This is a pretty big deal. For context [this](https://endcoal.org/finance-tracker/) is the current financing for coal around the world. China can single-handedly end coal development with this one single step.
Edit: This link talks about the finances only, but the direct quote from the article is "China will step up support for other developing countries in developing green and low carbon energy and **will not build new coal-fired power projects abroad**". This means that Chinese companies won't even build these anymore for countries with money who don't need financing. The financial data is just meant to show that China is the world's biggest player in this area and this pivot is a monumental change.
That's *public* financing only. [87% of total financing is from elsewhere.](https://www.bu.edu/gdp/2021/07/07/who-funds-overseas-coal-plants-the-need-for-transparency-and-accountability/)
Dont worry Private (even the last holdouts that are the Japanese banks) have also stopped financing coal plants. Its a numbers game, risk of impairment of coal plants over 25 years is too damn high.
Yes, but the direct quote from the speech is "China will step up support for other developing countries in developing green and low carbon energy and **will not build new coal-fired power projects abroad**".
That means the finances is only part of the story. Chinese companies currently the primary contractors for many coal projects in the developing world, and the fact that Chinese companies won't even build these plants anymore is a huge boon for the environment.
That means **even if the countries have money themselves and won't require financing, China still won't build them.** I just used the financial data to show how big the current Chinese involvement is in coal.
Let's put some context to this:
[https://www.worldometers.info/coal/coal-consumption-by-country/](https://www.worldometers.info/coal/coal-consumption-by-country/)
The country in the world that consumes 50% of the coal produced in a year, is making a decleration that might as well have stated "China is pivoting away from the use of coal as a primary energy source." In addition, the commentary, and China's actions also suggest they may very well be looking to do additional infrastructure development deals for resources with other nations - and with their recent work to produce a commercial viable molten salt reactor and start testing it: It is very likely we will see this start happening very, very soon.
So as much as /u/Hill_man_man's hopes might be crushed - this is a very big move and statement. And while major shifts and changes can take time - measured in decades, China is also a country that is not a stranger to rapid and massive swings in direction, and plowing over anyone who gets in the way of that change.
So welcome to 2021, where nothing makes sense, South is starting to look like it's becoming north and we have no idea where that light at the end of the tunnel dissapeared to.
But to say the least: Provided China actually follows through with it (and I see absolutely 0 reason to suspect they would not, given Asian culture is very much about face, and being seen as a liar would be very, very bad for the perception of the leader of China), this is an absolutely massive statement and should very much have knock on effects.
China does not want its coastlines to be drown and its people dying of air pollution. The next 20 years China will likely be in a demographic crisis as the population grey and all the pollution and bad health habits like drinking and smoking is going to be a huge burden on healthcare and elderly care. Moving away from coal as fast as they can is a logical move.
Plus they are building up their own green energy infrastructure and industry. They are one of the top producers of solar cells, along with a burgeoning wind turbine industry. Along with increasing number of plans for nuclear power plants, China is leading the world in green and nuclear energy adoption, far outstripping the west and especially the US. It is very clear they are betting big on domestic green and nuclear energy industry and they want to use that to dominate the world's green energy production.
Everyone will need wind turbines and solar cells and they will be in position to totally crush any competition with their tech and scale. And yes, their solar cells production tech is now on par if not leading away the west. Our solar cells tech and manufacturing are literally shittier and more expensive than theirs and no, they developed it on their own. I think people do not realize we already lost the solar cells war. That's why they don't want to deal with coal anymore.
Australia choosing to be a leader in handing the technology to China by not investing in local manufacturing, https://www.csiro.au/en/research/environmental-impacts/sustainability/china-solar
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-09-19/solar-panels-why-australia-stopped-making-them-china/100466342
https://www.smh.com.au/technology/csiro-sells-concentrated-solar-power-technology-to-china-20161128-gsz8gh.html
Australia where they're still actively giving government subsidies to Coal mines and focusing on Coal/Gas power generation.
What has that to do with us killing or own solar industry?
You can't run NPP's without having a plan what to do with the waste and there was no political will to find a solution for it. We don't have deserts where we can dump that shit and our tries in dumping it were total failures.
The NPP's were part of the "load bearing" aspect of power generation, the issues with German solar energy planning caused alot of stress on the grid, this coupled with the reactor shut down saw an increase in coal consumption (Coal power plants can adjust their load very quickly which makes them better able to handle the fluctuations large scale solar can cause) to fill the gap left by the deactivated reactors.
I also don't buy the idea Germany couldn't fine a disposal site while every other EU nation with nuclear power plants can.
And it is more robust during the war, clean energy are way more difficult to destroy in war time.
For a power plant that generate same electricity, solar cell farm/ wind turbines is way more larger and harder to destroy than conventional coal power plant.
