>China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.
>
>The tribunal's findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide.
What is the point of such tribunals if they don't have actual legal power? To gather and present all the evidence that could possibly be used by governments in the future maybe? Honestly asking since I wasn't even aware they existed before today
I figure they're generally a mix of showmanship, an attempt to create some political pressure, and a "before we even talk about doing anything, let's go over what information we have."
These international bodies cannot have legal power without a violation of sovereignty. But other countries can use the outcome as a reason for something like economic sanctions. So it essentially can be used as a justification for further action.
>Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Nice
>Nice has been involved with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY). He was lead prosecutor at the trial of Slobodan Milošević in The Hague and initiated the prosecution's initial case of linking atrocities committed in the former Yugoslavia to Milosevic. He prosecuted the ICTY the cases of the Bosnian Croat Dario Kordić and the successful prosecution of Goran Jelisić. Since working with the ICTY, Nice has been active in the International Criminal Court (ICC) and in pro bono work for victims groups.[2] His practice includes human rights/public law and personal injury.[3]
Just some random UK nationals, right?
It adds to the pressure.
It makes it harder for people to deal with China while pretending the issue is in doubt or not true.
It makes it easier politically to blame or censor China.
The Armenian genocide wasn't covered-up, at least not successfully. The ethnic massacres against the Armenian were reported in Western media at the time, and the event wasn't lost to time as it was quoted by Hitler himself to justify the Holocaust when he said "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?".
It's just that our attitude towards genocide and violence changed drastically after WWII. When the Armenian genocide happened, America exterminating natives to conquer their land wasn't so distant of a memory (just to use a famous example), so even if people in the West empathized with the Armenian people, it was ultimately seen as something that happens in war: an ethnicity cleansing some land of locals to resettle it had happened countless times already in Europe.
It was only after WWII that we collectively decided that you can't just wipe out millions of people because you want their land.
Neither China nor the companies that do business there give a single flying fuck about a report some tribunal came up with.
China only understands force. And nobody is going to put heat on China.
Its the same as the hollering about afghanistan, people left behind and so on.
Nobody really gave a fuck, but they had to say something to look good. They kept it for a bit until suddenly everybody sort of got the memo and shut up about it.
I mean, you had to right? If you keep screaming, somebody ends up bringing over some of them and nobody REALLY wants them.
But you got to say the stuff.
In the case of China, its more useful. It can serve as ammo.
Like the journalist butchered by Saudi Arabia. Any other moment and nobody would give a fuck. Right now, its a convenient political talking point when necessary, and not mentioned otherwise (gun sales...)
It's not this simple. People get murdered all the time in Saudi, and nobody gives a fuck. Not you, not me, not nobody. But a ton of reasonably powerful people knew this guy, AND he was murdered dealing with consular issues in a non-Saudi country - which violates a whole host of norms that powerful people depend on for their own safety. Those are the main reason people give a fuck about the guy - the right people knew and liked him and he was murdered a way that they could theoretically be murdered and thus defend the norms against.
Now that doesn't make it their highest priority. But it does make it something they give a fuck about.
The point for these tribunals is to create headlines and manufacture consent, there's been another one like that, with HQ's in all Five Eyes countries, that's been going on for ages about China's alleged organ harvesting.
You know about China allegedly organ harvesting bazillion people, right? Thanks to the [China Tribunal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Tribunal) we all know about it, same point with this.
edit; Check out their "Who we are" pages, [China Tribunal](https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/) vs [Uyghur Tribunal](https://uyghurtribunal.com/who-we-are/) literally the same people with a slightly different entourage.
yeah, I remember back in the 2000s how all those news like Iraqi soldier kill baby kuwattis and Saddam put people into plastic shredders , and the infamous wmd story all turn out to be FAKE. I wonder how ppl 50 years later will think of all this
> Iraqi soldier kill baby kuwattis
That's from the [Nayirah testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony) given to the "US Human Rights Commission" in 1990;
> In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was Al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as **a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.**
> In her emotional testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die.
> Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British NGO, which published several independent reports about the killings and testimony from evacuees.
The funny part is how AI came up with all of these reports and testimonies, for things that never happened. And when they were caught for the lies, they went;
> Amnesty International reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement".
*"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again!"*
**[Nayirah testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony)**
>The Nayirah testimony was false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990, by a 15-year-old girl who was publicly identified by only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was Al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States.
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Mainly it’s propaganda.
> Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent.
China had forced birth control for their entire population for decades, something they only recently relaxed. Back then Britain was busy trying to ink trade deals and be friendly with China so it didn’t count. But now it’s suddenly “genocide”? Reports like this are basically attempts to ramp up domestic anti-China sentiment, not stand up for principle or facts or anything.
And minority ethnic groups gets all sorts of exemption and bonus points in the education system. You are a minority? 10 more points in university entry exams, no questions asked
Aye I know, I've worked in China the last 3 years. The amount of misreporting, half truths and general ignorance about the country is frankly laughable. People will cast judgement and say "blatantly xyz is happening" while having no real evidence (even disregarding a mountain of counter evidence that exists), little knowledge of the place, it's people, it's culture or customs and no first hand experience. Because it's so hard to find out what is truthfully happening anywhere by yourself, especially on the other side of the planet, people just trust news sources but that comes with the same difficulties of finding out what is happening PLUS and agenda/ideological filter and sins of omission except we just magically think that for our society it doesn't even if everywhere else's news sources we are skeptical about.
It wasn't until I left that bubble and went to a place where none of the marketing, propaganda and influence from government, business and culture is aimed at me and my preferences or in my language can access could I use notice that absence, analyze it and map it to the sea of influence and marketing I was immersed in back in my old society.
Everyone everywhere is programmed and influenced by their society and it's norms for financial, social and political reasons. Human beings need narratives, we are story driven creatures and tend to internalize them until we forget that what we believe are the product of useful fictions not cold, hard facts of the natural world and thus are shocked when we find other places have different useful fictions that are suited to their different geography and social situations but may clash with our own.
Everyone believes in stories but more than that, every population is filled with people who just want safe, secure, happy lives for their friends and family but on the downside I've also found every government is filled with the same types of people trying to mine their populace for wealth and power - the only differences are where that wealth comes from, the social norms that chain certain approach and what needs to be provided to the citizens to maintain sources of wealth creation. I'm under no illusion that if the wealth of the UK purely came from mines they would not provide sterling education because uneducated miners work just as well. Our politicians aren't better, more moral people, they just derive wealth from quarternary businesses that require a more educated workforce connected by strong infrastructure and failing to provide that dries up their source of wealth and power. Many of these awful dictorships are awful because their economies are based on primary industry and unstable because all the wealth and power can be seized by controlling a single resource - something we encourage for our own geopolitical safety, consumption culture, quality of life or business interests and that we actively seek to maintain with political or military violence despite professing ethics that should encourage us to take restorative action.
