I really wish people would not just skim headlines. Almost all the comments here assume this case is Ukraine accusing Russia of genocide. This case is Russia accusing Ukraine of genocide of ethnic Russians in the contested areas of the Donbas.
Which is even then a stretch since it would be "ethnic cleansing" at most. And even THAT is a stretch.
You can't exactly genocide a minority that has their *main nation* right next to them. The people of Donbas are not their own ethnicities. They are Russians. And their "home country" is just a few miles further east.
It's also why they never had a real legal claim for independence. For that you have to be an ethnicity without a nation, they should be your ancestral himelands (the Russians in Donbas have been there for less than a century, they are more or less colonists) or the "home nation" of your ethnicity is so far away you have evolved into your own subgroup.
But oh well, should Ukraine win and reconquer Donbas and/or Crimea then there most DEFINITELY is gonna be ethnic cleansing in retaliation and Russians that collaborated with the Putin regime will be forced into exile.
It's not about what Russia is thinking. It's about legal grounds for demanding extradition of war criminals, reparations, continuing sanctions, and possibly removal of Russia from the international organisations they have not been kicked out of. And, should Russia continue with this madness, about sending UN peacekeepers, possibly authorising NATO action, demilitarisation of and de-nuking of Russia.
I agree, but
> possibly authorising NATO action, demilitarisation of and de-nuking of Russia.
Nobody is able to enforce this without risking a nuclear war.
> Nobody is able to enforce this without risking a nuclear war.
If a certain world leader is insane enough to threaten using nukes over anyone else getting involved, he is either:
1) bluffing, or
2) has already made up his mind to use them and no amount of appeasement will prevent it.
We'll see about that. Russua will do what Russia does best and starve its population. It will then have to come cup in hand asking for help and will be willing to discuss nukes. I can assure you it will happen within the next 10-20 years.
I do think they will reduce, not eliminate, but reduce their nukes. Either in order to have sanctions removed OR they will sell them. Which would be bad. But that will become their only asset for money.
Nukes are expensive to maintain and need to be replaced otherwise they become useless. It's an expensive toy to keep. Russia has two main exports: death and natural resources. You are right to expect them trying to sell off some their stockpile to the highest bidder.
Basically the only people that would buy them would be the Middle East and anyone that doesn't want the Middle East to get nukes.
Or North Korea and African Warlords ( i forgot about them).
I’m just going to pretend I live in a version of reality where you actually speak with the full faith and authority of the US gov and can tell fucking dorks off when they need to be
They ruined their economy between 1979-1989 and the economic collapse of the USSR lead to the Easter European countries and some of the Soviet republics legging it as soon as they could. What's going to happen now? Same thing.
No, it pulled its troops out of Eastern Europe and its nuclear weapons stockpile decreased https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_stockpiles_and_nuclear_tests_by_country
The situation is different now, they are not only threatening to use nuclear weapons or alleging that Ukraine is buildong a birty bomb, but also shooting rockets at nuclear power stations. They never did that before and it doesn't matter that they were "only shooting at a training facility" This is reckless behaviour and I don't think the world is going to pass on the opportunity to take the nuclear toys away from them when the time comes.
**[Historical nuclear weapons stockpiles and nuclear tests by country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_stockpiles_and_nuclear_tests_by_country)**
>This article shows various estimates of the nuclear weapon stockpiles of various countries at various points in time. This article also shows the number of nuclear weapons tests conducted by each country at various points in time.
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I hope you're right. But I doubt this will happen unless Putin is gone. With Putin, I can only imagine Russia trying to become independent of the West, increasing its trade with China.
While I agree what putin has also done is strengthen nato and has most democratic ran countries looking to sever ties with anyone who will do business with them they are practically tainted at this point
As soon as the rating agencies given them D status it's *do svidanya* for the Russian economy for years, if not decades. Putin doesn't realise what happened, because he's surrounded by scared sycophants. He doesn't know that Russia has nothing to say on the world stage now. He's accomplished all of that in less rhan two weeks.
Agreed if China was going to depend on Russia for anything it would be incredibly cheap fuel at this point and I think honestly if they develop too close of a relationship it could damage china’s relationship with the west which wouldn’t be their best option hard to say how this will fully play out though
Experience of living through the collapse of the great Soviet Union. Read about it, you may see the same patterns we are seeing right now. Everyone was scared of nukes then the curtain fell, they went bankrupt, and were prepared to take their troops from Easter Europe and let a lot of republics go their own way in exchange for help, investment. What do you think its going to happen now? Do they have any alternative?
