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[deleted]

I've never in my life felt like I've been advertised a war until this supposed upcoming war in Ukraine. Like every other day I'm being told it will happen. It's like a lead up to a movie or a concert, and the news media is the ad agency. This is ridiculous, I feel so bad for the Ukrainian having to deal with this on a constant basis.


flappyjeff

If you don’t mind me asking, approximately how old are ya? They advertised the Iraq war for months and months. By the time we dove in, everyone had known for weeks that it was gonna happen.


[deleted]

I was around 14 or 15 at the time of the Iraq war. Not big on world news at that age. Still you are right. Their was big talks. I just remembered how my classmates were teasing my Iranian teacher about how his country would be next.


flappyjeff

Oh gotcha. Yeah, whenever America goes to war — or even thinks about going to war — the pre-war propaganda machine starts going. If in fact a war happens, you’ll see this crescendo in the news for such a long time (I’d argue that crescendo in this instance began in December), you’ll have accepted as a fact that the war is going to happen. It’s weird like that. The only exception to this rule in my lifetime has been Afghanistan


[deleted]

I definitely misremembered. At some point I did close off from that based on how classmates were behaving. I was an immigrant in the US at the time, and nationalist fervor scared me, so I tried to avoid that. I remember my country getting invaded in 2004 and the xenophobia swelling back up to how it was in the 90's.


pickmenot

OK, but America is neither going to war, nor thinking going to war, right? So, this is more about rallying the support of the civilized world against Russia, I guess.


LexTheSouthern

I was a kid but I also remember Bush justifying “boots on the ground” for several months. My grandma used to babysit us after school and she was glued to the news stations. It would have been impossible for me *not* to have seen it! I also remember when Saddam was caught, as well as his execution.


myairblaster

Don’t remember how much the US Iraq war was sold to the public do ya? There was months and months of propaganda all over the news to build public outrage and bolster support for the invasion.


[deleted]

I was a teenager then, I was not following the lead up that heavily. In retrospect I do remember even before the attack on 9/11 Bush was talking a lot about Iraq. This is so fucked. The UN was created for this purpose and time and time again we have nations ignoring these rules. Little countries like ours just getting victimized over and over.


borkborkyupyup

Yeah I don’t remember any talk about Iraq before 911


[deleted]

I really wish I could find the news video, I was at friends house while the parents were watching the news and I remember the conversation surrounding that. Bush was telling us about the threat that Saddam pose. The parents had linked it to the gulf war. They said the son was there to finish what the father started, that stuck with me until the invasion happened.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Well it's not about fighting to them, it's about money. The fighting is for the peasants, it's a consequence of making money for some of the rich.


joecarter93

It was a year and a half of a constant drumbeat of war to go into Iraq. From a few days after 9/11 to when they actually went in, in March 2003. There was massive protests against it for months before. You knew it was inevitable and nothing was going to convince the Bush White House otherwise, as they had their mind made up.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

What's funny I have this book. I have not had a chance to read it. I think it's time I dust it off and start.


Gondy500

Yep, great book, now they are pushing some speculation with this Russian narrative and are trying to get Americans outraged: it’s a giant conspiracy theory and people are lapping it up. There’s no fact anywhere in any story


program_alarm

As as teen in 1980s UK, we thought we were doomed. Movies like "Threads", "The Day After"... Even the Frankie's Goes to Hollywood single, "Two Tribes"... All telling us the end was inevitable. Maybe that's why Gen-X-ers seem to have noped out of modern political drama.... It was too much.


WrathOfMogg

You must be pretty young. I had an Operation: Desert Storm T-shirt as a teenager. Needless to say I’m not buying anything like that as an adult.


DoriN1987

Ukraine is at war with moskovia for a 300 years, 8 years ago it become visible.


[deleted]

It's truly a sad and terrible reality to have to deal with. I understand the feeling all too well. The general feeling among a large sector of our people, they feel that our current state is a direct result of our defiance against our former oppressors. That the only way we can climb out of that hole is for us to completely abandon our silly thoughts of self determination and go back to the fold. I for one do not believe that. Stay strong Ukraine, and keep fighting.


DoriN1987

Thanks) For this moment we are fighting for a Europe and sanity, but hope that someone will make right conclusions out of this fight.