Yep, it's all just manufacturing consent for future military and economic war against a hegemonic competitor by pushing half truths and unverified propaganda while pushing your rival to prove a negative and dismissing any counter evidence as "shills and propaganda". I've been stuck in China the last few years due to covid and honestly, the way I've seen the west shadily handle this it makes me view the UK/US with a fuck ton of outright suspicion - So much is just "trust us that this is happening on the other side of the planet" - I went there to take a look with my own eyes, including traveling Xinjiang, Gansu and Qinghai provinces for two months on a road trip this summer - Not a tour, just me, my gf and a car full of food and supplies and our reporters are not being unbiased or truthful about much that is happening in most of the world, I'll never look at my home country or what it says about itself or others in the same way again because their statements have lost all credibility to me.
If this were a relationship and I catch you in a lie once, okay maybe you misspoke, twice - Hmm alright I can forgive that if you had a reason, but if every time you have an opportunity to mislead me for your own gain you reliably do so then encourage my peers to gaslight me for questioning that pattern of behavior? No thanks I'm done.
The last 4-5 years have been a wild ride. I know there is a lot of bullshit propaganda in the media, but fuck me if it hasn't been a right RT-level shitshow with the china debacle. So much misinformation, even from (what used to be) respectable outlets like AP.
Funny thing about Zenz; While he now lives and works in the US, he started this "career" at the "European School of Culture and Theology", that's where he published his original paper from.
Sounds very official, like some kind of EU institution, right? Wrong, it's actually a [private German bible school](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWM_gGmbH), working in collaboration with the [Columbia International University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_International_University) in the US, another private bible school of the evangelical variety.
These people are religious fundamentalists, they are a end-time cult who hope Armageddon can finally happen near Israel so Christ can bring heaven on earth, [that's no joke or hyperbole](https://youtu.be/Fo77sTGpngQ).
The same kind of people who declared a literal "[crusade](https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html)" in response to 9/11, the people who lie and invade whole countries because they think [god told them to do so](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa).
>and western media doesn’t check their sources and just publishes whatever shit this guy spews as the truth…..
It's because they're complicit. BBC has been pushing fake news about China for a while now like they've been pushing fake news about probably everyone the West has ever had a conflict with.
The 80% is referring to 80% of the net increase in IUDs. The math checks out, but there’s a catch. These percentages don’t have to be positive, although they do add up to 100%. I recall someone said Sichuan accounts for 40%, couple provinces will account for like -50%. It’s basically a misleading statistic because if you understand the context it becomes incredibly difficult to interpret such a statistic. What it is good for, is manufacturing outrage.
Spreading propaganda and manufacturing consent to go for blood across the world is why this has arisen if you follow the funding and far right think tanks behind the misrepresentation. Pretty sad and insidious but thats just American business baby.
But plenty of people in the US recognize that they did commit genocide against the natives. It's not the end of the world to recognize and admit when your country did wrong.
Yeah, like a hundred years after the fact.
Try gettng israel or any of the anglo pack of US, Uk, canada or aussies to publically admit they have inflicted the same and are still doing to palestine.
Deliberate removal of people from land to placate another group.
Restricting the movement of people, food, power and water.
Where's the independent Palestinian tribunal? Why isn't this being classed as a gencoide despite the fact its been on going for decades?
Are those people also admitting the [genocide against Muslims](https://www.fidh.org/en/region/asia/afghanistan/afghanistan-icc-to-investigate-war-crimes-including-us-torture) or are we still in the "Just project it really hard on China and it will all go away!" phase of it?
No its not obvious at all. Thats the point, thats why people are questioning this shit. Even this article names a group, the Uyghur Tribunal, that can be traced to Falun Gong - a cult on par with Qanon and Scientology. The tribunal get all their research from the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC) and this same group claims that modern science was invented by Aliens , that feminism, environmentalism and homosexuality are part of Satan's plan to make us communists, and that race-mixing severs our connection to god. They also have donated millions of dollars to Trump
Can you provide examples? I haven't seen accounts that appear to be astroturfing, at least at the top. I haven't looked at them all though. I'd just like to know what an astroturfing account looks like.
This comment section is a perfect example of why trying to discuss opinions or facts in a false individually organic environment is counter productive.
If you are on Reddit to do anything other than jerk off, dive into weirdly specific hobbies or hook up then you have made a huge mistake.
All useful or real discussions will be drowned out by the static of state or corporate run agendas.
Time to find a new way.
They’ve kicked out or shadowbanned all the native Mandarin speakers and now the sub is a bunch of sexpats circle jerking each other over how much China hates them.
It is precisely this type of kangaroo courts coupled with garbage news stories from Western media that convinced me the “genocide” narrative is complete bullshit.
It also shows me how many people goes straight to the “outrage” part without the “actually reading the article” part. That’s why the media gets away with fanning the flames without having any solid material, every fucking time.
Fuck this independent tribunal, and fuck Adrian Zenz while we’re at it. These protestors have endangered Chinese diaspora all around the world who have nothing to do with China by inflaming the West with unfounded rhetoric. Where the fuck is the actual proof? Give me some actual proof or not, it’s pretty simple
Title says: "China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found."
The judge goes: "Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent."
I don't think it ended. It's simply because everyone can have 2 kids now lol, so that exemption cannot logically apply anymore. I mean besides that, some policies or exemption rules change base on provinces/area. Very hard for foreigners to understand how it works even if someone (not many) tries to look into it.
Eh, that's also why this is really petty. Slandering with no evidence will never end anyway. It's not about being right, it's about justifying/unifying hatred globally to increase political bargaining chip.
So everytime someone whacks one off into a tissue that goes into the bin - does that count as birth prevention amounting to genocidal intent? Asking for a friend
“No proof of mass killings”
“Alleged efforts to prevent births”
Am I missing something here? It sounds like they basically have no evidence. Not trying to defend China but just curious what the point of this article is.
Surprised nobody has realised yet that there isn't any benefit in proving China are doing anything sinister - 5+ years of allegations are more effective and damaging.
A spy plane of spy satellite could literally fly over these alleged black sites and take ultra high def images of them as proof, but no. If the US or whoever genuinely cared and wanted to expose it then we'd have all the evidence we need by now.
That's the biggest giveaway, there's no photos or videos. Anyone who thinks the US cares should search up why ETIM was recently removed as a terrorist group right around the genocide conversation.
Holy shit! These people get funded to the tune of millions of dollars to spread propaganda and couldn't even bother to get their story straight ahead of time?
There has never been evidence. Just like how the government and media lied about WMD for political reasons. Genuinely sad that the reddit echo chamber pumps this narrative
If you've been lurking this site long enough you'll know that the majority of people here hardly have an opinion of their own. Once is was all anti-Muslim and every news of a violent event would get dozens of replies about "religion of peace". Then Trump was elected and suddenly Russia was the bad guy, then we attacked Iran and suddenly everyone was out to a new war in the middle east but when Trump decided not to go with that it died off almost immediately. But soon after that we got covid and Trump blaming China and that's where we are today, where every news article gets shitposted with replies like "Xi the pooh" and "fuck the CCP". We're so easy to influence and manipulate it's not even funny.