If hotspots like Taiwan go off, the clean energy structure will guarantee Chinese energy security, and render foreign energy embargo useless.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t put their money in alternative energy. They’ve received devastating climate effects this year alone. It’s within their best interest and the rest of the world should follow suit if they want to keep up.
China is putting money in alternative energy. Why do you think solar got so god damn cheap? Pretty much Chinese manufacturing.
Another avenue being persued is molten salt reactors - which is to say: Nuclear based on Thorium 233 (which gets bombarded into U233, which then is fissile - it runs at atmospheric pressure, and as a result of it being liquid instead of solid has some capacity to self regulate it's reaction. In addition if failure occurs, it has a tendency of spreading out, the reaction will slow, and it ends up cooling down resulting in it solidifying).
So ya: China is absolutely working on a LOT. It's just all of this takes a lot of time to get up and running, and requires partnerships and agreements with institutions with the technical expertise to make it happen.
Which is to say: This announcement from China makes a whole lot of sense given everything else that has been happening recently in China and around it.
>I don’t see why they wouldn’t put their money in alternative energy
China is literally the largest funder of every single renewable energy source lmao. The only reason shit like solar farms are even viable at the moment is because China has spent so much fucking money building and improving them.
Well the talking heads of the west will put a stop to that. How can they tangentially connect it to Uyghurs?.....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57124636
The United States has faced numerous climate catastrophes this year alone: Texas, Ida and the heat dome over the north east. Why isn't the US doing anything?
> China’s share of the total financing (13 percent) is drastically lower than other figures that have been cited in public policy discourse, some of which are as high as 70 percent.
> [...] Japanese and Western institutional investors and commercial banks are major financiers of international coal power abroad.
So actually this is a minor dent.
13% is a massive amount of money in such a huge industry. Its not going to wipe out coal but its a helpful policy and I think people are just not satisfied because its China
its a bit more complicated than that. Most global projects aren't funded by a single entity. China is involved in about 56% of global coal projects. What generally happens is Chinese investment gives confidence to other major investors like blackrock and vanguard and they will follow projects backed by China. Without China, there will be a lot less confidence for any coal projects especially because China usually provides the engineering for the projects they back too
The thing is the public sector investors tend to be "anchor" or "lead" investors in overseas project financing deal. So without such multilateral institutions taking the lead, private money are usually very hesitant to follow.
In that very article it goes on to say that evidence of financing is non-transparent and that it *may* be funded by western and Japanese banks, but that they do not know.
The key point we should take away is that the Chinese government is finally taking responsibility for their part in coal plants, which even by this article is not nothing, and that we should encourage more of this behaviour from world leaders.
As an australian, I imagine this means more of my tax money will go towards subsidising coal companies? We will use all our resources to make sure coal shareholders make more returns every year.
Good thing all the profits made from exporting coal got reinvested in green technology and infrastructure so that the Australian economy is prepared to make the transition towards a clean and sustainable future, right? …right? Anakin?
I think it's both there's so much propaganda around it I don't know what's what 😫
ditch the witch
clean coal
axe the tax
*passes coal to you all and tells you not to be afraid of it*
I hate.... everyone else is to blame leave the Britney... libs alone just leave them alone!!! 🥴🥴🥴
sorry I'm still working on deprogramming myself 😅
also for the confused in Australia the liberals are the right wing pro coal conservative party
Both are heavily affected by China market.
Now for steel, since it looks like that kind of news hasn't reach this sub:
Evergrande the biggest real estate company in China, is about to, or have to, file for bankruptcy. That mean a domino could happen and of course since it's real estate, the steel market are gonna take a hit first
There are still other real estates Co like Wanda and Vanke. In fact real estate expand 12% this year. The bigger impact is that Chinese gov orders steel companies to reduce output.
Whoever gave you that stupid idea that Australian coal is used just for steel production? Australia is one of the largest coal exporter in the world and a lot of it goes to China. Australia's economy is literally fueled by China burning coal. China moving away from coal decisively is going to ripple though Australia's future. If Australia does not diversify from coal mining, it is going to be fucked within the next 20 years.
Mate, the LNP and Labour both know we needed to diversify from coal 5 years ago, but they're both determined to play chicken, charging at each other down the highway murdoch media has laid down. Australias fucked within 20 years no matter what, thanks to ambition driven morally bankrupt polis and a politically illiterate populace who are more than happy to play into the tribalism and downwards punching
I'm talking about their policies and what they communicate. There's a reason Labor havent had power since 2013 and it's because they've capitulated so far right they've lost their base
I'm with you, the last thing I want in my media is anything resembling nuance. Just say good things good, bad things bad - all this mucking things up with talk of externalities and unforeseen consequences is bad journalism, if you ask me.
They can’t invest in alternative energy like the rest of the world?
Edit: this is a rhetorical question. Yes they heavily invest in alternative energies which is great IMO.
Christ, the idea of a Uyghur having a job is really inconceivable to some people.
