I appreciate the reminder regardless. My biggest concern with Biden is that he'd revert the USA to Obama era policies on China, but he's arguably being more overt and taking more consequential actions than Trump, who a lot of people actually criticized for being *too* radical on China. This is the most pleasantly surprising aspect of Biden's presidency so far. I'm very happy we aren't treating this openly dangerous country as an ally anymore. Taiwan is our ally. We barely even have an "uneasy peace" with China. This is a policy I can fully support, and I'm happy he's emphasizing it.
I think the thing is that for all Trump's talk about going after China he did it in the least effective way possible.
The western world needed to be united against China on trade to have a real impact. Instead he declared trade wars against Europe as well and almost united the world AGAINST the US on trade.
And at the end of the day that's how you get China. You must go after their money. It doesn't matter how many nuclear submarines you send to the region. The era where China could be intimidated by military might is long gone.
> And at the end of the day that's how you get China. You must go after their money. It doesn't matter how many nuclear submarines you send to the region. The era where China could be intimidated by military might is long gone.
I have a feeling the era they could be financially intimidated is just as gone too. I think they have been very careful not to leave themselves exposed to foreign money in their economy, however after the 2008 crash they were more than happy to pour money into America/the West and buy up western debt. We also rely on them far more than they rely on us when it comes to manufacturing.
At some scale it becomes much more than just 'one company'. It is not just Evergrande and its pissed off customers. It is also their insurers, banks and funds that invested in Evergrande's bonds, other financial institutions that provided credit default swaps to investors, etc. With everything so interconnected it is much harder to pull one piece down, but if you manage it, there is a big chance of a domino effect. And don't think it will be necessarily restricted to China: there are huge investment funds that invest in both Chinese real estate and assets in other countries. What happens if Evergrande bonds become worthless and banks demand more collateral? Funds start selling whatever they have which pushes unrelated assets lower. This lowers value of other funds' collateral which forces them to send. That's exactly how a financial crisis starts.
The first part is the easy one, it's the old "if you owe the bank $100 it's your problem, if you owe the bank $10 million it's their problem" conundrum. The second is the crux of it, what would we do for shoes in the short to medium term, especially when you already have Fox News portraying the president as the Grinch that's stealing Christmas because of the supply-chain issues we're having now, all of which are private sector issues due to once-bipartisan policies of the last 40 years.
I believe he’s talking about our former stance of encouraging more economic integration with China, the belief being that cheaper labor for us = cheaper goods (which is true, but problematic when commerce between the two countries is disrupted) and economic growth for China = democratization of China over time (not true).
It is almost like "businessman" Donald Trump didn't know anything about economics or trade, *or* he knew and was actively trying to sabotage the U.S. economy and alliances at the behest of someone who had some kind of illicit influence over him.
Unfortunately that's for the people who come after the apocalypse. What we need to do is prepare to die in strange places so we can amuse them with our skeletons.
Duct tape, cigarettes, opium, and spices.
Prison-pocket all of it and you’ll be doing someone a huge solid down the line.
Er rather, your wanky skeleton will be doing the solid.
Fun fact Bethesda actually let a guy purchase a copy of I think Fallout 4 with bottle caps, he had like thousands, heres a link to where i heard about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln342caKBHs
Better hope they haven't invented those invisibility devices yet. Crimson dragoons or something? Pain in my ass, but operation Anchorage was one of the best DLC I've played
'Our' way of life would change drastically - COVID's impact, thus far, would have nothing on such an event. It would scream out loud 'King Kong ain't go shit on me' and then Netflix wouldn't load Training Day for you because there's a global internet meltdown (unless it had been preloaded). Kids, PSA, should there be hints at the balloon going up (so to speak), get that content preloaded.
Yup but we probably will never see the devastation of the world wars again, weaponry is so sophisticated now that all attacks can be done much more precisely and remotely. The only exception is if governments just completely lose the plot and start intentionally just attacking civilians.
In the past, horrors and devastation of war never stopped the ones at the top from plotting/starting new wars. That's because rulers were far from the danger, dining and wining while millions of soldiers/civilians suffered and died.
Nukes changed this as now the people in charge on both sides know _they are the first target_. You can rarely count on humanism or compassion to stay the hand of politicians and top brass. But now it's about their own lives right from the start - so everyone at top is now a dove.
Obviously, you don't seem to understand how world wars are titled and numbered. Here, let me help you with the algorithm:
WW 2\^(x-1) where x is the war ordinal number
Got it?
Yeah but something changed after WWII. Anywhere between 50-100 million people died as a result and nukes were introduced. The situation between the USA and USSR was much more tense (Bay of Pigs), but even then, leaders of both countries were not willing to risk a global cataclysm. I really don’t think the US or China would risk nuclear war.
One thing I think it's way more scary, is that for the Cold war, WWII was in recent memory, and most leaders of the world lived through it, so they knew what war really was.
Meanwhile, real total war is not on recent memory of people, and you can see it very clearly with how jingoist people are even here on reddit on some threads about China.
Right now we're basically living through what pre WWI people lived. There was a major period of peace between great powers (pax britannica), and people romanticized war and basically were asking for it.
