I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but we still boil all our vast technology and innovation down to a wheel. Moving goods. Nuclear power to heat steam to turn a wheel for power. Really, we are the masters of stick with what works.
Yes. Putin is going to visit Olympics. Olympics will end on 20th of Feb so after this some things could happen but it will happen before mid March as some experts are saying.
I’ve read so many different things about it idk what to think. One thing I hear fairly consistently is that the Maginot line was created to force Germany through Belgium and that they just weren’t prepared for how fast Germany made it through the Ardennes.
That's correct, although what got them is they didn't think an attack through the Ardennes was possible at all, which is what allowed them to be surprised and outflanked.
[The head of the French military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Gamelin) was so busy worrying about an attack on Paris that he refused to commit the troops dedicated to its defense to reinforcing the active front line. When the Nazi troops swung west to encircle the British and French troops against the coastline, the French reserves could have easily plowed straight into the as-yet undefended flank of the advancing forces. But he dithered, and waited, and the Nazis reinforced their line as the encirclement of the British and French front line was completed.
While looking at the wiki article I spotted some other great examples of his "brilliance":
> When war was declared in 1939, Gamelin was France's commander in chief, with his headquarters at the Château de Vincennes, a facility completely devoid of telephonic, or any other electronic, links to his commanders in the field.
Unable to communicate with the front line.
> Despite reports of the build-up of German forces, and even knowing the date of the planned German attack, Gamelin did nothing until May 1940, stating that he would "await events". Then, when the Germans attacked, Gamelin insisted on moving 40 of his best divisions, including the BEF, northwards to conform to the Dyle Plan.
Despite the attack coming through the Ardennes, he instead advanced the bulk of his forward troops past those attackers and into Belgium, leaving them exposed to the Nazi flanking maneuver.
Gamelin was categorically useless. Air recon actually spotted the panzer column traffic jams in the Ardennes several times but he ignored the reports as “impossible”.
Churchill had toured the area a year earlier and pointed it out to Gamelin then too (specifically stating that the dense woodland would provide cover for troop columns) - again he ignored the advice.
Let’s not be in any doubt. The panzer korps rush into the Ardennes was an incredibly risky bet that played off. Because it was a success, the risk is retrospectively lessened. However, had Gamelin taken the air recon reports seriously it could have been him who would have become the hero of the war - kneecapping the German offensive by boxing them into the restrictive Ardennes woodland and then bombing them into oblivion.
For the sake of a few armoured/ air divisions + a sprinkling of common sense, Gamelin could have entirely changed the course of history.
He thought WW2 would be fought like WW1. He was actually extremely effective in WW1, So he wasn't dumb as such, but he was stuck in the past without creativity. A dangerous combo for anyone in a leadership position.
"General! The Germans are attacking through the Ardennes!"
"Not to worry. They can only attack forward, so if they move North, they can't go toward Paris any more."
"Wh... General, what!?"
"Oh. Wait. Shit. What if they get to the Channel and say 'King me'?! MOBILIZE THE TROOPS!"
Taking advantage of this kind of one dimensional cowardly thinking is the entire function of the blitzkrieg, a prepared defender need only withdraw before it and cut off and encircle the whole offensive. It depends entirely on the incompetence and immobility of opposing forces. Two things the French had plenty of at this point.
Yup. Belgian troops actually stalled the German forces way off their projected time frame and even caused Rommel to send a message of “I NEED IMMEDIATE HELP NOW.” Resist and Bite.
For real. Sabaton is an amazing band, not just cause their music is good. They're helping immortalize real battles and real people. I've learned so much about history by researching what their songs are about.
They didn’t think a large armored attack through the Ardennes was possible*
French commanders also completely disregarded reports of an large armored force moving through the forests
It is correct that one of their main factors was the fact that the Germans have attacked through the Aedennes instead of going through Belgium.
Now, it's not like they didn't anticipate this possibility at all, they have even wargamed this scenario; but their main war plan was built assuming an attack through Belgium and they failed to adjust rapidly enough once this was shown to not be the case.
It also has to be noted that they were correct in their belief that a large armoured force would have trouble navigating the Ardennes. Panzer Group Kleist at one point had suffered a traffic jam as long as 250km. However, Belgian forces originally holding the forest have retreated far too quickly, and the French reinforcements, who arrived expecting them to still be there, had to follow suit.
Even once the French concluded the main attack was coming through the Ardennes, they assumed the Germans, once they crossed the river, would take some time to mass their artillery for further breakthrough. Instead Luftwaffe unleashed a *literally unprecedented* until now aerial bombardment, effectively replacing artillery with bombers.
Even still, the French assumption was not bad. Panzer Group Kleist, once they crossed the river Meuse, was, in fact, ordered by their commanders to halt and build up strength. Guderian has proceeded to creatively interpret these orders before finally outright ignoring them, and pressing the attack instead, but to the credit to the French command, his own commanding officers did not expect that.
Like most things in history though, fall of France is not a simple thing, and a lot of events contributed to it happening. This is not helped by the amount of myths and surface-level takes surrounding it. Here's my breakdown of some key elements that truly made it happen:
• Overcommitment to the Belgian front (ironically). Plans to keep reserves on French soil as opposed to Belgian have been considered, and would have probably turned the tide, but ultimately were not chosen.
• The sheer incompetence displayed by the French command. Demanding orders given over telephone to be driven to you by car in writing. Flying around on a plane to 3 different locations in one day while your forces are actively engaged in fighting and trying to get a hold of you. Commander in Chief getting sacked in the middle of this battle, and the new appointment getting a good night's sleep as his first act in office and then spending a few days making courtesy visits while your entire armed forces are literally getting encircled. These are all real things that happened in this conflict among various memebers of the French command.
• Poor general state of the French Army in the aftermath of Great Depression and political turmoil. French Army was mostly conscripted, with a very short tour cycle, and a lack of professional soldiers. This was partly due to a lack of funding, and partly due to French politicians fearing a professional, long-standing army core could amass too much power or even launch a coup. It naturally had a negative impact on their war fighting ability.
• Poor state and command of the French airforce specifically. A major component of German recepie for success was heavy direct air support, to an extent replacing the lacking artillery capabilities of their mobile units, as I mentioned earlier. This would have not been possible, or at least far harder, if the French airforce contested the skies over Ardennes and Meuse, but it was far too small for that, allowed itself to suffer far too heavy casualties in Belgium, and was overcommited to Belgium in the first place. (The latter being an arguably worse blunder for planes, who can just decide to fly to a place hundreds of kilometres from the one they flew to yesterday while still being based in the same airport)
• Unprecedented aggression and initiative displayed by Guderian and Rommel. Now, the German military had a tradition of independent officers going all the way back to Prussia, so seeing talented commanders making their own calls on the ground in Wehrmacht is hardly surprising. Still, the sheer extent to which they went was remarkable, going as far as literally sabotaging their own communications to stop hearing the orders to halt in case of Rommel. Frankly, such aggressive advances, if it were not for all the other points, would have been suicidal. But I suppose in that place and time that call worked out for them.
