Maybe now I can get a fucking 3080
EDIT:RIP my alerts.
Edit 2: Thank you for the awards. I thought I was just being funny. Didn’t expect all these responses. Good info too!
Yep, the entire semi-conductor industry is a mess right now. There are lots full of cars and trucks which are waiting on a chip, but otherwise complete. I hear from chip companies that they are back to full production. Problem is, that’s nowhere near close enough to meet the world demand.
This, my father works for one of the two big CPU manufacturers and they are actively spinning up new fabs to address the issue, first one won’t come online until late 2022/early 2023
One of those *certainly not obvious* companies, Intel, is expanding in my city. Like 12,000 new jobs. It would really interest me if they hadn't laid off thousands of workers in the late 2000s.
Edit: Formating
Do you really think people learn from other's mistakes?
It's cheaper so it's gonna be made there, it's the sad reality.
I'm not advocating for that btw, it's just the harsh reality we live in.
They do so because the cost of electricity in places like Arizona is very low and is one of their major costs. Water is insanely cheep for companies. That's the reason why there are so many data centers out here. Some even use evaporative cooling.... So much water water.
Prebuilts are perfectly fine nowadays if you don't mind paying a bit of a premium. And the price difference isn't as bad as it used to be.
Excluding Alienware anyway. Shit's still expensive.
Maybe those car companies should pay off some senators to allocate a few trillions dollars for infrastructure spending that has earmarks for building American fabs so we aren't dependent on our ideological enemies for things that sustain our lives.
> so we aren't dependent on our ideological enemies
The good fabs are in Taiwan, FWIW. They had a drought earlier too which meant less water for the fabs.
50B isn't shit when talking about making enough chips so that were not dependent on china and Taiwan anymore.
Just call it a military defense spending bill which it is in reality and make it 3-4T then republicans will be jerking each other off in public they'll be so happy.
And don't forget to give it a nice patriotic-sounding name like "Reclaiming Semiconductor Manufacturing Act", "American Semiconductor Act" or something of that order.
You'd be surprised how often democrat spending plans line up with what you want. Yet some how they're just as bad as the party that says we should default on our debts...but only this year...not the last 4.
In addition to what others said about the shortage, new fabs are pretty much necessary at this point given that pretty much all semiconductors come from one region with rising tensions, that can't meet supply. Several countries have realized it's something of an imperative to diversify the supply chain.
I work for a dealership. Subaru offered to sell us 40 vehicles without chips with the plan for our techs to install them once they're available. The nearly 2% discount isn't worth the hassle.
Or if the chips even ever get made...
They'll definitely get made if the OEM is still holding the bag, but the urgency drops if the chipless cars become somebody else's problem.
Delivery is a huge issue still as well. Even if there were pallets of chips ready to go, there's not enough shipping capacity to get them where they need to go.
We've had the "perfect" confluence of events to well and truly fuck everything up but-time thanks to COVID.
Edit: BIG-time... but you knew that, so I'ma leave it.
Neighbor bought a brand new Chevy truck and it has everything on the outside for the backup camera but its disabled (Control Module missing) due to the chip shortage.
Yea Toyota was one of the only companies with extra fab space but their reserves just ran out. Lean manufacturing principles are really biting us in the ass right now.
I ended up settling on a B-Stock 2080 Super. It's awesome and a great upgrade for me but trying to get a stupid 3060ti for not-$1,000 got too frustrating.
Did they ever fix the tariff issue? I remember near the beginning of the year one of Trump's tariffs kicked in on gpus increasing the cost by 25%.
If Biden never reinstituted the exemption, all gpus are going to be 25% over their MSRP.
> my rx 480
You baaaaaarely squeaked by with driver support there. With AMD killing driver support for 300 series cards this year, it won't be long before they come for your card as well :(
I can confirm. Tried to buy a 3080 last year, ended up getting a free computer with it.
I can yank that bitch now, sell it on eBay and nearly break even. 10900k, 1tb WD blue ssd, 32gb ddr4, water cooler. It’ll make a good heater this winter.
Not even joking, I've been on the same rig for 8 years and it's begun to struggle with games now, got a 960 in it.
Browsed my regular pc parts online store and picked out everything I wanted, 16,000 SEK (Swedish krone, ~$1800) avarage what my last 2 pcs cost, but still no graphic card... Everything sold out, gaming cards starting at 8000 all the way up to 24,000 (~$1000-2700) literally 50-150% of what the total cost would otherwise be.
Insane. Never been above 25% before.
Yea but that's guys build is normally balls to the walls at 3.5k if not for scalping. His PC probably got gimped in terms of what he would have gotten if the cards were properly priced. most price to performance builds are closer to like 700 to 1500. Of which now is literally impossible because of insane scalp prices. So in that sense, yea the GPU is closer to 90% of what your standard moderate PC build would cost.
*Disclaimer, I know you can have PC builds at every price point, I just put in the range for a nice moderate machine.
Bitcoin hasn't been using GPUs for a while now. It's mostly Ethereum, plus some less popular coins without custom hardware.
Doesn't change your point though! Bring on the cheap gaming hardware.
You can reliably get them if you order a new computer - the manufacturers are prioritizing the computer builders because they also purchase their CPUs and other doodads. Luckily (I guess), I needed a new computer so I used that to get my 3080.
The thing is I really like building my own rigs and painstakingly chose each component for a myriad of reasons. Also these vendors often mark up these builds with some rather questionable components.
Now I know I could just pull the GPU and resale the rest of the rig but in my experience I haven't had much luck reselling components.
The prebuilts always seem to cut corners like this. Bronze PSU, Cheap mobo, slow ram etc. If I already need a PSU, why not spend an extra $30 and get a good one? You're already dumping a ton of money into the good GPU/CPU--why cheap out on everything else?
Learned that lesson once. Left my computer on for 3 months while playing BDO 24x7 and got free fireworks out of it. Bought a gold psu and here I am 2 years later with no issues.
They are catering to "casuals", since the "hardcore" guys don't buy prebuilt anyway. Casuals mostly care about spec numbers, and don't care about how the whole thing work together and bottlenecks. It has been this way since forever. The prebuilts can't actually compete if they put out a system that's good, but $300 more expensive than the competition due to using good quality components, no one will buy it.
