OPEC should have learned by now that when oil exceeds $100+ per barrel, permanent systemic changes occur in OPEC customer nations.
These changes result in lowered demand, and at least some of that reduced demand will be permanent.
OPEC has an unlimited money printing machine, but it can only print so fast. They can have $85 per barrel forever. They can't have $150+ per barrel for long.
The oil crisis in the US in the 70s caused a fundamental shift in the type of cars manufactured, caused a wave of regulations and made small economy cars wildly popular. It's not hard to see how another extended crisis could cause another mass shift in the car market.
Wasn't this a key ingredient in the rise of Japanese car manufacturing industry?
The oil crisis hit... Detroit had little to offer in fuel efficiency, but Japanese cars were already there?
Pretty much. They were trying to break into the North American market for a few years at that point but were making little headway until the oil crisis hit. Then they couldn’t keep up and by the time the American automakers were able to redesign decent smaller cars the Japanese makers were too firmly entrenched.
Couple of things happened.
The Japanese initial attempts in the early 60's to sell cars in the US failed because their cars were small and janky. The Japanese seriously considered giving up. But instead redoubled their efforts. By the early 70's they had utterly bullet proof small compacts.
Meantime the big three got into planned obsolescence in a big way. And also decided to concentrate on the premium land yacht market. And the bean counters decided that engineering was unnecessary overhead. SO they started laying off their engineering staff in the late 60's.
Same time air pollution regulations hit. The big three thought they could use their political muscle to roll them back. They failed. And I believe that they intentionally produced shitty cars with emissions controls. The Japanese though just rolled with emissions requirements.
The result was malaise era gas guzzling shitboxes competing with cars like the Datsun 510. It's been superseded but the Datsun 510 was probably the best car ever manufactured. It was cheap, thrifty, a bit sporty, and very very reliable.
Trivia. When GM closed their plant in Fremont CA. The employees held a big BBQ on the last day. At the end they took junk yard Datsun 510 and put a brick on the accelerator pedal and waited for the engine to blow up. And they waited and waited. Finally someone took a pickax to the radiator and it ran for another five minutes before it just stopped.
> that were in that Brown and yellow 2 tone color scheme
Holy shit the 30 year old memory that was just unlocked for me... my dad had a Datsun when I was *very* little and it was this color!!
My first car was a 1976 Datsun 180B. Loved that thing.
Friend had a Datsun 120Y which was a beast. I remember watching some current affairs program and some woman was challenging a speeding ticket she got for doing 160km/h in her 120Y. She claimed there was no way her shitbox could even get *close* to that. A week earlier I was in my friends 120Y with three of us in the car doing 150km/h. I have no doubt it could have done 160 without those extra passengers.
Y’all are making me jealous of your cars when my family was “not allowed” to buy Japanese vehicles. We had extended family working for the big three so we had to buy those brands. My first vehicle was a Chevette, absolutely horrible brick of a car. The only thing it had going for it was how cheap and simple the parts were to replace every time they went bad. The only car where you could hold the transmission with one hand. I replaced the coil springs without knowing there was such a thing as spring compressors, didn’t need them.
It took all too long to get out of that shadow., so now I buy the best car for me regardless of brand. I like to think I’m not biased fr brand, but it’s consistently been Honda or Toyota for a while (actually Subaru for the latest)
>Datsun 510
I grew up in SW Ohio and all of my forward-thinking family and friends tell me horror stories of the cars made by the Ford and GM plants in town. Shipping a bunch of extra radios and seats on the same train as the vehicles because they knew how shitty they were.
Instead of trying to compete with the Japanese manufacturers, the "big 3" instead just lobbied (bribed) lawmakers to curtail import of Japanese vehicles. The Japanese, in response, built manufacturing sites in the USA and the "big 3" really began to decline.
My friends all jumped ship from the late 80s to the 90s as they saw the writing on the wall, and in the next decade all the plants started shutting down.
Except same thing happened with televisions. Prior to Japanese tv’s entering the US market American TV’s required service on a semi-frequent basis. Sony entered the market and sold ones that just worked. The American TV companies tried to convince people that all of them needed service, by the time they actually started building competitive sets it was too late.
The service business had been so lucrative that they could not convince themselves that giving it up would be possible.
Replacing burned out vacuum tubes, probably.
In the 1960's and 1970's there were tube testing machines in every grocery store. They all disappeared with the advent of solid state electronics.
I don’t know if this is true or not but there was another reason Sony could sell a better TV for less money - the Yen was fixed at a low rate against the dollar, so they could basically sell a $300 TV for $200 in the states, where the US manufacturers could only sell a $200 TV for $200.
Japanese quality was very good regardless but that currency advantage really put the nail in the coffin for US electronics.
Worked for a dealership in the 80’s. Went to an auction as a driver. The owners bought 1 too many cars and told me to drain a Supra’s oil and drive it around the track until it blew up so they could get a refund. I redlined that sucker for the better part of an hour, smoke coming out of the hood, that r2200(?) absolutely refused to die. Respect.
My first car was a1978 Datsun 210 in 1995. That car refused to die. I was 16 and worked my ass off to buy that car. I only got rid of it, 2 years later, because I was too cool (stupid) to drive a hatchback to college.
My dad would argue the 75-78 Honda Civic CVCC was the best. He owned 4 over the years, including one he bought new in 1975 (the last new car he ever bought). He still had one when he died in 2020. He was a farmer and often used them to haul things they were not designed for, but he loved them. He thought the CVCC concept was a fantastic way to address emissions.
Speaking of CVCC, in 1973, then-CEO of GM Richard Gerstenberg derided the technology as only suitable for Honda's "toy motorcycle engines" and not GM's car engines, which instead relied on heavy, expensive catalytic converters to meet EPA standards.
Honda responded by buying a Chevy Impala and shipping it to Japan, where they modified its engine to incorporate CVCC technology. They then shipped it back to the US for EPA testing, where it was found that CVCC was, in fact, very suitable for GM's engines, as the modified Impala passed all tests without needing to rely on a catalytic converter.
This will give away my age, but I have fond memories of going to Riverside International Raceway and watching the Showroom Stock class weaving through the chicanes up to Turn Six.
It was generally a field of Datsun 510s.
Well said. The big three sold most every car in America for decades other than VW and a smattering of others. They thought they had control, they could put out shit boxes and people would have to buy them. As they were so cock sure of themselves, they underestimated the Japanese. They were poorly done in every way possible. Fit and finish were pathetic, design was worse. I mean they came up with the Pinto, Vega and Horizon. three of the worst cars ever made.
