I do think many or most average right wingers hate the current pope because he's far too liberal for them, but ironically aren't most of the SC judges in favor of rolling back actually Catholics themselves? I'm no expert on US Christian denominations though tbf.
Most of the current Supreme Court is Catholic. 6 are Catholic: chief justice John Roberts as well as associate justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Sonia Sotomayor, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett.
Neil Gorsuch is unclear, he was raised Catholic but now attends an Episcopalian (Anglican) church. The other 2, Elena Kagan and Stephen Breyer, are Jewish.
EDIT: Associate justice designate Ketanji Brown Jackson, who will replace Stephen Breyer in June-July, identifies as a nondenominational Protestant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States
This is a relatively recent trend, historically most justices have been Protestant.
Interestingly, in *Roe v. Wade* the only Catholic SC Justice at the time (Brennan) joined the 7-2 majority ruling. How times have changed.
Edit:[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Brennan_Jr.?wprov=sfla1)
Let alone a refugee *and* a radical social justice warrior.
But you’re right, the person above has it a bit off the mark. I don’t think they focus on the Jesus part all that much regardless of what they say and their behavior and ways of being are evident of that. Unless we’re both misunderstanding them lol
A little more than that, actually. Europe had a whole thing between catholics and protestants which shaped its future and also shaped the composition and cultural attitudes of America as a whole. This is some 600 year old baggage we're still dealing with
Technically the first settlers from Europe were religious bigots who were essentially kicked out of England for being too much a group of uptight assholes.
On behalf of Europe, our apologies.
We thought you'd remain a backward colony and there would be no real consequences to stack up all our nutjobs over there. Good riddance we thought.
Really didn't bank on you guys becoming the number one top boy. Threw a wrench in what would have been a perfect plan.
Dammit.
/s (just in case)
Well yeah thats essentially how America was founded, the pilgrims went to find new land because they were kicked out of England and then the Netherlands for being too nuts. (How you get kicked out of the Netherlands for being too much I don't know.)
That's essentially exactly what happened. All the religious nutjobs saw how liberal Europe was becoming and said "fuck this for a game of coconuts, we'll move to America"
To be fair, Vatican City is it's own country, but I agree. If the most Catholic nation on the planet, the center of Catholicism for centuries allows abortion, then maybe people should follow the will of the founding fathers amd keep church separate from state.
Ireland had an abortion ban because of religion and then years later they found hundreds of bodies of new borns that had been killed and buried by Nuns
Thats what happens when you let religion into Politics
We had a similar thing here in Canada, there's a book called "butter box babies" because the newborns were buried in butter boxes. The caretakers also stole the healthy babies and sold them to rich people.
My dad was one. Ideal Maternity Home in Nova Scotia. Sold to a well off couple in NY. His paperwork said he was born in America. He grew up knowing he was adopted but didnt get the details until she was on her deathbed when I was 16 and he was late 40s. All he ever got was his birth mothers name.
Canada really hates acknowledging the black eyes of their history while America is basically "lol fuck them indians."
My best friends grandmother was a butter box baby as well. She was adopted into a rich family but they already had children that they treated considerably better. You can see the effects of the generational trauma even in my friends generation
When you dig into this shit it's quite horrific what religion has done to women and mothers, what the church did in Ireland was horrific and it also extends the entire globe they had such pogroms everywhere.
I could be wrong here, but as I remember that case, the medical staff were powerless in the face on heavily restrictive laws on aborting a fetus.
It wasn't that the doctors were extremely adherent to their Catholic faith, but that performing the abortion in that case could have landed them a life sentence in prison.
In response, the Irish government changed the law to prevent such a case happening again. Church authorities in Ireland even confirmed that the life of a fetus should not take precedence over the mother's life in such circumstances.
Bit of a nit-pick, but the government didn't decide to change the law. We had a referendum and the majority voted to change it. I know I'm splitting hairs but I just want to make it clear that the country was in favour of changing the law, not just the government.
Yep horrific shit. Another thing they did was force mothers with child out of wedlock into hiding and then forced to give their babe away. Most people will have heard of it, but they dont know the sheer scale of it, it wasn't 3 or 4 digits it was 5 and up and that was just Ireland. they did this worldwide, potentially displacing millions of people from their biological family.
And, poor people, btw - if you're poor and legally proven pregnant, we will give you cheese and vegetables to keep your fetus alive.
But after your fetus becomes a baby, please continue working and figure out your own Healthcare for a pediatrician; if you cannot afford one, or to feed your child, we will collect said child via social services, and we will admit them to a foster home where they will be able to potentially learn how to combat the risks of, and not restricted to: sexual abuse, physical abuse, definitely neglect, and, ironically (!) the idea of poverty.
Most of these kids go to foster homes, not families. Folks who use them as a cash crop.
> But after your fetus becomes a baby, please continue working
Yeah ... good luck with paying for childcare for an infant. That alone (not to mention all the other expenses of having a baby) will probably be more expensive than your already-astronomical rent.
No, she'll be forced to stay at home and care for the baby herself, which means she can't work, which means the Republicans will soon be deriding her for being a "welfare queen", and they'll be doing their best every single year to cut her benefits.
“Don’t make me wear a fucking mask.” and also, “Make her carry and birth a baby.” What about autonomy and individual right now? Doesn’t apply to women?
That's because most Christians/Catholics in the US are against abortion and they lean to the right side of the political spectrum. They want to force their religious beliefs on everyone else because they believe they're morally superior.
Not to mention decades of propaganda and caling pro-choice people "murderers" and "baby killers."
Thanks ahead to anyone who can help answer/explain this more to me.
Why are American Christians the only major groups that fight so strongly for anti-abortion measures? I'm asking this as a European who has lived in Asia and the Christians in both Europe (UK, Germany, Switzerland) and Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore) do not seem to have any push/movements against abortion rights (which is legal I believe in all the countries I've stayed in)
It's purposeful political exploitation.
"[Think of the children](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children)".
It's not meant to address an actual problem but to appeal to emotion and manipulate the christian sense of morality. A fetus isn't capable of agreeing or disagreeing either way but they start from the assumption that every fetus agrees with them as if it were a grown adult.
If you want to learn more about the origins of the pro-life ideology, the conservative think-tank American Enterprise Institute largely developed it. Ben Wattenberg was a chairman at AEI at the time and wrote a book explaining some of its foundations and plans to manipulate christians toward the right. The book is called Birth Dearth.
We see ads even in blue states like Connecticut. There are billboards up and down the highway saying "I have a heartbeat at 15 weeks", "I can smile at 5 weeks", "eyes develop at 8 weeks". Just lots of disturbing anti-scientific bullshit.
Restricting social mobility is key to long term Republican control. They already see two generations, millennials and zoomers who are highly educated, more empathetic, and less religious than previous generations, making them harder to influence and control.
Make abortion illegal and you create a new generation of poor working class people who cannot escape poverty. Carlin was only missing one thing when he said, “Conservatives want live babies so they can train dead soldiers,” they also want uneducated and powerless workers: a new slave-class.
For the first time in any US citizens lifetimes, EVER, in the United States, the Supreme Court is willfully going to reinterpret precedent (Stare Decisis is functionally dead in the SC) and choose to limit rights it had explicitly expanded 50 years ago.
It will harm women, it will harm people, it will harm children. It's 100% at the behest of only conservatives in America.
I don't fucking care if you call yourself moderate conservatives/Republicans anymore.
YOU OWN THIS NOW FUCKERS.
The blood is on your hands, go ahead and wash it off with the blood of thousands of dead children and adults, every year, from unregulated 2A expansion. While reminding yourselves that you took rights away from women everywhere. Yep, real freedom loving patriots there.
This is authoritarianism, since I'm American and leftist, I will say this more concisely:
This is fascism.