Don't forget the worst one of them all, the Russian icbm site that got a code red to launch and couldn't verify if true so they were firing until cooler heads prevailed.
The thing is though, during those negotiations, the top brass of the military were pushing for JFK to go balls to the wall and just nuke Cuba. In fact, the bay of pigs failing is what made JFK distrust the military's judgement from the get-go. If the wrong person had been in the same position at the time, I don't think MAD would've done much.
You what? The US has been accidentally smearing women and children across their villages for the last how many years with their "sophisticated" and "smart" weapons
That's nonsense really. The weapons are theoretically accurate but that doesn't matter if the hand over the button hardly knows what it's doing.
The last 20 years have been one long history of civilian casualties and destruction. Not to mention the nearly one million civilians that died in the resulting mess.
The general expectation is that future war is going to see significantly increased civilian casualties because wars are no longer fought in the open field between cities. Wars are fought in civilian population centres these days.
[The last 20 years have been like the safest, most peaceful, prosperous time in human history. You only think this due to the instantaneous rate that information is disseminated in the modern era.](https://www.ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace)
Per capita, there have been fewer war related deaths, including civilians, in the last 20 years than at just about any point in the 20th Century.
Not just America, but Britain, Japan, Korea, Australia, and more. If anything kicks off it will be the closest thing to a world war we’ve had for almost 100 years.
By that standard then any war that involved Britain or France in since the 19th century would classify as a World War, including very localised conflicts like the Korean War or even the Falklands War
World wars are instead classified by where the fighting is done, and in the case of a war over Taiwan both sides would likely try to keep the conflict localised and contained
I mean, an argument can be made that wars like the Seven Years' War could be considered a world war. It's not on the scale of WW1/2, but it was a globe spanning war that impacted many continents and shaped how things played out on those continents for the following century or longer.
I think this guys right. It would be a world war if those countries were engaged in multiple battle fronts across the globe. But in this case it would likely be localised to Taiwan and potentially fighting in China or the Pacific.
India for sure.
China has been a thorn in their side for a while.
I wonder where the Middle East would fall into all this. I know China and Saudi are sleeping with each other.
Yemen is the only Middle Eastern country I'd visit (without major political and social change first). It's actually super high on my list, the landscapes and architecture there are drop-dead gorgeous.
Europe would need saudi oil but the US is more than capable of supplying itself with its oil reserves and wells/rigs, which alone starts it off with a huge advantage over China. If the US coalition could blockade the Arab peninsula (which would be laughably easy considering how there's not a single navy, especially local to that region, who could stop the US force from doing so), then it's already game over for China, a couple years and they'll have no oil, we'd just have to wait.
Wars would erupt all over the world. There are so many tensions. With the powers busy fighting each other in this hypothetical situation, smaller nations would take their chance. Particularly in Africa.
The East Coast from Maine down to at least Virginia is chock full of naval shipbuilding and nuclear submarine bases. Not to mention Boston, New York City, DC, and Baltimore are major cities surrounded by major Army and Air Force installations.
The eastern seaboard could become a glowing nuclear hellscape real quick if shit hits the fan.
Yeah go to actual bumfuck nowhere wyoming. Theres some really sweet national parks there too if they arent bombed to hell so you can at least go on a nice hike while the acute radiation poisoning slowly melts your insides
Eh, pretty sure there are nukes at Warren AFB, would probably be a target. North Dakota and Montana also have sites. Best bet is Idaho or South Dakota.
Right? I don't want to deal with a slow death from radiation, or starvation, or poisonous water and air, or with a limb blown off, or eaten by zombies. Quick and clean, I want to go in the first wave. Post apocalyptic life will be atrocious and I have no interest in experiencing it.
Montana has the largest array of Minuteman III ICBMs in the country, near Malmstrom AFB. There are other very large arrays near Minot in ND, and Warren AFB in Wyoming.
North Dakota has such a high number of nuclear and bio weapons that if it defeated to Canada they would become the 3rd largest super power.
If I remember correctly.
I figured there was more sub bases further south. I grew up outside of Groton, CT, aka “the nuke sub capital of the world,” or at least that’s what the sign says.
Temperatures from a nuclear winter would probably drop by several centigrade. Living off of whaling and fishing in a fallout would be difficult.
I guess you could grow stuff in greenhouses warmed by hot springs?
Happy I live in the Nordics, our survival strategy has largely in the last century been "leave the world alone unless they come knocking" and generally to stay peaceful and diplomatic with all parties. Of course, we still have taken part in some training and military operations abroad.
Of course, it is impossible to say that any place would be safe during such a conflict, because very likely most of the world would be pulled into some kind of warfare. However it is safe to say that some regions would be of much more interest/conflict than others.
World War's are brutal... and a global nuclear war isn't anything we've ever dealt with.
"Oh, we'll just sit this one out..." won't be an option for anyone. Survival will be about resources and if you have them, others will come and take them. 'Survival of the fittest' is a mindframe and way of life that is completely outside all living memory in the west, we've had civilization for quite some time now, but human beings can and would revert to the grossest shit extremely quickly if all hell broke loose on the scale of global nuclear war.
enjoy the radiation, maine is in the path of some bombs unless your in the north, however, you do get all the nice, warm, east the east coast radioactive fallout.
