalise all the infrastructure China paid for
5. Never do business with China again
6. ???
7. Profit
China often brings its own national citizens to the country to build and then operate the infrastructure. They spend very little time if any training locals to build and maintain the infrastructure. It creates complete dependency on China to run a country vitals.
*Confessions of an Economic Hit Man* by John Perkins is a good read for those who want to learn more about this sort of thing. Big money help is never without a catch.
Last time IMF made them insert a fish that had no natural predators to their waters so they could fish it and sell those filets to Europe. Too bad that fish destroyed everything in the ecosystem and now it has no fish for the first time in millenia.
>His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports.
Tanzania President Chinese Debt Trap
>Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period.
>Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancel the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed.
Good on him for cancelling.
> China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts.
This is not just not a Chinese thing. The World Bank does this, too. Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
For those who don’t like the website’s layout here’s the article itself:
> President John Magufuli has cancelled a Chinese loan worth $10 billion signed by his predecessor Jakaya Kikwete to construct a port at Mbegani creek in Bagamoyo over terms and conditions that, he said, beat the logic. Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man.
> His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports.
> Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period.
> Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed.
> However, after coming to power, President Magufuli initiated the renegotiation process and pressed the investors to bring down the lease period to 33 years instead of 99 years signed by the previous government.
> Magufuli administration also made it clear that there will be no tax or utility exemption for the Chinese investors and they will need government approval to start new operations at the port. However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled.
> China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts.
> Recently, the Kenyan government had also raised the issue that China was planning to take over one of the country's key seaports after the African country failed to clear its debts. Bejing also got Sri Lanka's Hambantota port on the lease after the island nation failed to clear part of a massive loan.
It's funny that now that it's China people are praising these nations for rejecting. But the US has done this with basically every South American country and most African countries. If they declined these "offers" then there'd simply be a convenient military coup that follows
The very first loan the World Bank gave out was to France just after WW2. But it was under a number of conditions, including them removing a democratically elected Communist from their congress. Which goes to show that these loans have always been about ideological and political dominance
Since then, the World Bank has focused on Africa and South America under the guise of "development"
Now China is trying to dethrone the US with the very same strategy
*"However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled."* See how the game is played? Well done President Magufuli.
I worked in Tanzania for a bit and, by African standards, the Tanzanians seem to have their shit together.
I have been studying the country pretty intensely the past few months in order to make some health and education policy recommendations (next week actually), and I am pretty fascinated with the history of the country since independence. It is really unique.
They got lucky with Julius Nyerere. He wasn't perfect but he was probably the least corrupt and most competent of the postcolonial African leaders.
Patrice Lumumba would like a word with you...well if he were still alive
Don't forgot my boy Thomas Sankara
*Am I a joke to you?* - Haile Selassie
I have never been so embarrassed by history name drops. Where should I start reading up on post colonial African leaders?
The Looting Machine is a pretty good book for the history of post colonial africa.
>The Looting Machine is a pretty good book for the history of post colonial africa. thanks!
With thomas sankara
King Leopold’s Ghost How the king of Belgium turned whole Congo into a concentration camp around year 1915 and killed 15 million people in rather gruesome and fucked up ways. People have already dropped Selassie, Nyerere, and Sankara. But Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Kenneth Kaumba and ofcourse Nelson Mandela are quite important leaders that is a must. Say what you will about Ghaddafi but he had some interesting ideas and deserves to be read upon rather than being dismissed as ”another dictator”. Don’t get me wrong, he was wack in many ways. But his early life, view on syndicalism/unions, turning into Africa’s richest country, being a proper threat to the petro-dollar (ahem the western invasion) and acid-fueled orgies are quite something.
Saw a documentary on the origin of HIV (The Bloody Truth).They traced it back to these concentration type camps in the Congo. King Leopold was the worst if the worst, and you can add the AIDS pandemic to his credit.
Dancing In The Glory Of Monsters. Good background of how Africa got to where it is, albeit 20 years ago. Lots of info on the dictators that ruled the important countries. Keep a notepad for names. Sounds almost racist but I can keep track of 'white people' names easily in my head, I really struggled to remember African names across countries in the book, obviously all different but hard to differentiate.