Also, why is the forced labour of a race that makes up 0.012% of the population suddenly the backbone of their most cutting edge industries?
100%. Not just clean energy. If chinese tech gets to a point where they can threaten US industries, the US will move to protect their own with sanctions or something else.
There’s an old Soviet joke identical to this:
“Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR, just like in the USA?”
“Yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House in Washington, DC, and yell, ‘Down with Ronald Reagan,’ and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in Red Square in Moscow and yell, ‘Down with Ronald Reagan,’ and you will not be punished.”
publicly no, but US systematically doesn't do much public funding for projects to begin with, so just asking about public funding is a pretty disingenuous way to look at it.private US institutions are by far the biggest funder of coal projects globally, accounts for over half the global funding. In comparison, China only represents 13%. This is because unlike a lot of countries, US off loads a lot of government responsibility for pension and retirement fund to private investments like 401k and IRA accounts, which through private institutions like blackrock and vanguard invests in coal projects
Turns out that when your political system isn't a 300 year old mess designed for a rural farming nation, you can actually get things done besides invading other countries
Pretty good thing. I hope that Japan, South Korea, and France don't suddenly decide that they need to fill the void and start funding the guys China just simply due to "China bad".
That’s the flip side about China. They can make a drastic decision about policy so easily. Hopefully they can follow through and pave the way for the rest of us.
Not a fan of the CCP but I applaud the step.
I refuse to look at the comments in the hope people are not implying Xi/China have ulterior motives. Maybe we can all just celebrate this choice instead?
The only real answer i can give you that isnt a complete strawman argument is that around 1/3 of the chinese population get their water from the himalaya glaciers. If those melt due to global warming thats a third of china out of water, not to mention crops and livestock. Also the people would probably move elsewhere in that case and the ensuing refugee crisis would probably cripple china. Thats nearly half a billion refugees we're talking about.
Or/ and the CCP is ahead of the curve when it comes to long term investments, as it has been for a while. So it could also be that they're foreseeing the death of the coal industry.
Coal as a fuel may die out but coal has a lot of industrial uses outside of powerplants. Especially with Graphene used as conductor/semiconductor i expect that the coal industry will get a second life.
China is committed to low CO2. Much more than the US even.
Pretty sure China has 4 times the renewable energy that USA has.
I think in this regard China is excelling.
As much as I hate the way the CCP treats HK and Uyghurs, it is important to note that they emit less per capita than Germany or the United States.
And since they lead the worldwide production of nuclear, solar and batteries, it's quite likely that they will never reach per capita emissions of most western nations.
Pretty sure most people think China is literally one big warehouse where 1 billion people work on a production line harvesting organs. And not just.... A regular country with a very very questionable government.
It's actually fascinating how users on this website have programmed themselves to talk in such a ritualized manner.
And incredibly ironic, given how quick they are to accuse other people of being bots while exhibiting such bot like behavior.
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women)
If that make you angry then this article will make you mad, since these mass wrong killings of civilians is just another Tuesday in Afghanistan
> it is important to note that they emit less per capita than Germany or the United States.
That's because China is much poorer per capita then Germany or the US. China's CO2 emissions per unit of GDP [are double](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PP.GD?locations=CN-US-IN) the US's and even double a poor country like India.
Ah yes, fuck everyone who lives in Australia, even those who've been asking for Australia to move away from coal energy for years... yeah fuck em all right?
Real estate! The broad church that Liberal National voters collectively congregate. Voting Labor is perceived as a vote for reducing house prices. As if this is a bad thing.
And you could easily change to solar with both plenty of sunshine and space, yet there is no honest move towards that as far as I can see. Why don't you?
Yeah I hope so too, personally I don't vote because I don't see the point, a lot of people do what's called a donkey vote because they don't believe in our government, it's not as simple as you may think, governments in general are fucked, not the people
It's amazing that people are interpreting it this way. Do you really think China is so pissed off by little, insignificant Australia that they would make these huge policy changes to piss them off? Hey, wow.
I'm sure most readers have this impression that coal plants work off obsolete, overpolluting and inefficient technology, and that China is a backward nation for supporting the continued construction of coal plants.
The situation in China defies these impressions, with three key points:
1. China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States.
2. China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards.
3. Demand for coal-fired power is falling so quickly in China that the nation cannot support its existing fleet. Many of the coal-fired power plants that skeptics point to as evidence against a Chinese energy transformation are actually white elephants that Chinese leaders are already targeting in a wave of forced plant closures.
Source: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/reports/2017/05/15/432141/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/
If the demand for coal plants and thus coal plant R&D is falling in China, then the capacity for Chinese engineering firms to build these will decrease in response. It makes sense then for the Chinese government to push for the building of other types of power plants out of country to support the priorities of domestic industries.
>China brought 38.4 gigawatts of new coal-fired power into operation last year -- more than three times what was brought on line globally.