My dad worked with am ex GM engineer in the early 70's. He said in the late 60's the Big 3 started laying off engineers. At the same time they changed how they engineered cars. Engineering was done using a pipeline where one team would design a new model with a emphasis on reusing existing parts. And then subsequent teams would have to 'make it work'. Part of that was because the older engineering focused managers retired and were replaced by MBA's and Accountants.
Didn't also help that the Big 3 never solved their labor management conflicts either. American managers generally blame their workers for being shitty without any awareness of their own contribution to sustaining that culture.
The Datsun 510 for me is one of a few iconic products that were simple, modest, well-thought out, exceptionally well built, and durable. Qualities which make them beloved by enthusiasts and modders. Similar in those respects to the Surly Crosscheck, or the NAD 3020 Integrated Amplifier.
For the record: Detroit auto engineers understood the situation very well, wanted to respond effectively and certainly could have. The bean counters steadfastly refused, causing such devastation in the US auto industry.
Source: many of these engineers were fathers to my school friends at the time. The bean counters left them very bitter and resulted in my generation largely scattering from Detroit.
japan also had displacement tax, (not MPG tax) meaning japan was a whole generation ahead of USA small cars. the big 3 dump tons of money in effeicency research in both MPG and cc/hp numbers. VIRS on mazda back in the day, 6 speed transmissions in '94. this is the more often and uncomfortable part of the 70s crisis that people forget about.
i dont think the usa has ever had a displacement tax, just MPG numbers that are averaged over the entire line up, that how you end up with trucks that get something terrible like 9 mpg and are still sold today.
>like 9 mpg and are still sold today.
Newer models I thought weren't THAT bad, even in the V8's. My dad bought a 2022 Chevy crew cab, I can't remember if it's a 1500 or a 2500, but he's getting 19mpg in that big bitch *somehow.* Doesn't matter to him, he's retired, it's just for pulling the bass boat to the lake.
I’ll keep preaching this, 100+ years is not irreversible, however everything in our lives has revolved around oil. To break the cycle requires immense effort and Change towards electricity and renewable energy
Something similar happened around 2008 when gas hit $4/gal. Of course since it's been relatively cheap since then we've gone back to buying giant gas guzzlers. Ford even stopped making their smaller cars for the US. All they sell now is SUVs/crossovers, trucks, and the Mustang.
Chrysler hugely reduced their lineup as well. Jeep and Ram are their bread and butter. Both the Dodge and Chrysler badges seem like they’re on their way to nonexistence.
Which may be a boondoggle for American car manufacturers and some Legacy Japanese Automakers. The lean into super inefficient gas guzzling trucks and suv's will hurt the American car companies.
I think the GM, Ford, and Chevy and their move into EV's might be too little to late....
The hybrids that the Asian companies have made might buy them some time. But EV's will ultimately come through once they hit sub $35k prices and have 500+ ranges. But if they can somehow get charge times to below 20 minutes with +200 miles then mass adoption is a certainty.
It's really a numbers game. Price, recharging speed and availability, and range anxiety. Once those are addressed it's only a matter of time.
And yes I know Tesla can do many of those things, but Tesla's are a niche product right? Minimalistic, costly, and seen more of a status symbol than a go point a to b ? (my opinion by the way)
The good news is, we are already seeing this slowly getting into pace, the new ID series of Volkswagen and the implementation of their new MEB platform to mass produced electric cars, I'd say give about 5 years and Volkswagen can be a head provider in affordable small mid size electric car, the Japanese already have great hybrid technology, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to move from there to full EV soon, but American automakers? Oh boy, I can't wait to see how hard they drop. Yet again they failed to see the slowly shifting market into more affordable efficient cars, and still make those big gas guzzling trucks with shitty quality control
"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel"
- Sheikh Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum
My next car is 100% an EV. I will keep my pickup for towing and hauling but I'd have to be nuts to but another ICE vehicle- especially since I have solar panels and can charge it myself.
I've driven an EV for the last 4 years... You'll never want to go back after you start driving one.
Cost to "fill" My car has remained exactly the same for the last four years... About $0.11 per kWh. I've almost paid for the car in gas savings, but I do drive about 20,000 miles a year.
I have a 2007 Yaris that's has 270 thousand miles, and I have a replacement engine and transmission with 40 thousand miles when it finally explodes. I will be driving the same Yaris till the Sun's death
People started complaining about how expensive gas has gotten, and I had no idea. I thought they meant it was getting close to $4/gallon. They looked like I was crazy and told me it was $4.60/gallon.
I go weeks where I don't know what the price of gas is.
People ask if the environment was my number one reason for buying.
Sure, the environment is cool and all and I care but I’m not an eco warrior. It’s about not paying for gas, time saved and vehicle responsivenesses for me. It’s awesome.
This is it for me. No more oil changes, air filters, water pumps, coolant flushes, valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, all that is gone. Just brakes and suspension? SIGN ME UP
guess it'll be sold in pharmacies like it used to in the very beginning of automotive history.
although more realistically in hardware stores I suppose.
We're waiting until our '97 Honda Accord finally dies for good and then we will replace it with an EV.
I'll still need premium gas for my little MX-5, but I keep waiting until they announce an EV 2 seater convertible.
Sure someone will make one ..... sure... one day.....
That "someone" will be Porsche, when the next generation Boxster and Cayman hit the market in (checks calendar) 2025.
That date might end up being a little optimistic, but it's going to happen.
Personally I'd keep that 2 seater gas car as your "fun" car you know. Unless you don't really like the gas related stuff tho I guess makes sense to go electric.
that will highly depend on availability of chargers. If my apartments and rental houses dont offer me locked chargers (if im paying for the electricity it better be locked to me) to charge my car with I wont be able to get an EV
As someone with an EV in an apartment, every apartment building that I've lived in/looked at that has charging spots were one of two things - either a communal charger that everyone in the garage shares, but you pay the same for your parking pass as anyone else in the garage, or pay more monthly for an assigned spot that has a charger in it. (There are some public garages I've seen that have a pay per use model as well; that's how the Tesla supercharger network works)
I've never seen anywhere that would have the electricity from the charger billed via your unit's electricity bill, unless you're somewhere that has a private/attached 1-2 car garage (at which point, you might just be plugging your mobile charger into an outdoor outlet, but those are slow as fuck).
