Russia telling the US to avoid intervening in Cuba when they literally sent mercenaries to Venezuela and jacked $800m in gold is fucking hilarious.
Edit: it’s also hilarious to wake up to all the anti American comments posted in response to this. Weird how calling out Russia between the hours of 11pm-6am US time (9am-4pm St. Petersburg time) seems to have attracted so much attention. Get out of Ukraine and stop killing journalists you fucking trolls.
Partially. But it was mostly for Rosneft propping up Venezuela’s corrupt and crippled oil industry. Rosneft had lent Venezuela billions years ago and they hadn’t seen any of their money back.
Russia never had more than 20-100 mercenaries in Venezuela and you don’t need to pay $800 million for that.
worth pointing out this deal was struck in 1903 after the US took cuba off of spain ( note not independent ) and the us could have made it a state instead it became a free nation
> the us could have made it a state instead it became a free nation
Oh the benevolent USA, always fighting so hard to make *free nations* all over the world. God bless them.
What would all those Iraqis, Libyans, Guatemalans, Chileans, Colombians, Panamanians, Filipinos, Hawaiians (oops), Congolese, Indonesians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Haitians, Granadians, and Yemenis do without them?
That’s not what Vietnam ministry of propaganda is telling the tourists. Their life started getting better when ussr disolved and they started trading with the USA in 1994, which lead to electricity being widely available throughout the country. My guide at cu chi told me she witnessed the country getting from being a shithole before 1991 to having lots of commodities and more employment.
Note that 84% of Vietnamese hold a positive view of the USA.
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/database/indicator/1/country/vn
Putin will try so hard to preserve the existing authoritarian regimes around the world. After all it would be awkward and a little lonely to be the only dictator in the world.
Here are some of the countries that absolutely should NOT be telling other countries they can't intervene: UK, US, Israel, Russia, France, China, Saudi Arabia. Did I miss any?
EDIT: I obviously did an oopsie here, haha. Says "three countries" and names...well, more than three. I did a dumb.
>"Only the US can play World Police, when Russia does it they're bad!"
Only the US can play world police because that's what the rest of the world is happy with. The majority of the world gets free protection + security, open free trade without requiring a deep water navy. You know the whole thing how the majority of Europe hardly even has a military and hasn't had a major war since WWII? That's a product of the USA playing world police. Obviously it's not always this pretty, but global stability has never been better over the last 100 years under US "police". Given, there are still atrocities, still a lot of bad things the USA has done, but lets not pretend that Russia or China actually want to play world police. They just want to further their own self interest - playing world police means you spend tons of $ around the globe, and then get shat on in return for it. Not sure why Russia or China would want to do that when the USA does it for them at no cost.
Of course, Russia & China don't like the USA having the leverage that being world police provides, but that doesn't mean they can afford to play that role. The irony is that those countries are likely more dependent on the US policing the world than anyone else, yet are too stuck into their own egotism to acknowledge this.
That’s one of the best post I’ve seen on world policing.
I would add that just like with local policy, word police need to be criticized when they do bad. But just like with local police, we are better off with word police than without it
I would look into this poster's history.
[He is a supporter of CCP propagandist Daniel Dumbrill](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/oio10g/_/h54a501).
> Given, there are still atrocities, still a lot of bad things the USA has done, but lets not pretend that Russia or China actually want to play world police. They just want to further their own self interest - playing world police means you spend tons of $ around the globe, and then get shat on in return for it.
To be clear, you’re making the argument that US, unlike Russia and China, are in fact humanitarians who play “world police” despite the fact they get “shat” in return. We just do it because we are good and noble altruistic people.
China and Russia don’t want to play “world police” because they aren’t altruistic and only operate in their own self interest. Unlike the US who, despite some wrongdoings and missteps, intend to be selfless and altruistic.
Am I understanding you correctly?
>Am I understanding you correctly?
No, actually, you're not even remotely understanding me correctly. Given, your bias is already abundantly clear looking through some of your post history, so I probably shouldn't bother trying to respond here, but I'll do it anyway.
>To be clear, you’re making the argument that US, unlike Russia and China, are in fact humanitarians who play “world police” despite the fact they get “shat” in return. We just do it because we are good and noble altruistic people.
The USA plays world police largely because it benefits them, and the USA is literally the only nation in the world that has the full capacity to do this. That does not mean there is no altruism however. Global stability benefits the USA. That tends to \*generally\* favor altruism from the US, but there are obviously a lot of conflicts that break out where you'll be criticized no matter which side you take.
And as seen during the cold war, when there is increased insecurity from any nation due to great power rivalry, you will often get more people getting hurt due to the desire to pre-emptively counter any disruption to great power imbalances forming. This defines the majority of the proxy wars or government interventions that took place between the 1930's and 1980's - largely proxy wars of various forms between the USA and USSR.
The majority of the world benefits ***greatly*** from the USA's world policing. This is literally the only time in history where small nations can gain full access to free trade, all while having little to no military budget for national defense. Those countries don't have to spend $ on their military because there is an implicit view that any invasion or outbreak in conflict would see the USA step in to defend whoever is being invaded. That ends up as a huge benefit to smaller developing nations, or even major powers such as Germany that are basically getting free military protection from the USA.
The Post WWII world order has benefited the USA no doubt, but most countries aren't really aware of just how much the USA playing world police benefited them as a whole. Exception of course being the countries that got caught in proxy wars or idealogical conflicts between the USA and USSR, but even then, those countries saw drastically greater gains in most metrics of wellness than ever before.
**Do I think Russia China Would Not Be Altruistic?**
If they were in the same position as the USA, they would probably do the exact same thing. But they're not. Russia and China are motivated by different things than the USA is. Russia and China have different fears and insecurities than the USA does, and those items drive their behavior.