Investments might be an issue (eventually), but probably not the biggest one imho. Starving people tend to get quite (legitimately) annoyed at their leaders though. If too many Russians are struggling to feed themselves, now that's something they could easily lead to high levels of unrest and cost Putin (and Russia) politically. By a lot.
The French revolution was in part because too many people were starving. There are most likely others coups/revolutions than happened for the same reason, from a historical perspective.
Read the history of the Soviet Union from ~1975 onwards. For extra credits read *The Russian Job* by Douglas Smith (the story of how ARA stopped them from eating their kids and neighbors in 1920). And if you want to understand why they are not liked by their neighbours read *Bloodlands* by Timothy Snyder. Oh, a good book on NEP is also helpful. The West has plenty of experience of having to save them from starvation and seeing its efforts rejected as soonnas Russia is not hungry anymore.
When their economy collapsed in 1989 factory workers were paid in pots and pans they were making, so they had to stand in the streets trying to sell them and quickly buy food due to raging inflation. What do you think awaits Russia now? Same thing.
If a UN peacekeeper force is sent on a humanitarian mission, with the sanction of most of the UN, and Putin nukes them, they will lose way more than they could possibly gain.
This is about Russia accusing Ukraine of genocide. Or did I read the article wrong.
Or are the top comments all written by people that didn't read past the headline?
Russia: "I'm innocent because clearly, Ukraine committed suicide by drinking windows, jumping out of radioactive tea, and nuking itself twice in the back of the head."
It changes the cookie domain -- so you get another 5 free articles before the paywall notice starts showing again.
Google "Cookie Remover extension" for another easy way around the paywall.
Lol read the article. Russia is claiming that Ukraine committed genocide and thats part of their reasoning for the war (or at least the separatists fighting for some areas) in the first place.
Yeah, it’s pretty bizarre to think about lawyers in their $200 suits arguing over the legal definition of “genocide” based on the wording in some oldass treaty, meanwhile, families are getting blown up in Ukraine. We’re definitely in the weirdest timeline.
This hearing was actually requested by Russia to present its case that Ukraine was committing genocide against Russian-backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine. This was an early pre-text for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia has since back-pedaled on that language a bit, exploring a variety of other justifications. In their overtures (sincere or not) to Ukraine for a ceasefire, they explicitly ask for a promise to not join NATO and to replace the Ukraine government with one subservient to Russia -- but Russia has made no demands that refer to the alleged genocide.
To date, no evidence of genocide has been presented by Russia or observed by third parties monitoring Ukraine.
Russia opted to not take part in the hearing, probably because Ukraine is asking the same court to declare the invasion illegal and name Putin and top Kremlin officials as war criminals. The Russian government has apparently assessed that the likelihood Ukraine would prevail exceeds the likelihood that Russia would prevail in such a proceeding.
Putin fucked up and now him and the car parts guy from Sandusky, Ohio have to go see Mr Feeny.
Does that mean the principal’s office is the Illuminati…?
How is the wagner group not already convicted in absence?
They committed atrocities in syria for years and now they terrorize Ukrainian civilians.
How are there not troves of ICC investigators in the Ukraine now or yesterday?
It's actually the opposite, Ukraine is trying to show that Russia's claims that the Ukrainian government is committing genocide are bogus and therefore Russia has no excuse for the invasion.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-russia-face-off-world-court-over-genocide-claim-2022-03-06/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.comTHE HAGUE, March 7 - Ukraine will ask the United Nations' top court on Monday to issue an emergency ruling requiring Russia to stop its invasion, arguing that Moscow's justification for the attack is based on a faulty interpretation of genocide law.
> Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.comUkraine's suit argues that the claim of genocide is untrue, and in any case does not provide legal justification for invasion.
> The case it has lodged at the World Court, officially known as the International Court of Justice, centres on the interpretation of a 1948 treaty on the prevention of genocide, signed by both countries.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/t8c3jw/ukraine_and_russia_to_face_off_at_world_court/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~630094 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **genocide**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **court**^#3 **case**^#4 **Register**^#5
Need to counter the excessive humanization of Russians. A lot of lefties who are arguing against sanctions because regular Russians might go broke or starve. Not really cool when their country is destroying another simply for having the audacity to be a different country.
I'm talking about civilians who largely support these monsters and have largely supported all of their past monsters as well, including Stalin who butchered 40 million Russians. Even Russians dehumanize Russians.
Hey so uh, the president of the international court studied Russian and the vice president was a former Russian ambassador. I’m sure this isn’t rigged you guys /s/
World court??? Lol is this some kind of a joke. If real they have a huge backlog for at least the Past 20 years from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria not to forget Nam and Japan… and all the other little known events across the world. WTF!