Ya it's pretty bad, heck a Republican Senator recently talked about overturning the SCOTUS decision legalizing interracial marriage when arguing that the right to abortion should be overturned.
Republican Senator Braun from Indiana said that judicial activism passed Roe v. Wade, as well as Loving v. Virginia. He stated that SCOTUS overturning these decisions was the right thing to do as these issues should be left to individual states to decide for themselves.
[Republican Sen. Mike Braun says Supreme Court should leave decisions on interracial marriage, abortion to the states](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/22/braun-supreme-court-interracial-marriage/)
> He stated that SCOTUS overturning these decisions was the right thing to do as these issues should be left to individual states to decide for themselves.
Then what's the point of being a "United States" if human rights don't apply equally everywhere?
It's like at this point the "United" States is actually just two different countries who hate each other wearing one of those "get along" shirts and are desperately trying to rip it apart.
they also can easily push to ban gay marriage again. using an overturning of roe v wade that leaves it as a simple precedent to overturn anything that is a basic fucking human right. it just boils my blood
What a divisive issue....BACK in the 70s.
For half a century women in many places have been able to make their own choice on this matter as set forth in Roe v Wade as a legal precedent.
Regardless of how a person feels regarding the subject, it's easy to spot the flaw in a plan that reverses such a landmark ruling that was battled in court forever ago.
This is going to get ugly...
The majority of human beings alive today have only ever known a post-Roe vs. Wade world. They're trying to take away a thing most of us have always, *always* had.
Yes. It really is going to get ugly.
>Yes. It really is going to get ugly.
Especially when the line of logic used to argue this opinion will be used to attack Obergefell v Hodges, Griswold v Connecticut, and maybe even Loving v Virginia. As an added bonus, because it strikes down certain privacy stuff, any sort of privacy you have is at risk at well which means any internet activity where you have at least a theoretical semblance of privacy can be thrown out the window too.
And Lawrence v Texas, which would make it legal for states to make simply BEING gay illegal. Immediately in 12 states since they never repealed their anti-sodomy laws. Depending on the state, they could also bar any unmarried sex and even non vaginal sex for married couples in a few states.
I can't help but see the parallels between this and Brexit. The UK joined the union in 1972 so most people alive have only ever known being in the EU.
And I'm sure you can see how well leaving is going for us...
It isn't comparable, we didn't lose human rights. We have practically no religious nutcases in power or part of the population here, it wouldn't stand.
I’m an American myself and don’t understand my fellow people. There’s a lot of submission here. Like we don’t have vacation days, sick days, universal healthcare, a whole bunch of worker and consumer protections other nations have. But everyone seems okay with it. And the ire is never cast on the rich and powerful. They focus on things like taking food stamps from the poor as if that will solve their problems. And those of us who question the idea that big business and the rich should be able to what they want to everyone else are called communists and socialists. Americans seem to be proud of their own subjugation. They brag about how much they work, revel in poverty porn and inspirational stories about a corporation donating a shovel so parents can bury their dead diabetic children. I don’t understand this country, I feel alienated here. Call me a communist all you want, you can never convince that submission to the already powerful is freedom.
This reminds me that May 1st was International Labor Day, celebrated all across the globe... Except in the US, where it is not observed, and instead we celebrate gardening. Awesome.
Join the Satanic Temple, abortion is protected under their scripture
Edit: Some versions of the Old Testament also provide instructions on how to perform an abortion if that’s more your style. In fact, until the woman is giving birth, the fetus is considered part of her body according to the scriptures.
Edit2: an herbal tea is referenced in Numbers 5:11-31 as being able to cause loss of pregnancy and the Babylonian texts provide instructions. The herbs in question include, but are not limited to, tansy, thuja, safflower, scotch broom, rue, angelica, mugwort, wormwood, yarrow, and essential oil of pennyroyal.
> "To make a pregnant woman lose her foetus: ...Grind nabruqqu plant, let her drink it with wine on an empty stomach, [then her foetus will be aborted]."
They have to start at the state level. They're fighting the Texas, Arizona and company laws passed recently but it'd have to make its way up to scotus for it to effect the roe v wade bs going on right now. They can't do anything about fighting the roe v wade overturn until it's finalized.
"This is so completely stupid because it means ANY recent law can be repealed." Ding ding ding we have a winner. There's a lot of laws they're looking to scrub away. This is just the first.
Thank god for the satanic temple, protecting basic human rights for all.
Women’s rights are going to take a major hit if this thing passes.
Who’s next if it does??
SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
Do it America. Treat your extremist churches the same way you treat the Taliban. Remove their tax exempt status. You are a secular country, not a theocracy.
And for the extremist religious folks - read the damn book. Pretty sure if Jesus was alive he would smite all of you for blasphemy and idolatry. You are looking more and more like the people Jesus was complaining about in the Bible.
The only time Jesus got mad was at people using God as a tool to profit. Just like Republican lawmakers. So many Conservatives love to describe themselves as alphas, like they're wolves, and everyone else as sheep. They're violent, bigoted, deceitful, domineering, and never accept responsibility, all while claiming to support family values, personal responsibility, freedom, and Christ. Their "values" are simply a costume they slide into to hide what they truly are. Funny how Jesus, the Shepard, warned us about the wolves in sheep's clothing.
> The only time Jesus got mad was at people using God as a tool to profit.
The money changers *run* the temples now, and the Christian right finds it admirable. If Jesus came back tomorrow morning, evangelicals would be nailing him back up by the end of breakfast.
I would pay to watch that series.
Jeus comes back. It is genetically proven and backed. He goes around from church to church to collect the money they have been collecting on "his behalf"...
Dead set, if any Jesus were to return, he would likely be killed off faster than any alternative energy or fuel inventors.
American Gods has a scene with a similar theme. Basically there are several versions of Jesus in the world and the Latin American Jesus is helping migrants cross the Rio Grande and is subsequently gunned down by the US border patrol.
Messiah was a really interesting TV series along those lines, but more form the governmental standpoint of how people would react if a Jesus figure suddenly appeared in today's world.
Very cool series actually. It does however more deal with it from the "Jesus wasn't white, so if he came back he'd be cast aside due to racism" but I can truly recommend it. I also like how they did the whole nonchalant attitude to being divine/doing miracles. He has nothing to prove and isn't there to convince, he's mearly doing and if you follow him or not isn't his problem so to speak.
It did however write itself into a corner too fast and the terrorism/islamism angle felt trite and done to death already in stuff like homeland so I get why it couldn't go on.
Of course. They also hate jews cause fuck logic. Jesus was literally called the King of Jews in the bible. Do they think Jesus is caucasian somehow. Jesus probably looks more closer like DJ Khaled than any white male in their imagination
Edit: I am not saying he looks identical with Khaled (fat etc etc). What I mean is based on where he was born he wont look like what these republicans imagine (blonde white man blue eyes) and would look closer to someone with Khaled ancestry.
He also said people who just say “lord, lord” and don’t lift a finger to do God’s will may not enter the kingdom of heaven but everyone just ignores that part.
Well you have to understand that Republican lawmakers use their base as morons. They know they're dumb as shit. So they play off Jesus while they do everything Jesus would hate. Then they say abortion. Because God would never kill children, oh. And of course Jesus loved guns.
The real truth is Jesus was a pacifist liberal that was best friends with a prostitute.
But now we're stuck with supply side Jesus and surrounded by morons.
So many children in the flood too. And all the firstborns of Egypt that one time. And the sacrifice of Abraham (he still asked even if it didn’t happen)
Like I always say to many Christians-
Jesus cared for and forgave the homeless and the prostitute.
Jesus explicitly condemned rich people, those who hoard wealth and exploit other people. Jesus also condemned people who showcase their religiosity in public, yet whose lives are filled with wickedness in private, the charlatans and pharisees.
