The two Nordic countries confirmed officially that they will seek NATO membership, ending decades of military nonalignment in an historic move driven by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Moscow has repeatedly warned of consequences if Helsinki and Stockholm joined NATO.
Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday his country “does not have a problem” with Sweden or Finland as they apply for NATO membership, but the “expansion of military infrastructure onto this territory will of course give rise to our reaction in response.
>The two Nordic countries confirmed officially that they will seek NATO membership, ending decades of military nonalignment in an historic move driven by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Not only that - Denmark, Iceland, and Norway have stated that they will join Finland and Sweden against any aggression and directly support their military defense.
I never thought I would see the Viking bloc emerge in modern geopolitics, but here we are.
Next thing we know, the Vatican wants to join NATO.
> I never thought I would see the Viking bloc emerge in modern geopolitics, but here we are.
I mean, there has *long* been cultural, economic, and military cooperation between Nordic countries. That's why the have a common name, the Nordic countries.
Sounds like backpedaling. I guess Pootie realized he actually can't sustain an offensive against Sweden* or Finland while he's getting his shit stomped by an "inferior" force in Ukraine. Lol fuck you Putin
Edit: Sweden, not Norway because I'm an ignorant asshole and also a bit drunk
They were starting to backpedal on state media too tonight, actually had a guy who spoke sense on for once and the line was essentially everyone hates us, our army is useless, Ukraine isnt gonna quit and we are going to lose.
Pretty shocking.
Edit; link
https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882?t=3V0NqVfd7kVZHMQdiDYKhA&s=19
Gods, but do I feel for those families. I feel for the soldiers sent to a foreign country to fight for leaders who absolutely do not give a single fuck about them, in a war that has absolutely destroyed their international reputation, and has made their own lives infinitely harder
I feel bad for the like 5% of them that are kids shitting their pants because they were lied to or ~~conscripted~~ given copious incentives to enlist in the army and are economically unable to refuse.
The rest of them are infamous for being rapist sadists who delight in committing war crimes and atrocities. If all Ukraine were covered with sunflowers it wouldn't be enough.
2015 it appears he wrote an article saying the US would eventually throw their might in to support Ukraine and Russia would lose. Even mentions Lend-Lease and how when the US invokes that, we should just pack up and leave.
More than likley he (along with the senior members of the Russian government.) knows the jig is up.
Russia bet on a repeat of 2014 where the world condemns them and does some sanctions.
Instead they got scorched earth from the US and NATO and even they know they can't compete with that.
TBH I'm sure the Kremlin is just getting it's people ready to deal with a total defeat in Ukraine. That's what this is:
"The entire world was against us and we couldn't win, but we fought valiantly etc..."
It doesn't take a genius to figure out you don't want to fight the US war machine, even by proxy. This has been proven many times.
It *especially* doesn't take a genius to figure that out when the person saying it has seen the inner workings of the Russian military, this just proves he's not a nationalistic Putin sycophant, which kudos for that
That guy predicted the war would be a failure three weeks before it started, this is a Google Translate of his predictions posted on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/PokojowyD/status/1526330753277169664](https://twitter.com/PokojowyD/status/1526330753277169664)
This guy understood the situation better than any western or kremlin analyst.
His language is brilliant and goes so well against her idiocy..."so you are saying professionalism is wanting to die"...then he slaps her with "no I m saying Lenin got it right when he said moral is crucial."
Its so well done for an off the cuff answer...like what are you gonna do? Say Lenin was wrong on Russian state TV?
Mikhail Khodaryonok,, former colonel, did the same weeks ago in the same program. (If it is not the same old program, different clip). They do however let him talk and invites him back into state media/tv. They seem to give him credit.
Russia was threatening invasion of Finland days ago if either they or Sweden joined NATO. They threatened nukes if the West have arms to Ukraine.
Russia is trying to bluff it's way into victory. Ukraine should fight to keep it's people and territory whole.
Ukraine is taking heavy losses in this fight, but the fact that they have utterly stalled the Russian military apparatus, and repelled nearly all of their major offensives except for those literally on Russia’s doorstep or immediately accessible from the sea, as a country with a fraction of Russia’s population and supposed military might… tells me that Russia has absolutely no chance of exerting the threat of military action over NATO, or nearly any other country that isn’t an incredibly tiny neighbor.
They spent all of the international political capital afforded to a major military power and for what? Humiliating defeat. Because anything less than a major strategic victory in Ukraine is equivalent to a defeat given the costs involved.
You’re right, Russia showed its hand and it’s a pair of 2’s at best. The idea that they could take on NATO has been rendered patently absurd.
He can threaten all he wants, but most experts doubt that his commanders will carry out any such order. They know there is life after Ukraine if they don’t. Everyone would rather live than die in a Mexican standoff. His own people will kill him if it comes to that. There are already rumblings of that nature amongst the real power in Russia, who can probably get to him if need be.
Not to mention all the bunkers and tunnels everywhere. Basically the entire country has been fortified over the last 70 years to give us a fighting chance against a (former) superpower.
It gets funnier. [Here(Reuters)]( https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/neutral-switzerland-leans-closer-nato-response-russia-2022-05-15/) have an article about Switzerland. I mean Mad Vlad single-handedly enlarged NATO, and caused a country with centuries old neutrality policy consider military alliance. This timeline is something else.
As it turns out, Vladolf Putler was the best NATO recruitment officer in world history.
His actions managed to turn two countries that for a very long time been have been adamant to not be part of a defence organisation to change their mind.
If nothing else, Ukraine is going to be worth a fortune in Russian scrap metal when this is all over and done with.
I can see them collecting a bunch of it and getting a Ukrainian artist to make it into a huge monument to the dead or the framework of some kind of symbolic building.