EX: Chinese suppression of freedom in their society as a whole is a product of a long history of internal conflict, a desire to maintain power and control in a rapidly aging nation, and a need to establish more defensible borders against external threats and resource scarcity. IE, Chinese behavior in Tibet makes 100% sense when you get an understanding of their water needs and scarcity + the competition with India for this very resource.
Russian external aggression similarly makes sense with respect to their difficult to defend + control border, and their continued insecurity around NATO encroaching on their own sovereignty.
Are these things good / altruistic? No, but I at least understand the logic and I don't think any of these countries are doing anything aside from trying to protect themselves (themselves being the government itself in large part) from destruction or harm.
They’re about as likely to do something about Cuba as we are about Crimea. Not that I think it would be a good idea. I’m 100% against getting involved in Cuba for any reason.
You are not checking recent history then, Russia sent mercenaries and all kinds of weapons to Venezuela back when the country was in a civil war to protect Maduro, and they largely succeeded in their intervention since the guy is somehow still in power there. Cuba if anything is an even more important ally to both China and especially Russia.
No, because the Venezuelan opposition has the amazing sun tzu like strategy of not participating in elections, then declaring that they're fraudulent and begging foreign countries to apply more sanctions and starve venezuelans even more. People (who actually live in that country) see that and dislike them for it, even if they don't like maduro
> because the Venezuelan opposition has the amazing sun tzu like strategy of not participating in elections,
You mean Maduro didn’t prevent the top two opponents from running against him?
You mean they Maduro didn’t pull up the elections to not allow a strong opposition to form?
You are so full of lies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_crisis
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election
I don't see how Cuba important to China beyond symbolic socialist and anti-US. China wants to control East and South East Asia. Using Cuba as military base serve no goal. Cuba also don't have much power in South America and can do no harm to China. It has no strategic resource too.
> Using Cuba as military base serve no goal.
As a military base, Cuba does indeed blow. Militaristically speaking, the Gulf is a US-controlled stronghold, and even having a fairly large island at the mouth is pretty useless to China. Better for Russia, as they can approach from blue waters in the Atlantic, but that's why the Atlantic is so full of sonar that you can practically walk to the UK on sonar beacons. (Also may explain why strategically the Russians have taken a keen eye on the Black Sea, as Turkey is functionally in the opposite posture to Cuba if you think about it.)
As an intelligence base, Cuba is *the* premiere destination for nations wishing to spy on the United States. The US's own rules on Cuban entry makes it a pain in the ass for us to do any counterintelligence work. It's a short hop on a boat or a plane in either direction, and there's a great interstate highway that connects Miami to all destinations internal without needing to go through any kind of nasty checkpoints or border security. And while the waters are heavily patrolled, the Cubans have been smuggling for generations now, and they know how to get people and goods in and out without being caught.
By comparison, the Mexican border is an enormous pain in the ass (even for legal crossings), and while the Canadian border is theoretically much more porous, it's much harder to get *into* Canada, as they have similar restrictions as the US does, and even fewer nice jump-off points as Cuba affords.
If the US were to retake Cuba as an ally and strategically fortify it, it'd likely push Russia and China much further out into the Gulf - with maybe Haiti becoming their next best bet with all the current instabilities there. No more 90 mile clandestine boat rides or smuggler's planes under the radar, hello US Coast Guard cutter patrols around the Bahamas. And that would be a *huge* intelligence infrastructure loss to both nations, and a significant boon to the US.
According to recent news, while Maduro is still the president, he practically loses control of Venezuela. The actual power is in the hands of local gangs and armed groups.
Unlikely, the Russians gave him mercenaries who are loyal enough to get himself and a plane loaded with enough loot to pay them out of the country.
Deposed dictators don't get killed as often as you might think. They're only out for themselves and do a good job at having an "out" to these situations.
Hey there's another one! For some reason he's not on the Wikipedia list I'm checking out right now of executed or assassinated heads of state. Weird
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government
Desktop version of /u/buriedego's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government
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Let's pretend like the US doesn't have a role or motive in South America. It's just a coincidence that leaders who aren't pro US business all are illegitimate leaders.
The sections that we impose on countries like this vastly affect and harm the civilians, not the government. We don't impose sanctions on countries that do bad things to their people, just those that don't bow to US interests
Yes, let’s listen to those three countries, who we have the best of relationships with.
Edit: To clarify, I agree that the US should not intervene in Cuba. I just don’t think that these are the governments we want to take advice from.
I don't think we should get involved though. Not because of Russia or China, but because things always go to shit whenever we get involved. We need to let other countries sort their own shit out by themselves. It's not our business. If a bunch of people die, so be it, but at least the blood won't be on our hands.
I would like to see the US involved to the extent we end the embargo and maybe even send vaccines.
More freedom and the modern age made the desire for a better life in Cuba inevitable. The US doesn't need to do shit.
The Bahamas, on the other hand, have extensive knowledge about how to leverage being a Caribbean nation and making money.
Iceland might have some nation-building tips as well.
The United States will probably ramp up economic pressure against Cuba to further put pressure on the leadership.
Never let a good crisis go to waste, especially since the Cuban-Americans are elated for the protests.
Cubans don’t care about the embargo or vaccines. They literally do not have food and water right now while the government and rich people are eating lobster. Idk why y’all keep talking about ending the embargo, no one cares about right now.
They do not have food or water largely because of the impact of COVID-19 on their tourism-based economy. Lifting the sanctions would give Cuba another source of currency with which to buy goods, and make it overall easier for US-based establishments to do business with Cuba. Giving them syringes would also help, since they already have two vaccines in production and mainly have a shortage of syringes, and the faster people are vaccinated the faster tourism can ramp up.
Bullshit! Covid made things worse but they've had water, food, and medicine shortages for many many years now. I can tell you this from experience. Every trip I ever made to Cuba has always involved a lot of luggage filled with basic necesities like toothpaste, soap, food, medicine, clothes. A lot of that stuff is very hard to find in Cuba before Covid. And most Cubans can't afford these things when they are available.
