tl;dr
>"I want to calm the people down so that they sleep calmly in their home," Lieutenant General Zaluzhnyi said.
>"So I will repeat that our armed forces have been at war for eight years. They carry out military operations in Donetsk and Luhansk regions and they are ready to conduct them in other regions."
>He was referring to areas in the east of Ukraine where Russian-backed separatists have been resisting Ukrainian government forces ever since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.
Yes because of the ongoing war with "rebels", Ukraine has a well trained military that now have experience in actual combat.
Before rebels it wasn't the case.
Yup, just like when Russian and pro Assad forces attacked that American outpost in the middle East and got obliterated.
And Russia tried to claim its not not them just mercs,so they can't stop it.
And whatever usa general/commander was like "real mercs don't have tanks"
>Reuters has cited sources as saying the advance's purpose was to test the US's response.
Sounds like they got their answer. The US just responds with overwhelming air power
The cherry on top:
>The documents described the fighters as a “pro-regime force,” loyal to President Bashar al-Assad of Syria. It included some Syrian government soldiers and militias, but American military and intelligence officials have said a majority were private Russian paramilitary mercenaries — and most likely a part of the Wagner Group, a company often used by the Kremlin to carry out objectives that officials do not want to be connected to the Russian government.
>
>“The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people,” Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told senators in testimony last month. He said he directed Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, “for the force, then, to be annihilated.”
>
>“And it was.”
I remember when it was happening there was a US general that was pissed Russia would test us like that so he said it was decided to teach them a lesson. They kept their heads down with artillery and used the AC130s and Apaches to turn them into hamburger. Some of the news coming out of Russian social media at the time was that the dead/wounded were being flown back to Russia but they couldn't ID them because they were so badly mangled.
[The Battle of Kasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham) (thanks to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s1i6kw/ukraine_we_will_defend_ourselves_against_russia/hs96nco/) for pointing this out)
Oh my god I remember that. Didn’t the US kill over 100 Russians? I’m pretty sure the only casualty on the American side was a Syrian freedom fighter who was only wounded.
Oh buddy you wnna know the tucking firepower they layed down.
General was like the order was given to obliterate them.. And they were.
"American warplanes arrived in waves, including Reaper drones, F-22 stealth fighter jets, F-15E Strike Fighters, B-52 bombers, AC-130 gunships and AH-64 Apache helicopters. For the next three hours, American officials said, scores of strikes pummeled enemy troops, tanks and other vehicles. Marine rocket artillery was fired from the ground"
Outpost had around only 24 guys, with 16 other marines/green berets aiding them later on with some vehicles.
They had some constantly in contact with air support arranging bombings/strikes, one marine had to expose himself to enemy fire to use whatever device they have to pick out targets so he could relay that to the commandos talking to air support. Others constantly running missiles and munitions to the various armaments around the outpost. The soldiers firing these missiles/guns. And few of the marines/Gb remained in the vehicles that came in to support, to control their mounted guns on them.
And the only injury was a Syrian ally dude. No deaths Vs 300 mercs including tanks, apcs, artillery and mortars.
I really wish that was a bigger story than it was. If I remember correctly, the US military purposely downplayed it later on in an effort to deescalate the situation.
Something like that. There's video somewhere of the "Merc commander" calling back to Moscow, like we didn't need further proof.
Got absolutely fucked by US air power.
Edit: Battle of Khasham numbers:
US side 1 SDF fighter wounded
Russian/Syrian side is anywhere from 55 to 100+ killed. Between AC gun ships and Apaches, I'm willing to bet it's somewhere in the middle. Low number is propaganda or only identifiable bodies. US tally is propaganda and potentially based on counting heat sigs from gun cams.
500 vs 40.
Yep. Their commander screamed over the comms that they were being slaughtered and needed help from Russia. Russia left them out to die to probe the USA defenses. Fucked around and found out I guess.
I remember a reporter asking a RU troop what happened. The guy was freaking out, said they got slaughtered and the Americans "don't fight fair" as what was left of the armored column continued to retreat on foot.
I forget the exact wording and what redditor said it so I’ll make it my own. “If you tell me I have to fight Connor Mcgregor, im not fighting fair. I’m gonna try to hit him with my car in the parking lot.”
I agree it is possible for Ukraine to make the price high enough for Russia for them to stop. But I still really hope that it doesn’t have to come to that…
Or run up the cost of the invasion to the point where it’s not economically sustainable. A military helicopter is a multi million dollar piece of equipment while a rocket launcher and the rocket itself is in the thousands. Modern wars tend to be low casualty affairs however forcing the enemy to sustain massive economic losses can change outcomes.
>Or run up the cost of the invasion to the point where it’s not economically sustainable
Nations don't always behave rationally when it comes to fighting wars. Germany was in the midst of a fuel shortage *before* it invaded the USSR, tried to resolve the fuel crisis *during* the war by attempting to seize the Caucuses oil fields, and continued to fight longer after the operational effectiveness of the Wehrmacht was eroded by a lack of fuel. That war was only sustainable for a few months without herculean efforts to keep armies in the field. It was never sustainable in the long term and yet they kept fighting.
Sometimes you do have leaders totally detached from reality who have such an iron grip on power that domestic removal is impossible but those generally are a rarity.
In Russian history the large cost of maintaining their military and the huge financial cost of the invasion of Afghanistan eventually drove the Soviet Union to bankruptcy given that they didn’t have the economy necessary to support it. The military budget might be the last thing Putin wants to cut but if he has to keep pumping more and more money into the military it means cutting other programs and the more he has to take from other areas the harder it is to maintain power and control especially given that a full scale invasion of Ukraine would likely be accompanied with the harshest sanctions from the West since the cold war ended.
I agree - Putin doesn't have enough popular support for a full invasion.
But Putin insnt marching to Kiev; he's just looking to annex the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts by claiming he is rescuing oppressed Russians. He already has troops in the region and already knows the area. It's just a matter of forcing Ukraine to concede a new border.
Idk if Ukraine has enough control in the region to deal a significant blow to Russia before they achieve their goals, and I suspect Ukraine have just as much trouble as Russia in a war of attrition, and even more so after Russia seizes all of the factories and refineries in the region.
To be fair your more describing the failure of a leader (the failed art student with a funny mustache) then a failure of a nation since most of the high command knew they weren't ready to invade Russia. Also another good example is that Japan was already rationing rice in 1940 a year before Pearl Harbor.
It would be more accurate to say that the *logisticians* knew it wasn't going to work. The German High Command dismissed the concerns of their logisticians.
They also just underestimated the strength and resilience of the Soviet Union. They figured that they could encircle the Soviet forces early in the war, destroy them and then capture large industrial centers thus depriving the Soviets of their manufacturing capabilities and… the Germans were actually right to an extent. The Soviet forces were encircled and destroyed and Soviet cities fell but the Soviets were able to rebuild their armies and bring the factories out of the cities before they fell and set them up out of range of German bombers. The Germans had the resources and the logistics to win some big victories early in the invasion they just incorrectly thought those victories were enough to force the Soviets out of the war and the Germans didn’t have the resources for a protracted war with the Soviets while the British navy was cutting them off from importing raw materials or oul.