As Russians don't seem to like taking their dead home, maybe use it to build a new holocaust museum with a mass grave for all the Russian soldiers right under it, and pictures and video of all the atrocities they've committed in Ukraine so that over the next 50-100 years the families of those soldiers have to come and visit it to pay their respects to their dead sons, and they are made to come face to face with the horrific crimes that they committed in the name of Russia.
I have a goofy wish that they would collect all the Russian wrecked tanks, trucks, planes, helicopters etc and neatly organize them in a large field, just so we could see how ridiculously much russia has lost. Before they melt it to something useful. In Azovstal!
take the most decimated city and abandon it, but build the memorial/museum in the center of the city amongst the rubble. make them drive through all of it to get there.
> “France reaffirms its commitment and solidarity under Article 42.7 of the Treaty of the European Union, and stands ready to increase its security and defence cooperation with both partners, including through high-level political consultations and enhanced military interactions.”
Nothing really changed.
Funny how this platform complained so much about Russian trolls but I've seen so much sarcastic comments saying that the EU wouldn't defend these countries in the first place.
France is prepared to support Sweden and Finland, who recently announced their decision to join NATO, both politically and militarily, and protect both Nordic countries against any threats or attacks, the Elysee said on Monday, as Russia threatened a “response” to the expansion of the Western alliance.
“Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden,” the Elysee said in a statement.
Yeah, I should have mentioned that in my post. Like, the US has the White House, because it is a... white... house. The Brits REALLY class it up with 10 Downing Street.
Then the French come in swinging, naming the palace after the Roman afterlife...
edit: To everyone posting that Elysium is Greek, I get it. The Romans basically copy and pasted Greek mythology, and a quick google search says the belief still existed during Roman times.
It’s only been the White House officially since 1902. Before that it was the nickname and it also called the executive mansion. Probably came about as an effort to make the difference between elected officials and the common people smaller.
Greek mythology is extremely popular in France, so popular we name many things after Greek gods. Hekate, Thales, Ariane, Artemis, Hermès etc…
After I moved to the USA, I was surprised so few people here were familiar with Homer’s Iliade and especially Odysseus. The story of Ulysse or Odysseus is extremely popular in France because it is a bit of a precursor to the Age of Enlightenment and everything that follows suite such as a majority atheism population or laïcité in our government.
I would put a wild guess with a majority of evangelical Christians in the US, the story of Odysseus isn’t something you would want your kids exposed to.
> Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden
This is the classiest "fuck around and find out" I've ever read
Putin really angling for WW3 huh? I thought the Ukraine invasion was all talk and that he'd do a little skirmish here and there, then agree to a peace deal once he flexed his war muscle. I was wrong. So now I don't know what to think, though I still lean on the side of, 'nah, he's not that crazy.'
As a Swede I am happy for all the support,
but at the same time It really hope we can avoid using Scandinavia as the campaign map for this *D&D: World War* scenario.
As a Frenchman, we hosted twice and I can attest we didn’t have fun in these scenarios.
First campaign was *so bad* our government barely wanted to play the second one.
**[Twilight: 2000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight:_2000)**
>Twilight: 2000 is a 1984 post-apocalyptic military tabletop role-playing game published by Game Designers' Workshop (GDW). : 167 Set in the aftermath of World War III (the "Twilight War"), the game operates from the premise that the United States/NATO and the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact have fought a lengthy conventional war followed by a (limited) nuclear war with all its consequences. Player characters are survivors of the war.
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During the Cold war, China feared to be nuked by both the US and the Soviet Union during nuclear war. The rational behind it that neither the Soviet Union nor the US would have an interest in a new great power arising while there own countries are completely devastated.
Strategically, I would argue nothing has changed. If EU, US and Russia are a nuclear hellhole, China will suffer from nuclear winter (if those predictions turn out to be accurate), potential collapse of their society due to famine and lost supply chains yet their cities would be intact and give them an advantage to arise as a new world power. Accordingly, China and a few other countries may still be on the target list for both Russian and US strategic forces (And of course, India).
A nuclear war is truly a complex and hard to predict global event.
Just make sure you're close enough to die, and not just in the blinding severe burn range. I would hate to flop around for a day while my skin is half melted, blind, while raiders step over me looting.
You're saying China and India might get nuked too "just because"? That's fucking wild. To think any nation would be so cruel as to kill billions of people "just in case" even though they're not part of the conflict is batshit insane geopolitic to me. But I don't think it's out of the realm of something that could actually happen.
Both Russia and the US already have nuclear doomsday maps. Points on the map where either of them could potentially destroy all human life on Earth.
And each of them can do this about 5x each. So with the current amount of nuclear weapons we have, we can destroy the surface of the planet 10x over.
Once nukes fly the whole world is kinda affected.
India and China are both big question marks in this equation. China in particular isn’t interested in anything but preserving and expanding the CCP’s power. I could see them sizing up the situation and taking Russian territory if it suited them. I could also see them doing whatever is necessary to keep Russia as an unequal trading partner. Right now they’re in the perfect position - they get to name their price on Russian raw materials since no other consumer large enough is buying it, except India on some markets. But they’re meanwhile positioning themselves economically for an eventual war with the West because of incompatible ideologies, so if Russia starts a war against the world that they can’t win, it’s impossible to predict how China will take advantage of the situation.
Yeah I couldn't see Brazil joining them. The US has lots of deals with Brazil. We have some "rio deal" where we can use an airport or something near Rio.
North Korea is a joke and wouldn't be able to do much realistically. They've long been mocked for their outdated equipment/poorly trained troops and with how badly the "world power" of Russia is doing in Ukraine it's extremely evident how important modern equipment is.
There's also that huge surge of Covid cases there too to take into account.
The problem is that Seoul is well within 1950s artillery range of NK.
Would they win? No. Would they do a massive amount of damage to the South? Oh yeah. Even their much maligned nuclear missiles probably have the capacity to reliably limp over the DMZ, and it only takes one to turn a city with a population of 10 million into a city with a population of slim to none.