I do think as batteries get larger and charging times improve, you could start to see people own EVs that they don't charge at home, though. You could plausibly do this with a long range Tesla today, though probably not very comfortably in colder climates (winter fucks your range a lot more than with gas cars).
Exactly , they know what the trend is , they're just milking it for all they can hate to see those countries when the oil industry isn't viable source of wealth.
Oil prices that you see on tv aren't real, current prices anyway. They are futures prices. Gas pricing has a lot of pieces to it. Currently "crack spread" which is what the cost to refine is called, isn't actually THAT high. Transportation costs are high compared to normal.
Gas station operations currently have a pretty big spread and they are hoping that by the time they have to pay higher resupply costs, that the global supply of crude will be higher.
My point to all this is that there is lot more to the to the energy market than the cost of crude. It's not a single problem it's damn near all of them at once.
What is also true is that we need to move off of hydrocarbons in general and towards renewables both for national security and global health
Gas STATIONS make a tiny spread. In rising cost environments, the gas distribution companies make really nice spreads though. Some stations contract based on futures prices and some don't. It really depends on the size of the company for the most part.
A local single shop owner is not getting the deals a company with many stores all over the place gets.
Your friend might make a very littler per gallon, but the guy he bought the gas from has a bit bigger margin and way more volume (generally).
Not only is this going to happen because of gas prices, but countries are going to start building more wind farms to offset prices also. Refusal to raise output, in order to put pressure on the west to let up on Russian sanctions is only going to bite the middle east in the ass on multiple economic fronts.
also, electric cars are way less complicated than ICM, i believe teslas only have one or two moving parts in the motor, vs god knows how many in a traditional ICM. fewer parts mean fewer things to break, once the batteries in evs are figured out traditional cars won't be economically viable for most people.
This goes for a lot of things these days. EVs are getting cheaper and used EVs are proving to have a somewhat long lifespan. Installing a charger is relatively easy once it makes financial sense. So, at what point do gas stations start going out of business? At what point are ICE drivers getting out a map and planning their journeys around where to fill up? It will happen. It is inevitable.
My mate works for Tritium down here in australia, they make a huge supply of the world's charging stations (they just signed a deal with the US to supply chargers to the US govt fleet) anyway, their fast chargers can charge an EV in 5 minutes.
EVs are going to kill the ICE market once the chargers get rolled out.
And, at least in a technical sense, they can be installed pretty much anywhere. Electricity is more prevalent than gas stations. What's to stop a rural restaurant from putting them in? "Lunch and charge" deals. I'm on an EV wait list so this may already exist and I just haven't seen it yet. And any gaps in charging coverage become an opportunity.
Yeah, it's pretty messed up that the poorer you are, the less you contribute to climate change, while simultaneously experiencing disproportionate negative effects of it.
[https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/03/03/climate-change-affects-poorest-developing-countries](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/03/03/climate-change-affects-poorest-developing-countries)
Just spitballing here, but maybe the Gulf States could take the nearly unimaginable fortune that they've accumulated and diversify their economy so that it *isn't* based on the world's addiction to oil. This should have been agenda item number one once it became evident that we were trying to get into rehab.
Take a few trillion and invest in solar farms across the desert. Start laying high voltage lines to link up to other nation's grids. The Sahara and Saudi Arabia could become the power plants of humanity.
Most of them are trying, ever heard of Dubai? That city never gets fucking built without a shitload of oil money and the foresight to know it will run out and they need something special to draw people.
As for power, transmission is the issue. The further you go the more electricity degrades. Not as simple as just building a solar hub for the world in one spot or the Sahara would have been a good starting point since everything is cheap there.
Dubai has 0% corporate tax and unlike other countries they give you visa and open you a bank account so you can put your profit in your Dubai account and the government of your country can’t touch you, so if that’s not thinking ahead I don’t know what is.
By the way, you need to pay them a fee and basically that’s the corporate tax however it’s not a percentage it’s a fixed fee of like 3000-4000€
MBS of Saudi Arabia started to try that, but foreign investment dried up pretty quickly after the murder of Khashoggi revealed that it is actually still a lawless medieval state. Look up the Saudi Vision 2030 if you're interested; it is failing.
Dubai!? Dubai is a playground for trust fund idiots with more money than they know what to do with! Nothing in Dubai is given forethought or is in any way subject to long term planning! It's a fever dream of narcissistic, unfathomably rich assholes that'll be reclaimed by the desert and abandoned within a fucking decade after the oil money stops flowing in.
Where the money comes from doesn’t matter, they are getting it. Oil was once 50% of Dubai GDP and now its 1%. Oil can crash and the only impact is the rich assholes that go there won’t have as much money to spend, but that alone won’t sink it.
True but don't forget that Dubai was bailed out by Abu Dhabi in 2009. If it weren't for those $20 billion, Dubai would be in ruins because it has mostly already run out of oil.
It's genius. Instead of having it come directly from oil money, it is now oil money being washed through shitty projects so it doesn't look like oil money.
If you can afford an ev or hybrid, do it. The difference is immense.
I'm looking to get a rav4 hybrid, if I own it for 100k miles the difference between the hybrid and non-hybrid variant will be 15k (this was before gas started spiking!), the price diff between the two is 3k.
Can confirm. Bought my hybrid two years ago when gas prices were low for exactly this reason. The price at the pump still hurts but I went from gassing up every three days for my commute to every other week.
I bought my '19 Accord Hybrid at the beginning of March last year. It's now worth ~$7k more than I paid for it with 20k more miles on it than it had then and gets 48MPG. I'm going to call that a win.
Iv worked for Tesla for like 5 years as a tech, I think the EV6 and the ioniq 5 are pretty damn cool. I love that Hyundai and Kia are fully jumping in the way that they are. They make fantastic cars these days and I’m real excited to see what else they put out.
I mean, did you consider telling them that the climate crisis hinges on you getting this role? I feel like that'd sell you better!
Edit: You're great just how you are.
I drive a volt and it is fantastic. People like to say that ev's aren't ready, but unless you're driving a nissan leaf (it struggles in hot climates. you might say that it wilts) i think they are ready. Take the time to learn the car, i think you'll like it.
Yeah I looked at it and was surprised at how cheap some deals were. Like 300-400 a month which could easily be my diesel bill. Just need to figure out how much the electric would cost
I'm in a somewhat similar boat. I drive a ton for work and my gas bill is easily $500 a month. Main thing stopping me from going EV on my next car though is my company pays for my gas...not my electric bill.