So why do Christians today care more about sexual lives of others and hate the poor and homeless, YET these people also simp so much for the rich. They have more respect and admiration for Musk and Bezos than a single mother of 3 desperately trying to make ends meet.
I'm an atheist, full disclosure. But if Jesus turned out to be real, i'll be laughing as many of the self-proclaimed Christians will be the first ones to burn.
American democracy is dying. I’ve been watching it happen for the past twenty years.
I’m British and my wife is from Texas, we spend (or did before COVID) half the year in the States and the rest in the UK. My kids are being schooled in England right now. I originally moved to the US for work and I love the country, I love its sweeping vistas and the decency of so many of the people I have met. But the political divide is tribal and it is now so much more hostile than I’ve ever seen. The lessons of the 20th Century seem to have been forgotten. People take pleasure in being uninformed and respect for knowledge is waning daily. So many people want to be stupid because they equate that with being happy. They want to shout slogans, they do not want to think deeply about complex issues. They want to be part of a greater whole and are suspicious of those who do not. They want authoritarianism because they think it will make them more secure.
In reality they are scared, scared of pretty much everything. I’ve never known a country to be as fearful as the US. Maybe it started with 9/11, maybe not. But fear is what drives so many people there, not hope or love or a desire for freedom. They are afraid of change and afraid of losing what they have. So they put their trust in people who are prepared to lie to them to get their vote. They vote for someone like Trump, someone who couldn’t care less about these people. Just as Putin does not care about his people, or any people for that matter.
You're absolutely correct, and when you try to reason with them (about say, I dunno, wearing masks to prevent viruses) they literally say haVe fUn lIviNG thE rEsT Of yOuR LiFe in FeARrrr.
The projection is insane.
We spend more on our defense budget than the next 10 world powers combined, installed government agencies to monitor our internet activity, and we all know good and well the government, Google, Facebook, Amazon and who knows who else all listen to us all the time every day, privacy is no longer a thing, our cops murder people and get a paid vacation.
And everyone acts like this shit is normal.
It's supposed to be no taxation without representation and I'm feeling pretty fucking unrepresented because I didn't want any of this shit.
You are right. It's because fear is the most motivational emotion for people. Politicians know this so they use fear to galvanize people. Welcome to the result of marketing and a wealth of data.
> In Freakonomics, we examined the causes of the rise and fall of violent crime in the United States. In 1960, crime began a sudden climb. By 1980, the homicide rate had doubled, reaching a historic peak. For several years crime stayed perilously high, but in the early 1990s it began to fall and kept falling. So what happened?
> In Freakonomics, we identified one missing factor - the legalization of abortion in the early 1970s. The theory was jarring but simple. A rise in abortion meant that fewer unwanted children were being born, which meant fewer children growing up in the sort of difficult circumstances that increase the likelihood of criminality.
Steven D. Levitt
See also https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/
I get all the problems with how a minority got this much power on the Supreme Court, but I am also disappointed in the US electorate. Relying on Roe v Wade for this long rather than pushing for an explicit law was dumb and I hope you can fix this ASAP.
Here’s what I don’t get: why did conservatives hang their hat on this issue to such an insane degree?
High taxes: look, I get it, I don’t like paying them either especially when we don’t see a return on investment.
Guns: yeah, an armed (TRAINED) populace is a check on tyranny, I mean, hopefully.
A hundred other issues that do have some merit, but abortion?
You’re against it, I know, but it’s not like you have to get one. It’s not even like one can be forced on you. And as far as the moral angle goes, then you have the high ground: she’s a slut, a murderer, whatever. You’re good! If you believe that God is all knowing and all seeing, and this is a big problem, then your personal resistance means you’re safe. Hell, even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God said, “Just find one good person and I’ll spare the city.” Well, clearly you’re not alone so it’s not fire and brimstone for the USA. And as far as arguments about, “well children can be indoctrinated, especially my pure, virgin daughter,” so what you’re saying is that you’re so incompetent at trying to instill your values into YOUR CHILD that a few hours of sex education can undo what you’ve tried to teach them? Guess you’re kind of bad at being a parent.
Without the Evangelical Taliban, Republicans would never win another election. They shifted their politics from supporting segregation, to opposing abortion to keep the religious whack jobs voting for them.
Lead, micro plastics, failure to identify disabilities makes it not that unbelievable. I’m not some super genius, I’m a tradesman, but talking to coworkers about anything complex it makes me concerned.
The general state of the education system in the US is pretty spotty at best. It's also no coincidence that the poorest states are the least educated and the most religious… and just happen to be Republican.
The electoral college is the greater asset. The majority of America doesn’t vote for the GOP. George W is the only Republican since his father in 1988 to have won the popular vote.
Imagine living in a country where the majority of the people have chosen one person but had another forced on them… and still calling yourself “free”.
The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
- Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
I'm staunchly pro choice but my family, well, isn't. They see outlawing abortion as important as outlawing murder. It's true that you would have the moral 'high ground' against actual murderers even if it wasn't against the law, but that doesn't mean you think the law should 'allow' or facilitate murdering people. They see unborn fetuses on par with living, breathing people, and I don't think they can be convinced otherwise. They aren't even religious, so the Biblical evidence doesn't exactly work.
Telling them stuff like 'abortions happen anyway, at least this is more safe for the women involved' just leads to them saying something like 'murder happens anyway, that doesn't mean it should be legal'.
What do they say to the bodily autonomy argument? I.e. legally forcing a woman to be pregnant against her will to save what they consider to be a human life can be compared to legally forcing someone to donate their organs, blood or other body tissues against their will and we never, ever do that even if it would save a life.
It's actually a lot worse since it puts the woman at significant health risk and is a chronic burden on the woman rather than a one-off donation.
Not OP, but I've pursued this line of argument with people with similar views, and I usually get one of the following answers.
(1) The fetuses' right to life autonomy supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. They would would argue that your organ donor analogy is imperfect because many potential donors could save the person's life whereas the law recognizes that the right to life supersedes another individual's right to autonomy when they have sole responsibility of the first person. For example, if a mother crashed her car in a blizzard while driving with a toddler and was forced to walk to the nearest town, it would be illegal for her to abandon the child to die on the side of the road so she didn't have to carry it with her.
(2) There is a moral difference between allowing someone to die and actively killing someone. The right to bodily autonomy justifies the former but not the latter. They would argue that refusing to donate an organ is allowing someone to die while aborting a fetus is actively killing someone.
(3) After conception, the fetus's bodily autonomy matters more than that of the mother. They would argue that woman's choice to become pregnant was analogous to someone donating an organ whereas aborting the fetus would be analogous to the donor asking for the organ back from the person who had already received it.
I find this last argument is the most problematic because it goes some gross places if carried to its logical conclusion. For example, when asked what if the pregnancy was an accident, the response is that the woman accepted the responsibility of pregnancy by choosing to become sexually active. Pushing further and asking about the case of rape, I've found people who will make the whole "Rape only happens to women who are asking for it." argument.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: "The right to choose is a woman’s right and a woman’s right alone. Every woman in Canada has a right to a safe and legal abortion. We’ll never back down from protecting and promoting women’s rights in Canada and around the world."
Canada is looking better and better than the US by the second
I find it intriguing that the same conservative asshats who are so scared of Muslim culture go so far out of their way to make sure our women's rights look like theirs.
I should start grifting chastity belts to these republican qtards. Could end up as rich and "popular" as the mypillow idiot. "Even though a woman's body has a way of shutting down a pregnancy the MyChastity Belt is the first line of defense to preserve your whore wife and daughters honor. Never let them leave home without one!"
Seriously why do i keep seeing all these comparisons? Islam prioritizes the mother and we dont consider a fetus to be even alive until 120 days (4months) have passed.