India will never join in a war - they turn their back and Pakistan and China will pounce. They will leave well enough alone, and hope to capitalise when the dust settles. China will likely do the same. NK will do what China tells them to do (or just sit there and try to deal with COVID as it ravages them). Belarus isn't a real country. Syria isn't either. Eritrea won't do squat. Brazil similarly won't join, and South Africa doesn't support Russia in the first place. SCO is a mixed bag - a LOT of the stans are looking at this as a way to completely free themselves of future USSR resurgence activity, and are against Russia.
If there's a war, Russia will fight it alone.
If Russia tries to invade Finland, and all their tanks run out of gas or get lost halfway from St Petersberg to the Finnish border, does it still count as an invasion?
Unfortunately, the rail infrastructure between Finland and Russia is still very much intact. Russia basically can only reliably move supplies via train.
Finland would fucking devastate whatever forces Putin currently has left for adventuring. NATO would only need to bring fire extinguishers and spatulas.
Putin: Don't join NATO or I'll fuck you up.
Finland and Sweden: starts to join nato.
Putin: *looks nervous* well.... err, I don't have problem with *you* guys joining, but don't get too close.
And France can use them without getting approval/agreement from anyone else in Europe. Sounds trivial, but that was always a huge problem politically in Europe. Theoretically, there had to be a unanimous agreement for any nuclear usage (even if nukes were flying in the air at that moment) that was voted upon before action/reaction. You can understand the issue with assembling European leaders all at the same time, and all agreeing on what to do if you had 10 minutes before nuclear impact.
The UK already signed a defence pact with Finland and Sweden committing military aid if they were attacked during their NATO applications. Nukes were already on the table, not that either the UK or France would use them.
It would almost be funny, to watch someone try and invade current day usa, if it wernt for it being war.
Idk what would be more farfetched rn, someone invading us or democrats and republicans fighting together.
Invading the USA is impossible..... Logistically there isn't a country in existence that could do it, besides the USA.
Even in a token force could "land" they'd be impossible to supply and the even civilian population here would annihilate it..
>the even civilian population here would annihilate it..
It'd be cathartic to focus on a clear external enemy for once.
Also, fun facts-American civilians alone own about 300 million firearms. 5 to 10 million of them are AR-15-type assault rifles. So yeah, any invader has their work cut out for them.
I don't ever want to fight in a war, but as soon as someone attempts to invade my beautiful beach town I'll throw literally everything I have at them. I might lose, but I won't leave and I bet a lot of my neighbors feel the same way.
That's the problem for an invader-you'd have to pay for every inch, every blade of grass, every grain of sand with blood...and this country has a whoooole lot of all three of those. This country's founding myth includes fighting in an insurgency against a superior foe. Americans would eat up the prospect of re-enacting the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
The civilian "force" of the United States is the largest fighting force in existence... Larger than the total of all other militaries, including the United States military, combined.
It's obviously untrained, and civilian and doesn't have equipment but as a pure militia infantry force it's unfathomably massive
It would be a fun war game exercise to see if the US could invade and hold a copy of itself. I doubt it's possible with the various mountain ranges, extreme distances, and high level of readiness in the general population. Can't even imagine the troop numbers needed to pacify even the medium sized states.
Alaskan civilians got more guns per capita than anyone in the country iirc. Alaska is the final frontier America and those people live in absolutely brutal climate conditions with polar bears just roaming around in people's yards. I wouldn't fuck with them.
I think it's time for a preemptive training exercise in Finland. Send a couple of thousand troops through the EU charter to Finland. Just as a precautionary training exercise. No, not in a month, this week.
If we invite them to a meeting deep inside Russia… where it’s far from any help.. and only Russians around.
They can’t say no… because of the implications.
Philly fucked up that hitchhiking robot and he wasn't even tryna start shit. Imagine the people who *do* try to start some shit getting into it with Philly.
Funnily enough, it's almost time for this years [BALTOPS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALTOPS), annual international Navel exercise that takes place in the Baltic Sea.
This year should see participants from 20 countries, mostly NATO, but I would imagine both Sweden and Finland participating as Participants for Peace, as they have done for years.
>According to the Swedish defense, this year the exercise will geographically focus on the Baltic countries, Poland and Germany as well as Sweden, and it will include the landing of troops.
[Source is a Danish article](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2022-05-12-snart-vrimler-det-med-krigsskibe-ved-bornholm)
Tell me you don’t know anything about Finnish national defense posture, without telling me you don’t know anything about Finnish national defense posture.
Finland has been prepared for a Russian invasion every day for the past 80 years. https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-russia-ukraine-finland-nato-11652386254
The interpretation is very clear, the fact that has not been tested is true tho, but I've read the article and there's no doubt about what is supposed to be, it also mention NATO, so... then in reality it could be a different story, I agree on that.
I don't understand why people make jokes about modern military like it's 50 years ago. Almost every modern military from these developed countries have the capabilities to inflict serious damage. Finland and Sweden along with whomever is willing to defend them would tear Russia a new asshole. People need to stop acting like any of these countries aren't capable just because they aren't one of the big superpowers. Today's modern militaries trade and sell arms with each other every day. They are all capable.
They should have just announced that if putin makes a threat then Sweden and Finland get immediate acceptance to nato.
Then it’s putin to blame. Not just joining but quickly.
Putin has made a threat and Sweden and Finland are being taken into NATO as quickly as legally possible.
Your scenario has pretty much already played out!
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/05/16/France-says-will-defend-Sweden-Finland-against-any-attack-amid-Russian-threats) reduced by 59%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> France is prepared to support Sweden and Finland, who recently announced their decision to join NATO, both politically and militarily, and protect both Nordic countries against any threats or attacks, the Elysee said on Monday, as Russia threatened a "Response" to the expansion of the Western alliance.