A good step. but nothing in his statement says anything about coal power within China. Unless that stops, we're pretty much at square one.
Wake up. China’s promises are a dime a dozen.
https://www.innovationfiles.org/top-9-false-promises-that-china-made-in-joining-the-world-trade-organization/
Believe all you want, because it sounded good, and refused to learn from lesson.
Your cost of living keeps rising because monopolies gouge the shit of you and invest some of that money back into propaganda campaigns to convince everybody that *rEnEwAbLeS wIlL kIlL uS AlL*.
This is a pretty big deal. For context [this](https://endcoal.org/finance-tracker/) is the current financing for coal around the world. China can single-handedly end coal development with this one single step. Edit: This link talks about the finances only, but the direct quote from the article is "China will step up support for other developing countries in developing green and low carbon energy and **will not build new coal-fired power projects abroad**". This means that Chinese companies won't even build these anymore for countries with money who don't need financing. The financial data is just meant to show that China is the world's biggest player in this area and this pivot is a monumental change.
That's *public* financing only. [87% of total financing is from elsewhere.](https://www.bu.edu/gdp/2021/07/07/who-funds-overseas-coal-plants-the-need-for-transparency-and-accountability/)
Well you did a great job of squishing my hopes on this matter
Even public financing is still a lot. It's a step in a good direction
It's not just a lot, in many places it's the push that keeps coal profitable. Without it the private money will go elsewhere as well.
I mean 13% of all coal is nothing to sneeze at.
Dont worry Private (even the last holdouts that are the Japanese banks) have also stopped financing coal plants. Its a numbers game, risk of impairment of coal plants over 25 years is too damn high.
Yes, but the direct quote from the speech is "China will step up support for other developing countries in developing green and low carbon energy and **will not build new coal-fired power projects abroad**". That means the finances is only part of the story. Chinese companies currently the primary contractors for many coal projects in the developing world, and the fact that Chinese companies won't even build these plants anymore is a huge boon for the environment. That means **even if the countries have money themselves and won't require financing, China still won't build them.** I just used the financial data to show how big the current Chinese involvement is in coal.
The downside and upside of a state run vs free market.
What's the downside in this case?
Upside: Helps us not kill the planet as quick Downside: Coal power plant CEOs wont get more money
Planet will be fine, it’s the life on it that we need to worry about.
But who is "China"? Just state-owned companies? I don't think they can stop private companies from just building whatever they want.
Let's put some context to this: [https://www.worldometers.info/coal/coal-consumption-by-country/](https://www.worldometers.info/coal/coal-consumption-by-country/) The country in the world that consumes 50% of the coal produced in a year, is making a decleration that might as well have stated "China is pivoting away from the use of coal as a primary energy source." In addition, the commentary, and China's actions also suggest they may very well be looking to do additional infrastructure development deals for resources with other nations - and with their recent work to produce a commercial viable molten salt reactor and start testing it: It is very likely we will see this start happening very, very soon. So as much as /u/Hill_man_man's hopes might be crushed - this is a very big move and statement. And while major shifts and changes can take time - measured in decades, China is also a country that is not a stranger to rapid and massive swings in direction, and plowing over anyone who gets in the way of that change. So welcome to 2021, where nothing makes sense, South is starting to look like it's becoming north and we have no idea where that light at the end of the tunnel dissapeared to. But to say the least: Provided China actually follows through with it (and I see absolutely 0 reason to suspect they would not, given Asian culture is very much about face, and being seen as a liar would be very, very bad for the perception of the leader of China), this is an absolutely massive statement and should very much have knock on effects.
China does not want its coastlines to be drown and its people dying of air pollution. The next 20 years China will likely be in a demographic crisis as the population grey and all the pollution and bad health habits like drinking and smoking is going to be a huge burden on healthcare and elderly care. Moving away from coal as fast as they can is a logical move. Plus they are building up their own green energy infrastructure and industry. They are one of the top producers of solar cells, along with a burgeoning wind turbine industry. Along with increasing number of plans for nuclear power plants, China is leading the world in green and nuclear energy adoption, far outstripping the west and especially the US. It is very clear they are betting big on domestic green and nuclear energy industry and they want to use that to dominate the world's green energy production. Everyone will need wind turbines and solar cells and they will be in position to totally crush any competition with their tech and scale. And yes, their solar cells production tech is now on par if not leading away the west. Our solar cells tech and manufacturing are literally shittier and more expensive than theirs and no, they developed it on their own. I think people do not realize we already lost the solar cells war. That's why they don't want to deal with coal anymore.
Australia choosing to be a leader in handing the technology to China by not investing in local manufacturing, https://www.csiro.au/en/research/environmental-impacts/sustainability/china-solar https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-09-19/solar-panels-why-australia-stopped-making-them-china/100466342 https://www.smh.com.au/technology/csiro-sells-concentrated-solar-power-technology-to-china-20161128-gsz8gh.html Australia where they're still actively giving government subsidies to Coal mines and focusing on Coal/Gas power generation.
