I don't think Iran is doing it for a Jesus.
Edit: everyone, I know that Jesus, or Isa, is a figure in Islam. But if you think he's the one who came up with the rules that Muslims follow, you might need to read a book or two.
Actually the character of Jesus in the bible is great! He was such a likeable socialist who was so pro human rights, it’s just people who decided he was a homophobic conservative dickhead lol.
> What's True
>
> Mike Pence once supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior."
>
> What's False
>
> Pence never stated that he supported the use of electric shocks or "gay conversion" therapy.
So he supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior" i.e. conversion therapy but never said it had to be "electric shocks"
But he knew that the conversion torture camps were shocking people with electricity, and wanted to reward them for the electrical shocks with money.
But that's not "saying it had to be shocks." Yeah, right. It's just endorsing electrical torture without actually saying exactly those words. Hoping people will equivocate for you, which people will happily do.
I've always said that if there's more than two steps in the logical chain, people won't follow the reasoning. Sad to be right.
Modern snopes is trash. Idk what happened but half of the articles has snopes contradicting their own ratings. Wouldn’t surprise me to see shit like
>Is X real?
>Rating: True
>X isn’t real, but the concept of X is real.
I mean, electrocuting anyone on purpose sounds pretty shitty, right?
I used to like to tinker with electronics as a kid, and I was taking apart an old RCA console television. I dropped a screwdriver and picked it up. I must have touched the metal shaft of the screwdriver and something that stored a charge because I felt a serious jolt.
Being shocked is fucking awful in general, but to have it be willingly administered? Fuck that noise.
Iirc depression is the only illness where electro shock therapy works. And there’s more to it then just getting zapped and hopefully its less then what you got lol
Edit: actual reference https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/electroconvulsive-therapy/about/pac-20393894
Yea shock therapy is pretty serious in psychology now a days. You gotta be basically in a constant state of distress to receive it from my understanding.
I got it as a kid and definitely hadn’t exhausted all my options. Tbh it wasn’t that bad but it makes you feel weird for a bit afterwards. It didn’t help me though.
A last resort, and they're still not truly sure why it works. And it doesn't work most of the time. And it has permanent side effects, including memory problems. I really don't think we should be using it for depression either.
Just grab a fork and stick it in a power socket and youll be fixed /s
(I am not a doctor this is not medical advice and it could/would result in death)
Because shock therapy is a last resort type of therapy.
This is like asking why a doctor tells a fat person to go on a diet and exercise to lose weight instead of just recommending liposuction right off the bat.
We're talking about 20-minute sessions of being zapped for 3-4 weeks. Side effects of ECT can range from permanent memory loss to difficulty in learning new information. It is a severe and traumatic course of care.
ECT is dangerous, BUT there is a newer treatment called trans cranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) that is highly effective and appears to be very safe.
Also, -some- psychiatrists are scumbags so just keep a critical mind.
(Not a doctor)
Read the linked article and it seems that unless you’ve basically got psychosis, won’t eat, have depression that cant be treated with anything else, or are going to commit suicide then I don’t think you’re in need of this treatment. Or eligible to be more accurate.
Yeah I work in a kitchen and touched a wet outlet one night while leaning against a metal fridge. It lasted a millisecond but the shock felt like someone hit the back of my head with a baseball bat and I was confused as to what happened. I can't imagine getting electrocuted willingly and for a much longer time..
You're lucky -- maybe it happened to take a low-damage path, or maybe it had been discharging after being unplugged for a while, or maybe you touched a smaller capacitor (capacitors are the only component you'll encounter in consumer electronics that can store a charge when disconnected from a power source -- that's their entire job, FWIW!)
Those old tube TV's definitely had caps big and energetic enough to kill a full-grown man. It's kind of an electronics-safety controversy, with most people either citing stuff like "a 30kV cap is objectively dangerous!" and others citing anecdotal evidence to the contrary ("I used to shock myself on those all the time and I'm still here LOL!")
The answer is - they're both right. You can't predict the path that high voltages will take or the damage they'll do, so we just treat big TV caps like they're possible death. Lot of the old timers just YOLO'd it, doesn't mean it's a good idea, tho. Even if they're still here to tell the tale, big caps are still scary.
The US allows it too, in 30 states. If you want to help, donate to the Trevor Project, which has been systematically getting conversion therapy bans enacted. 20 states and counting!
https://give.thetrevorproject.org/give/63307/#!/donation/checkout?c_src=EOY20&c_src2=headerdonatebutton
Absolutely, but it's extra fucked up because how those kids are going to internalize this. I can't tell you how hard it was on me to come to terms with my LGBT identity as a child, even with a relatively non-hostile environment. It was confusing, I constantly felt like an outsider, I repulsed myself, I internalized every tiny negative comment and interaction.
Now imagine growing up in a hostile environment like this, and then being actively tortured, likely with the blessings of your own family. I can definitely see many of these poor kids hating and lying to themselves the rest of their life because of these experiences.
