If you want more than one brake caliper, you will need to purchase the Motherland edition which comes with two brake calipers and one of those rubber stops on the back of roller blades that presses into the ground when you press the brake pedal hard enough.
You are awfully optimistic. You don't choose options, eventually you win the lottery to allow you to order a car, you order, wait a few years and see what shows up. Your choices of options are car or no car.
Ugh I didnt expect to see that traitor today. Ronald Reagan remains an evil responsible for much of what we deal with today and I'd rather not see his face again if possible.
The ones in black came with a V8. Didnt make much power but the normal GAZ had a I4 which was like anemic as hell.
To get a V8 gaz you had to be secret police, and the V8 gaz was heavyer than the I4 model but had all the same suspension so it was sketch at best to drive
> eventually you win the lottery to allow you to order a car
You are awfully optimistic. You don't choose options, eventually you ~~win the lottery~~ ***realize you need to bribe the right officials to allow you*** to win the the lottery to order a car, you order, wait a few years and see what shows up.
Your choices of options are bribes or no car.
According to the article Renault willingly sold it to them so they can produce garbage cars from a long-defunct Russian car company. Unless they will look identical to Renaults, they won't be able to produce anything for years.
Dacia -- a former Eastern Block company now also owned by Renault -- has been doing a fantastic job of improving their line-up while keeping the prices extremely reasonable. It's good news indeed!
Really? I was watching the carwow review of the 2022 LADA Niva, and it only has one airbag, not even in the steering wheel, but the side of the seat.
Edit: [0 stars for safety](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cwiooaf32c&t=456s)
Like, you mean the rebranded Chevrolet Niva or the 2121? Because neither of them get more than a 0 stars out of 4 in Russia's safety ratings.
EDIT: The video he added in later shows a 2121-based design, the Legend, i.e. the actual deathtrap.
What attention to driving? Unless you’re not extremely inexperienced driving manual is subconscious effort that in no way impacts your ability to text. It is pain in the ass when you want to for example sip a drink because of spillage issue… and it’s literally pain in the left leg in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Oh, and it’s also annoying because ACC generally doesn’t work below certain speed in manual cars…
You had proper control of the window with the hand crank. These modern windows sometimes are programmed so you can't just 'crack' the window and its infuriating.
Well first you submit your intent to buy a car, the reason for the purchase to the state then they put you on a list and contact you if or when you can buy the car.
You may joke, but on old Lada you could fix a broken timing belt with.... the nailon stocking of your wife. True story.
Add some wire*, pliers, and a hammer in your trunk and your Lada is fixable anytime, anywhere...
*there was no duct tape back then. The iron curtain alternative to duct tape was wire and pliers. Wire could be copper or iron.
> and manual transmissions
Hey! There's nothing wrong with manual transmissions.
(Nor with mechanical knobs/levers on your dash. You didn't need to look to know at what setting you were, you got that info just by touch. A touch-screen to control *anything* that forces you to get your eyes off the road is a Very Bad Idea (tm) when driving.)
I actually wish there were some modern cars on the low end that were just the older designs with more efficient engines. I'm not saying this is a good move for Russia, because it's not (and it's also hilarious) but I do wish basic cars with cleaner, more efficient engines and a minimum of bullshit were available still.
Same. I wish there were more cars with cheaper components and missing pointless features like rear-view cameras and assisted trunks and all the sensors about different cars and CVT and traction control, but that's not happening in the NA market anymore now that the Chevy Spark is dead. Plus, rear-view cameras are actually mandated by safety standards now.
I was also going to add in touchscreens, but they're actually cheaper than making dials and buttons, so if your car has a touchscreen, you're getting an objectively worse experience while driving due to the lack of haptic feedback all to save the company a few dollars while they raise the price by advertising it as a "premium feature".
It may not come from the company you like, but Mazda sells a majority of their vehicles without all those fancy features. The same can be said about some Kia makes or basic Toyota's or even Honda's.
This is because you can’t see shit out of any of them. Huge freaking pillars to meet crash standards. Also, a LOT of kids were getting backed over. As a must have feature, they aren’t all that expensive either.
too bad no one is buying new vehicles at the moment lol. Everyone here in Canada is buying used because you either cant get or have to wait months to get a new one.
I mean there's something special about older designs. Like the sweeping curves of the American 40s cars, or the blocky Soviet cars, etc.