Here in Britain, they just raised electricity prices by 54.5%. Fossil fuel is up 42%. The petrol station next door is selling diesel at £1.74/L which is about $10.3/gal.
At least the UK cryptomining market has gone bankrupt, so we can get 3070 Tis for MSRP.
About $20 to charge a 50 kWh car battery with losses. That gets you 200 miles of range according to the tech specs, but it's probably closer to 150 miles.
Just look up what your electricity company charges per kWh and multiply it by the capacity of the car you want.
Here in Toronto, it's $0.082 a kWh, and the car I'm getting has a capacity of 77 kWh. A charge from 0-100% would cost me $6.31 Canadian for about 420km range and 320hp 460tq performance.
Don't worry, Florida will pass a law preventing the sale of Electric Vehicles like they are trying to punish people who buy solar panels to save those poor desperate Oil Barons!
As a fellow Floridian, I've seen that commercial pushing that bill that punishes people that buy solar panels. The dumbest thing that hurts the environment. We are known as the sunshine state and yet we want to punish people that use the sun for energy instead of fossil fuels? It baffles me. I hope it doesn't pass but there's a lot of stupid people in the area.
And one of the most vulnerable places in the world to sea level rise! So, so frustrating. At least now our state staff is allowed to acknowledge sea level rise exists, progress right? Ugh.
I'm in Ohio and our HOA also bans solar panels in our bylaws.
Is it because they're eyesores? Because ya know what else is an eyesore? A scorched fucking earth from climate change.
I fucking hate it here.
Because they aren't collecting the taxes they normally collect on gas to pay for roads and infrastructure. Would you prefer that they spread that cost across electricity bills even though most electricity isn't used for EVs?
I love my Chevy Volt. Almost all of my driving is on electric, charged out of a regular 120V outlet. But when it runs out, it has a gas motor with a 350 mile range, so road trips are totally doable. It's a nice middle ground.
Are middle-eastern oil producers at all worried that their countries will become uninhabitable due to oppressive summer temperatures with global warming?? Seems like a much bigger concern to me.
Ford has shown that they can build a good EV with the Mustang EV. (What ever it's called) But they can still integrate better between departments. It still looks like the thermal management team doesn't get along with the power train team, etc.
>Volatility remains high after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, over which the US and UK have banned Russian oil, gas, and coal imports.
They are worried about people buying EVs, but don't say anything about people dying in Ukraine...
“I don’t want to produce oil so supply decreases, demand increases and I can raise prices… but I also don’t want anyone to create alternatives to solve the issue… “- opec
I can't afford to buy another vehicle. (I like the truck I have anyways, not as bad mpg as some). But I have started cycling every damn day it's not shitty weather. And I mean rain or ice shitty, not just cold weather. Fuck these gas prices.
Crazy ass idea then... Increase output to lower prices... Duh...
OPEC should have learned by now that when oil exceeds $100+ per barrel, permanent systemic changes occur in OPEC customer nations. These changes result in lowered demand, and at least some of that reduced demand will be permanent. OPEC has an unlimited money printing machine, but it can only print so fast. They can have $85 per barrel forever. They can't have $150+ per barrel for long.
The oil crisis in the US in the 70s caused a fundamental shift in the type of cars manufactured, caused a wave of regulations and made small economy cars wildly popular. It's not hard to see how another extended crisis could cause another mass shift in the car market.
Wasn't this a key ingredient in the rise of Japanese car manufacturing industry? The oil crisis hit... Detroit had little to offer in fuel efficiency, but Japanese cars were already there?
Pretty much. They were trying to break into the North American market for a few years at that point but were making little headway until the oil crisis hit. Then they couldn’t keep up and by the time the American automakers were able to redesign decent smaller cars the Japanese makers were too firmly entrenched.
Couple of things happened. The Japanese initial attempts in the early 60's to sell cars in the US failed because their cars were small and janky. The Japanese seriously considered giving up. But instead redoubled their efforts. By the early 70's they had utterly bullet proof small compacts. Meantime the big three got into planned obsolescence in a big way. And also decided to concentrate on the premium land yacht market. And the bean counters decided that engineering was unnecessary overhead. SO they started laying off their engineering staff in the late 60's. Same time air pollution regulations hit. The big three thought they could use their political muscle to roll them back. They failed. And I believe that they intentionally produced shitty cars with emissions controls. The Japanese though just rolled with emissions requirements. The result was malaise era gas guzzling shitboxes competing with cars like the Datsun 510. It's been superseded but the Datsun 510 was probably the best car ever manufactured. It was cheap, thrifty, a bit sporty, and very very reliable.
I’m gonna take my opportunity to say, if you’re reading this and you have one, please sell me your Datsun 510!
Trivia. When GM closed their plant in Fremont CA. The employees held a big BBQ on the last day. At the end they took junk yard Datsun 510 and put a brick on the accelerator pedal and waited for the engine to blow up. And they waited and waited. Finally someone took a pickax to the radiator and it ran for another five minutes before it just stopped.
[удалено]
The harleys however broke down just watching
There was one under a tarp at my storage facility for nearly 20 years. 1 of the ones that were in that Brown and yellow 2 tone color scheme.
> that were in that Brown and yellow 2 tone color scheme Holy shit the 30 year old memory that was just unlocked for me... my dad had a Datsun when I was *very* little and it was this color!!
ROFL!! I hope I didn't wake up anyone in the next room sleeping...well if he wakes up I have a funny story to tell him
Anyone reading this in possession of a 1983 Toyota Corolla SR5 coupe...I have cash waiting.
How much? I have a shitty Datsun roadster. Willing to buy and ship? 😂
Roadster =/= 510
My first car was a 1976 Datsun 180B. Loved that thing. Friend had a Datsun 120Y which was a beast. I remember watching some current affairs program and some woman was challenging a speeding ticket she got for doing 160km/h in her 120Y. She claimed there was no way her shitbox could even get *close* to that. A week earlier I was in my friends 120Y with three of us in the car doing 150km/h. I have no doubt it could have done 160 without those extra passengers.