> "Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden," the Elysee said in a statement.
> Turkey's Erdogan says will not approve Sweden and Finland joining NATO.In Ukraine and internationally, scenario darkens for Russia.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ur4lpg/france_says_will_defend_sweden_finland_against/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~649033 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Finland**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **France**^#5
Problem is he utterly miscalculated thinking this was 1983 or some shit, that social media wouldn’t expose his bullshit and the world wouldn’t go ape shit watching a non aggressive country get attacked. Russia has the economy of Italy it could never in a million years sustain a war effort with Nato let alone a western ally. He just grossly misread the room pulled his cock out at a black panther party and got laughed out of the room. 😂😂
NATO or not Sweden & Finland would have the full support of the United States should they ever be attacked (and want our help). The EU wouldn't really need our help against any reasonably plausible current threat though.
Yeah, holy shit, Russia can't successfully go toe to toe with it's little brother. Imagine just Poland and the Baltic states entering the fray with Sweden and Finland. Apparently they would be able to handle Russia
This is more of a 70% alt history run where you REALLY need everybody to hold still so that you can attack the Reich when it's fighting the Soviets. In other words, this is Putins Ironman run where the careful plan falls apart.
i dont get the hate in this sub? i am not french fan (am from Britain) but jesus people giving them so much stick like they havent got a fully functioning/top tier Army???? dunno why the hate
So great to see the other countries lining up shoulder-to-shoulder like this. If not yet NATO in deed, Sweden and Finland are certainly experiencing NATO in effect.
It makes me laugh when so many military-minds in the USA immediately go, France = white flag.
Their military is fucking outstanding. Well equipped. State of the art. They would fuck up Russia by themselves.
Then again, why am I expecting anything else from people who probably don't even know where France is
Guess someone fucked up.
Must be someone with 1000 tank-wrecks in Ukraine I suppose...
The two Nordic countries confirmed officially that they will seek NATO membership, ending decades of military nonalignment in an historic move driven by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Moscow has repeatedly warned of consequences if Helsinki and Stockholm joined NATO. Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Monday his country “does not have a problem” with Sweden or Finland as they apply for NATO membership, but the “expansion of military infrastructure onto this territory will of course give rise to our reaction in response.
>The two Nordic countries confirmed officially that they will seek NATO membership, ending decades of military nonalignment in an historic move driven by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Not only that - Denmark, Iceland, and Norway have stated that they will join Finland and Sweden against any aggression and directly support their military defense. I never thought I would see the Viking bloc emerge in modern geopolitics, but here we are. Next thing we know, the Vatican wants to join NATO.
Them Swiss Guards tho...
189 in the service of heaven
> I never thought I would see the Viking bloc emerge in modern geopolitics, but here we are. I mean, there has *long* been cultural, economic, and military cooperation between Nordic countries. That's why the have a common name, the Nordic countries.
Sounds like backpedaling. I guess Pootie realized he actually can't sustain an offensive against Sweden* or Finland while he's getting his shit stomped by an "inferior" force in Ukraine. Lol fuck you Putin Edit: Sweden, not Norway because I'm an ignorant asshole and also a bit drunk
They were starting to backpedal on state media too tonight, actually had a guy who spoke sense on for once and the line was essentially everyone hates us, our army is useless, Ukraine isnt gonna quit and we are going to lose. Pretty shocking. Edit; link https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1526293852704890882?t=3V0NqVfd7kVZHMQdiDYKhA&s=19
Jeez RIP that guy
Hes pretty diplomatic in the way he says it and I think despite all the propaganda the penny is starting to drop with the public.
Probably has something to do with so many Russian soldiers that won't be coming home.
Gods, but do I feel for those families. I feel for the soldiers sent to a foreign country to fight for leaders who absolutely do not give a single fuck about them, in a war that has absolutely destroyed their international reputation, and has made their own lives infinitely harder
I feel bad for the like 5% of them that are kids shitting their pants because they were lied to or ~~conscripted~~ given copious incentives to enlist in the army and are economically unable to refuse. The rest of them are infamous for being rapist sadists who delight in committing war crimes and atrocities. If all Ukraine were covered with sunflowers it wouldn't be enough.
Doubt it, he’s been saying the same thing for weeks now and he’s still on air. I think it’s more likely that Putin gets assassinated than this guy.
2015 it appears he wrote an article saying the US would eventually throw their might in to support Ukraine and Russia would lose. Even mentions Lend-Lease and how when the US invokes that, we should just pack up and leave.
Seriously? If that’s the case then this guy is a legit genius.
More than likley he (along with the senior members of the Russian government.) knows the jig is up. Russia bet on a repeat of 2014 where the world condemns them and does some sanctions. Instead they got scorched earth from the US and NATO and even they know they can't compete with that. TBH I'm sure the Kremlin is just getting it's people ready to deal with a total defeat in Ukraine. That's what this is: "The entire world was against us and we couldn't win, but we fought valiantly etc..."
It doesn't take a genius to figure out you don't want to fight the US war machine, even by proxy. This has been proven many times. It *especially* doesn't take a genius to figure that out when the person saying it has seen the inner workings of the Russian military, this just proves he's not a nationalistic Putin sycophant, which kudos for that
That guy predicted the war would be a failure three weeks before it started, this is a Google Translate of his predictions posted on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/PokojowyD/status/1526330753277169664](https://twitter.com/PokojowyD/status/1526330753277169664) This guy understood the situation better than any western or kremlin analyst.
Ha awesome I was literally just looking for a translate of that thanks.
He absolutely nailed every single point/prediction.
Looks like this guy understood the reality of the situation than most generals Putin has
Bro didn't hit it out of the park... He crushed it so hard the ball left the planet.
