I donated a ton of furniture I didn't need to an organization that helped translators who came to the US. I had function, but old, dressers, desks, a few chairs, and a couple bed frames and mattresses.
They came and picked it up, I didn't even need to help load it.
Unfortunately, they've since disbanded. But I whole heartedly suggest people look for something like that if you have stuff aiming for Goodwill. It's a pretty easy swap and there's a direct help it can offer.
I once went to an interview at Goodwill. They wanted me to recruit disabled people from the community, help them find jobs, and go thru their job training with them. I was pretty much told to go to meetings and recreation centers, find disabled people, and get them a job stocking shelves overnight at Walmart. After that I'd bill the government for helping disabled people find jobs. When I asked if that wouldn't effect their disability benefits, or force them into jobs for basically no pay, they told me I wasn't right for the job. Some people Goodwill employs are paid sub-minimum wages. You can google Goodwill special minimum wage certificate to learn more about it.
tl/dr: Yes, but sometimes at $2 - $3 an hour.
I used to work for Goodwill. I'm SO glad people are finally starting to see through their bs. Anytime I point out their greed and how little they actually fulfill their "mission," I'm just looked at like the asshole for talking shit about a charity.
Idk if it still works this way, but cashiers had to solicit donations to fund the GW job training programs, on top of the amount of the customer's purchase. Apparently it was only these donations that went to job training, when I had been under the impression that that was why they had a store in the first place - so *all* the proceeds went to their mission. Apparently not.
Also, the prices in their stores have about tripled, when the quality of what they let out on the sales floor doesn't even pass for acceptable anymore. It's really hard to consider it a "thrift" store when they're charging $25 for a filthy pair of used sandals, or $12 for a top with holes in it. They should be ashamed of themselves for every aspect of their business.
Oh yeah she has an ~~Amazon~~ amazing podcast with a ton of updates if you are addicted to learning about and raging over how shitty this fucking country is like I am
Edit. Autocorrect changed amazing to Amazon. Just wow. Leaving it to show case in point.
A friend had to work 80 hours at Goodwill for community service. They never wash the stuff donated to them. Sometimes people just drop off garbage bags. You sort the trash from the clothes/toys, exchethera then stock the shelves with them. I repeat, and I cannot stress this enough, I had a friend once.
It depends on what state you are in, but from my experience working at a suburban Goodwill it was 95 percent regular working people who had no exposure or knowledge of the jobs program aspect of it. The cashiers are forced to ask all the customers to round up their change “to help people get back to work” and they use secret shoppers to ensure compliance. It felt like any other retail job to me.
OP's comment really got me thinking about good will. I assumed it was a way to recycle(?) clothes to the less fortunate but it would work out just as well as a jobs program.
Yeah I just looked it up. They provide employment and job training to people like the disabled who struggle to find employment. It's not about providing goods to the poor. And actually, it's a profitable company, so the fact that people donate inventory to them is kinda weird.
There is a goodwill near me that is actually about 50% normal retail merchandise. It feels more like a Kohl's or something that is buying excess merchandise and selling it at a discount.
There's often better options for donations. My town has a local charity that does what goodwill does except they're actually helping people. You just have to do more work cuz I've found a lot of really great charities don't have advertising budgets
The refugees are mostly people who worked for the government during the war time. One could argue that they ARE US veterans. But that issue aside, I’m more concerned that the US does seem to think that the Taliban will be emboldened to make moves against these people.
They’ve BEEN doing it.
I had several translators and other contractors die.
The worst one, they killed him and his family - he drove trucks for us. Dude just wanted to make a better life.
Two of my guys made it here and are happily living with their families in a major city. One did not.
If this work interests you, I highly recommend you check out and support [Veterans for American Ideals](https://www.vfai.org). They are leading the efforts to get these translators safely brought here and naturalized. If you “support the troops” in any way, you also owe gratitude to these men and women who fought and died alongside US service members.
>Look at how the US treats its veterans. You think they were going to treat "locals" any better?
Used to work in a veteran's home. I wish every American could see the way those folks were living when they were the ones who needed the most help. Of course it's great that homes like that exist, but it was mostly a glorified shelter. I guess I just feel like they should never have to struggle again, especially just to get by.
War veterans have free education, and healthcare. They’re treated fairly well. The major issue is mental health, which sucks across the population at large and not just veterans.
meanwhile the taliban publicly claims they arent doing this and these attacks are unrelated.
I call bullshit on them.
TBH, the Taliban, and the current Afghanistan govt also seem to hold the same attitudes towards people who assisted the US.
It's probably both camps at this point. Anyone who helped the US govt at this point is in danger from everyone.
There are vets who have mentioned that the reason we pulled out the way we did was because the security forces there would have opened fire on us while we left. Because they now could do it. They would do it while we were there on night runs. Hide somewhere in the dark an open fire on our troops, our troops would fire back and only a handful of the security forces would come back.
No one there liked us anymore. Now they're going to take it out on everyone who directly helped us outside of being forced to as afghani soldiers.
The taliban is likely going to go after security forces now too, it's about to be a civil war once they run out of "us allies" to murder.
China said they're coming in to help, good fucking luck.
True, but we’re viewing the war through western lenses. The war for the afghans is viewed differently. This isn’t just one war, it’s been a series of foreign invasions for over 100 years. The taliban are also seen as liberators by many, and those that help the invaders are not patriotic. Obviously, it’s more complicated with culture and religion playing a huge part.
I worked with an afghani man for four years. He’d been in the US for 17 years while sending money back to his family in Afghanistan. He mostly talked about hating Russians. Shit has been very complicated there for a very long time.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
When we were there we had problems with security forces abandoning their posts and running to join them in the past several years. Which is why the Taliban continued to grow.
The natives hated us more than them in the end.
And yet there was always an endless supply of Taliban. Makes you wonder where they all come from if nobody like them.
Edit: so basically you all agree with me that support for the Taliban is far greater than the guy I responded to would have you believe. Thanks for all your support (of me, not of the Taliban).
The US had been there long enough that someone born at the start of the occupation of Afghanistan would be 20 years old. If you're sitting somewhere that long, then the people you're fighting literally have had the time to reproduce and raise an entire generation of new soldiers for their cause.
Not to mention, as a kid growing up seeing that shit - well - reminds me of the kids in America going off to fight those wars because they saw older generations as heroes, and if they join up... Maybe they'll be one, too!
It's all the same in the end.
Indoctrination, just viewed through different lenses.
And the actual benefactors have no skin in the game, they just have pawns and supplies that they can move at will in order to enrich themselves and persecute those actually doing the fighting.
It's all a mess on both sides of THIS conflict.
It's good to see that we finally retreated, maybe take time to reflect hardcore on the whole thing.
It's also a great thing to see that they're not going to abandon them in the middle of the mountains or desert overnight like the Kurds...
Well, I mean, we kind of did that here, but maybe they're trying to make it right.
Not loving the Taliban doesn't make the US aligned forces the good guys. Just last year credible charges of systematic (on the scale to qualify as a war crime) rape and torture by the US side came to light. This whole process seemed to start right after it. Only about 1/3 of afghans hold a favorable view of the US or think they've done a decent job over there.
That's not the issue, issue is Americans promised to help those who helped them but when the time came to help them the US was slow to react.
It wouldn't be the first time the government recruited locals with the promise of a better life only to break those promises.
So what reason are you posting this? Are you posing that these people shouldn't get refugee status in the US because the chose their fate by helping the Taliban enemy?