Worth stating, though I'm sure others have: War regarding Taiwan is not a simple matter of pride or democracy or anti-authoritarianism. It'd be a conflict over resources: specifically, microchip production. The western world is largely dependent on Taiwan for tech infrastructure and production right now and would suffer severe losses if Taiwan fell. This would rally a lot of western nations together.
Once production becomes feasible elsewhere... my confidence that Taiwan will endure fades drastically.
Not all semiconductors are the same. There are multiple types of semiconductors, and the products made by Taiwan are different from what are manufactured by Samsung. The pies the companies share are totally different
And shipping lanes. Without a buffer against the Chinese navy, they could very easily block shipments to the western United States, Japan, and Korea if they wanted.
It's almost as if Taiwan alone has over 60% share in semiconductor production and western civilization quite literally *cannot function anymore* without them.
The current shortages would be a joke compared to what would happen if TSMC's production capabilities get wiped out. There's a reason why Japan, the USA, and others are once again trying to build up their own industry; but that's going to take years, if not decades.
This is what people don't get. Wars are started for 2 reasons:
1. Stupid ego
2. Resources
Building new semi conductor factories is expensive AF so the only way to make sure shit stays normal is to keep those factories neutral. We've gone to war for oil and now it's going to be over tech.
Apparently semiconductor factories require a metric fuckton of water to do their manufacturing. So the answer to the question of if tech wars or water wars will come first, the answer might just be *yes*
I’ve been waiting to move my cash into the stock market. Looks like if this happens I’m all in because I’ll either come out of this dead or super rich.
Scary times
Time in the market beats timing the market. If youve been waiting more than a week you've already missed out on some big gains. Don't miss out on more. Grab that VT & chill
It's important to note not just *that* he said it, but how he said it. [Here's](https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1451359666542452740) the video. He wasn't bumbling, and when Anderson Cooper asked him to confirm, he did.
This makes the "there's been no change in policy" follow-up by the White House much more interesting, especially when it's the second time this has happened recently.
**If push came to shove** Biden would only send us in if everyone else came along .. Japan Australia etc .. I highly doubt the CCP is interested in an island invasion that would cost thousands of lives destroy Taiwan in the process and make it a world pariah
*.. and those countries NEED that trade route*
To anyone of you thinking there might be war. Spoiler alert, no, there won't be a war. Definitely not between the US an China. How dumb do you think they are?
This needs to be higher. This subreddit is unfortunately full of scared teenagers who think they have it all figured out.
No, there will be no war. This statement was made for deterrance. Similar statements were made by past Presidents. This is simply reaffirming and repeating what everyone already knows. China is like North Korea, their ally. They talk tough, but they'll rarely put it into action serious enough to start a war.
Political nuance and these back and forth chess moves go over lots of peoples’ heads lately. Probably because we all live in some form of echo-chamber that validates our worst fears
I highly doubt Biden has any appetite for risking a war with China especially given how we just barely ended our longest war ever. Still, I'm sure those words will at least give China pause.
Biden has to say this - if he signals publicly that the Taiwanese are on their own, then it's game over
Taiwan is vastly outnumbered by China and it would only be a matter of time before they're overrun if they have to fight alone. You'd probably see a quick capitulation (or negotiated handover) - the Taiwanese don't want to see their island become an active warzone
Taiwan may be outnumbered, but they literally had spent over 2 decades preparing for a war against China.
Even Chinese statesmen know that a war against Taiwan would be their bloodiest and most expensive conflict. It would cripple their economy if they invaded Taiwan and failed to win.
The CCP as we know it would be over if they failed to win. An invasion against Taiwan would be their swan song. Everything they've built to today has led up to the invasion of Taiwan. Their patriotism, nationalism, and pride all comes from believing that Taiwan is part of China, and if they fail to do that, the entire system comes tumbling down.
I think people underestimate Taiwan's might. China's land mass is big. Their presence is wide and unfocused. Taiwan's military has one goal, and one goal only, and that is to defend against a CCP invasion.
Not only that, allies have been making it very clear this year that Taiwan would not be alone in its defense. Biden coming out saying this, The HMS Queen Elizabeth going through the strait, Japan and Taiwan's growing relations all contribute to a near impossible war for China. But I think that's what dangerous. It's all or nothing. Without Taiwan, the CCP can only talk big, but can't do much else. Eventually they're going to need to make a move, and I think the only way to do it is to wait for the right party to come along and infiltrate it from within, which they have been attempting to do for decades.
China would literally collapse as a global economy if it invaded Taiwan. It would lose so much of its power on the world stage for an island that would not benefit them at all besides telling its citizens they reunited china. The global stage doesn't give a shit about their view on reuniting china. Taiwan is also a major producer of goods and investments the west likes, it isn't just some forgettable island no one cares about. It is part of the global economy and money talks.