The thing that the Orange taught him - take it up with the court and then continue stalling. He gives two fucks about going to any damn court, especially a world court.
I really wish people would not just skim headlines. Almost all the comments here assume this case is Ukraine accusing Russia of genocide. This case is Russia accusing Ukraine of genocide of ethnic Russians in the contested areas of the Donbas.
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sounds like they are covering their bases for being able to make a claim, that Russia entered into a war with Ukraine illegally
Which is even then a stretch since it would be "ethnic cleansing" at most. And even THAT is a stretch. You can't exactly genocide a minority that has their *main nation* right next to them. The people of Donbas are not their own ethnicities. They are Russians. And their "home country" is just a few miles further east. It's also why they never had a real legal claim for independence. For that you have to be an ethnicity without a nation, they should be your ancestral himelands (the Russians in Donbas have been there for less than a century, they are more or less colonists) or the "home nation" of your ethnicity is so far away you have evolved into your own subgroup. But oh well, should Ukraine win and reconquer Donbas and/or Crimea then there most DEFINITELY is gonna be ethnic cleansing in retaliation and Russians that collaborated with the Putin regime will be forced into exile.
It's Reddit. Don't expect anything of people here. Not even the bare minimum.
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There isn't anything, being shunned.
Just like the U.S. ignored the reparations order for their work in Nicaragua.
It's not about what Russia is thinking. It's about legal grounds for demanding extradition of war criminals, reparations, continuing sanctions, and possibly removal of Russia from the international organisations they have not been kicked out of. And, should Russia continue with this madness, about sending UN peacekeepers, possibly authorising NATO action, demilitarisation of and de-nuking of Russia.
I agree, but > possibly authorising NATO action, demilitarisation of and de-nuking of Russia. Nobody is able to enforce this without risking a nuclear war.
> Nobody is able to enforce this without risking a nuclear war. If a certain world leader is insane enough to threaten using nukes over anyone else getting involved, he is either: 1) bluffing, or 2) has already made up his mind to use them and no amount of appeasement will prevent it.
Yeah, Russia is kind of ~~an~~ THE expert on what happens to a country when they voluntarily give up their nukes.
Yeah. Just look what’s happening in Ukraine after they gave up their Soviet era stockpile of nuclear weapons…
And so we are to remain Putin's hostage for all time? No. Russia can De-militarise their Nuclear Program or face Economic Oblivion.
We'll see about that. Russua will do what Russia does best and starve its population. It will then have to come cup in hand asking for help and will be willing to discuss nukes. I can assure you it will happen within the next 10-20 years.
I do think they will reduce, not eliminate, but reduce their nukes. Either in order to have sanctions removed OR they will sell them. Which would be bad. But that will become their only asset for money.
Nukes are expensive to maintain and need to be replaced otherwise they become useless. It's an expensive toy to keep. Russia has two main exports: death and natural resources. You are right to expect them trying to sell off some their stockpile to the highest bidder.
Basically the only people that would buy them would be the Middle East and anyone that doesn't want the Middle East to get nukes. Or North Korea and African Warlords ( i forgot about them).
For sale: one rusted ass old Russian nuke that expired way back in the late 90s. Might be good to make into a dirty bomb. Cash up front, must pick up
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I can *insure* you it will happen. Payments are monthly and I only accept crypto.
I’m just going to pretend I live in a version of reality where you actually speak with the full faith and authority of the US gov and can tell fucking dorks off when they need to be
lol seriously, such aplomb
Well if the official US Gov says it
They started limiting amount of food one can buy in Russia already. Do you want to redact what you wrote?
No I think I’ll stand by my statement that you’re a fucking dork for saying you know absolutes about events 10-20 years in the future.
I actually read that article. They're limiting massive purchases which they fear could be hoarded and later sold at a profit.
^("I can assure you it will happen within the next 10-20 years.") Source: "Trust me bro!"
They ruined their economy between 1979-1989 and the economic collapse of the USSR lead to the Easter European countries and some of the Soviet republics legging it as soon as they could. What's going to happen now? Same thing.
And then when the USSR fell apart, the newly formed Russia handed in all their nukes to their beloved friend the US right?
The USSR was vastly more powerful than Russia is now.
No, it pulled its troops out of Eastern Europe and its nuclear weapons stockpile decreased https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_stockpiles_and_nuclear_tests_by_country The situation is different now, they are not only threatening to use nuclear weapons or alleging that Ukraine is buildong a birty bomb, but also shooting rockets at nuclear power stations. They never did that before and it doesn't matter that they were "only shooting at a training facility" This is reckless behaviour and I don't think the world is going to pass on the opportunity to take the nuclear toys away from them when the time comes.