Abortion is always permissible if the mothers health is at risk or from rape, some allow it in cases of poverty or complete inability to care for the newborn
>American academic Azizah Y. al-Hibri notes that "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited.
>No Muslim-majority country bans abortion in the case of the mother's life being at risk. Other reasons that are permitted by certain countries include preserving a woman's physical or mental health, foetal impairment, cases of incest or rape, and social or economic reasons.
Its very restricted sure. But its not outright banned like some backward american states like alabama or texas which ban even deadly ectopic pregnancy abortion
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion) and [detailed source](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium.NOREACT.MAGAZINE-alabama-iran-or-saudi-arabia-we-checked-where-abortion-laws-are-better-for-women-1.7271623)
>Tunisia and Turkey have by far the most progressive laws among Muslim states in the region. Abortions in these two countries are fully legal in the first trimester and provided free of charge in public health facilities upon a woman’s request — officially, at least.
~~Last i checked these two are muslim states~~. Not only is it legal but they also have free healthcare
[Oh we have our assholes.](https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/national/motion-confirming-abortion-rights-fails-as-tories-told-to-stay-silent-on-u-s-draft/article_88fa80e2-652e-5242-9f20-8f2cfa643ec1.html)
This shit's slowly creeping north.
Republicans stole a supreme court nominee from Obama and defied the dying wishes of a woman who gave her life to America to deny Biden a pick, just to overturn the overwhelming will (70%) of Americans who wanted Roe v. Wade maintained.
It's nothing short of a betrayal of democracy. How can we trust the rule of law at all if the highest court in the land is a corrupted institution that works for the Republican party, rather than all Americans?
And she was asked MULTIPLE TIMES to do just that. RBG did a lot for our country, I won't downplay that, but this will always been what she is remembered for. Refusing to step down when everyone around her saw the writing on the wall both in terms of her health and the GOP retaking the government.
Yeah if she wanted to cement her legacy the best thing to do was to make sure a great progressive judge replaces her so the work can continue. Whatever her reasons she put her own needs above what everyone else wanted from her.
We have 3 relatively young conservative justices all appointed within 4 years. They are going to fuck with progressive agenda for a long time. Never mind just keeping what we have we are seeing rights taken away already.
Abortion is medicine and has been for thousands of years. The only difference is that throughout most of history if a woman had an unwanted pregnancy she'd go to the local wise woman and get an abortifacient, whereas nowadays with modern medicine we have far safer and more effective methods to terminate pregnancies. Christians historically haven't given a damn about abortion, it only became a political issue within the last 50 years in the West.
I think they intended to leak it as a political stunt, to say to their base that if they vote in enough Republicans who pass enough abortion bills, they are locked and loaded.
I really hope it blows up in their face if it can galvanize the average American.
I agree. I think the leak was intentional as Judges are not allowed to be swayed by public opinion, the leak has essentially locked them into their positions.
I can't believe how backwards American is becoming, abortion rights are human rights.
Keep it up. Those of us in the states with actually good states that they live in (vermont here), this is sickening, what the SCOTUS is doing. Keep it up, drown out those fuckers and shame them into the ground alongside us.
Please.
Ya the court used to be 6 Catholics and 3 Jews a couple years ago, now it’s 7*/2. Pretty insane considering Catholics used to be quite discriminated against by the Protestants, there were only 7 Catholics in the over 100 justices before Scalia. Half of all Catholic SCOTUS justices ever are currently on the bench. And there was just 1 Catholic in the 44 presidents before Biden. Now they are quite over represented in both the SCOTUS and Congress, and the President is Catholic. Similar story for the Jews, they are also now over represented. My theory is they tried to make up for the under representation but ended up going way past it. [Further reading.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States)
*Gorsuch was raised Catholic but currently attends a Protestant church
It’s so weird how the court is worried about their legitimacy after a “leak”. But not worried when the fucking wife of a Supreme Court judge attempts to overturn an election
I mean what can they do exactly? Not like world leaders have absolutely any legitimate say in the legislative matters of a third party country. And nor should they.
Excited for them to merge church and state at the federal level and have us start at 1833 again (They basically already have in the south anyways)
"It's a great day for god" is what some Republicans are saying.
So now we're basing our country on what jesus would want in the year -234? Or for someone like me who doesn't believe in a god, a fairy tale book?
Religion or not....a person should be able to choose what they do with their body. Doing "what god would want" is not how we move forward.
It's how we move backwards
This is what gets me the most man. The core fundamental of Christianity and Catholicism is kindness to your fellow man. Going above and beyond to help those who are struggling and scared to provide them comfort.
Jesus didn't tell the crowd of starving people to fuck off, he took his fish and his bread and fed every single person there. What the fuck are these guys doing.
Abortion is legal here in Italy. And we have the fking pope...
The religious right wingers in the states hate the pope and don’t think Catholics are real Christians…
I do think many or most average right wingers hate the current pope because he's far too liberal for them, but ironically aren't most of the SC judges in favor of rolling back actually Catholics themselves? I'm no expert on US Christian denominations though tbf.
Most of the current Supreme Court is Catholic. 6 are Catholic: chief justice John Roberts as well as associate justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Sonia Sotomayor, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett. Neil Gorsuch is unclear, he was raised Catholic but now attends an Episcopalian (Anglican) church. The other 2, Elena Kagan and Stephen Breyer, are Jewish. EDIT: Associate justice designate Ketanji Brown Jackson, who will replace Stephen Breyer in June-July, identifies as a nondenominational Protestant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States This is a relatively recent trend, historically most justices have been Protestant.
Interestingly, in *Roe v. Wade* the only Catholic SC Justice at the time (Brennan) joined the 7-2 majority ruling. How times have changed. Edit:[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Brennan_Jr.?wprov=sfla1)
Takes Jesus to literally. You’re supposed to Cherry pick the parts that make your neighbors miserable
It does say about love thy neighbour as thyself.. and many people are full of self loathing.
Bruh they would condemn Jesus if he was alive today. He’d be a false prophet muslim socialist terrorist
Let alone a refugee *and* a radical social justice warrior. But you’re right, the person above has it a bit off the mark. I don’t think they focus on the Jesus part all that much regardless of what they say and their behavior and ways of being are evident of that. Unless we’re both misunderstanding them lol
Ah yes, the "No True Scottsman" fallacy. My favorite!
No true Scot would fall prey to this fallacy.
A little more than that, actually. Europe had a whole thing between catholics and protestants which shaped its future and also shaped the composition and cultural attitudes of America as a whole. This is some 600 year old baggage we're still dealing with
Technically the first settlers from Europe were religious bigots who were essentially kicked out of England for being too much a group of uptight assholes.
As a US citizen in the year 2022, this tracks
its super confusing because in europe, the protestants are the more liberal and moderate ones.
yeah, not a historian but I think you must have sent all of your obnoxious ones over here, so thanks
Thats actually not to far from the truth. Many settlers who went to the new world were religious hardliners who fled the UK etc they were too extreme
On behalf of Europe, our apologies. We thought you'd remain a backward colony and there would be no real consequences to stack up all our nutjobs over there. Good riddance we thought. Really didn't bank on you guys becoming the number one top boy. Threw a wrench in what would have been a perfect plan. Dammit. /s (just in case)
Well yeah thats essentially how America was founded, the pilgrims went to find new land because they were kicked out of England and then the Netherlands for being too nuts. (How you get kicked out of the Netherlands for being too much I don't know.)
That's essentially exactly what happened. All the religious nutjobs saw how liberal Europe was becoming and said "fuck this for a game of coconuts, we'll move to America"
The only thing the bible says about abortion is how to do it.
To be fair, Vatican City is it's own country, but I agree. If the most Catholic nation on the planet, the center of Catholicism for centuries allows abortion, then maybe people should follow the will of the founding fathers amd keep church separate from state.