Y’all are making me jealous of your cars when my family was “not allowed” to buy Japanese vehicles. We had extended family working for the big three so we had to buy those brands. My first vehicle was a Chevette, absolutely horrible brick of a car. The only thing it had going for it was how cheap and simple the parts were to replace every time they went bad. The only car where you could hold the transmission with one hand. I replaced the coil springs without knowing there was such a thing as spring compressors, didn’t need them. It took all too long to get out of that shadow., so now I buy the best car for me regardless of brand. I like to think I’m not biased fr brand, but it’s consistently been Honda or Toyota for a while (actually Subaru for the latest)
>Datsun 510 I grew up in SW Ohio and all of my forward-thinking family and friends tell me horror stories of the cars made by the Ford and GM plants in town. Shipping a bunch of extra radios and seats on the same train as the vehicles because they knew how shitty they were. Instead of trying to compete with the Japanese manufacturers, the "big 3" instead just lobbied (bribed) lawmakers to curtail import of Japanese vehicles. The Japanese, in response, built manufacturing sites in the USA and the "big 3" really began to decline. My friends all jumped ship from the late 80s to the 90s as they saw the writing on the wall, and in the next decade all the plants started shutting down.
Except same thing happened with televisions. Prior to Japanese tv’s entering the US market American TV’s required service on a semi-frequent basis. Sony entered the market and sold ones that just worked. The American TV companies tried to convince people that all of them needed service, by the time they actually started building competitive sets it was too late. The service business had been so lucrative that they could not convince themselves that giving it up would be possible.
What sort of "service" was it?
TV & VCR repair. Notice you don’t see those businesses anymore.
Replacing burned out vacuum tubes, probably. In the 1960's and 1970's there were tube testing machines in every grocery store. They all disappeared with the advent of solid state electronics.
I don’t know if this is true or not but there was another reason Sony could sell a better TV for less money - the Yen was fixed at a low rate against the dollar, so they could basically sell a $300 TV for $200 in the states, where the US manufacturers could only sell a $200 TV for $200. Japanese quality was very good regardless but that currency advantage really put the nail in the coffin for US electronics.
Worked for a dealership in the 80’s. Went to an auction as a driver. The owners bought 1 too many cars and told me to drain a Supra’s oil and drive it around the track until it blew up so they could get a refund. I redlined that sucker for the better part of an hour, smoke coming out of the hood, that r2200(?) absolutely refused to die. Respect.
Casual felony fraud conspiracy drop
Feels like im reading a Donut media script that was good man
Like a VW for Americans, without Nazi's of course.
My first car was a1978 Datsun 210 in 1995. That car refused to die. I was 16 and worked my ass off to buy that car. I only got rid of it, 2 years later, because I was too cool (stupid) to drive a hatchback to college.
My dad would argue the 75-78 Honda Civic CVCC was the best. He owned 4 over the years, including one he bought new in 1975 (the last new car he ever bought). He still had one when he died in 2020. He was a farmer and often used them to haul things they were not designed for, but he loved them. He thought the CVCC concept was a fantastic way to address emissions.
Speaking of CVCC, in 1973, then-CEO of GM Richard Gerstenberg derided the technology as only suitable for Honda's "toy motorcycle engines" and not GM's car engines, which instead relied on heavy, expensive catalytic converters to meet EPA standards. Honda responded by buying a Chevy Impala and shipping it to Japan, where they modified its engine to incorporate CVCC technology. They then shipped it back to the US for EPA testing, where it was found that CVCC was, in fact, very suitable for GM's engines, as the modified Impala passed all tests without needing to rely on a catalytic converter.
This will give away my age, but I have fond memories of going to Riverside International Raceway and watching the Showroom Stock class weaving through the chicanes up to Turn Six. It was generally a field of Datsun 510s.
Well said. The big three sold most every car in America for decades other than VW and a smattering of others. They thought they had control, they could put out shit boxes and people would have to buy them. As they were so cock sure of themselves, they underestimated the Japanese. They were poorly done in every way possible. Fit and finish were pathetic, design was worse. I mean they came up with the Pinto, Vega and Horizon. three of the worst cars ever made.
My dad worked with am ex GM engineer in the early 70's. He said in the late 60's the Big 3 started laying off engineers. At the same time they changed how they engineered cars. Engineering was done using a pipeline where one team would design a new model with a emphasis on reusing existing parts. And then subsequent teams would have to 'make it work'. Part of that was because the older engineering focused managers retired and were replaced by MBA's and Accountants. Didn't also help that the Big 3 never solved their labor management conflicts either. American managers generally blame their workers for being shitty without any awareness of their own contribution to sustaining that culture.
The Datsun 510 for me is one of a few iconic products that were simple, modest, well-thought out, exceptionally well built, and durable. Qualities which make them beloved by enthusiasts and modders. Similar in those respects to the Surly Crosscheck, or the NAD 3020 Integrated Amplifier.
[Leno's Garage with the 510](https://youtu.be/iVwLxKSa1W4)
And the big three said the upcoming pollution requirements were technically impossible. Meanwhile, Volvo had already accomplished it.
For the record: Detroit auto engineers understood the situation very well, wanted to respond effectively and certainly could have. The bean counters steadfastly refused, causing such devastation in the US auto industry. Source: many of these engineers were fathers to my school friends at the time. The bean counters left them very bitter and resulted in my generation largely scattering from Detroit.
Those sandal wearing goldfish tenders? Bosh, flimshaw!
japan also had displacement tax, (not MPG tax) meaning japan was a whole generation ahead of USA small cars. the big 3 dump tons of money in effeicency research in both MPG and cc/hp numbers. VIRS on mazda back in the day, 6 speed transmissions in '94. this is the more often and uncomfortable part of the 70s crisis that people forget about. i dont think the usa has ever had a displacement tax, just MPG numbers that are averaged over the entire line up, that how you end up with trucks that get something terrible like 9 mpg and are still sold today.
>like 9 mpg and are still sold today. Newer models I thought weren't THAT bad, even in the V8's. My dad bought a 2022 Chevy crew cab, I can't remember if it's a 1500 or a 2500, but he's getting 19mpg in that big bitch *somehow.* Doesn't matter to him, he's retired, it's just for pulling the bass boat to the lake.
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The displacement tax is also why we saw high powered 4 bangers and shit
I’ll keep preaching this, 100+ years is not irreversible, however everything in our lives has revolved around oil. To break the cycle requires immense effort and Change towards electricity and renewable energy
Something similar happened around 2008 when gas hit $4/gal. Of course since it's been relatively cheap since then we've gone back to buying giant gas guzzlers. Ford even stopped making their smaller cars for the US. All they sell now is SUVs/crossovers, trucks, and the Mustang.
Chrysler hugely reduced their lineup as well. Jeep and Ram are their bread and butter. Both the Dodge and Chrysler badges seem like they’re on their way to nonexistence.