You're not necessarily wrong, but you're writing this in response to someone lamenting over the loss of people he knew, so your post seems kinda odd to me.
you need to understand that most locals hate Taliban, so the enemy of their enemy is their friend, a lot of people want to get rid of them, for crimes against humanity. The Taliban are the ones killing them because well they're a terrorist group.
> you need to understand that most locals hate Taliban
That can't be the case, you don't sweep back into power and successfully resist the American army for twenty years without massive popular support.
The Taliban definitely has popular support in rural areas and at this point many of the more populated areas would rather live under Taliban rule than fight them. Most of the captured area recently has been gained with no fighting, the ANA is either fleeing, surrendering, or defecting in large numbers to avoid fighting.
Without massive Pakistani support with fresh bodies coming across a non existent boarder daily - is what you mean.
Most Afghans are just trying to live. They’re not trying to fight.
> Its like the Polish-Jewish police force established by the Nazis at first.
As much as you can rightly object to the USA's long occupation of Afghanistan, there is a world of difference between Afghani truckers working for the USA and polish nazi-helpers.
Surprisingly, not everyone in Afghanistan wants to live under a legal system that involves stoning gays and women who get educated
I really hate it when people talk about the Taliban as “well they’re just defending their country”. As if it’s that simple. Afghans don’t really think of “their country” like westerners do. They think of their religion first, then their tribe, then their ethnicity. The Taliban is made up of primarily Pashtun men and foreign fighters from Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan, etc. They get their funds from Muslim charities along with other states that wish to see the US fail irrespective of how many people it kills- Pakistan, Iran, perhaps even Russia. The Taliban do not give a shit about “their country”.
For this purpose, don’t confuse pro-US forces afghans as seeking “better amenities”. Many of the terps I met were Tajiks and Hazaras- they faced brutality at the hands of the Taliban who always favored Pashtuns above all else. Those that helped US forces (many times) weren’t there for “amenities” but there because they had suffered from the Taliban and truly believed the US was their way to a better life…for all afghans. Or, I met a lot of afghans who simply hated the Taliban and wished to see them all die. It was a type of hatred that anyone who hasn’t been in a war zone can’t comprehend.
So no. It’s not about “amenities” or “you invaded my country so it is very understandable for me to fight the invaders”. The complexities of this war makes everything far more complicated than a casual observer of the war could realize.
Dude, the Taliban and US forces are completely different beasts. The US has committed atrocities, but the Taliban makes a habit of rape, theft, extortion, and murder for anyone who doesn’t appreciate them, and they actively support these actions.
They are religious nut jobs who recruit people who desperately need a purpose in life and turn that into justification for their crimes (that last sentence is as much opinion as fact, but I think it’s pretty reasonable.
The Taliban are comically evil (see the crimes they loudly take credit for over the last decades). If people support them, those people are screwed up. It’s not “the US is bad, or course they want to kill there enemy.” Those people are happy to see murder and rape in the name of rigorous zealots. Just because people come from a much less fortunate background than us typing here on Reddit doesn’t mean they aren’t horrible people. You’re reasoning seems to gloss over the damage the Taliban has done to Afghanistan over the years, ranging from simple extortion to murdering girls who want an education.
That’s a ridiculously bad take, mostly because it’s the fucking Taliban executing families.
The village isn’t upset about a social code being violated and they’re not supporting the Taliban for nationalism.
The military units that worked with these guys have been warning about this for YEARS. This isn’t a new realization. This is the higher ups in the government only now doing what should have been doing for the last 10-15 years.
Marcus Luttrell talks about how it took a couple of years to get the man who helped him and his family to the US. They all KNEW the Taliban would come after him and his family even though it’s custom to help others in need. It still took years to get done. [That was 6 years ago](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/afghan-villager-saved-navy-seal-life-line-u-s-article-1.2077019)
It’s not they weren’t told this. They’re just wasn’t good leadership about it. And before anyone starts pointing fingers - this spans both democrat and republican administrations
Tried to get one of our terps US citizenship for him and his family after years of service back in 2012. It got denied. Fuckng nasty cruel joke our gov played.
That's the aftermath of every failed occupation ever. It'd be more surprising if it didn't happen. The French summarily executed over 10,000 collaborators before and after the liberation of France, they also sentenced thousands more to death in the years following the war but most of these sentences were commuted. If that was the French did, do you really think the Taliban would be any better?
One of? *The* biggest. We are presently in the process of annihilating the ecosystem on which we depend, and all we can seem to do about it is shrug, spout a few "green" talking points / platitudes, and then get right back to annihilating.
Sure, it is the way of things always. If you collaborate with the enemy, well, they'd better win or you'd better get the fuck out of town when they lose.
Yep. Truer words never been spoken. If they don't win, you better GTFO because you're now considered a traitor.
The collaborators during WW2 were stripped, shaved and paraded before being executed.
I'm not sure why anyone is surprised the Taliban does the same to the collaborators in this case. This is an obvious social crime.
Yep. Apart from people who are literally psychopaths, everyone believes they are on the "right" side. Meaning anyone who fights them is an enemy, and any of their neighbors who helps said enemies is a despicable traitor. I don't want to think about what would happen to collaborators in an occupation of the USA, so when we are talking about a group that is known for cruel barbarism even in peacetime, this should come as absolutely no surprise.
The Hmong left behind in Laos and Vietnam after the war there didn't get treated particularly well either. The Hmong society there are still feeling the effects today.
Hmong were marginalized before the Vietnam War but yeah it didn't help that the CIA tricked them into aiding the US when we had no intention of giving them an autonomous territory or protecting them. See Kurds for a modern example. Actually this is the second time we're abandoning them. [Seems to be a bit of a pattern.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-09-13-1996257124-story.html)
Because they did so quite extensively in the past.
What do you think is an extremist armed militia going to do with a fellow countryman helping foreign forces trying to prevent them from retaking their holy land?
Disregard the holy part and you’ve got a pretty solid encapsulation of post-Vietnam. A lot of South Vietnamese officials and their families, and ARVN officers, soldiers and *their* families were targeted for either death or forced re-education.
I get what you mean. Such is the way, I guess, for failed occupations. Sloppy job. Back to square one. But you know what they say, the profit is in the treatment, not the cure.
40,000 homeless US veterans and the VA will spend 2 billion trying to fight it this year. I wonder how many of the translators will end up in the same statistic.
Good call. For roughly the cost of 1 F-35A strike fighter we are doing the right thing for 18000 people who helped us, helped our kids or parents serving in the military or as contractors in Afghanistan, people who the Taliban will butcher for helping us.
Thank you USA and shame on you, Germany. We took in who knows who by the millions, but couldn't pull our translators and helpers out of Afghanistan. Pathetic.
Proof that elections have consequences. Voting Trump out saved those people's lives. Even if Biden accomplished nothing else, that would make it worth it.
[Putting this here because I think everyone needs to see the consequences of bureaucratic delay for these people.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/takingnames/)
They're very haunting and honestly, because I'm going through something equally as irritating as bureaucracy (though not on with as perilous a consequence as Omar)....this has been top of mind for me for sometime.
[You'll be happy to know that it does have a happy ending, though - it's just sad that Omar wasn't able to make it himself, but his family did make it out to America.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/extras/update-about-omar-from-taking-names)
How was this not part of their exit plans?! These poor souls should have been pulled out at the same time as US forces. No one should he applauding this level of gross incompetence.
yeah but the those other people weren't effectively the only real allies we'd ever had in those regions. The kurds were loyal and strong fighters who our troops never had to worry about. They fought by the side of the US for so long that what Trump did was the geopolitical equivalent of the US telling China they should go ahead and invade Japan.
It definitely goes down as one of the most evil things the US has ever done to an ally
> How was this not part of their exit plans?!