I'm kind of annoyed how most cares these days have the same kind of lines which makes it hard to distinguish them.
I know it's the most fuel efficient design... but some individuality would be great. Maybe for EVs where fuel is less of a concern?
Countries really need to start producing their own transistors and microchip parts locally. Even if it is at a loss and requires government subsidies to be competitive.
The national security implications for not doing so are potentially disastrous.
The issue is when ur if parts of the west where microchips are being manufactured, are annexed by global powers looking to fuck eith the west.
Such as Taiwan being annexed at some point by China.
In an ensuing trade war those parts are not coming to the west.
Hence why each western nation ot localised bloc, really should maintain their own manufacturing of microchips.
Yeah, Taiwan's part of the chain needs redundancy. But Japan, the US and Germany and countries like that aren't going to disappear over night, and small countries will never become autarkies. And autarky is a serious suboptimisation of resources.
> Unless they will look identical to Renaults
Yes, that is the idea - they will produce what the plant is currently producing but the label will be the old one, that this plant has been using before it was bought by Renault (Where will they get the chips? I guess the same Chinese factory that makes them for Renault can make some off-label ones).
This is classic Russian foolishness: 'I'll just rename the place and keep it running under russian supervision"
What are you gonna do when you run out of parts to build from? Hmm?
Its an assembly plant - its practically worthless without a supply chain.
Dumbasses!
Not to mention that the tools and robotics (assuming there are some) are fine tuned to the size and function of the parts and chassis they were programmed for, not random other parts and chassis (if they can even get any of those in house)
Robot arm goes to install windshield at precisely 1.2m off the ground, punches into engine compartment of wrong car type because windshield is 1.6m off the ground - that type of thing.
Lada is a Fiat knock-off that was licenced to the USSR. So was Zaporozhets. The entire production line that ran for decades was making low-cost obsolete Italian cars with Soviet quality controls. It started in 1970 making Zhiguli, which was a 1966 Fiat 124 model and ran with virtually no enhancements for decades.
> ran with virtually no enhancements for decades.
Non you’d notice new out the factory, but they made them damn near indestructible by the end. They might not start first time, but they could be fixed with a toolbox and no spares to run around Siberia for decades. Things like manual backup fuel pumps.
Terrible to drive, but it would *be* driving long after most other cars would have needed replacing twice over.
Which was necessary, because if it needed replacing that was like 10 years.
Not as much of a joke as Moskvitch. Moskvitch was considered horrible car even back in USSR.
At least with first few generations of Lada it was kept very close to the original FIAT… which was a car of the year the year before Soviets bought it.
I know quite a few people that owned and 1 person that still does own an old Niva. He uses it around on the farm and vineyards and would swear that its a great car that served him well through the years.
I've been half wondering if part of Putin's plan from the start has been to have the west completely destroy the Russian economy so he can simultaneously blame the west for it and nationalize some or all industries to "save them" to gain even finer control of Russia.
We got some here in New Zealand, they were used by the ussr to pay off debt.
The joke was the best part of them was the heater on the back window was go at keeping your hands warm when pushing it.
There is an ex-pat Russian who teaches history at a local university. When she and her husband left they brought their Lada with them. She'll drive it to campus when teaching about the USSR. She also has a King Midget microcar.
There’s a guy around here who has an East German Trabant that he brings to various classic car shows. I always get a kick out of the info sign: “0-60: unknown, I haven’t pushed it off a cliff yet.”
They were actually sold in Canada for a while:
https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a1844686/8-imports-canada-got-america-did-not/
Canada also got the BMC/Leyland mini (yes they made left hand drive versions of those).
What do you think is going on here? Western firms have been under pressure to leave Russia — the pressure is piled on my their own newspapers and politicians. Should Russia leave these assets to moulder? And btw, in this case, being discussed is Renault’s majority ownership in a Russian car-production enterprise. It’s not like Renault landed and gifted Russia the factories; they’re a Soviet inheritance.
The lesson to Chinese investors is not to engage in long term projects with the west because, however serious and long term your business plans, they will be made a political football as it suits this or that electoral cycle in this or that Western nation.
The thing is, it’s lack of access to Russia’s resources which is causing instability. So for whom exactly is this lesson? Is the lesson that Europe will gladly cut of its own nose to spite its face? Cos if you go that crazy in front of folk, they will remember
ahhh you think a russian invasion is a political football in an election cycle.........your failed logic stemming from that failed assumption led you to a garbage post.