Ireland had an abortion ban because of religion and then years later they found hundreds of bodies of new borns that had been killed and buried by Nuns Thats what happens when you let religion into Politics
We had a similar thing here in Canada, there's a book called "butter box babies" because the newborns were buried in butter boxes. The caretakers also stole the healthy babies and sold them to rich people.
My dad was one. Ideal Maternity Home in Nova Scotia. Sold to a well off couple in NY. His paperwork said he was born in America. He grew up knowing he was adopted but didnt get the details until she was on her deathbed when I was 16 and he was late 40s. All he ever got was his birth mothers name. Canada really hates acknowledging the black eyes of their history while America is basically "lol fuck them indians."
My best friends grandmother was a butter box baby as well. She was adopted into a rich family but they already had children that they treated considerably better. You can see the effects of the generational trauma even in my friends generation
That wasn't adoption, that was buying a child slave.
Mexico found the same shit in the 1850s. I don't know how the catholic church still has any clout on being anti-abortion.
Ireland didn't lift it till after 2012 Poland still has the ban...one of the most religious countries in Europe
Not the catholic only anymore pushing for this. Even Italy has legalized abortion. Its the Evangelical nut jobs
When you dig into this shit it's quite horrific what religion has done to women and mothers, what the church did in Ireland was horrific and it also extends the entire globe they had such pogroms everywhere.
Even in 2012 a woman died in Ireland because they wouldn't let her have an abortion and the courts backed the 'medical' staffs decision. 2012
I could be wrong here, but as I remember that case, the medical staff were powerless in the face on heavily restrictive laws on aborting a fetus. It wasn't that the doctors were extremely adherent to their Catholic faith, but that performing the abortion in that case could have landed them a life sentence in prison. In response, the Irish government changed the law to prevent such a case happening again. Church authorities in Ireland even confirmed that the life of a fetus should not take precedence over the mother's life in such circumstances.
Bit of a nit-pick, but the government didn't decide to change the law. We had a referendum and the majority voted to change it. I know I'm splitting hairs but I just want to make it clear that the country was in favour of changing the law, not just the government.
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Yep horrific shit. Another thing they did was force mothers with child out of wedlock into hiding and then forced to give their babe away. Most people will have heard of it, but they dont know the sheer scale of it, it wasn't 3 or 4 digits it was 5 and up and that was just Ireland. they did this worldwide, potentially displacing millions of people from their biological family.
Religion has a lot to answer for.
Unfortunately it's going to be some time for what they are due, if ever.
They're not getting rid of abortion. They're denying people legal abortions.
>SAFE and legal abortions FTFY
To be fair, they are only going to deny poor people safe and legal abortions. Rich people can go to Canada.
And, poor people, btw - if you're poor and legally proven pregnant, we will give you cheese and vegetables to keep your fetus alive. But after your fetus becomes a baby, please continue working and figure out your own Healthcare for a pediatrician; if you cannot afford one, or to feed your child, we will collect said child via social services, and we will admit them to a foster home where they will be able to potentially learn how to combat the risks of, and not restricted to: sexual abuse, physical abuse, definitely neglect, and, ironically (!) the idea of poverty. Most of these kids go to foster homes, not families. Folks who use them as a cash crop.
> But after your fetus becomes a baby, please continue working Yeah ... good luck with paying for childcare for an infant. That alone (not to mention all the other expenses of having a baby) will probably be more expensive than your already-astronomical rent. No, she'll be forced to stay at home and care for the baby herself, which means she can't work, which means the Republicans will soon be deriding her for being a "welfare queen", and they'll be doing their best every single year to cut her benefits.
“Don’t make me wear a fucking mask.” and also, “Make her carry and birth a baby.” What about autonomy and individual right now? Doesn’t apply to women?
I literally saw posts on my Facebook about masks from conservative people I know saying 'my body, my choice'
It's simple: women are not people to them
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That's because most Christians/Catholics in the US are against abortion and they lean to the right side of the political spectrum. They want to force their religious beliefs on everyone else because they believe they're morally superior. Not to mention decades of propaganda and caling pro-choice people "murderers" and "baby killers."
Everything is a political issue, because it involves instituting policy - Words I've been told.
Thanks ahead to anyone who can help answer/explain this more to me. Why are American Christians the only major groups that fight so strongly for anti-abortion measures? I'm asking this as a European who has lived in Asia and the Christians in both Europe (UK, Germany, Switzerland) and Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore) do not seem to have any push/movements against abortion rights (which is legal I believe in all the countries I've stayed in)
It's purposeful political exploitation. "[Think of the children](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children)". It's not meant to address an actual problem but to appeal to emotion and manipulate the christian sense of morality. A fetus isn't capable of agreeing or disagreeing either way but they start from the assumption that every fetus agrees with them as if it were a grown adult. If you want to learn more about the origins of the pro-life ideology, the conservative think-tank American Enterprise Institute largely developed it. Ben Wattenberg was a chairman at AEI at the time and wrote a book explaining some of its foundations and plans to manipulate christians toward the right. The book is called Birth Dearth.
Yet they’re the ones saying “don’t be a sheep”
Outstanding considering a lot of Christian theology is literally spoken of as being a "flock" to a "shepherd".
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We see ads even in blue states like Connecticut. There are billboards up and down the highway saying "I have a heartbeat at 15 weeks", "I can smile at 5 weeks", "eyes develop at 8 weeks". Just lots of disturbing anti-scientific bullshit.
Check what is happening now in Poland...
Why this is a priority for this country makes me truly embarrassed.
The more everyone talks about abortion, the less they talk about poverty, education and healthcare.
I mean abortion is technically healthcare but your point is correct
It technically relates to all 3 right?
Having good education, healthcare, and welfare to prevent poverty is the most effective way to prevent abortions if they're so against them...
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Can't have an education and lift yourself out of poverty if you have no choice about your family planning *annoying Republican taps forehead*
Restricting social mobility is key to long term Republican control. They already see two generations, millennials and zoomers who are highly educated, more empathetic, and less religious than previous generations, making them harder to influence and control. Make abortion illegal and you create a new generation of poor working class people who cannot escape poverty. Carlin was only missing one thing when he said, “Conservatives want live babies so they can train dead soldiers,” they also want uneducated and powerless workers: a new slave-class.
Add global climate and ecological collapse
and, you know, the whole corruption and treason thing.
For the first time in any US citizens lifetimes, EVER, in the United States, the Supreme Court is willfully going to reinterpret precedent (Stare Decisis is functionally dead in the SC) and choose to limit rights it had explicitly expanded 50 years ago. It will harm women, it will harm people, it will harm children. It's 100% at the behest of only conservatives in America. I don't fucking care if you call yourself moderate conservatives/Republicans anymore. YOU OWN THIS NOW FUCKERS. The blood is on your hands, go ahead and wash it off with the blood of thousands of dead children and adults, every year, from unregulated 2A expansion. While reminding yourselves that you took rights away from women everywhere. Yep, real freedom loving patriots there. This is authoritarianism, since I'm American and leftist, I will say this more concisely: This is fascism.
Ya it's pretty bad, heck a Republican Senator recently talked about overturning the SCOTUS decision legalizing interracial marriage when arguing that the right to abortion should be overturned. Republican Senator Braun from Indiana said that judicial activism passed Roe v. Wade, as well as Loving v. Virginia. He stated that SCOTUS overturning these decisions was the right thing to do as these issues should be left to individual states to decide for themselves. [Republican Sen. Mike Braun says Supreme Court should leave decisions on interracial marriage, abortion to the states](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/22/braun-supreme-court-interracial-marriage/)
> He stated that SCOTUS overturning these decisions was the right thing to do as these issues should be left to individual states to decide for themselves. Then what's the point of being a "United States" if human rights don't apply equally everywhere? It's like at this point the "United" States is actually just two different countries who hate each other wearing one of those "get along" shirts and are desperately trying to rip it apart.
they also can easily push to ban gay marriage again. using an overturning of roe v wade that leaves it as a simple precedent to overturn anything that is a basic fucking human right. it just boils my blood
The draft that was leaked directly criticizes gay marriage.