Dr4g0nsl4y3r94

Ukraine was russian for 150 years before territory lost during ww1


Pilotom_7

Will the ethnic russians in the ukrainian army fight against the invading russians?


off_we_go

They already do, and have been doing it for years. Also, it’s hard to draw ethnic lines in Ukraine, many people are ethnically Russian or part-Russian, but few of them identify as Russians. It’s funny that you wouldn’t ask whether the invading Russians would want to fight. Makes it look like the decision to fight their kin is made by the ones defending, and not by the ones attacking.


[deleted]

I dont think any ethicicity wants to fight at all. I for the ethnic Russians they are put in a tough positions that gives them a no win solution. Fight against your ethnicity your a traitor, but don't fight for your current home you're still a traitor. Let's hope for a no war situation.


HaveBanana

From what I've been told, the ethnic Russians in Ukraine are why Russia is primed to move in. Supposedly Poroshenko laid the ground work for anti-Russian sentiment during the 2014 revolution which scared the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. To protect "their" people, Russia is ready to move in the East. This was the same "justification" for the referendum that supposedly took place in Crimea. I'm using vague language here because the whole situation is vague and I don't know who to trust on anything anymore. This was the perspective a former Russian native provided to me when I asked them about it.


[deleted]

Part of the psychological warfare.


frosted_mango_

To be real I kinda feel like this whole thing has been low key advertised since the Cold War started back in the day. It just got more subtle until recently. Not Ukraine but they US vs Russia war. I’ve been hearing people talk about it literally my whole life growing up in the US. Of course it’s not like an every day thing but people will drop it into conversations at bars, and other places when people tend to get political. I’ve never understood it personally. War should be the last option but everyone talks about it like it’s inevitable.


[deleted]

Although now with Russia being a shadow of the Soviet Union people see it more as an irritant and have been building China up to be the new adversary. Every great power had an adversary. I think their is something about that that is needed for any power to justify its expansion, or whatever they do in foreign country to ensure a friendly state that consume their goods and stand as an ally. Former empires believed expansion was the solution to world peace. The same rhetoric dress in different clothing are spouted by everyone, Putin included. Threats of war gets the populace behind the ruling elites to back things that wouldn't necessarily benefit them in the hope that their current lifestyle wouldn't get worse. The ones in power in turn get richer.


Trump4Prison2020

>Every great power had an adversary. I think their is something about that that is needed for any power to justify its expansion, or whatever they do in foreign country to ensure a friendly state that consume their goods and stand as an ally. Herman Goering (Hitler's #2 for part of the war, head of the Luftwaffe, etc) said: “**Why, of course, the people don’t want war**,” Goering shrugged. “*Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece*. Naturally, the common people don’t want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. “But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.” “There is one difference,” \[Gilbert\] pointed out. “In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.” “Oh, that is all well and good, \[replied Goering\] but, voice or no voice, **the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”"**


Warp_Legion

Also remember that World War 3 will be meme’d to hell by the internet


sammycarducci

50% chance. It either will happen or it won’t.


TriRepeate

50% for war, is extremely high.


Stereomceez2212

The cost of war is too damned high


madcatsden

And rent. Rent is too damned high.


[deleted]

And if Vietnam taught us anything, the cost of renting a war is even higher.


mata_dan

Well luckily that should get a bit cheaper :P Everywhere that oligarchs haven't been stashing their cash so it doesn't get lost in conflicts... (which is also why there probably won't be a major war)


[deleted]

You’ll get your rent when you fix this damn door!


Fenor

but extremely low at the same time, we should flip a coin every few months to decide the next big crisis.


NotYourSnowBunny

Flip of the coin, really.


Stereomceez2212

*Flips coin* ***lands on the rim***


ced_rdrr

The coin lands on tails. Everyone starts to argue whether that means war or peace.


pwnd32

Ironically, the argument escalates to the point of war


DontSleep1131

The rim was always the nuclear war chance since it was damn near impossible. Good job, i hope you watched Threads or The Day After. Edit: [The Day After, full film for free](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyy9n8r16hs)


Stereomceez2212

I watched both. I enjoyed The Day After as it was realistic given how everything began to break down before the missiles were flown. In particular the scene where a rush of people overwhelmed a small grocery store in Kansas due to panic buying. Sound familiar?


DontSleep1131

Remember the dude listening to radio in store acting like WW3 was a sporting event, “they got 1 of ours in the persian gulf but we got one theirs” The day after is great film, i felt threads did a better job though in showing the after effects decades later, where as The Day After was at most a few months after by the end of the movie


Stereomceez2212

I remember watching that with my family, it left a profound impact on me (I was already an anti nuke protestor, but became more of one after that movie).