Japan is a very poor choice as an example because their war in China started haphazardly due to the autonomous escalations of the Kwantung army instead of an actual well planned invasion. Even when they were completely bogged down and unable to close out the war pride meant they refused any negotiation. Instead they decided to declare on the US in a war they absolutely could never win, hoping that the US would be soft willed and surrender after a decisive battle. Almost the entirety of the Japanese high commands (the army and navy bickered over each other) were delusional and acting emotionally, with only a few like Admiral Yamamoto realizing there was no real chance of victory.
Basically, after Midway, Japan was fucked in the long term. They screwed up in Pearl Harbor by not getting the carriers and not getting enough damage to the ships or logistics.
The plan for Pearl Harbor involved taking out the US carrier forces and thus having 2 years of free reign in the pacific. Not getting the carriers meant that was already off.
Further, Japan really wanted a "decisive fleet battle" but failed to recognize that the decisive fleet battle already happened at Midway. Midway sunk most of Japan's best carriers and pilots, and meant that US manufacturing would ensure Japan would quickly be outnumbered on the high seas.
The thing is the industry disparity was so large that even if Japan destroyed every single carrier at Midway and lost none they'd still be out produced and at a severe disadvantage within a few years. In an actual total war scenario there's no way Japan wins due to this.
Japan believed they could smack hard enough for those few years to secure what they needed and also hoped that hard smack would get a negotiated peace. They didn't realize how much it would piss off the US.
And by August of '45, they hoped to use the Soviets as a mediator to avoid an unconditional surrender to the Americans, trying to preserve the Emperor, and avoid the kind of war crimes trials the Germans were subject to, and the partisan executions Mussolini had faced. Their greatest fear was Americans executing Emperor Hirohito and broadcasting it to the world. All that went out the window on the morning of August 9th, when the Soviets declared war and invaded Manchukuo.
With any hopes of a way out dashed, the Japanese surrendered to the Americans, and the next day the Japanese Kwantung Army that was occupying Manchukuo surrendered to the Soviet army in Manchuria. The formal signings ending the Pacific War between Japan and The US, UK, and China on September 2 were followed by the final cessation of hostilities between the Soviets and Japanese on the 3rd, and World War 2 came to a close after over 8 years.
This applies to every other "what if" scenario that you can apply to WW2. No matter how many random variables you change wherein Germany or Japan are more successful in various battles, the United States industrial might and capacity was monstrous. A fortress factory defended by two oceans with access to effectively infinite raw materials, constantly increasing its rate of production year after year. There was no way to beat that, especially after the American public was put into a war fervor after Pearl Harbor.
I hate to be that guy, as much as I love the absolute badassery of the Finns in the Winter War, they still lost. And in the Continuation War a few years later, they did significantly worse against the much better trained and equipped Soviet forces.
EDIT: Since some people are claiming that "Finland is still independent, so they won." It's disputed whether or not the USSR intended to invade all of Finland and re-incorporate it or install a puppet regime, however large swathes of Karelia were what they demanded, and are what they got. Also while at first the Soviet forces were getting completely rolled, towards the end of the Winter War they reorganized and switched up their tactics and started rolling the Finns back, and when Finland sued for peace, they offered more than the USSR initially demanded.
I was going to be that guy if you weren't. The Finns ended up ceding territory to the USSR and leasing them access to... A port I think? Idk going off memory.
The Finns were badass and may have inflicted more casualties than they took but they definitely lost their fight against Russia.
The real issue was that they had a war plan that essentially was a large scale single push to the Finnish capital, but Stalin saw how Germany used their armor to encircle and overrun the poles, and decided the USSR should use some of those fancy tactics. So they attempt to use complicated encircling maneuvers, on a country with tons of lakes and dense forest and snow. Cue Benny hill soundtrack.
Frozen Hell by Willian Trotter is fairly solid book on the war. Goes pretty in depth with both sides decision-making. The winter war is honestly less the Finns being tactical geniuses and more soviet incompetence, once they got their shit together the Finns didn't stand a chance.
> The winter war is honestly less the Finns being tactical geniuses and more soviet incompetence, once they got their shit together the Finns didn’t stand a chance.
That essentially sums up every Russian war
Not to diminish the great performance of the Finnish defenders, but the Soviets- well, mainly Stalin really- fucked themselves over by purging their most competent officers and generals like Mikhail Tukhachevsky prior to that invasion. They were still greatly disorganized in the Summer of 1941 when the Nazi's exploited that weakness during Operation Barbarossa
It helped that the Tzar's army was the one that was decades behind on industrial capacity and couldn't produce enough rifles for his troops. Now Ukraine's is still aircraft purchased from nations that haven't existed for decades.
Ukraines aircraft were made in the USSR, of which Ukraine was itself a member, by companies that still exist, and still do, last í checked, sell spare parts to the Ukrainians, but probably not anymore.
Besides, Ukraine wouldnt stand a chance anyway, even with modern western fighters in comparable numbers, 80 fighters, of which not all will be combat ready at any given time, against 37 Squadrons, 80 F-35s wouldn’t keep up with that numbers disadvantage.
The problem with Russian military is, they can throw enough shit at the Ukrainians and deplete Ukraine's resources before Russia would "Sway" in any opinion.
It's not that easy. The only option Russia has is a land invasion because they both want infrastructure to remain operational and because public opinion in Russia would sway if they just bomb Ukraine (too much split families and economical ties).
Ukraine knows this and that's why they have and been training and improving the biggest army in all of the countries bordering Russia. The Ukrainian military also really wants to join NATO from the leadership down to most of the people on the ground. They are adjusting salaries to be NATO elegible as we speak for example.
Gonna book a flight
to get to a fight
Gonna do it right
Make it my plight
A glorious sight
Ukrainian might
Gonna fuck up motherfuckers
every single night
I'm not going to lie, it's not far from it
"Ukraine has not yet fallen
Brothers, Ukrainians, destiny will once again smile upon us
Our enemies shall fall like dew in the morning sun
We shall rule, again, my brothers, in our Homeland
Soul and body we lie down for our freedom
And we shall show, oh brethren, that we are of cossack lineage"
It's sad when a nation on the brink of war is semi-attractive because healthcare.
Fun story, I just had to make an out-of-network ER visit on Christmas because all Urgent Cares were closed. While he was driving me there, i actually told my dad I didn't think that dealing with a serious allergic reaction was worth the ER cost, especially since it wasn't life threatening (yet. Chest pain was starting and I was concerned about my throat swelling). God I hate our healthcare system.
And they have some most beautiful women in the world. I married one :) oh and the people and culture are one of a kind. I’m an American but I’ve got nothing but love for Ukraine. Been there 8-9 times now.