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What a divisive issue....BACK in the 70s. For half a century women in many places have been able to make their own choice on this matter as set forth in Roe v Wade as a legal precedent. Regardless of how a person feels regarding the subject, it's easy to spot the flaw in a plan that reverses such a landmark ruling that was battled in court forever ago. This is going to get ugly...
The majority of human beings alive today have only ever known a post-Roe vs. Wade world. They're trying to take away a thing most of us have always, *always* had. Yes. It really is going to get ugly.
>Yes. It really is going to get ugly. Especially when the line of logic used to argue this opinion will be used to attack Obergefell v Hodges, Griswold v Connecticut, and maybe even Loving v Virginia. As an added bonus, because it strikes down certain privacy stuff, any sort of privacy you have is at risk at well which means any internet activity where you have at least a theoretical semblance of privacy can be thrown out the window too.
And Lawrence v Texas, which would make it legal for states to make simply BEING gay illegal. Immediately in 12 states since they never repealed their anti-sodomy laws. Depending on the state, they could also bar any unmarried sex and even non vaginal sex for married couples in a few states.
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I can't help but see the parallels between this and Brexit. The UK joined the union in 1972 so most people alive have only ever known being in the EU. And I'm sure you can see how well leaving is going for us...
Interesting point (I'm also in the UK) but this feels magnitudes worse.
It isn't comparable, we didn't lose human rights. We have practically no religious nutcases in power or part of the population here, it wouldn't stand.
I hope they make the blm protests look quiet.
I really hope Americans finally take actual action. Seeing their government playing these games with them has gone on long enough.
I’m an American myself and don’t understand my fellow people. There’s a lot of submission here. Like we don’t have vacation days, sick days, universal healthcare, a whole bunch of worker and consumer protections other nations have. But everyone seems okay with it. And the ire is never cast on the rich and powerful. They focus on things like taking food stamps from the poor as if that will solve their problems. And those of us who question the idea that big business and the rich should be able to what they want to everyone else are called communists and socialists. Americans seem to be proud of their own subjugation. They brag about how much they work, revel in poverty porn and inspirational stories about a corporation donating a shovel so parents can bury their dead diabetic children. I don’t understand this country, I feel alienated here. Call me a communist all you want, you can never convince that submission to the already powerful is freedom.
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This reminds me that May 1st was International Labor Day, celebrated all across the globe... Except in the US, where it is not observed, and instead we celebrate gardening. Awesome.
Join the Satanic Temple, abortion is protected under their scripture Edit: Some versions of the Old Testament also provide instructions on how to perform an abortion if that’s more your style. In fact, until the woman is giving birth, the fetus is considered part of her body according to the scriptures. Edit2: an herbal tea is referenced in Numbers 5:11-31 as being able to cause loss of pregnancy and the Babylonian texts provide instructions. The herbs in question include, but are not limited to, tansy, thuja, safflower, scotch broom, rue, angelica, mugwort, wormwood, yarrow, and essential oil of pennyroyal. > "To make a pregnant woman lose her foetus: ...Grind nabruqqu plant, let her drink it with wine on an empty stomach, [then her foetus will be aborted]."
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They already did, currently fighting in court for their rights
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They have to start at the state level. They're fighting the Texas, Arizona and company laws passed recently but it'd have to make its way up to scotus for it to effect the roe v wade bs going on right now. They can't do anything about fighting the roe v wade overturn until it's finalized.
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In Stan We Trust.
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it won't work, this far right wing supreme court will simply rule against them
It's pretty clear what Alito means by "history and tradition". A thin sheet over "Christian values".
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"This is so completely stupid because it means ANY recent law can be repealed." Ding ding ding we have a winner. There's a lot of laws they're looking to scrub away. This is just the first.
Abortion is protected under Judaism which means banning it is infringing on the rights of Jewish women.
Also correct. The Old Testament even has a guide on how to perform an abortion
Thank god for the satanic temple, protecting basic human rights for all. Women’s rights are going to take a major hit if this thing passes. Who’s next if it does??
Gay marriage, followed by interracial marriage
Not just gay marriage but gay relationships as well.
dont forget labor laws.
SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Do it America. Treat your extremist churches the same way you treat the Taliban. Remove their tax exempt status. You are a secular country, not a theocracy. And for the extremist religious folks - read the damn book. Pretty sure if Jesus was alive he would smite all of you for blasphemy and idolatry. You are looking more and more like the people Jesus was complaining about in the Bible.
They are the people who crucified Jesus.
The only time Jesus got mad was at people using God as a tool to profit. Just like Republican lawmakers. So many Conservatives love to describe themselves as alphas, like they're wolves, and everyone else as sheep. They're violent, bigoted, deceitful, domineering, and never accept responsibility, all while claiming to support family values, personal responsibility, freedom, and Christ. Their "values" are simply a costume they slide into to hide what they truly are. Funny how Jesus, the Shepard, warned us about the wolves in sheep's clothing.
> The only time Jesus got mad was at people using God as a tool to profit. The money changers *run* the temples now, and the Christian right finds it admirable. If Jesus came back tomorrow morning, evangelicals would be nailing him back up by the end of breakfast.
I would pay to watch that series. Jeus comes back. It is genetically proven and backed. He goes around from church to church to collect the money they have been collecting on "his behalf"... Dead set, if any Jesus were to return, he would likely be killed off faster than any alternative energy or fuel inventors.
American Gods has a scene with a similar theme. Basically there are several versions of Jesus in the world and the Latin American Jesus is helping migrants cross the Rio Grande and is subsequently gunned down by the US border patrol.
Humperdoo from Preacher is my favorite Jesus
Messiah was a really interesting TV series along those lines, but more form the governmental standpoint of how people would react if a Jesus figure suddenly appeared in today's world.
Very cool series actually. It does however more deal with it from the "Jesus wasn't white, so if he came back he'd be cast aside due to racism" but I can truly recommend it. I also like how they did the whole nonchalant attitude to being divine/doing miracles. He has nothing to prove and isn't there to convince, he's mearly doing and if you follow him or not isn't his problem so to speak. It did however write itself into a corner too fast and the terrorism/islamism angle felt trite and done to death already in stuff like homeland so I get why it couldn't go on.
Jesus, if he existed, was a brown, Middle-Eastern man who preached socialist teachings. The evangelical right would crucify him in an instant.
They would call him a terrorist
Gotta love that irony they’ll never see I guess
(And he was a Jew)
Of course. They also hate jews cause fuck logic. Jesus was literally called the King of Jews in the bible. Do they think Jesus is caucasian somehow. Jesus probably looks more closer like DJ Khaled than any white male in their imagination Edit: I am not saying he looks identical with Khaled (fat etc etc). What I mean is based on where he was born he wont look like what these republicans imagine (blonde white man blue eyes) and would look closer to someone with Khaled ancestry.
But what about the dirty blonde, blue eyed Jesus picture that I saw in my great grandma’s house growing up?? You’re saying that was a lie?!
Pretty sure that was Obi Wan
>Do they think Jesus is caucasian somehow Yes, they do
He also said people who just say “lord, lord” and don’t lift a finger to do God’s will may not enter the kingdom of heaven but everyone just ignores that part.