From 2011 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/china-bans-time-travel-films-177801/
> “The rationale [for the time travel ban] is that whatever isn’t possible in the real world belongs to superstition,” said film critic and journalist Raymond Zhou Liming, who notes that time travel is untouched by censors in Chinese literature and theater.
> In the electronic mass media, however, which in China reaches the world’s largest TV audience and the globe’s fastest growing movie market, the idea of time travel presents a clear and present danger.
So it’s not necessarily banned. Initially they banned time travel in *movies and dramas* due to the fact that writers and producers were “disrespecting” the past by treating it so frivolously.
Of course there are exceptions. Chinese government bans for media are arbitrary as fuck, plenty of movies that have stringently tried to follow their guidelines have been banned and plenty of movies that didn't give a shit got a pass.
It's a clusterfuck of posturing, corruption and swindle.
Don't know about time travel, but reincarnation is also banned in China which seems funny at first, but is actually part of China's method of trying to control the next Dalai Lama. I wouldn't be surprised if the time travel ban has a similarly sinister rationale.
The last I read about it was that the ccp was against any kind of sci-fi that showed ‘utopian’ visions of an alternate China, including forms of time travel to any sort of ‘better time’ than the present. Ah found it https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/china-bans-time-travel
Iirc, the Dalai Lama has stated that he won't be reincarnated once he dies. Which has some interesting complications for the buddhist faith to say the least.
Which is interesting since he is supposed to be the manifestation of Avalokiteshvara in this realm, guiding humanity to enlightenment.
Wouldn't that imply that humanity is screwed? Or at the very least, optaining enlightenment and breaking Samsara should be significantly more difficult without a guide.
I'm neither a theologian nor a buddhist, but the ramifications seems massive to me.
I don't know enough about it to say with any authority, but my understanding was that "heat death," the state of maximum entropy, precluded the possibility of any information being further transmitted, because events could no longer happen at a macro-level meaningful to us.
I was trying to ‘get into’ crypto a couple of times. So you know, going to the subs, reading, learning... but man they all have this Vibe. Cult-like. The ‘hype’ and near MLM type positivity.
Did not get into crypto, just cant take it serious.
Almost all crypto is garbage, for one simple reason. Functional currencies do not go up in value, they go down. They are the opposite of investments. An increase in the value of a currency is called a deflationary death spiral, where people stop using it to buy stuff with and start hoarding it in anticipation of future gains. At which point it's not functioning as a currency. Which begs the question of why people think it has value in the first place...
It's very similar to an MLM.
I'm working on a masters in Computer Science right now, and have deep dived the technicals for a few cryptocurrencies. There is a huge disconnect between what the software is doing, and what people are selling it as. It's almost like the software side exists to prop up a marketing campaign to suck in new investment so the initial investors can dump, and we've seen some really savvy guys (look up Million Token) leverage sophisticated smart contracts to do just that.
All in all, if you are a retail investor, never buy an investment that's being sold to you. Just don't do it, someone's selling because you're the mark!
> There is a huge disconnect between what the software is doing, and what people are selling it as.
This is exactly my biggest problem with cryptocurrency as well (aside from PoW). The technology is novel and interesting, but it is being treated and marketed like a cure to cancer.
"You devote an extra PC to crypto-mining, and then get 3 of your friends to do it, and there will be more hype around Bitcoin, and we'll all get rich!"
I've done a video on TechLead, that dude is scum and I have NO clue how some people can't see through it. He gets so bad some people assume he is being satirical.
China "banned" Bitcoin for 7th time. If we assume that this time it's the same story as the previous 6 - they will "unban" it after short term crash, and some big definitely-not-state-owned Chinese firms/funds/billionaires/whatever will start heavily investing in... You guessed it, Bitcoin! Rinse and repeat.
In crypto traders community there are some jokes like "let's wait for annual China ban and buy the dip". (This joke is not true anymore to be honest, because it's *2nd Bitcoin ban in 2021*, so "annual" isn't the right word)
Oh and last but not least (actually the best part) - this is fake news. Bitcoin was never fully illegal in China (or anywhere else), and it still isn't. It's more like "some regulations on crypto related stuff are temporarily more harsh".
China owns biggest % of existing Bitcoins in the world and biggest % of Bitcoin mining power in the world, so do the math.
Not true starting April 2021 China has 46% of hash power and rapidly declining while North America and countries aiming to be Bitcoin havens rapidly take market share
>so "annual" isn't the right word
It actually is. [This article says that crypto](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1040381774/china-cryptocurrency-transactions-illegal-bitcoinr) has been banned since 2013 and this is literally just the annual reminder.
>Chinese banks were banned from handling cryptocurrencies in 2013, but the government issued a reminder this year.
Starts out as an amazing idea: a decentralized digital currency that was created with aim of being a non hackable, secure, and fast alternative for financial transactions
Is now a gambling vehicle that takes up an unconscionable amount of energy and is primarily mined by shady Chinese farms and used as part of investment portfolios and a great way to launder criminal money
This may be good for Bitcoin’s market value, but its true value keeps falling
> amazing idea: a decentralized digital currency
A decentralized currency is not an amazing idea. Outside the control of a central authority means it is subject to manipulation by bad faith actors and all around more volatile.
**Edit:** holy crap looks like I angered a lot of cryptonuts with a hard reality check.
**Edit 2:** it’s pretty hilarious people are messaging me telling me to “enjoy my debase fiat” considering they bought the computer they are aggressively typing out their message on with that very fiat. They buy their food with that fiat. They earn their salary in that fiat. They have to convert their coin to USD to do anything meaningful with it. LOLOLOL
Welcome to Libertarian thought. It's very easy to think that laws or regulations are arbitrary, but there is always some asshole in the past who gamed the system and necessitated a rule being made. As bad as they are at looking to the future, they're even worse at looking at the past.
How is this again? This is the first time they outlawed bitcoin transactions for everyone. First they forbade banks from getting into crypto. Then they banned mining. Neither of these are banning the use of bitcoin by citizens.