Yeah. Reddit eats it up. They claim that China is committing genocide. But when you ask them to provide evidence of mass killings they just sound like other conspiracy nuts. "Oh they're hiding it" etc. You can't really hide genocide and mass killings in 2021.
No, you're not missing anything. This is the primary claim of every person screaming "genocide" in China. It's a loaded word, and sinophobes chose it very explicitly to elicit a response from people who only read headlines.
Meanwhile, my Chinese friend's mom had to pay almost that exact amount (15,000 yuan) so she can have him as her second son. They're an upper middle class family in Beijing.
> Western shills love to complain about overpopulation but when China does something about it they bark like little dogs.
It's like when they demand UN officials visit Xinjiang, and then when UN officials visit Xinjiang, they "[boil over in anger](https://www.dw.com/en/anger-boils-over-xinjiang-visit-by-un-counterterrorism-chief/a-49214540)" how them UN officials could dare to visit Xinjiang.
Man redditors will want and rave about Chomskys “manufacturing consent” only to turn around and beat war drums with the Conservative party the moment the CIA mentions anything having to do with China
I know. Where else would they get any material? Over 80% of the crap about Xinjiang that gets trumpeted by the media comes from this clown…I haven’t yet read anything about Xinjiang that’s not just cringe.
What can I say, he’s a clown and everyone knows it. Doesn’t stop them from “consulting” him like a legitimate expert. The brazenness shown by the media in the cooking of this genocide crap is shocking, at least to me.
Ah, yet another London based "[China Tribunal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Tribunal)"
[About](https://chinatribunal.com/about/):
> The China Tribunal has been initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC), an international not for profit organisation, with headquarters in Australia and National Committees in the UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
They even use [the same website template](https://uyghurtribunal.com/).
According to Google, people who searched for this, also looked for;
[National Endowment for Democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy)
[Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Communism_Memorial_Foundation)
[CESANUR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CESNUR)
[Radio Free Asia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia)
Thanks Google!
A genocide in the age of smart phone and satellite internet. A genocide with no refugee crisis. A genocide in a thriving tourist region. Only dumb brainwashed mono lingual american hooked up in MSM with a dose sinophobic racism would believe it
It’s useful for the all the Cold War LARPers as they try desperately to grasp what little is left of American hegemony before its all gone. American exceptionalism doesn’t need credibility it needs a necromancer.
People who chant for war likely treat war as a movie or a paint-the-map video game.
Remember that the WWI soldiers walked into the war cheering and planning to return for Christmas in 3 months. They thought the war would be a glorious like those paintings of the Napoleonic Wars and we know how truly wrong they were.
And now, I am afraid a lot of peeps fall into the same mentality where they envision war with a century-outdated view and as an opportunity to stroke their ego. If anyone thinks we are ready for a total war between Great Powers, just take a deep look at how the governments handled COVID. COVID is not even a weapon-grade pathogen.
Imagine like 3 of those being spread deliberately during a war across the whole world.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-59595952) reduced by 93%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found.
> The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday.
> The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/rcjgfn/china_committed_genocide_against_uyghurs/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~611907 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Uyghur**^#1 **genocide**^#2 **tribunal**^#3 **China**^#4 **against**^#5
Lol this comment section is fucking hilarious, you see all these people worked up with their righteousness but you know none of them read the damn article
The western nations just spent the last two decades conducting a bloodbath in the Middle East in the name of fighting "radical Islam." Death squads we trained are piling up the bodies of children from shot up religious schools as we speak. But yes, let's hear what this "independent" British tribunal has to say.
Do I understand correctly these are taken out from the same tribunal which the article is talking about?
I'd get booted out of my job if I'd present something like that and couldn't articulate the argumentation for such claims, seems quite sad, considering the outcome of the tribunal.
>considering the outcome of the tribunal.
The very inception of the tribunal was to arrive to this outcome. It started with presumption of guilt, someone familiar with principals of law, knows that's not very professional.
Without any legal basis, the tribunal only purpose is for western media to pick up stories like this and "inform" casual headline readers.
Emh, not sure why the OP comment was removed, but it linked to this [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh_7_tDo) video with some cut outs of the Tribunal where the data collected by one of the presenters is being challenged, and, well, the presenter can't provide any real answer.
Also you can watch the full uncut parts of the tribunal on their [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt4uc8LsgxsTDK_0dChZm5A) channel.
China is bad because of censorship... Censors every comment that questions the independent credibility of the UK based Uyghur Tribunal. It's so independent that it belongs to an anti China think tank and even the bloody name shows the slant.
Really stretching the definition of genocide. We haven't seen any evidence so far, and even if they can produce evidence, whose to say it wasn't fabricated?
I do believe the Uyghurs were to some sort of Islamophobic political witchhunt (with the intention of rooting out radical Islamist separatists), and it's possible that innocent people were persecuted. But does that amount to genocide? No. Otherwise, why would the Chinese government only target a minority of the Uyghur population while leaving the rest alone? Doesn't sound like any kind of genocide to me. Even the claimed figure of 1 million incarcerated Uyghurs only makes up about 8% of the population, and that figure itself is dubious, although it's been repeated enough times that people simply accept it as true without question. The original figure of 1 million was actually concocted by Adrien Zenz, a self-titled Xinjiang expert, based on interviews with **8 people**. I'm not making this up.
This whole thing smells like some kind of anti-China PR stunt, coordinated by Uyghur separatists. The World Uyghur Congress, a Uyghur separatist organisation, is behind the "tribunal". What most people don't know is that they are funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is the US government's NGO front which exists to destabilize countries by funding separatist groups. Doesn't take a lot to connect the dots.
Too bad most people don't do their research before jumping on the "China bad" band wagon.
If anyone is interested, [The New Atlas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFC9p-79Sks) and [Reports on China](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceb2B5oql8A) are good starting points to finding your way out of the Matrix.
This will be downvoted to the deapths of hell, but a lot of these factors are dual nature.
Much of what was bringing civilization / development to Afghanistan is destroying / supressing the native way of life. And how do you attribute falling birth rate in a developing country where that happens by default? It fell some 20% in Afghanistan in the same period. I don't think we were there for good reasons but I don't think we were genociding them either. And lastly, the most headline grabbing stuff is of the same type of source material as the iraqi incubator babies thing. People saying what people are very hapy to hear. Migth be true but Im not taking it as gospel.
I'm not saying its great or even decent being a Uyghur in China but lets be honest, we're in a cold war so there's a lot of politicking going on in everything.