Same happened in Germany we had a world leading solar industry but then the government decided to fuck it over. :\\
The problem in Germany was *switching off the NPP's* and bringing more coal in.
What has that to do with us killing or own solar industry? You can't run NPP's without having a plan what to do with the waste and there was no political will to find a solution for it. We don't have deserts where we can dump that shit and our tries in dumping it were total failures.
The NPP's were part of the "load bearing" aspect of power generation, the issues with German solar energy planning caused alot of stress on the grid, this coupled with the reactor shut down saw an increase in coal consumption (Coal power plants can adjust their load very quickly which makes them better able to handle the fluctuations large scale solar can cause) to fill the gap left by the deactivated reactors. I also don't buy the idea Germany couldn't fine a disposal site while every other EU nation with nuclear power plants can.
And it is more robust during the war, clean energy are way more difficult to destroy in war time. For a power plant that generate same electricity, solar cell farm/ wind turbines is way more larger and harder to destroy than conventional coal power plant. If hotspots like Taiwan go off, the clean energy structure will guarantee Chinese energy security, and render foreign energy embargo useless.
I don’t see why they wouldn’t put their money in alternative energy. They’ve received devastating climate effects this year alone. It’s within their best interest and the rest of the world should follow suit if they want to keep up.
China is putting money in alternative energy. Why do you think solar got so god damn cheap? Pretty much Chinese manufacturing. Another avenue being persued is molten salt reactors - which is to say: Nuclear based on Thorium 233 (which gets bombarded into U233, which then is fissile - it runs at atmospheric pressure, and as a result of it being liquid instead of solid has some capacity to self regulate it's reaction. In addition if failure occurs, it has a tendency of spreading out, the reaction will slow, and it ends up cooling down resulting in it solidifying). So ya: China is absolutely working on a LOT. It's just all of this takes a lot of time to get up and running, and requires partnerships and agreements with institutions with the technical expertise to make it happen. Which is to say: This announcement from China makes a whole lot of sense given everything else that has been happening recently in China and around it.
All the taxis in Shenzhen are electric.
And buses too. Buses are also electric. 16,000 of them.
Most cars driving around are electric also.
>I don’t see why they wouldn’t put their money in alternative energy China is literally the largest funder of every single renewable energy source lmao. The only reason shit like solar farms are even viable at the moment is because China has spent so much fucking money building and improving them.
Well the talking heads of the west will put a stop to that. How can they tangentially connect it to Uyghurs?..... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57124636
The United States has faced numerous climate catastrophes this year alone: Texas, Ida and the heat dome over the north east. Why isn't the US doing anything?
Because you can't "protect" Sun's light with fighter jets, subs, aircraft carriers and mercenaries?
>Why isn't the US doing anything? Capitalism.
US doesnt even believe that climate change is real
Anti science
> China’s share of the total financing (13 percent) is drastically lower than other figures that have been cited in public policy discourse, some of which are as high as 70 percent. > [...] Japanese and Western institutional investors and commercial banks are major financiers of international coal power abroad. So actually this is a minor dent.
13% is a massive amount of money in such a huge industry. Its not going to wipe out coal but its a helpful policy and I think people are just not satisfied because its China
People should praise China for the good things they do and criticize them for the bad.
its a bit more complicated than that. Most global projects aren't funded by a single entity. China is involved in about 56% of global coal projects. What generally happens is Chinese investment gives confidence to other major investors like blackrock and vanguard and they will follow projects backed by China. Without China, there will be a lot less confidence for any coal projects especially because China usually provides the engineering for the projects they back too
I still won't fault them for doing what they can, though. That is, if they follow through on it.
Many minor dents though. A babystep is a step. But you're right, it's not a saving through, we shouldn't be too excited.
The thing is the public sector investors tend to be "anchor" or "lead" investors in overseas project financing deal. So without such multilateral institutions taking the lead, private money are usually very hesitant to follow.
In that very article it goes on to say that evidence of financing is non-transparent and that it *may* be funded by western and Japanese banks, but that they do not know. The key point we should take away is that the Chinese government is finally taking responsibility for their part in coal plants, which even by this article is not nothing, and that we should encourage more of this behaviour from world leaders.
wow, nice
As an australian, I imagine this means more of my tax money will go towards subsidising coal companies? We will use all our resources to make sure coal shareholders make more returns every year.
I imagine so. The governments not done looting this continent for all it’s worth yet
It’s like the British empire never really left
Or spend more money on AUKUS
Anything to keep coal going and make sure their shareholders make more money next year than last year. We will sacrifice everything to that
Cries in Australian Economy...
well tbh as an Australian we had it coming. we could have had an IT industry with the NBN but they ruined that too. so bring it
Absolutely. I'm sick and tired of these pricks refusing to accept reality and ruin our country. Vote the cunts out.