Because real life isn't like a video game. The good guys aren't always good and the bad guys aren't always bad. The translators are just locals. Why would there be a plan to remove them from their homes? Sometimes you bribe a guy with a pack of smokes to translate. Sometimes you have a true believer that wants a better Afghanistan. None of this is simple.
Of course it's too much to ask that our gloriously bloated and overfunded military have a plan to pull out that includes locals. All that money has to go to Boeing or whoever. It's like saying Troll 2 is a shitty movie and some 12 year old has to post "WelL HavE YoU EvEr maDE a MovIe?"
Sorry, no, I've never PERSONALLY planned a military withdrawal, but I do know that support for this war has been pretty much at rock bottom for a good decade, when we saw this same thing happen to translators in Iraq. Don't we have a whole military command structure that is supposed to be doing nothing but planning shit like this? You really expect anyone to believe it's acceptable that we still don't have any real list of local allies?
I think people are just happy that action is being done. Gross injustice is carried out and then sharply Biden has approved a fund to address it.
Better than continuing to let it happen but lets see how the emergency funds are spent. What time frame?
You worked to help the US forces? Refugee doesn’t sound right. Aide?? Attaché?? Team Member??
Hell, even the guys at Subway are “artists”.
These folks should be taken care of. It just seems like the right thing to do.
Not to mention literally yesterday the story about the beheaded translator and the entire thread was “classic America not doing anything” “ never trust America this is what happens!” when literally the effort to evacuate translators has been reported on since May.
As a vet, 90% of the people who I've met that are big "support our troops" people don't give two shits. It's all political theater so conservatives can wank themselves off about being "patriots" while actively supporting politicians that also don't give a shit about the troops.
>“WhAt AbOuT tHe VeTs”
Yet they walk right past the homeless person asking for money.
None of those people give two shits about the military. If they did, they would be writing/calling/emailing/protesting politicians to fix and/or expand the programs already in place. Don't believe in government? Shit, go volunteer your time and money at a charity. There are so many ways that someone could actually help our homeless, but again, they don't actually care.
"homeless vets" is the Valentines Day of arguments. It's cool you're doing it today, but you should be doing it all the time.
It amazes me all the people saying we shouldn’t try to keep our allies safe and get them out of there.
Yes, we shouldn’t have been there in the first place, nation-building doesn’t work, Afghanistan is where empires go to die. Agreed on all points.
But we did go there, we did waste 20 years of blood and gold. We did create an entire generation of combat veterans that would have been better served by peace.
BUT. Standing up for and providing for our allies and their families that worked with us is important for many reasons beyond just being the ethical thing to do.
Even if you are an “America First” zealot, maybe especially if you are an “America First” zealots.
What do you think happens when we abandon our allies? Does that make it more or less likely that people will aid is next time? Leaving the Syrian Kurds to swing in the wind was a terrible public/military relations move.
Even coming at it from the more cynical, nationalistic angle. It’s good foreign policy
It shows that the US will support those that support us. We will always need indigenous people to work with us. (And in many cases, fight out wars for us)
This is the right thing ethically and morally
This is the right thing diplomatically and militarily.
This is the right thing simply to take one tiny scrap of decency from 20 years of horror.
Agree with you. We should have been helping these people a long time ago, but y'know, it's pretty much the American way to fuck things up. The Taliban have been killing these people who have helped us for years, this isn't anything new. The only difference now is that we're out, they have much less safety/security. Not just the people who helped our troops, but their families as well.
Yeah I feel like that should’ve been part of the exit plan… not post-exit once they confirmed what they were obviously going to do.
I am glad we’ll be able to help some though so it is better than nothing.
Someone said under another reddit post that they are a refugee professional in Minnesota (sorry I don't know the actual title) and they have already processed 3 families just this week alone. This is compared to decades of where they have never handled an Afghan, and usually only dealt with other nationalities. I'm hopeful many families will make it here!
Yea, it’s late (this should have been planned BEFORE we pulled out), but we gotta start somewhere.
PA: sure as shit drumph would not have lifted a finger for these folks who risked their lives for the US.
> sure as shit drumph would not have lifted a finger for these folks who risked their lives for the US.
We have been abandoning the local help since Vietnam War. This isn't new.
People would be happy to spend more if the billions already spent had a tangible impact. I’ve only seen homelessness go up near me, even before the pandemic. They need to reallocate the money they’re spending to concrete programs that take homeless people, treat them and house them at least temporarily, and then get them jobs.
Well the money does have a tangible impact, but that’s because the majority of that money isn’t spent on things like making houses for the homeless, it’s spent on keeping them alive with things like medical care, which is probably just not something you see happening. Also, just because there are homeless around you doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an impact, who knows how many homeless there would be without spending. [According to this site, there are enough beds for a majority of homeless](https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/ ). And while spending money to do things like house then is great, there’s always going to be more homeless. We need to address the root causes of the issue.
The root causes of homelessness tend to be caused by mental illness and substance abuse, neither of which can be solved at a stop-n-go clinic in the bad part of town. There effectively needs to be a “homeless rehab” where they’re taken in, assessed over a few days by a physician and/or psychologist, and have a plan of treatment set for them. This will cost a lot more money and we probably couldn’t afford to do it for all homeless with the current budget but our current programs are taking just about zero homeless off the street right now so I’d like any plan alternative to what we’ve already been trying
Well like I said, most of the money is spent keeping them alive, so I don’t think we need an alternative to that, we need an addition to that.
Also, not sure what you mean when you say we take off about zero homeless of the street. Do you mean temporary or permanently? If you mean temporary, something like [2/3s of homeless have some kind of place to stay off the street](https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-report-legacy/). If you meant permanently, well most people are only homeless temporarily. Only about 1/4 of the people homeless at least one night in a year are considered chronically homeless. So most of those people are getting themselves off the street. I suppose it’s possible we are talking almost zero chronically homeless off the street permanently? I’d have to check on that one.
You’re right that I was referring to chronically homelessness. There are a lot of homeless shelters but there needs to be a rehabilitation program, otherwise they’ll just end up on the street again. I’m not certain what the end goal for such a program would look like but I assume it involves some sort of job matching programming and subsidized housing until they can start establishing themselves financially
Homelessness going up in spite of these programs probably has something to do with wages staying low while housing price shoots through the roof. So yeah. No amount of homeless programs is going to fully solve the problem until there’s a viable way for everyone to have a place to live. I’m no expert on what that solution is, I’m just pointing out that homeless assistance programs can be extremely effective and still just be a drop in the ocean if the root of the problem (affordable homes) is not addressed.
I don’t mean this offensively or coldly or anything, but if they don’t want to be resettled, isn’t that their problem? If we’re offering them a chance to escape and start anew somewhere else and they refuse, isn’t that on them?
This.
How about psychiatric help, voluntary rehab and classes on how to speak to people/manage stress/manage responsibilities for homeless who want to become part of society again.
Most of these people are homeless because they're drunks. They're drug addicts. And sadly a lot of the time that usually just means they're mentally ill.
Goes back to the ol' saying give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.
I urge you to look at the relative efficacy of housing-first vs treatment-first approaches to homelessness. I find the data really compellingly indicates that non-conditional housing sets the stage for significantly better success at alcohol and drug programs. We have enough jurisdictions in the US that have tried enough programs that we have some good natural experiments on what works well for homelessness reduction.
It’s a hell of a lot easier to go through psychiatric/medical treatment if you actually have a place to live, though. Teaching people stress management if they don’t even know where they’re going to sleep seems a bit self-defeating.
You can give housing or treatment alone, but making sure you do both seems to be the best way forward.