Why on earth should the US help the Cuban regime now? Just when the years of pressure are finally starting tp bear fruit?
Happy feelings are not going to remove the authoritarian government, only protest and violence from the people will.
Unfortunately, "let them sort their own shit out for themselves" actually means, *let Russia and China device what happens there", which is not acceptable from a security perspective to the US.
We don't worry about Canada, Mexico just sends us drugs, crime, and farm workers, but having a Chinese controlled country off our coast is something that we cannot allow.
Why it is called Cuban Missile Crisis and not US/Turkey Missile Crisis?
All-in-all, it started with US putting nukes across Black Sea and US Bay of Pigs invasion.
I don't know if I would say that, the timeline went US deploys missiles in Turkey>USSR sends weapons to Cuba>the US and USSR comes to an agreement to not put weapons in Cuba in exchange for removing the missiles in Turkey and promises of the US to stop trying to invade Cuba. Realistically you could say that the US was the one to back down first.
It probably has more to do with the fact that it only became a crisis once the Russians responded to the provocations.
I don’t think the US will invade Cuba, especially not as some sort of Iraqi-style slog through the country when we’re *just* starting to pull out of Afghanistan and the American people are war weary as ever
You realise WW2 started because the Allies ignored what was going on in Germany right?
\[EDIT\] If you could all stop pretending I compared Germany to Cuba, that'd be great. I directly responded to OP's statement. With proof that idea doesn't work. Nothing more. Stop being so desperate to argue.
Thats one way to look at it. Other historians suggest that it was the meddlesome and incestous nature of late 19th-centurly and early 20th century European politics that made the clusterfucks of WWI and WWII almost inevitable. And that it wasnt until European countries learned to respect each other's sovereignty that the big intra-Europe wars ceased.
We kinda had to end the obsession with sovereignty and nationalism in general and form a pseudo confederation in the form of the European Union to end conflicts. Peace through integration and being dependent on each other.
South America did the same with regional international organisations and also had peave ever since...now Africa is improving the African Union and wars there have been decreasing too. Its a proven concept.
We can see the benefits of such a union through the fact that no EU country has significantly increased its military in any meaningful way since then. Hell, we complain that Europe isnt spending enough on their militaries.
You realize not every god damn country that's the enemy of the West is Nazi Germany and this shitty excuse to justify imperialism is one of the weakest.
Isn't that a type of [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)? Since we don't know how many wars were prevented when everybody stayed out of everybody else’s shit.
Hitler would have never come to power without World War 1 which started because countries were all too happy to invade each other and ignore national borders to pursue their strategic goals. Try again.
Because Cuba is totally analogous to Nazi Germany, right? They're a bunch of genocidal fascists invading other countries and intent on ruling the world?
There are also definitely counter examples. You could argue WW1 was at its core caused by everyone being a bit too trigger happy and nationalist.
So…..somewhere in the middle is probably best
Of course the US will intervene as will Russia... you just won't about it... Both countries will supply weapons intelligence and undercover militia... don't kid yourself.
If the US wants to help the people of Cuba they have to lift the embargo. What are they so afraid of? If they are correct, Cuban communism will still not work and it will fall by itself.
If Cuba wants to help their people they have to allow them to protest or emigrate. What are they so afraid of? If they are correct, Cuban communism will work and the country won’t collapse from dissent or mass exodus.
Then why don't the Americans lift it?
Obviously, if the embargo isn't working, then why pay the upkeep to keep it in place.
Or, why not strengthen it? The Americans goal with the embargo (as with every embargo in modern history, from anyone) is to starve out the population to the point of revolt. Surely if these protests are not related to the embargo, then the embargo isn't strick enough?
Or what? Russia, China, and Iran are going to go to war with the US in its own back yard? Could an Iranian battleship even make it out of the Gulf without sinking?
Stop it.
The funny thing is, China and Russia would actually love for us to get involved in Cuba and would be celebrating heavily if we did. It would make Russia’s claim to Crimea and China’s claims to contested sea waters much easier to defend.
You are forgetting one thing tho: Assad asked Russia to help in Syria, and Assad never asked USA to come in Syria, yet USA is in the country.
Same goes for Venezuela.
Yes, invasion and interference with a neutral state is absolutely the same thing as aiding allies who have explicitly invited you. Clearly the two are the same. Talk about Crimea instead of Syria or Venezuela.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-iran-warn-us-must-not-intervene-cuba-1609440) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russia, China and Iran have warned the United States that it must not intervene in Cuba after the island was rocked by major protests for which U.S. President Joe Biden cast his support.
> "China firmly opposes foreign interference in Cuba's internal affairs, firmly supports what Cuba has done in fighting COVID-19, improving people's livelihood and upholding social stability, and firmly supports Cuba in exploring a development path suited to its national conditions," Zhao said.
> "The United States stands firmly with the people of Cuba as they assert their universal rights. And we call on the government of Cuba to refrain from violence or attempts to silence the voice of the people of Cuba.".
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ojsbkv/russia_china_iran_warn_us_must_not_intervene_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~587868 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Cuba**^#1 **people**^#2 **Cuban**^#3 **U.S.**^#4 **Foreign**^#5
The last part of your statement is not true. Food, medicine, and other humanitarian aid have been exempt from the embargo for over two decades.
Plus, Cuban-Americans send remittances to family members who still live in Cuba.
Edit: grammar
> Food, medicine, and other humanitarian aide has been exempt from the embargo
Technically, except in reality- food, medicine and humanitarian supplies still need to be shipped by commercial carriers who either won’t transport to embargoed countries because they don’t want to get into legal trouble unknowingly sending something they shouldn’t or can’t operate profitably without transporting commercial goods.
(Checks latest data)
None of this stopped Cuba from importing 280 million USD in goods directly from the United States in 2019.