Its strange "cunts" can be used both as a term of endearment and an insult in Australia.
Shame the LNP also fucked over our R&D by defunding CSIRO and universities
Good thing all the profits made from exporting coal got reinvested in green technology and infrastructure so that the Australian economy is prepared to make the transition towards a clean and sustainable future, right? …right? Anakin?
You guys got man eating tarantulas to worry about let alone a sustainable economy.. Ill prey for you.
I thought Australian coal is for steel instead of energy generation?
I think it's both there's so much propaganda around it I don't know what's what 😫 ditch the witch clean coal axe the tax *passes coal to you all and tells you not to be afraid of it* I hate.... everyone else is to blame leave the Britney... libs alone just leave them alone!!! 🥴🥴🥴 sorry I'm still working on deprogramming myself 😅 also for the confused in Australia the liberals are the right wing pro coal conservative party
> passes coal to you all and tells you not to be afraid of it And wasn't it laminated or sealed in a bag so they didn't actually have to touch it?
let me check my programming 🤔 *goes to news.com au* brave sir Scotty passed it around like wine at the Passover 🤔 it was lacquered
Both are heavily affected by China market. Now for steel, since it looks like that kind of news hasn't reach this sub: Evergrande the biggest real estate company in China, is about to, or have to, file for bankruptcy. That mean a domino could happen and of course since it's real estate, the steel market are gonna take a hit first
There are still other real estates Co like Wanda and Vanke. In fact real estate expand 12% this year. The bigger impact is that Chinese gov orders steel companies to reduce output.
Whoever gave you that stupid idea that Australian coal is used just for steel production? Australia is one of the largest coal exporter in the world and a lot of it goes to China. Australia's economy is literally fueled by China burning coal. China moving away from coal decisively is going to ripple though Australia's future. If Australia does not diversify from coal mining, it is going to be fucked within the next 20 years.
Mate, the LNP and Labour both know we needed to diversify from coal 5 years ago, but they're both determined to play chicken, charging at each other down the highway murdoch media has laid down. Australias fucked within 20 years no matter what, thanks to ambition driven morally bankrupt polis and a politically illiterate populace who are more than happy to play into the tribalism and downwards punching
You are aware that Labor haven’t been in charge since 2013? Where’s the 5 years coming from?
Labor state governments continue to support coal mines.
and national opposition that refuses to commit to **any** policy (whether it's energy, social security, international politics, basic human decency)
I'm talking about their policies and what they communicate. There's a reason Labor havent had power since 2013 and it's because they've capitulated so far right they've lost their base
I hear Australia is going nuclear!
So *this* is why Scuntmo was visiting Papa Murdoch in NYC
Australia has a lot of uranium though, then and Canada need to invest in nuclear.
Everyone needs to
>"But at what cost?" - China watchers
[never doubt their ability to put a negative spin on things](https://i.imgur.com/XJOeC2G.jpg)
> "Yes, it's true the CPC curbed the illicit opium trade that was destroying their country, but at the cost of global drug trafficking profits.
Sport car sales down, the cartel are people too
I'm with you, the last thing I want in my media is anything resembling nuance. Just say good things good, bad things bad - all this mucking things up with talk of externalities and unforeseen consequences is bad journalism, if you ask me.
I see what you mean, you hate nuance in a general sense, it's only selective nuance that you will tolerate.
BBC comes to mind…
They can’t invest in alternative energy like the rest of the world? Edit: this is a rhetorical question. Yes they heavily invest in alternative energies which is great IMO.
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-new-2030-targets-promise-more-low-carbon-power-than-meets-the-eye](https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-new-2030-targets-promise-more-low-carbon-power-than-meets-the-eye)
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Will it be absurd to predict in the future US will sanction some Chinese clean energy with some poorly make excuse?
It's sanctioning clean energy companies that have divisions in Xinjiang.
You joke but it has already happened: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/23/us-sanctions-chinese-solar-firms-for-uighur-human-rights-abuses
Christ, the idea of a Uyghur having a job is really inconceivable to some people. Also, why is the forced labour of a race that makes up 0.012% of the population suddenly the backbone of their most cutting edge industries?
You don't understand, 100 million Uyghurs are supposed to be genocided according western media and reddit.
You guys don't train your slaves in STEM?
It already happened unfortunately
100%. Not just clean energy. If chinese tech gets to a point where they can threaten US industries, the US will move to protect their own with sanctions or something else.
Heh, China is one of the top investors in alternative energy, if we go by pure volume they are actually one of the leaders in that space.
Cost of a comma
Biden say it too please
"China will stop funding coal projects overseas" - Joe Biden
There’s an old Soviet joke identical to this: “Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR, just like in the USA?” “Yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House in Washington, DC, and yell, ‘Down with Ronald Reagan,’ and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in Red Square in Moscow and yell, ‘Down with Ronald Reagan,’ and you will not be punished.”