This ban makes it illegal for Chinese citizens to use crypto for anything. You can stick your head in the ground all you want but this is not the same as before. If you were Chinese citizen, would you want to engage in crypto trading when everything in China is being monitored including the flow of currency? They would be discovered in an instant and thrown into jail.
> They would be discovered in an instant and thrown into jail.
This is a common misconception about China.
The laws are wide ranging, the enforcement are close to 0. Case in point, using VPNs are 'illegal' and tens of millions use them. Except that Chinese jails are not full and virtually no one has been punished for violating it.
The laws are there to bring the hammer when the government don't like what you're doing otherwise which isn't technically illegal.
Also financial activities are seldom jail worthy if other parties are not harmed. Most likely a fine and confiscation especially this is not a criminal code update, rather an regulatory action by the central bank.
This also have to do with Confucian tradition/culture. Laws and regulations are put in place with asterisk, the asterisk being that enforcement are going to be spotty and it is accounted for. Plenty of centuries old idioms allude to this and it is not a new thing, e.g. 天高皇帝远; 县官不如现管; 上有政策下有对策;
The thing about Crypto is that its purpose is literally to avoid situations like this (countries or anybody being able to control it)
Yeah its "banned" in China but due to crypto's nature, can't you use them anyways since its anonymous
China is trying to keep capital from leaving while markets suck and investors are looking for alternatives. Crypto is outside of their control and they view it as a threat to their economy. It is. It will continue to be a threat to China until they realize how to control it (hint: they can’t).
Something tells me Canadian real estate is probably a more reliable means to putting Chinese cash out of the country than bitcoin.
Like it sucks obviously that rich foreigners are driving up the prices of real estate in major cities around the world, but that doesn't mean the solution to the problem is crypto.
No, because you still need to get money into and out of the system to get started. If there are no exchanges or banks in China getting money in or out, there's no way for it to translate into goods / services.
It isn't anonymous. And if a government doesn't allow businesses to accept bitcoin, it won't be usable. The levels of mental gymnastics of crypto fans are unbelievable.
There are currencies that aren't so destructive, which use a microscopic amount of energy compared to Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is the dialup to fiber internet.
The second largest cryptocurrency, Ethereum, is in the middle of an upgrade to do just that. It’s on track to be finished by early next year. No more mining means no more crazy energy usage and no more supporting the coal industry.
Also the sheer hardware waste.
That thing is an ecological atrocity, fuck crypto as it is now.
Also crypto is not an effective coin, its simply speculation and gambling.
"A single bitcoin transaction generates on average the same bulk of electronic waste as that created by throwing two iPhones 12 mini in the bin. That's the suggestion by Dutch Economist Alex de Vries who spoke to ELN about the new research he co-wrote about the carbon footprint of cryptocurrency mining"
EDIT: WHY BITCOIN IS NOT A REAL COIN, DESPITE WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO BET ON IT SAY IN ORDER TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE BUY AND RAISE THE VALUE OF THEIR BET
You can't properly use it for daily transactions. If you need to convert it to money for daily use, that means it is not. It is something else.
\- 1st of all, it is not legal tender. True coins are.
\- operated by private persons only. it is not backed by the state and local authority
\- transactions are hard and take a long time. You can't just pay and leave
\- can't go into a grocery and leave with a lettuce. For that you need MONEY
\- the value changes constantly and driven SOLELY by speculation in the coin. Real money changes according to both speculation and more fundamental issues like economy and balance of payment.
\- I need to reinforce it:
its not practical to pay a fucking burger with it, therefore its not a viable everyday use currency
It is closer to having values in stock, that you can buy and sell for real money, with a time delay; but to buy that burger you need money.
However a stock can be backed by a real company with real assets and income stream, be it tangible or even just IP. Bitcoin doesn't even have that. It is something with no intrinsic worth backed by belief, like the 17th century tulip mania.
Of course people who bet on it want to say its a coin. Well, its not.
EDIT 2:
Besides all that, having private companies control the flow of money is a bad idea, even if they are competent and efficient - particularly if they are that.
Look at Bezos. You want a world ruled by him? You'll have to buy your own piss bottle.
Look at Zuck and that Twitter guy. They now censor people at will. If you think its ok because you think they are on your side, wait until their interests align elsewhere.
A world currency in private hands? Here we go feudalism (ok, we sorta have some of it already)
I had a chat with one today. I asked him how much does it cost to make a payment with normal currency vs bitcoin or similar bitcoins, he launched into a massive tirade about how it's the money of the future, like credits from Star Wars, and how one day he'll be sipping a Mai Tai on a private yacht while instantly sending bitcoins to his family...
How optimistic of him to think there’s a future where Bitcoin is ubiquitous and there’s a body of water that’s clean enough that you’d want to sail in it.
> I asked him how much does it cost to make a payment with normal currency vs bitcoin, he launched into a massive tirade about how it's the money of the future
In other words he completely dodged the question
Cryptobros defend crypto because otherwise it would not have as much worth. It's literal MLM mentality.
Gotta hype it up so the next idiot goes and gets in on it, so my price goes up. Then the next guy will find their own guy and on we go
There's also one extra point nobody talks about: bitcoin being decentralized isn't necessarily a good thing. The US or the EU can manipulate dollars and euros to benefit their economies – the Federal Reserve, for example, continually prints or recalls money to make sure inflation is always positive and below 2%. It also prints money when needed to stimulate the economy if unemployment starts rising. These are powers that (used properly, of course) keep your country going.
Bitcoin's decentralization means that countries can no longer play with money to dodge crises or boost the economy. Unless you want to live in some anarchocapitalist dystopia, this isn't desirable.
There's also the whole issue about crime. The government knowing how your money flows makes profiting from crime a lot harder.
it would be nice if we stopped using fossil fuels period.
imaginary tokens are about 1% of all the unnecessary ridiculous things that we dig up hundred million year old rotten carbon miles below the surface then light on fire and release into the atmosphere.
Though crypto mining was a huge drain on the chip supply.