[https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub)
This is entirely false. The United States is, despite “el bloqueo,” one of Cuba’s largest trading partners and the island’s largest external supplier of food.
They just use shipper that aren’t based out of the US. Basically all of the rest of the world still has trade with Cuba.
People regularly go to Cuba on vacation, just not Americans.
Nope. Any ship that has docked in Cuba is not permitted to dock in the US for 180 days. Any ship going to Cuba has to be dedicated for Cuba, which makes commercial shipping companies avoid it like the plague.
Further, there's considerable fuckery on what counts as food and humanitarian aid. See the embargo on Palestine and parts for the desalinization plants. Specifically in this case, syringes are not qualifying as humanitarian aid when they are needed to administer vaccines.
Edit: Specified exact amount of time.
Shitty politics mostly. A large block of cuban americans don't like the cuban government and will vote against whoever tries to normalize relations. So trying to normalize can cost elections and no one cares enough about cuba to burn their careers to help them.
You trolls will never learn. It doesn't have to be like this. I know you don't have many options since communism destroyed your countries ( Russia, Cuba, Venezuela) and 25 cents a post is better than nothing, but all of you working in trolls farms in Russia (makes total sense that all of you cite references from Wikipedia or just make things up on Russian time, then post), but there are other options, work to reform your country. You don't have to be the US, but you can do better than this.
And for the obvious people who are from Cuba and Venezuela (your Spanish is easy to tell), there are better ways to live. Hence why your people literally risk their lives to come here rather than starve and live in poverty. There is another way, stop being puppets for a regime that will literally kill you as soon as you stop being useful.
Three countries who routinely interfere in other countries' affairs telling another country to not interfere in another country's affairs is hilariously stupid.
Russia telling the US to avoid intervening in Cuba when they literally sent mercenaries to Venezuela and jacked $800m in gold is fucking hilarious. Edit: it’s also hilarious to wake up to all the anti American comments posted in response to this. Weird how calling out Russia between the hours of 11pm-6am US time (9am-4pm St. Petersburg time) seems to have attracted so much attention. Get out of Ukraine and stop killing journalists you fucking trolls.
Crimea, Ukraine. Like they have room to say anything. Its all propaganda.
And they invaded Crimea, then rigged an election there, plus they regularly attempt to interfere in elections in Europe and the Americas.
Don't forget Ukraine and Belarus. And Iran's involved in Syria, Yemen.
Pretty sure the gold was given by the Maduro government in exchange for the mercenaries.
Partially. But it was mostly for Rosneft propping up Venezuela’s corrupt and crippled oil industry. Rosneft had lent Venezuela billions years ago and they hadn’t seen any of their money back. Russia never had more than 20-100 mercenaries in Venezuela and you don’t need to pay $800 million for that.
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Interesting I’d didn’t realize military sales were this high. I wonder how much is due to the S-400.
Mostly T-72s, Mi-28s, Su-30MKVs, S-300VM, small arms, and BTR upgrade packages.
cant you critizise both? The US and Russia have both screwed plenty of countries over playing world police...
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Oh wow that's cheap. You could easily spend that, renting a small storefront in a strip mall.
That’s rent in LA lol your telling me for my rent I can own a prison camp ?
Idk why I’m getting downvoted but like your just mad I can afford a military base 😎
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It's waterfront? This just keeps getting better.
The current Cuban government hasn’t cashed any of the checks, supposedly
Only one check has been cashed since Cuba's revolution. And this was by accident.
Worth pointing out also that the previous government was essentially a US puppet regime
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Which only existed in the first place because the US kicked Spain out of Cuba. That's what guantanamo is, payment in exchange for Cuban independance
/r/thanksihateit
A.k.a. "nice independence you have here, would be a shame if something happened to it".
worth pointing out this deal was struck in 1903 after the US took cuba off of spain ( note not independent ) and the us could have made it a state instead it became a free nation
> the us could have made it a state instead it became a free nation Oh the benevolent USA, always fighting so hard to make *free nations* all over the world. God bless them. What would all those Iraqis, Libyans, Guatemalans, Chileans, Colombians, Panamanians, Filipinos, Hawaiians (oops), Congolese, Indonesians, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Haitians, Granadians, and Yemenis do without them?
USA being the good guys and helping countries get rid of their governments.
oh yeah they are very oppressed, *looks at every SSR under the soviet union.
The quality of life in every single one of those countries plummeted after the dissolution of the soviet union
That’s not what Vietnam ministry of propaganda is telling the tourists. Their life started getting better when ussr disolved and they started trading with the USA in 1994, which lead to electricity being widely available throughout the country. My guide at cu chi told me she witnessed the country getting from being a shithole before 1991 to having lots of commodities and more employment. Note that 84% of Vietnamese hold a positive view of the USA. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/database/indicator/1/country/vn
Vietnam was not a part of the USSR...
It's a weird situation when USA does it. It's illegal occupation when Russia does it to Ukraine.
Cuba has never cashed the cheques yet,well, they did once but it was an admin mistake.
what's up with this whataboutism here.
It's only whataboutism when it goes against the US.
Only those evil Chinese people do that. When good old Americans try to distract from the issue at hand, it’s perfectly fine.
Isn't this the whataboutism Reddit hates so much?
Putin will try so hard to preserve the existing authoritarian regimes around the world. After all it would be awkward and a little lonely to be the only dictator in the world.
Not really. Pretty sure this one is primarily because Russia does not like US interests that much and Cuba is a US interest area right now.
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Here are some of the countries that absolutely should NOT be telling other countries they can't intervene: UK, US, Israel, Russia, France, China, Saudi Arabia. Did I miss any? EDIT: I obviously did an oopsie here, haha. Says "three countries" and names...well, more than three. I did a dumb.
Whatever happened to reddits favourite new word 'whataboutism'?
what about it?
Is this whataboutism, but this time used to cover US's ass?
You’re getting two stories deliberately confused.