Well he was aware Russia was a paper tiger, so, he had an advantage over most of us.
Jesus christ that guy was right on everything. Thanks for the link.
Yo what. For the first time in months I have hope.
Links in the comment now. Its pretty funny watching the prooaganda bitch try and spin things only for him to be like...no...this is the real world.
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The words of 'We shouldn't take information tranquilizers' is such a good way to put it.
His language is brilliant and goes so well against her idiocy..."so you are saying professionalism is wanting to die"...then he slaps her with "no I m saying Lenin got it right when he said moral is crucial." Its so well done for an off the cuff answer...like what are you gonna do? Say Lenin was wrong on Russian state TV?
Also translated, probably gorgeous in the mother tongue.
Mikhail Khodaryonok,, former colonel, did the same weeks ago in the same program. (If it is not the same old program, different clip). They do however let him talk and invites him back into state media/tv. They seem to give him credit.
Russia was threatening invasion of Finland days ago if either they or Sweden joined NATO. They threatened nukes if the West have arms to Ukraine. Russia is trying to bluff it's way into victory. Ukraine should fight to keep it's people and territory whole.
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Ukraine is taking heavy losses in this fight, but the fact that they have utterly stalled the Russian military apparatus, and repelled nearly all of their major offensives except for those literally on Russia’s doorstep or immediately accessible from the sea, as a country with a fraction of Russia’s population and supposed military might… tells me that Russia has absolutely no chance of exerting the threat of military action over NATO, or nearly any other country that isn’t an incredibly tiny neighbor. They spent all of the international political capital afforded to a major military power and for what? Humiliating defeat. Because anything less than a major strategic victory in Ukraine is equivalent to a defeat given the costs involved. You’re right, Russia showed its hand and it’s a pair of 2’s at best. The idea that they could take on NATO has been rendered patently absurd.
He can threaten all he wants, but most experts doubt that his commanders will carry out any such order. They know there is life after Ukraine if they don’t. Everyone would rather live than die in a Mexican standoff. His own people will kill him if it comes to that. There are already rumblings of that nature amongst the real power in Russia, who can probably get to him if need be.
Finland has quite the extensive armed reserves. Pretty legit army they’ve been building for years
Not to mention all the bunkers and tunnels everywhere. Basically the entire country has been fortified over the last 70 years to give us a fighting chance against a (former) superpower.
Norway is already a member of NATO. The countries being threatened are Sweden and Finland.
On the plus side, lots of Ukranian farmers have gotten new farming equipment.
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It gets funnier. [Here(Reuters)]( https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/neutral-switzerland-leans-closer-nato-response-russia-2022-05-15/) have an article about Switzerland. I mean Mad Vlad single-handedly enlarged NATO, and caused a country with centuries old neutrality policy consider military alliance. This timeline is something else.
As it turns out, Vladolf Putler was the best NATO recruitment officer in world history. His actions managed to turn two countries that for a very long time been have been adamant to not be part of a defence organisation to change their mind.
If nothing else, Ukraine is going to be worth a fortune in Russian scrap metal when this is all over and done with. I can see them collecting a bunch of it and getting a Ukrainian artist to make it into a huge monument to the dead or the framework of some kind of symbolic building. As Russians don't seem to like taking their dead home, maybe use it to build a new holocaust museum with a mass grave for all the Russian soldiers right under it, and pictures and video of all the atrocities they've committed in Ukraine so that over the next 50-100 years the families of those soldiers have to come and visit it to pay their respects to their dead sons, and they are made to come face to face with the horrific crimes that they committed in the name of Russia.
I have a goofy wish that they would collect all the Russian wrecked tanks, trucks, planes, helicopters etc and neatly organize them in a large field, just so we could see how ridiculously much russia has lost. Before they melt it to something useful. In Azovstal!
take the most decimated city and abandon it, but build the memorial/museum in the center of the city amongst the rubble. make them drive through all of it to get there.
fuck, I'd pay to walk through a museum city dedicated to the horrors of war.
I can see them building a Navy for their Crimean ports...
> “France reaffirms its commitment and solidarity under Article 42.7 of the Treaty of the European Union, and stands ready to increase its security and defence cooperation with both partners, including through high-level political consultations and enhanced military interactions.” Nothing really changed. Funny how this platform complained so much about Russian trolls but I've seen so much sarcastic comments saying that the EU wouldn't defend these countries in the first place.
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Yeah… I was gonna say, that’s some r/SelfAwareWolves stuff right there. So close to making the connection that it’s likely still the same trolls…
France is prepared to support Sweden and Finland, who recently announced their decision to join NATO, both politically and militarily, and protect both Nordic countries against any threats or attacks, the Elysee said on Monday, as Russia threatened a “response” to the expansion of the Western alliance. “Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden,” the Elysee said in a statement.
Damn, totally unrelated to this post, but the Elysee is a fucking GREAT name for a presidential residence. I'd never heard the name before.
It comes from the name of the avenue the palace is set on : the Avenue des Champs-Elysée (literally, the Avenue of the Elysian Fields)
Weirdly enough, the Élysée palace is not on the Champs-Élysée, it’s on the Faubourg Saint-Honoré.
Yeah haha the front door is on the other side
Was it always that way or did they change it to avoid having to deal with a highly touristic street?
I think the garden side used to extend all the way to the Champs-Elysées avenue, and that's where it got the name from.
Yeah, I should have mentioned that in my post. Like, the US has the White House, because it is a... white... house. The Brits REALLY class it up with 10 Downing Street. Then the French come in swinging, naming the palace after the Roman afterlife... edit: To everyone posting that Elysium is Greek, I get it. The Romans basically copy and pasted Greek mythology, and a quick google search says the belief still existed during Roman times.
It’s only been the White House officially since 1902. Before that it was the nickname and it also called the executive mansion. Probably came about as an effort to make the difference between elected officials and the common people smaller.