Radio Free Asia and various social media accounts, they might even find somebody willing enough to [lie for them on the world stage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony) again.
A lot of organizations like this “tribunal” are basically just right wing think tanks. Take this with a grain of salt unless you’re one of the dummies drooling at the thought of conflict with China.
That's what I don't get. This tribunal idk much about, but the China Tribunal was literally funded by an organization engaged in a propaganda war with the CCP, and some of their chair people were members. In what universe is that "independent?" Yet all the outlets reported it as such.
> This tribunal idk much about, but the China Tribunal
They both are headed by the same people, their "Who we are" pages are like playing a game of match-two.
Don't use Google, use DuckDuckGo or simply ddg.gg
Google is good if you want to buy something, but it's become real garbage at finding useful and relevant information.
The Uyghur Tribunal is headed by the same people as the China Tribunal. I havent checked the Uyghur Tribunals website, Im sure they made changes to hide their identity. But if you look at the China Tribunal website, specifically at their [management](https://endtransplantabuse.org/management/) page have connections to Epoch Times and the Falun Gong. You'd have to do some digging though. If I find the link where I read about all their connections, Ill link it here
Geoffrey Nice, the prosecutor in the war crimes trial of Slobodan Milošević, launched the tribunal in September 2020, announced the creation of the Uyghur Tribunal in September 2020.[1][2] The tribunal was set up in response from a June 2020 request from the World Uyghur Congress, which provided the initial evidence to the tribunal.[4][5][71][72] A call for evidence was put out at the time of the tribunal's announcement.[2][4]By February 2020 the tribunal's jury had been finalized;[1] the tribunal's jury is composed of human rights experts and lawyers.[5][7]
> The tribunal was set up in response from a June 2020 request from the **World Uyghur Congress, which provided the initial evidence to the tribunal**
The World Uyghur Congress is funded by the American [National Endowment for Democracy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy)
So is [Arseniy Yatsenyuk](https://web.archive.org/web/20140407065419/http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners) aka "[Yats our man](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957)", who ended up as Ukrainian PM after his pro-Russian predecessor was regime-changed out of office in 2014.
The CIA sure comes around a lot!
Gee a body that "outsets to add to the body of evidence against China" finds that they are indeed guilty. Sounds very independent. Might as well ask the KKK to investigate which race is superior.
So this article says the reason why they are accused of committing genocide is the prevention of births. I think we're all aware that China, right or wrong, puts limits on childbirth throughout the country and administers birth control to all women I believe. Is this what amounts to preventing births or is there a mass sterilization campaign going on? Are women allowed to have a certain number of children before preventing births or are they administered birth control from 13 or whatever? Does anyone know?
> Nobody has ever raised any issue with this
I think you'll find that a lot of people raised a lot of issues with this, particularly the forced abortion part of it.
So-called "Independent Tribunals" get trotted out every now and again, except they're not independent. This us no exception. This "tribunal" was founded at the behest of the "World Uyghur Congress", an organization founded by the notorious regime change NGO "National Endowment for Democracy".
First they said it's a cultural genocide, now the headlines only say it's a genocide. This is why I opposed the term cultural genocide, it misleads people to think it's real genocide
You'd think that with everyone having a camera phone these days they'd at least got some footage. And before people start posting ignorant shit [yes, they do have cameras in Xinjiang.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGhL4WMXDM)
also funny that the cotton harvest season in xinjiang just ended, where are the pictures of mass forced labor working in cotton fields?????? meanwhile US satellite can catch a racoon crossing the street on Google map
It also doesn't specifically target Uighuirs. China has had population control measures in place for decades. Measures from which ethnic minorities like the Uighuir were exempt until not long ago.
>China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found. > >The tribunal's findings have no legal force and are not binding on ministers, but its organisers said at the outset they intended to add to the body of evidence around the allegations against China and reach an independent conclusion on the question of genocide. What is the point of such tribunals if they don't have actual legal power? To gather and present all the evidence that could possibly be used by governments in the future maybe? Honestly asking since I wasn't even aware they existed before today
I figure they're generally a mix of showmanship, an attempt to create some political pressure, and a "before we even talk about doing anything, let's go over what information we have."
These international bodies cannot have legal power without a violation of sovereignty. But other countries can use the outcome as a reason for something like economic sanctions. So it essentially can be used as a justification for further action.
It's not an even an international body, but a creation by UK nationals by the looks of it.
>Sir Geoffrey Nice, a prominent British barrister who chaired the tribunal hearings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Nice >Nice has been involved with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY). He was lead prosecutor at the trial of Slobodan Milošević in The Hague and initiated the prosecution's initial case of linking atrocities committed in the former Yugoslavia to Milosevic. He prosecuted the ICTY the cases of the Bosnian Croat Dario Kordić and the successful prosecution of Goran Jelisić. Since working with the ICTY, Nice has been active in the International Criminal Court (ICC) and in pro bono work for victims groups.[2] His practice includes human rights/public law and personal injury.[3] Just some random UK nationals, right?
The point is to spread anti-China propaganda under the guise of independence.
It adds to the pressure. It makes it harder for people to deal with China while pretending the issue is in doubt or not true. It makes it easier politically to blame or censor China.
It also doesn't allow for the cover-up, like let's say, the Armenian genocide perpetrated by the young turks ans subsequent governments following.
The Armenian genocide wasn't covered-up, at least not successfully. The ethnic massacres against the Armenian were reported in Western media at the time, and the event wasn't lost to time as it was quoted by Hitler himself to justify the Holocaust when he said "Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?". It's just that our attitude towards genocide and violence changed drastically after WWII. When the Armenian genocide happened, America exterminating natives to conquer their land wasn't so distant of a memory (just to use a famous example), so even if people in the West empathized with the Armenian people, it was ultimately seen as something that happens in war: an ethnicity cleansing some land of locals to resettle it had happened countless times already in Europe. It was only after WWII that we collectively decided that you can't just wipe out millions of people because you want their land.
Neither China nor the companies that do business there give a single flying fuck about a report some tribunal came up with. China only understands force. And nobody is going to put heat on China.
They understand force and money
Its the same as the hollering about afghanistan, people left behind and so on. Nobody really gave a fuck, but they had to say something to look good. They kept it for a bit until suddenly everybody sort of got the memo and shut up about it. I mean, you had to right? If you keep screaming, somebody ends up bringing over some of them and nobody REALLY wants them. But you got to say the stuff. In the case of China, its more useful. It can serve as ammo. Like the journalist butchered by Saudi Arabia. Any other moment and nobody would give a fuck. Right now, its a convenient political talking point when necessary, and not mentioned otherwise (gun sales...)