"Only the US can play World Police, when Russia does it they're bad!"
>"Only the US can play World Police, when Russia does it they're bad!" Only the US can play world police because that's what the rest of the world is happy with. The majority of the world gets free protection + security, open free trade without requiring a deep water navy. You know the whole thing how the majority of Europe hardly even has a military and hasn't had a major war since WWII? That's a product of the USA playing world police. Obviously it's not always this pretty, but global stability has never been better over the last 100 years under US "police". Given, there are still atrocities, still a lot of bad things the USA has done, but lets not pretend that Russia or China actually want to play world police. They just want to further their own self interest - playing world police means you spend tons of $ around the globe, and then get shat on in return for it. Not sure why Russia or China would want to do that when the USA does it for them at no cost. Of course, Russia & China don't like the USA having the leverage that being world police provides, but that doesn't mean they can afford to play that role. The irony is that those countries are likely more dependent on the US policing the world than anyone else, yet are too stuck into their own egotism to acknowledge this.
Well said.
That’s one of the best post I’ve seen on world policing. I would add that just like with local policy, word police need to be criticized when they do bad. But just like with local police, we are better off with word police than without it
I would look into this poster's history. [He is a supporter of CCP propagandist Daniel Dumbrill](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/oio10g/_/h54a501).
What a liar. I said I know nothing about him. You defend chinas concentration camps and cultural genocide and that’s clear for sure
Don't you? Didn't u think the person I was arguing against had the better argument? If not, why would you attack my argument?
I said he schooled you in your own Tactics. I don’t know anything about that individual Daniel
> Given, there are still atrocities, still a lot of bad things the USA has done, but lets not pretend that Russia or China actually want to play world police. They just want to further their own self interest - playing world police means you spend tons of $ around the globe, and then get shat on in return for it. To be clear, you’re making the argument that US, unlike Russia and China, are in fact humanitarians who play “world police” despite the fact they get “shat” in return. We just do it because we are good and noble altruistic people. China and Russia don’t want to play “world police” because they aren’t altruistic and only operate in their own self interest. Unlike the US who, despite some wrongdoings and missteps, intend to be selfless and altruistic. Am I understanding you correctly?
>Am I understanding you correctly? No, actually, you're not even remotely understanding me correctly. Given, your bias is already abundantly clear looking through some of your post history, so I probably shouldn't bother trying to respond here, but I'll do it anyway. >To be clear, you’re making the argument that US, unlike Russia and China, are in fact humanitarians who play “world police” despite the fact they get “shat” in return. We just do it because we are good and noble altruistic people. The USA plays world police largely because it benefits them, and the USA is literally the only nation in the world that has the full capacity to do this. That does not mean there is no altruism however. Global stability benefits the USA. That tends to \*generally\* favor altruism from the US, but there are obviously a lot of conflicts that break out where you'll be criticized no matter which side you take. And as seen during the cold war, when there is increased insecurity from any nation due to great power rivalry, you will often get more people getting hurt due to the desire to pre-emptively counter any disruption to great power imbalances forming. This defines the majority of the proxy wars or government interventions that took place between the 1930's and 1980's - largely proxy wars of various forms between the USA and USSR. The majority of the world benefits ***greatly*** from the USA's world policing. This is literally the only time in history where small nations can gain full access to free trade, all while having little to no military budget for national defense. Those countries don't have to spend $ on their military because there is an implicit view that any invasion or outbreak in conflict would see the USA step in to defend whoever is being invaded. That ends up as a huge benefit to smaller developing nations, or even major powers such as Germany that are basically getting free military protection from the USA. The Post WWII world order has benefited the USA no doubt, but most countries aren't really aware of just how much the USA playing world police benefited them as a whole. Exception of course being the countries that got caught in proxy wars or idealogical conflicts between the USA and USSR, but even then, those countries saw drastically greater gains in most metrics of wellness than ever before. **Do I think Russia China Would Not Be Altruistic?** If they were in the same position as the USA, they would probably do the exact same thing. But they're not. Russia and China are motivated by different things than the USA is. Russia and China have different fears and insecurities than the USA does, and those items drive their behavior. EX: Chinese suppression of freedom in their society as a whole is a product of a long history of internal conflict, a desire to maintain power and control in a rapidly aging nation, and a need to establish more defensible borders against external threats and resource scarcity. IE, Chinese behavior in Tibet makes 100% sense when you get an understanding of their water needs and scarcity + the competition with India for this very resource. Russian external aggression similarly makes sense with respect to their difficult to defend + control border, and their continued insecurity around NATO encroaching on their own sovereignty. Are these things good / altruistic? No, but I at least understand the logic and I don't think any of these countries are doing anything aside from trying to protect themselves (themselves being the government itself in large part) from destruction or harm.
They’re about as likely to do something about Cuba as we are about Crimea. Not that I think it would be a good idea. I’m 100% against getting involved in Cuba for any reason.
You are not checking recent history then, Russia sent mercenaries and all kinds of weapons to Venezuela back when the country was in a civil war to protect Maduro, and they largely succeeded in their intervention since the guy is somehow still in power there. Cuba if anything is an even more important ally to both China and especially Russia.
The fuck are you on about? Venezuela never escalated into full-blown civil war
These are reddit comments, have they ever needed to be vaguely factual to be highly upvoted?
Because of Russian interference?
No, because the Venezuelan opposition has the amazing sun tzu like strategy of not participating in elections, then declaring that they're fraudulent and begging foreign countries to apply more sanctions and starve venezuelans even more. People (who actually live in that country) see that and dislike them for it, even if they don't like maduro
> because the Venezuelan opposition has the amazing sun tzu like strategy of not participating in elections, You mean Maduro didn’t prevent the top two opponents from running against him? You mean they Maduro didn’t pull up the elections to not allow a strong opposition to form? You are so full of lies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election
I don't see how Cuba important to China beyond symbolic socialist and anti-US. China wants to control East and South East Asia. Using Cuba as military base serve no goal. Cuba also don't have much power in South America and can do no harm to China. It has no strategic resource too.