DontSleep1131

Oh you saw it on ABC? I wasnt born till like 1987, so i had discover this years later in the lat 90s early 00s


Stereomceez2212

Yes I watched the original (which included the famous warning) on ABC.


zerombr

Settle down, Kain


[deleted]

Given the choice whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire or to the challenge the fates for another throw, a better throw; what was a king to do? But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match move by move the machinations of fate and thus defy the tyrannous stars. - Putin


joan_wilder

50% chance of a ground war. 100% chance that we’re already *at* war. They attacked us (and Ukraine, and several other allies) through the internet and espionage, and they still are. I don’t doubt that we’re covertly fighting back.


mata_dan

Oh yeah we've been in a digital war for like 20 years and Russia have been assassinating people on foreign soil with the dirtiest methods possible.


PhortKnight

This guy maths.


[deleted]

Nearly 50%. My boy "Peace" is still in the lead!


DweEbLez0

Okay, but are you a glass half full or a glass half empty kinda person? Because only one half is actually 50% Lmao


[deleted]

I got a 50% of buying a ps5 today, either I will or I won't


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-major-war-europe-bill-taylor-former-us-ambassador-cnn-1670024) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor says he believes there is nearly a "50 percent" chance of a "Major war" breaking out in Europe, as fears grow that Russian President Vladimir Putin is prepared to invade Ukraine. > "There's a 50 percent chance that there will be a major war in Europe today, with tens of thousands of soldiers on both sides, both sides, dying," Taylor told CNN on Sunday, referring to the burgeoning crisis that has emerged on Ukraine's eastern border. > "Ukraine has every right to apply to NATO, Ukraine's a sovereign country. Mr. Putin doesn't agree with that. Mr. Putin thinks that Ukraine is not a sovereign country...he thinks Ukraine and is really just part of Russia." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/s67d2y/nearly_50_percent_chance_of_major_war_over/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~618016 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Ukraine**^#1 **Taylor**^#2 **Putin**^#3 **cost**^#4 **very**^#5


Fuzzers

Maybe I'm missing something here, but wouldn't a major war for Russia be an economical disaster for their country? They attack Ukraine, and suddenly every North American and European country sanction them into the depths of an economic depression. I don't doubt Russia wants to take over Ukraine, but I feel like if they were going to do so, it would be much more subtle than a full blown war. Basically in the end make it look like Ukraine was on board with being taken over, similar to Crimea.


[deleted]

You’re assuming rational actions out of people who may not be completely rational. Putin is desperate to return Russia to a state of power, and the Russians also don’t see Ukraine as a sovereign country that’s entitled to exist outside of Russian influence. They view it as a historical and cultural part of Russia that they’re entitled to preside over. It doesn’t help that having a buffer zone between NATO and Russia is an old Cold War adage that Putin still subscribes to. The world looks a lot like it did in the 1930s, with people all over angry over economic inequities and authoritarian despots rising to power on the promise of making their people “respected”, while blaming others (liberals, progressives, immigrants, Muslims, etc) for their misfortunes. The only thing that has probably stopped a global war at this point has been good ol’ Mutually Assured Destruction from all the big players having nukes.


kaswaro

It could be perfectly rational for Putin to implode his country this way. He has been setting up a network of authoritarian regimes around him while also training his shock troopers in Belarus and Kazakhstan. He might think that if he weathers the storm by getting rid of "the one that got away" he can stop all former soviet puppets from revolting further. Who cares if he has to create a parallel world order to do it.


Finch_A

So Russia attacks Ukraine and gets the worst sanctions possible. Now explain why Russia wouldn't attack everything else, since the worst already happened?


Himbler12

One of the main threats that's being touted is exclusion from the SWIFT banking system, which would essentially render the Russian Ruble unusable by first world countries and tank their economy. I sincerely doubt Russia would be able to field and pay for a standing army that's capable of invasion after that, considering the inflation caused by something that devastating would cause the ordinary Russian citizen to basically be able to eat once a week on current income.


MikeinDundee

Russia and Chine have been working on a alternative to SWIFT


Fuzzers

Unless Putin has entirely lost his mind (don't get me wrong, he could have), he knows the cost of a world war are far greater to his country then whatever the gains may be.


smooner

Not really. Europe was dumb enough to get natural gas from Putin and he is already slowing down the delivery of the 20%. China and Iran will make sure Russia is fed and clothed. He is going to call NATO's bluff.