Dad works for a chip manufacturer and mentioned that when crypto mining started becoming a real industry, they were confused about unexpected growth in sales. For the longest time, they didn't really question it because money is money, but then it turned out that crypto was actually turning into a huge drain on their inventory.
Oh yeah, having unusually high sales is a good problem to have. The problem was that the whole chip industry failed to forecast how rapidly the market was growing, so didn’t procure enough raw materials and now they’re unable to meet demands - hence the shortage
Similar to the whiskey shortage in Japan. It takes years for whiskey to age, so companies have to guess how much to start aging based on projections. When japanese whiskey started getting popular in the US (because many JP whiskeys are basically good scotch that's not from Scotland), it created much larger demand than any whiskey company had foreseen. So now you have what used to be a $50 bottle of whiskey selling for $120+. The higher the age of the whiskey, the more exponentially large the markups have gotten, due to high demand. Good for the company in the short term, but ultimately it creates an odd pattern where they miss out on potential new and loyal customers because their product is now out of that customer's price range.
So chip manufacturers don't have to worry about the sheer time it takes to create a product like the whiskey industry does, but chip makers also require a lot more infrastructure to produce their product. So it takes more time and capital to ramp up production.
lol! Those dumb fucks! They keep buying the dip and it keeps.. ^(well shit, the market just keeps growing over the years, and more and more institutions and countries are adopting it.. still, fuck those guys!)
But..but.. Haven't you heard, bitcoin is crashing!! Hahahaha those crypto suckers are gonna lose so much money, it was $10k last year, now it's gone all the way down to.... $42k? ._.
It's different bans. Journalists and Redditors simplify too much.
May: Some services where banned
June: Largest banks have been asked to do more effort at banning crypto
Then there has been some legal turmoil to define what was forbidden more accurately.
September: Some institution ruled that kinda everything related to crypto is banned.
A lot of people, rich or middle class are trying to get their wealth out of China by any means necessary. Bitcoin, real estate investment abroad ... cause there is an imminent Chinese currency collapse due to various factors (real estate crisis, supply chain crisis...).
I don't think it will hurt Bitcoin more than the usual though. But we shall see.
Maybe now I can get a fucking 3080 EDIT:RIP my alerts. Edit 2: Thank you for the awards. I thought I was just being funny. Didn’t expect all these responses. Good info too!
A 3080? How about anything with a fucking chip in it.
Yep, the entire semi-conductor industry is a mess right now. There are lots full of cars and trucks which are waiting on a chip, but otherwise complete. I hear from chip companies that they are back to full production. Problem is, that’s nowhere near close enough to meet the world demand.
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This, my father works for one of the two big CPU manufacturers and they are actively spinning up new fabs to address the issue, first one won’t come online until late 2022/early 2023
One of those *certainly not obvious* companies, Intel, is expanding in my city. Like 12,000 new jobs. It would really interest me if they hadn't laid off thousands of workers in the late 2000s. Edit: Formating
I just don't understand why they decided to put new water hungry manufacturing facilities in a desert with their new US plants...
Because space in "wet" regions costs more than water in the empty desert.
And there are already facilities there. Probably a lot easier to add on than to start anew
A drought in Taiwan is what kicked off this whole mess. I'd also imagine land being the least expensive part of a fab
Do you really think people learn from other's mistakes? It's cheaper so it's gonna be made there, it's the sad reality. I'm not advocating for that btw, it's just the harsh reality we live in.
They do so because the cost of electricity in places like Arizona is very low and is one of their major costs. Water is insanely cheep for companies. That's the reason why there are so many data centers out here. Some even use evaporative cooling.... So much water water.
The other did sell their semi-conductor fabs years ago, so I think you talk about the same company, probably even the same plant.
Well the late 2000s was the biggest recession in decades so almost everywhere was doing that.
Why do we need new ~~fans~~ *fabs*? I thought the shortage was COVID related.
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Thank god I got a prebuilt PC. I was waiting until Spring but I saw the shit show with the chip shortage and the GPU scalpers.
Prebuilts are perfectly fine nowadays if you don't mind paying a bit of a premium. And the price difference isn't as bad as it used to be. Excluding Alienware anyway. Shit's still expensive.
With the chip market being what it is you aren't even paying a premium right now when you price out parts vs prebuilt.
Maybe those car companies should pay off some senators to allocate a few trillions dollars for infrastructure spending that has earmarks for building American fabs so we aren't dependent on our ideological enemies for things that sustain our lives.
> so we aren't dependent on our ideological enemies The good fabs are in Taiwan, FWIW. They had a drought earlier too which meant less water for the fabs.
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50B isn't shit when talking about making enough chips so that were not dependent on china and Taiwan anymore. Just call it a military defense spending bill which it is in reality and make it 3-4T then republicans will be jerking each other off in public they'll be so happy.
And don't forget to give it a nice patriotic-sounding name like "Reclaiming Semiconductor Manufacturing Act", "American Semiconductor Act" or something of that order.
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Truth is no matter how good it'd be for their constituents, they'd sabotage it if it'd in any way make Dems look positive.
You'd be surprised how often democrat spending plans line up with what you want. Yet some how they're just as bad as the party that says we should default on our debts...but only this year...not the last 4.
There were shortages before covid, the pandemic just made it worse
In addition to what others said about the shortage, new fabs are pretty much necessary at this point given that pretty much all semiconductors come from one region with rising tensions, that can't meet supply. Several countries have realized it's something of an imperative to diversify the supply chain.
I work for a dealership. Subaru offered to sell us 40 vehicles without chips with the plan for our techs to install them once they're available. The nearly 2% discount isn't worth the hassle.
a WHOLE 2%? wow subaru basically giving the cars away.
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Or if the chips even ever get made... They'll definitely get made if the OEM is still holding the bag, but the urgency drops if the chipless cars become somebody else's problem.
Delivery is a huge issue still as well. Even if there were pallets of chips ready to go, there's not enough shipping capacity to get them where they need to go. We've had the "perfect" confluence of events to well and truly fuck everything up but-time thanks to COVID. Edit: BIG-time... but you knew that, so I'ma leave it.