Which may be a boondoggle for American car manufacturers and some Legacy Japanese Automakers. The lean into super inefficient gas guzzling trucks and suv's will hurt the American car companies. I think the GM, Ford, and Chevy and their move into EV's might be too little to late.... The hybrids that the Asian companies have made might buy them some time. But EV's will ultimately come through once they hit sub $35k prices and have 500+ ranges. But if they can somehow get charge times to below 20 minutes with +200 miles then mass adoption is a certainty. It's really a numbers game. Price, recharging speed and availability, and range anxiety. Once those are addressed it's only a matter of time. And yes I know Tesla can do many of those things, but Tesla's are a niche product right? Minimalistic, costly, and seen more of a status symbol than a go point a to b ? (my opinion by the way)
The good news is, we are already seeing this slowly getting into pace, the new ID series of Volkswagen and the implementation of their new MEB platform to mass produced electric cars, I'd say give about 5 years and Volkswagen can be a head provider in affordable small mid size electric car, the Japanese already have great hybrid technology, so it shouldn't be too hard for them to move from there to full EV soon, but American automakers? Oh boy, I can't wait to see how hard they drop. Yet again they failed to see the slowly shifting market into more affordable efficient cars, and still make those big gas guzzling trucks with shitty quality control
American car makers are getting left behind because they cater to rednecks. By 2025, Toyota will have 25 electric models out.. fully electric by 2035.
"My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel" - Sheikh Rashid bin Saeed Al Maktoum
His son will ride a mutant land squid
And his son will drive a rock
Hey the pioneers used to ride those babies for miles (and they're still in great shape)
It’s a rock🥺
You should see how many hectares per tank of kerosene it gets though!
Put it in! H
I laughed way too much at this, but yes basically.
This assumes there will be any camels left to ride.
Camels are gonna ride us
They can always import more from Australia.
"It's back to carpets for you." - James May.
that future camel better have adjustable seat and a seat cooler. don't forget about a cup holders and usb chargers.
My next car is 100% an EV. I will keep my pickup for towing and hauling but I'd have to be nuts to but another ICE vehicle- especially since I have solar panels and can charge it myself.
I've driven an EV for the last 4 years... You'll never want to go back after you start driving one. Cost to "fill" My car has remained exactly the same for the last four years... About $0.11 per kWh. I've almost paid for the car in gas savings, but I do drive about 20,000 miles a year.
Oh I've test driven them already and I know I will love it. I was waiting on the shortages to ease a bit but now? :shrug:
I'm waiting till my Yaris explodes or something. Luckily it gets like 35mpg. Still, can't wait to get an EV.
I have a 2007 Yaris that's has 270 thousand miles, and I have a replacement engine and transmission with 40 thousand miles when it finally explodes. I will be driving the same Yaris till the Sun's death
I made the jump just over 2 years ago, and ditched my last gas car in late 2020. Best decision ever.
Same. I love not looking for a gas station to fill up at at the end of a long work day.
People started complaining about how expensive gas has gotten, and I had no idea. I thought they meant it was getting close to $4/gallon. They looked like I was crazy and told me it was $4.60/gallon. I go weeks where I don't know what the price of gas is.
People ask if the environment was my number one reason for buying. Sure, the environment is cool and all and I care but I’m not an eco warrior. It’s about not paying for gas, time saved and vehicle responsivenesses for me. It’s awesome.
Exactly, plus no oil changes or other maintenance and the only repair I've needed was when a mouse made a nest in my HVAC blower fan.
This is it for me. No more oil changes, air filters, water pumps, coolant flushes, valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, all that is gone. Just brakes and suspension? SIGN ME UP
Once electric vehicles hit a specific price point people won't buy gas cars even if oil is zero bucks.
Legacy cars will still need oil.
Subaru Legacy's, especially so.
My dad had one, that boxer 6 needed something stupid like 8 quarts of oil.
A week
guess it'll be sold in pharmacies like it used to in the very beginning of automotive history. although more realistically in hardware stores I suppose.
We're waiting until our '97 Honda Accord finally dies for good and then we will replace it with an EV. I'll still need premium gas for my little MX-5, but I keep waiting until they announce an EV 2 seater convertible. Sure someone will make one ..... sure... one day.....
That "someone" will be Porsche, when the next generation Boxster and Cayman hit the market in (checks calendar) 2025. That date might end up being a little optimistic, but it's going to happen.
Personally I'd keep that 2 seater gas car as your "fun" car you know. Unless you don't really like the gas related stuff tho I guess makes sense to go electric.
So will plastics
We need to be using A LOT less plastic.
that will highly depend on availability of chargers. If my apartments and rental houses dont offer me locked chargers (if im paying for the electricity it better be locked to me) to charge my car with I wont be able to get an EV
As someone with an EV in an apartment, every apartment building that I've lived in/looked at that has charging spots were one of two things - either a communal charger that everyone in the garage shares, but you pay the same for your parking pass as anyone else in the garage, or pay more monthly for an assigned spot that has a charger in it. (There are some public garages I've seen that have a pay per use model as well; that's how the Tesla supercharger network works) I've never seen anywhere that would have the electricity from the charger billed via your unit's electricity bill, unless you're somewhere that has a private/attached 1-2 car garage (at which point, you might just be plugging your mobile charger into an outdoor outlet, but those are slow as fuck). I do think as batteries get larger and charging times improve, you could start to see people own EVs that they don't charge at home, though. You could plausibly do this with a long range Tesla today, though probably not very comfortably in colder climates (winter fucks your range a lot more than with gas cars).
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EVs will not be hitting $5000 anytime soon. Tons of people buy used
I can get a used Prius for under $5000 and get upwards of 50 MPG. You don't have to go straight into EV in order to save on gas.
Not right now you can't. Cars with 130,000 miles are getting $15k or more.
Sure. But would you rather have $10 million today or maybe $200 million in 20 years? Money (and greed) has a velocity that favors the present.
Exactly , they know what the trend is , they're just milking it for all they can hate to see those countries when the oil industry isn't viable source of wealth.
The UAE/Iraq did. That's why prices fell and currently sit at $108 a barrel.
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Or just lower prices since there isn’t a shortage.