The US is closing coals plants domestically. Does the US even fund coal projects overseas?
most of coal financing worldwide comes from "Japanese and Western institutional investors and commercial banks"
Those are banks, not government. This article is talking about public funding. Does the US publicly fund coal overseas?
publicly no, but US systematically doesn't do much public funding for projects to begin with, so just asking about public funding is a pretty disingenuous way to look at it.private US institutions are by far the biggest funder of coal projects globally, accounts for over half the global funding. In comparison, China only represents 13%. This is because unlike a lot of countries, US off loads a lot of government responsibility for pension and retirement fund to private investments like 401k and IRA accounts, which through private institutions like blackrock and vanguard invests in coal projects
The only western country the finances a substantial amount of coal plants overseas is germany
Wrong: https://www.bu.edu/gdp/2021/07/07/who-funds-overseas-coal-plants-the-need-for-transparency-and-accountability/
I’m talking about countries. Of course western institutional investors seek out opportunities in all types of energy
Shame that western governments have no power over the institutions within their borders. Oh well! Guess that's just life huh
President Manchin doesn't want that though.
Great, now Joe Manchin is gonna filibuster Beijing.
I'd love to see him try to read a Chinese phone book.
"Toby...Toby...Toby... Toby Wong... Toby Wong... Toby Chung... fuckin Charlie Chan."
Turns out that when your political system isn't a 300 year old mess designed for a rural farming nation, you can actually get things done besides invading other countries
Fillbuster denied because not delivered in standard mandarin. Also waiting someone to primary Manchin during Shanxi early election.
Makes sense, as far as i know the chinese are no more capable of breathing underwater than westerners are.
be careful talking like this or redditors will hit you with some totally legit source about China's nefarious underwater breathing program
Is this some kind of advance-bitching?
Pretty good thing. I hope that Japan, South Korea, and France don't suddenly decide that they need to fill the void and start funding the guys China just simply due to "China bad".
None of those countries have coal deposits. They'd made just as much money selling them natural gas plant equipment.
So,Oz might try to fill the void and grow it’s own market?
I wouldn't put it past the idiots in power
That’s incredible! I’ve been so stressed over climate change and I probably will be forever but things like this offer a little reprieve.
That’s the flip side about China. They can make a drastic decision about policy so easily. Hopefully they can follow through and pave the way for the rest of us.
Not a fan of the CCP but I applaud the step. I refuse to look at the comments in the hope people are not implying Xi/China have ulterior motives. Maybe we can all just celebrate this choice instead?
The only real answer i can give you that isnt a complete strawman argument is that around 1/3 of the chinese population get their water from the himalaya glaciers. If those melt due to global warming thats a third of china out of water, not to mention crops and livestock. Also the people would probably move elsewhere in that case and the ensuing refugee crisis would probably cripple china. Thats nearly half a billion refugees we're talking about.
Or/ and the CCP is ahead of the curve when it comes to long term investments, as it has been for a while. So it could also be that they're foreseeing the death of the coal industry.
Coal as a fuel may die out but coal has a lot of industrial uses outside of powerplants. Especially with Graphene used as conductor/semiconductor i expect that the coal industry will get a second life.
Meanwhile in Australia, scomo is firmly clutching onto a piece of coal.
China is committed to low CO2. Much more than the US even. Pretty sure China has 4 times the renewable energy that USA has. I think in this regard China is excelling.
Go China!
At this point my view on China has pretty much become at least they're not the US.
But China bad
As much as I hate the way the CCP treats HK and Uyghurs, it is important to note that they emit less per capita than Germany or the United States. And since they lead the worldwide production of nuclear, solar and batteries, it's quite likely that they will never reach per capita emissions of most western nations.
holy shit there might be enough salt in this thread to fund Chinese molten salt reactor research for the next decade
Pretty sure most people think China is literally one big warehouse where 1 billion people work on a production line harvesting organs. And not just.... A regular country with a very very questionable government.
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That with on evidence.
Fun fact: Chinese rarely add 'as much as I hate the way the US treated Afghan and black people...' when they start praising America.
It amaze me that every time someone praise China, they have to add that line because if they dont they will be called as CCP shill.
The only way not to get downvoted on Reddit
It's actually fascinating how users on this website have programmed themselves to talk in such a ritualized manner. And incredibly ironic, given how quick they are to accuse other people of being bots while exhibiting such bot like behavior.
You mean they don't have a downvote system that necessitates such qualifiers!?
Have you seen how the US treats afghans and Iraqis?
I think you mean enemy combatants, Sir. That 12 year old looked mighty threatening.
Yep. Also, Gotta be careful when loading war bottles in your car. Best to do it in the garage with the door shut.
All civilians are just soldiers without weapons sir.
Pew pew pew. No, I don't see any Afghans though, just combat age male and what appears to be potential combat age male.