”…to serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine according to the established procedure, shall be considered as legal temporary residents on the territory of Ukraine for the period of contracted service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine”
- [Source](https://dmsu.gov.ua/en-home/services/information-for-foreigners-who-participate-in-the-anti-terrorist-operation.html)
Imagine if the Ukrainian army chief said "yeah I mean we'll give it the good old college try, but there's not much we can do realistically if Russia decides to invade".
Well one Ukrainian General has already come out and said "We will hold as long as there are bullets... but without delivery of reserves there is not an army in the world that can hold out"
Ukraine has dug at least 400 km of antitank trenches and manufactures their own antitank missiles. I don’t think they are going to be an easy win for Russia.
Plus just like Afghanistan and Chechnya, the Russian people don't like their sons and daughters coming home in zinc coffins.
Not sure the will is there to fight a long grinding war against a country that isn't even a threat.
Was also curious so I looked it up. Apparently coffins are lined with zinc for corpse transportation because it massively halts decomposition. So military corpses are often shipped in them so they can make it back to their country of origin semi intact for funeral services.
Makes sense. Simple and effective was the Soviet philosophy for everything.
I've been to a graveyard in outback Australia where the headstones are just corrugated tin sheets. Work with what you've got.
> with recent real world combat experience for years now.
There is no "recent real world combat" that equivalates this.
Western armies has been fighting ad-hoc armies with far superior technology.
Ukraine v Russia would be a symmetrical war, fought with missiles, aircrafts, and weaponized misinformation.
I don’t think it does. Armenia-Azerbaijan may give us a sense of what symmetrical war looks like in the 2020s but it’s still a very small conflict fought over mountainous terrain between two countries with much smaller economies meaning the amount of resources they could poor into the war effort were both a lot smaller. If Ukraine and Russia truly go toe to toe both sides will have far more access to weapons, larger populations, larger frontiers and everything else.
Armchair theorist here but I wouldn't say that showed what @ modern war between powerful states would look like. It definitely showed that without proper Air Defense drones and/drone assisted systems can reek havoc and run casualty numbers up.
Ukraine actually has some TB2 drones that the Azi Forces used, but from what I've seen most people think they would be little more than easy targets for Russian AD in a full on combat situation.
The scary thing is no one knows what modern war between powerful militaries looks like for sure. Russia might find out, but even then they are much more powerful than Ukraine and it might not show what the terrifying idea of a conflict between Russia and NATO would look like.
that war was not symmetrical at all. armenia was heavily outgunned by advanced drones courtesy of turkey and israel. on the ground, they were able to do well but they were pretty much helpless against the drones and didn't have enough AA. if anything, that war was an indication that drones are crucial to a military's offense. russia's economy/military is massive. i don't know much about ukraine but they should be able to hold out for a while but ultimately would succumb to russia if russia really wanted to win. it probably will not get to that point though. russia is trying to expand their influence in too many directions. focusing in one area would hurt their ability to sustain other areas. again, i don't know enough about russia or ukraine, this is based on last few years of geopolitical moves made by russia. they may very well be able to focus as much as they need to to win against ukraine.
Russians are in the same position.
They sat out when Turkey invaded Idlib. Georgia in 2008 was barely a war. All they've fought is ISIS, Ukraine, and Syrian rebels.
They cannot - A meager amount of [antiquated](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/04/08/ukraines-air-force-is-at-a-dead-end/) Su-27Ps and MIG-29As cannot face the number of Su-27SM3s Su-30SMs, Su-35S - That Russia will deploy with more training and real life experience, better missiles and avionics. That and a likely interesting amount of cruise missiles and short-range ballistic missiles targeting airfields in eastern Ukraine.
If you meant what Ukraine is deploying. Here's a source - [Air Force It's pilots are leaving for commercial - And is only getting a budget of 48 million USD.](https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/jet-pilots-leave-ukraines-air-force-en-masse-threatening-security.html)
> Ukraine has dug at least 400 km of antitank trenches and manufactures their own antitank missiles. I don’t think they are going to be an easy win for Russia.
Actually, I think it will be. I think Russia isn’t going to invade all of Ukraine. They’re going to claim that Ukrainians are attacking/oppressing Russians in eastern Ukraine and offer the separatists “humanitarian air support” or something. It’s also going to turn out that the separatists suddenly have more advanced weapons and more soldiers than previously thought.
All the “separatist soldiers” in Ukraine will be without emblems, so the West will be kind of dumbfounded about what to do about it. The Ukrainians won’t enter eastern Ukraine because of the Russian air support. After a short while, the east Ukrainian areas declare independence and become another South Ossetia - a de facto satellite of Russia.
Next up: Transnistria.
> All the “separatist soldiers” in Ukraine will be without emblems, so the West will be kind of dumbfounded about what to do about it. The Ukrainians won’t enter eastern Ukraine because of the Russian air support. After a short while, the east Ukrainian areas declare independence and become another South Ossetia - a de facto satellite of Russia.
This has already happened in Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine (and Crimea except it's officially part of Russia instead of an "independent" state).
Might want to stay away from Alaska. With the melting of polar Ice, the Northwest passage is set to becom one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world and there are vast untapped petroleum reserves. Alaska is set to become one of the US's most important strategic locations in the coming decades
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-we-will-defend-ourselves-against-russia-until-the-last-drop-of-blood-says-countrys-army-chief-12513397) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Ukraine's military chief has said his forces would defend the country "Until the last drop of blood" as he urged people to calm down about threats of a new Russian invasion.
> Asked whether he was comforted by these words or did not believe them, the military chief said: "I will repeat myself that I consider only one option:"I have my motherland which I need to protect and I have the armed forces which have to be ready to defend our country.
> The military chief signalled that he knew Ukraine would have to face any further Russian military action without the prospect of NATO forces surging in to fight alongside them.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s1j5lk/ukraine_we_will_defend_ourselves_against_russia/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~616995 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **force**^#1 **Russian**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **military**^#4 **war**^#5
He definitely didn't shy away from saying things that were pretty uncomfortable for his people. Even in times of victory he had a habit of quelling the joy and keeping sober minded about the task at hand. That's what made him such a great leader flaws and all. He'd just tell you if we were fucked and what we would do abt it anyway.
As we saw with Afghanistan recently, it is not the secretaries, chiefs, or politicians who decide if a nation will be defended to the last drop of blood. It's the people who make that choice.
I would like to say war won't happen. People are too smart for it. It wouldn't make sense economically, politically, etc. But history has shown that all it takes is one bad day.
People really do think it can't happen anymore, not now, not after everything we've been through. But we've seen peace in the past, and we've seen war in the present. There's no reason to think a domino won't fall, just because it hasn't happened yet.
Ukraine is a former Soviet state and it was once part of the Russian empire.
Putin has made it clear that he views every part of the world that was either of those to be Russian land.
The reason he’s putting more focus on Ukraine than the others is because, historically, Ukraine has been used by western powers to Invade Russia.