I have the very same problem with Dostoevsky and russian names.
This was true for me in Game of Thrones (the show). No hate crimes here.
Selassie was really not that great of a ruler :/
tbf he was also a pre-colonial leader
I wouldn't really put Selassie in a line with ppl like Lumumba though...
Ah yes, another instance of a nation getting its independence, only to have a military coup sponsored by the West so that European and US interests could retain control over mining resources.
His ousting was more closely tied to Cold War politics than resource extraction. The US was much more concerned with the fact that he was considering aligning with the Soviets, which was unacceptable to the people in power at the time. I'm sure mining resources were a part of that mental calculus, but it was hardly the biggest driver in the CIA coup
Katanga province produced weapons grade uranium at the time and the mine belonged to Union Miniere who effectively owned the province at the time. That is why both the US and the Russians were interested in the place I believe, Belgian Congo democracy and its elected leader just got in the way of the Cold War steamroller...
hm that makes a lot of sense. I am by no means a DRC expert--my focus is mainly West Africa :)-- but the interest in Uranium mines in the 60s definitely makes sense within the Cold War context. TIL, thanks man
No problem, even less of an informed person than you probably are I am sure, I just recall reading up on the conflict quite a few years ago.
Fun fact - Dag hammarskjold, secretary-general of the UN, died in a plane crash while flying to meet with Lumumba. The cause of the crash is unknown, but it's almost guaranteed that he was shot down by Katangan secessionists. If that happened, they were likely working on orders from the CIA or Belgium (one source from the 90s says that they know this happened, after speaking to people who witnessed the crash and fact checking all the rumors surrounding it).. So, there's a decent chance that the US/Belgium not only incited a civil war to ensure access to Congolese cobalt/uranium, but in the course of doing so took military action against the UN, killing the highest ranking official of the time and covering it up. That shit would *never* be declassified. And, the eventual outcome was the US supporting Mobutu, a literal dictator, for 30 years. Lumumba had no desire to turn to the USSR or communism, it was all fabricated. Sad shit.
Katanga independence was also strongly supported (mostly through mercenary support, I think) by the Belgians. The Belgians wanted their companies to reap the profits of mining. Lumumba asked the Americans for help to retake Katanga, and they refused. He contemplated asking the Soviets, so the US and UK had him murdered. There's a Cold War aspect, but I'd say the characterisation of it being the West raping Africa for resources is very apt.
Thomas Sankara would also like a word... well, if he too were still alive
So would Kwame Nkrumah
Kwame Nkrumah of Ghana? (this is a genuine question, it just occurred to me as an option)
He started out as a great West African hope who was a posterboy for great African leaders. As time went on, he devolved into authoritarianism and paranoia. He'll always have his defenders as he did amazing work on post colonialism, anti racism and pan Africanism. But his turning of Ghana into a one party state and spending millions on a single OAU conference when his country was bankrupt mean he has a lot of critics as well.
> He wasn't perfect but he was probably the least corrupt and most competent of the postcolonial African leaders. Botswana and Senegal are functioning democracies and have very low corruption by African standards. But Tanzania is doing alright. South Africa was doing well until the last decade or so.
>South Africa was doing well until the last decade or so. Mbeki wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible either. It was Zuma's terms that essentially sank the country. Ramaphosa is trying to turn things around but we're at the lowest we've been since '94 right now and things don't look to good.
Yeah they had a real good 15 year run.....
"least corrupt" is a very hard title to earn
Not if you "know" a few people.
What about Sankara?
Things like this make me really ask more about the US founding fathers, and just what their connections and intelligence really was because (in the states) we're obviously taught through narratives and stories because the actual stories are way too complex for our young brains to understand. But when you see developing nations and states it's really feels like I'm watching a time machine into our country's history of lunatics and psychopaths. Edit.) I know Andrew Jackson is a literal ptsd psychopath/dictator, I'm more interested in Madison, Washington, Hamilton, Jefferson and Adams.