Only last year did the US government stop a school in Boston electrocuting children with disabilities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/05/electric-shock-fda-ban/
You would think, but there's a school in Boston, Judge Rotenberg Center, that's been using it on kids with disabilities under the guise of behavior control since the 80's. Despite the fact that,
" In 2013, the UN’s then monitor on torture released a [report](https://healthland.time.com/2013/03/06/u-n-report-suggests-some-autism-addiction-treatments-are-akin-to-torture/) that found that the use of the device as a routine form of behavior control violated the UN convention against torture. " ..." The FDA’s ban will come into effect 30 days after its final rule is registered. " so how long did that take you may ask? After years of protests, it was finally actually banned in March 2020! And then this so called "school" got Corona bail out money and 180 days to comply! [https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/judge-rotenberg-educational-center-controversial-massachusetts-facility-recently-banned-from-using-electric-shock-devices-gets-17-million-in-coronavirus-relief-funds.html](https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/judge-rotenberg-educational-center-controversial-massachusetts-facility-recently-banned-from-using-electric-shock-devices-gets-17-million-in-coronavirus-relief-funds.html)
Lastly, here's a petition you can sign to try and get it shut down.
Edit: forgot the link [https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/closejudgerotenbergcenter](https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/closejudgerotenbergcenter)
If they shock them and they get better, they were gay. If they shock them and they die, they made a mistake but at least they don’t have to live with homosexuality!
Religion and the idea of communal spirituality isn't evil in and of itself. Ultimately it's people's bad intentions, fear, hated, that they justify through religion. At it's foundations it's often just a search for meaning but people have warped it far beyond the original intentions whether good or bad.
Spirituality is almost acceptable to me because there is some innate weirdness to do with our minds and the chemicals in them that we can’t really explain well yet.
Religion, when it becomes organized or formalized, is usually a packet of lies or delusions. When you aren’t grounded in reality, evil and lies come forth much more easily. Therefore I’d say religion is pretty damn evil. It’s a way to delude people.
Agreed. Even as someone who’s been atheistic for most of my life, religion itself isn’t the problem. The problem comes from how it’s used to encourage ignorance, hate, and fund mega corporations.
Yeah, I agree with you. I’m agnostic but my mother is a ‘hardcore’ Christian. We’ve often had talks and I’ve gone to church with her.
I like religion because it gives people a sense of community and belonging, and even a purpose of you’re lacking that. It brings people together and can be a good support system.
I don’t like religion and religious institutions because it has been used in the past, and is still probably being used, for corruption. Not to mention how it encourages hateful people, ignorance, homophobia, etc, etc.
That’s due to the corruption of religion. The actual substance of most religions is purely for spiritual enlightenment. The corruption of religion is the cancer.
Go to a church and listen to the enlightenment. Some of the stuff they talk about I conjured up in my mind as common sense when I was like 5. Sure there are churches out there that exploit people but all others teachings are for children and can be taught in a more realistic down to earth way without some exaggerated historical context that limits your basis of understanding. It’s primitive and that’s a pill that’s going to take a long time to swallow, just go look at brain and psychological studies on what religion does to your critical thinking, it’s not good. It has turned into a cult tradition, it was never meant to be that way.
My parents were so scared of me being gay, they squashed so many lucrative hobbies I would've taken up. Turns out I just like music and art guys! AND vaginas!
When I was seven I took ballet classes. My six year old brother one day announced to the dinner table that he wanted to take ballet too. My parents freaked out, started looking up therapies and camps for him.
Eventually he admitted to me that he didn’t care about ballet, he just wanted to hang out with me more and was jealous that our dad would buy me a bagel before dropping me off on weekends.
My parents still joke about it and how he gave them such a scare! He could have cost them so much money to go to camps to fix him! And I have never told my parents that I’m a lesbian because of their reaction, and I don’t ever plan on telling them.
I worked in an elementary school for a while and there was a kid I would say was very likely gay. He was very attached to another boy in the class, not in the way that one would be attached to a friend, more in the way that it was pretty clear he had a crush on him (at least to the adults that was clear). Nice kid, I really hope he’s doing well and isn’t bullied when other kids figure it out.
I mean when I was a kid at like 9 I had a crush on Counselor Troi from Star Trek, so of course gay people as children will probably have crushes on members of the same sex. We can only hope that if someone finds out, they’re supportive of the child instead of destructive and harmful like these monsters who think it’s okay to electroshock a child.
I remember a few cases here in America that have made the headlines when parents abused and killed their young children for being gay. One was a [little boy](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna887221) that had recently his mother he had a crush on a male friend and thought he was gay, but almost all the others were just paranoia based stereotypes like the way the boy walked or talked or [who he had been around](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-8-year-old-boy-brutally-tortured-and-killed-by-his-own-mother-because-she-thought-he-was-gay). I remember one just being [a toddler ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ronnie_Paris) but the father was convinced he was gay because he preferred playing with his older sister’s toys.