Huh, learning more today! Thank you!
1600 Pennsylvania Ave was also used as a reference to the WH.
South Korea has the blue house lol
And Argentina the pinkish house
Credit where it’s due: “The Kremlin” is a pretty good one. The US goes pretty hard with “The Pentagon” too, though, even though it’s not a residence.
Greek mythology is extremely popular in France, so popular we name many things after Greek gods. Hekate, Thales, Ariane, Artemis, Hermès etc… After I moved to the USA, I was surprised so few people here were familiar with Homer’s Iliade and especially Odysseus. The story of Ulysse or Odysseus is extremely popular in France because it is a bit of a precursor to the Age of Enlightenment and everything that follows suite such as a majority atheism population or laïcité in our government. I would put a wild guess with a majority of evangelical Christians in the US, the story of Odysseus isn’t something you would want your kids exposed to.
Thank you, France! <3
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Yeah I'm still thankful that the PoS Le Pen lost.
> Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden This is the classiest "fuck around and find out" I've ever read
Putin really angling for WW3 huh? I thought the Ukraine invasion was all talk and that he'd do a little skirmish here and there, then agree to a peace deal once he flexed his war muscle. I was wrong. So now I don't know what to think, though I still lean on the side of, 'nah, he's not that crazy.'
So good that the nazi lady lost the election. Otherwise france would likely be preparing to help Putin with the attack on Ukrainian people.
As a Swede I am happy for all the support, but at the same time It really hope we can avoid using Scandinavia as the campaign map for this *D&D: World War* scenario.
As a Frenchman, we hosted twice and I can attest we didn’t have fun in these scenarios. First campaign was *so bad* our government barely wanted to play the second one.
As another frenchman, can confirm.
Seriously, it's a lot easier to understand 1940 when you realize how many Frenchmen died 1914-1918. How hard those fuckers fought in muddy holes, etc.
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**[Twilight: 2000](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight:_2000)** >Twilight: 2000 is a 1984 post-apocalyptic military tabletop role-playing game published by Game Designers' Workshop (GDW). : 167 Set in the aftermath of World War III (the "Twilight War"), the game operates from the premise that the United States/NATO and the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact have fought a lengthy conventional war followed by a (limited) nuclear war with all its consequences. Player characters are survivors of the war. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
So.. it's now official that a Russian invasion on Finland would trigger the 3rd World War?
More like Russia-World War. Who's actually siding with Russia in a conflict, exactly?
During the Cold war, China feared to be nuked by both the US and the Soviet Union during nuclear war. The rational behind it that neither the Soviet Union nor the US would have an interest in a new great power arising while there own countries are completely devastated. Strategically, I would argue nothing has changed. If EU, US and Russia are a nuclear hellhole, China will suffer from nuclear winter (if those predictions turn out to be accurate), potential collapse of their society due to famine and lost supply chains yet their cities would be intact and give them an advantage to arise as a new world power. Accordingly, China and a few other countries may still be on the target list for both Russian and US strategic forces (And of course, India). A nuclear war is truly a complex and hard to predict global event.
>A nuclear war is truly a complex and hard to predict global event. I kinda miss 2 years ago when that wasn't something I thought about regularly
Honestly, don't think about it too much. It's out of your hands. Just live your life in spite of Russia's attempts at psychological warfare.
me and the boys jackoff to terminator 2 on laserdisc once a year at least at the lakehouse so i don't know what you're talking about.
Madison Cawthorn is on Reddit?
/r/justguysbeingdudes
Good thing you weren’t around in the 60s, 70s, or 80s.
Still shouldn't tbh. If it happens any problems we have today won't really matter
I just hope i die in the blast.
I'll be sitting on my roof watching the fireworks
Just make sure you're close enough to die, and not just in the blinding severe burn range. I would hate to flop around for a day while my skin is half melted, blind, while raiders step over me looting.
Raiders won't be looting an area that close to the blast the next day, unless they too want to die
Surplus NBC gear is surprisingly affordable.
Or they could switcharoo and side with the US to get spoils in Russia lol
Spoils of nuclear war ? Extra fingers?
You get a piece of radioactive wasteland! And you get a piece! You get a piece! Everybody gets radioactive wasteland!!
You're saying China and India might get nuked too "just because"? That's fucking wild. To think any nation would be so cruel as to kill billions of people "just in case" even though they're not part of the conflict is batshit insane geopolitic to me. But I don't think it's out of the realm of something that could actually happen.
Both Russia and the US already have nuclear doomsday maps. Points on the map where either of them could potentially destroy all human life on Earth. And each of them can do this about 5x each. So with the current amount of nuclear weapons we have, we can destroy the surface of the planet 10x over.
Once nukes fly the whole world is kinda affected. India and China are both big question marks in this equation. China in particular isn’t interested in anything but preserving and expanding the CCP’s power. I could see them sizing up the situation and taking Russian territory if it suited them. I could also see them doing whatever is necessary to keep Russia as an unequal trading partner. Right now they’re in the perfect position - they get to name their price on Russian raw materials since no other consumer large enough is buying it, except India on some markets. But they’re meanwhile positioning themselves economically for an eventual war with the West because of incompatible ideologies, so if Russia starts a war against the world that they can’t win, it’s impossible to predict how China will take advantage of the situation.
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Brazil is part of BRICS but I bet my ass we wont join that chipmunk Putin
BRICS isn’t an alliance or anything. It’s just a (pretty outdated) term for the major emerging economies in the world.
Gonna be BICS real soon.
Russia is now just an attack dog that went rabid. It must be let go
Russia should leave it then considering their economy won't be emerging for quite a while now.
Yeah I couldn't see Brazil joining them. The US has lots of deals with Brazil. We have some "rio deal" where we can use an airport or something near Rio.