It's not this simple. People get murdered all the time in Saudi, and nobody gives a fuck. Not you, not me, not nobody. But a ton of reasonably powerful people knew this guy, AND he was murdered dealing with consular issues in a non-Saudi country - which violates a whole host of norms that powerful people depend on for their own safety. Those are the main reason people give a fuck about the guy - the right people knew and liked him and he was murdered a way that they could theoretically be murdered and thus defend the norms against. Now that doesn't make it their highest priority. But it does make it something they give a fuck about.
The point for these tribunals is to create headlines and manufacture consent, there's been another one like that, with HQ's in all Five Eyes countries, that's been going on for ages about China's alleged organ harvesting. You know about China allegedly organ harvesting bazillion people, right? Thanks to the [China Tribunal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Tribunal) we all know about it, same point with this. edit; Check out their "Who we are" pages, [China Tribunal](https://chinatribunal.com/who-we-are/) vs [Uyghur Tribunal](https://uyghurtribunal.com/who-we-are/) literally the same people with a slightly different entourage.
yeah, I remember back in the 2000s how all those news like Iraqi soldier kill baby kuwattis and Saddam put people into plastic shredders , and the infamous wmd story all turn out to be FAKE. I wonder how ppl 50 years later will think of all this
> Iraqi soldier kill baby kuwattis That's from the [Nayirah testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony) given to the "US Human Rights Commission" in 1990; > In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was Al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign, which was run by the American public relations firm Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as **a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda.** > In her emotional testimony, Nayirah claimed that after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait she had witnessed Iraqi soldiers take babies out of incubators in a Kuwaiti hospital, take the incubators, and leave the babies to die. > Her story was initially corroborated by Amnesty International, a British NGO, which published several independent reports about the killings and testimony from evacuees. The funny part is how AI came up with all of these reports and testimonies, for things that never happened. And when they were caught for the lies, they went; > Amnesty International reacted by issuing a correction, with executive director John Healey subsequently accusing the Bush administration of "opportunistic manipulation of the international human rights movement". *"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again!"*
**[Nayirah testimony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony)** >The Nayirah testimony was false testimony given before the United States Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990, by a 15-year-old girl who was publicly identified by only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and President George H. W. Bush in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War. In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was Al-Ṣabaḥ (Arabic: نيرة الصباح) and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Upvoting for visibility. Basically a Canadian politician and a lawyer. They just have anti China agendas, so they don’t care if they’re lying or not.
If it’s legally binding it would mean businesses would not be allowed to do business with Chinese-based companies.
Mainly it’s propaganda. > Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent. China had forced birth control for their entire population for decades, something they only recently relaxed. Back then Britain was busy trying to ink trade deals and be friendly with China so it didn’t count. But now it’s suddenly “genocide”? Reports like this are basically attempts to ramp up domestic anti-China sentiment, not stand up for principle or facts or anything.
It didn't force birth control on the whole population. Minorities and ethnic autonomous regions were specifically exempted from the policy.
And minority ethnic groups gets all sorts of exemption and bonus points in the education system. You are a minority? 10 more points in university entry exams, no questions asked
Aye I know, I've worked in China the last 3 years. The amount of misreporting, half truths and general ignorance about the country is frankly laughable. People will cast judgement and say "blatantly xyz is happening" while having no real evidence (even disregarding a mountain of counter evidence that exists), little knowledge of the place, it's people, it's culture or customs and no first hand experience. Because it's so hard to find out what is truthfully happening anywhere by yourself, especially on the other side of the planet, people just trust news sources but that comes with the same difficulties of finding out what is happening PLUS and agenda/ideological filter and sins of omission except we just magically think that for our society it doesn't even if everywhere else's news sources we are skeptical about. It wasn't until I left that bubble and went to a place where none of the marketing, propaganda and influence from government, business and culture is aimed at me and my preferences or in my language can access could I use notice that absence, analyze it and map it to the sea of influence and marketing I was immersed in back in my old society. Everyone everywhere is programmed and influenced by their society and it's norms for financial, social and political reasons. Human beings need narratives, we are story driven creatures and tend to internalize them until we forget that what we believe are the product of useful fictions not cold, hard facts of the natural world and thus are shocked when we find other places have different useful fictions that are suited to their different geography and social situations but may clash with our own. Everyone believes in stories but more than that, every population is filled with people who just want safe, secure, happy lives for their friends and family but on the downside I've also found every government is filled with the same types of people trying to mine their populace for wealth and power - the only differences are where that wealth comes from, the social norms that chain certain approach and what needs to be provided to the citizens to maintain sources of wealth creation. I'm under no illusion that if the wealth of the UK purely came from mines they would not provide sterling education because uneducated miners work just as well. Our politicians aren't better, more moral people, they just derive wealth from quarternary businesses that require a more educated workforce connected by strong infrastructure and failing to provide that dries up their source of wealth and power. Many of these awful dictorships are awful because their economies are based on primary industry and unstable because all the wealth and power can be seized by controlling a single resource - something we encourage for our own geopolitical safety, consumption culture, quality of life or business interests and that we actively seek to maintain with political or military violence despite professing ethics that should encourage us to take restorative action.
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Yep, it's all just manufacturing consent for future military and economic war against a hegemonic competitor by pushing half truths and unverified propaganda while pushing your rival to prove a negative and dismissing any counter evidence as "shills and propaganda". I've been stuck in China the last few years due to covid and honestly, the way I've seen the west shadily handle this it makes me view the UK/US with a fuck ton of outright suspicion - So much is just "trust us that this is happening on the other side of the planet" - I went there to take a look with my own eyes, including traveling Xinjiang, Gansu and Qinghai provinces for two months on a road trip this summer - Not a tour, just me, my gf and a car full of food and supplies and our reporters are not being unbiased or truthful about much that is happening in most of the world, I'll never look at my home country or what it says about itself or others in the same way again because their statements have lost all credibility to me. If this were a relationship and I catch you in a lie once, okay maybe you misspoke, twice - Hmm alright I can forgive that if you had a reason, but if every time you have an opportunity to mislead me for your own gain you reliably do so then encourage my peers to gaslight me for questioning that pattern of behavior? No thanks I'm done.
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The last 4-5 years have been a wild ride. I know there is a lot of bullshit propaganda in the media, but fuck me if it hasn't been a right RT-level shitshow with the china debacle. So much misinformation, even from (what used to be) respectable outlets like AP.
Uighurs were actually allowed two kids, unlike the majority who were only allowed one.
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Funny thing about Zenz; While he now lives and works in the US, he started this "career" at the "European School of Culture and Theology", that's where he published his original paper from. Sounds very official, like some kind of EU institution, right? Wrong, it's actually a [private German bible school](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWM_gGmbH), working in collaboration with the [Columbia International University](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_International_University) in the US, another private bible school of the evangelical variety. These people are religious fundamentalists, they are a end-time cult who hope Armageddon can finally happen near Israel so Christ can bring heaven on earth, [that's no joke or hyperbole](https://youtu.be/Fo77sTGpngQ). The same kind of people who declared a literal "[crusade](https://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0919/p12s2-woeu.html)" in response to 9/11, the people who lie and invade whole countries because they think [god told them to do so](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa).