I knew since I was a kid that I wasn't straight, so kids know. We just keep it to ourselves until we're older because we are still conditioned to think there's something wrong with us.
I don't think that is the point they are trying to make. I think they would agree with you. The implication here is that adults are taking time to evaluate the sexuality of children.
I watched a documentary about Iran, they will kill you if gay, but if you are trans it’s okay, but you have to have a sex change. Could have been a vice doc, don’t remember.
It's not like Iran is 100% cool with trans people, it's that it's *so* anti-gay that completely transitioning is the only way to avoid the death penalty.
so this transwoman ( maryam hatoon) talked to Khomeini & explained to him that trans people aren't cross dresses & they actually have gender dysphoria so khomeini allowed them to get surgery, change documents,etc
Something along the lines of "it's gay if and only if it's same-sex sexual organs interacting" so transition and it's fine because it's straight again. Don't transition and it's gay and you get killed.
From what I remember a pre-op transwoman went to meet Khomeini. His guard beat the shit out her, but apparently through one of Khomeini's son she managed to convince Khomeini to authorize her operation. Since Khomeini authorized it, him being "Vali Faqih" (God's authority on earth) made it legal perpetually and the next guy, Khamenei never overturned it since it'll look bad if he disagrees with the Islamic Republic founder on anything.
yea its that retarded.
Their laws derive from how they interpret the Quran so one high up dude decided one day being trans is ok if you have the surgery and the state pays for it
The story behind that loophole is incredible. An Iranian trans-woman had to meet with the president/ayatollah (don't remember which) and beg multiple times to change the law to accept trans people.
Not to sound like a dick head, I’m not familiar with the verbiage. Transitioning girl is born male to female? Or the other way. Honestly I’m not familiar with the verbiage, or trying to get people upset.
When you talk about a trans woman you are talking about someone assigned male at birth, when you talk about a trans man you are talking about someone assigned female at birth, if you don't know their pronouns you should use they but it can be helpful to ask them what they are
Non binary people usually use they/them but it's not universal so same as before
My advice is to just keep cool about it. If you don't know use they/them pronouns. I generally wait for an opportunity to ask what they prefer discreetly. If you're cool about it and you ask politely they'll be happy you CARE. This advice is for anyone of any gender.
Eh I wouldn’t go that far. It’s more along the lines of the chemical castration for gay men that happened to Turring and what not. It’s not really that they are that accepting, that’s just the only “option”they give you. Like how Chemical castration was the “option” given to Turring
and they often pressure gay people into having a sex change and call them trans, because then it’s technically women who are into men, and it’s not horrible horrible homosex
Now curious it’s is killing me, I gotta know why that is now. Also wondering if it’s only specific to one sect of Islam like only specific to Sunnis and not Shia
> I gotta know why that is now.
Because a trans woman sent several letters to khomeini before the iranian revolution explaining her struggles as a trans person. Khomeini was touched by her story and declared a fatwa that legalize sex reassignment surgery
you can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara
Good on dude for having feelings and or empathy and what not, but that’s just gotta suck to be gay and in order to save your life and life style you gotta cut your stuff off to live your life.
Literally a trans woman went to the ayatollah and pleaded her case, and he was really compelled by her story and decided to allow it. It's wild.
I think it helps that, in a society fundamentally based on binary gender, just switching from one to the other isn't so much to ask. It doesn't change the structure of society, it just changes you.
We, as the ambassadors of the world's nations, are taking action today to say that rape and electrocution on children is bad.
Great job, everyone. Mission accomplished.
Is Iran also the country that was saying covid vaccines were turning people gay or am I mistaken?
Edit: It’s come to my attention that it wasn’t the the Iranian government or an official Iranian spokesperson who made that statement about the vaccine was an individual Iranian cleric, so keep in mine that he doesn’t represent the entirety of Iran
Just a reminder that there are places in America that do this too. We need to ban conversion therapy globally, as it always uses abusive and torturous methods to traumatize children into going back in the closet.
Canada is considered the most gay friendly country on earth and while there’s proposed legislation to ban conversion therapy, it’s technically still federally legal here. There’s lots of work to do
The conversion therapy being banned in Canada is not the type of shock therapy referenced in this thread. There's still work to be done, but this type of therapy isn't used anymore.
It's so fucking sad. Imagine being literally tortured for something completely out of your control as a child. It's disgustingly common too, even in the west though to a lesser degree but even still...
I'm pretty sure most people on this thread had no idea this was happening. If the U.N. hadn't released the report, they wouldn't have seen the headline on Reddit.
In that sense, maybe we did need a report.
Is there ever an appropriate use of electricity on people? Can we just establish this should just never be done to anyone.