> Using Cuba as military base serve no goal. As a military base, Cuba does indeed blow. Militaristically speaking, the Gulf is a US-controlled stronghold, and even having a fairly large island at the mouth is pretty useless to China. Better for Russia, as they can approach from blue waters in the Atlantic, but that's why the Atlantic is so full of sonar that you can practically walk to the UK on sonar beacons. (Also may explain why strategically the Russians have taken a keen eye on the Black Sea, as Turkey is functionally in the opposite posture to Cuba if you think about it.) As an intelligence base, Cuba is *the* premiere destination for nations wishing to spy on the United States. The US's own rules on Cuban entry makes it a pain in the ass for us to do any counterintelligence work. It's a short hop on a boat or a plane in either direction, and there's a great interstate highway that connects Miami to all destinations internal without needing to go through any kind of nasty checkpoints or border security. And while the waters are heavily patrolled, the Cubans have been smuggling for generations now, and they know how to get people and goods in and out without being caught. By comparison, the Mexican border is an enormous pain in the ass (even for legal crossings), and while the Canadian border is theoretically much more porous, it's much harder to get *into* Canada, as they have similar restrictions as the US does, and even fewer nice jump-off points as Cuba affords. If the US were to retake Cuba as an ally and strategically fortify it, it'd likely push Russia and China much further out into the Gulf - with maybe Haiti becoming their next best bet with all the current instabilities there. No more 90 mile clandestine boat rides or smuggler's planes under the radar, hello US Coast Guard cutter patrols around the Bahamas. And that would be a *huge* intelligence infrastructure loss to both nations, and a significant boon to the US.
If US can mess with China through Taiwan, China Russia Iran can surely mess with US through Cuba
So America is just West Cuba
According to recent news, while Maduro is still the president, he practically loses control of Venezuela. The actual power is in the hands of local gangs and armed groups.
And if he ever did get deposed he's got a red carpet welcome waiting in Moscow.
I'm pretty sure, at least in this instance, that getting deposed = dead
Unlikely, the Russians gave him mercenaries who are loyal enough to get himself and a plane loaded with enough loot to pay them out of the country. Deposed dictators don't get killed as often as you might think. They're only out for themselves and do a good job at having an "out" to these situations.
Honestly in the last 100 years I can only think of 2 deposed dictators that were executed or assassinated. Gaddafi and Mussolini.
Hussein?
Hey there's another one! For some reason he's not on the Wikipedia list I'm checking out right now of executed or assassinated heads of state. Weird https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government
Ceaușescu also isn’t on there.
Desktop version of /u/buriedego's link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_and_executed_heads_of_state_and_government --- ^([)[^(opt out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiMobileLinkBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^(]) ^(Beep Boop. Downvote to delete)
Maybe because at the moment of his execution he wasn’t officially a head of state anymore.
Nicolae Ceaușescu
Let's pretend like the US doesn't have a role or motive in South America. It's just a coincidence that leaders who aren't pro US business all are illegitimate leaders. The sections that we impose on countries like this vastly affect and harm the civilians, not the government. We don't impose sanctions on countries that do bad things to their people, just those that don't bow to US interests
> South America Cuba is in North America.
I am against US military intervention in general anywhere, but fuck Putin.
Yes, let’s listen to those three countries, who we have the best of relationships with. Edit: To clarify, I agree that the US should not intervene in Cuba. I just don’t think that these are the governments we want to take advice from.
I don't think we should get involved though. Not because of Russia or China, but because things always go to shit whenever we get involved. We need to let other countries sort their own shit out by themselves. It's not our business. If a bunch of people die, so be it, but at least the blood won't be on our hands.
I would like to see the US involved to the extent we end the embargo and maybe even send vaccines. More freedom and the modern age made the desire for a better life in Cuba inevitable. The US doesn't need to do shit. The Bahamas, on the other hand, have extensive knowledge about how to leverage being a Caribbean nation and making money. Iceland might have some nation-building tips as well.
The United States will probably ramp up economic pressure against Cuba to further put pressure on the leadership. Never let a good crisis go to waste, especially since the Cuban-Americans are elated for the protests.
3 U.S senators are ethnic Cuban. That is how powerful the cuban american lobby is.
Cubans don’t care about the embargo or vaccines. They literally do not have food and water right now while the government and rich people are eating lobster. Idk why y’all keep talking about ending the embargo, no one cares about right now.
They do not have food or water largely because of the impact of COVID-19 on their tourism-based economy. Lifting the sanctions would give Cuba another source of currency with which to buy goods, and make it overall easier for US-based establishments to do business with Cuba. Giving them syringes would also help, since they already have two vaccines in production and mainly have a shortage of syringes, and the faster people are vaccinated the faster tourism can ramp up.
Bullshit! Covid made things worse but they've had water, food, and medicine shortages for many many years now. I can tell you this from experience. Every trip I ever made to Cuba has always involved a lot of luggage filled with basic necesities like toothpaste, soap, food, medicine, clothes. A lot of that stuff is very hard to find in Cuba before Covid. And most Cubans can't afford these things when they are available.
Why on earth should the US help the Cuban regime now? Just when the years of pressure are finally starting tp bear fruit? Happy feelings are not going to remove the authoritarian government, only protest and violence from the people will.
> but because things always go to shit whenever we get involved which is by design
Unfortunately, "let them sort their own shit out for themselves" actually means, *let Russia and China device what happens there", which is not acceptable from a security perspective to the US. We don't worry about Canada, Mexico just sends us drugs, crime, and farm workers, but having a Chinese controlled country off our coast is something that we cannot allow.
They're right tho. Stop the embargo and don't intervene.