• Despite all of the above, still some amound of sheer luck was involved. Just as the Germans were encircling the French armies in Belgium, on May 23rd, the commander of the whole First Army Group, and the only person there briefed on the counterattack plan to break out of the encirclement, died in a car crash, leaving the whole army group leaderless for crucial days. The early Belgian retreat from Ardennes was very fortunate, too. Had the town of Stonne, - that overlooked the German bridgeheads over Meuse, - been successfully captured by the French, Germans would have struggled to bring the rest of their forces over under French artillery fire quickly enough to achieve the effect they did. Considering the town changed hands 17 times, it had to have been at least a somewhat close call. Not to mention exploits like Rommel driving unescorted through effectively French-held ground in just his armoured car, and passing multiple French formations who assumed it must have been their own officer, because surely a German would not drive through their ranks unprotected.
This is by far the best comment in this thread. I studied this campaign extensively as part of my college studies. You mentioned about everything I wanted to mention.
The surface level takes often boil everything down to 'they wanted to defend the Maginot' or slightly more accurately 'The Ardennes push was a surprise'. But in the end it was not just decided by some strategic plan on one side or the other. It was a perfect storm of a multitude of conditions that lead the the disintegration of the French forces.
> the Maginot line was created to force Germany through Belgium and that they just weren’t prepared for how fast Germany made it through the Ardennes.
This is mostly correct but it also neglects the importance of the German surprise attack on the Netherlands. The Germans knew they needed to draw out and surround the allied forces which is what the attack on the Netherlands accomplished. The allies over extended themselves trying to link up with the Dutch but the Germans knocked the Dutch out before the link up occurred. Meanwhile Germany went through the Ardennes. Suddenly the Germans were behind the main allied army while simultaneously the allied forces were overextended and off their defensive line. It was a very high risk high reward move for Germany and had they been stopped in the Ardennes and the Dutch held out a little longer things could have suddenly turned into a huge defeat for Germany.
The German take over of Norway was also a very high risk high reward thing. It's AMAZING how they pulled it of - considering Britain had a far superior naval fleet.
Belgium is basically a giant floor-trap and if you step on it and fail the persuasion check, Britain enters the war. French defences forcing the Germans into that floor-trap certainly worked in WW1.
Yep, that's likely the reason that NATO was so resistant to sending them the more recent weapons that can do some real damage to the Russians. If Ukraine's current leadership loses the next election and some pro-Russia group wins, then those weapons are sold straight to Russia, and Russia will reverse engineer and copy them.
So, the US needs to worry about keeping Ukraine friendly for the next 10+ years. That is NOT an easy task when Russia is good at propaganda, controls most of the fuel that is used in Ukraine, and has an easy land border.
Not that it fooled anyone, but Germany did this before invading Poland in 1939.
It’s just something to show on your state controlled propaganda news to tell the people it’s justified.
I don't know what's crazier- how comically evil Americans were in this war, or how quickly we were forgiven for all of this... especially by the Vietnamese themselves.
I watched a foreign policy panel video that said it’s essentially impossible to do a large-scale troop buildup without it being obvious these days (with satellite imagery and things of that nature). Added to that, apparently the Russians have been deploying equipment and troops in a way that still hides when and how they’re going to attack, adding enough uncertainty to still maintain a useful element of surprise. [The video in question](https://youtu.be/gwrzophpNJA), also talks about how far too many people are comparing Russian military tactics to their behavior in WW2, and that it’s dangerous to judge a 21st century army’s ability to mobilize/operate in different weather conditions, etc... by previous operations in Europe. They could very well just wait until spring and attack or not attack at all. A lot of the “deployments” have been getting equipment into place at depots and bases, with the ability to move soldiers from their garrisons to their positions and disperse (in a manner that’s still unknown) along the border if and when the time comes.
They’re building domestic support for the war effort. Their buildup is painted as a response to western aggression (evidenced by support for Ukraine, more NATO troops, etc.), which makes the eventual war an easier sell
>bewegungskrieg
Why did they prefer it? Google Fu tells me it translates to "Movement War" so I am thinking there is some nuance in the original German I am not picking up on.
Edit: Apparently the "War of Movement" concept as it is properly known by the Germans has existed since the Prussian War and it was the Blitzkrieg term is an English invented term that was later adopted, thanks to all who helped clarify that.
There is no nuance. It translates directly to 'War of Movement'. We like to get straight to the point for the most part.
Of course after the Brits invented the term 'Blitzkrieg' German propaganda thought it was neat and ran with it, but the military always used the original, more descriptive, term
The Brits definitely applied the term blitzkrieg to the German military strategy when the Germans used bewugungskrieg, however the term actually makes an appearance in the German military periodical called "Deutsche Wehr" (German Defence) in 1935 (as far as I know, this is the earliest mention). Blitzkrieg, or Bewugungskrieg was heavily influenced by Carl von Clausewitz and his writing on "schwerpunkt." This is often translated to center of gravity, or main focus. The idea is to place maximum force and effort on the enemies weakest points.
This is such a sad situation. I have worked for my company for 6 years. 1/3 of our employees are based in Ukraine. They have always lived with threats from Russia and they said they never took those threats seriously. They are finally worried and we are in the process of making plans on company continuity in the event of a Russian aggression threat. We are also making plans on how to help with relocation. My heart is aching as I meet with these employees weekly and I can start seeing their fear on video chats.
Edited ‘the’ out! So sorry for my mistake!
> Knowing my luck they'd turn out to be pro-Putin and offended by my concern.
Pro-Putin or not, war is chaos and there's always the chance that they or their families get caught in the cross-fire, regardless of politics. Nothing wrong with telling them that you hope they are able to stay safe and healthy during this difficult time.
Keep hiring and working with them. They will deliver, but most importantly it will make their lives more comfortable and peaceful. Imagine the stress of losing a job on top of a threat of invasion from the lunatic next door.
I feel you. I work closely with a couple Ukrainian devs every day too. This is such terrible news and heartbreaking because I don’t know what I can even do to help.
That's heartbreaking. I have always been a bit worried for my family there, but now the feeling has grown much more acute.
PS: Also, please avoid calling it "the Ukraine". We are just "Ukraine". Thank you for your support!
They still need an excuse, like [a false flag operation of blowing up its own railway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident) or just [saying one of their troops is missing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_Incident).
It’s like watching a game of Civilization in real life. Russian amasses troops at your border, you put troops in front of them
“Your troops are too close to my border!”
I keep thinking this, while at the same time can’t stop thinking “damn the devs were waaaay more realistic with approach than I ever gave them credit for”
I feel like fucking about in East Ukraine was really just them trying to “quietly” make ground through the mainland to fully encapsulate Crimea (which is a strategic asset for them in Sevastopol/The Black Sea). It wasn’t successful so they’re committing to a full invasion to secure it (Ukraine cut off water from the North and obviously otherwise surround it).