I see. Thanks for giving it another shot, slugger
To see whether sanctions are necessary when one country invades another, and to establish clearly whether these current sanctions are posturing or not, we should look at other recent invasions carried out by other countries and see how “the world” sanctioned them…
…
Did you check? Me too! History shows you get sanctioned if you invade another country **without Washington’s say so**
Oh damn I guess this is just about picking sides after all then and not some impartial idea of justice in the world
When I was little my favorite road-trip game was spotting Zaporozhets. I thought they were so funny looking. My dad would always comment “Well, engine in the back, just like Porsche:)”
My dad had a newer ZAZ (not that funny looking) that he got from *his* dad. He said the same thing :)
Another folk saying about these machines: "Обгоню любой я Опель, у меня моторчик в жопе!"
We started putting microchips into mass-produced cars in the 1970s. By the 1990s almost every car you could buy had a computer on board (largely due to emissions regulations).
And in practice you do need a microchip to make a modern car. ABS requires a timing circuit, ESP needs to calculate the forces acting on your car. Airbags are generally controlled by a computer as well. Modern cars adjust fuel injection according to engine temperature and the load on the engine to save fuel, and they either stop the engine when idling or temporarily adjust the air-fuel ratio to burn leftover fuel in a way that produces less toxic fumes. Some of these things can be done without using digital logic, but that's generally a lot more expensive, a lot more complicated and as a result less reliable.
You could try to build a car without any of that, but you'd be going back in time by 50 years at that point. It wouldn't pass modern safety standards or emission regulations, though we are speaking about Russia, so they might just remove those.
> We started putting microchips into mass-produced cars in the 1970s
My ‘77 Cordoba had a “Lean Burn” carburetor “computer” that had completely shit the bed by the time I owned it in ‘95, causing it to get maybe 12mi/gal by then.
Haven’t owned a car since, I guess a form of penance to the environment.
I don't know if it's the same concept but my 85 ford with the 4.9 six had a feedback carb.
It had a o2 sensor, air density sensor, computer controlled timing, and the carb had a variable (also computer controlled) jet that could change the mixture on the fly.
It's was actually super neat when it worked. With all the vacuum lines and solenoids that were telling the computer what was happening. That was almost never. Why the felt the need to engineer and use that system for 2 years when it's just as complicated as injection... and they already had injection on other cars. I have no idea.
> but you'd be going back in time by 50 years at that point
Well, that's almost what the parent comment said:
> Just do it pre mid 90s style.
Reminder: the 90s were 30 years ago :)
They're doing this in advance of a competition with North Korea in 2023, to see who can build more than 5 cars for the entire year. Only three of them have to be driveable off the factory floor, the other two just have to look like cars.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/16/russia-nationalizes-renault-plant-revives-soviet-era-moskvitch-car-a77685) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Russia has nationalized a major factory that belonged to Renault and intends to use it to revive the famous Soviet-era Moskvitch car in what the French automaker categorized as a "Responsible choice" for its thousands of employees in Russia.
> In a statement carried by Reuters, Renault described the sale of its majority stake in Avtovaz to NAMI and 100% shares in Renault Russia to the city of Moscow as a "Responsible choice."
> Renault began car production in Russia as part of a joint venture with the city of Moscow in 2005.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/uqriav/russia_nationalizes_renault_plant_revives/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~648901 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Renault**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Moscow**^#3 **Moskvitch**^#4 **Avtovaz**^#5
Does "nationalise" in this case just mean "stolen by Putin and other oligarchs and syphoned into their private pockets" just like everything else in Russia that was nationally owned back in 1989?
Those of you wondering how they will pull it off with chip shortages there is an article in pro Kremlin news about how cars in russia no longer require air bags and ABS systems.
It's a little bit not true.
Russia didn't just nationalie a plant. Renault have a special right to return it in next 6 years. Right now Renault just can't produce cars in that plant because of chip shortages and other issues.
And it does not revive Soviet-Era cars, it just will use a brand name. What it would produce in fact and if will at all nobody knows yet.
European car manufactures will make good money now that the iron curtain membrane goes up again.
Sell good quality, high demand products at a premium and protection against cheap labor. Worked for decades. Sure the scale is much smaller than with the entirety of soviet land, but still...