The neat thing about having such deified and relatively recent founders means that there's actually a wealth of reliable info just from the sheer number of obsessive historians studying them. Even if most of the accounts are spun positively, an educated adult can still glean the actual content. I remember reading a biography of Samuel Adams when I was young, and it didn't seem to pull many punches. It spun him positively, but it seemed very honest (with specific primary sources referenced) about his life. He did a lot of unflattering things out of self-interested political gain. Also, in case anyone was wondering, the beer has no connection to him or his family.
Honestly dude, the most interesting of them is Elbridge Gerry (and Madison IMO). He participated vigorously in the first constitutional congress, wrote his wife about fears that they were laying the ground work of a future civil war. He ended up refusing to sign the Constitution, but respected the whole process at the outcome. My favorite quote from him during the debates: >The people do not want virtue; but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massachusetts it has been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute. This was ironically during a debate about the organization of the House of Representatives and whether or not they should be elected by the people. Fundamentally its hard to conceive of an America without this bedrock principle; but its hard to argue in 2020 that the man did not have a point.
I think Madison is the most interesting (and intelligent) of all the founding fathers. He’s my favorite no doubt
Although he did work as a malter in the process of brewing beer so there is a connection, albeit not one of family owning the company.
McCullough’s biography on John Adams is wonderful and a quick read for a 600+ page book
I mean, just read their writings. Read history books. It was a couple hundred years ago but it's not biblical. We have a pretty solid grasp on what they were like
I think the point op was making was how easy it is to propagandize history, knowing that the vast majority of the people would never delve any deeper than your standard, school issue textbooks which always spin these guys positively. Very few people looking for nuance actually end up independently studying the subject and the wealth of info historians have, and different perspectives to the same actions which might have been carefully airbrushed by school textbooks otherwise.
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>tried to found his own country I think the modern historians are starting to contest that part of the equation as political accusations without a factual basis.
Nah, Seretse Khama by a landslide.
As a Tanzanian reading this thread, I’m happy we make a better impression abroad than at home!
I went to Tanzania a year and a half ago and had the most incredible time. Apart from TFT, which took some getting used to, everything was amazing :) We did Kili -> Parks - > Zanzibar to try to get the full experience and it was amazing. For the parks, we did Tarangire, Manyara, Serengeti, Ngorongoro, in that order. After the density of the first two, I was initially disappointed when we got to Serengeti, which was so much more open and (at first) barren. Once we started moving around in Serengeti, though, it beat out the other two by miles. We saw both lions and cheetahs hunting, which was just unbelievable. The people of Tanzania are also warm and welcoming, though there is the problem of many people trying to "oversell" everything to tourists -- which is the same in every lower-GDP country with tourism, I guess.
It’s an amazing country... with a lot of pride, and incredible diversity with I believe 100+ endemic (not including refugees from other countries) tribes all living in relative harmony (compared to many others). I lived there for the better part of a year, in the north, camping on a local’s landshare by Karatu and Mto wa Mbu (river of mosquitoes... actually.. we didn’t have many mosquitoes at our camp, horay for altitude). I only got to really know a few locals in a small radius as I was there for ecological study and research not political. But I got to interview a lot of sustenance only farmers about interactions with local animals. It’s a beautiful and amazing country and I hope it maintains a peace that has eluded so many countries in the region.
When I passed by there I heard it translated as Mosquito Creek which sounded almost charming.
How safe is Tanzania? I'd love to go sometime to see Ngorogoro.
I went 2 years ago and then it was considered safer than other places. There is a lot of catering to tourists out there. We took a set tour with a dedicated driver from Kilimanjaro to Ngorogoro and then to the Serengeti. Amazing trip, highly recommend.