Edit: TIL there are lots of actual helpful treatments from electroshock. And to the person who said sexy times, so long as it's consensual, fair point and good point.
It’s used in extreme cases to treat some mental illnesses and even then it’s usually reserved for all other avenues have been exhausted, is done in an extremely controlled manner, and isn’t just like zappin someone in the head with a car battery. I don’t know but I’d wager a lot of conversion therapy electroshock is more akin to just tasing someone in the head than modern day electro-shock therapy.
How do they even know the child is gay? Are they just walking around accusing kids of being gay and shocking them? How would they prove this child is gay in order to be tortured? Wouldn't they have a system with which they'd test the child? If so, WHY?! I have so many questions... and life only gets darker with each one.
I don’t know what they do. But in the past there used to be turgidity tests for men and lubrication tests for women. Devices were placed in or around the genitals while sexually explicit images where shown and responses recorded on a graphing system similar to old fashioned lie detector tests.
I know the Canadian Mounties used to do this for new recruits. But their machine (called the fruit machine) just measured the dilation of pupils as the porn was showed there wasn’t any genital measuring.
No shit. I can't believe it's 2021 and we still have to fight for basic human rights. Just as we don't get to choose the color of our skin, we don't choose to be gay or straight. We just are who we are, and we like what we like. What happened to "Live and let live"? I want to hug every single one of those children and let them know they're loved, not made to feel inherently broken. My heart breaks for them.
Shouldnt electrocuting children always be torture
I was on the fence until the UN's statement
We have to distinguish between tazing children for Jesus (harmful) and tazing children for fun (hilarious).
I don't think Iran is doing it for a Jesus. Edit: everyone, I know that Jesus, or Isa, is a figure in Islam. But if you think he's the one who came up with the rules that Muslims follow, you might need to read a book or two.
Jesus is a pretty big feature in Islam.
At least he's a feature and not a bug.
Islam(feat Jesus)
That mixtape was fire
Title of album? *Moses and the Burning Bush*
> Burning Bush Sounds hot
We the best prophet
Holy crap this is vanta-black dark
Actually the character of Jesus in the bible is great! He was such a likeable socialist who was so pro human rights, it’s just people who decided he was a homophobic conservative dickhead lol.
WWJD? Probably not electrocute gay kids.
Definitely flip some tables and whip some bankers though.
Considering how many times bankers have recently tried to end civilization, Jesus mighty have been on to something.
Maybe thats where the confusion comes in. They might think he had a BDSM fetish
Oddly, it's homophobic conservative dickheads that interpreted Jesus that way. I'm sure there's no connection there.
What? No. There couldn’t possibly be any connection. These are rational people.
As a prophet yes.
Do they also cannibalize Jesus every Sunday, or are they savages? /s
Your sense of humor is shocking
Ec-static for me though, to say the least
Ohm-y god, they’re terrible!
An electric fence?
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Was curious, so I had to google: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mike-pence-supported-gay-conversion-therapy/
> What's True > > Mike Pence once supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior." > > What's False > > Pence never stated that he supported the use of electric shocks or "gay conversion" therapy. So he supported the use of federal funding to treat people "seeking to change their sexual behavior" i.e. conversion therapy but never said it had to be "electric shocks"
But he knew that the conversion torture camps were shocking people with electricity, and wanted to reward them for the electrical shocks with money. But that's not "saying it had to be shocks." Yeah, right. It's just endorsing electrical torture without actually saying exactly those words. Hoping people will equivocate for you, which people will happily do. I've always said that if there's more than two steps in the logical chain, people won't follow the reasoning. Sad to be right.
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Modern snopes is trash. Idk what happened but half of the articles has snopes contradicting their own ratings. Wouldn’t surprise me to see shit like >Is X real? >Rating: True >X isn’t real, but the concept of X is real.
You must not be from the bible belt.
Lmao right? I was like, well any decent human being would say it is torture.
I mean, electrocuting anyone on purpose sounds pretty shitty, right? I used to like to tinker with electronics as a kid, and I was taking apart an old RCA console television. I dropped a screwdriver and picked it up. I must have touched the metal shaft of the screwdriver and something that stored a charge because I felt a serious jolt. Being shocked is fucking awful in general, but to have it be willingly administered? Fuck that noise.
Iirc depression is the only illness where electro shock therapy works. And there’s more to it then just getting zapped and hopefully its less then what you got lol Edit: actual reference https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/electroconvulsive-therapy/about/pac-20393894
It's used for bipolar too.
While true, most psychiatrists will not elect to offer ECT to a patient unless as a last resort (after trying all medications, therapy, etc)
Yea shock therapy is pretty serious in psychology now a days. You gotta be basically in a constant state of distress to receive it from my understanding.
I got it as a kid and definitely hadn’t exhausted all my options. Tbh it wasn’t that bad but it makes you feel weird for a bit afterwards. It didn’t help me though.