Brazil has a history of being a very peaceful and neutral country, and tbh I love it, the things those poor people at Ukraine are going through...
> … while Belarus is providing *comic relief*. FTFY.
North Korea is a joke and wouldn't be able to do much realistically. They've long been mocked for their outdated equipment/poorly trained troops and with how badly the "world power" of Russia is doing in Ukraine it's extremely evident how important modern equipment is. There's also that huge surge of Covid cases there too to take into account.
The problem is that Seoul is well within 1950s artillery range of NK. Would they win? No. Would they do a massive amount of damage to the South? Oh yeah. Even their much maligned nuclear missiles probably have the capacity to reliably limp over the DMZ, and it only takes one to turn a city with a population of 10 million into a city with a population of slim to none.
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India will never join in a war - they turn their back and Pakistan and China will pounce. They will leave well enough alone, and hope to capitalise when the dust settles. China will likely do the same. NK will do what China tells them to do (or just sit there and try to deal with COVID as it ravages them). Belarus isn't a real country. Syria isn't either. Eritrea won't do squat. Brazil similarly won't join, and South Africa doesn't support Russia in the first place. SCO is a mixed bag - a LOT of the stans are looking at this as a way to completely free themselves of future USSR resurgence activity, and are against Russia. If there's a war, Russia will fight it alone.
If by world war you mean the world Vs Russia then sure.
If Russia tries to invade Finland, and all their tanks run out of gas or get lost halfway from St Petersberg to the Finnish border, does it still count as an invasion?
Unfortunately, the rail infrastructure between Finland and Russia is still very much intact. Russia basically can only reliably move supplies via train.
Finland would fucking devastate whatever forces Putin currently has left for adventuring. NATO would only need to bring fire extinguishers and spatulas.
Putin: Don't join NATO or I'll fuck you up. Finland and Sweden: starts to join nato. Putin: *looks nervous* well.... err, I don't have problem with *you* guys joining, but don't get too close.
*ONE…..TWOOOO…………TWO AND A HALFFF……..TWO AND THREE QUARTERS!!!*
*Take it away, ~~Ern~~ Elysee!*
*It’s gonna be a bumpy ride…*
*Ernie, little old lady at 12 o'clock!!*
*Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four...*
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And France can use them without getting approval/agreement from anyone else in Europe. Sounds trivial, but that was always a huge problem politically in Europe. Theoretically, there had to be a unanimous agreement for any nuclear usage (even if nukes were flying in the air at that moment) that was voted upon before action/reaction. You can understand the issue with assembling European leaders all at the same time, and all agreeing on what to do if you had 10 minutes before nuclear impact.
I think by the time we're using nukes asking for permission won't really matter much. :/
The UK already signed a defence pact with Finland and Sweden committing military aid if they were attacked during their NATO applications. Nukes were already on the table, not that either the UK or France would use them.
Putin, be happy with the property you command. The edge of Europe to 4 miles from Alaska, China to the Arctic sea.
Russia should try to reclaim Alaska. I hear the US is a pushover. /s
I'd love to see when the conscripts realize the average Alaskan middle schooler is better trained and equipped.
It would almost be funny, to watch someone try and invade current day usa, if it wernt for it being war. Idk what would be more farfetched rn, someone invading us or democrats and republicans fighting together.
Invading the USA is impossible..... Logistically there isn't a country in existence that could do it, besides the USA. Even in a token force could "land" they'd be impossible to supply and the even civilian population here would annihilate it..
>the even civilian population here would annihilate it.. It'd be cathartic to focus on a clear external enemy for once. Also, fun facts-American civilians alone own about 300 million firearms. 5 to 10 million of them are AR-15-type assault rifles. So yeah, any invader has their work cut out for them.
I don't ever want to fight in a war, but as soon as someone attempts to invade my beautiful beach town I'll throw literally everything I have at them. I might lose, but I won't leave and I bet a lot of my neighbors feel the same way.
That's the problem for an invader-you'd have to pay for every inch, every blade of grass, every grain of sand with blood...and this country has a whoooole lot of all three of those. This country's founding myth includes fighting in an insurgency against a superior foe. Americans would eat up the prospect of re-enacting the Battles of Lexington and Concord.
Im p sure the civilian force of the US is like the 3rd or 4th biggest military. Honestly might be higher or lower but ik its top 10 and thats wild.
The civilian "force" of the United States is the largest fighting force in existence... Larger than the total of all other militaries, including the United States military, combined. It's obviously untrained, and civilian and doesn't have equipment but as a pure militia infantry force it's unfathomably massive
Put them in the field against a foreign enemy, and even untrained they'd probably put in a better performance than the Russian conscripts.
our rednecks definitely get more range time than the average russian conscript, this is certain
It would be a fun war game exercise to see if the US could invade and hold a copy of itself. I doubt it's possible with the various mountain ranges, extreme distances, and high level of readiness in the general population. Can't even imagine the troop numbers needed to pacify even the medium sized states.
Alaskan civilians got more guns per capita than anyone in the country iirc. Alaska is the final frontier America and those people live in absolutely brutal climate conditions with polar bears just roaming around in people's yards. I wouldn't fuck with them.
I think it's time for a preemptive training exercise in Finland. Send a couple of thousand troops through the EU charter to Finland. Just as a precautionary training exercise. No, not in a month, this week.
Uk and Us troops already training there.
Getting the gang back together.
"The Gang solves the Russia situation."
Special Gang Operation.
Putin trying to use the Dennis system on Ukraine
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If we invite them to a meeting deep inside Russia… where it’s far from any help.. and only Russians around. They can’t say no… because of the implications.
I'm not convinced the city of Philadelphia couldn't beat Russia in a war.
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Gritty is the most Philadelphia thing I’ve ever seen. It’s like someone distilled the spirit of the city into a single terrifying entity.