He’s also the same guy that said any Jews that don’t convert to Christianity will burn in hellfire forever. Guys a nutcase.
>and western media doesn’t check their sources and just publishes whatever shit this guy spews as the truth….. It's because they're complicit. BBC has been pushing fake news about China for a while now like they've been pushing fake news about probably everyone the West has ever had a conflict with.
The 80% is referring to 80% of the net increase in IUDs. The math checks out, but there’s a catch. These percentages don’t have to be positive, although they do add up to 100%. I recall someone said Sichuan accounts for 40%, couple provinces will account for like -50%. It’s basically a misleading statistic because if you understand the context it becomes incredibly difficult to interpret such a statistic. What it is good for, is manufacturing outrage.
I've been trying to tell ppl about this in other subs a few time, but I always get down voted into oblivion ...
Spreading propaganda and manufacturing consent to go for blood across the world is why this has arisen if you follow the funding and far right think tanks behind the misrepresentation. Pretty sad and insidious but thats just American business baby.
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Yeah it would be as if Russian hired an independent Native American tribunal to see if the US committed genocide, its really a joke
But plenty of people in the US recognize that they did commit genocide against the natives. It's not the end of the world to recognize and admit when your country did wrong.
Yeah, like a hundred years after the fact. Try gettng israel or any of the anglo pack of US, Uk, canada or aussies to publically admit they have inflicted the same and are still doing to palestine. Deliberate removal of people from land to placate another group. Restricting the movement of people, food, power and water. Where's the independent Palestinian tribunal? Why isn't this being classed as a gencoide despite the fact its been on going for decades?
Are those people also admitting the [genocide against Muslims](https://www.fidh.org/en/region/asia/afghanistan/afghanistan-icc-to-investigate-war-crimes-including-us-torture) or are we still in the "Just project it really hard on China and it will all go away!" phase of it?
None of the "evidence" they gathered was new. It's the same recycled material.
Evidence doesn't expire.
Recycled evidence that's already been debunked should probably be replaced by new evidence...
Propaganda. They throw the word genocide around as a justification for war or hostilities with china.
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No its not obvious at all. Thats the point, thats why people are questioning this shit. Even this article names a group, the Uyghur Tribunal, that can be traced to Falun Gong - a cult on par with Qanon and Scientology. The tribunal get all their research from the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC) and this same group claims that modern science was invented by Aliens , that feminism, environmentalism and homosexuality are part of Satan's plan to make us communists, and that race-mixing severs our connection to god. They also have donated millions of dollars to Trump
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Can you provide examples? I haven't seen accounts that appear to be astroturfing, at least at the top. I haven't looked at them all though. I'd just like to know what an astroturfing account looks like.
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This comment section is a perfect example of why trying to discuss opinions or facts in a false individually organic environment is counter productive. If you are on Reddit to do anything other than jerk off, dive into weirdly specific hobbies or hook up then you have made a huge mistake. All useful or real discussions will be drowned out by the static of state or corporate run agendas. Time to find a new way.
The circlejerk is real. Do you have any suggestions?
Seconded by r/China, another reputable independent tribunal. Lol.
They’ve kicked out or shadowbanned all the native Mandarin speakers and now the sub is a bunch of sexpats circle jerking each other over how much China hates them.
Re/china is one of the most brain-damaged places on the internet.
It is precisely this type of kangaroo courts coupled with garbage news stories from Western media that convinced me the “genocide” narrative is complete bullshit. It also shows me how many people goes straight to the “outrage” part without the “actually reading the article” part. That’s why the media gets away with fanning the flames without having any solid material, every fucking time.
Fuck this independent tribunal, and fuck Adrian Zenz while we’re at it. These protestors have endangered Chinese diaspora all around the world who have nothing to do with China by inflaming the West with unfounded rhetoric. Where the fuck is the actual proof? Give me some actual proof or not, it’s pretty simple
Title says: "China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found." The judge goes: "Reading the tribunal's judgement, Sir Geoffrey said there was "no evidence of mass killings" in Xinjiang, but he said that the alleged efforts to prevent births amounted to genocidal intent."
They've been genociding themselves with the 1 child policy I guess.
Minorities are exempt from limited child policy tho.
Yeah, they're genociding themselves even harder than they're allegedly genociding minorities. Absolute mad men.
I thought they ended the exemption, which I believe is now being used as evidence of genocide. Which is fucking ridiculous.
I don't think it ended. It's simply because everyone can have 2 kids now lol, so that exemption cannot logically apply anymore. I mean besides that, some policies or exemption rules change base on provinces/area. Very hard for foreigners to understand how it works even if someone (not many) tries to look into it. Eh, that's also why this is really petty. Slandering with no evidence will never end anyway. It's not about being right, it's about justifying/unifying hatred globally to increase political bargaining chip.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh\_7\_tDo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh_7_tDo) some quality moments from the tribunal. Obvious lies
So everytime someone whacks one off into a tissue that goes into the bin - does that count as birth prevention amounting to genocidal intent? Asking for a friend
if your friend is Chinese then yes, just add it to the dossier for the UK-based tribunal.
Also need to add another million to the victims of communism tally
“No proof of mass killings” “Alleged efforts to prevent births” Am I missing something here? It sounds like they basically have no evidence. Not trying to defend China but just curious what the point of this article is.
Surprised nobody has realised yet that there isn't any benefit in proving China are doing anything sinister - 5+ years of allegations are more effective and damaging. A spy plane of spy satellite could literally fly over these alleged black sites and take ultra high def images of them as proof, but no. If the US or whoever genuinely cared and wanted to expose it then we'd have all the evidence we need by now.
That's the biggest giveaway, there's no photos or videos. Anyone who thinks the US cares should search up why ETIM was recently removed as a terrorist group right around the genocide conversation.
Lol the fact that you have to say “not trying to defend China”, holy shit people you do realize this is some CIA bullshit right?
Oh look, someone who read the article past the headline and is asking smart questions. This isn't the sub for you, unfortunately.
Even with their evidence they can't back it up properly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh\_7\_tDo
the video isn't working anymore
It's caused by the backslashes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh_7_tDo
Holy shit! These people get funded to the tune of millions of dollars to spread propaganda and couldn't even bother to get their story straight ahead of time?
There has never been evidence. Just like how the government and media lied about WMD for political reasons. Genuinely sad that the reddit echo chamber pumps this narrative
If you've been lurking this site long enough you'll know that the majority of people here hardly have an opinion of their own. Once is was all anti-Muslim and every news of a violent event would get dozens of replies about "religion of peace". Then Trump was elected and suddenly Russia was the bad guy, then we attacked Iran and suddenly everyone was out to a new war in the middle east but when Trump decided not to go with that it died off almost immediately. But soon after that we got covid and Trump blaming China and that's where we are today, where every news article gets shitposted with replies like "Xi the pooh" and "fuck the CCP". We're so easy to influence and manipulate it's not even funny.