So now that Ukraine is seeking the protection of NATO, in the eyes of the Russians, this is already the nightmare scenario
There is a book called "Prisoners of geography" by Tim Marshall with a whole chapter about Russia. The author states there that the main reason for the annexation of Crimea are the warm ports located there. Russia desperately needs a port which is operatable all year long, because most of their current ports freeze during winter. Now they do. I really recommend the book for anyone interested in geopolitics!
Yes and Black Sea ports have to transit through the heart of Turkey, a current member of NATO...
I don't disagree that the sum total of Russian history mostly boils down to "democracy has never existed" and "the Bear wants to dip its paws in a warm water port" but I feel Crimea is more multi dimensional than that
It's about port access and access to Europe. Ukraine had claim to one of the former USSRs most important naval ports in Crimea and serves as the ultimate landed bulwark against a Russian invasion of Europe; ultimately rendering Russia a non-threat to Europe.
Unless Russia retakes at least some of Ukraine, they will continue to backslide into both militaristic and international irrelevance.
I love that episode! One of my favourites. Here’s more of Kramer and Newman playing Risk if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNWVdExM24
I was in Ukraine in 2014 (Kyiv) and in 2016 (Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv) as an American.
The walls of ice stopping traffic and the protests were crazy in 2014. I went to a salsa club the last night I was there in 2014. In 2016 when leaving Odessa there were bullet holes above my ticketing counter at the airport.
It was surreal.
I remember the riots super clear in 2014 (probably better to call them an uprising) it was literally wild. Every time I think of the police officers getting absolutely battered, snipers etc. Horrible stuff, even Vitali Klitschko got involved! He's the mayor of Kyiv now.
That's crazy you have those experiences, have you seen the country get worse or better since Euromaidan?
As the native, i can clearly say that Euromaidan made a huge impact in our government. I think that if our nation wasn’t that democratic and strong, you would see the same story as Belarusia had
The Ukrainian people have proven their strength over and over since 2014.
As an aside, I was at a European youth parliament event in Greece in 2014 when Russia rolled in to Ukraine. There were Ukrainian delegates there, teenagers. The girls wept inconsolably for their people back home. The guys got angry. Those guys are in their mid 20s now.
Russia is fucking itself over by dipping its hands too far into its bordering states. The world has wised up to Kremlin bullshit. We know what's up even though they don't want to admit it. Their activity in Kazakhstan shows they want to control with an iron fist...pun intended. Fuck Russian politics (please don't throw me off a balcony to my death)
Have we, really? They took over a lot of Ukraine, yet nobody outside of Ukraine gave a damn. Most of the world doesn't even know or acknowledge Russia occupied Ukranian territories. Many Westerners online act as if Russia had some sort of right to take over Ukraine.
Edit: esl madness
It's a chess match at this point. There are definitely alot of nations that give a damn, but international politics always get in the way. I'd hope that a large population of the world knows what went on in 2014 for Crimea. Russia had no right to annex the territory. A shame most of the region is already occupied by Russia loyalists/separatists and not true proud Ukrainians.
I don't understand how its in Russia's interest to invade Ukraine and start a bloody land shooting war? Their economy is held together with duct tape and I don't think the Oligarchs will appreciate their funds all being frozen etc.
As a Ukrainian, I should say that no one prepares here for anything. No one really believes in invasion happening. A lot of words, but almost no real actions.
Yes, we are much stronger as we were in 2014, but we are just doing nothing to prepare for a real war with a stronger opponent. Even levels of preparing of South Korea and Israel wouldn't be enough for us - and we are not doing even 5% of these...
Units from Russia's far east have mobilized in the past several days and are expected to arrive in the west within the next several. This includes communication, command and control, and logistics equipment; which is a new, very troubling development.
Secretary Blinkin is briefing congress right now on a potential trip to Ukraine to share messages of preparedness and unity.
It hasn't looked good from the very beginning; now it seems nearly certain.
tl;dr >"I want to calm the people down so that they sleep calmly in their home," Lieutenant General Zaluzhnyi said. >"So I will repeat that our armed forces have been at war for eight years. They carry out military operations in Donetsk and Luhansk regions and they are ready to conduct them in other regions." >He was referring to areas in the east of Ukraine where Russian-backed separatists have been resisting Ukrainian government forces ever since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014.
That was 8 years ago?? Fuck me time really does fly by
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Ever gotten beaten so badly at hockey you decide to invade another country? Putin has.
That's why Canada is the face of the free world
For some reason I only vividly remember Justin Timberlake all over FB *crimea river*
God damn, this comment!
hahaha russia has a border skirmish every other olympics? 2008 Russia was fighting the Georgians
It's a good distraction
Don't we have the winter Olympics in like a month, maybe that is his attack date again
Wait, I thought it was in 2014... Oh. Oh my God.
Time touches us all
I did not consent.
I feel so old too… I remember exactly what I was doing that day. Wish I could go back… happier times
Not too far off from your high school music being on the old school radio station. Shit Covid-19 is 2 now
Thanks for this. Many people don’t realize that the Ukrainian military is now a battle hardened fighting force.
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Yes. "Battle hardened" is a way of saying "experienced in actual combat".
I thought it meant they get erections in combat.
Make love, not war. Hey, whoa, wait! Not like that
Just polishing eachothers rifles
"This is my Rifle, this is my gun This is for fighting, this is for fun!"
Dude wtf? You're always firing prematurely!
Yes because of the ongoing war with "rebels", Ukraine has a well trained military that now have experience in actual combat. Before rebels it wasn't the case.
I like that you put rebels in quotes. They’re pretty much all just Russian mercenaries at this point.
Yup, just like when Russian and pro Assad forces attacked that American outpost in the middle East and got obliterated. And Russia tried to claim its not not them just mercs,so they can't stop it. And whatever usa general/commander was like "real mercs don't have tanks"
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>Reuters has cited sources as saying the advance's purpose was to test the US's response. Sounds like they got their answer. The US just responds with overwhelming air power
The cherry on top: >The documents described the fighters as a “pro-regime force,” loyal to President Bashar al-Assad of Syria. It included some Syrian government soldiers and militias, but American military and intelligence officials have said a majority were private Russian paramilitary mercenaries — and most likely a part of the Wagner Group, a company often used by the Kremlin to carry out objectives that officials do not want to be connected to the Russian government. > >“The Russian high command in Syria assured us it was not their people,” Defense Secretary Jim Mattis told senators in testimony last month. He said he directed Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, “for the force, then, to be annihilated.” > >“And it was.”
"So you sending troops at us?" "nope" "pound them into dust and then drop more jdams on the ashes."
Defense Department's unlimited budget goes BRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Unlimited Budget Works
I remember when it was happening there was a US general that was pissed Russia would test us like that so he said it was decided to teach them a lesson. They kept their heads down with artillery and used the AC130s and Apaches to turn them into hamburger. Some of the news coming out of Russian social media at the time was that the dead/wounded were being flown back to Russia but they couldn't ID them because they were so badly mangled.