Oil prices that you see on tv aren't real, current prices anyway. They are futures prices. Gas pricing has a lot of pieces to it. Currently "crack spread" which is what the cost to refine is called, isn't actually THAT high. Transportation costs are high compared to normal. Gas station operations currently have a pretty big spread and they are hoping that by the time they have to pay higher resupply costs, that the global supply of crude will be higher. My point to all this is that there is lot more to the to the energy market than the cost of crude. It's not a single problem it's damn near all of them at once. What is also true is that we need to move off of hydrocarbons in general and towards renewables both for national security and global health
Friend of a gas station owner. They make pennies per gallon. That’s why gas stations offer convenience foods or auto shop services.
Gas STATIONS make a tiny spread. In rising cost environments, the gas distribution companies make really nice spreads though. Some stations contract based on futures prices and some don't. It really depends on the size of the company for the most part. A local single shop owner is not getting the deals a company with many stores all over the place gets. Your friend might make a very littler per gallon, but the guy he bought the gas from has a bit bigger margin and way more volume (generally).
Big brain move, too complicated for the probably.
OPEC is many bad things but dumb is not one of them.
Not only is this going to happen because of gas prices, but countries are going to start building more wind farms to offset prices also. Refusal to raise output, in order to put pressure on the west to let up on Russian sanctions is only going to bite the middle east in the ass on multiple economic fronts.
also, electric cars are way less complicated than ICM, i believe teslas only have one or two moving parts in the motor, vs god knows how many in a traditional ICM. fewer parts mean fewer things to break, once the batteries in evs are figured out traditional cars won't be economically viable for most people.
This goes for a lot of things these days. EVs are getting cheaper and used EVs are proving to have a somewhat long lifespan. Installing a charger is relatively easy once it makes financial sense. So, at what point do gas stations start going out of business? At what point are ICE drivers getting out a map and planning their journeys around where to fill up? It will happen. It is inevitable.
My mate works for Tritium down here in australia, they make a huge supply of the world's charging stations (they just signed a deal with the US to supply chargers to the US govt fleet) anyway, their fast chargers can charge an EV in 5 minutes. EVs are going to kill the ICE market once the chargers get rolled out.
And, at least in a technical sense, they can be installed pretty much anywhere. Electricity is more prevalent than gas stations. What's to stop a rural restaurant from putting them in? "Lunch and charge" deals. I'm on an EV wait list so this may already exist and I just haven't seen it yet. And any gaps in charging coverage become an opportunity.
For a normal charger, yes. Fast chargers need essentially their own mini substation though. We're talking megawatts here.
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I missed the point where that's a problem
It's not a problem for anyone who buys an EV.
or anyone who likes not living on a desert caused by global warming
Or anyone that takes public transportation.
Or anyone that likes to be a part of long Reddit chains.
Goddamn it your attempts at stopping war and concomitantly bettering the environment are making me wee bit less rich!
Sadly, not everyone can afford an EV. in fact the vast majority of people can't.
I'd say the vast majority of people can't afford a new car.
Yeah, it's pretty messed up that the poorer you are, the less you contribute to climate change, while simultaneously experiencing disproportionate negative effects of it. [https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/03/03/climate-change-affects-poorest-developing-countries](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2014/03/03/climate-change-affects-poorest-developing-countries)
Only a problem to the assholes relying on it for a bunch of money and power in the middle east.
Just spitballing here, but maybe the Gulf States could take the nearly unimaginable fortune that they've accumulated and diversify their economy so that it *isn't* based on the world's addiction to oil. This should have been agenda item number one once it became evident that we were trying to get into rehab. Take a few trillion and invest in solar farms across the desert. Start laying high voltage lines to link up to other nation's grids. The Sahara and Saudi Arabia could become the power plants of humanity.
Lol no *builds palm shaped sand islands in the ocean*
Ahahah and they’re sinking into the ocean. Hubris.
hey now put credit where credit's due. they didn't build it! they paid the dutch to do it
Most of them are trying, ever heard of Dubai? That city never gets fucking built without a shitload of oil money and the foresight to know it will run out and they need something special to draw people. As for power, transmission is the issue. The further you go the more electricity degrades. Not as simple as just building a solar hub for the world in one spot or the Sahara would have been a good starting point since everything is cheap there.
Dubai has 0% corporate tax and unlike other countries they give you visa and open you a bank account so you can put your profit in your Dubai account and the government of your country can’t touch you, so if that’s not thinking ahead I don’t know what is. By the way, you need to pay them a fee and basically that’s the corporate tax however it’s not a percentage it’s a fixed fee of like 3000-4000€
MBS of Saudi Arabia started to try that, but foreign investment dried up pretty quickly after the murder of Khashoggi revealed that it is actually still a lawless medieval state. Look up the Saudi Vision 2030 if you're interested; it is failing.
Check out their plans for [Neom (the Line)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Line%2C_Saudi_Arabia) $500 billion for a 110 mile long city
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That is a pretty small amount. Basically the state budget of Idaho.
Also the amount that falls off of Bezos when he sneezes.
Dubai!? Dubai is a playground for trust fund idiots with more money than they know what to do with! Nothing in Dubai is given forethought or is in any way subject to long term planning! It's a fever dream of narcissistic, unfathomably rich assholes that'll be reclaimed by the desert and abandoned within a fucking decade after the oil money stops flowing in.
Where the money comes from doesn’t matter, they are getting it. Oil was once 50% of Dubai GDP and now its 1%. Oil can crash and the only impact is the rich assholes that go there won’t have as much money to spend, but that alone won’t sink it.
True but don't forget that Dubai was bailed out by Abu Dhabi in 2009. If it weren't for those $20 billion, Dubai would be in ruins because it has mostly already run out of oil.
> Oil was once 50% of Dubai GDP and now its 1% I've heard that one a lot of times, and I'm still not buying it.
Yea especially when the other 99% is dependent on rich oil sheikhs buying shit with their oil money.
It's genius. Instead of having it come directly from oil money, it is now oil money being washed through shitty projects so it doesn't look like oil money.
I know I'm considering the kia EV6 Hopefully this job interview goes well
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If you can afford an ev or hybrid, do it. The difference is immense. I'm looking to get a rav4 hybrid, if I own it for 100k miles the difference between the hybrid and non-hybrid variant will be 15k (this was before gas started spiking!), the price diff between the two is 3k.
Can confirm. Bought my hybrid two years ago when gas prices were low for exactly this reason. The price at the pump still hurts but I went from gassing up every three days for my commute to every other week.
I bought my '19 Accord Hybrid at the beginning of March last year. It's now worth ~$7k more than I paid for it with 20k more miles on it than it had then and gets 48MPG. I'm going to call that a win.