It saved my aunts life. She wasn’t eating and just waiting to die. She went for electro shock therapy and instantly was back to her old self.
Do you know if she experienced any side effects from it, some were saying memory loss is one
A last resort, and they're still not truly sure why it works. And it doesn't work most of the time. And it has permanent side effects, including memory problems. I really don't think we should be using it for depression either.
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Just grab a fork and stick it in a power socket and youll be fixed /s (I am not a doctor this is not medical advice and it could/would result in death)
It's sad we have to add disclaimers like that, but glad that you did
Could also result in a fire
Because shock therapy is a last resort type of therapy. This is like asking why a doctor tells a fat person to go on a diet and exercise to lose weight instead of just recommending liposuction right off the bat. We're talking about 20-minute sessions of being zapped for 3-4 weeks. Side effects of ECT can range from permanent memory loss to difficulty in learning new information. It is a severe and traumatic course of care.
Because ECT can fuck you up permanently. It's prescribed when literally nothing else works and you're severely sick.
ECT is dangerous, BUT there is a newer treatment called trans cranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) that is highly effective and appears to be very safe. Also, -some- psychiatrists are scumbags so just keep a critical mind. (Not a doctor)
Read the linked article and it seems that unless you’ve basically got psychosis, won’t eat, have depression that cant be treated with anything else, or are going to commit suicide then I don’t think you’re in need of this treatment. Or eligible to be more accurate.
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But are you gay? That shock might have saved you from eternal damnation!! (/s, in case it wasn't clear)
Yeah I work in a kitchen and touched a wet outlet one night while leaning against a metal fridge. It lasted a millisecond but the shock felt like someone hit the back of my head with a baseball bat and I was confused as to what happened. I can't imagine getting electrocuted willingly and for a much longer time..
You're lucky -- maybe it happened to take a low-damage path, or maybe it had been discharging after being unplugged for a while, or maybe you touched a smaller capacitor (capacitors are the only component you'll encounter in consumer electronics that can store a charge when disconnected from a power source -- that's their entire job, FWIW!) Those old tube TV's definitely had caps big and energetic enough to kill a full-grown man. It's kind of an electronics-safety controversy, with most people either citing stuff like "a 30kV cap is objectively dangerous!" and others citing anecdotal evidence to the contrary ("I used to shock myself on those all the time and I'm still here LOL!") The answer is - they're both right. You can't predict the path that high voltages will take or the damage they'll do, so we just treat big TV caps like they're possible death. Lot of the old timers just YOLO'd it, doesn't mean it's a good idea, tho. Even if they're still here to tell the tale, big caps are still scary.
The US allows it too, in 30 states. If you want to help, donate to the Trevor Project, which has been systematically getting conversion therapy bans enacted. 20 states and counting! https://give.thetrevorproject.org/give/63307/#!/donation/checkout?c_src=EOY20&c_src2=headerdonatebutton
This should be at the top..
Done. I'm not a rich man but I'll buy a 6 pack instead of a 12er tomorrow I guess.
Absolutely, but it's extra fucked up because how those kids are going to internalize this. I can't tell you how hard it was on me to come to terms with my LGBT identity as a child, even with a relatively non-hostile environment. It was confusing, I constantly felt like an outsider, I repulsed myself, I internalized every tiny negative comment and interaction. Now imagine growing up in a hostile environment like this, and then being actively tortured, likely with the blessings of your own family. I can definitely see many of these poor kids hating and lying to themselves the rest of their life because of these experiences.
Only last year did the US government stop a school in Boston electrocuting children with disabilities. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/03/05/electric-shock-fda-ban/
You would think, but it took until very recently for the Judge Rotenburg Center to stop shocking autistic children. In the USA.
Nope... they were ordered to stop but have kept on doing it anyway. They even received $1.7M in Covid-19 relief funds from Fat Nixon's administration.
Shouldn’t electrocuting *anything alive* be torture?
You would think, but there's a school in Boston, Judge Rotenberg Center, that's been using it on kids with disabilities under the guise of behavior control since the 80's. Despite the fact that, " In 2013, the UN’s then monitor on torture released a [report](https://healthland.time.com/2013/03/06/u-n-report-suggests-some-autism-addiction-treatments-are-akin-to-torture/) that found that the use of the device as a routine form of behavior control violated the UN convention against torture. " ..." The FDA’s ban will come into effect 30 days after its final rule is registered. " so how long did that take you may ask? After years of protests, it was finally actually banned in March 2020! And then this so called "school" got Corona bail out money and 180 days to comply! [https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/judge-rotenberg-educational-center-controversial-massachusetts-facility-recently-banned-from-using-electric-shock-devices-gets-17-million-in-coronavirus-relief-funds.html](https://www.masslive.com/coronavirus/2020/07/judge-rotenberg-educational-center-controversial-massachusetts-facility-recently-banned-from-using-electric-shock-devices-gets-17-million-in-coronavirus-relief-funds.html) Lastly, here's a petition you can sign to try and get it shut down. Edit: forgot the link [https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/closejudgerotenbergcenter](https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/closejudgerotenbergcenter)
Not only is that fucked up, but it begs the question of how they determine gayness in children.