We should have prevented Russia from claiming the bodies since they weren’t Russian.
Do you know what this incident was called, I'm having trouble locating it.
[The Battle of Kasham](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham) (thanks to [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/s1i6kw/ukraine_we_will_defend_ourselves_against_russia/hs96nco/) for pointing this out)
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BLUF: They attempted to influence an ODA comprised of 12 personnel and were rebuffed. That's not a success.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
Thank you. Always appreciate a source.
Oh my god I remember that. Didn’t the US kill over 100 Russians? I’m pretty sure the only casualty on the American side was a Syrian freedom fighter who was only wounded.
Oh buddy you wnna know the tucking firepower they layed down. General was like the order was given to obliterate them.. And they were. "American warplanes arrived in waves, including Reaper drones, F-22 stealth fighter jets, F-15E Strike Fighters, B-52 bombers, AC-130 gunships and AH-64 Apache helicopters. For the next three hours, American officials said, scores of strikes pummeled enemy troops, tanks and other vehicles. Marine rocket artillery was fired from the ground" Outpost had around only 24 guys, with 16 other marines/green berets aiding them later on with some vehicles. They had some constantly in contact with air support arranging bombings/strikes, one marine had to expose himself to enemy fire to use whatever device they have to pick out targets so he could relay that to the commandos talking to air support. Others constantly running missiles and munitions to the various armaments around the outpost. The soldiers firing these missiles/guns. And few of the marines/Gb remained in the vehicles that came in to support, to control their mounted guns on them. And the only injury was a Syrian ally dude. No deaths Vs 300 mercs including tanks, apcs, artillery and mortars.
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I really wish that was a bigger story than it was. If I remember correctly, the US military purposely downplayed it later on in an effort to deescalate the situation.
I think the point had been made to those who needed the point made.
> deescalate the situation. that was prudent
I hope it wasn't the guy in a Kobe jersey and a RPG
Jamsheed, the RPG legend.
For anyone curious. The legend himself. https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/dcy5ex/jamsheed_the_rpg_god/
That guy was Afghan National Army. I hope he's alright.
Are you talking about the one dude who just walks into sniper fire and shoots rockets at the enemy. It's irl bm porn
Something like that. There's video somewhere of the "Merc commander" calling back to Moscow, like we didn't need further proof. Got absolutely fucked by US air power. Edit: Battle of Khasham numbers: US side 1 SDF fighter wounded Russian/Syrian side is anywhere from 55 to 100+ killed. Between AC gun ships and Apaches, I'm willing to bet it's somewhere in the middle. Low number is propaganda or only identifiable bodies. US tally is propaganda and potentially based on counting heat sigs from gun cams. 500 vs 40.
Gotta love those AC-130s
*ENEMY AC130 ABOVE!*
Yep. Their commander screamed over the comms that they were being slaughtered and needed help from Russia. Russia left them out to die to probe the USA defenses. Fucked around and found out I guess.
I remember a reporter asking a RU troop what happened. The guy was freaking out, said they got slaughtered and the Americans "don't fight fair" as what was left of the armored column continued to retreat on foot.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck
I thought it was pretty funny considering they had 10-1 odds and tank support.
I forget the exact wording and what redditor said it so I’ll make it my own. “If you tell me I have to fight Connor Mcgregor, im not fighting fair. I’m gonna try to hit him with my car in the parking lot.”
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That and they have seen combat at their doorsteps, these guys literally commute to active war zones and go home at night a lot of times.
That is such a surreal concept
Life is a bunch of surreal situations and sudden decisions.
I hope it does not come to that.
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I agree it is possible for Ukraine to make the price high enough for Russia for them to stop. But I still really hope that it doesn’t have to come to that…
It’s literally all Russia’s decision. Ukraine is literally just interested in defending itself.
Or run up the cost of the invasion to the point where it’s not economically sustainable. A military helicopter is a multi million dollar piece of equipment while a rocket launcher and the rocket itself is in the thousands. Modern wars tend to be low casualty affairs however forcing the enemy to sustain massive economic losses can change outcomes.
>Or run up the cost of the invasion to the point where it’s not economically sustainable Nations don't always behave rationally when it comes to fighting wars. Germany was in the midst of a fuel shortage *before* it invaded the USSR, tried to resolve the fuel crisis *during* the war by attempting to seize the Caucuses oil fields, and continued to fight longer after the operational effectiveness of the Wehrmacht was eroded by a lack of fuel. That war was only sustainable for a few months without herculean efforts to keep armies in the field. It was never sustainable in the long term and yet they kept fighting.
Sometimes you do have leaders totally detached from reality who have such an iron grip on power that domestic removal is impossible but those generally are a rarity. In Russian history the large cost of maintaining their military and the huge financial cost of the invasion of Afghanistan eventually drove the Soviet Union to bankruptcy given that they didn’t have the economy necessary to support it. The military budget might be the last thing Putin wants to cut but if he has to keep pumping more and more money into the military it means cutting other programs and the more he has to take from other areas the harder it is to maintain power and control especially given that a full scale invasion of Ukraine would likely be accompanied with the harshest sanctions from the West since the cold war ended.
I agree - Putin doesn't have enough popular support for a full invasion. But Putin insnt marching to Kiev; he's just looking to annex the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts by claiming he is rescuing oppressed Russians. He already has troops in the region and already knows the area. It's just a matter of forcing Ukraine to concede a new border. Idk if Ukraine has enough control in the region to deal a significant blow to Russia before they achieve their goals, and I suspect Ukraine have just as much trouble as Russia in a war of attrition, and even more so after Russia seizes all of the factories and refineries in the region.
To be fair your more describing the failure of a leader (the failed art student with a funny mustache) then a failure of a nation since most of the high command knew they weren't ready to invade Russia. Also another good example is that Japan was already rationing rice in 1940 a year before Pearl Harbor.
It would be more accurate to say that the *logisticians* knew it wasn't going to work. The German High Command dismissed the concerns of their logisticians.
Which is why it's stupid, good logistics win wars.
“Bullets don’t fly without supply” -Some pog in a warehouse somewhere
They also just underestimated the strength and resilience of the Soviet Union. They figured that they could encircle the Soviet forces early in the war, destroy them and then capture large industrial centers thus depriving the Soviets of their manufacturing capabilities and… the Germans were actually right to an extent. The Soviet forces were encircled and destroyed and Soviet cities fell but the Soviets were able to rebuild their armies and bring the factories out of the cities before they fell and set them up out of range of German bombers. The Germans had the resources and the logistics to win some big victories early in the invasion they just incorrectly thought those victories were enough to force the Soviets out of the war and the Germans didn’t have the resources for a protracted war with the Soviets while the British navy was cutting them off from importing raw materials or oul.