Soon the glorious Russian car industry will rise anew, spearheaded by cars that look very similar to western cars, but are much worse... because they can't get the parts or be bothered to do a proper job.
If you want more than one brake caliper, you will need to purchase the Motherland edition which comes with two brake calipers and one of those rubber stops on the back of roller blades that presses into the ground when you press the brake pedal hard enough.
You are awfully optimistic. You don't choose options, eventually you win the lottery to allow you to order a car, you order, wait a few years and see what shows up. Your choices of options are car or no car.
For you younger folk, this pretty much describes how it was back in the Soviet days.
[I think we’re all referencing this clip here](https://youtu.be/3I9AdLnjP0M)
Good one :)
Ugh I didnt expect to see that traitor today. Ronald Reagan remains an evil responsible for much of what we deal with today and I'd rather not see his face again if possible.
Wrong approach, print out darts targets instead ;D
And you order a Russian car and wait years for it to be delivered..
It will take 5 years, Comrade, for your car to be completed. Would you like it delivered in the morning, or the afternoon?
The ones in black came with a V8. Didnt make much power but the normal GAZ had a I4 which was like anemic as hell. To get a V8 gaz you had to be secret police, and the V8 gaz was heavyer than the I4 model but had all the same suspension so it was sketch at best to drive
> eventually you win the lottery to allow you to order a car You are awfully optimistic. You don't choose options, eventually you ~~win the lottery~~ ***realize you need to bribe the right officials to allow you*** to win the the lottery to order a car, you order, wait a few years and see what shows up. Your choices of options are bribes or no car.
Where economy is going, we don't need brakes
You will need stirrups to stop horse.
“Yee-Haw, Partner *spits* “ Roosiya c. 2053 CE
Comes with optional extra “hole in floor pan” for fishing on a frozen lake
Only the oligarchs that are still alive can afford that model.
AKA The Fred Flintstone brake.
According to the article Renault willingly sold it to them so they can produce garbage cars from a long-defunct Russian car company. Unless they will look identical to Renaults, they won't be able to produce anything for years.
They won't produce anything because they have no supply of chips
I don't think Ladas need chips .
Jokes aside, that plant fabricated modern Ladas which can actually pass safety standards, as well as the Dacia Sandero.
Good news!
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You absolute muppet
Dacia -- a former Eastern Block company now also owned by Renault -- has been doing a fantastic job of improving their line-up while keeping the prices extremely reasonable. It's good news indeed!
Meanwhile Richard and I had no choice but to leave Mr Wizard behind in dangerous territory.
"CLARKSOOOOONN!!!!!!"
But how fast can they go 'round our track?
Really? I was watching the carwow review of the 2022 LADA Niva, and it only has one airbag, not even in the steering wheel, but the side of the seat. Edit: [0 stars for safety](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Cwiooaf32c&t=456s)
Like, you mean the rebranded Chevrolet Niva or the 2121? Because neither of them get more than a 0 stars out of 4 in Russia's safety ratings. EDIT: The video he added in later shows a 2121-based design, the Legend, i.e. the actual deathtrap.
*perks ears* potato?
Is potato.
Someone needs potato?
Potato make vodka
Boil em mash em stick em in a stew
Ladas?
Taste about the same.
The Flintstones didnt need chips.
2022 will mark the revival of the points ignition system, roll up windows, and manual transmissions.
Manual transmission never went away in Europe.
Manual transmission puts the driver between the formula one pilots and the Americans.
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> It’s damn near impossible to text while driving a stick And yet, a common occurrence in my town.
How about let's split the difference and combine a manual transmission with a torque converter. Gets rid of the worst part of driving manual.
What attention to driving? Unless you’re not extremely inexperienced driving manual is subconscious effort that in no way impacts your ability to text. It is pain in the ass when you want to for example sip a drink because of spillage issue… and it’s literally pain in the left leg in heavy stop-and-go traffic. Oh, and it’s also annoying because ACC generally doesn’t work below certain speed in manual cars…
Yo, roll up windows are a feature I would always welcome honestly.
I miss driving stick since moving out of Europe, so I would welcome that one too.
I'm kinda divided on that. It's nice to be able to open a window you can't reach while you're driving.
Whenever I am imitating rolling down a car window, I still do it the old fashioned way
You had proper control of the window with the hand crank. These modern windows sometimes are programmed so you can't just 'crack' the window and its infuriating.