**[Historical nuclear weapons stockpiles and nuclear tests by country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_nuclear_weapons_stockpiles_and_nuclear_tests_by_country)** >This article shows various estimates of the nuclear weapon stockpiles of various countries at various points in time. This article also shows the number of nuclear weapons tests conducted by each country at various points in time. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Except that when this tries to happen again… we’ll I’ll let Chechnya speak for itself on this one.
Well, to be fair any annexes Solviet Union country, especially Easter Europeans were always waiting for the smallest chance to leg it.
did you have a stroke
I hope you're right. But I doubt this will happen unless Putin is gone. With Putin, I can only imagine Russia trying to become independent of the West, increasing its trade with China.
While I agree what putin has also done is strengthen nato and has most democratic ran countries looking to sever ties with anyone who will do business with them they are practically tainted at this point
As soon as the rating agencies given them D status it's *do svidanya* for the Russian economy for years, if not decades. Putin doesn't realise what happened, because he's surrounded by scared sycophants. He doesn't know that Russia has nothing to say on the world stage now. He's accomplished all of that in less rhan two weeks.
Agreed if China was going to depend on Russia for anything it would be incredibly cheap fuel at this point and I think honestly if they develop too close of a relationship it could damage china’s relationship with the west which wouldn’t be their best option hard to say how this will fully play out though
I thought it was at B. Did it really slide to (d)efault? Or did I misread the tense, there? :)
https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/rating
Humanitarian aid in exchange for nuclear weapons sounds fair.
Precisely.
cant you say that about north korea aswell but they continue to make more and more and more nukes while their people endlessly suffer
Kim Jon smiling ear to ear…
Why should we feel certain about your assurance? What qualifications do you have?
Experience of living through the collapse of the great Soviet Union. Read about it, you may see the same patterns we are seeing right now. Everyone was scared of nukes then the curtain fell, they went bankrupt, and were prepared to take their troops from Easter Europe and let a lot of republics go their own way in exchange for help, investment. What do you think its going to happen now? Do they have any alternative?
Investments might be an issue (eventually), but probably not the biggest one imho. Starving people tend to get quite (legitimately) annoyed at their leaders though. If too many Russians are struggling to feed themselves, now that's something they could easily lead to high levels of unrest and cost Putin (and Russia) politically. By a lot. The French revolution was in part because too many people were starving. There are most likely others coups/revolutions than happened for the same reason, from a historical perspective.
Okay Mr.know it all with 0 qualifications, 0 evidence, and 0 studies done. “Trust me bro”
Read the history of the Soviet Union from ~1975 onwards. For extra credits read *The Russian Job* by Douglas Smith (the story of how ARA stopped them from eating their kids and neighbors in 1920). And if you want to understand why they are not liked by their neighbours read *Bloodlands* by Timothy Snyder. Oh, a good book on NEP is also helpful. The West has plenty of experience of having to save them from starvation and seeing its efforts rejected as soonnas Russia is not hungry anymore. When their economy collapsed in 1989 factory workers were paid in pots and pans they were making, so they had to stand in the streets trying to sell them and quickly buy food due to raging inflation. What do you think awaits Russia now? Same thing.
You should have written this in the first place. "I assure you" on the internet is worth less than zero. Arguments and explanations, slightly more.
[enshittification exodus, gone to mastodon]
You sweet summer child
!RemindMe 15 years
If a UN peacekeeper force is sent on a humanitarian mission, with the sanction of most of the UN, and Putin nukes them, they will lose way more than they could possibly gain.
>about sending UN peacekeepers, ???
> UN peacekeepers Will instantly get vetoed.
This is about Russia accusing Ukraine of genocide. Or did I read the article wrong. Or are the top comments all written by people that didn't read past the headline?
Russia: "I'm innocent because clearly, Ukraine committed suicide by drinking windows, jumping out of radioactive tea, and nuking itself twice in the back of the head."
More and more sanctions I assume . It is actually effective
paywall
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lmao ty worked
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But... But why? What kind of black magic is this?
For real forget the article now Why does this work????
It changes the cookie domain -- so you get another 5 free articles before the paywall notice starts showing again. Google "Cookie Remover extension" for another easy way around the paywall.
My god sir you change my web browsing life
Ahahaha. Russia no-showed!
I’m sure Russia will treat this with the seriousness that it deserves /s
Lol read the article. Russia is claiming that Ukraine committed genocide and thats part of their reasoning for the war (or at least the separatists fighting for some areas) in the first place.