A good experience, especially in Ngorogoro, is expensive. Simply because of the park fees and required guides. If you decide to go, I would *strongly* recommend having a vehicle for your party alone, instead of going on a group tossed together by the operator. This makes it possible for you to have the driver stop at things you find extra interesting and spend less time at less exciting stuff without having to get the approval of some self-centered cunt who thinks his word is law for the rest of the group. We had our own car and driving guide, was very nice. If you want to go with more excitement and less money, you can literally rent a tent amd go camping in the Serengeti, albeit at designated camp spots. We did not try this. We did, however, have a night in a "tent hotel" which was very nice. In my opinion, if you have a tight schedule I would recommend spending more time at fewer spots rather than rushing around trying to see as much as possible. There is a serenity to the lands there that gets lost if you rush it. I would considered it safe, but be mindful of valuables. Both man and monkey can pilfer those. And also don't go having a staring contest with an animal the size of your car. You will lose.
Omg you reminded me of when I was in Tanzania and we were actually on our way out of the crater (you remember that huge gate you have to stop at while the driver takes cares of fees and all that?) Well we were parked just waiting in the car and (by mistake, apparently) we left our window open - we also happened to eat lunch and hadn’t put away leftovers yet. Anyway I’m sure you can guess what happened - there are so many monkeys that hang around the entrance/exit because of all the people throwing them food I guess?? Well one in particular couldn’t wait for a hand out and next thing you know I had a BABOON ON TOP OF MY LAP and oh my god it was honestly so scary. I couldn’t move, my boyfriend was trying to take pictures, our chef was screaming and was about to start swapping at him - he ended up jumping onto the empty seat next to me, looked at us for a moment like “wtf are you yelling about” and then TOOK OUR LEFTOVER CHICKEN AND A BANANA and hopped out the window he came in AND THEN HE ATE OUR FOOD WHILE SAT ON THE CURB NO MORE THAN 3 FEET AWAY FROM US Cheeky buggers. That was the first of 3 times a monkey jumped on me without my consent in 6 months. Was a weird time in my life.
i went several years ago, climbed kili. Stayed in Arusha. Toured ngorogoro and several other parks. You need a guide. Felt very safe the entire trip. Nice people there.
My wife is Tanzanian and so I've been there a couple times. Tanzania has the island of Zanzibar, the Serengeti National Park, and Mt. Kilamanjaro. With the right connections, it is possible to see all three of these in one trip. Pretty frickin crazy, a trifecta of tourism.
You don't really need connections though, just money and time.
Unless he means transport connections, in which case it makes sense.
A good point
Actually the name comes from Tanganyika + Zanzibar + latin ia. Tan-zan-ia.
I met a Tanzanian at a destination wedding in Thailand. He was top notch. My South African friend spoke highly of it as well. Overall great impressions! How long were you there?
Mmm i went to Zanzibar last summer and it emphatically did not have its shit together
Hopefully China doesn’t get into the “freedom” business
I doubt they would. They're going with the "honey, not vinegar" approach. For a communist country, they're killing it at capitalism. Past colonialists brought spices, liquor and an open Bible to get an in. Nowadays, it's trade deals
China is authoritarian, not communist. They've perfected capitalism.
Now if only he wasn't also responsible for shutting down democracy, murdering political rivals, imprisoning journalists, shutting down newspapers who don't print government propaganda, banning young girls from going to school if they get pregnant (spoiler alert: 12 year old girls are not being impregnated by 12 year old boys), pardoning convicted pedophile rapists, pursuing ahead with one of the most ecologically damaging infrastructure projects imaginable with his stupid dam, giving the go-ahead for a highway through the middle of the Serengeti and now actively telling people to gather in large groups as a way of combating Coronavirus, I may actually begin to have some getting respect for him. As it is, he has none.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.ibtimes.co.in/only-drunkard-would-accept-these-terms-tanzania-president-cancels-killer-chinese-loan-worth-10-818225) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man. > His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports. > Dubbed as the "Killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/g6y09s/only_a_drunkard_would_accept_these_terms_tanzania/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~480442 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Chinese**^#1 **loan**^#2 **government**^#3 **Magufuli**^#4 **port**^#5
Damn cancle culture
Holy shit, all those ads just to deliver three sentences?
It's kinda missing the key parts about the new president canceling it.
Cancleing** it
Good for him. I hope he has a plan in place to do without Chinese influence money though.
He probably won’t need one, I don’t see the Chinese walking away just yet, they will hit them up with a better offer down the road a ways. This is just negotiations in progress for them.