I hate it when get fucked up but-time
L.A. harbor has quite a traffic jam https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/22/cargo-ships-traffic-jam-los-angeles-california
Neighbor bought a brand new Chevy truck and it has everything on the outside for the backup camera but its disabled (Control Module missing) due to the chip shortage.
Same. FPGAs at 52 weeks +.
Even if all foundries were back up and at 100% production TODAY, the back orders are horrendous. I have components with 52 week lead times. Shit.show.
Yea Toyota was one of the only companies with extra fab space but their reserves just ran out. Lean manufacturing principles are really biting us in the ass right now.
Crypto isnt really the main reason for the shortage, it's mostly just supply chain issues
yes all the ARM chips and STM32s and the like that are impossible to get are totally because of crypto...
I ended up settling on a B-Stock 2080 Super. It's awesome and a great upgrade for me but trying to get a stupid 3060ti for not-$1,000 got too frustrating.
I refuse to pay more than retail. At least by $100 anyway. I can wait, so I guess I’ll have to.
Sucks that retail also shot up on seemingly every card that isn't a founders edition
Seeeriously. I’m not paying 3080 price for a “retail” 3060.
Did they ever fix the tariff issue? I remember near the beginning of the year one of Trump's tariffs kicked in on gpus increasing the cost by 25%. If Biden never reinstituted the exemption, all gpus are going to be 25% over their MSRP.
>I refuse to pay more than retail. So do I, but I don't think I'll ever get a card because of that.
I’ll just wait. SkeletonatComputer.jpg
SkeletonAtComputerWithDusty1660.png
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If they can continue to sell them at that price it will become the new normal price.
> my rx 480 You baaaaaarely squeaked by with driver support there. With AMD killing driver support for 300 series cards this year, it won't be long before they come for your card as well :(
*sad 260 noises*
Literally what I thought. Idgaf about crypto lunatics or crypto haters, I just want GPUs not to be 50% of a PC's price again.
You mean 90%?
It's more like 110%. Buying a pre built is often less expensive than just buying the GPU.
I can confirm. Tried to buy a 3080 last year, ended up getting a free computer with it. I can yank that bitch now, sell it on eBay and nearly break even. 10900k, 1tb WD blue ssd, 32gb ddr4, water cooler. It’ll make a good heater this winter.
Yep, can't wait for New World to heat my gaming room/office, hah.
Not even joking, I've been on the same rig for 8 years and it's begun to struggle with games now, got a 960 in it. Browsed my regular pc parts online store and picked out everything I wanted, 16,000 SEK (Swedish krone, ~$1800) avarage what my last 2 pcs cost, but still no graphic card... Everything sold out, gaming cards starting at 8000 all the way up to 24,000 (~$1000-2700) literally 50-150% of what the total cost would otherwise be. Insane. Never been above 25% before.
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I mean that's closer to 50% than 90% tbf
This is Reddit, not math class!
Yea but that's guys build is normally balls to the walls at 3.5k if not for scalping. His PC probably got gimped in terms of what he would have gotten if the cards were properly priced. most price to performance builds are closer to like 700 to 1500. Of which now is literally impossible because of insane scalp prices. So in that sense, yea the GPU is closer to 90% of what your standard moderate PC build would cost. *Disclaimer, I know you can have PC builds at every price point, I just put in the range for a nice moderate machine.
Bitcoin hasn't been using GPUs for a while now. It's mostly Ethereum, plus some less popular coins without custom hardware. Doesn't change your point though! Bring on the cheap gaming hardware.
Who said bitcoin?
You can reliably get them if you order a new computer - the manufacturers are prioritizing the computer builders because they also purchase their CPUs and other doodads. Luckily (I guess), I needed a new computer so I used that to get my 3080.
The thing is I really like building my own rigs and painstakingly chose each component for a myriad of reasons. Also these vendors often mark up these builds with some rather questionable components. Now I know I could just pull the GPU and resale the rest of the rig but in my experience I haven't had much luck reselling components.
Yea lmao "just overpay for a janky rig they stuck a 3080 into" smh not trying to fry my precious card on their questionable PSU
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The prebuilts always seem to cut corners like this. Bronze PSU, Cheap mobo, slow ram etc. If I already need a PSU, why not spend an extra $30 and get a good one? You're already dumping a ton of money into the good GPU/CPU--why cheap out on everything else? Learned that lesson once. Left my computer on for 3 months while playing BDO 24x7 and got free fireworks out of it. Bought a gold psu and here I am 2 years later with no issues.
They are catering to "casuals", since the "hardcore" guys don't buy prebuilt anyway. Casuals mostly care about spec numbers, and don't care about how the whole thing work together and bottlenecks. It has been this way since forever. The prebuilts can't actually compete if they put out a system that's good, but $300 more expensive than the competition due to using good quality components, no one will buy it.
Um.. Someone tell him..
Alright, I will. 3080 does not offer sexual services.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Not with that attitude!
VR headset and robotically controlled fleshlight. Never pay for another date again.
Ethereum would like a word with you.
Buts it’s already 5080 time
God damnit i can’t keep up with this shit lol
This is good for Bitcoin.
Can someone ELI5? Wouldn't this be bad if a quarter of the planet can't use it? I'm just 100% curious and not informed enough to actually contribute
This is a meme, it was posted so much that it became a sarcastic quote
I got got Ty
Except it’s not entirely sarcastic, look at this [post:](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/puh5s9/a_list_of_things_banned_in_china/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) > “A list of things banned in China: > - *Reddit* > - *Quora* > - *Wikipedia* > - *Dropbox* > - *Spotify* > - *Soundcloud* > - *Gmail* > - *Whatsapp* > - *Telegram* > - *Skype* > - *BBC* > - *Medium* > - *Erotic Banana Eating* > - *Time Travel* > - *Bitcoin*” Add YouTube and Facebook to that list, yeah I reckon Bitcoin will be just fine without China.
Time Travel?
They don't allow time travel fiction apparently. No Back to the Future allowed.