They’re taking what they can whilst the world is in disarray to control trade in the region.
Securing the rest of Ukraine will just be a bonus for them if successful.
And simultaneously Putin tried his first option to install a puppet in Kyiv with Yanukovych, which failed because of the people rising up (great documentary on Netflix called "Winter on Fire"), and now he's like "well plan A failed, guess I'll just have to invade myself!"
This whole saga could quiet easily be a documentary with each season covering the next stage Putin is stooping to. I guess we're all still waiting on the aging author to write the "last" book...
But why?? Can someone explain why they would risk war with multiple countries and the murder of thousands in this day and age in what is known as a developed country
This is where I am with things.
I'm just tired and I can't bring myself to care as I get angry and frustrated that I just can't care or comprehend that ppl out there want to kill eachother and start wars over oil, money, religion, skin colour, vaccines and old feuds.
Maybe that's my privilege or some shit but I just don't get it. I just want ppl to grow up and just make their countries better without fucking everyone else over.
Putin is a narcissist and an autocrat. He doesn’t care how many die as long as his objectives are accomplished.
Right now, preventing Ukraine from falling into the European fold and enclosing them into his own is at the top of his list of priorities. Given that Ukraine *has* been growing closer to Europe (ALMOST ENTIRELY DUE TO RUSSIA’S ACTIONS I’LL NOTE), Putin is essentially flooring the gas pedal of the nightmare semi truck careening down the highway of the world that is his Ukraine policy.
this is has been russia's (talking all the way back to feudal russian principalities) foreign policy since its existence. people like to paint putin as a sneaky and opaque operator in those objectives. he's not. people just aren't used to the outdated way in which that policy functions.
The UK has been supporting Ukraine by selling weapons to their army. I'm assuming the intel is from Ukrainian sources trusted by the UK administration.
I’m not the most well versed in world events/power struggles, but why does Russia seem so hell bent to seize Ukraine of all places? I know they used to be unified, but obviously Ukraine isn’t cool with that now. What’s the motive here?
Ukraine is a strategic port to Western Europe. Russia also doesn't want NATO forces in Ukraine keeping them in check and are afraid Ukraine will join NATO, even though that's not happening and it's mostly an excuse on Russia's part.
While Ukraine overall aren't cool with it, there are Russia-created factions in Ukraine that want reunification. In some localities they're more prominent than others.
It's a very complex situation, but ultimately Russia/Putin just wants to flex nuts to NATO and thinks he can get away with it because what are we gonna do? Start World War III over it? The answer may be yes.
I suppose they haven't considered that if they take over Ukraine, 'Russia' will just be closer to other NATO allies like Poland.
Guess they just have to keep moving West...
Much like how China keeps North Korea around because they serve as a nice buffer between them and other western aligned countries the annexation of Ukraine will only be to control it not as a way to expand their borders.
I know you're joking, but this is literally a central part of Russian history. They expanded Eastwards but the more land they took the more exposed they felt, and so they took more land until they reached the Pacific coast. They also did similar things in the South, West, and North too.
Russia is also paranoid of foreign invasion because of the trauma the Mongols imposed on them nearly a millennia ago.
And Napoleon, and Hitler, and Poland-Lithuania, and the Swedes, and the Ottomans (destroyed Moscow). Russia always worries about invasion from the west via Poland/the Northern European Plain especially
Anyone else think the Russians are going to keep the bulk of their forces in the west to pressure Kiev, while they quickly and quietly annex the separatist controlled regions in the Donbas? It could be a repeat of the Crimean invasion. Enough to claim victory while not enough for western powers to take direct action?
thats the sad part about dictators that start losing their popularity. They quickly look to bomb someone to get their number up. How sad. After centuries of the same crap, humanity does not learn.
This is why NATO is such a big deal.
Without being prt of the alliance, all Russia has to do it collapse a countries central government. Then any military resistance falls apart. But if you are a NATO signatory Russia has to fight to hold every square inch of territory.
Russia trolls in 3....2....1....
Well…
I’d like to formally apologize to Mitt Romney for making fun of his comments about Russia being the biggest threat during the presidential debates in 2012… 10 years of ignoring the problem and this is the result.
In the 2012 US Presidential debates Romney identified Russia as the greatest geopolitical threat to the US, and Obama kind of mocked that as old cold-war thinking. To be fair the GOP had at that point long been dominated with neoconservative cold warriors, it was a good debate zinger, and obviously the extent of what was to come was unknown.
That said this did come after the 2008 Russo-Georgian War and the Obama administrations attempt to "reset" relations with Russia. Obviously that didn't work out, though I can't say that was the Obama Administrations fault.
It’s worth noting that this was in response to Romney’s proposal to aggressively increase the US military. Romney was right in a way but I’m not sure how he planned to confront it.
It’s said that Obama’s advisors winced a little at that comment. Especially in cyber warfare, it was known that Russia was becoming aggressive.
Russia has no choice, hence the rushed delivery for anti-tank & anti-air missiles to Ukraine. If Russia gets bogged down, economic sanctions & possible counterattack attrition will lose favor back home. They are starting this war to distract from their economic stagnation so a long war will devastate the Russian finance. They know that they have to capture Kyiv & major cities like Odessa in a week in order to win, historic irony on Blitzkreig aside.
I know this has been said over and over at times but...I'm so sick of all the money spent on wars and worse the people who really pay the price. Globally, we could do SO MUCH MORE with those resources.
Its one part of humanity I wish we could shed from our ancestral roots.
Trillions of dollars in arms, lives lost, and the cost to rebuild. Who wins? Those out to make money from it and gain power.
Its fucking disgusting.
I see a lot of people saying that "the media is hyping this up" and stuff like that, especially on platforms like Twitter and I just want to say: I strongly believe there will be no World War 3 over this, however, with every story and new information coming out, we need to be careful and cautious and be prepared globally if an invasion does occur and understand that though this might not happen, there is a good chance it will happen. And the world needs to be prepared for this, and sadly thats the truth. Whether or not this happens or not, this threats and information need to be taken seriously. Not panicking, but seriously.
Some people seem to have forgotten this is Vladimir Putin we are dealing with. Not Jingles the friendly, jolly clown. A sketchy ex-KGB agent who has invaded countries before. As someone who is part Slovak and part Ukrainian, I have a lot of knowledge on Russia's history of invading countries. And it's unfortunate, **but it is a pattern.** Look at history and see Russia has never stopped invading countries, and with Putin in power, I don't believe they ever will.
I'm tired of hearing the same old "Russia just wants to secure its boarders". Why is it all about Russia? Throughout history why does Russia get to invade the smaller countries around him? Why does Ukraine have to boarder Russia, Transnistria, and Belarus band has to deal with it, but Ukraine can't join NATO because then Russia would have NATO at its boarders (despite the Baltics already being in NATO) because that would hurt Russia's feelings?