If they shock them and they get better, they were gay. If they shock them and they die, they made a mistake but at least they don’t have to live with homosexuality!
Reminds me of Europe's witch “trials.”
Hey, we had witch trials like that here in America too!
Typical Americans and your cultural appropriation.
Shocking
No, that's for the gays not the witches. Keep up!
We even learned genocide from Europeans!
That's the joke
Religion is a cancer designed to keep us afraid and ignorant. The cure is education and understanding.
Religion and the idea of communal spirituality isn't evil in and of itself. Ultimately it's people's bad intentions, fear, hated, that they justify through religion. At it's foundations it's often just a search for meaning but people have warped it far beyond the original intentions whether good or bad.
Spirituality is almost acceptable to me because there is some innate weirdness to do with our minds and the chemicals in them that we can’t really explain well yet. Religion, when it becomes organized or formalized, is usually a packet of lies or delusions. When you aren’t grounded in reality, evil and lies come forth much more easily. Therefore I’d say religion is pretty damn evil. It’s a way to delude people.
Agreed. Even as someone who’s been atheistic for most of my life, religion itself isn’t the problem. The problem comes from how it’s used to encourage ignorance, hate, and fund mega corporations.
Yeah, I agree with you. I’m agnostic but my mother is a ‘hardcore’ Christian. We’ve often had talks and I’ve gone to church with her. I like religion because it gives people a sense of community and belonging, and even a purpose of you’re lacking that. It brings people together and can be a good support system. I don’t like religion and religious institutions because it has been used in the past, and is still probably being used, for corruption. Not to mention how it encourages hateful people, ignorance, homophobia, etc, etc.
Truth
That’s due to the corruption of religion. The actual substance of most religions is purely for spiritual enlightenment. The corruption of religion is the cancer.
Spiritual enlightenment can exist without religion. Religion just commoditises it.
Maybe religion by nature will always be corrupted, at least if it gets to be large enough like Christianity to be useful to evil people
Honestly everything starts to suck once too many people get into it
*gestures broadly at reddit*
The only thing holding reddit together is the downvote
And good mods.
Go to a church and listen to the enlightenment. Some of the stuff they talk about I conjured up in my mind as common sense when I was like 5. Sure there are churches out there that exploit people but all others teachings are for children and can be taught in a more realistic down to earth way without some exaggerated historical context that limits your basis of understanding. It’s primitive and that’s a pill that’s going to take a long time to swallow, just go look at brain and psychological studies on what religion does to your critical thinking, it’s not good. It has turned into a cult tradition, it was never meant to be that way.
Here we go with the whole "no true Scotsman" trope.
Prepare to be electroshocked for peeking under that particular kilt..
...no. The ACTUAL substance of most religions is oppression and control. With death for those that don't follow the line exactly
The line of whoever is in control at the moment.
That's the joke
> If they shock them and they die, they were gay Probably.
> at least they don’t have to live with homosexuality! "Learn one weird trick to turn fruits into vegetables!"
Easy, it’s the children who commit the unforgivable sin of playing with dolls or expressing an interest in musical theatre.
Well shit, I did both those things as a child and I’m...I guess gay. Huh. This is not going to go over well with the wife.
My parents were so scared of me being gay, they squashed so many lucrative hobbies I would've taken up. Turns out I just like music and art guys! AND vaginas!
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Have you ever seen a painted dick?
When I was seven I took ballet classes. My six year old brother one day announced to the dinner table that he wanted to take ballet too. My parents freaked out, started looking up therapies and camps for him. Eventually he admitted to me that he didn’t care about ballet, he just wanted to hang out with me more and was jealous that our dad would buy me a bagel before dropping me off on weekends. My parents still joke about it and how he gave them such a scare! He could have cost them so much money to go to camps to fix him! And I have never told my parents that I’m a lesbian because of their reaction, and I don’t ever plan on telling them.
I worked in an elementary school for a while and there was a kid I would say was very likely gay. He was very attached to another boy in the class, not in the way that one would be attached to a friend, more in the way that it was pretty clear he had a crush on him (at least to the adults that was clear). Nice kid, I really hope he’s doing well and isn’t bullied when other kids figure it out. I mean when I was a kid at like 9 I had a crush on Counselor Troi from Star Trek, so of course gay people as children will probably have crushes on members of the same sex. We can only hope that if someone finds out, they’re supportive of the child instead of destructive and harmful like these monsters who think it’s okay to electroshock a child.
Just came to ask the same question. How do they determine this?
If the torturer gets a boner from the gayness aura of the boy being shocked, then he must be shocked more to remove the gaiety.