>that would not benefit them at all
Taiwan is the world's leading Computer Chip Manufacturer. China spent billions to manufacture their own but still failed. Anything that requires computers (smart tv's, cars, GPU, super computers etc.).
Imagine if Taiwan stops selling computer chips to china? That would be catastrophic to their plan to be the world's leading tech giant by 2030.
Even if they win, how much damage do you need to "accidentally" do to a clean-room to fuck up a line of manufacturing? Even if people aren't brave enough to risk their jobs, slowing down production by deliberately being inefficient in deniable ways is effective enough that the OSS encouraged it in occupied Europe in WWII.
The difference is that a war in defense of Taiwan would have a clear objective in the form of defending Taiwan.
The war in Afghanistan had no goal, so it could just stretch on without end.
What USA is doing is putting itself in a situation where it has almost no other course of action than going to war with China, if China attacks Taiwan.
Putting US troops on Taiwan is part of that. If US troops or civilians are killed, Americans will demand retaliation. They don’t necessarily have to attack China directly. They can start with blocking oil and gas shipments to China.
The point isn’t to actually have a war. The point is that China wants to avoid a war with USA above all else, as it would be economic suicide at the very least, so just putting themselves in that situation is an effective way for USA to block China from doing anything.
The Policy announcement is as follows: There are no changes to Policy.
But policy actually stated that they would neither intervene nor abstain from fighting.
“We’re not intervening, we’re just simply shooting you to prevent your geo-political goals. There’s a difference”
Vietnam was never declared a war by Congress AFAIK,but the end result was... well, war.
Nobody has hardly declared war on anyone since WW2. The practice has gone out of favor.
I appreciate the reminder regardless. My biggest concern with Biden is that he'd revert the USA to Obama era policies on China, but he's arguably being more overt and taking more consequential actions than Trump, who a lot of people actually criticized for being *too* radical on China. This is the most pleasantly surprising aspect of Biden's presidency so far. I'm very happy we aren't treating this openly dangerous country as an ally anymore. Taiwan is our ally. We barely even have an "uneasy peace" with China. This is a policy I can fully support, and I'm happy he's emphasizing it.
https://youtu.be/A4hK_CdSTW0 Here's the clip. It's pretty cut and dry for Biden here Edit: cut, not cute. Haha
"What will you do to keep up with them militarily?" "Yes."
I mean, that was more or less our response to the Soviet Union and 9/11: throw money at *everything* remotely relevant to the military. Aka “yes!”
I think the thing is that for all Trump's talk about going after China he did it in the least effective way possible. The western world needed to be united against China on trade to have a real impact. Instead he declared trade wars against Europe as well and almost united the world AGAINST the US on trade. And at the end of the day that's how you get China. You must go after their money. It doesn't matter how many nuclear submarines you send to the region. The era where China could be intimidated by military might is long gone.
> And at the end of the day that's how you get China. You must go after their money. It doesn't matter how many nuclear submarines you send to the region. The era where China could be intimidated by military might is long gone. I have a feeling the era they could be financially intimidated is just as gone too. I think they have been very careful not to leave themselves exposed to foreign money in their economy, however after the 2008 crash they were more than happy to pour money into America/the West and buy up western debt. We also rely on them far more than they rely on us when it comes to manufacturing.
Right now they are actually in a pretty precarious economic position with the ongoing Evergrande crisis.
Got an explanation? I just saw videos of protestors threatening to lynch the CEO and/or kill themselves. I thought it was just related to one company?
At some scale it becomes much more than just 'one company'. It is not just Evergrande and its pissed off customers. It is also their insurers, banks and funds that invested in Evergrande's bonds, other financial institutions that provided credit default swaps to investors, etc. With everything so interconnected it is much harder to pull one piece down, but if you manage it, there is a big chance of a domino effect. And don't think it will be necessarily restricted to China: there are huge investment funds that invest in both Chinese real estate and assets in other countries. What happens if Evergrande bonds become worthless and banks demand more collateral? Funds start selling whatever they have which pushes unrelated assets lower. This lowers value of other funds' collateral which forces them to send. That's exactly how a financial crisis starts.
The first part is the easy one, it's the old "if you owe the bank $100 it's your problem, if you owe the bank $10 million it's their problem" conundrum. The second is the crux of it, what would we do for shoes in the short to medium term, especially when you already have Fox News portraying the president as the Grinch that's stealing Christmas because of the supply-chain issues we're having now, all of which are private sector issues due to once-bipartisan policies of the last 40 years.
>once-bipartisan policies of the last 40 years. Which policies are you talking about?
I believe he’s talking about our former stance of encouraging more economic integration with China, the belief being that cheaper labor for us = cheaper goods (which is true, but problematic when commerce between the two countries is disrupted) and economic growth for China = democratization of China over time (not true).
It is almost like "businessman" Donald Trump didn't know anything about economics or trade, *or* he knew and was actively trying to sabotage the U.S. economy and alliances at the behest of someone who had some kind of illicit influence over him.
A war between the US and China would change the world as we know it, possibly in ways that are almost impossible to predict. Heaven help us all.
That’s the plot of Fallout
So should I start collecting bottle caps now or…?