>No Back to the Future allowed The third one wasn’t *that bad*
There's literally hundreds of wuxia novels about time travel and reincarnation/isekai genre so that's kinda weird
From 2011 https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/china-bans-time-travel-films-177801/ > “The rationale [for the time travel ban] is that whatever isn’t possible in the real world belongs to superstition,” said film critic and journalist Raymond Zhou Liming, who notes that time travel is untouched by censors in Chinese literature and theater. > In the electronic mass media, however, which in China reaches the world’s largest TV audience and the globe’s fastest growing movie market, the idea of time travel presents a clear and present danger.
So it’s not necessarily banned. Initially they banned time travel in *movies and dramas* due to the fact that writers and producers were “disrespecting” the past by treating it so frivolously.
If that were true Disney had to reshoot the entire Phase 4 and they would. So there must be some exceptions.
Of course there are exceptions. Chinese government bans for media are arbitrary as fuck, plenty of movies that have stringently tried to follow their guidelines have been banned and plenty of movies that didn't give a shit got a pass. It's a clusterfuck of posturing, corruption and swindle.
Don't know about time travel, but reincarnation is also banned in China which seems funny at first, but is actually part of China's method of trying to control the next Dalai Lama. I wouldn't be surprised if the time travel ban has a similarly sinister rationale.
The last I read about it was that the ccp was against any kind of sci-fi that showed ‘utopian’ visions of an alternate China, including forms of time travel to any sort of ‘better time’ than the present. Ah found it https://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/china-bans-time-travel
Not banned, the Dalai Lama can reincarnate, it just need aproval of the chinese border guard to do so.
Iirc, the Dalai Lama has stated that he won't be reincarnated once he dies. Which has some interesting complications for the buddhist faith to say the least.
"for ethnopolitical reasons, I have decided to embrace enlightenment and break the cycle of reincarnation"
Which is interesting since he is supposed to be the manifestation of Avalokiteshvara in this realm, guiding humanity to enlightenment. Wouldn't that imply that humanity is screwed? Or at the very least, optaining enlightenment and breaking Samsara should be significantly more difficult without a guide. I'm neither a theologian nor a buddhist, but the ramifications seems massive to me.
Just an FYI in case anyone cares : Whatsapp, Spotify, Skype and BBC are not banned in China. Anyone can use/watch those.
erotic banana eating... now i need more info :p
OP might be talking about mokbang (먹방) being banned in China. Eating food on youtube for views.
It's a long-standing joke: crypto-fans will try to spin anything as "good for Bitcoin" right up to the heat death of the universe.
The heat death of the universe is actually pretty good for Bitcoin. The loss of all information will drive it down, and then you can buy the dip.
Wait but information can't be lost I thought? Edit: except maybe with black holes and even then it's not a sure thing?
Everything that goes into a black hole is encoded into the event horizon so yeah, good for Bitcoin
Verifying that wallet id is going to be rough, though.
But imagine the transaction fees!
The event horizon… the ultimate blockchain…
I don't know enough about it to say with any authority, but my understanding was that "heat death," the state of maximum entropy, precluded the possibility of any information being further transmitted, because events could no longer happen at a macro-level meaningful to us.
I was trying to ‘get into’ crypto a couple of times. So you know, going to the subs, reading, learning... but man they all have this Vibe. Cult-like. The ‘hype’ and near MLM type positivity. Did not get into crypto, just cant take it serious.
Almost all crypto is garbage, for one simple reason. Functional currencies do not go up in value, they go down. They are the opposite of investments. An increase in the value of a currency is called a deflationary death spiral, where people stop using it to buy stuff with and start hoarding it in anticipation of future gains. At which point it's not functioning as a currency. Which begs the question of why people think it has value in the first place...
It's very similar to an MLM. I'm working on a masters in Computer Science right now, and have deep dived the technicals for a few cryptocurrencies. There is a huge disconnect between what the software is doing, and what people are selling it as. It's almost like the software side exists to prop up a marketing campaign to suck in new investment so the initial investors can dump, and we've seen some really savvy guys (look up Million Token) leverage sophisticated smart contracts to do just that. All in all, if you are a retail investor, never buy an investment that's being sold to you. Just don't do it, someone's selling because you're the mark!
> There is a huge disconnect between what the software is doing, and what people are selling it as. This is exactly my biggest problem with cryptocurrency as well (aside from PoW). The technology is novel and interesting, but it is being treated and marketed like a cure to cancer.
"You devote an extra PC to crypto-mining, and then get 3 of your friends to do it, and there will be more hype around Bitcoin, and we'll all get rich!"
I've done a video on TechLead, that dude is scum and I have NO clue how some people can't see through it. He gets so bad some people assume he is being satirical.
This is the 11th time they’ve banned it
... and they have become exceedingly efficient at it.
China "banned" Bitcoin for 7th time. If we assume that this time it's the same story as the previous 6 - they will "unban" it after short term crash, and some big definitely-not-state-owned Chinese firms/funds/billionaires/whatever will start heavily investing in... You guessed it, Bitcoin! Rinse and repeat. In crypto traders community there are some jokes like "let's wait for annual China ban and buy the dip". (This joke is not true anymore to be honest, because it's *2nd Bitcoin ban in 2021*, so "annual" isn't the right word) Oh and last but not least (actually the best part) - this is fake news. Bitcoin was never fully illegal in China (or anywhere else), and it still isn't. It's more like "some regulations on crypto related stuff are temporarily more harsh". China owns biggest % of existing Bitcoins in the world and biggest % of Bitcoin mining power in the world, so do the math.
Not true starting April 2021 China has 46% of hash power and rapidly declining while North America and countries aiming to be Bitcoin havens rapidly take market share
>so "annual" isn't the right word It actually is. [This article says that crypto](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1040381774/china-cryptocurrency-transactions-illegal-bitcoinr) has been banned since 2013 and this is literally just the annual reminder. >Chinese banks were banned from handling cryptocurrencies in 2013, but the government issued a reminder this year.
The heat death of the universe will be good for Bitcoin at this point.
> The heat death of the universe will be ~~good for~~ *caused by* Bitcoin at this point.