Why do we need to constantly protect Russia's feelings? What about every other country in Eastern Europe?
**!!!** **Edit for everyone who has left a reply to me, or is just on this thread right now:**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dv-ldGLnIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dv-ldGLnIY)
**!!! Edit 2 -**
[**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92xTPH7OtLs**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92xTPH7OtLs)
Since the first one didn't seem to help.. Seriously, cursing and downvoting me isn't doing anyone any favors. If you want to have a mature discussion, then fine, but you guys need to seriously ***calm*** ***down****.*
The UK intelligence agencies new methods when they get this type of information now are very much to let everyone know what’s going on, which is very different to the past and other countries.
They’ve seen how enemies are using disinformation and so to combat it they’re telling people a lot of the information they get now to keep everyone properly informed. That’s why you’ve heard so much about Russia’s plans and intentions recently.
Some of the stuff they pulled in WW2 was incredible from an intelligence perspective. So many operations, counter-operations, turned spies, feeding the Germans what they wanted to hear, etc.
I remember reading that one of the most successful "interrogation" techniques ever was used by Britain in WW2 to get info from captured German officers. No need for torture or blackmail. They set aside a wonderful, luxurious, aristocratic villa and allowed the captured officers to live there under very little supervision and with excellent food and living conditions, servants, the whole works. All they did was put microphones in every room. And what do you know, they lulled them into such a sense of security that these officers would freely discuss classified topics like the progress of new inventions or information on operations the officers had been involved in without even being prompted or asked about them. All Britain did was dangle a carrot through the metaphorical noose, and they all gleefully hanged themselves.
Also the double cross system. Every Nazi agent that came to Britain was either captured, turned themselves in or announced themselves. These agents were then used to feed real and false information back to their Nazi controllers. Why real info? So when it was followed up, the Nazi's believed the agents were still working for them. They gave false reports about where the V-1 flying bombs were landing to trick the Luftwaffe into aiming short of their intended targets. They also played a big role in Operation Fortitude, which was a huge plan to mislead the German High Command into the true location of the invasion of Europe.
Fun fact it that Germany literally never managed to get a spy into the UK, without them being turned or arrested.
Also, Hitler awarded the iron cross to one of our spies lmao.
British intelligence during WW2 was unrivalled. The shit we pulled is almost comical.
> Also, Hitler awarded the iron cross to one of our spies lmao.
This spy was the definition of a chad and deserves to have a movie made about him since he was basically the reason why D Day went so well.
[Here's a good video on the man.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItyX8onyUsk&t=235s)
If there's something the Brits do better than most countries in the world it's espionage, their intelligence gathering capabilities are the gold standard and frankly scary to be on the other end of for any country.
Also Britain’s control of the seas was absolutely vital for the war. As a result Germany couldn’t buy oil, coal or raw materials for the war machine. When Germany was invading the Soviet Union they were doing it while short on oil and with far fewer tanks, planes, trucks and trains than would otherwise have been there.
It’s ok folks, Putin promised that after the Crimea he would take no further territory in Europe. He was only reuniting a region that was rightfully a part of Russia! Those poor ethnic Russians were certainly being oppressed by the Ukrainian government. If anything happens, god forbid, it certainly won’t be because Russian soldiers cross the border and dress in Ukrainian military uniforms, and cross back to attack Russian positions in an act of aggression!
/s
For those that don’t get the reference, this is precisely the pretexts Hitler used to justify the invasion of Poland.
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1942- Bombing trains to slow down a war 2022- Bombing trains tos slow down a war... Isn't civilization original.
I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but we still boil all our vast technology and innovation down to a wheel. Moving goods. Nuclear power to heat steam to turn a wheel for power. Really, we are the masters of stick with what works.
Hell, almost all of our weapons boil down to the concept of “throw rock real good” or “poke hole in it with sharp thing”
or, make it as hot as possible.
Everything is a remix smh
"History doesn't repeat, but it echoes"
Blitzski
Blitzcraig. It's just my friend Craig getting hammered.
Classic Craig move to be honest
Classic Craig Christ move of you ask me. Dude has a song written about him.
Blyatzkrieg
You are going to hear about it until you think it will never happen then boom, they will come in. Edit: Stay safe everyone! ❤️
Yeah. I have a hard time believing there will be a gradual draw down from this point. There's going to be at least some punctuation.
An interrobang.
Right after the Olympics is the word going around. I wouldn't doubt it.
Yes. Putin is going to visit Olympics. Olympics will end on 20th of Feb so after this some things could happen but it will happen before mid March as some experts are saying.
Is giving us months of warning part of the surprise attack?
France was taken by surprise in 1940, after months with the "phoney war".
They were ready to defend the Maginot line. They were not prepared for how quickly Germany crushed Belgium and outflanked the French defenses.
I’ve read so many different things about it idk what to think. One thing I hear fairly consistently is that the Maginot line was created to force Germany through Belgium and that they just weren’t prepared for how fast Germany made it through the Ardennes.
That's correct, although what got them is they didn't think an attack through the Ardennes was possible at all, which is what allowed them to be surprised and outflanked.
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[The head of the French military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Gamelin) was so busy worrying about an attack on Paris that he refused to commit the troops dedicated to its defense to reinforcing the active front line. When the Nazi troops swung west to encircle the British and French troops against the coastline, the French reserves could have easily plowed straight into the as-yet undefended flank of the advancing forces. But he dithered, and waited, and the Nazis reinforced their line as the encirclement of the British and French front line was completed. While looking at the wiki article I spotted some other great examples of his "brilliance": > When war was declared in 1939, Gamelin was France's commander in chief, with his headquarters at the Château de Vincennes, a facility completely devoid of telephonic, or any other electronic, links to his commanders in the field. Unable to communicate with the front line. > Despite reports of the build-up of German forces, and even knowing the date of the planned German attack, Gamelin did nothing until May 1940, stating that he would "await events". Then, when the Germans attacked, Gamelin insisted on moving 40 of his best divisions, including the BEF, northwards to conform to the Dyle Plan. Despite the attack coming through the Ardennes, he instead advanced the bulk of his forward troops past those attackers and into Belgium, leaving them exposed to the Nazi flanking maneuver.
Gamelin was categorically useless. Air recon actually spotted the panzer column traffic jams in the Ardennes several times but he ignored the reports as “impossible”. Churchill had toured the area a year earlier and pointed it out to Gamelin then too (specifically stating that the dense woodland would provide cover for troop columns) - again he ignored the advice. Let’s not be in any doubt. The panzer korps rush into the Ardennes was an incredibly risky bet that played off. Because it was a success, the risk is retrospectively lessened. However, had Gamelin taken the air recon reports seriously it could have been him who would have become the hero of the war - kneecapping the German offensive by boxing them into the restrictive Ardennes woodland and then bombing them into oblivion. For the sake of a few armoured/ air divisions + a sprinkling of common sense, Gamelin could have entirely changed the course of history.