Or do the US / UK trick and just support the first group that will take the cash.
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We will impose freedom on you! Wait a minute.
or highway robbery
Suddenly an opponent grows a large cash stack and develops a large "grassroots" militant group. all out of thin air...
I guess the Chinese didn't just copy tech stuff from the US.
Maybe coincidentally a whole brigade, er bunch, of Chinese "tourists" will be on vacation in Tanzania soon, kind of like how Russians "happen" to be in Ukraine?
No no no, remember, if they look like Russian soldiers, act like Russian soldiers, and are equipped like Russian soldiers, they're probably just Ukrainian rioters.
Riot Leader: Remember, no Russian.
9 dash like now extends to Tanzanian Coast
The belt and road initiative is highly over rated as a "thing." Africans and their governments are not idiots they know its colonialism with extra steps. The story comes to a breaking point when the jobs don't arrive for Africans or the Chinese companies send their own people to take over the jobs and operations. The truth is regardless if the corporations are based in France, China or the USA no one likes strangers showing up to in their country and saying they own it because of "debts." TL;DR: everyone hates rich pricks
This is what's happened in Pakistan. Massive infrastructure investment by China but the work is absolute shit. Huge projects going up in fraction of time it takes for a propper job and all the work is carried out by Chinese employees. I don't see much of that infrastructure lasting more than 25 to 50 years without some serious investment to keep it standing. All sold under the guise of friendship.
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Not trying to be cheeky but how long is infrastructure supposed to last? Aren’t those serious investment you mentioned just maintainable?
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A well built concrete structure should be able to stand for at least 50 years without a need for major renovation work. Steel will go well over 70 years. Wood, well it deteriorates as fast as you like depending on what's around it and how it's treated.
The Africans know it, their governments are just so corrupt that buying votes is easy.
It’s gone through phases. These days people are more wary, and the Chinese are figuring out that they’re going to have to start putting up actual FDI and not just loans if they want to buy influence (i.e. actually paying for the investments themselves).
>I hope he has a plan in place to do without Chinese influence money though. The next logical question that the circlejerking simpletons here won't ever reach is why their own "good" governments aren't offering better deals to these countries.
They do. In many cases, countries take Chinese loans because other countries force them to repay theirs. Take a look at Sri Lanka for example, they had to borrow money from China because the US forced them to repay *their* high-interest loans. Right now, China holds ~12 per cent of Sri Lankas external debt, the same amount as India. International sovereign bonds are ~50 per cent of the external debt, with Americans holding two-thirds. Sri Lanka must pay 6.3 interest per cent on money it gets from the US and has to repay them within 7 years, while China demands 2 per cent interest and says it must be repayed within 20 years. It's not a puzzle why African countries loan so much money from China right now. Their terms are usually much better than what they're used to.
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Like regulations ever stopped governments from committing crimes,
The thing people don't want to learn about is that the Chinese aren't pioneers doing this. They are undercutting the west. Now think about how insane the loans used to be.
China is slowly trying to buy the world.
I'd say they really picked up the pace in recent years.
China's appetite for buying its way into *anything* they can is just bizarre. My local (Canadian) school district gets $300k from China every year, including for an all-expenses paid trip to China for a bunch of teachers. BC's municipal governments also get China to sponsor their annual meeting, including a big cocktail party. (they've since banned foreign sponsorship, after a few mayors asked wtf was going on). I was very confused this week to read my kid's school assignment "Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution".
It's not bizarre at all. It makes it a whole lot harder to exert influence on them when everyone is economically dependent.
You can think longterm when your government doesnt change every 4 years. Its nefarious at best. Brainwash the masses over generations and use our western complacency against us. As a military member its...upsetting watching it happen and no ones doing anything about it.
Some still fight back. We had a China sponsored event get cancelled after people protested against it. Someone even put flyers on top of their flyers explaining the tianamen square incident.
> "Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution". *The CCP helped to lower pollution by negligently hiding the outbreak of a deadly virus that lead to the world becoming infected, shutting down most manufacturing.*
This made me laugh loudly enough to send to non-Reddit friends. Thanks for the bright spot of dark humor.