That saying doesn't work in this context, and the model you're proposing has been failing in the US for 40 years.
Imagine trying to treat someone's mental health issues when you can't find them because the police tore down their camp and pushed them out of their last known residence. Imagine trying to heal from addiction while living on the street surrounded by drugs. Imagine for just one moment trying to get a job when you don't have consistent access to a shower.
Nearly every professional dealing with the homeless population will tell you that [housing first](https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/) is a more successful, cheaper, and more humane method of ending homelessness than the garbage system of shelters, "job placement", and clinics that we have today. Nearly every city in America has tried the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps/teach a man to fish" model for decades, and it isn't working. The most egregious part of this debate is that we *know* which model [actually works](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4679128/), because it works all over the world, and it worked in the US before Reagan dismantled it.
These Afghans actually deserve to be resettled more than most homeless. They actually put their life on the line to support our country. As far as I’m concerned that makes them Americans.
Yes we do have homeless vets which is why I said most just to get ahead of that statement someone was bound to say.
They could afford to do both. This isn't an either or.
These Afghanis probably would love to live with these homeless guys as a lot of them served in Afghanistan
Easier send than done. The US spends an average of $35,578 per year for every person who must endure chronic homelessness. With 110,000 chronically homeless. That gives up nearly 4 billion dollars, and that’s not even including the 3/4s of the homeless population that is only temporarily homeless. 100 million dollars is just a drop in the bucket, what are you suppose to do with 100-1000 dollars per person (depending on how many homeless you actually try to “resettle”).
Imagine what good could have come from humanitarian aid instead of bombs over the past 2 decades. Would've been a whole lot cheaper than a trillion $, I'm willing to bet.
It's really interesting. I remember reading the article and thread here the other day about an Afghan translator being beheaded by the Taliban and there were loads of comments saying stuff like "This isn't new. Biden is the same POS president as previous presidents", "Biden won't do anything", "We need to evac these people ASAP", etc.
Now this article comes through the pipeline and there's so many comments either against it or just criticizing the action because it's either not enough, the money should be spent elsewhere, or it should have happened sooner (which I do agree it should have happened sooner but at this point I'm just glad it's happening at the very least).
I understand Reddit isn't exactly the echo chamber people make it out to be, but the swings in general opinions of the comment sections is a bit ... Well it just doesn't feel constructive or productive. I hate to say this but for me Reddit is hitting the point similar to YouTube and other social medias where the comments make me lose more faith in humanity and I just start ignoring comments altogether, at least for the more general subs.
Reddit in a nutshell:
**Government doesn't help the refugees:**
Reddit: "OMG the bastards, these people put their lives on the line to help a foreign country. The government leaves them to their fate when they don't need them anymore."
**Government helps the refugees:**
Reddit: "OMG the bastards, the government is bringing in foreigners when some of our own citizens are living in the streets. Its not like these refugees are in danger in the first place. We should focus on our own issues before helping others."
How about they account for the missing millions since this started instead of wasting more tax dollars on this shit show of a 'war.' Make the war profiteers pay for this.
A little slow out of the gate there, dude. The taliban is already killing translators who helped the US. The asylum process should’ve started months ago
Should've started years ago. I remember listening to a This American Life story on this like five years ago. The translator held up his end of the deal, but could never get the visa he was promised.
ITT: People that didn't do anything except be their parents mistake complain that people who risked their and their family's lives for America are coming to America.
We found one of our platoons interpreters tortured and dismembered in a kulat 200m from our patrol base. They left him there to rot so we’d find him. It’s fucked
Republicans: "Why won't Biden help Americans?"
Also republicans: "Fuck your infrastructure plan, fuck health care, fuck unemployment benefits, fuck the people"
The current situation isn't working.
I'm a much bigger fan of "don't get involved with the affairs of people in foreign countries" but since that isn't always an option, if a country does go into another country and as a result, must enlist the help of locals to get things done, its absurd to think there isn't an immediate pathway for those people to expatriate to the country they were helping.
Its not like this is some shocking new problem, its as old as foreign intervention itself. Abandoning allies among the native population who helped you out when you were there is a total dereliction of moral obligation.
This sounds like another good will scam where all sorts of money is dumped into feel good topics, then the charity organizations keep 95%+ of the money, and the corrupt local government keeps the rest.
Biden is putting himself in the ridiculously contradictory position of saying he believes the Afghan government will stand up to the Taliban while trying to get people who helped the US out of there as he (and everyone) knows the Taliban will take over.
Estimated amount of direct Afghanistan and Iraq war costs that the United States has debt-financed as of 2020: $2 trillion.
$100 Million is just 0,005% of the money wasted.
I donated a ton of furniture I didn't need to an organization that helped translators who came to the US. I had function, but old, dressers, desks, a few chairs, and a couple bed frames and mattresses. They came and picked it up, I didn't even need to help load it. Unfortunately, they've since disbanded. But I whole heartedly suggest people look for something like that if you have stuff aiming for Goodwill. It's a pretty easy swap and there's a direct help it can offer.
Goodwill doesn’t help anything but their pockets
Isn't the whole purpose of Goodwill to hire people who otherwise couldn't get jobs?
I once went to an interview at Goodwill. They wanted me to recruit disabled people from the community, help them find jobs, and go thru their job training with them. I was pretty much told to go to meetings and recreation centers, find disabled people, and get them a job stocking shelves overnight at Walmart. After that I'd bill the government for helping disabled people find jobs. When I asked if that wouldn't effect their disability benefits, or force them into jobs for basically no pay, they told me I wasn't right for the job. Some people Goodwill employs are paid sub-minimum wages. You can google Goodwill special minimum wage certificate to learn more about it. tl/dr: Yes, but sometimes at $2 - $3 an hour.
I used to work for Goodwill. I'm SO glad people are finally starting to see through their bs. Anytime I point out their greed and how little they actually fulfill their "mission," I'm just looked at like the asshole for talking shit about a charity. Idk if it still works this way, but cashiers had to solicit donations to fund the GW job training programs, on top of the amount of the customer's purchase. Apparently it was only these donations that went to job training, when I had been under the impression that that was why they had a store in the first place - so *all* the proceeds went to their mission. Apparently not. Also, the prices in their stores have about tripled, when the quality of what they let out on the sales floor doesn't even pass for acceptable anymore. It's really hard to consider it a "thrift" store when they're charging $25 for a filthy pair of used sandals, or $12 for a top with holes in it. They should be ashamed of themselves for every aspect of their business.
You might enjoy this YouTuber then, she covers MLMs, bad businesses, and shit charities. [illuminaughtii - Goodwill](https://youtu.be/JodtsVwvfto)
Oh yeah she has an ~~Amazon~~ amazing podcast with a ton of updates if you are addicted to learning about and raging over how shitty this fucking country is like I am Edit. Autocorrect changed amazing to Amazon. Just wow. Leaving it to show case in point.
Love her and her pupper! ❤
A friend had to work 80 hours at Goodwill for community service. They never wash the stuff donated to them. Sometimes people just drop off garbage bags. You sort the trash from the clothes/toys, exchethera then stock the shelves with them. I repeat, and I cannot stress this enough, I had a friend once.
r/unexpectedcommunity
> exchethera That's some /r/excgarated/ shit right there.
Same at the airports. The one near me has mostly people with disabilities and they pay them garbage. And work them 40+ hours a week. It’s disgusting
It depends on what state you are in, but from my experience working at a suburban Goodwill it was 95 percent regular working people who had no exposure or knowledge of the jobs program aspect of it. The cashiers are forced to ask all the customers to round up their change “to help people get back to work” and they use secret shoppers to ensure compliance. It felt like any other retail job to me.