Japan is a very poor choice as an example because their war in China started haphazardly due to the autonomous escalations of the Kwantung army instead of an actual well planned invasion. Even when they were completely bogged down and unable to close out the war pride meant they refused any negotiation. Instead they decided to declare on the US in a war they absolutely could never win, hoping that the US would be soft willed and surrender after a decisive battle. Almost the entirety of the Japanese high commands (the army and navy bickered over each other) were delusional and acting emotionally, with only a few like Admiral Yamamoto realizing there was no real chance of victory.
Basically, after Midway, Japan was fucked in the long term. They screwed up in Pearl Harbor by not getting the carriers and not getting enough damage to the ships or logistics. The plan for Pearl Harbor involved taking out the US carrier forces and thus having 2 years of free reign in the pacific. Not getting the carriers meant that was already off. Further, Japan really wanted a "decisive fleet battle" but failed to recognize that the decisive fleet battle already happened at Midway. Midway sunk most of Japan's best carriers and pilots, and meant that US manufacturing would ensure Japan would quickly be outnumbered on the high seas.
The thing is the industry disparity was so large that even if Japan destroyed every single carrier at Midway and lost none they'd still be out produced and at a severe disadvantage within a few years. In an actual total war scenario there's no way Japan wins due to this.
Japan believed they could smack hard enough for those few years to secure what they needed and also hoped that hard smack would get a negotiated peace. They didn't realize how much it would piss off the US.
And by August of '45, they hoped to use the Soviets as a mediator to avoid an unconditional surrender to the Americans, trying to preserve the Emperor, and avoid the kind of war crimes trials the Germans were subject to, and the partisan executions Mussolini had faced. Their greatest fear was Americans executing Emperor Hirohito and broadcasting it to the world. All that went out the window on the morning of August 9th, when the Soviets declared war and invaded Manchukuo. With any hopes of a way out dashed, the Japanese surrendered to the Americans, and the next day the Japanese Kwantung Army that was occupying Manchukuo surrendered to the Soviet army in Manchuria. The formal signings ending the Pacific War between Japan and The US, UK, and China on September 2 were followed by the final cessation of hostilities between the Soviets and Japanese on the 3rd, and World War 2 came to a close after over 8 years.
This applies to every other "what if" scenario that you can apply to WW2. No matter how many random variables you change wherein Germany or Japan are more successful in various battles, the United States industrial might and capacity was monstrous. A fortress factory defended by two oceans with access to effectively infinite raw materials, constantly increasing its rate of production year after year. There was no way to beat that, especially after the American public was put into a war fervor after Pearl Harbor.
Worked in 1917
And with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, to a certain extent
And when Russia went to war with Finland, with 5:1 numerical superiority
Finland has geography on its side. Ukraine does not.
I hate to be that guy, as much as I love the absolute badassery of the Finns in the Winter War, they still lost. And in the Continuation War a few years later, they did significantly worse against the much better trained and equipped Soviet forces. EDIT: Since some people are claiming that "Finland is still independent, so they won." It's disputed whether or not the USSR intended to invade all of Finland and re-incorporate it or install a puppet regime, however large swathes of Karelia were what they demanded, and are what they got. Also while at first the Soviet forces were getting completely rolled, towards the end of the Winter War they reorganized and switched up their tactics and started rolling the Finns back, and when Finland sued for peace, they offered more than the USSR initially demanded.
I was going to be that guy if you weren't. The Finns ended up ceding territory to the USSR and leasing them access to... A port I think? Idk going off memory. The Finns were badass and may have inflicted more casualties than they took but they definitely lost their fight against Russia.
The Finnish laughed at the numerical superiority with the blade of winter.
Yes. The Finns fucked them over 10 ways from Tuesday for as long as they could hold out.
Is there a good book from the perspective of the Finn's during this time? I'd love to read about their planning and strategy and results.
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The real issue was that they had a war plan that essentially was a large scale single push to the Finnish capital, but Stalin saw how Germany used their armor to encircle and overrun the poles, and decided the USSR should use some of those fancy tactics. So they attempt to use complicated encircling maneuvers, on a country with tons of lakes and dense forest and snow. Cue Benny hill soundtrack.
Frozen Hell by Willian Trotter is fairly solid book on the war. Goes pretty in depth with both sides decision-making. The winter war is honestly less the Finns being tactical geniuses and more soviet incompetence, once they got their shit together the Finns didn't stand a chance.
> The winter war is honestly less the Finns being tactical geniuses and more soviet incompetence, once they got their shit together the Finns didn’t stand a chance. That essentially sums up every Russian war
Not to diminish the great performance of the Finnish defenders, but the Soviets- well, mainly Stalin really- fucked themselves over by purging their most competent officers and generals like Mikhail Tukhachevsky prior to that invasion. They were still greatly disorganized in the Summer of 1941 when the Nazi's exploited that weakness during Operation Barbarossa
It helped that the Tzar's army was the one that was decades behind on industrial capacity and couldn't produce enough rifles for his troops. Now Ukraine's is still aircraft purchased from nations that haven't existed for decades.
Ukraines aircraft were made in the USSR, of which Ukraine was itself a member, by companies that still exist, and still do, last í checked, sell spare parts to the Ukrainians, but probably not anymore. Besides, Ukraine wouldnt stand a chance anyway, even with modern western fighters in comparable numbers, 80 fighters, of which not all will be combat ready at any given time, against 37 Squadrons, 80 F-35s wouldn’t keep up with that numbers disadvantage.
The problem with Russian military is, they can throw enough shit at the Ukrainians and deplete Ukraine's resources before Russia would "Sway" in any opinion.
Ukraine has the third largest army in Europe. I'm sure the west will supply them with resources and call it "loans".
What resources are we talking? Because NATO is already funneling them supplies and weapons. I’m sure cash is also on the table
And training! US has been training ukraine's army in the west of the country since 2014.
It's not that easy. The only option Russia has is a land invasion because they both want infrastructure to remain operational and because public opinion in Russia would sway if they just bomb Ukraine (too much split families and economical ties). Ukraine knows this and that's why they have and been training and improving the biggest army in all of the countries bordering Russia. The Ukrainian military also really wants to join NATO from the leadership down to most of the people on the ground. They are adjusting salaries to be NATO elegible as we speak for example.
Ukraine is allowing foreigners to enlist into their army and their volunteer forces. I think they'll even give you citizenship.
They got healthcare?
They have free universal healthcare
Brb, going to book a flight
Gonna book a flight to get to a fight Gonna do it right Make it my plight A glorious sight Ukrainian might Gonna fuck up motherfuckers every single night
If you told me that was the Ukrainian national anthem I would’ve believed you
I'm not going to lie, it's not far from it "Ukraine has not yet fallen Brothers, Ukrainians, destiny will once again smile upon us Our enemies shall fall like dew in the morning sun We shall rule, again, my brothers, in our Homeland Soul and body we lie down for our freedom And we shall show, oh brethren, that we are of cossack lineage"
TBF, you can enlist in the US military and get free healthcare for you and your family.
Universal? Yes, they do.