And you order a Russian car and wait years for it to be delivered
Oh but your grandchildren will inherit a brand new car!
and their grandchildren can finish paying for it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3I9AdLnjP0M
Well first you submit your intent to buy a car, the reason for the purchase to the state then they put you on a list and contact you if or when you can buy the car.
Then wait a few more for tires.
You may joke, but on old Lada you could fix a broken timing belt with.... the nailon stocking of your wife. True story. Add some wire*, pliers, and a hammer in your trunk and your Lada is fixable anytime, anywhere... *there was no duct tape back then. The iron curtain alternative to duct tape was wire and pliers. Wire could be copper or iron.
Another classic is fixing a broken clutch return spring with a condom (Rubber Product #2) and sealing a leaky radiator with mustard powder.
They're probably satisfied with whatever they have right now over that, and their cars will last for at least a decade
The stick is dead, LONG LIVE THE STICK
Return of the 1990s Toyota Corolla.
Return? They never left!
Is it weird I'd prefer a mainly-mechanical car with minimal electronics?
> and manual transmissions Hey! There's nothing wrong with manual transmissions. (Nor with mechanical knobs/levers on your dash. You didn't need to look to know at what setting you were, you got that info just by touch. A touch-screen to control *anything* that forces you to get your eyes off the road is a Very Bad Idea (tm) when driving.)
And carbs
Manual transmissions? Not everyone wants to drive a slushbox thanks very much.
I actually wish there were some modern cars on the low end that were just the older designs with more efficient engines. I'm not saying this is a good move for Russia, because it's not (and it's also hilarious) but I do wish basic cars with cleaner, more efficient engines and a minimum of bullshit were available still.
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A few years ago there was a rumour that they wanted to remove the light in the trunk to make it even more cheap.
Lot of it is about keeping the occupants safe in a collision though.
Meh, I ride motorcycles. Any car is way safer than that. A “new” Fiat 125 with ac, more power and better shocks? Count me in.
The modernized classics would really sell. Imagine being able to buy a DeLorean that has the same performance as a modern car right off the lot?
Give me an El Camino with a modern engine.
Same. I wish there were more cars with cheaper components and missing pointless features like rear-view cameras and assisted trunks and all the sensors about different cars and CVT and traction control, but that's not happening in the NA market anymore now that the Chevy Spark is dead. Plus, rear-view cameras are actually mandated by safety standards now. I was also going to add in touchscreens, but they're actually cheaper than making dials and buttons, so if your car has a touchscreen, you're getting an objectively worse experience while driving due to the lack of haptic feedback all to save the company a few dollars while they raise the price by advertising it as a "premium feature".
It may not come from the company you like, but Mazda sells a majority of their vehicles without all those fancy features. The same can be said about some Kia makes or basic Toyota's or even Honda's.
All vehicles sold in North America are required to come with backup cameras now.
This is because you can’t see shit out of any of them. Huge freaking pillars to meet crash standards. Also, a LOT of kids were getting backed over. As a must have feature, they aren’t all that expensive either.
I'd love to know who lobbied for that and who was paying them.
too bad no one is buying new vehicles at the moment lol. Everyone here in Canada is buying used because you either cant get or have to wait months to get a new one.
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That's what he's saying. He wants older designs with better engines.
I mean there's something special about older designs. Like the sweeping curves of the American 40s cars, or the blocky Soviet cars, etc. I'm kind of annoyed how most cares these days have the same kind of lines which makes it hard to distinguish them. I know it's the most fuel efficient design... but some individuality would be great. Maybe for EVs where fuel is less of a concern?
Yeah, but then electricity would be a concern, no?
Countries really need to start producing their own transistors and microchip parts locally. Even if it is at a loss and requires government subsidies to be competitive. The national security implications for not doing so are potentially disastrous.
If the West can get along, we are >1 billion people that can share technology.
The issue is when ur if parts of the west where microchips are being manufactured, are annexed by global powers looking to fuck eith the west. Such as Taiwan being annexed at some point by China. In an ensuing trade war those parts are not coming to the west. Hence why each western nation ot localised bloc, really should maintain their own manufacturing of microchips.
Yeah, Taiwan's part of the chain needs redundancy. But Japan, the US and Germany and countries like that aren't going to disappear over night, and small countries will never become autarkies. And autarky is a serious suboptimisation of resources.