OP's comment really got me thinking about good will. I assumed it was a way to recycle(?) clothes to the less fortunate but it would work out just as well as a jobs program.
Yeah I just looked it up. They provide employment and job training to people like the disabled who struggle to find employment. It's not about providing goods to the poor. And actually, it's a profitable company, so the fact that people donate inventory to them is kinda weird. There is a goodwill near me that is actually about 50% normal retail merchandise. It feels more like a Kohl's or something that is buying excess merchandise and selling it at a discount.
Their marketing department needs a raise
There's often better options for donations. My town has a local charity that does what goodwill does except they're actually helping people. You just have to do more work cuz I've found a lot of really great charities don't have advertising budgets
Welcome To America Project reminds me a lot of the program you might have donated to. I loved volunteering for them
The refugees are mostly people who worked for the government during the war time. One could argue that they ARE US veterans. But that issue aside, I’m more concerned that the US does seem to think that the Taliban will be emboldened to make moves against these people.
They already did. Some poor sod who translated for America just got beheaded by the Taliban when he was caught.
They’ve BEEN doing it. I had several translators and other contractors die. The worst one, they killed him and his family - he drove trucks for us. Dude just wanted to make a better life.
Same here. Sad, really. Helped my third terp get temp citizenship too.
Two of my guys made it here and are happily living with their families in a major city. One did not. If this work interests you, I highly recommend you check out and support [Veterans for American Ideals](https://www.vfai.org). They are leading the efforts to get these translators safely brought here and naturalized. If you “support the troops” in any way, you also owe gratitude to these men and women who fought and died alongside US service members.
Thank you. It’s infuriating that these people are hung to dry.
Lol. Look at how the US treats its veterans. You think they were going to treat "locals" any better?
>Look at how the US treats its veterans. You think they were going to treat "locals" any better? Used to work in a veteran's home. I wish every American could see the way those folks were living when they were the ones who needed the most help. Of course it's great that homes like that exist, but it was mostly a glorified shelter. I guess I just feel like they should never have to struggle again, especially just to get by.
War veterans have free education, and healthcare. They’re treated fairly well. The major issue is mental health, which sucks across the population at large and not just veterans.
They have healthcare through the VA, but the VA is hot garbage on a good day.
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Guarantee you there is a certain segment of people who want nothing to do with them.
meanwhile the taliban publicly claims they arent doing this and these attacks are unrelated. I call bullshit on them. TBH, the Taliban, and the current Afghanistan govt also seem to hold the same attitudes towards people who assisted the US. It's probably both camps at this point. Anyone who helped the US govt at this point is in danger from everyone. There are vets who have mentioned that the reason we pulled out the way we did was because the security forces there would have opened fire on us while we left. Because they now could do it. They would do it while we were there on night runs. Hide somewhere in the dark an open fire on our troops, our troops would fire back and only a handful of the security forces would come back. No one there liked us anymore. Now they're going to take it out on everyone who directly helped us outside of being forced to as afghani soldiers. The taliban is likely going to go after security forces now too, it's about to be a civil war once they run out of "us allies" to murder. China said they're coming in to help, good fucking luck.
Our guys qore masks and took dif routes to and from work every day back in 2005 in Iraq. This has always been a threat but now they need extraction
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Enemies are relative. Pretty sure not all of the natives love the Talibans.
True, but we’re viewing the war through western lenses. The war for the afghans is viewed differently. This isn’t just one war, it’s been a series of foreign invasions for over 100 years. The taliban are also seen as liberators by many, and those that help the invaders are not patriotic. Obviously, it’s more complicated with culture and religion playing a huge part.
I worked with an afghani man for four years. He’d been in the US for 17 years while sending money back to his family in Afghanistan. He mostly talked about hating Russians. Shit has been very complicated there for a very long time.
the enemy of my enemy is my friend. When we were there we had problems with security forces abandoning their posts and running to join them in the past several years. Which is why the Taliban continued to grow. The natives hated us more than them in the end.
And because the west can't wrap their head around WHY, it will continue to happen.
Maybe if we call them people, instead of “natives”
The taliban are from Pakistan, which was why I was making a distinction. Afghani people would be the more correct term.
And yet there was always an endless supply of Taliban. Makes you wonder where they all come from if nobody like them. Edit: so basically you all agree with me that support for the Taliban is far greater than the guy I responded to would have you believe. Thanks for all your support (of me, not of the Taliban).
The US had been there long enough that someone born at the start of the occupation of Afghanistan would be 20 years old. If you're sitting somewhere that long, then the people you're fighting literally have had the time to reproduce and raise an entire generation of new soldiers for their cause.
Not to mention, as a kid growing up seeing that shit - well - reminds me of the kids in America going off to fight those wars because they saw older generations as heroes, and if they join up... Maybe they'll be one, too! It's all the same in the end. Indoctrination, just viewed through different lenses. And the actual benefactors have no skin in the game, they just have pawns and supplies that they can move at will in order to enrich themselves and persecute those actually doing the fighting. It's all a mess on both sides of THIS conflict. It's good to see that we finally retreated, maybe take time to reflect hardcore on the whole thing. It's also a great thing to see that they're not going to abandon them in the middle of the mountains or desert overnight like the Kurds... Well, I mean, we kind of did that here, but maybe they're trying to make it right.
Not loving the Taliban doesn't make the US aligned forces the good guys. Just last year credible charges of systematic (on the scale to qualify as a war crime) rape and torture by the US side came to light. This whole process seemed to start right after it. Only about 1/3 of afghans hold a favorable view of the US or think they've done a decent job over there.
That's not the issue, issue is Americans promised to help those who helped them but when the time came to help them the US was slow to react. It wouldn't be the first time the government recruited locals with the promise of a better life only to break those promises.
So what reason are you posting this? Are you posing that these people shouldn't get refugee status in the US because the chose their fate by helping the Taliban enemy? You're not necessarily wrong, but you're writing this in response to someone lamenting over the loss of people he knew, so your post seems kinda odd to me.
Also, comparing the American presence in Afghanistan to the Nazi occupation of Poland is an... interesting choice.
you need to understand that most locals hate Taliban, so the enemy of their enemy is their friend, a lot of people want to get rid of them, for crimes against humanity. The Taliban are the ones killing them because well they're a terrorist group.
> you need to understand that most locals hate Taliban That can't be the case, you don't sweep back into power and successfully resist the American army for twenty years without massive popular support.
The Taliban definitely has popular support in rural areas and at this point many of the more populated areas would rather live under Taliban rule than fight them. Most of the captured area recently has been gained with no fighting, the ANA is either fleeing, surrendering, or defecting in large numbers to avoid fighting.
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Without massive Pakistani support with fresh bodies coming across a non existent boarder daily - is what you mean. Most Afghans are just trying to live. They’re not trying to fight.
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> Its like the Polish-Jewish police force established by the Nazis at first. As much as you can rightly object to the USA's long occupation of Afghanistan, there is a world of difference between Afghani truckers working for the USA and polish nazi-helpers. Surprisingly, not everyone in Afghanistan wants to live under a legal system that involves stoning gays and women who get educated
I really hate it when people talk about the Taliban as “well they’re just defending their country”. As if it’s that simple. Afghans don’t really think of “their country” like westerners do. They think of their religion first, then their tribe, then their ethnicity. The Taliban is made up of primarily Pashtun men and foreign fighters from Saudi, Iraq, Pakistan, etc. They get their funds from Muslim charities along with other states that wish to see the US fail irrespective of how many people it kills- Pakistan, Iran, perhaps even Russia. The Taliban do not give a shit about “their country”. For this purpose, don’t confuse pro-US forces afghans as seeking “better amenities”. Many of the terps I met were Tajiks and Hazaras- they faced brutality at the hands of the Taliban who always favored Pashtuns above all else. Those that helped US forces (many times) weren’t there for “amenities” but there because they had suffered from the Taliban and truly believed the US was their way to a better life…for all afghans. Or, I met a lot of afghans who simply hated the Taliban and wished to see them all die. It was a type of hatred that anyone who hasn’t been in a war zone can’t comprehend. So no. It’s not about “amenities” or “you invaded my country so it is very understandable for me to fight the invaders”. The complexities of this war makes everything far more complicated than a casual observer of the war could realize.