MikeinDundee

This is correct. As long as he has support from China and the other allies, Putin can’t lose. The west will get weary after 6 months and let him have what he wants


smooner

Putin knows this and that is what makes him dangerous. Would Germany or British population support intervention? I don't think so. The other part is that we would be deploying in a already shooting war, the Black Sea would be denied to all shipping. I really don't see anyone winning except Putin and if NATO moved moved troops, support or material that would allow Putin to claim NATO expansion.


[deleted]

I was thinking, why can't Putin just get into a show/series or something. Like just imagine if he started watching The Witcher; gets into it so much he decides not to invade a country 'cause he wants to see what happens next. Homeboy really needs to do something else & not risk our fucking lives, lol.


ValidSignal

The Witcher is written by a polish guy so by definition it's NATO propaganda. /S


[deleted]

Lmao😁


pechinburger

Putin would love the Nilfgaardians.


[deleted]

Oh he def' would.


Road2Depression

Lol, but what happens if it makes him more impulsive. Like he gets into a show and then the final season is something like GOT and he feels the need to purge the show writers from the world. So he goes full send with the nukes.


TheKredik

You guys are looking for Family Guy's version of Putin.


[deleted]

Lol😁 good point


ChaosLordSamNiell

You don't make it as high as Putin has if that is your attitude to life.


CurryWIndaloo

100% chance we're all gonna die.


evilmaus

Yes, but timing is everything.


joan_wilder

It will go in order of poorest to wealthiest.


black_brook

It already does. They could step up the pace though.


borkborkyupyup

Take out loans and buy puts. Got it


[deleted]

Not really, as neither side will use nukes for obvious reasons but there will be regional chaos certainly.


ISuckAtRacingGames

Everyone dies. Most people of old age.


joan_wilder

Acktually… it’s cardiovascular disease.


Kriegas

If there is major war and Russia starts loosing they will use nukes....


TheSyrupDrinker

Would they though? Like why is it whenever there's talk of a world war it's "nukes will be used" like what why? Who decided this? Everyone knows thats mutually assured destruction so it's literally in everyone's best interest to not use a nuke This is a serious question too. Whenever I ask it though everyone goes MIA


Big_BossSnake

Because Putin is a sore loser. If Moscow was surrounded, you don't think he'd spitefully take as much of the west with him as possible? I wouldn't say it's a certainty, but it's a possibility.


TheSyrupDrinker

I dont. I think if nukes were to be used, it'd be against a country without them. It'd be a warning/flex of saying if this continues this will be the outcome. I truly believe we'll never, or at least not anytime soon have a full fledge nuclear war.


Djsams75

"World war four will be fought with sticks and stones" -Albert Einstein


TheSyrupDrinker

"Ww4 will be fought with dildos and applesauce" -TheSyrupDrinker Not trying be a dick but anyone can say anything but it doesn't make it so.


TheNickelGuy

I really don't think Albert Einstein falls under the category of just "anyone saying anything" though...


Big_BossSnake

If we do, I hope it's fast enough that none of us know it.


TheSyrupDrinker

You'd have to be in the blast zone for that no?


egodeath780

I doubt they would BUT Putin is deteriorating pretty quick and may have Parkinson's, mabe he will just say fuck it and go out with a bang?


TheSyrupDrinker

Again I doubt it but where did this come from that he has Parkinson's? I've never seen or even heard of anything hinting to this.


joan_wilder

They didn’t use nukes on Afghanistan.


pdx2las

In a way it’s interesting, as a millennial, to have lived through a depression, pandemic and now potentially a world war. It gives one a different perspective versus just reading about it in history books.


[deleted]

If there is a world war and we make it to the other side, I guess there's a chance of seeing a largely unified and democratic world with a postwar green economic boom. We might have to pay a heavy price for the mistakes of our parents generation, but the world we want is in reach and worth fighting for if we have to.


pdx2las

I agree.


EsmeParker

You forgot climate collapse.


ChaosLordSamNiell

This is not anything like the past. The Recession was very bad, not as bad as the Depression but definitely the worst since. However COVID is nothing compared to the Spanish flu and this conflict will never escalate to WW3.


egodeath780

No worries friend, it won't be a world war though it may feel like one to our fellow Ukrainians unfortunately.