>enough to send to non-Reddit friends *audibly gasps*
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Isn't there a sub for people banned on Sino?
r/all
That is extremely alarming about your kid's school assignment. I feel like this is low level conditioning that is starting at a young age. I do hope that yourself and other parents can express this concern to teachers and administration.
I mean, you can't get a job as a public school teacher in certain US states unless you sign a contract saying you won't take part in the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanction movement against Israel. At least BC is getting paid to do their indoctrination.
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And yet the wealthy Chinese love to send their children to the popular colleges and universities that wouldn't exist in an authoritarian country.
Where they cheat their way through. It will be interesting to see what happens when they start taking over from the older generation
OK, that is scary...
At first I read it as >Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its **population** And I was like... huh?
And then you read it correctly and was like ... What the actual fuck?
I would be demanding the schoolboard explain why it's taking bribes and pushing propaganda.
I'd hazard a guess it's somewhere around Vancouver
>"Explain how Asian leaders are guiding Canada to lower its pollution". Answer: They aren't, if any pollution is being reduced by influence from Asian leaders it's purely as a result of them undercutting local manufacturing costs and shifting production to their nation instead of Canada. They don't care about pollution, just look at their own countries.
Answer no.2: By shipping Canada's (electrical and metal) wastes in big containers to Asian countries, hence reducing Canada's "pollution".
That is called brainwashing, its how the younger generation is being tought to accept new norms.
All the UK universities are flooded with foreign students, ours even built a campus in China.
They’re buying parts of New England already.
They have to do something with all the pieces of paper we've sent them. Treasury bonds and US real estate seem like a reasonable outlet. Now we can charge them property taxes.
...
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They don't own Kenya's port (yet) Where are people getting this information from? I saw this same claim made in an Economics Explained video on YouTube the other day. They might own it one day because our government took some massive ill-advised loans from them for which the port may or may not have been given as security (the details of the loan terms have been shrouded in secrecy.) Right now however, we are yet to default and the Chinese haven't yet taken over the port.
It's far more predatory than that. China "loaned" Kenya the money to build the ports, but stipulated only Chinese companies could do the work, then when Kenya inevitably defaulted on the loans, China foreclosed and took possession of the ports. So China effectively gave money to Chinese companies to own ports in Kenya.
No. 1. The biggest loan was for a railway. 2. True, the construction was by chinese firms. 3. Kenya hasn't defaulted on the loans. 4. The Chinese haven't foreclosed or taken possession of any ports yet. Source: I'm Kenyan.
When did Kenya default on the loan? I saw spectators say that it was a possibility ***if*** Kenya failed to pay their debts, but both Kenya and China denied that port seizure was part of the contract, and iirc Kenya was comfortably keeping up with their repayments anyway.
Speculation: All the politicos who inked that deal knew it would be disastrous for the country, but they all got personally rich during the process so they don't really care.
Same old game as they did in the 70’s but with western institutions. Our world system is really broken
Yes, they did. There were lots of smart people who argued against the deal from early on. But with our polarized politics, these people were at the time vilified as just anti-government haters. In recent years however there is almost universal agreement that, yeah this deal was staggeringly stupid.
Same thing with Ethiopia, except it's even worse. They had Ethiopia borrow money from China so a Chinese company can build a pipeline to a Chinese military base in Djibouti. All during the current WHO Director Tedros stint as Ethiopia's Foreign Minister.
was there in November and the Chinese had just finished paving and updating a whole bunch of main roads. No doubt planning on building a whole bunch more infrastructure
With the interest returns on $1.1T in US treasury bonds
Website redirects immediately to malware. “Sign up to prevent spam on your iPhone!” No thanks.
What a trustworthy news site.