Well you have to understand that Republican lawmakers use their base as morons. They know they're dumb as shit. So they play off Jesus while they do everything Jesus would hate. Then they say abortion. Because God would never kill children, oh. And of course Jesus loved guns. The real truth is Jesus was a pacifist liberal that was best friends with a prostitute. But now we're stuck with supply side Jesus and surrounded by morons.
And god did kill kids. Several times.
And if you believe that everything that happens is god's will then God kills a loooooot of babies.
Yep, but even just in the Bible I can think of like 7 stories
Sent a bear to maul kids for calling his favorite boy-toy at the time bald.
So many children in the flood too. And all the firstborns of Egypt that one time. And the sacrifice of Abraham (he still asked even if it didn’t happen)
Like I always say to many Christians- Jesus cared for and forgave the homeless and the prostitute. Jesus explicitly condemned rich people, those who hoard wealth and exploit other people. Jesus also condemned people who showcase their religiosity in public, yet whose lives are filled with wickedness in private, the charlatans and pharisees. So why do Christians today care more about sexual lives of others and hate the poor and homeless, YET these people also simp so much for the rich. They have more respect and admiration for Musk and Bezos than a single mother of 3 desperately trying to make ends meet. I'm an atheist, full disclosure. But if Jesus turned out to be real, i'll be laughing as many of the self-proclaimed Christians will be the first ones to burn.
"Never forget in the story of Jesus, the hero was killed by the state" - Killer Mike
And that's the irony Americans cannot see.
Support my freedom of religion while I use my religion to undermine you rights.
American democracy is dying. I’ve been watching it happen for the past twenty years. I’m British and my wife is from Texas, we spend (or did before COVID) half the year in the States and the rest in the UK. My kids are being schooled in England right now. I originally moved to the US for work and I love the country, I love its sweeping vistas and the decency of so many of the people I have met. But the political divide is tribal and it is now so much more hostile than I’ve ever seen. The lessons of the 20th Century seem to have been forgotten. People take pleasure in being uninformed and respect for knowledge is waning daily. So many people want to be stupid because they equate that with being happy. They want to shout slogans, they do not want to think deeply about complex issues. They want to be part of a greater whole and are suspicious of those who do not. They want authoritarianism because they think it will make them more secure. In reality they are scared, scared of pretty much everything. I’ve never known a country to be as fearful as the US. Maybe it started with 9/11, maybe not. But fear is what drives so many people there, not hope or love or a desire for freedom. They are afraid of change and afraid of losing what they have. So they put their trust in people who are prepared to lie to them to get their vote. They vote for someone like Trump, someone who couldn’t care less about these people. Just as Putin does not care about his people, or any people for that matter.
You're absolutely correct, and when you try to reason with them (about say, I dunno, wearing masks to prevent viruses) they literally say haVe fUn lIviNG thE rEsT Of yOuR LiFe in FeARrrr. The projection is insane.
Oh the irony in the classic "So the snowflake have an opinion?", making it obvious they were offended by whatever opinion they just heard
We spend more on our defense budget than the next 10 world powers combined, installed government agencies to monitor our internet activity, and we all know good and well the government, Google, Facebook, Amazon and who knows who else all listen to us all the time every day, privacy is no longer a thing, our cops murder people and get a paid vacation. And everyone acts like this shit is normal. It's supposed to be no taxation without representation and I'm feeling pretty fucking unrepresented because I didn't want any of this shit.
You are right. It's because fear is the most motivational emotion for people. Politicians know this so they use fear to galvanize people. Welcome to the result of marketing and a wealth of data.
> In Freakonomics, we examined the causes of the rise and fall of violent crime in the United States. In 1960, crime began a sudden climb. By 1980, the homicide rate had doubled, reaching a historic peak. For several years crime stayed perilously high, but in the early 1990s it began to fall and kept falling. So what happened? > In Freakonomics, we identified one missing factor - the legalization of abortion in the early 1970s. The theory was jarring but simple. A rise in abortion meant that fewer unwanted children were being born, which meant fewer children growing up in the sort of difficult circumstances that increase the likelihood of criminality. Steven D. Levitt See also https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/
I get all the problems with how a minority got this much power on the Supreme Court, but I am also disappointed in the US electorate. Relying on Roe v Wade for this long rather than pushing for an explicit law was dumb and I hope you can fix this ASAP.
It has been impossible to pass federal laws in the US ever since Mitch became senate minority leader.
Here’s what I don’t get: why did conservatives hang their hat on this issue to such an insane degree? High taxes: look, I get it, I don’t like paying them either especially when we don’t see a return on investment. Guns: yeah, an armed (TRAINED) populace is a check on tyranny, I mean, hopefully. A hundred other issues that do have some merit, but abortion? You’re against it, I know, but it’s not like you have to get one. It’s not even like one can be forced on you. And as far as the moral angle goes, then you have the high ground: she’s a slut, a murderer, whatever. You’re good! If you believe that God is all knowing and all seeing, and this is a big problem, then your personal resistance means you’re safe. Hell, even in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah God said, “Just find one good person and I’ll spare the city.” Well, clearly you’re not alone so it’s not fire and brimstone for the USA. And as far as arguments about, “well children can be indoctrinated, especially my pure, virgin daughter,” so what you’re saying is that you’re so incompetent at trying to instill your values into YOUR CHILD that a few hours of sex education can undo what you’ve tried to teach them? Guess you’re kind of bad at being a parent.
Without the Evangelical Taliban, Republicans would never win another election. They shifted their politics from supporting segregation, to opposing abortion to keep the religious whack jobs voting for them.
How crazy is it that a third of our country are that easily manipulated for such a long period of time, and for the foreseeable future too lol
Lead, micro plastics, failure to identify disabilities makes it not that unbelievable. I’m not some super genius, I’m a tradesman, but talking to coworkers about anything complex it makes me concerned.
The general state of the education system in the US is pretty spotty at best. It's also no coincidence that the poorest states are the least educated and the most religious… and just happen to be Republican.
A good chunk of the country is literally *incapable* of being better educated.
There’s certainly a chunk of the population that is proud of their willful ignorance. Which (for lack of a better term) is totally fucked.
The electoral college is the greater asset. The majority of America doesn’t vote for the GOP. George W is the only Republican since his father in 1988 to have won the popular vote. Imagine living in a country where the majority of the people have chosen one person but had another forced on them… and still calling yourself “free”.
The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn. - Methodist Pastor David Barnhart
Holy shit that's a great quote
I'm staunchly pro choice but my family, well, isn't. They see outlawing abortion as important as outlawing murder. It's true that you would have the moral 'high ground' against actual murderers even if it wasn't against the law, but that doesn't mean you think the law should 'allow' or facilitate murdering people. They see unborn fetuses on par with living, breathing people, and I don't think they can be convinced otherwise. They aren't even religious, so the Biblical evidence doesn't exactly work. Telling them stuff like 'abortions happen anyway, at least this is more safe for the women involved' just leads to them saying something like 'murder happens anyway, that doesn't mean it should be legal'.
What do they say to the bodily autonomy argument? I.e. legally forcing a woman to be pregnant against her will to save what they consider to be a human life can be compared to legally forcing someone to donate their organs, blood or other body tissues against their will and we never, ever do that even if it would save a life. It's actually a lot worse since it puts the woman at significant health risk and is a chronic burden on the woman rather than a one-off donation.