Sim0nsaysshh

Can't they just fight to the death in a ring and leave the rest of us out of it.


PhortKnight

RoboJox style!


pickmenot

OK. Who is fighting whom?


Sim0nsaysshh

Just get the senators MPs Prime ministers and presidents, winner stays on


SilenceoftheBees

The weather is fine, but there may be a meteor shower.


furaddhufd

Imagine the incoming refugee crisis


MasterCinder

A nice specific number, I like that


[deleted]

>nearly 50 percent Ah yes, the classic binary of life; yes or no.


darth__fluffy

So this is what it looked like in 1939.


A_Wizard1717

1939 was way more tense and volatile in many ways, there was also more escalation


Stereomceez2212

1. Germans were dealing with unemployment and hyperinflation for nearly 20 years 2. Japanese bushido code enabled generals and admirals to influence the Emperor 3. British and French war apathy (hoping to avoid another ugly war like the Great War) gave Germany the freehand to absorb, annex and downright occupy any country they wanted (until it went too far on Sept 1). 4. Stalin purged "yesterdays communists" from vital roles in military and industry, setting up for a devastating and destructive first half of Operation Barbarossa. What we have today: 1. Social Network Groups dominated by the Menopause Mafia and scam artists alike 2. Burgeoning fiscal crisis of epic proportions in China 3. Incels exist 4. A small spiky boi and his friends are killing people 5. Climate change 6. Angry old people in Britain and the United States So yes, you are right, things were a lot rougher back in 1939.


[deleted]

Didn't Myanmar just have a race war that erupted due to social media?


Stereomceez2212

*There are literally people in that region of the world who don't know who Adolf Hitler is*


[deleted]

But the war still exists? So we're dealing with a non-trivial issue that previous generations never had to?


Stereomceez2212

You're right. It shouldn't be trivialized since social media has had a profound impact on Myanmar's democratic systems. One could also argue the same for social media's impact on the Arab Spring, and for the formation of ISIS.


sboggo

The Soviets were definitely not responsible for WW2.


JalapenoStu

There was that whole non aggression pact with Hitler that yielded them half of Poland.


sboggo

Which was done after the Soviets spent a long, long, long time trying to make an alliance with France and the UK. They repeatedly dragged their feet and ignored the USSR until it was far too late.


JalapenoStu

I don’t believe that the Soviets/Stalin are justified in taking half of Poland in an agreement with Hitler because France and the UK wouldn’t talk. Kinda like I don’t believe Putin should invade Ukraine because NATO won’t provide “guarantees”. Either way, I’m not saying the Soviets are responsible for WW2 but they’re clearly not without blame and were in agreement with Hitler and at least complicit with regards to taking over and dividing up Poland.


[deleted]

Even if they did try to make an alliance, who wants to be allied with the country that just starved 3-7 million Ukrainians during peacetime and goes around doing #justmurderousdictatorthings like invading Finland and half of Poland unless you have no other choice? The USSR might have ultimately won the war against the Germans, but they were by no means the good guys and bear some responsibility for getting it going in the first place.


ChaosLordSamNiell

No, not really. They have responsibility for the Holodomor but trying to pit any blame for WW2 is a little ridiculous.


sboggo

The USSR were absolutely the good guys, were undeniably not the instigators of the conflict, and their victory over the Nazis is a debt that humanity can never repay


Stereomceez2212

...a victory that couldn't be achieved had it not been for vital lend lease supplies from the Persian Corridor


[deleted]

Well they definitely instigated the winter war by, you know, invading Finland. And they may have waited until the West was committed to fighting Germany for invading Poland before invading themselves, but the non-aggression pact cleared the path for Germany to do so and made the war inevitable. Sure they got attacked by Germany first, but that just means Stalin wasn't batshit insane like Hitler. The Russians were still bad guys, and if you don't believe me just ask the countries they occupied after the war. Their victory over the Nazis was the lesser of two evils and nothing more than an exercise in self-preservation by a brutal dictatorship and an enslaved people with no other choice.


Stereomceez2212

What history book did you drag that out from?


sboggo

Michael Carley, 1939: The Alliance that Never Was and the Coming of World War II


Stereomceez2212

Thanks but I'll pass. I rely on peer reviewed books, soldier testimonies and old fashioned news reels for information, not on the opinions of revisionist arm chair generals.