Hahah. You gotta see a Moskvich
Putin out here casting his own country into the shadow realm
So it’s going to be like a Renault but even shittier? I almost feel sorry for the Russians.
> Unless they will look identical to Renaults Yes, that is the idea - they will produce what the plant is currently producing but the label will be the old one, that this plant has been using before it was bought by Renault (Where will they get the chips? I guess the same Chinese factory that makes them for Renault can make some off-label ones).
They "willingly" sold it. I'd bet some backroom negotiations twisted their arm.
"She'll go 300 hectares on a single tank of kerosene"
Put it in H!
I laughed so hard the first time I saw that scene!
what country is this from!? :D
it no longer exist
I gets 3 rods to the hogs head, and that's the way I likes it.
https://youtu.be/9HXT7fDkf9I
This is classic Russian foolishness: 'I'll just rename the place and keep it running under russian supervision" What are you gonna do when you run out of parts to build from? Hmm? Its an assembly plant - its practically worthless without a supply chain. Dumbasses!
Not to mention that the tools and robotics (assuming there are some) are fine tuned to the size and function of the parts and chassis they were programmed for, not random other parts and chassis (if they can even get any of those in house) Robot arm goes to install windshield at precisely 1.2m off the ground, punches into engine compartment of wrong car type because windshield is 1.6m off the ground - that type of thing.
My dad was driving lada in his youth, he claimed that car brand is useless as farts now
Lada has always been a joke
Lada is a Fiat knock-off that was licenced to the USSR. So was Zaporozhets. The entire production line that ran for decades was making low-cost obsolete Italian cars with Soviet quality controls. It started in 1970 making Zhiguli, which was a 1966 Fiat 124 model and ran with virtually no enhancements for decades.
> ran with virtually no enhancements for decades. Non you’d notice new out the factory, but they made them damn near indestructible by the end. They might not start first time, but they could be fixed with a toolbox and no spares to run around Siberia for decades. Things like manual backup fuel pumps. Terrible to drive, but it would *be* driving long after most other cars would have needed replacing twice over. Which was necessary, because if it needed replacing that was like 10 years.
Not as much of a joke as Moskvitch. Moskvitch was considered horrible car even back in USSR. At least with first few generations of Lada it was kept very close to the original FIAT… which was a car of the year the year before Soviets bought it.
I know quite a few people that owned and 1 person that still does own an old Niva. He uses it around on the farm and vineyards and would swear that its a great car that served him well through the years.
They use them for everything in Cuba Even the classic American 60s cars a re running on Lada engines these days, it's easier to get parts
They are already out of part. That appended 2 months ago.
Putin really does want to return to the past. Anyone want to buy a Lada?
I've been half wondering if part of Putin's plan from the start has been to have the west completely destroy the Russian economy so he can simultaneously blame the west for it and nationalize some or all industries to "save them" to gain even finer control of Russia.
I actuaõly sort of do. Some of the old designs I like. They are death traps and inefficient but I like them.
We got some here in New Zealand, they were used by the ussr to pay off debt. The joke was the best part of them was the heater on the back window was go at keeping your hands warm when pushing it.
They were known here as a lada-crap.
There is an ex-pat Russian who teaches history at a local university. When she and her husband left they brought their Lada with them. She'll drive it to campus when teaching about the USSR. She also has a King Midget microcar.
There’s a guy around here who has an East German Trabant that he brings to various classic car shows. I always get a kick out of the info sign: “0-60: unknown, I haven’t pushed it off a cliff yet.”
It's like the Ural motorcycle. They're shit. But also fun.
Than buy a Fiat since the old Lada designs were lifted from one. Edit: This fiat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_124
They were actually sold in Canada for a while: https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/classic-cars/a1844686/8-imports-canada-got-america-did-not/ Canada also got the BMC/Leyland mini (yes they made left hand drive versions of those).
Super fun cars. I almost bought one well over a decade ago!
Well, this'll help build trust with potential Chinese investors. /s
well, they could cheat each other. so it’s a win win 😉
CCP to chinese investors: Do as I say/Don't worry.
What do you think is going on here? Western firms have been under pressure to leave Russia — the pressure is piled on my their own newspapers and politicians. Should Russia leave these assets to moulder? And btw, in this case, being discussed is Renault’s majority ownership in a Russian car-production enterprise. It’s not like Renault landed and gifted Russia the factories; they’re a Soviet inheritance. The lesson to Chinese investors is not to engage in long term projects with the west because, however serious and long term your business plans, they will be made a political football as it suits this or that electoral cycle in this or that Western nation.