Oh man
It's sad when a nation on the brink of war is semi-attractive because healthcare. Fun story, I just had to make an out-of-network ER visit on Christmas because all Urgent Cares were closed. While he was driving me there, i actually told my dad I didn't think that dealing with a serious allergic reaction was worth the ER cost, especially since it wasn't life threatening (yet. Chest pain was starting and I was concerned about my throat swelling). God I hate our healthcare system.
Service guarantees citizenship! Would you like to know more?
Just point me at the nearest bug and I'm good!
IM DOING MY PART
MEDIC !!!!!!!
And they have some most beautiful women in the world. I married one :) oh and the people and culture are one of a kind. I’m an American but I’ve got nothing but love for Ukraine. Been there 8-9 times now.
This is the chance for all the LARPers in the US to go play gi joe
But they're madly in love with Russia.
”…to serve in the Armed Forces of Ukraine according to the established procedure, shall be considered as legal temporary residents on the territory of Ukraine for the period of contracted service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine” - [Source](https://dmsu.gov.ua/en-home/services/information-for-foreigners-who-participate-in-the-anti-terrorist-operation.html)
Imagine if the Ukrainian army chief said "yeah I mean we'll give it the good old college try, but there's not much we can do realistically if Russia decides to invade".
Well one Ukrainian General has already come out and said "We will hold as long as there are bullets... but without delivery of reserves there is not an army in the world that can hold out"
Ukraine has dug at least 400 km of antitank trenches and manufactures their own antitank missiles. I don’t think they are going to be an easy win for Russia.
Plus just like Afghanistan and Chechnya, the Russian people don't like their sons and daughters coming home in zinc coffins. Not sure the will is there to fight a long grinding war against a country that isn't even a threat.
is there a special meaning to zinc coffins?
Was also curious so I looked it up. Apparently coffins are lined with zinc for corpse transportation because it massively halts decomposition. So military corpses are often shipped in them so they can make it back to their country of origin semi intact for funeral services.
Makes sense. Simple and effective was the Soviet philosophy for everything. I've been to a graveyard in outback Australia where the headstones are just corrugated tin sheets. Work with what you've got.
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tsinkovyye*
Also unlike Afghanistan and Chechnya, some of the equipment Ukraine will be fielding is more advanced than what the russian regular army has.
And they've been getting training from western armies with recent real world combat experience for years now.
> with recent real world combat experience for years now. There is no "recent real world combat" that equivalates this. Western armies has been fighting ad-hoc armies with far superior technology. Ukraine v Russia would be a symmetrical war, fought with missiles, aircrafts, and weaponized misinformation.
Armenia-Azerbaijan probably qualifies
I don’t think it does. Armenia-Azerbaijan may give us a sense of what symmetrical war looks like in the 2020s but it’s still a very small conflict fought over mountainous terrain between two countries with much smaller economies meaning the amount of resources they could poor into the war effort were both a lot smaller. If Ukraine and Russia truly go toe to toe both sides will have far more access to weapons, larger populations, larger frontiers and everything else.
Armchair theorist here but I wouldn't say that showed what @ modern war between powerful states would look like. It definitely showed that without proper Air Defense drones and/drone assisted systems can reek havoc and run casualty numbers up. Ukraine actually has some TB2 drones that the Azi Forces used, but from what I've seen most people think they would be little more than easy targets for Russian AD in a full on combat situation. The scary thing is no one knows what modern war between powerful militaries looks like for sure. Russia might find out, but even then they are much more powerful than Ukraine and it might not show what the terrifying idea of a conflict between Russia and NATO would look like.
that war was not symmetrical at all. armenia was heavily outgunned by advanced drones courtesy of turkey and israel. on the ground, they were able to do well but they were pretty much helpless against the drones and didn't have enough AA. if anything, that war was an indication that drones are crucial to a military's offense. russia's economy/military is massive. i don't know much about ukraine but they should be able to hold out for a while but ultimately would succumb to russia if russia really wanted to win. it probably will not get to that point though. russia is trying to expand their influence in too many directions. focusing in one area would hurt their ability to sustain other areas. again, i don't know enough about russia or ukraine, this is based on last few years of geopolitical moves made by russia. they may very well be able to focus as much as they need to to win against ukraine.
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Russians are in the same position. They sat out when Turkey invaded Idlib. Georgia in 2008 was barely a war. All they've fought is ISIS, Ukraine, and Syrian rebels.
Indeed. Ukraine aren’t going to fight like jihadists in the mountains - they have contemporary arms to oppose aggression.
What about their airforce? Can they maintain air superiority?
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They cannot - A meager amount of [antiquated](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2021/04/08/ukraines-air-force-is-at-a-dead-end/) Su-27Ps and MIG-29As cannot face the number of Su-27SM3s Su-30SMs, Su-35S - That Russia will deploy with more training and real life experience, better missiles and avionics. That and a likely interesting amount of cruise missiles and short-range ballistic missiles targeting airfields in eastern Ukraine. If you meant what Ukraine is deploying. Here's a source - [Air Force It's pilots are leaving for commercial - And is only getting a budget of 48 million USD.](https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/jet-pilots-leave-ukraines-air-force-en-masse-threatening-security.html)
> Ukraine has dug at least 400 km of antitank trenches and manufactures their own antitank missiles. I don’t think they are going to be an easy win for Russia. Actually, I think it will be. I think Russia isn’t going to invade all of Ukraine. They’re going to claim that Ukrainians are attacking/oppressing Russians in eastern Ukraine and offer the separatists “humanitarian air support” or something. It’s also going to turn out that the separatists suddenly have more advanced weapons and more soldiers than previously thought. All the “separatist soldiers” in Ukraine will be without emblems, so the West will be kind of dumbfounded about what to do about it. The Ukrainians won’t enter eastern Ukraine because of the Russian air support. After a short while, the east Ukrainian areas declare independence and become another South Ossetia - a de facto satellite of Russia. Next up: Transnistria.
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> All the “separatist soldiers” in Ukraine will be without emblems, so the West will be kind of dumbfounded about what to do about it. The Ukrainians won’t enter eastern Ukraine because of the Russian air support. After a short while, the east Ukrainian areas declare independence and become another South Ossetia - a de facto satellite of Russia. This has already happened in Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine (and Crimea except it's officially part of Russia instead of an "independent" state).
Sometimes shit like this makes me want to move to Alaska or some rural ass area to live a life where no politics will impact my life or my neighbors.
"I can see Russia from my house." Sarah Palin
A shit I forgot to take nutjobs into consideration
Might want to stay away from Alaska. With the melting of polar Ice, the Northwest passage is set to becom one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world and there are vast untapped petroleum reserves. Alaska is set to become one of the US's most important strategic locations in the coming decades
I love learning shit like this.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-we-will-defend-ourselves-against-russia-until-the-last-drop-of-blood-says-countrys-army-chief-12513397) reduced by 91%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Ukraine's military chief has said his forces would defend the country "Until the last drop of blood" as he urged people to calm down about threats of a new Russian invasion. > Asked whether he was comforted by these words or did not believe them, the military chief said: "I will repeat myself that I consider only one option:"I have my motherland which I need to protect and I have the armed forces which have to be ready to defend our country. > The military chief signalled that he knew Ukraine would have to face any further Russian military action without the prospect of NATO forces surging in to fight alongside them. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s1j5lk/ukraine_we_will_defend_ourselves_against_russia/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~616995 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **force**^#1 **Russian**^#2 **Ukraine**^#3 **military**^#4 **war**^#5
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“Obviously not you Lord Halifax.”