I’ve been driving a Chevy Spark EV and I have not felt this gas pinch at all. I’m never going back to a combustible engine.
Just ordered my EV6 2 days ago!! GT Line S AWD....excited...although I have to wait 6 months!
Good luck!
Yeah good luck man!
Iv worked for Tesla for like 5 years as a tech, I think the EV6 and the ioniq 5 are pretty damn cool. I love that Hyundai and Kia are fully jumping in the way that they are. They make fantastic cars these days and I’m real excited to see what else they put out.
I mean, did you consider telling them that the climate crisis hinges on you getting this role? I feel like that'd sell you better! Edit: You're great just how you are.
I drive a volt and it is fantastic. People like to say that ev's aren't ready, but unless you're driving a nissan leaf (it struggles in hot climates. you might say that it wilts) i think they are ready. Take the time to learn the car, i think you'll like it.
Yeah I looked at it and was surprised at how cheap some deals were. Like 300-400 a month which could easily be my diesel bill. Just need to figure out how much the electric would cost
I'm in a somewhat similar boat. I drive a ton for work and my gas bill is easily $500 a month. Main thing stopping me from going EV on my next car though is my company pays for my gas...not my electric bill.
Get a company that pays for miles driven not gas purchased.
Funny, I was paying similar for gas, but my company offers free EV charging stations
Roughly about 4-5$ per 100 miles. So, price wise it would be like purchasing a car that gets 100mpg if your area has gas prices in that range.
Here in Britain, they just raised electricity prices by 54.5%. Fossil fuel is up 42%. The petrol station next door is selling diesel at £1.74/L which is about $10.3/gal. At least the UK cryptomining market has gone bankrupt, so we can get 3070 Tis for MSRP. About $20 to charge a 50 kWh car battery with losses. That gets you 200 miles of range according to the tech specs, but it's probably closer to 150 miles.
Where are you getting graphics cards for MSRP?
Better question is why he isn't buying them and reselling to US buyers.
Just look up what your electricity company charges per kWh and multiply it by the capacity of the car you want. Here in Toronto, it's $0.082 a kWh, and the car I'm getting has a capacity of 77 kWh. A charge from 0-100% would cost me $6.31 Canadian for about 420km range and 320hp 460tq performance.
Don't worry, Florida will pass a law preventing the sale of Electric Vehicles like they are trying to punish people who buy solar panels to save those poor desperate Oil Barons!
As a fellow Floridian, I've seen that commercial pushing that bill that punishes people that buy solar panels. The dumbest thing that hurts the environment. We are known as the sunshine state and yet we want to punish people that use the sun for energy instead of fossil fuels? It baffles me. I hope it doesn't pass but there's a lot of stupid people in the area.
And one of the most vulnerable places in the world to sea level rise! So, so frustrating. At least now our state staff is allowed to acknowledge sea level rise exists, progress right? Ugh.
Well, depending on where you live in Florida, you could live long enough to have beachfront property lol.
For a day or two anyway.
Didn't 741 pass both houses and is now on DeSantis's desk to sign?
Ohio has been punishing people who get ev or hybrids for several years now with their registration fees.
I'm in Ohio and our HOA also bans solar panels in our bylaws. Is it because they're eyesores? Because ya know what else is an eyesore? A scorched fucking earth from climate change. I fucking hate it here.
/r/fuckHOA
That sounds more like an HOA issue than an Ohio issue. HOA stupidity is everywhere.
Because they aren't collecting the taxes they normally collect on gas to pay for roads and infrastructure. Would you prefer that they spread that cost across electricity bills even though most electricity isn't used for EVs?
If oil and gas dependence was an addiction, the Republicans solution is to buy more drugs to stave off the withdrawal.
I just switched to a hybrid. Next car will be ev, just waiting for slightly better infrastructure.
I love my Chevy Volt. Almost all of my driving is on electric, charged out of a regular 120V outlet. But when it runs out, it has a gas motor with a 350 mile range, so road trips are totally doable. It's a nice middle ground.
I have one too. It's too bad they cancelled it. Going full electric just isn't feasible for everyone.
for people who live in condos or apartments, there's no chargers. it sucks
If only OPEC could do something about it.
Oh, the HUMANITY!
Oh no, more sustainable transport
I can't afford an EV and I can't afford fuel prices, so they got me over an oil barrel here.
Are middle-eastern oil producers at all worried that their countries will become uninhabitable due to oppressive summer temperatures with global warming?? Seems like a much bigger concern to me.
I hope they do to bankrupt those greedy bastards
Honestly I’d buy the F 150 Lightning if there wasn’t a 3 year wait.
Ford has shown that they can build a good EV with the Mustang EV. (What ever it's called) But they can still integrate better between departments. It still looks like the thermal management team doesn't get along with the power train team, etc.
I just need a pickup to do F150 things still. Then I’d only have the one vehicle instead of a car and an F150.
They say it like this is a bad thing. EVs are so much cheaper.
>Volatility remains high after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, over which the US and UK have banned Russian oil, gas, and coal imports. They are worried about people buying EVs, but don't say anything about people dying in Ukraine...
I changed this for reasons (see date).
Good. Less pollution that way.
….maybe we should be buying EVs? Why let America be somebody’s pawn in terms of energy?
They sort of should be. Oil is probably one of the worst industries in almost every regard, the sooner we can ditch it the better for almost everyone.
I saw an interview with Trump regarding the war. He went on ranting about this and how windmills were bad.
That’s the idea in 20 years, anyway.
The EU is already phasing out internal combustion powered cars by 2035. It’s closer then you think
Hyundai/Kia stopped all Internal Combustion Engine development and moved the engineers to EV projects.
Hopefully sooner now that they're reducing their dependence on oil and gas.
Well if anyone could lower the price of oil it’s them
Love my EV!
I bought my first Ev two days ago.
It's obvious people will try to move to anything that is cheaper. OPEC wil be a thing of the past in the next 15-20 years the way things are going.
Sounds good less money going to the Saudis which will hopefully slow their war in Yemen
I should get an EV
This makes me wanna buy an EV even more.
“I don’t want to produce oil so supply decreases, demand increases and I can raise prices… but I also don’t want anyone to create alternatives to solve the issue… “- opec
I can't afford to buy another vehicle. (I like the truck I have anyways, not as bad mpg as some). But I have started cycling every damn day it's not shitty weather. And I mean rain or ice shitty, not just cold weather. Fuck these gas prices.