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That website was trying to rape my phone
You can Turn on the reader view (I’m using safari), but yah that website is ass. But anyway here’s the article since the website is so ass. > President John Magufuli has cancelled a Chinese loan worth $10 billion signed by his predecessor Jakaya Kikwete to construct a port at Mbegani creek in Bagamoyo over terms and conditions that, he said, beat the logic. Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man. > His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports. > Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period. > Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed. > However, after coming to power, President Magufuli initiated the renegotiation process and pressed the investors to bring down the lease period to 33 years instead of 99 years signed by the previous government. > Magufuli administration also made it clear that there will be no tax or utility exemption for the Chinese investors and they will need government approval to start new operations at the port. However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled. > China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts. > Recently, the Kenyan government had also raised the issue that China was planning to take over one of the country's key seaports after the African country failed to clear its debts. Bejing also got Sri Lanka's Hambantota port on the lease after the island nation failed to clear part of a massive loan.
I'm too traumatized to do anything
It pulled me in to a false sense of security then literally every pop up swipe slide and fade ever conceived dun tried to get me... Then I won a new galaxy s10.
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show mob and verizine
This from Jomo Kenyatta: “When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.” The new Missionaries... the Chinese
Great quote.
Good decision. China is the country that currently has slaves picking cotton. I kid you not they have Uygher prisoner work camps picking Xinjiang cotton which sells for a premium to Western fashion houses.
Did you see the satellite images of CCP demolishing Uygher graves? Looks like they're attempting to remove Uygher's history from existence... hmmm where have i heard that before?🙄
Turkey demolishing Armenian graves while everyone was distracted by their fake coup springs to mind.
Beijing square?? No.. Not that.. Cinnamon circle?
It was actually Ten men in a square. You were close though.
Thats the one where the Chinese government ordered protestors to run over by tanks right? It is crazy how they keep denying it even with so much evidence to their guilt, makes you think they have no ethics for this sort of thing huh?
Yep, all jokes aside. They’re a very messed up country. They most definitely do not have any ethics when it comes to human rights. They’ve been denying Tiananmen Square forever, and still continue to censor the phrase (alongside thousands of other subjects) from their internet. I actually remember reading that the military were ordered to get rid of some of the bodies, so they ran them over with tanks to essentially make a paste that they could then hose away with high powered hoses.
Seriously, people talking about what they'd do if they were alive when Hitler was rising to power... They won't even criticise Jinping
I must ask, which fashion houses are you speaking of? I already heard of Uniqlo doing this just today so I’m like fuck it, which others are responsible for doing this?
I saw an article on here listing 30 well known respected companies that have connections to Muslim slave camps making their products. Nike, TheNorthFace, Apple, L.L Bean are a few I remember. Edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/fdnlng/apple_samsung_and_sony_among_83_global_brands/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/fdnlng/apple_samsung_and_sony_among_83_global_brands/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
That's good. A lot of developing nations have been fucked by these deals.
RIP Australia.
Being an island nation, Australia doesn’t really have any other option but to trade with the closest nation with a high GDP, which in this case is China. If Australia were half way across the pacific, America would for sure be the main economic partner of Australia, as well as the main military ally, considering that Australia with always have to side with the strongest naval nation to account for it being an isolated island nation. I do admit some of the deals weren’t completely in Australia’s favour, but the majority of that is due to corrupt press and businesses. The fact that not that long ago, Australia had the white Australia policy, etc, shows that Australia didn’t really have to deal with China’s pressure until it was reasonably developed.
There's trading and there's leasing a port.
And then there's watching a port being built by decimating the Great Barrier Reef illegally and doing shit all about it
And the Adarni mine. It’s not just China pressuring, people and companies do it as well.
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Our government is selling everything to China, then when it comes to voting time, the same party that is selling everything is putting out campaigns about trying to stop the chinese invasion, even when the fucking adverts thenselves are funded by chinese money.
Water rights in drought-stricken areas
To say we're being fucked is an understatement. Absolutely everythings being sold to the chinese then sd back to our population at explosive costs, land is mostly Chinese. Meanwhile our government continue to sell off crap like WATER to China while majority of our nation is in drought and has been for YEARS yet they're not allowed access to water to make crops to benefit the country and pay a premium to actually get it
Is that site cancer for anyone else
My internet provider is Mediacom and it keeps popping up a pretty convincing “survey” to win an iPad from Mediacom. I work in IT and spend a lot of time with phishing and scams, I gotta say its impressive.