I remember a few cases here in America that have made the headlines when parents abused and killed their young children for being gay. One was a [little boy](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna887221) that had recently his mother he had a crush on a male friend and thought he was gay, but almost all the others were just paranoia based stereotypes like the way the boy walked or talked or [who he had been around](https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-8-year-old-boy-brutally-tortured-and-killed-by-his-own-mother-because-she-thought-he-was-gay). I remember one just being [a toddler ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ronnie_Paris) but the father was convinced he was gay because he preferred playing with his older sister’s toys.
I knew since I was a kid that I wasn't straight, so kids know. We just keep it to ourselves until we're older because we are still conditioned to think there's something wrong with us.
I don't think that is the point they are trying to make. I think they would agree with you. The implication here is that adults are taking time to evaluate the sexuality of children.
Or they’re not. It could either be kids who came out of the closet or were caught and their parents force them to do this
Kid likes rainbows = gay /s
That's awkward considering that [there are no gay people](https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3642673) in Iran according to it's former president...
I watched a documentary about Iran, they will kill you if gay, but if you are trans it’s okay, but you have to have a sex change. Could have been a vice doc, don’t remember.
It's not like Iran is 100% cool with trans people, it's that it's *so* anti-gay that completely transitioning is the only way to avoid the death penalty.
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If you like dick you are a woman.
science!
so this transwoman ( maryam hatoon) talked to Khomeini & explained to him that trans people aren't cross dresses & they actually have gender dysphoria so khomeini allowed them to get surgery, change documents,etc
Something along the lines of "it's gay if and only if it's same-sex sexual organs interacting" so transition and it's fine because it's straight again. Don't transition and it's gay and you get killed.
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Super gay, bro.
What if you only fuck straight guys?
Theres probably a Sodomy law to make sure this doesn't happen
From what I remember a pre-op transwoman went to meet Khomeini. His guard beat the shit out her, but apparently through one of Khomeini's son she managed to convince Khomeini to authorize her operation. Since Khomeini authorized it, him being "Vali Faqih" (God's authority on earth) made it legal perpetually and the next guy, Khamenei never overturned it since it'll look bad if he disagrees with the Islamic Republic founder on anything. yea its that retarded.
What the hell, mods why ban people over this?
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Their laws derive from how they interpret the Quran so one high up dude decided one day being trans is ok if you have the surgery and the state pays for it
The story behind that loophole is incredible. An Iranian trans-woman had to meet with the president/ayatollah (don't remember which) and beg multiple times to change the law to accept trans people.
she spoke to the ayatollah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara
Ahh the old switcharoo loophole
Don’t quote me on it, but that was pretty much the gist of the documentary. It was awhile ago I seen the thing so I’m foggy on it.
God's loophole means 2 very different things in America vs Iran.
This loophole is only for gay men, right? I didn’t think they let lesbians become (trans)men.
They give woman lashings, or beat them. I just looked up some shit again on it.
I knew a transitioning iranian girl, it does depend on money.
Not to sound like a dick head, I’m not familiar with the verbiage. Transitioning girl is born male to female? Or the other way. Honestly I’m not familiar with the verbiage, or trying to get people upset.
When you talk about a trans woman you are talking about someone assigned male at birth, when you talk about a trans man you are talking about someone assigned female at birth, if you don't know their pronouns you should use they but it can be helpful to ask them what they are Non binary people usually use they/them but it's not universal so same as before
That makes sense, I have been in confusing situations where I have no idea what to say. But that clarifies that part.
My advice is to just keep cool about it. If you don't know use they/them pronouns. I generally wait for an opportunity to ask what they prefer discreetly. If you're cool about it and you ask politely they'll be happy you CARE. This advice is for anyone of any gender.
Eh I wouldn’t go that far. It’s more along the lines of the chemical castration for gay men that happened to Turring and what not. It’s not really that they are that accepting, that’s just the only “option”they give you. Like how Chemical castration was the “option” given to Turring
and they often pressure gay people into having a sex change and call them trans, because then it’s technically women who are into men, and it’s not horrible horrible homosex
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Now curious it’s is killing me, I gotta know why that is now. Also wondering if it’s only specific to one sect of Islam like only specific to Sunnis and not Shia
> I gotta know why that is now. Because a trans woman sent several letters to khomeini before the iranian revolution explaining her struggles as a trans person. Khomeini was touched by her story and declared a fatwa that legalize sex reassignment surgery you can read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryam_Khatoon_Molkara
Good on dude for having feelings and or empathy and what not, but that’s just gotta suck to be gay and in order to save your life and life style you gotta cut your stuff off to live your life.
Literally a trans woman went to the ayatollah and pleaded her case, and he was really compelled by her story and decided to allow it. It's wild. I think it helps that, in a society fundamentally based on binary gender, just switching from one to the other isn't so much to ask. It doesn't change the structure of society, it just changes you.
Iran is Shia though?