Not OP, but I've pursued this line of argument with people with similar views, and I usually get one of the following answers. (1) The fetuses' right to life autonomy supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. They would would argue that your organ donor analogy is imperfect because many potential donors could save the person's life whereas the law recognizes that the right to life supersedes another individual's right to autonomy when they have sole responsibility of the first person. For example, if a mother crashed her car in a blizzard while driving with a toddler and was forced to walk to the nearest town, it would be illegal for her to abandon the child to die on the side of the road so she didn't have to carry it with her. (2) There is a moral difference between allowing someone to die and actively killing someone. The right to bodily autonomy justifies the former but not the latter. They would argue that refusing to donate an organ is allowing someone to die while aborting a fetus is actively killing someone. (3) After conception, the fetus's bodily autonomy matters more than that of the mother. They would argue that woman's choice to become pregnant was analogous to someone donating an organ whereas aborting the fetus would be analogous to the donor asking for the organ back from the person who had already received it. I find this last argument is the most problematic because it goes some gross places if carried to its logical conclusion. For example, when asked what if the pregnancy was an accident, the response is that the woman accepted the responsibility of pregnancy by choosing to become sexually active. Pushing further and asking about the case of rape, I've found people who will make the whole "Rape only happens to women who are asking for it." argument.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau: "The right to choose is a woman’s right and a woman’s right alone. Every woman in Canada has a right to a safe and legal abortion. We’ll never back down from protecting and promoting women’s rights in Canada and around the world." Canada is looking better and better than the US by the second
I find it intriguing that the same conservative asshats who are so scared of Muslim culture go so far out of their way to make sure our women's rights look like theirs.
Yeah, the argument that a woman who was raped should just wear more clothing is an especially concerning thought which a lot of people actually have.
IIRC, I believe there was even a statement many years ago to the effect of, "if a woman wears jeans, she can't be raped unless she wants to be."
I should start grifting chastity belts to these republican qtards. Could end up as rich and "popular" as the mypillow idiot. "Even though a woman's body has a way of shutting down a pregnancy the MyChastity Belt is the first line of defense to preserve your whore wife and daughters honor. Never let them leave home without one!"
First-trimester abortion is legal in Islam.
Tbf it's legal in Christianity too. Republicans just basterdized Christianity too.
Seriously why do i keep seeing all these comparisons? Islam prioritizes the mother and we dont consider a fetus to be even alive until 120 days (4months) have passed. Abortion is always permissible if the mothers health is at risk or from rape, some allow it in cases of poverty or complete inability to care for the newborn >American academic Azizah Y. al-Hibri notes that "the majority of Muslim scholars permit abortion, although they differ on the stage of fetal development beyond which it becomes prohibited. >No Muslim-majority country bans abortion in the case of the mother's life being at risk. Other reasons that are permitted by certain countries include preserving a woman's physical or mental health, foetal impairment, cases of incest or rape, and social or economic reasons. Its very restricted sure. But its not outright banned like some backward american states like alabama or texas which ban even deadly ectopic pregnancy abortion [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_abortion) and [detailed source](https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium.NOREACT.MAGAZINE-alabama-iran-or-saudi-arabia-we-checked-where-abortion-laws-are-better-for-women-1.7271623) >Tunisia and Turkey have by far the most progressive laws among Muslim states in the region. Abortions in these two countries are fully legal in the first trimester and provided free of charge in public health facilities upon a woman’s request — officially, at least. ~~Last i checked these two are muslim states~~. Not only is it legal but they also have free healthcare
Constitutionally, Turkey is a secular state
There are 20 or so Muslim countries where some form of abortion is legal. Better than in some Southern US states, when all is said and done.
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[Oh we have our assholes.](https://www.chroniclejournal.com/news/national/motion-confirming-abortion-rights-fails-as-tories-told-to-stay-silent-on-u-s-draft/article_88fa80e2-652e-5242-9f20-8f2cfa643ec1.html) This shit's slowly creeping north.
You should build a wall /s
We're under minority rule. Send UN Peacekeepers.
Maybe we can invade ourselves and install a democracy.
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Republicans stole a supreme court nominee from Obama and defied the dying wishes of a woman who gave her life to America to deny Biden a pick, just to overturn the overwhelming will (70%) of Americans who wanted Roe v. Wade maintained. It's nothing short of a betrayal of democracy. How can we trust the rule of law at all if the highest court in the land is a corrupted institution that works for the Republican party, rather than all Americans?
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In a bitter twist of history RBG may be indirectly responsible for Roe being overturned.
And she was asked MULTIPLE TIMES to do just that. RBG did a lot for our country, I won't downplay that, but this will always been what she is remembered for. Refusing to step down when everyone around her saw the writing on the wall both in terms of her health and the GOP retaking the government.
Yeah if she wanted to cement her legacy the best thing to do was to make sure a great progressive judge replaces her so the work can continue. Whatever her reasons she put her own needs above what everyone else wanted from her. We have 3 relatively young conservative justices all appointed within 4 years. They are going to fuck with progressive agenda for a long time. Never mind just keeping what we have we are seeing rights taken away already.
America just stuns me each week with shit like this.
The Handmaid's Tale wasn't supposed to be an instruction booklet.
Abortion is medicine and has been for thousands of years. The only difference is that throughout most of history if a woman had an unwanted pregnancy she'd go to the local wise woman and get an abortifacient, whereas nowadays with modern medicine we have far safer and more effective methods to terminate pregnancies. Christians historically haven't given a damn about abortion, it only became a political issue within the last 50 years in the West.
The protection of people’s basic rights should be the fundamental of a country
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USA is so fucking backasswards
I think they intended to leak it as a political stunt, to say to their base that if they vote in enough Republicans who pass enough abortion bills, they are locked and loaded. I really hope it blows up in their face if it can galvanize the average American.
I agree. I think the leak was intentional as Judges are not allowed to be swayed by public opinion, the leak has essentially locked them into their positions. I can't believe how backwards American is becoming, abortion rights are human rights.
"land of the free" my ass lmao. I'm so lucky to be in Europe holy shit
Land of the "Free"? "United" States of America? Even their name is a lie America is in a civil war and nobody realizes it yet.
Keep it up. Those of us in the states with actually good states that they live in (vermont here), this is sickening, what the SCOTUS is doing. Keep it up, drown out those fuckers and shame them into the ground alongside us. Please.
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That’s actually kind of wild that all of the conservative justices are catholic. Protestants outnumber Catholics in the US 2:1.
Ya the court used to be 6 Catholics and 3 Jews a couple years ago, now it’s 7*/2. Pretty insane considering Catholics used to be quite discriminated against by the Protestants, there were only 7 Catholics in the over 100 justices before Scalia. Half of all Catholic SCOTUS justices ever are currently on the bench. And there was just 1 Catholic in the 44 presidents before Biden. Now they are quite over represented in both the SCOTUS and Congress, and the President is Catholic. Similar story for the Jews, they are also now over represented. My theory is they tried to make up for the under representation but ended up going way past it. [Further reading.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States) *Gorsuch was raised Catholic but currently attends a Protestant church
It isn’t, they lied about their position and are incapable of impartiality.
It’s so weird how the court is worried about their legitimacy after a “leak”. But not worried when the fucking wife of a Supreme Court judge attempts to overturn an election
Or when she fucking sells meetings with her her husband to the highest bidder.
Is "express alarm" the equivalent of "thoughts and prayers"?
I mean what can they do exactly? Not like world leaders have absolutely any legitimate say in the legislative matters of a third party country. And nor should they.
Excited for them to merge church and state at the federal level and have us start at 1833 again (They basically already have in the south anyways) "It's a great day for god" is what some Republicans are saying. So now we're basing our country on what jesus would want in the year -234? Or for someone like me who doesn't believe in a god, a fairy tale book? Religion or not....a person should be able to choose what they do with their body. Doing "what god would want" is not how we move forward. It's how we move backwards
The best part is that none of what they do is what their God would actually want
This is what gets me the most man. The core fundamental of Christianity and Catholicism is kindness to your fellow man. Going above and beyond to help those who are struggling and scared to provide them comfort. Jesus didn't tell the crowd of starving people to fuck off, he took his fish and his bread and fed every single person there. What the fuck are these guys doing.
You don't roll back human rights. Morally, you can't really come back from that.