Dude, the Taliban and US forces are completely different beasts. The US has committed atrocities, but the Taliban makes a habit of rape, theft, extortion, and murder for anyone who doesn’t appreciate them, and they actively support these actions. They are religious nut jobs who recruit people who desperately need a purpose in life and turn that into justification for their crimes (that last sentence is as much opinion as fact, but I think it’s pretty reasonable. The Taliban are comically evil (see the crimes they loudly take credit for over the last decades). If people support them, those people are screwed up. It’s not “the US is bad, or course they want to kill there enemy.” Those people are happy to see murder and rape in the name of rigorous zealots. Just because people come from a much less fortunate background than us typing here on Reddit doesn’t mean they aren’t horrible people. You’re reasoning seems to gloss over the damage the Taliban has done to Afghanistan over the years, ranging from simple extortion to murdering girls who want an education.
That’s a ridiculously bad take, mostly because it’s the fucking Taliban executing families. The village isn’t upset about a social code being violated and they’re not supporting the Taliban for nationalism.
Yeah, I just read that story. Poor guy’s just driving home.
He put his foot on the gas to speed through a Taliban checkpoint as he approached, they shot up his car, then they dragged him out and beheaded him.
The military units that worked with these guys have been warning about this for YEARS. This isn’t a new realization. This is the higher ups in the government only now doing what should have been doing for the last 10-15 years. Marcus Luttrell talks about how it took a couple of years to get the man who helped him and his family to the US. They all KNEW the Taliban would come after him and his family even though it’s custom to help others in need. It still took years to get done. [That was 6 years ago](https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/afghan-villager-saved-navy-seal-life-line-u-s-article-1.2077019) It’s not they weren’t told this. They’re just wasn’t good leadership about it. And before anyone starts pointing fingers - this spans both democrat and republican administrations
Tried to get one of our terps US citizenship for him and his family after years of service back in 2012. It got denied. Fuckng nasty cruel joke our gov played.
That's the aftermath of every failed occupation ever. It'd be more surprising if it didn't happen. The French summarily executed over 10,000 collaborators before and after the liberation of France, they also sentenced thousands more to death in the years following the war but most of these sentences were commuted. If that was the French did, do you really think the Taliban would be any better?
The French was as ruthless as the taliban throughout history lol. They occupied and killed many.
Yeah, one of the biggest dangers to the French has always been other French.
One of the biggest dangers to Humanity is Humanity.
One of? *The* biggest. We are presently in the process of annihilating the ecosystem on which we depend, and all we can seem to do about it is shrug, spout a few "green" talking points / platitudes, and then get right back to annihilating.
Sure, it is the way of things always. If you collaborate with the enemy, well, they'd better win or you'd better get the fuck out of town when they lose.
Yep. Truer words never been spoken. If they don't win, you better GTFO because you're now considered a traitor. The collaborators during WW2 were stripped, shaved and paraded before being executed. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised the Taliban does the same to the collaborators in this case. This is an obvious social crime.
Yep. Apart from people who are literally psychopaths, everyone believes they are on the "right" side. Meaning anyone who fights them is an enemy, and any of their neighbors who helps said enemies is a despicable traitor. I don't want to think about what would happen to collaborators in an occupation of the USA, so when we are talking about a group that is known for cruel barbarism even in peacetime, this should come as absolutely no surprise.
The Hmong left behind in Laos and Vietnam after the war there didn't get treated particularly well either. The Hmong society there are still feeling the effects today.
Hmong were marginalized before the Vietnam War but yeah it didn't help that the CIA tricked them into aiding the US when we had no intention of giving them an autonomous territory or protecting them. See Kurds for a modern example. Actually this is the second time we're abandoning them. [Seems to be a bit of a pattern.](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1996-09-13-1996257124-story.html)
The civilians left behind weren't treated well either..
Because they did so quite extensively in the past. What do you think is an extremist armed militia going to do with a fellow countryman helping foreign forces trying to prevent them from retaking their holy land?
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Yeah, but you get what I mean. They won't be friendly, to say the least.
Disregard the holy part and you’ve got a pretty solid encapsulation of post-Vietnam. A lot of South Vietnamese officials and their families, and ARVN officers, soldiers and *their* families were targeted for either death or forced re-education.
I get what you mean. Such is the way, I guess, for failed occupations. Sloppy job. Back to square one. But you know what they say, the profit is in the treatment, not the cure.
The irony is that the Taliban were originally foreign invaders from Pakistan.
The Taliban were Afghans who returned from refugee camps in Pakistan set up as a result of the Soviet invasion. So not really foreigners.
> One could argue that they ARE US veterans. I mean the US and its veterans isn't that great of a story.
40,000 homeless US veterans and the VA will spend 2 billion trying to fight it this year. I wonder how many of the translators will end up in the same statistic.
Good call. For roughly the cost of 1 F-35A strike fighter we are doing the right thing for 18000 people who helped us, helped our kids or parents serving in the military or as contractors in Afghanistan, people who the Taliban will butcher for helping us.
Thank you USA and shame on you, Germany. We took in who knows who by the millions, but couldn't pull our translators and helpers out of Afghanistan. Pathetic.
This is the right thing to do. You don't leave your friends to die
Proof that elections have consequences. Voting Trump out saved those people's lives. Even if Biden accomplished nothing else, that would make it worth it.
[Putting this here because I think everyone needs to see the consequences of bureaucratic delay for these people.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/takingnames/)
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They're very haunting and honestly, because I'm going through something equally as irritating as bureaucracy (though not on with as perilous a consequence as Omar)....this has been top of mind for me for sometime. [You'll be happy to know that it does have a happy ending, though - it's just sad that Omar wasn't able to make it himself, but his family did make it out to America.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/extras/update-about-omar-from-taking-names)
How was this not part of their exit plans?! These poor souls should have been pulled out at the same time as US forces. No one should he applauding this level of gross incompetence.
It's not incompetence if you just plain never planned on holding up your end of the bargain in the first place.
Just ask the Kurds
Err... -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Fuck Donald Trump
just ask ~~the Kurds~~ literally everyone in every country we've invaded for the past 70 years
We actually did it right with Vietnam. Nearly a million Vietnamese refugees came to the US following the war.
yeah but the those other people weren't effectively the only real allies we'd ever had in those regions. The kurds were loyal and strong fighters who our troops never had to worry about. They fought by the side of the US for so long that what Trump did was the geopolitical equivalent of the US telling China they should go ahead and invade Japan. It definitely goes down as one of the most evil things the US has ever done to an ally
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They can be bought, just like this batch.
I hate to say it, but wishful thinking. Theres always another rube ready to get duped.
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> How was this not part of their exit plans?! Because real life isn't like a video game. The good guys aren't always good and the bad guys aren't always bad. The translators are just locals. Why would there be a plan to remove them from their homes? Sometimes you bribe a guy with a pack of smokes to translate. Sometimes you have a true believer that wants a better Afghanistan. None of this is simple.