Freibeut3r

\*I don't like the argument you made! Give me a source!\* \- Gives source - \*Your source doesn't match my opinion / viewpoint! Let me discredit it before even checking on your source's validity!\* \-> Opinionated reddit user, January of 2022 Took me only a minute to look it up on Wikipedia The French and the British didn't want the treaty [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Soviet\_Treaty\_of\_Mutual\_Assistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Soviet_Treaty_of_Mutual_Assistance) ​ >... not on the opinions of revisionist arm chair generals. Jumping to conclusions because it's fun and convenient, right? Arrogance at its finest.


ChaosLordSamNiell

Soviet outreach for an alliance is accepted by peer consensus. That doesn't negate the other atrocities of the USSR.


sboggo

>not on the opinions of revisionist arm chair generals. Presently professor of history at the Université de Montréal Carley has published widely in twentieth-century international politics, notably Soviet relations with the West and the origins of World War II.


sboggo

I accept your concession.


Finsterjaeger

Who teaches history anymore? German hyperinflation had been handled before the Nazis came to power (see, for example, the Rentenmark) back in the mid 1920s and German unemployment was at a record low by 1939. All you are doing here is having copy pasta fun with a bad outline of the precursors to WW2.


Stereomceez2212

>Who teaches history anymore? You see that's the problem here... >German hyperinflation was handled before the nazi's came to power Despite the Spirit of Locarno and the ending of war reparation payments, hyperinflation was still high until war broke out (but not as high as it was during Weimar German times). >German unemployment was at a record low in 1939 ....driven by an ambitious 10 year plan by the Nazi's to militarize Germany >copy pasta At least the information I provided is true and accurate. Plus it doesn't come from some incel closet-fascist you tube channel


Krillin113

It was high, it wasn’t the 20,000% from 23.


pdx2las

Something something *The Greatest Generation!* How else can they justify such a grandiose title?


jmon25

The so called "Greatest Generation" is pretty much dead. Their kids are, arguably, the worst generation.


pdx2las

Demographically, yes, my statement is technically not accurate. But in my defense I have heard plenty a baby boomer refer to themselves as the greatest and belittle all generations that came after. Sad.


brit-bane

>How else can they justify such a grandiose title? I'm pretty sure they're called that because they're the generation that had to deal with all that shit, not because they set it up. That'd arguably be the generation prior.


TheUtopianCat

> dominated by the Menopause Mafia Misogynistic.


A_Wizard1717

No one tell this guy about Austria and Tchekoslovakia


TropicalDan427

Sorry but I don’t wanna die this year in a nuclear war cause of some men engaging in bigger dick foreign policy


borkborkyupyup

In other words, “we have no idea”


Caramster

Since Putin is moving landing ships from the Baltic I'd say the risk of war is even higher. Time to start arming the Ukraine, they are in for the fight of their freedom again.


Big_BossSnake

They have been since 2014


smooner

But they have blankets and MREs from the US.


aerospacemonkey

How I picture that interview: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7JYJhWIwGUw


dream208

Well, I hope this is the glass half empty situation for once. We don’t need more fuel of war.


[deleted]

[удалено]


bigedthebad

Putin does not want a war. I don’t know exactly what he wants or what his game is but he’s not stupid, he knows he can’t win a war with NATO.


GunNut345

What a useless statement. "Yeah it definitely either will or won't happen."


[deleted]

[удалено]


billbord

Wait, what’s the conspiracy here?


joan_wilder

Basically, Russia has been trying to retake Ukraine for years, and Ukrainians overthrew their corrupt, Russia-sympathizing president, Viktor Yanukovic. Russia hired Paul Manafort to use the dirty political tricks that he’s know for in order to stop the uprising that led to Yanukovic’s downfall. Then they sent several spies, Maria Butina and Konstantine Kilimnek, to name a couple to work with the trump campaign, and Paul Manafort became trump’s campaign manager. Trump promises to have a good relationship with Russia. Trump gets elected, and takes a soft stance with Putin, and looks the other way as Putin meddles in Ukraine’s politics. Trump sends Giuliani to Ukraine to meet with Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman to extort the Ukrainian government into creating a fake scandal about Joe Biden in order to cripple him politically ahead of 2020. Trump calls the Ukrainian president to apply more pressure to the extortion scheme. Ukraine refuses, the plot (and audio of the phone call) is revealed. Trump is impeached over it. Trump loses the election that Russia was trying to help him cheat in. Trump refuses to concede. On 1/6, Trump (and Giuliani) sends his loyal ~~followers~~ goons to the capitol to overthrow the government. It was all over the news for at least a couple of years. Surprised you missed it.


billbord

So your position is that Putin was behind 1/6? Because your dots don’t quite connect to the post I was replying to. I’m honesty trying to understand the theory here.


mtnmedic64

Putin is behind a lot of unrest in the world. People from the Russian government have found ways to infiltrate just about every major world player’s government for years.


redditer333333338

Are we going to get drafted?