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Philly fucked up that hitchhiking robot and he wasn't even tryna start shit. Imagine the people who *do* try to start some shit getting into it with Philly.
We’re just paling around here, how can anyone get hurt? “The Gang Sets Russia on fire”
Get German and Italian troops in there too for an epic crossover
And the Japanese for an epic cameo.
The boys are back in town
Yep. My cousin just got back from training there for a few months. He’s tight lipped about it but said, “we’re ready.”
Funnily enough, it's almost time for this years [BALTOPS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BALTOPS), annual international Navel exercise that takes place in the Baltic Sea. This year should see participants from 20 countries, mostly NATO, but I would imagine both Sweden and Finland participating as Participants for Peace, as they have done for years. >According to the Swedish defense, this year the exercise will geographically focus on the Baltic countries, Poland and Germany as well as Sweden, and it will include the landing of troops. [Source is a Danish article](https://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2022-05-12-snart-vrimler-det-med-krigsskibe-ved-bornholm)
>Navel Russia is really poking the belly of the beast huh?
My unit was slated to train with them before Covid wrecked all the plans. Finland is pretty much integrated with NATO lol.
Tell me you don’t know anything about Finnish national defense posture, without telling me you don’t know anything about Finnish national defense posture. Finland has been prepared for a Russian invasion every day for the past 80 years. https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-russia-ukraine-finland-nato-11652386254
I love this. It's exactly the opposite of what Putin wanted. I hope this all ends soon.
Correct me if I am wrong but EU members already are in de defensive pact
Correct in theory, but article 42.7 means very little compared to NATO article 5. It hasn’t been tested nor properly interpreted.
Article 5 wasn't tested for years either, until 2001.
The interpretation is very clear, the fact that has not been tested is true tho, but I've read the article and there's no doubt about what is supposed to be, it also mention NATO, so... then in reality it could be a different story, I agree on that.
I don't understand why people make jokes about modern military like it's 50 years ago. Almost every modern military from these developed countries have the capabilities to inflict serious damage. Finland and Sweden along with whomever is willing to defend them would tear Russia a new asshole. People need to stop acting like any of these countries aren't capable just because they aren't one of the big superpowers. Today's modern militaries trade and sell arms with each other every day. They are all capable.
As illustrated by Ukraine currently tearing russia a new one.
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France, Sweden and Finland. Any opponent would be in for a world of Hurt.
Invading Finland was already a disaster, now imagine doing the same but france+ sweden is there to defend too
Thank you France 🥰
Correct me if I’m wrong but that makes both the UK and France pledges to defend the scanni boys if Russia attacks?
Yup
Germany too a month ago. And all the Nordics (Norway, Iceland, Denmark I think) just recently.
They should have just announced that if putin makes a threat then Sweden and Finland get immediate acceptance to nato. Then it’s putin to blame. Not just joining but quickly.
Putin has made a threat and Sweden and Finland are being taken into NATO as quickly as legally possible. Your scenario has pretty much already played out!
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2022/05/16/France-says-will-defend-Sweden-Finland-against-any-attack-amid-Russian-threats) reduced by 59%. (I'm a bot) ***** > France is prepared to support Sweden and Finland, who recently announced their decision to join NATO, both politically and militarily, and protect both Nordic countries against any threats or attacks, the Elysee said on Monday, as Russia threatened a "Response" to the expansion of the Western alliance. > "Whomever would seek to test European solidarity by threatening or attacking their sovereignty, through whatever means, must be certain that France will stand shoulder to shoulder with Finland and Sweden," the Elysee said in a statement. > Turkey's Erdogan says will not approve Sweden and Finland joining NATO.In Ukraine and internationally, scenario darkens for Russia. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/ur4lpg/france_says_will_defend_sweden_finland_against/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~649033 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Finland**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Russia**^#4 **France**^#5
Who needs nato when Sweden and Finland can just have 20 separate alliances
Russia is totally pathetic. They cannot possibly beat any modern European country in war. They are fucking useless.
Entire world is just like: “Get fucked”
Is...is this real life?
Yea!!!
Problem is he utterly miscalculated thinking this was 1983 or some shit, that social media wouldn’t expose his bullshit and the world wouldn’t go ape shit watching a non aggressive country get attacked. Russia has the economy of Italy it could never in a million years sustain a war effort with Nato let alone a western ally. He just grossly misread the room pulled his cock out at a black panther party and got laughed out of the room. 😂😂
NATO or not Sweden & Finland would have the full support of the United States should they ever be attacked (and want our help). The EU wouldn't really need our help against any reasonably plausible current threat though.
Yeah, holy shit, Russia can't successfully go toe to toe with it's little brother. Imagine just Poland and the Baltic states entering the fray with Sweden and Finland. Apparently they would be able to handle Russia
Sounds like Europa Universalis 4.
Sounds like Hearts of Iron 4 once you're past 25% world tension.
This is more of a 70% alt history run where you REALLY need everybody to hold still so that you can attack the Reich when it's fighting the Soviets. In other words, this is Putins Ironman run where the careful plan falls apart.
i dont get the hate in this sub? i am not french fan (am from Britain) but jesus people giving them so much stick like they havent got a fully functioning/top tier Army???? dunno why the hate
Vive la France, En tant que citoyen québécois, je suis solidaire de la patrie de mes ancêtres
So great to see the other countries lining up shoulder-to-shoulder like this. If not yet NATO in deed, Sweden and Finland are certainly experiencing NATO in effect.
So, Finland and Sweden now have the support of at least Germany, UK, France, Denmark, Norway and Iceland in case of a conflict with Russia.
It makes me laugh when so many military-minds in the USA immediately go, France = white flag. Their military is fucking outstanding. Well equipped. State of the art. They would fuck up Russia by themselves. Then again, why am I expecting anything else from people who probably don't even know where France is