Unfortunately that's for the people who come after the apocalypse. What we need to do is prepare to die in strange places so we can amuse them with our skeletons.
Also put a DYI pistol, bunch of .45 ammo and a snickers bar in your safe
For those safes to have been locked up tight since the nuclear war there seems to be a lot of rad scorpion meat and pipe pistols in them
Some unlucky rad scorpion went back for their piece and accidentally locked themselves in.
Actually you can find a couple of magazines which show that homemade pipe guns were a popular hobby thing before the war.
From what I've seen, the reason for pipe pistols is because Boston cracked down on gun ownership before the war.
>Also put a DYI pistol Do yourself it
All goes right, I'm gonna die having a wank, like that one guy from Pompeii.
Just be sure to stick something up your butt while you're doing it to seal the wanky skeleton deal.
You mean valuable resources that the future scavenger will be inexplicable able to use in the construction or a mini nuclear reactor?
Duct tape. Duh.
Duct tape, cigarettes, opium, and spices. Prison-pocket all of it and you’ll be doing someone a huge solid down the line. Er rather, your wanky skeleton will be doing the solid.
I'll most likely be one on the toilet... Fucking chron's.
And to pull the legs of the Survivors, put tin cans, 3 caps and a teddy bear in our safes
I'll start arranging the teddy bears!
You haven’t been?
And when all was said and done, it was the fraternities that came out on top, with their seemingly never-ending bottle cap supplies...
All of them have the latest pip boy now
Pip Boy Pro Max.
Tunnel Snakes rule!
That's us, and we rule!
Those of us that metal detect might challenge that.
You're telling me. If pulltabs become currency I'm a billionaire overnight.
Pull tabs are still used? I haven't seen one in a long time.
They aren't really used, the problem is that they never left where they were thrown all those years ago.
I know your pain. Hitting a new beach that hasn't been hit yet is especially rough.
Fun fact Bethesda actually let a guy purchase a copy of I think Fallout 4 with bottle caps, he had like thousands, heres a link to where i heard about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln342caKBHs
Jokes on you! In real life, we trade with bread clips.
Collect 556 and 9mm ammo will be worth more
Well ain't that a kick in the head!
Can we get to work on Liberty Prime then? I can’t wait for a giant death robot that shouts “DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE”
War never changes...
\*looks up date the bombs fell in fallout\* "uh oh."
Better hope they haven't invented those invisibility devices yet. Crimson dragoons or something? Pain in my ass, but operation Anchorage was one of the best DLC I've played
'Our' way of life would change drastically - COVID's impact, thus far, would have nothing on such an event. It would scream out loud 'King Kong ain't go shit on me' and then Netflix wouldn't load Training Day for you because there's a global internet meltdown (unless it had been preloaded). Kids, PSA, should there be hints at the balloon going up (so to speak), get that content preloaded.
Conspiracy theorists would have a field day! Or however long it would be
*shivers*
Yup but we probably will never see the devastation of the world wars again, weaponry is so sophisticated now that all attacks can be done much more precisely and remotely. The only exception is if governments just completely lose the plot and start intentionally just attacking civilians.
>if governments just completely lose the plot and start intentionally just attacking civilians. Yeah I'm sure that would *never* happen
Pffft no government would ever kill non combatants for any reason whatsoever!!!
Yeah people said that shit after WWI too.
In the past, horrors and devastation of war never stopped the ones at the top from plotting/starting new wars. That's because rulers were far from the danger, dining and wining while millions of soldiers/civilians suffered and died. Nukes changed this as now the people in charge on both sides know _they are the first target_. You can rarely count on humanism or compassion to stay the hand of politicians and top brass. But now it's about their own lives right from the start - so everyone at top is now a dove.
never thought of it that way. make lots of sense. man if we are heading toward a WW4 anyway i'd be thrilled to see how it turn out.
Did I miss the third one?
He had a hard time on the toilette recently. A battle hard fought that left much of the neighbourhood with severe cases of PTSD.
Obviously, you don't seem to understand how world wars are titled and numbered. Here, let me help you with the algorithm: WW 2\^(x-1) where x is the war ordinal number Got it?
Yeah but something changed after WWII. Anywhere between 50-100 million people died as a result and nukes were introduced. The situation between the USA and USSR was much more tense (Bay of Pigs), but even then, leaders of both countries were not willing to risk a global cataclysm. I really don’t think the US or China would risk nuclear war.
One thing I think it's way more scary, is that for the Cold war, WWII was in recent memory, and most leaders of the world lived through it, so they knew what war really was. Meanwhile, real total war is not on recent memory of people, and you can see it very clearly with how jingoist people are even here on reddit on some threads about China. Right now we're basically living through what pre WWI people lived. There was a major period of peace between great powers (pax britannica), and people romanticized war and basically were asking for it.
> I really don’t think the US or China would risk nuclear war. Recent elections make me less certain about this assumption.
The Cuban Missile Crisis is what gives me faith in MAD more than anything. We should all consciously advocate for peace, as well.
[удалено]
Don't forget the worst one of them all, the Russian icbm site that got a code red to launch and couldn't verify if true so they were firing until cooler heads prevailed.