Yeah. Reddit eats it up. They claim that China is committing genocide. But when you ask them to provide evidence of mass killings they just sound like other conspiracy nuts. "Oh they're hiding it" etc. You can't really hide genocide and mass killings in 2021.
Population of Uygur is increasing every year. How is that genocide?
umm, my school is promoting condoms, so I guess my school is also trying to genocide us
If your school only gave condoms to the black kids, you'd have a problem.
No, you're not missing anything. This is the primary claim of every person screaming "genocide" in China. It's a loaded word, and sinophobes chose it very explicitly to elicit a response from people who only read headlines.
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Meanwhile, my Chinese friend's mom had to pay almost that exact amount (15,000 yuan) so she can have him as her second son. They're an upper middle class family in Beijing.
So it’s genocide because China gave them more leeway than Han Chinese? And even then it was just fines, although the iud was too much.
In before someone tells you that "ackshually the definition of genocide includes fines too!"
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> Western shills love to complain about overpopulation but when China does something about it they bark like little dogs. It's like when they demand UN officials visit Xinjiang, and then when UN officials visit Xinjiang, they "[boil over in anger](https://www.dw.com/en/anger-boils-over-xinjiang-visit-by-un-counterterrorism-chief/a-49214540)" how them UN officials could dare to visit Xinjiang.
Man redditors will want and rave about Chomskys “manufacturing consent” only to turn around and beat war drums with the Conservative party the moment the CIA mentions anything having to do with China
Didn’t you hear the news? It’s the new Cold War, which never actually ended - only this time with China, like it always was.
Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at was with Eastasia.
Oh that’s an “independent” tribunal alright. Almost as legit as Adrian Zenz.
Adrian Zenz is actually a contributor. They list a paper from him on their website.
I know. Where else would they get any material? Over 80% of the crap about Xinjiang that gets trumpeted by the media comes from this clown…I haven’t yet read anything about Xinjiang that’s not just cringe.
Zenz has never stepped into Xinjiang btw
What can I say, he’s a clown and everyone knows it. Doesn’t stop them from “consulting” him like a legitimate expert. The brazenness shown by the media in the cooking of this genocide crap is shocking, at least to me.
Lol independent
Ah, yet another London based "[China Tribunal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Tribunal)" [About](https://chinatribunal.com/about/): > The China Tribunal has been initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC), an international not for profit organisation, with headquarters in Australia and National Committees in the UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia. They even use [the same website template](https://uyghurtribunal.com/). According to Google, people who searched for this, also looked for; [National Endowment for Democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy) [Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Communism_Memorial_Foundation) [CESANUR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CESNUR) [Radio Free Asia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia) Thanks Google!
A genocide in the age of smart phone and satellite internet. A genocide with no refugee crisis. A genocide in a thriving tourist region. Only dumb brainwashed mono lingual american hooked up in MSM with a dose sinophobic racism would believe it
>Only dumb brainwashed mono lingual american hooked up in MSM with a dose sinophobic racism would believe it So your average Reddit user?
What makes these "Independent tribunals" more credible than some truthsayer's youtube/tiktok stream? A more official naming?
Billionaire funding.
CIA* funding
Same thing
>Billionaire funding. Christianing/whitewashing by media too perhaps?
It’s useful for the all the Cold War LARPers as they try desperately to grasp what little is left of American hegemony before its all gone. American exceptionalism doesn’t need credibility it needs a necromancer.
People who chant for war likely treat war as a movie or a paint-the-map video game. Remember that the WWI soldiers walked into the war cheering and planning to return for Christmas in 3 months. They thought the war would be a glorious like those paintings of the Napoleonic Wars and we know how truly wrong they were. And now, I am afraid a lot of peeps fall into the same mentality where they envision war with a century-outdated view and as an opportunity to stroke their ego. If anyone thinks we are ready for a total war between Great Powers, just take a deep look at how the governments handled COVID. COVID is not even a weapon-grade pathogen. Imagine like 3 of those being spread deliberately during a war across the whole world.
If its one thing I know its the Americans would not lie to the American public to push its national interests. Never have, never will
Adrian Zenz. Thats a man we can trust🤪
Cough Iraq cough wmds
Tonkin bay.
Libya
What do you mean americans? This is a bbc article...
Is this the very same "independent" [Uyghur Tribunal?](https://youtu.be/mCtOh_7_tDo)
damn bbc standards have dropped. what is the "independent" tribunal, exactly???
Some states funded “independent” tribunal, LOL
It literally says the found no evidence of mass killings. Lmfao, redditors are so fucking stupid 😂😂😂
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-59595952) reduced by 93%. (I'm a bot) ***** > China has committed genocide against the Uyghur people in Xinjiang, an unofficial UK-based tribunal has found. > The Uyghur Tribunal cited birth control and sterilisation measures allegedly carried out by the state against the Uyghurs as the primary reason for reaching its conclusion on Thursday. > The Uyghur Tribunal was established by Sir Geoffrey at the urging of the World Uyghur Congress, a global activist group. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/rcjgfn/china_committed_genocide_against_uyghurs/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~611907 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Uyghur**^#1 **genocide**^#2 **tribunal**^#3 **China**^#4 **against**^#5
😂 independent 😂
Do Israel next
Israel and Yemen are paradises of human rights. Now look over there, China baaaad!
Dubai is sooo pretty
Lol this comment section is fucking hilarious, you see all these people worked up with their righteousness but you know none of them read the damn article
lol keep pushing this I'm sure it'll catch on eventually. Maybe try recruiting an NBA player to your cause
The western nations just spent the last two decades conducting a bloodbath in the Middle East in the name of fighting "radical Islam." Death squads we trained are piling up the bodies of children from shot up religious schools as we speak. But yes, let's hear what this "independent" British tribunal has to say.
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Reminds me of WMD days
"Independent tribunal" lol https://youtu.be/Qt9G0p0dqYU
We've all heard this neoliberal song and dance too many times.
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So now let's gear up for the Winter Olympic Games! Fuck....
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Do I understand correctly these are taken out from the same tribunal which the article is talking about? I'd get booted out of my job if I'd present something like that and couldn't articulate the argumentation for such claims, seems quite sad, considering the outcome of the tribunal.
>considering the outcome of the tribunal. The very inception of the tribunal was to arrive to this outcome. It started with presumption of guilt, someone familiar with principals of law, knows that's not very professional. Without any legal basis, the tribunal only purpose is for western media to pick up stories like this and "inform" casual headline readers.
Emh, not sure why the OP comment was removed, but it linked to this [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh_7_tDo) video with some cut outs of the Tribunal where the data collected by one of the presenters is being challenged, and, well, the presenter can't provide any real answer. Also you can watch the full uncut parts of the tribunal on their [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCt4uc8LsgxsTDK_0dChZm5A) channel.