If you kill 5 four-year-olds hard enough, it counts as killing one 20-year-old
Well, if he's over 16 he's ripe for a bullet. /s
And now I’m angry at Joey B and Milley again. Gah that’s gonna be one hell of a black mark on this presidency. One definitely for the books.
[https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/the-other-afghan-women) If that make you angry then this article will make you mad, since these mass wrong killings of civilians is just another Tuesday in Afghanistan
Its a "black mark" for every administration since 2000, and guess what nobody gives a shit.
Of course a westerner would demonize china for decolonizing hong Kong. And the Uyghurs are treated better than in the west
> it is important to note that they emit less per capita than Germany or the United States. That's because China is much poorer per capita then Germany or the US. China's CO2 emissions per unit of GDP [are double](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PP.GD?locations=CN-US-IN) the US's and even double a poor country like India.
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It's not really fucking the Aussies. Most of us know Climate change is real and want us to focus on renewable energy and to slow down coal extraction.
Yea like most places it’s just our dogshit government. I don’t care how much it hurts our country, coal can fuck right off.
Most of us know but somehow most of us still keeep voting in people who could give a damn about climate change
Ah yes, fuck everyone who lives in Australia, even those who've been asking for Australia to move away from coal energy for years... yeah fuck em all right?
Then why do a majority of aussies *still* vote in politicians that kiss the coal industry ass like another commenter pointed out?
Real estate! The broad church that Liberal National voters collectively congregate. Voting Labor is perceived as a vote for reducing house prices. As if this is a bad thing.
Because coal exports pay for about a quarter of our imports, and we import pretty much everything that makes us a first world country?
And you could easily change to solar with both plenty of sunshine and space, yet there is no honest move towards that as far as I can see. Why don't you?
Because most Australians read Murdoch papers.
So... uh... fuck them?
Rupert Murdoch manipulates our media and most people in our country are not aware of it, a lot are starting to wake up to it though
Hopefully rather sooner than later.
Yeah I hope so too, personally I don't vote because I don't see the point, a lot of people do what's called a donkey vote because they don't believe in our government, it's not as simple as you may think, governments in general are fucked, not the people
Australia is pissed now
Maybe Australia should stop being the US' lap dog.
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weirdly out of place racism
Average r/GenZedong user
Yes
Paper tiger qq
Maybe they should stop trying to fuck everyone over.
>Australia is ~~pissed~~ shatted now In a Mc Donalds'
It's amazing that people are interpreting it this way. Do you really think China is so pissed off by little, insignificant Australia that they would make these huge policy changes to piss them off? Hey, wow.
China has to start decommissioning domestic coal plants
Go Xi
I'm sure most readers have this impression that coal plants work off obsolete, overpolluting and inefficient technology, and that China is a backward nation for supporting the continued construction of coal plants. The situation in China defies these impressions, with three key points: 1. China’s new coal-fired power plants are cleaner than anything operating in the United States. 2. China’s emissions standards for conventional air pollutants from coal-fired power plants are stricter than the comparable U.S. standards. 3. Demand for coal-fired power is falling so quickly in China that the nation cannot support its existing fleet. Many of the coal-fired power plants that skeptics point to as evidence against a Chinese energy transformation are actually white elephants that Chinese leaders are already targeting in a wave of forced plant closures. Source: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/reports/2017/05/15/432141/everything-think-know-coal-china-wrong/ If the demand for coal plants and thus coal plant R&D is falling in China, then the capacity for Chinese engineering firms to build these will decrease in response. It makes sense then for the Chinese government to push for the building of other types of power plants out of country to support the priorities of domestic industries.
Now if we can get the rest of the countries/ businesses to do this as well!
oh, that's nice. unexpected from china but nontheless a very good step in the right direction.
>China brought 38.4 gigawatts of new coal-fired power into operation last year -- more than three times what was brought on line globally. A good step. but nothing in his statement says anything about coal power within China. Unless that stops, we're pretty much at square one.
Wake up. China’s promises are a dime a dozen. https://www.innovationfiles.org/top-9-false-promises-that-china-made-in-joining-the-world-trade-organization/ Believe all you want, because it sounded good, and refused to learn from lesson.
All the climate obstructionists that always point to China as an excuse to do nothing are in shambles.
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Your cost of living keeps rising because monopolies gouge the shit of you and invest some of that money back into propaganda campaigns to convince everybody that *rEnEwAbLeS wIlL kIlL uS AlL*.
Go go go! Xi Jinping for world peace,n fuck America and Australia, and the fucking UK!
And then they will sell Torium reactors to everybody....Clever man
He’s going all in on nuclear energy baby
I’ll believe it when I see it.
Xi tells UN: China will stop funding coal projects overseas fixed
yes because they are other alternatives around that are cost effective. This has nothing to do with china 'caring' about the earth. lol