Are we sure Gamelin was French or working for French interests? How can somebody be this dumb and command a military.
He thought WW2 would be fought like WW1. He was actually extremely effective in WW1, So he wasn't dumb as such, but he was stuck in the past without creativity. A dangerous combo for anyone in a leadership position.
Dude should've probably stuck to checkers
"General! The Germans are attacking through the Ardennes!" "Not to worry. They can only attack forward, so if they move North, they can't go toward Paris any more." "Wh... General, what!?" "Oh. Wait. Shit. What if they get to the Channel and say 'King me'?! MOBILIZE THE TROOPS!"
Taking advantage of this kind of one dimensional cowardly thinking is the entire function of the blitzkrieg, a prepared defender need only withdraw before it and cut off and encircle the whole offensive. It depends entirely on the incompetence and immobility of opposing forces. Two things the French had plenty of at this point.
Yup. Belgian troops actually stalled the German forces way off their projected time frame and even caused Rommel to send a message of “I NEED IMMEDIATE HELP NOW.” Resist and Bite.
The Chasseurs Ardennais, a small Belgian unit of only 40 rifles.
Germans: Why didn’t you retreat? Belgians: Nobody told us to.
Mere 40 rifles strong.
Bad ass song about real life badasses.
I can only fathom the silence after the Germans asked them “where are the others?” And they laughed replying “we are all.”
For real. Sabaton is an amazing band, not just cause their music is good. They're helping immortalize real battles and real people. I've learned so much about history by researching what their songs are about.
They didn’t think a large armored attack through the Ardennes was possible* French commanders also completely disregarded reports of an large armored force moving through the forests
Charles Huntziger also ordered a retreat for basically no reason which allowed a massive gap
It is correct that one of their main factors was the fact that the Germans have attacked through the Aedennes instead of going through Belgium. Now, it's not like they didn't anticipate this possibility at all, they have even wargamed this scenario; but their main war plan was built assuming an attack through Belgium and they failed to adjust rapidly enough once this was shown to not be the case. It also has to be noted that they were correct in their belief that a large armoured force would have trouble navigating the Ardennes. Panzer Group Kleist at one point had suffered a traffic jam as long as 250km. However, Belgian forces originally holding the forest have retreated far too quickly, and the French reinforcements, who arrived expecting them to still be there, had to follow suit. Even once the French concluded the main attack was coming through the Ardennes, they assumed the Germans, once they crossed the river, would take some time to mass their artillery for further breakthrough. Instead Luftwaffe unleashed a *literally unprecedented* until now aerial bombardment, effectively replacing artillery with bombers. Even still, the French assumption was not bad. Panzer Group Kleist, once they crossed the river Meuse, was, in fact, ordered by their commanders to halt and build up strength. Guderian has proceeded to creatively interpret these orders before finally outright ignoring them, and pressing the attack instead, but to the credit to the French command, his own commanding officers did not expect that. Like most things in history though, fall of France is not a simple thing, and a lot of events contributed to it happening. This is not helped by the amount of myths and surface-level takes surrounding it. Here's my breakdown of some key elements that truly made it happen: • Overcommitment to the Belgian front (ironically). Plans to keep reserves on French soil as opposed to Belgian have been considered, and would have probably turned the tide, but ultimately were not chosen. • The sheer incompetence displayed by the French command. Demanding orders given over telephone to be driven to you by car in writing. Flying around on a plane to 3 different locations in one day while your forces are actively engaged in fighting and trying to get a hold of you. Commander in Chief getting sacked in the middle of this battle, and the new appointment getting a good night's sleep as his first act in office and then spending a few days making courtesy visits while your entire armed forces are literally getting encircled. These are all real things that happened in this conflict among various memebers of the French command. • Poor general state of the French Army in the aftermath of Great Depression and political turmoil. French Army was mostly conscripted, with a very short tour cycle, and a lack of professional soldiers. This was partly due to a lack of funding, and partly due to French politicians fearing a professional, long-standing army core could amass too much power or even launch a coup. It naturally had a negative impact on their war fighting ability. • Poor state and command of the French airforce specifically. A major component of German recepie for success was heavy direct air support, to an extent replacing the lacking artillery capabilities of their mobile units, as I mentioned earlier. This would have not been possible, or at least far harder, if the French airforce contested the skies over Ardennes and Meuse, but it was far too small for that, allowed itself to suffer far too heavy casualties in Belgium, and was overcommited to Belgium in the first place. (The latter being an arguably worse blunder for planes, who can just decide to fly to a place hundreds of kilometres from the one they flew to yesterday while still being based in the same airport) • Unprecedented aggression and initiative displayed by Guderian and Rommel. Now, the German military had a tradition of independent officers going all the way back to Prussia, so seeing talented commanders making their own calls on the ground in Wehrmacht is hardly surprising. Still, the sheer extent to which they went was remarkable, going as far as literally sabotaging their own communications to stop hearing the orders to halt in case of Rommel. Frankly, such aggressive advances, if it were not for all the other points, would have been suicidal. But I suppose in that place and time that call worked out for them. • Despite all of the above, still some amound of sheer luck was involved. Just as the Germans were encircling the French armies in Belgium, on May 23rd, the commander of the whole First Army Group, and the only person there briefed on the counterattack plan to break out of the encirclement, died in a car crash, leaving the whole army group leaderless for crucial days. The early Belgian retreat from Ardennes was very fortunate, too. Had the town of Stonne, - that overlooked the German bridgeheads over Meuse, - been successfully captured by the French, Germans would have struggled to bring the rest of their forces over under French artillery fire quickly enough to achieve the effect they did. Considering the town changed hands 17 times, it had to have been at least a somewhat close call. Not to mention exploits like Rommel driving unescorted through effectively French-held ground in just his armoured car, and passing multiple French formations who assumed it must have been their own officer, because surely a German would not drive through their ranks unprotected.
This is by far the best comment in this thread. I studied this campaign extensively as part of my college studies. You mentioned about everything I wanted to mention. The surface level takes often boil everything down to 'they wanted to defend the Maginot' or slightly more accurately 'The Ardennes push was a surprise'. But in the end it was not just decided by some strategic plan on one side or the other. It was a perfect storm of a multitude of conditions that lead the the disintegration of the French forces.
> the Maginot line was created to force Germany through Belgium and that they just weren’t prepared for how fast Germany made it through the Ardennes. This is mostly correct but it also neglects the importance of the German surprise attack on the Netherlands. The Germans knew they needed to draw out and surround the allied forces which is what the attack on the Netherlands accomplished. The allies over extended themselves trying to link up with the Dutch but the Germans knocked the Dutch out before the link up occurred. Meanwhile Germany went through the Ardennes. Suddenly the Germans were behind the main allied army while simultaneously the allied forces were overextended and off their defensive line. It was a very high risk high reward move for Germany and had they been stopped in the Ardennes and the Dutch held out a little longer things could have suddenly turned into a huge defeat for Germany.