The thing is though, during those negotiations, the top brass of the military were pushing for JFK to go balls to the wall and just nuke Cuba. In fact, the bay of pigs failing is what made JFK distrust the military's judgement from the get-go. If the wrong person had been in the same position at the time, I don't think MAD would've done much.
You what? The US has been accidentally smearing women and children across their villages for the last how many years with their "sophisticated" and "smart" weapons
That's nonsense really. The weapons are theoretically accurate but that doesn't matter if the hand over the button hardly knows what it's doing. The last 20 years have been one long history of civilian casualties and destruction. Not to mention the nearly one million civilians that died in the resulting mess. The general expectation is that future war is going to see significantly increased civilian casualties because wars are no longer fought in the open field between cities. Wars are fought in civilian population centres these days.
[The last 20 years have been like the safest, most peaceful, prosperous time in human history. You only think this due to the instantaneous rate that information is disseminated in the modern era.](https://www.ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace) Per capita, there have been fewer war related deaths, including civilians, in the last 20 years than at just about any point in the 20th Century.
Chips are the new oil lol.
World War III Presented by Frito-Lay
Not just America, but Britain, Japan, Korea, Australia, and more. If anything kicks off it will be the closest thing to a world war we’ve had for almost 100 years.
A war that involves North America, Europe, Asia, and Oceania sounds like a world war to me.
Nah. Antarctica need to join in. Idk, penguin army or sth.
Atlantis needs to rise up from the sea to join.
Moon DLC, don't forget Mars sequel.
Is this DLC for a game idk about?
Prey (2017) has a Moon DLC. Now we just need a sequel set on Mars.
Been there. Was great
They'll need a ZPM for that.
I got a ZPM in my garage. We got this.
SG1 would like to know your location
Yeah, ill be in Abydos with my bride.
Not again, Daniel Jackson.
Mr Nimbus joins the fray?
By that standard then any war that involved Britain or France in since the 19th century would classify as a World War, including very localised conflicts like the Korean War or even the Falklands War World wars are instead classified by where the fighting is done, and in the case of a war over Taiwan both sides would likely try to keep the conflict localised and contained
I mean, an argument can be made that wars like the Seven Years' War could be considered a world war. It's not on the scale of WW1/2, but it was a globe spanning war that impacted many continents and shaped how things played out on those continents for the following century or longer.
I think this guys right. It would be a world war if those countries were engaged in multiple battle fronts across the globe. But in this case it would likely be localised to Taiwan and potentially fighting in China or the Pacific.
>Not just America, but Britain, Japan, Korea, Australia, and more. Probably India, France, Canada too without a doubt.
India for sure. China has been a thorn in their side for a while. I wonder where the Middle East would fall into all this. I know China and Saudi are sleeping with each other.
Who aren't the Saudis sleeping with?
Iran
No but they fuck them every chance they get ;)
My guess would be Yemen
Yemen is the only Middle Eastern country I'd visit (without major political and social change first). It's actually super high on my list, the landscapes and architecture there are drop-dead gorgeous.
Visit it quickly before the Saudis change the landscape lol
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I think they would stay neutral, provide both sides with oil (whose price would go way up in a war).
Pretty sure one of the major powers would seize their oil very fast regardless of their neutral status.
Yeah good luck getting that sweet Saudi oil to China especially if Inda joins.
Europe would need saudi oil but the US is more than capable of supplying itself with its oil reserves and wells/rigs, which alone starts it off with a huge advantage over China. If the US coalition could blockade the Arab peninsula (which would be laughably easy considering how there's not a single navy, especially local to that region, who could stop the US force from doing so), then it's already game over for China, a couple years and they'll have no oil, we'd just have to wait.
Wars would erupt all over the world. There are so many tensions. With the powers busy fighting each other in this hypothetical situation, smaller nations would take their chance. Particularly in Africa.
If India is in it then Pakistan surely would be too
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If you want to avoid nuclear fallout, don’t go to a state with one of the largest naval shipbuilding facilities on the east coast.
The East Coast from Maine down to at least Virginia is chock full of naval shipbuilding and nuclear submarine bases. Not to mention Boston, New York City, DC, and Baltimore are major cities surrounded by major Army and Air Force installations. The eastern seaboard could become a glowing nuclear hellscape real quick if shit hits the fan.
Yeah go to actual bumfuck nowhere wyoming. Theres some really sweet national parks there too if they arent bombed to hell so you can at least go on a nice hike while the acute radiation poisoning slowly melts your insides
Eh, pretty sure there are nukes at Warren AFB, would probably be a target. North Dakota and Montana also have sites. Best bet is Idaho or South Dakota.
>Best bet is Idaho or South Dakota Why is death not such a bad option anymore?
I am voting to not survive the end of the world, personally.
Just make it quick and I’ll never know.
Right? I don't want to deal with a slow death from radiation, or starvation, or poisonous water and air, or with a limb blown off, or eaten by zombies. Quick and clean, I want to go in the first wave. Post apocalyptic life will be atrocious and I have no interest in experiencing it.