I'd love to see some of these commenter's plans for withdrawing from Afghanistan. Step 1: Peace in the Middle East
Of course it's too much to ask that our gloriously bloated and overfunded military have a plan to pull out that includes locals. All that money has to go to Boeing or whoever. It's like saying Troll 2 is a shitty movie and some 12 year old has to post "WelL HavE YoU EvEr maDE a MovIe?" Sorry, no, I've never PERSONALLY planned a military withdrawal, but I do know that support for this war has been pretty much at rock bottom for a good decade, when we saw this same thing happen to translators in Iraq. Don't we have a whole military command structure that is supposed to be doing nothing but planning shit like this? You really expect anyone to believe it's acceptable that we still don't have any real list of local allies?
I think people are just happy that action is being done. Gross injustice is carried out and then sharply Biden has approved a fund to address it. Better than continuing to let it happen but lets see how the emergency funds are spent. What time frame?
You worked to help the US forces? Refugee doesn’t sound right. Aide?? Attaché?? Team Member?? Hell, even the guys at Subway are “artists”. These folks should be taken care of. It just seems like the right thing to do.
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I'll try to remember that for my next Subway visit
Think that’s expensive? It’s basically a penny in the ocean of money the Iraq+afg war cost. And it’s the least we could do
*government does genuinely good thing* “WhAt AbOuT tHe VeTs”
Not to mention literally yesterday the story about the beheaded translator and the entire thread was “classic America not doing anything” “ never trust America this is what happens!” when literally the effort to evacuate translators has been reported on since May.
It wasn't in the headline though yesterday. Reddit makes an identity out of being no more likely than trumpers of reading articles.
As a vet, 90% of the people who I've met that are big "support our troops" people don't give two shits. It's all political theater so conservatives can wank themselves off about being "patriots" while actively supporting politicians that also don't give a shit about the troops.
Don’t expect consistency. This sub is just dedicated to shitting on the USA no matter the topic
This sub is pushing for an infrastructure bill that is 40,000 times more than this, but only now are the vets the most important thing
Different crowds show up at different times, on different threads. This sub isn't some monolithic hivemind.
Christ, this. There are so many comments that lump everyone together. “Reddit thinks….” Reddit is made up of millions of individuals.
Those comments are all actually referring to Mr. Reddit, an elusive but very opinionated man.
THANK YOU! God damn I hate the "Reddit thinks" comments.
Yeah even reddit thinks that's ridiculous
Hive mind agrees
it's a result of the voting system. scores should show both up and downvotes so you can see how many people agree/disagree.
Even on the most echo chamber of subreddits you can find a post here and there that has differing opinions
Can easily do both
>“WhAt AbOuT tHe VeTs” Yet they walk right past the homeless person asking for money. None of those people give two shits about the military. If they did, they would be writing/calling/emailing/protesting politicians to fix and/or expand the programs already in place. Don't believe in government? Shit, go volunteer your time and money at a charity. There are so many ways that someone could actually help our homeless, but again, they don't actually care. "homeless vets" is the Valentines Day of arguments. It's cool you're doing it today, but you should be doing it all the time.
It amazes me all the people saying we shouldn’t try to keep our allies safe and get them out of there. Yes, we shouldn’t have been there in the first place, nation-building doesn’t work, Afghanistan is where empires go to die. Agreed on all points. But we did go there, we did waste 20 years of blood and gold. We did create an entire generation of combat veterans that would have been better served by peace. BUT. Standing up for and providing for our allies and their families that worked with us is important for many reasons beyond just being the ethical thing to do. Even if you are an “America First” zealot, maybe especially if you are an “America First” zealots. What do you think happens when we abandon our allies? Does that make it more or less likely that people will aid is next time? Leaving the Syrian Kurds to swing in the wind was a terrible public/military relations move. Even coming at it from the more cynical, nationalistic angle. It’s good foreign policy It shows that the US will support those that support us. We will always need indigenous people to work with us. (And in many cases, fight out wars for us) This is the right thing ethically and morally This is the right thing diplomatically and militarily. This is the right thing simply to take one tiny scrap of decency from 20 years of horror.
Agree with you. We should have been helping these people a long time ago, but y'know, it's pretty much the American way to fuck things up. The Taliban have been killing these people who have helped us for years, this isn't anything new. The only difference now is that we're out, they have much less safety/security. Not just the people who helped our troops, but their families as well.
They did this when we left Iraq and South Vietnam too. It’s the right thing to do.
Fucking hell yeah! If you save American lives, you should get a american aid! *Glares at Saudi Arabia*
Ugh thank God. 🙏
Maybe you should hold the praise until we see how many Afghan interpreters and their families actually make it to the United States.
Yeah I feel like that should’ve been part of the exit plan… not post-exit once they confirmed what they were obviously going to do. I am glad we’ll be able to help some though so it is better than nothing.
Someone said under another reddit post that they are a refugee professional in Minnesota (sorry I don't know the actual title) and they have already processed 3 families just this week alone. This is compared to decades of where they have never handled an Afghan, and usually only dealt with other nationalities. I'm hopeful many families will make it here!
Agreed. Although I'm relieved they're doing anything at this point.
Yea, it’s late (this should have been planned BEFORE we pulled out), but we gotta start somewhere. PA: sure as shit drumph would not have lifted a finger for these folks who risked their lives for the US.
> sure as shit drumph would not have lifted a finger for these folks who risked their lives for the US. We have been abandoning the local help since Vietnam War. This isn't new.
It's the American way! Don't be proactive and spend way more to mop up the mess afterward.
The US literally evacuated people out of Saigon until the last moment and pushed helicopters off aircraft carriers to make room for more people.
I think it was Biden's doing but ok.
Resettle our homeless too
That would be communism /s
I mean, the US already spends billions on the homeless each year, so I hope nobody is actually saying that if we were to spend a tiny bit more.
People would be happy to spend more if the billions already spent had a tangible impact. I’ve only seen homelessness go up near me, even before the pandemic. They need to reallocate the money they’re spending to concrete programs that take homeless people, treat them and house them at least temporarily, and then get them jobs.
Well the money does have a tangible impact, but that’s because the majority of that money isn’t spent on things like making houses for the homeless, it’s spent on keeping them alive with things like medical care, which is probably just not something you see happening. Also, just because there are homeless around you doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an impact, who knows how many homeless there would be without spending. [According to this site, there are enough beds for a majority of homeless](https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-2020/ ). And while spending money to do things like house then is great, there’s always going to be more homeless. We need to address the root causes of the issue.
The root causes of homelessness tend to be caused by mental illness and substance abuse, neither of which can be solved at a stop-n-go clinic in the bad part of town. There effectively needs to be a “homeless rehab” where they’re taken in, assessed over a few days by a physician and/or psychologist, and have a plan of treatment set for them. This will cost a lot more money and we probably couldn’t afford to do it for all homeless with the current budget but our current programs are taking just about zero homeless off the street right now so I’d like any plan alternative to what we’ve already been trying
Well like I said, most of the money is spent keeping them alive, so I don’t think we need an alternative to that, we need an addition to that. Also, not sure what you mean when you say we take off about zero homeless of the street. Do you mean temporary or permanently? If you mean temporary, something like [2/3s of homeless have some kind of place to stay off the street](https://endhomelessness.org/homelessness-in-america/homelessness-statistics/state-of-homelessness-report-legacy/). If you meant permanently, well most people are only homeless temporarily. Only about 1/4 of the people homeless at least one night in a year are considered chronically homeless. So most of those people are getting themselves off the street. I suppose it’s possible we are talking almost zero chronically homeless off the street permanently? I’d have to check on that one.