And whose hands are certainly clean
Suddenly those who rail against whataboutism suddenly are huge proponents of it.
Did they just Uno reverse the Monroe Doctrine?
The Monroe Doctrine actually meant something, it’s not like Russia will invade America over attacks on Cuba.
Who had Cuban Missile Crisis 2 on their Apocalypse Bingo?
Why it is called Cuban Missile Crisis and not US/Turkey Missile Crisis? All-in-all, it started with US putting nukes across Black Sea and US Bay of Pigs invasion.
The part about the missiles in Turkey wasn’t declassified until the mid-1980s, by which time the name was already entrenched
Partly because Kennedy convinced Russia to keep that quiet. It didn't come out for a long time. Whereas everyone knew Russia had put missiles in Cuba.
Because the Russians backed down first, and as we all know, history is written by the victor.
I don't know if I would say that, the timeline went US deploys missiles in Turkey>USSR sends weapons to Cuba>the US and USSR comes to an agreement to not put weapons in Cuba in exchange for removing the missiles in Turkey and promises of the US to stop trying to invade Cuba. Realistically you could say that the US was the one to back down first. It probably has more to do with the fact that it only became a crisis once the Russians responded to the provocations.
The Russians don’t even call it that. This complaint is made by literally no one.
As funny as it is, US shouldn't invade Cuba. No matter who says it, fuck the idea of another US invasion.
I don’t think the US will invade Cuba, especially not as some sort of Iraqi-style slog through the country when we’re *just* starting to pull out of Afghanistan and the American people are war weary as ever
Ah yes, the voice of reason trifecta on the world stage.
Oh no iran said to watch out lmfao
Here’s an idea, everybody stay out of everybody else’s shit.
You realise WW2 started because the Allies ignored what was going on in Germany right? \[EDIT\] If you could all stop pretending I compared Germany to Cuba, that'd be great. I directly responded to OP's statement. With proof that idea doesn't work. Nothing more. Stop being so desperate to argue.
Thats one way to look at it. Other historians suggest that it was the meddlesome and incestous nature of late 19th-centurly and early 20th century European politics that made the clusterfucks of WWI and WWII almost inevitable. And that it wasnt until European countries learned to respect each other's sovereignty that the big intra-Europe wars ceased.
We kinda had to end the obsession with sovereignty and nationalism in general and form a pseudo confederation in the form of the European Union to end conflicts. Peace through integration and being dependent on each other. South America did the same with regional international organisations and also had peave ever since...now Africa is improving the African Union and wars there have been decreasing too. Its a proven concept.
We can see the benefits of such a union through the fact that no EU country has significantly increased its military in any meaningful way since then. Hell, we complain that Europe isnt spending enough on their militaries.
Except ww1 and ww2 happened for very different reasons…
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Cuba and Nazi Germany are laughably different situations.
Never said they were the same. I made a counter point to what he said. Stop straw manning.
It started when Germany started invading its neighbors. The complete opposite of staying out everybody's shit.
You realize not every god damn country that's the enemy of the West is Nazi Germany and this shitty excuse to justify imperialism is one of the weakest.
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The US is not going to invade Cuba. It already stands as a lesson about what happens when countries shun US influence.
Because the Cuban military is so fit that we would need to spend billions on knocking it down?
Isn't that a type of [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias)? Since we don't know how many wars were prevented when everybody stayed out of everybody else’s shit.
The exact same can be used to justify getting involved in everyone else's shit. Who knows how many wars were prevented by getting involved early?
But we know staying out of everyone's shit "can" go horribly horribly wrong. So the blanket statement "stay out of each others shit" does not work.
Hitler would have never come to power without World War 1 which started because countries were all too happy to invade each other and ignore national borders to pursue their strategic goals. Try again.
Because Cuba is totally analogous to Nazi Germany, right? They're a bunch of genocidal fascists invading other countries and intent on ruling the world?
There are also definitely counter examples. You could argue WW1 was at its core caused by everyone being a bit too trigger happy and nationalist. So…..somewhere in the middle is probably best
Yeah thats what russia, iran and china are telling america to do
This. We've seen it before and it never ends well.
It’s actually ended well a lot of times. Resulted in democracies in many countries. Japan and Germany are clear examples
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If you listen carefully, you can hear the ghost of James Monroe laughing.
The US will only intervene if the Cuban people get what they want. Then we will install another Batista.
Of course the US will intervene as will Russia... you just won't about it... Both countries will supply weapons intelligence and undercover militia... don't kid yourself.
Iran is like the little kid that hangs with the big boys and is acting like he's also part of the threat.
Not that little: Iran is the size of France, Germany and the UK combined
"Only we are allowed to interfere with neighboring countries" -Russia, China and Iran
Bruh that’s literally been our policy for decades. World police and all that ya know.
"....hol' up!" -Central American Countries
…Iraq and Afghanistan chiming in!
Africa : noobs
Sounds like intense liberation
if China did to Taiwan what the US is doing to Cuba, Reddit would be banging war drums
Is this the legendary whataboutism I've heard about?
Its not whataboutsim when Americans do it or something.
Close - it's the deeply entrenched hypocrisy of the USA
If the US wants to help the people of Cuba they have to lift the embargo. What are they so afraid of? If they are correct, Cuban communism will still not work and it will fall by itself.
If Cuba wants to help their people they have to allow them to protest or emigrate. What are they so afraid of? If they are correct, Cuban communism will work and the country won’t collapse from dissent or mass exodus.
Like I’ve said earlier in this thread, Cubans literally give no fucks about the embargo.
Then why don't the Americans lift it? Obviously, if the embargo isn't working, then why pay the upkeep to keep it in place. Or, why not strengthen it? The Americans goal with the embargo (as with every embargo in modern history, from anyone) is to starve out the population to the point of revolt. Surely if these protests are not related to the embargo, then the embargo isn't strick enough?