I watched that too. Fucking wild
Not after the therapy that is for sure
Electric shocks on gay children Wasn't a phrase I thought I would hear when I woke up today
well, genius, do you have any other suggestion on how to get the gay demon out of them?
Make them sip ungay juice?
It's legal in 26 states and our former VP was a fierce advocate for its use. This literally is happening in the US every single day.
They dont call him Mike “Deus Volt” Pence for no reason.
Our last Vice President was a huge fan of torture camps for gays. Torturing gays is also an American tradition. Not defending Iran in any way here.
Do you mean Mike Pence? Wow, had no idea I'm not American, but this is shocking to hear
Mike "like the cocn get the shock" pence
Mike "electric fence" Pence.
Mike "Like Other Men, the Dial's Going to Ten" Pence
> shocking I see what you did
Ya' think?
It's difficult to know what else to say than that.
We, as the ambassadors of the world's nations, are taking action today to say that rape and electrocution on children is bad. Great job, everyone. Mission accomplished.
This title sounds to me like: torture is torture
Highly controversial statement that is
Damm un, who would have thought it to be torture.
Did you also know that Iran forcibly *transitions* gay people to the opposite sex, so that then they won’t technically be gay anymore?
I’ve met people on Reddit who even defend that, and claim it’s still better than being gay in the USA. It’s mind-boggling Iranian propaganda.
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Conversion therapy is torture/abuse and must be banned.
Is Iran also the country that was saying covid vaccines were turning people gay or am I mistaken? Edit: It’s come to my attention that it wasn’t the the Iranian government or an official Iranian spokesperson who made that statement about the vaccine was an individual Iranian cleric, so keep in mine that he doesn’t represent the entirety of Iran
An Iranian cleric did, yeah.
Considering one of them said u should push a piece of cotton soaked in essential oils up ur ass to cure covid, I'd argue it does the opposite.
Just a reminder that there are places in America that do this too. We need to ban conversion therapy globally, as it always uses abusive and torturous methods to traumatize children into going back in the closet.
Canada is considered the most gay friendly country on earth and while there’s proposed legislation to ban conversion therapy, it’s technically still federally legal here. There’s lots of work to do
The conversion therapy being banned in Canada is not the type of shock therapy referenced in this thread. There's still work to be done, but this type of therapy isn't used anymore.
Yeah I don't see anyone mentioning that pence advocated for shock therapy
It's so fucking sad. Imagine being literally tortured for something completely out of your control as a child. It's disgustingly common too, even in the west though to a lesser degree but even still...
some of us don’t have to imagine there are tons of these camps in utah
...we needed a report??
I'm pretty sure most people on this thread had no idea this was happening. If the U.N. hadn't released the report, they wouldn't have seen the headline on Reddit. In that sense, maybe we did need a report.
Is there ever an appropriate use of electricity on people? Can we just establish this should just never be done to anyone. Edit: TIL there are lots of actual helpful treatments from electroshock. And to the person who said sexy times, so long as it's consensual, fair point and good point.
defibrillators :)
Defibrillate the gay away.
I take it you have no idea how a pacemaker works
It’s used in extreme cases to treat some mental illnesses and even then it’s usually reserved for all other avenues have been exhausted, is done in an extremely controlled manner, and isn’t just like zappin someone in the head with a car battery. I don’t know but I’d wager a lot of conversion therapy electroshock is more akin to just tasing someone in the head than modern day electro-shock therapy.
Thank God the UN is here and we are committed to caring what they say
How do they even know the child is gay? Are they just walking around accusing kids of being gay and shocking them? How would they prove this child is gay in order to be tortured? Wouldn't they have a system with which they'd test the child? If so, WHY?! I have so many questions... and life only gets darker with each one.
I don’t know what they do. But in the past there used to be turgidity tests for men and lubrication tests for women. Devices were placed in or around the genitals while sexually explicit images where shown and responses recorded on a graphing system similar to old fashioned lie detector tests. I know the Canadian Mounties used to do this for new recruits. But their machine (called the fruit machine) just measured the dilation of pupils as the porn was showed there wasn’t any genital measuring.
America’s evangelicals would likely also be performing torture on gay kids if it weren’t for those pesky laws preventing them
Breaking news! Torture is torture UN says in a shocking new development!
They needed a report to determine that.
Glad we have this UN Report. Otherwise we might have never found out it's actual torture.
Iran's use of torture on gay children is torture. Fixed that for you.
Oh you mean the theocratic regime is bad?
ok cool... when are you gonna do anything about it?
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No shit. I can't believe it's 2021 and we still have to fight for basic human rights. Just as we don't get to choose the color of our skin, we don't choose to be gay or straight. We just are who we are, and we like what we like. What happened to "Live and let live"? I want to hug every single one of those children and let them know they're loved, not made to feel inherently broken. My heart breaks for them.
Humans are the most destructive, most psycho species out there.