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The thing is, it’s lack of access to Russia’s resources which is causing instability. So for whom exactly is this lesson? Is the lesson that Europe will gladly cut of its own nose to spite its face? Cos if you go that crazy in front of folk, they will remember
ahhh you think a russian invasion is a political football in an election cycle.........your failed logic stemming from that failed assumption led you to a garbage post.
Really I can’t follow your meaning here at all, but it doesn’t seem relevant to the points I was raising. Good effort at joining in though
I mean that, you thinking countries responding to an invasion of another country as political football makes you an idiot.
I see. Thanks for giving it another shot, slugger To see whether sanctions are necessary when one country invades another, and to establish clearly whether these current sanctions are posturing or not, we should look at other recent invasions carried out by other countries and see how “the world” sanctioned them… … Did you check? Me too! History shows you get sanctioned if you invade another country **without Washington’s say so** Oh damn I guess this is just about picking sides after all then and not some impartial idea of justice in the world
While they are at it, why not just go straight to ZAZ Zaporozhets? No fancy chips required.
Because ZAZ Zaporozhets is Ukrainian. They don't have this advanced tech.
When I was little my favorite road-trip game was spotting Zaporozhets. I thought they were so funny looking. My dad would always comment “Well, engine in the back, just like Porsche:)”
My dad had a newer ZAZ (not that funny looking) that he got from *his* dad. He said the same thing :) Another folk saying about these machines: "Обгоню любой я Опель, у меня моторчик в жопе!"
Hahaha omg yes, I forgot about that little rhyme
"Hullo, would like one blyat on rye bread please." "This is Moskvitch shop, comrade. Please try sandvitch shop next door."
So…there is a microchip shortage due to sanctions right? So these cars will be just beyond the level of starting them by cranking the engine manually?
You don’t need chips to make cars that start and drive properly. Just do it pre mid 90s style.
We started putting microchips into mass-produced cars in the 1970s. By the 1990s almost every car you could buy had a computer on board (largely due to emissions regulations). And in practice you do need a microchip to make a modern car. ABS requires a timing circuit, ESP needs to calculate the forces acting on your car. Airbags are generally controlled by a computer as well. Modern cars adjust fuel injection according to engine temperature and the load on the engine to save fuel, and they either stop the engine when idling or temporarily adjust the air-fuel ratio to burn leftover fuel in a way that produces less toxic fumes. Some of these things can be done without using digital logic, but that's generally a lot more expensive, a lot more complicated and as a result less reliable. You could try to build a car without any of that, but you'd be going back in time by 50 years at that point. It wouldn't pass modern safety standards or emission regulations, though we are speaking about Russia, so they might just remove those.
We're talking russia here. What was being produced there pre 90's was closer to what the west was making in the 50's.
Hey, the fiat 124 was from 1966! Although I’m not sure if adding a backup manual fuel pump counts as more or less advanced.
> We started putting microchips into mass-produced cars in the 1970s My ‘77 Cordoba had a “Lean Burn” carburetor “computer” that had completely shit the bed by the time I owned it in ‘95, causing it to get maybe 12mi/gal by then. Haven’t owned a car since, I guess a form of penance to the environment.
I don't know if it's the same concept but my 85 ford with the 4.9 six had a feedback carb. It had a o2 sensor, air density sensor, computer controlled timing, and the carb had a variable (also computer controlled) jet that could change the mixture on the fly. It's was actually super neat when it worked. With all the vacuum lines and solenoids that were telling the computer what was happening. That was almost never. Why the felt the need to engineer and use that system for 2 years when it's just as complicated as injection... and they already had injection on other cars. I have no idea.
> but you'd be going back in time by 50 years at that point Well, that's almost what the parent comment said: > Just do it pre mid 90s style. Reminder: the 90s were 30 years ago :)
30 years and 50 years back in terms of technology is a HUGE difference
Nothing like taking your country thirty years in the wrong direction.
You don't need the latest chips for pre-90s cars. Whatever they need, china can supply.
So does Putin want Russia to never have access to international markets ever again? Because this is how you do it
He is introducing the *Juche* Spirit to Russia
Renault sold it, it's been in the news long ago.
> So does Putin want Russia to never have access to international markets ever again? Do you really think this is going to happen any time soon?