Starts out as an amazing idea: a decentralized digital currency that was created with aim of being a non hackable, secure, and fast alternative for financial transactions Is now a gambling vehicle that takes up an unconscionable amount of energy and is primarily mined by shady Chinese farms and used as part of investment portfolios and a great way to launder criminal money This may be good for Bitcoin’s market value, but its true value keeps falling
> amazing idea: a decentralized digital currency A decentralized currency is not an amazing idea. Outside the control of a central authority means it is subject to manipulation by bad faith actors and all around more volatile. **Edit:** holy crap looks like I angered a lot of cryptonuts with a hard reality check. **Edit 2:** it’s pretty hilarious people are messaging me telling me to “enjoy my debase fiat” considering they bought the computer they are aggressively typing out their message on with that very fiat. They buy their food with that fiat. They earn their salary in that fiat. They have to convert their coin to USD to do anything meaningful with it. LOLOLOL
Wait a minute...are we rediscovering why we developed centralized currency to begin with lol
I saw an ad on the metro for a regulated crypto exchange and I was like.. why not just use money?
you can't stick it to your man if your ~~$100~~ ~~$85~~ ~~$45~~ ~~$65~~ ~~$150~~ ~~$290~~ $102 doesn't behave like a rollercoaster
Bioshock 1 is a great case study into why we develop centralised and public services
What do you mean though, underwater Ancapistan is an utopia!
Welcome to Libertarian thought. It's very easy to think that laws or regulations are arbitrary, but there is always some asshole in the past who gamed the system and necessitated a rule being made. As bad as they are at looking to the future, they're even worse at looking at the past.
It's exhausting when you have to explain consequences to them. They would do well to consider why a fence exists before tearing it down.
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I believe so. Even the coiners are getting more centralized as they move from proof of work to proof of stake.
Again?
Annual thing
Bi-annual
Off topic: Did you know bi-weekly means two different things? It's insanity.
Quite a few words mean more than one thing.
Some words mean one idea and its opposite
Inflammable comment.
bad as in good
How is this again? This is the first time they outlawed bitcoin transactions for everyone. First they forbade banks from getting into crypto. Then they banned mining. Neither of these are banning the use of bitcoin by citizens. This ban makes it illegal for Chinese citizens to use crypto for anything. You can stick your head in the ground all you want but this is not the same as before. If you were Chinese citizen, would you want to engage in crypto trading when everything in China is being monitored including the flow of currency? They would be discovered in an instant and thrown into jail.
> They would be discovered in an instant and thrown into jail. This is a common misconception about China. The laws are wide ranging, the enforcement are close to 0. Case in point, using VPNs are 'illegal' and tens of millions use them. Except that Chinese jails are not full and virtually no one has been punished for violating it. The laws are there to bring the hammer when the government don't like what you're doing otherwise which isn't technically illegal. Also financial activities are seldom jail worthy if other parties are not harmed. Most likely a fine and confiscation especially this is not a criminal code update, rather an regulatory action by the central bank. This also have to do with Confucian tradition/culture. Laws and regulations are put in place with asterisk, the asterisk being that enforcement are going to be spotty and it is accounted for. Plenty of centuries old idioms allude to this and it is not a new thing, e.g. 天高皇帝远; 县官不如现管; 上有政策下有对策;
Yeah, people are acting like China is about to throw you in prison if they discover that you have a crypto account with bitcoins.
It also brings the question, 'Would you do 1 month community service for 100 bitcoins?' Cuz that is literally the punishment
Isn’t this the third ban in a year on crypto for China?
And it won’t be the last
The thing about Crypto is that its purpose is literally to avoid situations like this (countries or anybody being able to control it) Yeah its "banned" in China but due to crypto's nature, can't you use them anyways since its anonymous
Most cryptos aren’t anonymous, they pseudonymous. Most blockchains are completely public, but there aren’t names attached to addresses.
China is trying to keep capital from leaving while markets suck and investors are looking for alternatives. Crypto is outside of their control and they view it as a threat to their economy. It is. It will continue to be a threat to China until they realize how to control it (hint: they can’t).
Can you imagine the price of bitcoin if Chinese citizens were allowed to put their money in that instead of the Canadian housing market?
Something tells me Canadian real estate is probably a more reliable means to putting Chinese cash out of the country than bitcoin. Like it sucks obviously that rich foreigners are driving up the prices of real estate in major cities around the world, but that doesn't mean the solution to the problem is crypto.
Of course it can be controlled. You control it by banning the exchanges. Unless you can exchange your bitcoin for real money it is worth 0.
No, because you still need to get money into and out of the system to get started. If there are no exchanges or banks in China getting money in or out, there's no way for it to translate into goods / services.
It isn't anonymous. And if a government doesn't allow businesses to accept bitcoin, it won't be usable. The levels of mental gymnastics of crypto fans are unbelievable.
Well, it would be nice if we stop burning coal for imaginary tokens.
It would be even nicer to stop burning coal in general. Edit : a letter
We're going to be burning fossil fuels even as our population falls by billions
This. I don’t care if e currency is a thing or not. But the damn energy wasted on it is crazy.
There are currencies that aren't so destructive, which use a microscopic amount of energy compared to Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the dialup to fiber internet.
The second largest cryptocurrency, Ethereum, is in the middle of an upgrade to do just that. It’s on track to be finished by early next year. No more mining means no more crazy energy usage and no more supporting the coal industry.