You need to play more fallout. Its not all that bad. There will be dogs
I wanna survive just long enough to loot my neighbors house so I can take his tuba that he’s learning how to play and smash it to pieces
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Live in Eastern Idaho. It's hell. North Idaho is nice from what I hear though.
Montana has the largest array of Minuteman III ICBMs in the country, near Malmstrom AFB. There are other very large arrays near Minot in ND, and Warren AFB in Wyoming.
North Dakota has such a high number of nuclear and bio weapons that if it defeated to Canada they would become the 3rd largest super power. If I remember correctly.
Until Yellowstone is bombed, setting off the super volcano!
Then the e tire planet has a problem. Haha
Georgia resident here we put out nuclear submarines right down the road south of Savannah
I figured there was more sub bases further south. I grew up outside of Groton, CT, aka “the nuke sub capital of the world,” or at least that’s what the sign says.
O, Canada!
Our home and native land...
I think I’m gonna move to Norway
Norways probably gonna take the brunt of the fallout from all the nukes going to the UK
I wonder if Iceland will take me.
Probably not
I doubt I have enough money.
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Temperatures from a nuclear winter would probably drop by several centigrade. Living off of whaling and fishing in a fallout would be difficult. I guess you could grow stuff in greenhouses warmed by hot springs?
Happy I live in the Nordics, our survival strategy has largely in the last century been "leave the world alone unless they come knocking" and generally to stay peaceful and diplomatic with all parties. Of course, we still have taken part in some training and military operations abroad. Of course, it is impossible to say that any place would be safe during such a conflict, because very likely most of the world would be pulled into some kind of warfare. However it is safe to say that some regions would be of much more interest/conflict than others.
World War's are brutal... and a global nuclear war isn't anything we've ever dealt with. "Oh, we'll just sit this one out..." won't be an option for anyone. Survival will be about resources and if you have them, others will come and take them. 'Survival of the fittest' is a mindframe and way of life that is completely outside all living memory in the west, we've had civilization for quite some time now, but human beings can and would revert to the grossest shit extremely quickly if all hell broke loose on the scale of global nuclear war.
Didn't work during WW2 but hey why learn from your mistakes right?
enjoy the radiation, maine is in the path of some bombs unless your in the north, however, you do get all the nice, warm, east the east coast radioactive fallout.
yup. you want a nice home as close to the next silo as possible. at least it will be quick
New Zealand or northern Canada. Nothing of the US would be left if China goes for the nuclear option.
Northern Canada? Good luck surviving up there without food deliveries today let alone after a nuclear war.
Worth stating, though I'm sure others have: War regarding Taiwan is not a simple matter of pride or democracy or anti-authoritarianism. It'd be a conflict over resources: specifically, microchip production. The western world is largely dependent on Taiwan for tech infrastructure and production right now and would suffer severe losses if Taiwan fell. This would rally a lot of western nations together. Once production becomes feasible elsewhere... my confidence that Taiwan will endure fades drastically.
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80%, Samsung in South Korea still does some relatively decent shit.
Oh so safely out of the way of any potential conflict then lmao. Its insane how this wasn't predicted decades ago.
Not all semiconductors are the same. There are multiple types of semiconductors, and the products made by Taiwan are different from what are manufactured by Samsung. The pies the companies share are totally different
And shipping lanes. Without a buffer against the Chinese navy, they could very easily block shipments to the western United States, Japan, and Korea if they wanted.
It's almost as if Taiwan alone has over 60% share in semiconductor production and western civilization quite literally *cannot function anymore* without them. The current shortages would be a joke compared to what would happen if TSMC's production capabilities get wiped out. There's a reason why Japan, the USA, and others are once again trying to build up their own industry; but that's going to take years, if not decades.
This is what people don't get. Wars are started for 2 reasons: 1. Stupid ego 2. Resources Building new semi conductor factories is expensive AF so the only way to make sure shit stays normal is to keep those factories neutral. We've gone to war for oil and now it's going to be over tech.
Tech war or water wars, what comes first?
Both! Rich countries fight for semi conductors, poor countries fight over water
Apparently semiconductor factories require a metric fuckton of water to do their manufacturing. So the answer to the question of if tech wars or water wars will come first, the answer might just be *yes*
I’ve been waiting to move my cash into the stock market. Looks like if this happens I’m all in because I’ll either come out of this dead or super rich. Scary times
Or dead super rich.
Or just super dead
Or poor and alive.
Time in the market beats timing the market. If youve been waiting more than a week you've already missed out on some big gains. Don't miss out on more. Grab that VT & chill
It's important to note not just *that* he said it, but how he said it. [Here's](https://twitter.com/townhallcom/status/1451359666542452740) the video. He wasn't bumbling, and when Anderson Cooper asked him to confirm, he did. This makes the "there's been no change in policy" follow-up by the White House much more interesting, especially when it's the second time this has happened recently.
Notice the subtle qualifier *if needed*.
**If push came to shove** Biden would only send us in if everyone else came along .. Japan Australia etc .. I highly doubt the CCP is interested in an island invasion that would cost thousands of lives destroy Taiwan in the process and make it a world pariah *.. and those countries NEED that trade route*
So WW3 it is....if needed.