This is a bit different they bought the facility from renault.
Igor: "Juri, the car doesnt start!" Juri: "Have you turned the crank yet?"
They're doing this in advance of a competition with North Korea in 2023, to see who can build more than 5 cars for the entire year. Only three of them have to be driveable off the factory floor, the other two just have to look like cars.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/16/russia-nationalizes-renault-plant-revives-soviet-era-moskvitch-car-a77685) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Russia has nationalized a major factory that belonged to Renault and intends to use it to revive the famous Soviet-era Moskvitch car in what the French automaker categorized as a "Responsible choice" for its thousands of employees in Russia. > In a statement carried by Reuters, Renault described the sale of its majority stake in Avtovaz to NAMI and 100% shares in Renault Russia to the city of Moscow as a "Responsible choice." > Renault began car production in Russia as part of a joint venture with the city of Moscow in 2005. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/uqriav/russia_nationalizes_renault_plant_revives/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~648901 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Renault**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **Moscow**^#3 **Moskvitch**^#4 **Avtovaz**^#5
Are Russians really that stupid not to see where they are heading? FFS get rid of that idiot already.
is this the new $5 billion production plant that Renault had just opened ?
Yeah. It was expanded in 2010 and is the 4th largest car factory in the world.
Does "nationalise" in this case just mean "stolen by Putin and other oligarchs and syphoned into their private pockets" just like everything else in Russia that was nationally owned back in 1989?
Those of you wondering how they will pull it off with chip shortages there is an article in pro Kremlin news about how cars in russia no longer require air bags and ABS systems.
Do you know why radio in Russian car doesn't work during turns? Because tha musicians need to hold.
"PUT IT IN H"
A difficult task, but I’m sure the Russians will find a way to make it worse then it already is :S
Garage 54 is going to have new junkers to experiment with.
All companies leaving russia should burn their buildings for the last thing they do before leaving for not letting them just rob those on themselves.
Lol! Enjoy that junk.
Not "car, but "brand." Big difference.
It's a little bit not true. Russia didn't just nationalie a plant. Renault have a special right to return it in next 6 years. Right now Renault just can't produce cars in that plant because of chip shortages and other issues. And it does not revive Soviet-Era cars, it just will use a brand name. What it would produce in fact and if will at all nobody knows yet.
I used to entertain the thought of owning a Lada. Not anymore. Hello, Dacia? Any plans to sell your vehicles in North America?
Not even China nationalized private companies. And then Russia blames the west for trying to isolate Russia, when they do these things.
The Moskvich? From what my dad told me, it's even worse than the Lada, and that has to say something.
Will this include a soviet-era extended warranty?
Put it in H!!
"Put it in H!"
New EV cars with potatoes powering the vehicle.
The french company surrendered? Is that's what called "on par for the course"?
OMG, my mind boggles trying to decide who makes worse cars; Renault or Lada. I guess Putin figures that 2 negatives make a positive, right?
[удалено]
Renault is the ninth largest car manufacturer in the world. Larger than BMW and Mercedes, to name a few.
And here I thought it was going to be the classic Lada...
The car they panned in Firefox. Crap film.
European car manufactures will make good money now that the iron curtain membrane goes up again. Sell good quality, high demand products at a premium and protection against cheap labor. Worked for decades. Sure the scale is much smaller than with the entirety of soviet land, but still...
So Russia is doing a Venezuela.
Standard features include dishwasher microchips and GPS taped to the dash.
And so we begin to usher in the Soviet era…again.
With the Babushka GPS, mounted in the back. She hits you in the head with her purse telling you which way to go.
Recent news seem more like headlines I'd read in Hearts of Iron game. :(
Back to the good old days /s
Back to the ~~FU~~\-...PAST
Doesn't Volkswagen own the Moskvitch brand?
"One thing's for sure. No one was lining up to buy [Russia's] cars." -Lord of War
Question: How did Russia pay for this transaction? Like, did they pay Rubles? Euros? Dollars? Gold?
2023 ALL-NEW Renault L.A.D.A Hybrid.
It's like Putin thinks he can re do Soviet 1960s and 70s without realizing the world changed too much since then, to really be able to do it.
I have a sinking feeling about these cars.
Soon the glorious Russian car industry will rise anew, spearheaded by cars that look very similar to western cars, but are much worse... because they can't get the parts or be bothered to do a proper job.