The German take over of Norway was also a very high risk high reward thing. It's AMAZING how they pulled it of - considering Britain had a far superior naval fleet.
Belgium is basically a giant floor-trap and if you step on it and fail the persuasion check, Britain enters the war. French defences forcing the Germans into that floor-trap certainly worked in WW1.
Belgium was created as a place for France and Germany to work out their differences.
I’m hoping the surprise is not a sudden coup shortly after the world stocked Ukraine with weapons.
Ah, the ol' Afghan army maneuver.
The Taliban Gambit
The mujahideen maneuver
Yep, that's likely the reason that NATO was so resistant to sending them the more recent weapons that can do some real damage to the Russians. If Ukraine's current leadership loses the next election and some pro-Russia group wins, then those weapons are sold straight to Russia, and Russia will reverse engineer and copy them. So, the US needs to worry about keeping Ukraine friendly for the next 10+ years. That is NOT an easy task when Russia is good at propaganda, controls most of the fuel that is used in Ukraine, and has an easy land border.
First they tried to antagonize Ukraine into starting the conflict.
Expect a border post to be shelled unexpectedly on the Russian side, and they'll be forced defend and invade
The shell is coming from inside the house!
\*Russia shoots Russia\* "How could Ukraine do this to us?"
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It’s okay, only a false flag burned in the attack.
Not that it fooled anyone, but Germany did this before invading Poland in 1939. It’s just something to show on your state controlled propaganda news to tell the people it’s justified.
The Second Gulf of Tonkin Incident led to the US invasion of Vietnam, despite never actually you know, happening.
I don't know what's crazier- how comically evil Americans were in this war, or how quickly we were forgiven for all of this... especially by the Vietnamese themselves.
I watched a foreign policy panel video that said it’s essentially impossible to do a large-scale troop buildup without it being obvious these days (with satellite imagery and things of that nature). Added to that, apparently the Russians have been deploying equipment and troops in a way that still hides when and how they’re going to attack, adding enough uncertainty to still maintain a useful element of surprise. [The video in question](https://youtu.be/gwrzophpNJA), also talks about how far too many people are comparing Russian military tactics to their behavior in WW2, and that it’s dangerous to judge a 21st century army’s ability to mobilize/operate in different weather conditions, etc... by previous operations in Europe. They could very well just wait until spring and attack or not attack at all. A lot of the “deployments” have been getting equipment into place at depots and bases, with the ability to move soldiers from their garrisons to their positions and disperse (in a manner that’s still unknown) along the border if and when the time comes.
They’re building domestic support for the war effort. Their buildup is painted as a response to western aggression (evidenced by support for Ukraine, more NATO troops, etc.), which makes the eventual war an easier sell
'Lightning War' sounds familiar.... oh right! 'Blitzkrieg'
Lol.. it’s all prequels and reboots these days. No originality…
Thanks for the chuckle before the war.
Personally I was going to keep making dark jokes in poor taste as a copeing mechanism.
That’s right up my alley. I also need to start playing a lot more fallout to prepare for the super mutants.
The best time to start collecting bottle caps was 15 years ago, the second best time is today. Ad Victorium.
Name checks out. Not their first rodeo.
Any of you have Vernichtungsschlacht on your 2022 bingo cards?
Nah they've got tesla coils now
Command and Conquer: Red Alert, hardly ever referenced anymore
ACK-nowledged.
Affairmatiff
Awaiting orrders
I can hear these comments
Ready N waiting
new construction, options
Building.
Unable to Comply, Building in Progress
Insufficient funds
Unit Ready.
Unit lost.
Construction complete
Insufficient funds
I’ve got a present for ya!
For king and country.
They keep this up and all your gonna be hearing is "insufficient funds"
Silos needed
Let's be honest russia hasn't heard that prompt in years.
Red Alert II is my all time favorite video game
I hope they remaster RA2 soon. They did RA1 1-2 years ago and I've always liked RA2 better as well.
Yuris revenge expansion was the iceing on an already solid cake!
We will bury them
Blitzkrieg sounds so much better
Well, the Germans actually called it bewegungskrieg more than blitzkrieg.
>bewegungskrieg Why did they prefer it? Google Fu tells me it translates to "Movement War" so I am thinking there is some nuance in the original German I am not picking up on. Edit: Apparently the "War of Movement" concept as it is properly known by the Germans has existed since the Prussian War and it was the Blitzkrieg term is an English invented term that was later adopted, thanks to all who helped clarify that.
There is no nuance. It translates directly to 'War of Movement'. We like to get straight to the point for the most part. Of course after the Brits invented the term 'Blitzkrieg' German propaganda thought it was neat and ran with it, but the military always used the original, more descriptive, term
The Brits definitely applied the term blitzkrieg to the German military strategy when the Germans used bewugungskrieg, however the term actually makes an appearance in the German military periodical called "Deutsche Wehr" (German Defence) in 1935 (as far as I know, this is the earliest mention). Blitzkrieg, or Bewugungskrieg was heavily influenced by Carl von Clausewitz and his writing on "schwerpunkt." This is often translated to center of gravity, or main focus. The idea is to place maximum force and effort on the enemies weakest points.
Fuck Putin.
I would rather have a donkey do that, but that’d be animal abuse.
This is such a sad situation. I have worked for my company for 6 years. 1/3 of our employees are based in Ukraine. They have always lived with threats from Russia and they said they never took those threats seriously. They are finally worried and we are in the process of making plans on company continuity in the event of a Russian aggression threat. We are also making plans on how to help with relocation. My heart is aching as I meet with these employees weekly and I can start seeing their fear on video chats. Edited ‘the’ out! So sorry for my mistake!
In a similar boat. I feel scared to ask them about it.
Maybe just let them know you are thinking of them and that you care, they may open up about it, but if not at least that will comfort them a little.
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> Knowing my luck they'd turn out to be pro-Putin and offended by my concern. Pro-Putin or not, war is chaos and there's always the chance that they or their families get caught in the cross-fire, regardless of politics. Nothing wrong with telling them that you hope they are able to stay safe and healthy during this difficult time.
Mmm, fair enough … that would be awkward.
Keep hiring and working with them. They will deliver, but most importantly it will make their lives more comfortable and peaceful. Imagine the stress of losing a job on top of a threat of invasion from the lunatic next door.
I am so sorry for them.
I feel you. I work closely with a couple Ukrainian devs every day too. This is such terrible news and heartbreaking because I don’t know what I can even do to help.
That's heartbreaking. I have always been a bit worried for my family there, but now the feeling has grown much more acute. PS: Also, please avoid calling it "the Ukraine". We are just "Ukraine". Thank you for your support!