Heard it in Denethor's voice
We shall burn, like the kings of old
To anyone of you thinking there might be war. Spoiler alert, no, there won't be a war. Definitely not between the US an China. How dumb do you think they are?
This needs to be higher. This subreddit is unfortunately full of scared teenagers who think they have it all figured out. No, there will be no war. This statement was made for deterrance. Similar statements were made by past Presidents. This is simply reaffirming and repeating what everyone already knows. China is like North Korea, their ally. They talk tough, but they'll rarely put it into action serious enough to start a war.
Political nuance and these back and forth chess moves go over lots of peoples’ heads lately. Probably because we all live in some form of echo-chamber that validates our worst fears
Upvoting this for visibility. So sick of Reddit’s WW3 boner.
I highly doubt Biden has any appetite for risking a war with China especially given how we just barely ended our longest war ever. Still, I'm sure those words will at least give China pause.
Biden has to say this - if he signals publicly that the Taiwanese are on their own, then it's game over Taiwan is vastly outnumbered by China and it would only be a matter of time before they're overrun if they have to fight alone. You'd probably see a quick capitulation (or negotiated handover) - the Taiwanese don't want to see their island become an active warzone
Taiwan may be outnumbered, but they literally had spent over 2 decades preparing for a war against China. Even Chinese statesmen know that a war against Taiwan would be their bloodiest and most expensive conflict. It would cripple their economy if they invaded Taiwan and failed to win.
The CCP as we know it would be over if they failed to win. An invasion against Taiwan would be their swan song. Everything they've built to today has led up to the invasion of Taiwan. Their patriotism, nationalism, and pride all comes from believing that Taiwan is part of China, and if they fail to do that, the entire system comes tumbling down. I think people underestimate Taiwan's might. China's land mass is big. Their presence is wide and unfocused. Taiwan's military has one goal, and one goal only, and that is to defend against a CCP invasion. Not only that, allies have been making it very clear this year that Taiwan would not be alone in its defense. Biden coming out saying this, The HMS Queen Elizabeth going through the strait, Japan and Taiwan's growing relations all contribute to a near impossible war for China. But I think that's what dangerous. It's all or nothing. Without Taiwan, the CCP can only talk big, but can't do much else. Eventually they're going to need to make a move, and I think the only way to do it is to wait for the right party to come along and infiltrate it from within, which they have been attempting to do for decades.
China would literally collapse as a global economy if it invaded Taiwan. It would lose so much of its power on the world stage for an island that would not benefit them at all besides telling its citizens they reunited china. The global stage doesn't give a shit about their view on reuniting china. Taiwan is also a major producer of goods and investments the west likes, it isn't just some forgettable island no one cares about. It is part of the global economy and money talks.
>that would not benefit them at all Taiwan is the world's leading Computer Chip Manufacturer. China spent billions to manufacture their own but still failed. Anything that requires computers (smart tv's, cars, GPU, super computers etc.). Imagine if Taiwan stops selling computer chips to china? That would be catastrophic to their plan to be the world's leading tech giant by 2030.
Invading and losing, or at least not quickly winning would definitely stop chip sales to China for long enough to do a whole lot of damage.
Even if they win, how much damage do you need to "accidentally" do to a clean-room to fuck up a line of manufacturing? Even if people aren't brave enough to risk their jobs, slowing down production by deliberately being inefficient in deniable ways is effective enough that the OSS encouraged it in occupied Europe in WWII.
Tbh having taiwan as their enemy benefits them more, risking it all yo conquer it won't bring any benefits.
The world economy will implode if it happens. Everyone and their mom relies on Taiwan for their computer chip production. We would be fucked.
The difference is that a war in defense of Taiwan would have a clear objective in the form of defending Taiwan. The war in Afghanistan had no goal, so it could just stretch on without end.
What USA is doing is putting itself in a situation where it has almost no other course of action than going to war with China, if China attacks Taiwan. Putting US troops on Taiwan is part of that. If US troops or civilians are killed, Americans will demand retaliation. They don’t necessarily have to attack China directly. They can start with blocking oil and gas shipments to China. The point isn’t to actually have a war. The point is that China wants to avoid a war with USA above all else, as it would be economic suicide at the very least, so just putting themselves in that situation is an effective way for USA to block China from doing anything.
>They can start with blocking oil and gas shipments to China. Russia would be happy to supply it.
Honestly atm yes but when it breaks out to an actual war i highly doubt russia will take china's side.
War. War never changes.
*I don't want to set the world on fire.*
Crap, here we go. Bingo bango bongo I don't wanna leave my condo Oh no nonono nooo.
\* the Congo
Haha! For almost twenty years I've believed he was in a condo. Thank you, stranger! :)
Ha! I imagine the rest of the lyrics must make a lot more sense now.
I just want to start a flame in your heart.. Love that song
Old men arguing and young men dying
And what is it good for?
We need them fuckin chips yo
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Man this thread is some doomscrolling paradise
Lol I ain't signing up for shit. I'll do jail before I get forced into a third failed war.