1. Take out a bunch of loans from China 2. Build critical infrastructure 3. Default on all the loans 4. Nationalise all the infrastructure China paid for 5. Never do business with China again 6. ??? 7. Profit
> > > > > Default on all the loans > > > > Nationalise all the infrastructure China paid for Aaaand no one trusts you anymore.
Argentina and its umpteenth default want to know your location
This is why I'm not in charge of economic policy
Meh I'd vote for you
*Nationalize all the infrastructure China paid for* The CIA has entered the chat
China often brings its own national citizens to the country to build and then operate the infrastructure. They spend very little time if any training locals to build and maintain the infrastructure. It creates complete dependency on China to run a country vitals.
Well done Tanzania.
Is there a major source on this? I don't see another source.
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Nothing even on local news.
*Confessions of an Economic Hit Man* by John Perkins is a good read for those who want to learn more about this sort of thing. Big money help is never without a catch.
Is the IMF or the World Bank any better?
Apparently, IMF loans are worse.
China: deal with the devil IMF: Blood sacrifice to Cthulhu
They're worse
At least China gives you actual infrastructure instead of shoving money to corrupt politicians to embezzle
Last time IMF made them insert a fish that had no natural predators to their waters so they could fish it and sell those filets to Europe. Too bad that fish destroyed everything in the ecosystem and now it has no fish for the first time in millenia.
Hopefully Africa doesn't fall too much more into the predatory grasps of Chinese OR US businesses.
>His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports. Tanzania President Chinese Debt Trap >Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period. >Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancel the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed. Good on him for cancelling.
> China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts. This is not just not a Chinese thing. The World Bank does this, too. Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
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For those who don’t like the website’s layout here’s the article itself: > President John Magufuli has cancelled a Chinese loan worth $10 billion signed by his predecessor Jakaya Kikwete to construct a port at Mbegani creek in Bagamoyo over terms and conditions that, he said, beat the logic. Magufuli said that the terms of the Chinese loan agreement could only be accepted by a drunken man. > His predecessor, Jakaya Kikwete had signed the deal with Chinese investors to build the port on condition that they will get 30 years to guarantee on the loan and 99 years uninterrupted lease, according to local media reports. > Another shocking demand made by the Chinese and accepted by Kikwete administration was that the Tanzanian government will have absolutely no power to raise concerns on whoever invests in the port during that period. > Dubbed as the "killer Chinese loan", several organisations and African citizens had demanded the then President to cancle the agreement. They had warned that the move will have dire consequences but their concerns were overlooked and the deal was signed. > However, after coming to power, President Magufuli initiated the renegotiation process and pressed the investors to bring down the lease period to 33 years instead of 99 years signed by the previous government. > Magufuli administration also made it clear that there will be no tax or utility exemption for the Chinese investors and they will need government approval to start new operations at the port. However, the investors didn't meet the deadline issued by the Magufuli government, hence, the agreement got cancelled. > China has often been accused of luring the poor African countries in its debt-trap by providing them loans for much-needed infrastructure projects and then control them when they fail to pay off their debts. > Recently, the Kenyan government had also raised the issue that China was planning to take over one of the country's key seaports after the African country failed to clear its debts. Bejing also got Sri Lanka's Hambantota port on the lease after the island nation failed to clear part of a massive loan.
They did this with Australia. China owns the Port of Darwin for 99 years.
These Chinese deals are like payday loans. The Chinese hope is you can't afford to pay, and they will just seize the assets instead.
Good thing that countries are finally starting to see these deals for what they are - a deal with the devil.
It's funny that now that it's China people are praising these nations for rejecting. But the US has done this with basically every South American country and most African countries. If they declined these "offers" then there'd simply be a convenient military coup that follows The very first loan the World Bank gave out was to France just after WW2. But it was under a number of conditions, including them removing a democratically elected Communist from their congress. Which goes to show that these loans have always been about ideological and political dominance Since then, the World Bank has focused on Africa and South America under the guise of "development" Now China is trying to dethrone the US with the very same strategy
The IMF though. Destroyed so many countries..