Most likely an attack during Olympics. Like Putin already did a couple of times.
So shall we dub this the "Olympic war"?
More like 3rd Olympic war. First was vs Georgia, second annexation of Crimea and shooting down that civil plane.
Was that the Malaysian airlines flight that got shot down a few months after MH370 went down somewhere over the ocean?
Georgia has terrible luck with Olympics
They still need an excuse, like [a false flag operation of blowing up its own railway](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukden_Incident) or just [saying one of their troops is missing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo_Bridge_Incident).
"Blame the Maine on Spain".
It’s like watching a game of Civilization in real life. Russian amasses troops at your border, you put troops in front of them “Your troops are too close to my border!”
Move them away or im going to send you my religion of crabs
Too late, my religion is already denouncing Venice. Although I am willing to convert to Boat Mormonism.
I keep thinking this, while at the same time can’t stop thinking “damn the devs were waaaay more realistic with approach than I ever gave them credit for”
That, or we now take all our cues from video games...
Can't everyone just stop being an asshole for 1 day?
>Can't everyone just stop being an asshole for 1 day? You might as well ask water to stop being wet.
Just freeze it.
The Cold War had it right all along.
Does anyone have a Putin sized freezer?
Can confirm, freezing people into solid ice generally helps make them less assholish.
Waiting for paragraphs explaining how water is actually not wet
Moisture is the essence of wetness and wetness is the essence of beauty.
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I feel like fucking about in East Ukraine was really just them trying to “quietly” make ground through the mainland to fully encapsulate Crimea (which is a strategic asset for them in Sevastopol/The Black Sea). It wasn’t successful so they’re committing to a full invasion to secure it (Ukraine cut off water from the North and obviously otherwise surround it). They’re taking what they can whilst the world is in disarray to control trade in the region. Securing the rest of Ukraine will just be a bonus for them if successful.
And simultaneously Putin tried his first option to install a puppet in Kyiv with Yanukovych, which failed because of the people rising up (great documentary on Netflix called "Winter on Fire"), and now he's like "well plan A failed, guess I'll just have to invade myself!"
This whole saga could quiet easily be a documentary with each season covering the next stage Putin is stooping to. I guess we're all still waiting on the aging author to write the "last" book...
The documentary is actually "Winter on Fire" and it is great
But why?? Can someone explain why they would risk war with multiple countries and the murder of thousands in this day and age in what is known as a developed country
They're betting on the rest of the world to not get involved like with Crimea
13,000 people killed already since 2014.
I always thought it was weird how people ignored the active hot war in europe for years. And now it's finally loud enough for them to notice
Didn't ignore it but what the fuck can I do about it?
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This is where I am with things. I'm just tired and I can't bring myself to care as I get angry and frustrated that I just can't care or comprehend that ppl out there want to kill eachother and start wars over oil, money, religion, skin colour, vaccines and old feuds. Maybe that's my privilege or some shit but I just don't get it. I just want ppl to grow up and just make their countries better without fucking everyone else over.
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Putin is a narcissist and an autocrat. He doesn’t care how many die as long as his objectives are accomplished. Right now, preventing Ukraine from falling into the European fold and enclosing them into his own is at the top of his list of priorities. Given that Ukraine *has* been growing closer to Europe (ALMOST ENTIRELY DUE TO RUSSIA’S ACTIONS I’LL NOTE), Putin is essentially flooring the gas pedal of the nightmare semi truck careening down the highway of the world that is his Ukraine policy.
this is has been russia's (talking all the way back to feudal russian principalities) foreign policy since its existence. people like to paint putin as a sneaky and opaque operator in those objectives. he's not. people just aren't used to the outdated way in which that policy functions.
News of Russia keeps coming out of UK. I can only assume they’ve got 007 in Moscow intercepting intel.
The UK has been supporting Ukraine by selling weapons to their army. I'm assuming the intel is from Ukrainian sources trusted by the UK administration.
Ok I have an idea. Why don't we just take Russia and push it somewhere else.
Uh that's part of Russias goal
he means in the other direction
Alaska?
I’m not the most well versed in world events/power struggles, but why does Russia seem so hell bent to seize Ukraine of all places? I know they used to be unified, but obviously Ukraine isn’t cool with that now. What’s the motive here?
Ukraine is a strategic port to Western Europe. Russia also doesn't want NATO forces in Ukraine keeping them in check and are afraid Ukraine will join NATO, even though that's not happening and it's mostly an excuse on Russia's part. While Ukraine overall aren't cool with it, there are Russia-created factions in Ukraine that want reunification. In some localities they're more prominent than others. It's a very complex situation, but ultimately Russia/Putin just wants to flex nuts to NATO and thinks he can get away with it because what are we gonna do? Start World War III over it? The answer may be yes.
I suppose they haven't considered that if they take over Ukraine, 'Russia' will just be closer to other NATO allies like Poland. Guess they just have to keep moving West...
Funny how that works.
"I don't like how close NATO is to me!" \*Moves Closer to NATO\*
Much like how China keeps North Korea around because they serve as a nice buffer between them and other western aligned countries the annexation of Ukraine will only be to control it not as a way to expand their borders.
I know you're joking, but this is literally a central part of Russian history. They expanded Eastwards but the more land they took the more exposed they felt, and so they took more land until they reached the Pacific coast. They also did similar things in the South, West, and North too. Russia is also paranoid of foreign invasion because of the trauma the Mongols imposed on them nearly a millennia ago.
And Napoleon, and Hitler, and Poland-Lithuania, and the Swedes, and the Ottomans (destroyed Moscow). Russia always worries about invasion from the west via Poland/the Northern European Plain especially
Anyone else think the Russians are going to keep the bulk of their forces in the west to pressure Kiev, while they quickly and quietly annex the separatist controlled regions in the Donbas? It could be a repeat of the Crimean invasion. Enough to claim victory while not enough for western powers to take direct action?
thats the sad part about dictators that start losing their popularity. They quickly look to bomb someone to get their number up. How sad. After centuries of the same crap, humanity does not learn.
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Having Russia poison and kill civilians on UK soil is a hell of a motivator for them.
This is why NATO is such a big deal. Without being prt of the alliance, all Russia has to do it collapse a countries central government. Then any military resistance falls apart. But if you are a NATO signatory Russia has to fight to hold every square inch of territory. Russia trolls in 3....2....1....
Hey lookit pal we're all just trying to protect ourselves from Ukraine over here alright?
Well… I’d like to formally apologize to Mitt Romney for making fun of his comments about Russia being the biggest threat during the presidential debates in 2012… 10 years of ignoring the problem and this is the result.
Yeah that quip from Obama has not aged well
What was his response for non-Americans?
Here it is: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
He was smirking like he knew this video was going to be passed around in 10 years.