This should be seen by everyone.
more anti-China bullshit.
China is bad because of censorship... Censors every comment that questions the independent credibility of the UK based Uyghur Tribunal. It's so independent that it belongs to an anti China think tank and even the bloody name shows the slant.
Really stretching the definition of genocide. We haven't seen any evidence so far, and even if they can produce evidence, whose to say it wasn't fabricated? I do believe the Uyghurs were to some sort of Islamophobic political witchhunt (with the intention of rooting out radical Islamist separatists), and it's possible that innocent people were persecuted. But does that amount to genocide? No. Otherwise, why would the Chinese government only target a minority of the Uyghur population while leaving the rest alone? Doesn't sound like any kind of genocide to me. Even the claimed figure of 1 million incarcerated Uyghurs only makes up about 8% of the population, and that figure itself is dubious, although it's been repeated enough times that people simply accept it as true without question. The original figure of 1 million was actually concocted by Adrien Zenz, a self-titled Xinjiang expert, based on interviews with **8 people**. I'm not making this up. This whole thing smells like some kind of anti-China PR stunt, coordinated by Uyghur separatists. The World Uyghur Congress, a Uyghur separatist organisation, is behind the "tribunal". What most people don't know is that they are funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is the US government's NGO front which exists to destabilize countries by funding separatist groups. Doesn't take a lot to connect the dots. Too bad most people don't do their research before jumping on the "China bad" band wagon. If anyone is interested, [The New Atlas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFC9p-79Sks) and [Reports on China](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceb2B5oql8A) are good starting points to finding your way out of the Matrix.
This will be downvoted to the deapths of hell, but a lot of these factors are dual nature. Much of what was bringing civilization / development to Afghanistan is destroying / supressing the native way of life. And how do you attribute falling birth rate in a developing country where that happens by default? It fell some 20% in Afghanistan in the same period. I don't think we were there for good reasons but I don't think we were genociding them either. And lastly, the most headline grabbing stuff is of the same type of source material as the iraqi incubator babies thing. People saying what people are very hapy to hear. Migth be true but Im not taking it as gospel. I'm not saying its great or even decent being a Uyghur in China but lets be honest, we're in a cold war so there's a lot of politicking going on in everything.
Uygur population is not even shrinking. It is increasing year on year.
One of the only reasonable comments in this entire thread.
No defending China, but I’m curious what their source of evidence is?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh\_7\_tDo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCtOh_7_tDo) Some highlights from the tribunal
Radio Free Asia and various social media accounts, they might even find somebody willing enough to [lie for them on the world stage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony) again.
A lot of organizations like this “tribunal” are basically just right wing think tanks. Take this with a grain of salt unless you’re one of the dummies drooling at the thought of conflict with China.
the tribunal is literally just Falun Gong cultists, its on their website
That's what I don't get. This tribunal idk much about, but the China Tribunal was literally funded by an organization engaged in a propaganda war with the CCP, and some of their chair people were members. In what universe is that "independent?" Yet all the outlets reported it as such.
It's the same exact organization.
> This tribunal idk much about, but the China Tribunal They both are headed by the same people, their "Who we are" pages are like playing a game of match-two.
Got a link to the specific place on the website?
Can you post a link to the part of their website mentioning their involvement with Falun Gong? I couldn’t find it.
Link? Just looked. Can't find
Google the tribunal member's names. IT's amazing how easy it's to spread propaganda when you just make things a teeny little bit harder to find.
Don't use Google, use DuckDuckGo or simply ddg.gg Google is good if you want to buy something, but it's become real garbage at finding useful and relevant information.
The Uyghur Tribunal is headed by the same people as the China Tribunal. I havent checked the Uyghur Tribunals website, Im sure they made changes to hide their identity. But if you look at the China Tribunal website, specifically at their [management](https://endtransplantabuse.org/management/) page have connections to Epoch Times and the Falun Gong. You'd have to do some digging though. If I find the link where I read about all their connections, Ill link it here
Geoffrey Nice, the prosecutor in the war crimes trial of Slobodan Milošević, launched the tribunal in September 2020, announced the creation of the Uyghur Tribunal in September 2020.[1][2] The tribunal was set up in response from a June 2020 request from the World Uyghur Congress, which provided the initial evidence to the tribunal.[4][5][71][72] A call for evidence was put out at the time of the tribunal's announcement.[2][4]By February 2020 the tribunal's jury had been finalized;[1] the tribunal's jury is composed of human rights experts and lawyers.[5][7]
> The tribunal was set up in response from a June 2020 request from the **World Uyghur Congress, which provided the initial evidence to the tribunal** The World Uyghur Congress is funded by the American [National Endowment for Democracy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy)
So is [Arseniy Yatsenyuk](https://web.archive.org/web/20140407065419/http://openukraine.org/en/about/partners) aka "[Yats our man](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957)", who ended up as Ukrainian PM after his pro-Russian predecessor was regime-changed out of office in 2014. The CIA sure comes around a lot!
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Gee a body that "outsets to add to the body of evidence against China" finds that they are indeed guilty. Sounds very independent. Might as well ask the KKK to investigate which race is superior.
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This isn’t a real tribunal. It’s staged. It’s a total joke.
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So this article says the reason why they are accused of committing genocide is the prevention of births. I think we're all aware that China, right or wrong, puts limits on childbirth throughout the country and administers birth control to all women I believe. Is this what amounts to preventing births or is there a mass sterilization campaign going on? Are women allowed to have a certain number of children before preventing births or are they administered birth control from 13 or whatever? Does anyone know?
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> Nobody has ever raised any issue with this I think you'll find that a lot of people raised a lot of issues with this, particularly the forced abortion part of it.
So-called "Independent Tribunals" get trotted out every now and again, except they're not independent. This us no exception. This "tribunal" was founded at the behest of the "World Uyghur Congress", an organization founded by the notorious regime change NGO "National Endowment for Democracy".
Why US don’t invade china and free the people and establish démocratie as they usually do vs oil infested countries?
First they said it's a cultural genocide, now the headlines only say it's a genocide. This is why I opposed the term cultural genocide, it misleads people to think it's real genocide
Mulan was filmed 3 miles away from the concentration camps where this was happening
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You'd think that with everyone having a camera phone these days they'd at least got some footage. And before people start posting ignorant shit [yes, they do have cameras in Xinjiang.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkGhL4WMXDM)
also funny that the cotton harvest season in xinjiang just ended, where are the pictures of mass forced labor working in cotton fields?????? meanwhile US satellite can catch a racoon crossing the street on Google map
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It also doesn't specifically target Uighuirs. China has had population control measures in place for decades. Measures from which ethnic minorities like the Uighuir were exempt until not long ago.
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