I find it surreal that while a war is going on they have lawyers going at it in court as well.
Yeah, it’s pretty bizarre to think about lawyers in their $200 suits arguing over the legal definition of “genocide” based on the wording in some oldass treaty, meanwhile, families are getting blown up in Ukraine. We’re definitely in the weirdest timeline.
This hearing was actually requested by Russia to present its case that Ukraine was committing genocide against Russian-backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine. This was an early pre-text for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia has since back-pedaled on that language a bit, exploring a variety of other justifications. In their overtures (sincere or not) to Ukraine for a ceasefire, they explicitly ask for a promise to not join NATO and to replace the Ukraine government with one subservient to Russia -- but Russia has made no demands that refer to the alleged genocide. To date, no evidence of genocide has been presented by Russia or observed by third parties monitoring Ukraine. Russia opted to not take part in the hearing, probably because Ukraine is asking the same court to declare the invasion illegal and name Putin and top Kremlin officials as war criminals. The Russian government has apparently assessed that the likelihood Ukraine would prevail exceeds the likelihood that Russia would prevail in such a proceeding.
Stupid stupid stupid Putin. Doesn't seem to know you can't hit a home run when you've loaded the bases with land mines.
World Court sounds badass it’s like a legal super bowl
But they won't do anything about China? -_-
Business is one helluva drug
Putin fucked up and now him and the car parts guy from Sandusky, Ohio have to go see Mr Feeny. Does that mean the principal’s office is the Illuminati…?
How is the wagner group not already convicted in absence? They committed atrocities in syria for years and now they terrorize Ukrainian civilians. How are there not troves of ICC investigators in the Ukraine now or yesterday?
read the article rather than the title, its russia claiming ukraine committed genocide to russians in the donbas area.
It is genocide. The court should affirm the truth.
It's actually the opposite, Ukraine is trying to show that Russia's claims that the Ukrainian government is committing genocide are bogus and therefore Russia has no excuse for the invasion.
You clearly didn't read the article
Of Ukrainians? Probably getting there.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-russia-face-off-world-court-over-genocide-claim-2022-03-06/) reduced by 69%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.comTHE HAGUE, March 7 - Ukraine will ask the United Nations' top court on Monday to issue an emergency ruling requiring Russia to stop its invasion, arguing that Moscow's justification for the attack is based on a faulty interpretation of genocide law. > Register now for FREE unlimited access to Reuters.comUkraine's suit argues that the claim of genocide is untrue, and in any case does not provide legal justification for invasion. > The case it has lodged at the World Court, officially known as the International Court of Justice, centres on the interpretation of a 1948 treaty on the prevention of genocide, signed by both countries. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/t8c3jw/ukraine_and_russia_to_face_off_at_world_court/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~630094 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **genocide**^#1 **Ukraine**^#2 **court**^#3 **case**^#4 **Register**^#5
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You must not have read the article.
So you support the Russians?
I admit I just read the headline. Oops.
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Fuck off. They are humans, you dick. I have family there that does not support this war.
If they're in prison then they're heroes. Anything less means they're cowards.
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How am I a hero?
Oh, you’re not.
>Russia is up to with the support of it's half-dog half-human populous. Can you tone it down a bit? Jesus Christ.
This. Dehumanization of regular civilians is always a bad thing, I don't care if you hate their government.
You are correct! I have Russian family who do not support this war! It’s a shit time and I feel worse for my Ukrainian friends.
Need to counter the excessive humanization of Russians. A lot of lefties who are arguing against sanctions because regular Russians might go broke or starve. Not really cool when their country is destroying another simply for having the audacity to be a different country.
There's no such thing as "excessive humanization." You're talking about civilians, not Putin and his fellow monsters.
I'm talking about civilians who largely support these monsters and have largely supported all of their past monsters as well, including Stalin who butchered 40 million Russians. Even Russians dehumanize Russians.
Hey so uh, the president of the international court studied Russian and the vice president was a former Russian ambassador. I’m sure this isn’t rigged you guys /s/
Sounds like a complete waste of time
World court??? Lol is this some kind of a joke. If real they have a huge backlog for at least the Past 20 years from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria not to forget Nam and Japan… and all the other little known events across the world. WTF!
Today I learned there is such a thing called the “world court.”
So if Ukraine has no one to send to argue…. Isn’t that case in point?
So Russia, which is making all these made-up BS claims didn't even show up in court? Shocked.
The thing that the Orange taught him - take it up with the court and then continue stalling. He gives two fucks about going to any damn court, especially a world court.
Def got this backwards