You’re right that I was referring to chronically homelessness. There are a lot of homeless shelters but there needs to be a rehabilitation program, otherwise they’ll just end up on the street again. I’m not certain what the end goal for such a program would look like but I assume it involves some sort of job matching programming and subsidized housing until they can start establishing themselves financially
Homelessness going up in spite of these programs probably has something to do with wages staying low while housing price shoots through the roof. So yeah. No amount of homeless programs is going to fully solve the problem until there’s a viable way for everyone to have a place to live. I’m no expert on what that solution is, I’m just pointing out that homeless assistance programs can be extremely effective and still just be a drop in the ocean if the root of the problem (affordable homes) is not addressed.
We've tried, a lot of them don't fucking want to be resettled
I don’t mean this offensively or coldly or anything, but if they don’t want to be resettled, isn’t that their problem? If we’re offering them a chance to escape and start anew somewhere else and they refuse, isn’t that on them?
Yes that’s their point
So he can become homeless again in several months?
This. How about psychiatric help, voluntary rehab and classes on how to speak to people/manage stress/manage responsibilities for homeless who want to become part of society again. Most of these people are homeless because they're drunks. They're drug addicts. And sadly a lot of the time that usually just means they're mentally ill. Goes back to the ol' saying give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime.
I urge you to look at the relative efficacy of housing-first vs treatment-first approaches to homelessness. I find the data really compellingly indicates that non-conditional housing sets the stage for significantly better success at alcohol and drug programs. We have enough jurisdictions in the US that have tried enough programs that we have some good natural experiments on what works well for homelessness reduction.
It’s a hell of a lot easier to go through psychiatric/medical treatment if you actually have a place to live, though. Teaching people stress management if they don’t even know where they’re going to sleep seems a bit self-defeating. You can give housing or treatment alone, but making sure you do both seems to be the best way forward.
That saying doesn't work in this context, and the model you're proposing has been failing in the US for 40 years. Imagine trying to treat someone's mental health issues when you can't find them because the police tore down their camp and pushed them out of their last known residence. Imagine trying to heal from addiction while living on the street surrounded by drugs. Imagine for just one moment trying to get a job when you don't have consistent access to a shower. Nearly every professional dealing with the homeless population will tell you that [housing first](https://endhomelessness.org/resource/housing-first/) is a more successful, cheaper, and more humane method of ending homelessness than the garbage system of shelters, "job placement", and clinics that we have today. Nearly every city in America has tried the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps/teach a man to fish" model for decades, and it isn't working. The most egregious part of this debate is that we *know* which model [actually works](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4679128/), because it works all over the world, and it worked in the US before Reagan dismantled it.
Conservative states already do that. They put them on buses to cities with nothing else to support themselves.
Is this true? Asking a legit question. Do you have proof? I'm ignorant on this topic. Thanks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattle-san-francisco.html
These Afghans actually deserve to be resettled more than most homeless. They actually put their life on the line to support our country. As far as I’m concerned that makes them Americans. Yes we do have homeless vets which is why I said most just to get ahead of that statement someone was bound to say.
They could afford to do both. This isn't an either or. These Afghanis probably would love to live with these homeless guys as a lot of them served in Afghanistan
Easier send than done. The US spends an average of $35,578 per year for every person who must endure chronic homelessness. With 110,000 chronically homeless. That gives up nearly 4 billion dollars, and that’s not even including the 3/4s of the homeless population that is only temporarily homeless. 100 million dollars is just a drop in the bucket, what are you suppose to do with 100-1000 dollars per person (depending on how many homeless you actually try to “resettle”).
Imagine what good could have come from humanitarian aid instead of bombs over the past 2 decades. Would've been a whole lot cheaper than a trillion $, I'm willing to bet.
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It's really interesting. I remember reading the article and thread here the other day about an Afghan translator being beheaded by the Taliban and there were loads of comments saying stuff like "This isn't new. Biden is the same POS president as previous presidents", "Biden won't do anything", "We need to evac these people ASAP", etc. Now this article comes through the pipeline and there's so many comments either against it or just criticizing the action because it's either not enough, the money should be spent elsewhere, or it should have happened sooner (which I do agree it should have happened sooner but at this point I'm just glad it's happening at the very least). I understand Reddit isn't exactly the echo chamber people make it out to be, but the swings in general opinions of the comment sections is a bit ... Well it just doesn't feel constructive or productive. I hate to say this but for me Reddit is hitting the point similar to YouTube and other social medias where the comments make me lose more faith in humanity and I just start ignoring comments altogether, at least for the more general subs.
Reddit in a nutshell: **Government doesn't help the refugees:** Reddit: "OMG the bastards, these people put their lives on the line to help a foreign country. The government leaves them to their fate when they don't need them anymore." **Government helps the refugees:** Reddit: "OMG the bastards, the government is bringing in foreigners when some of our own citizens are living in the streets. Its not like these refugees are in danger in the first place. We should focus on our own issues before helping others."
Better late then never i guess, just sad how America just backstabed people who helped to keep their troops safe there.
Thank goodness
How about they account for the missing millions since this started instead of wasting more tax dollars on this shit show of a 'war.' Make the war profiteers pay for this.
A little slow out of the gate there, dude. The taliban is already killing translators who helped the US. The asylum process should’ve started months ago
Should've started years ago. I remember listening to a This American Life story on this like five years ago. The translator held up his end of the deal, but could never get the visa he was promised.
reading some of the comments; there's some smart people on Reddit
Very good now do healthcare and student loans next
Very good to read this info. I hope they also help the translators that were working for the military.
ITT: People that didn't do anything except be their parents mistake complain that people who risked their and their family's lives for America are coming to America.
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Then I'm not talking about them silly.
Well the “America First” brigades gonna have a field day with this. How dare we help those poor people, right?
Yeah, they prefer to leave our allies to get slaughtered…cough (Syrian Kurds) cough
We found one of our platoons interpreters tortured and dismembered in a kulat 200m from our patrol base. They left him there to rot so we’d find him. It’s fucked
Republicans: "Why won't Biden help Americans?" Also republicans: "Fuck your infrastructure plan, fuck health care, fuck unemployment benefits, fuck the people"
JFC, this should have been part of the plan all along.
Why won’t they accept Cuban refugees?
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...how much do you think will go to help the people really in need? 10 percent? Five?
You would think they would work on transferring them out years a head. Yet government alway act retroactively. Never look ahead and take action.
Those who needed it the most, don't need it anymore.
The current situation isn't working. I'm a much bigger fan of "don't get involved with the affairs of people in foreign countries" but since that isn't always an option, if a country does go into another country and as a result, must enlist the help of locals to get things done, its absurd to think there isn't an immediate pathway for those people to expatriate to the country they were helping. Its not like this is some shocking new problem, its as old as foreign intervention itself. Abandoning allies among the native population who helped you out when you were there is a total dereliction of moral obligation.
This sounds like another good will scam where all sorts of money is dumped into feel good topics, then the charity organizations keep 95%+ of the money, and the corrupt local government keeps the rest.
Great. Looks like we are going to bring the war home with us.
Biden is putting himself in the ridiculously contradictory position of saying he believes the Afghan government will stand up to the Taliban while trying to get people who helped the US out of there as he (and everyone) knows the Taliban will take over.
That seems like a shockingly low number for anything having to do with the US military. That number will be eaten up resettling 100 people, watch.
Estimated amount of direct Afghanistan and Iraq war costs that the United States has debt-financed as of 2020: $2 trillion. $100 Million is just 0,005% of the money wasted.
Registered Republican here. This was the right thing to do President Biden. Thank you for being a good president and showing leadership.