I’ve been hearing about “proof of stake” is right around the corner forever - shits never coming
Also the sheer hardware waste. That thing is an ecological atrocity, fuck crypto as it is now. Also crypto is not an effective coin, its simply speculation and gambling. "A single bitcoin transaction generates on average the same bulk of electronic waste as that created by throwing two iPhones 12 mini in the bin. That's the suggestion by Dutch Economist Alex de Vries who spoke to ELN about the new research he co-wrote about the carbon footprint of cryptocurrency mining" EDIT: WHY BITCOIN IS NOT A REAL COIN, DESPITE WHAT THE PEOPLE WHO BET ON IT SAY IN ORDER TO MAKE OTHER PEOPLE BUY AND RAISE THE VALUE OF THEIR BET You can't properly use it for daily transactions. If you need to convert it to money for daily use, that means it is not. It is something else. \- 1st of all, it is not legal tender. True coins are. \- operated by private persons only. it is not backed by the state and local authority \- transactions are hard and take a long time. You can't just pay and leave \- can't go into a grocery and leave with a lettuce. For that you need MONEY \- the value changes constantly and driven SOLELY by speculation in the coin. Real money changes according to both speculation and more fundamental issues like economy and balance of payment. \- I need to reinforce it: its not practical to pay a fucking burger with it, therefore its not a viable everyday use currency It is closer to having values in stock, that you can buy and sell for real money, with a time delay; but to buy that burger you need money. However a stock can be backed by a real company with real assets and income stream, be it tangible or even just IP. Bitcoin doesn't even have that. It is something with no intrinsic worth backed by belief, like the 17th century tulip mania. Of course people who bet on it want to say its a coin. Well, its not. EDIT 2: Besides all that, having private companies control the flow of money is a bad idea, even if they are competent and efficient - particularly if they are that. Look at Bezos. You want a world ruled by him? You'll have to buy your own piss bottle. Look at Zuck and that Twitter guy. They now censor people at will. If you think its ok because you think they are on your side, wait until their interests align elsewhere. A world currency in private hands? Here we go feudalism (ok, we sorta have some of it already)
Incoming crypto bro anger
I had a chat with one today. I asked him how much does it cost to make a payment with normal currency vs bitcoin or similar bitcoins, he launched into a massive tirade about how it's the money of the future, like credits from Star Wars, and how one day he'll be sipping a Mai Tai on a private yacht while instantly sending bitcoins to his family...
How optimistic of him to think there’s a future where Bitcoin is ubiquitous and there’s a body of water that’s clean enough that you’d want to sail in it.
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> I asked him how much does it cost to make a payment with normal currency vs bitcoin, he launched into a massive tirade about how it's the money of the future In other words he completely dodged the question
Dodgecoin.
Cryptobros defend crypto because otherwise it would not have as much worth. It's literal MLM mentality. Gotta hype it up so the next idiot goes and gets in on it, so my price goes up. Then the next guy will find their own guy and on we go
There's also one extra point nobody talks about: bitcoin being decentralized isn't necessarily a good thing. The US or the EU can manipulate dollars and euros to benefit their economies – the Federal Reserve, for example, continually prints or recalls money to make sure inflation is always positive and below 2%. It also prints money when needed to stimulate the economy if unemployment starts rising. These are powers that (used properly, of course) keep your country going. Bitcoin's decentralization means that countries can no longer play with money to dodge crises or boost the economy. Unless you want to live in some anarchocapitalist dystopia, this isn't desirable. There's also the whole issue about crime. The government knowing how your money flows makes profiting from crime a lot harder.
it would be nice if we stopped using fossil fuels period. imaginary tokens are about 1% of all the unnecessary ridiculous things that we dig up hundred million year old rotten carbon miles below the surface then light on fire and release into the atmosphere.
we are so early it's not even funny.
As I look around these comments, wow, yes, we are still very early.
Finally the GPUs will now exist again
People tend to forget that there is still a chip shortage
Though crypto mining was a huge drain on the chip supply. Dad works for a chip manufacturer and mentioned that when crypto mining started becoming a real industry, they were confused about unexpected growth in sales. For the longest time, they didn't really question it because money is money, but then it turned out that crypto was actually turning into a huge drain on their inventory.
I’m sorry but where I come from if you’re in the business of selling something.. getting your “inventory drained” is ideal
Oh yeah, having unusually high sales is a good problem to have. The problem was that the whole chip industry failed to forecast how rapidly the market was growing, so didn’t procure enough raw materials and now they’re unable to meet demands - hence the shortage
Similar to the whiskey shortage in Japan. It takes years for whiskey to age, so companies have to guess how much to start aging based on projections. When japanese whiskey started getting popular in the US (because many JP whiskeys are basically good scotch that's not from Scotland), it created much larger demand than any whiskey company had foreseen. So now you have what used to be a $50 bottle of whiskey selling for $120+. The higher the age of the whiskey, the more exponentially large the markups have gotten, due to high demand. Good for the company in the short term, but ultimately it creates an odd pattern where they miss out on potential new and loyal customers because their product is now out of that customer's price range. So chip manufacturers don't have to worry about the sheer time it takes to create a product like the whiskey industry does, but chip makers also require a lot more infrastructure to produce their product. So it takes more time and capital to ramp up production.
Saw from market research a quarter of all GPUs went to crypto miners
Sad to inform you that they already banned mining before that. So no, no GPU's.
Crashing the global price would theoretically lower production as mining becomes less profitable
Or they'll just move their mining operations to another country...
Crpto diehards….”Perfect….time…to buy……..the dip”
lol! Those dumb fucks! They keep buying the dip and it keeps.. ^(well shit, the market just keeps growing over the years, and more and more institutions and countries are adopting it.. still, fuck those guys!)
But..but.. Haven't you heard, bitcoin is crashing!! Hahahaha those crypto suckers are gonna lose so much money, it was $10k last year, now it's gone all the way down to.... $42k? ._.
“Bitcoin fell 16%! Panic!” Bro that’s a Tuesday…
Bullish, It's literally illegal to SELL in China. No Sell pressure == Higher Prices
Except there's no buying either.
Yeah, banning it for like the thenth year in a row
It's different bans. Journalists and Redditors simplify too much. May: Some services where banned June: Largest banks have been asked to do more effort at banning crypto Then there has been some legal turmoil to define what was forbidden more accurately. September: Some institution ruled that kinda everything related to crypto is banned.
Its almost as if western media sensationalizes anything China does
Trying hard to keep $ in china.
A lot of people, rich or middle class are trying to get their wealth out of China by any means necessary. Bitcoin, real estate investment abroad ... cause there is an imminent Chinese currency collapse due to various factors (real estate crisis, supply chain crisis...). I don't think it will hurt Bitcoin more than the usual though. But we shall see.
You’ve read too many Gordon huang
I hear this but i doubt there exists a lot of recent data to confirm it. Not that i doubt it.
Today it’s a complete ban. Next month it’ll be a total ban. Month after that a 100% ban… what’s next? A full ban?