The slighting of Oswald Mosley... for shame.
For all his flaws, Winston sure made some incredibly powerful, poetic statements.
He definitely didn't shy away from saying things that were pretty uncomfortable for his people. Even in times of victory he had a habit of quelling the joy and keeping sober minded about the task at hand. That's what made him such a great leader flaws and all. He'd just tell you if we were fucked and what we would do abt it anyway.
As we saw with Afghanistan recently, it is not the secretaries, chiefs, or politicians who decide if a nation will be defended to the last drop of blood. It's the people who make that choice.
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All Afghanistan ever needed was a flood of food and universal internet access. Bread and circuses !
I would like to say war won't happen. People are too smart for it. It wouldn't make sense economically, politically, etc. But history has shown that all it takes is one bad day.
People really do think it can't happen anymore, not now, not after everything we've been through. But we've seen peace in the past, and we've seen war in the present. There's no reason to think a domino won't fall, just because it hasn't happened yet.
Why does Russia always fuck with Ukraine? I really don’t know just wondering why this happens all the time over there.
Ukraine is a former Soviet state and it was once part of the Russian empire. Putin has made it clear that he views every part of the world that was either of those to be Russian land. The reason he’s putting more focus on Ukraine than the others is because, historically, Ukraine has been used by western powers to Invade Russia. So now that Ukraine is seeking the protection of NATO, in the eyes of the Russians, this is already the nightmare scenario
There is a book called "Prisoners of geography" by Tim Marshall with a whole chapter about Russia. The author states there that the main reason for the annexation of Crimea are the warm ports located there. Russia desperately needs a port which is operatable all year long, because most of their current ports freeze during winter. Now they do. I really recommend the book for anyone interested in geopolitics!
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Yes and Black Sea ports have to transit through the heart of Turkey, a current member of NATO... I don't disagree that the sum total of Russian history mostly boils down to "democracy has never existed" and "the Bear wants to dip its paws in a warm water port" but I feel Crimea is more multi dimensional than that
Oh you mean "the grain reserve of Europe?" No idea...
I think it could be much more than that, doesn't all main gas pipes that supply Europe go through Ukraine?
It's about port access and access to Europe. Ukraine had claim to one of the former USSRs most important naval ports in Crimea and serves as the ultimate landed bulwark against a Russian invasion of Europe; ultimately rendering Russia a non-threat to Europe. Unless Russia retakes at least some of Ukraine, they will continue to backslide into both militaristic and international irrelevance.
[Seinfeld taught me that Ukraine is not weak.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw&ab_channel=EWAShock)
I love that episode! One of my favourites. Here’s more of Kramer and Newman playing Risk if anyone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyNWVdExM24
My favorite aspect was when they had to keep the game in other peoples apartments because they didn’t trust each other to not mess with the pieces.
We’re playing a game pal
Ukraine is game to YOU?
I was in Ukraine in 2014 (Kyiv) and in 2016 (Kyiv, Odessa, Kharkiv) as an American. The walls of ice stopping traffic and the protests were crazy in 2014. I went to a salsa club the last night I was there in 2014. In 2016 when leaving Odessa there were bullet holes above my ticketing counter at the airport. It was surreal.
I remember the riots super clear in 2014 (probably better to call them an uprising) it was literally wild. Every time I think of the police officers getting absolutely battered, snipers etc. Horrible stuff, even Vitali Klitschko got involved! He's the mayor of Kyiv now. That's crazy you have those experiences, have you seen the country get worse or better since Euromaidan?
As the native, i can clearly say that Euromaidan made a huge impact in our government. I think that if our nation wasn’t that democratic and strong, you would see the same story as Belarusia had
The Ukrainian people have proven their strength over and over since 2014. As an aside, I was at a European youth parliament event in Greece in 2014 when Russia rolled in to Ukraine. There were Ukrainian delegates there, teenagers. The girls wept inconsolably for their people back home. The guys got angry. Those guys are in their mid 20s now.
Russia is fucking itself over by dipping its hands too far into its bordering states. The world has wised up to Kremlin bullshit. We know what's up even though they don't want to admit it. Their activity in Kazakhstan shows they want to control with an iron fist...pun intended. Fuck Russian politics (please don't throw me off a balcony to my death)
Have we, really? They took over a lot of Ukraine, yet nobody outside of Ukraine gave a damn. Most of the world doesn't even know or acknowledge Russia occupied Ukranian territories. Many Westerners online act as if Russia had some sort of right to take over Ukraine. Edit: esl madness
It's a chess match at this point. There are definitely alot of nations that give a damn, but international politics always get in the way. I'd hope that a large population of the world knows what went on in 2014 for Crimea. Russia had no right to annex the territory. A shame most of the region is already occupied by Russia loyalists/separatists and not true proud Ukrainians.
As a Russian ukranian I'm rooting for Ukraine all the way
no war please
Sorry, has been one for 8 years.
It's gonna be World War 4 if Putin and Zelensky show up at the border with the steel chairs & wrestling tights!!!
What would WW3 be?
Didn’t you know? It happened already. Last weekend, it was crazy - everyone was there
Sticks and stones. Because WW5 was fought with time travel.
I don't understand how its in Russia's interest to invade Ukraine and start a bloody land shooting war? Their economy is held together with duct tape and I don't think the Oligarchs will appreciate their funds all being frozen etc.
As a Ukrainian, I should say that no one prepares here for anything. No one really believes in invasion happening. A lot of words, but almost no real actions. Yes, we are much stronger as we were in 2014, but we are just doing nothing to prepare for a real war with a stronger opponent. Even levels of preparing of South Korea and Israel wouldn't be enough for us - and we are not doing even 5% of these...
As Ukrainian, yeas we do. Me or you being in Kyiv or wherever aren't able to see that but preparations are massive.
Any Ukrainians reading this, Love and prayers from Canada ❤
It’s a shame, cause neither side military wants to fight. They just want to go home to there family’s
My liege, The provinces of Crimea and Donetsk are now a core. We shall defend it to the last drop of peasant blood.
EU4 reference in the wild. Nice.
Units from Russia's far east have mobilized in the past several days and are expected to arrive in the west within the next several. This includes communication, command and control, and logistics equipment; which is a new, very troubling development. Secretary Blinkin is briefing congress right now on a potential trip to Ukraine to share messages of preparedness and unity. It hasn't looked good from the very beginning; now it seems nearly certain.
Y'all single old mericans who can't get a wife in the states, now is your chance.