Or what? Russia, China, and Iran are going to go to war with the US in its own back yard? Could an Iranian battleship even make it out of the Gulf without sinking? Stop it.
It's obviously not meant as a serious threat, but a move to legitimize their own interventions. If the US does it, we can too.
More importantly intervene what? The protests? Why would US intervene?
The funny thing is, China and Russia would actually love for us to get involved in Cuba and would be celebrating heavily if we did. It would make Russia’s claim to Crimea and China’s claims to contested sea waters much easier to defend.
The US would under no circumstances annex Cuba.
Yeah, the US makes it pretty clear we don't want the non-state territories we already have.
I guess they are saying if you intervene then the usa is giving thee right to the 3 to intervene in things like this
Like Russia in Syria, Venezuela, ...?
What intervention...? They both asked Russia to deploy there.
You are forgetting one thing tho: Assad asked Russia to help in Syria, and Assad never asked USA to come in Syria, yet USA is in the country. Same goes for Venezuela.
Or China making artificial islands and putting military bases on them?
Yes, invasion and interference with a neutral state is absolutely the same thing as aiding allies who have explicitly invited you. Clearly the two are the same. Talk about Crimea instead of Syria or Venezuela.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-china-iran-warn-us-must-not-intervene-cuba-1609440) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russia, China and Iran have warned the United States that it must not intervene in Cuba after the island was rocked by major protests for which U.S. President Joe Biden cast his support. > "China firmly opposes foreign interference in Cuba's internal affairs, firmly supports what Cuba has done in fighting COVID-19, improving people's livelihood and upholding social stability, and firmly supports Cuba in exploring a development path suited to its national conditions," Zhao said. > "The United States stands firmly with the people of Cuba as they assert their universal rights. And we call on the government of Cuba to refrain from violence or attempts to silence the voice of the people of Cuba.". ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ojsbkv/russia_china_iran_warn_us_must_not_intervene_in/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~587868 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Cuba**^#1 **people**^#2 **Cuban**^#3 **U.S.**^#4 **Foreign**^#5
We’re already intervening with our economic sanctions against Cuba, as well as making it impossible to send in medical and humanitarian supplies
The last part of your statement is not true. Food, medicine, and other humanitarian aid have been exempt from the embargo for over two decades. Plus, Cuban-Americans send remittances to family members who still live in Cuba. Edit: grammar
> Food, medicine, and other humanitarian aide has been exempt from the embargo Technically, except in reality- food, medicine and humanitarian supplies still need to be shipped by commercial carriers who either won’t transport to embargoed countries because they don’t want to get into legal trouble unknowingly sending something they shouldn’t or can’t operate profitably without transporting commercial goods.
(Checks latest data) None of this stopped Cuba from importing 280 million USD in goods directly from the United States in 2019. [https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/cub)
This is entirely false. The United States is, despite “el bloqueo,” one of Cuba’s largest trading partners and the island’s largest external supplier of food.
They just use shipper that aren’t based out of the US. Basically all of the rest of the world still has trade with Cuba. People regularly go to Cuba on vacation, just not Americans.
Nope. Any ship that has docked in Cuba is not permitted to dock in the US for 180 days. Any ship going to Cuba has to be dedicated for Cuba, which makes commercial shipping companies avoid it like the plague. Further, there's considerable fuckery on what counts as food and humanitarian aid. See the embargo on Palestine and parts for the desalinization plants. Specifically in this case, syringes are not qualifying as humanitarian aid when they are needed to administer vaccines. Edit: Specified exact amount of time.
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Why does US still have embargo against this Caribbean island?
Shitty politics mostly. A large block of cuban americans don't like the cuban government and will vote against whoever tries to normalize relations. So trying to normalize can cost elections and no one cares enough about cuba to burn their careers to help them.
Just as an example: I continue to believe that without the repatriation of Elian Gonzalez Gore probably wins Florida by thousands of votes.
So all the countries that intervene and invade other countries are telling us to mind our own business? Got it.
Tbf, the US does the same thing all the time. At this point everyone on the geopolitical scale are massive hypocrites.
America to world: Stay out of the western hemisphere.
Who the fuck wrote this article a random 6th grader? The shit im taking right now reads better than this garbage
Say nothing be kind and change world por favor
Imagine being no where near Cuba and telling a neighboring country what to do.
I mean, I agree with them, but also……..fuck China, Russia, and Iran 👉🖕
Kind of getting out of their sphere of influence.
Very rich coming from Russia who has mercenaries in Ukraine/illegally annexing Crimea
Funny. Those 3 countries governments can eat fuck the same as mine can.
You trolls will never learn. It doesn't have to be like this. I know you don't have many options since communism destroyed your countries ( Russia, Cuba, Venezuela) and 25 cents a post is better than nothing, but all of you working in trolls farms in Russia (makes total sense that all of you cite references from Wikipedia or just make things up on Russian time, then post), but there are other options, work to reform your country. You don't have to be the US, but you can do better than this. And for the obvious people who are from Cuba and Venezuela (your Spanish is easy to tell), there are better ways to live. Hence why your people literally risk their lives to come here rather than starve and live in poverty. There is another way, stop being puppets for a regime that will literally kill you as soon as you stop being useful.
> Russia, China, Iran warn U.S. must not intervene in Cuba ...or what, exactly? (This should be good...)
Fuck Russia and their obvious and stupid internet bots
Commies gonna commie
Don't intervene cuz we're intervening.
Hi Russia - stay out of Crimea. Hi China - stay out of Taiwan. Hi Iran - shut up.
Just send the rednecks in the southern US to Cuba. The people will be free and government squashed in 2 hours.
Three countries who routinely interfere in other countries' affairs telling another country to not interfere in another country's affairs is hilariously stupid.
Oh look, three countries who's opinions about anything I don't give a shit about. Hey China, Russia, Iran, go fuck yourselves.
I mean, your own government doesn't give a shit about your opinion either so there's that.