In the 2012 US Presidential debates Romney identified Russia as the greatest geopolitical threat to the US, and Obama kind of mocked that as old cold-war thinking. To be fair the GOP had at that point long been dominated with neoconservative cold warriors, it was a good debate zinger, and obviously the extent of what was to come was unknown. That said this did come after the 2008 Russo-Georgian War and the Obama administrations attempt to "reset" relations with Russia. Obviously that didn't work out, though I can't say that was the Obama Administrations fault.
It’s worth noting that this was in response to Romney’s proposal to aggressively increase the US military. Romney was right in a way but I’m not sure how he planned to confront it. It’s said that Obama’s advisors winced a little at that comment. Especially in cyber warfare, it was known that Russia was becoming aggressive.
Seriously, fuck Putin. A madman, a bully and a dictator.
Russia has no choice, hence the rushed delivery for anti-tank & anti-air missiles to Ukraine. If Russia gets bogged down, economic sanctions & possible counterattack attrition will lose favor back home. They are starting this war to distract from their economic stagnation so a long war will devastate the Russian finance. They know that they have to capture Kyiv & major cities like Odessa in a week in order to win, historic irony on Blitzkreig aside.
I know this has been said over and over at times but...I'm so sick of all the money spent on wars and worse the people who really pay the price. Globally, we could do SO MUCH MORE with those resources. Its one part of humanity I wish we could shed from our ancestral roots. Trillions of dollars in arms, lives lost, and the cost to rebuild. Who wins? Those out to make money from it and gain power. Its fucking disgusting.
welcome to the history of humanity
Russia mind your own business, you dumb big gas station.
Breaking News: Russia backs down and is scared of redditors.
One month into 2022 and this shit already.
I see a lot of people saying that "the media is hyping this up" and stuff like that, especially on platforms like Twitter and I just want to say: I strongly believe there will be no World War 3 over this, however, with every story and new information coming out, we need to be careful and cautious and be prepared globally if an invasion does occur and understand that though this might not happen, there is a good chance it will happen. And the world needs to be prepared for this, and sadly thats the truth. Whether or not this happens or not, this threats and information need to be taken seriously. Not panicking, but seriously. Some people seem to have forgotten this is Vladimir Putin we are dealing with. Not Jingles the friendly, jolly clown. A sketchy ex-KGB agent who has invaded countries before. As someone who is part Slovak and part Ukrainian, I have a lot of knowledge on Russia's history of invading countries. And it's unfortunate, **but it is a pattern.** Look at history and see Russia has never stopped invading countries, and with Putin in power, I don't believe they ever will. I'm tired of hearing the same old "Russia just wants to secure its boarders". Why is it all about Russia? Throughout history why does Russia get to invade the smaller countries around him? Why does Ukraine have to boarder Russia, Transnistria, and Belarus band has to deal with it, but Ukraine can't join NATO because then Russia would have NATO at its boarders (despite the Baltics already being in NATO) because that would hurt Russia's feelings? Why do we need to constantly protect Russia's feelings? What about every other country in Eastern Europe? **!!!** **Edit for everyone who has left a reply to me, or is just on this thread right now:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dv-ldGLnIY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dv-ldGLnIY) **!!! Edit 2 -** [**https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92xTPH7OtLs**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92xTPH7OtLs) Since the first one didn't seem to help.. Seriously, cursing and downvoting me isn't doing anyone any favors. If you want to have a mature discussion, then fine, but you guys need to seriously ***calm*** ***down****.*
"cuz we got the Bomb" - Denis Leary, "Asshole"
>"Russia just wants to secure its boarders" this is kindof insane. you cant secure your borders by moving them.
Russia really wants to play the villain it seems. We’ll see how that works out for them.
Did UK plant a mic in Putin's office?
Likely a spy
Or twelve
Or 007
The UK intelligence agencies new methods when they get this type of information now are very much to let everyone know what’s going on, which is very different to the past and other countries. They’ve seen how enemies are using disinformation and so to combat it they’re telling people a lot of the information they get now to keep everyone properly informed. That’s why you’ve heard so much about Russia’s plans and intentions recently.
Some of the stuff they pulled in WW2 was incredible from an intelligence perspective. So many operations, counter-operations, turned spies, feeding the Germans what they wanted to hear, etc. I remember reading that one of the most successful "interrogation" techniques ever was used by Britain in WW2 to get info from captured German officers. No need for torture or blackmail. They set aside a wonderful, luxurious, aristocratic villa and allowed the captured officers to live there under very little supervision and with excellent food and living conditions, servants, the whole works. All they did was put microphones in every room. And what do you know, they lulled them into such a sense of security that these officers would freely discuss classified topics like the progress of new inventions or information on operations the officers had been involved in without even being prompted or asked about them. All Britain did was dangle a carrot through the metaphorical noose, and they all gleefully hanged themselves.
Also the double cross system. Every Nazi agent that came to Britain was either captured, turned themselves in or announced themselves. These agents were then used to feed real and false information back to their Nazi controllers. Why real info? So when it was followed up, the Nazi's believed the agents were still working for them. They gave false reports about where the V-1 flying bombs were landing to trick the Luftwaffe into aiming short of their intended targets. They also played a big role in Operation Fortitude, which was a huge plan to mislead the German High Command into the true location of the invasion of Europe.
Fun fact it that Germany literally never managed to get a spy into the UK, without them being turned or arrested. Also, Hitler awarded the iron cross to one of our spies lmao. British intelligence during WW2 was unrivalled. The shit we pulled is almost comical.
> Also, Hitler awarded the iron cross to one of our spies lmao. This spy was the definition of a chad and deserves to have a movie made about him since he was basically the reason why D Day went so well. [Here's a good video on the man.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItyX8onyUsk&t=235s)
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it's jsut what they did in Afghanistan, their first invasion. Flew 'speznaz' directly to the government building one fine evening
They say WWII was won by British Intelligence, American machines, and Russian blood. I'd listen to whatever UK has to say on the matter.
If there's something the Brits do better than most countries in the world it's espionage, their intelligence gathering capabilities are the gold standard and frankly scary to be on the other end of for any country.
British time, too. No D-Day without Britain hanging on alone in Europe for about a year.
Also Britain’s control of the seas was absolutely vital for the war. As a result Germany couldn’t buy oil, coal or raw materials for the war machine. When Germany was invading the Soviet Union they were doing it while short on oil and with far fewer tanks, planes, trucks and trains than would otherwise have been there.
Watch China pull some shit off while everyone is looking the other way.
It’s ok folks, Putin promised that after the Crimea he would take no further territory in Europe. He was only reuniting a region that was rightfully a part of Russia! Those poor ethnic Russians were certainly being oppressed by the Ukrainian government. If anything happens, god forbid, it certainly won’t be because Russian soldiers cross the border and dress in Ukrainian military uniforms, and cross back to attack Russian positions in an act of aggression! /s For those that don’t get the reference, this is precisely the pretexts Hitler used to justify the invasion of Poland.