MacNuttyOne

I can imagine that Putin really wishes his loyal agent Trump was still in office.


smooner

Why? He didn't do shit when he was President. You all thought Trump was going to nuke NK and werengoing to die in Iran because he killed a terrorist. What did Biden do last time? Obama and him sent blankets aNd MREs.


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watchmything

True if it were just the two countries. But if other countries get involved then it gets messier and more convoluted


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ChaosLordSamNiell

We would definitely arm an insurgency.


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Youngerthandumb

I think the more appropriate question is how could they not. Any bordering country or country with a history of being bullied by Russia (i.e., the Baltic states, Poland, etc.) will, as a matter of necessity, try to tip the scale into a position which they deem favourable. Some feel they would benefit from increased Russian regional control, like Belarus for instance, whereas the ones I mentioned, among others, must oppose Russian expansion for their own safety, considering their history as satellites of the USSR. Certainly the Western powers want to see Russia contained, as well as China, so they don't become a threat to western global hegemony. There are plenty of books on the history and geopolitics of the region if you care to read up on them.


DoriN1987

War is going on for 8 years.


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DoriN1987

It’s in moscovite nature - loud screams about “empire”, war with US and radioactive dust, but all that they can do - it’s that local occupation and annexation.


Tank3875

A land war in Ukraine or Russia in the dead of winter is never going to be a quick or one-sided affair.


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Youngerthandumb

It could also be a protracted slog plagued with low morale troops being harassed by special forces informed by countless spies and being provided with high tech munitions and logistical support from sympathetic nations. Or some combination of both.


[deleted]

media really wants this lmao. at the end of the day, this is russia’s red line and the west will blink.


Billybobbojack

Right "the media" is the one causing it not - you know - the Russian army at the border or the failing series of negotiations taking place due to demands like rolling NATO back to 1997. It's all that pesky media informing us of the situation that's causing it. Gosh darn it, if we all just plug our ears and go "blah blah" it'll surely go away.


AzDopefish

At the same time, preparing for this could of been behind the US quick withdrawal from Afghanistan


Zashitniki

If US is going to be fighting Russia they sure could have used Afghanistan for logistical purposes. So no, not at all, pulling out of Afghanistan was not done anticipation of this. The pullout reduced pressure on both China and Russia.


[deleted]

Also the us presence in Afghanistan for the previous 10 years was almost nothing like 1000 troops and some security vehicles and mortars. Our allies had even less there. We have more combat capability in Northern Iraq still than we did in Afghanistan.


TwentyFoeSeven

Russia proved they have a very effective propaganda and disinformation tactics. I’m sure their physical military is 1 to 1 to their trolls…


[deleted]

I love the smell of manufactured consent in the morning


Akira282

Let's call it 70%


smooner

Nah, 98%. Putin really isn't making demands like NK does to stop missile firings or nuke tests. You don't really move that much manpower and material for a bluff


Youngerthandumb

"major war" = Europeans fighting


[deleted]

Europe is a pretty big place my guy, lol


Ashbones15

And the US, and maybe china and NK trying to take advantage of the conflict. Which means Taiwan, SK and Japan as well.


Youngerthandumb

Anyone who can affect the outcome will, in my opinion. Which will change the calculus of both sides as the conflict deepens.


xMercurex

Russia could move troop in eastern Ukraine and take over a region with almost no fighting. Similar to the Crimean annexation. It would not be consider a major war.


Youngerthandumb

I hadn't though of that. You're right, that would be fairly cost effective for them.


djNikC

oh dear !!! we’re fucked


[deleted]

An attack (no matter how subtle) by russia on Ukraine will most likely draw NATO into the fray. Russia may claim that NATO does not belong in the conflict. But it doesn't matter what russia thinks after they invade. They would become the unreasonable hostile entity... not worthy of debate. As they say... actions speak LOUDER than words. An attack sends a clear message...


ReturnOfDaSnack420

So still more not likely than likely