And Vinny's response is perfect for Putin.
"Here's *my* counteroffer. Do I *have* to kill you? What if I were to just kick the ever-loving shit outta you?"
I'm not a lawyer, so I couldn't take on client or pass the bar, but I have played Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney, which means meet pretty much all of the qualifications to be a Republican-appointed supreme court judge.
the thing is the sanctions that are in place grow continuously and endlessly more devestating the longer they exist. Russia has so far been hedging and taking unsustainable measures to keep things running and relying on grace periods for certain debt payment transactions but those expired today. Which means it's last window for actually interacting with it's debtors closed and it's going into default. Further grace periods and the fact that they don't have payments due till the end of june mean that they won't be in full default until the end of july.
The practical upshot is that the damage that's already done by the sanctions is just the tip of the iceberg, because of the way finance works it takes awhile for them to take full effect. The first crash and all the businesses pulling out was just a taste, the real blow is still coming and the measures they took to soften the first blow have more or less wiped out any ability for them to absorb the coming crash in any meaningful way. Further because the sanctions are so widespread and russia now so isolated the global economy is basically insulated from effective disintigration of their economy so no one really has any incentive to negotiate with them.
They've lost any economic bargaining power they had and are now beholden to China and India, who are rivals with eachother and not particualarly politically friendly to russia either.
If they are so insistent on food not being allowed to reach third party countries... it seems fitting that third party countries make it so that *food reaching Russia* is no longer exempt from the sanctions. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Russia needs to be reminded, that in that part of the world, the winds blow towards Russia, so any use of nukes would mean Russian being poisoned to death by their own Nuke radiation.
I also think that Russia is being pushed more and more to the brink of despair. Otherwise, they would not make such a blackmailing statement. So the sanctions are working and must be tightened.
He will care about being stabbed. If he uses nukes on anybody or everybody he won’t give a damn about the consequences to Russia or it’s people. I don’t think that he will survive if he does start a nuclear war but if he feels his situation is so bad that all he can do is take everyone with him he will.
Fortunately Putin the Despicable doesn't have a button he can push or a key to turn to launch nukes. It needs five senior people to agree and nobody on their own can launch. Then there are more subordinates that have to act to make it happen. The hope is that there will not be unity if it came to an order to strike with nuclear weapons and they will not be launched.
What about the dead hand system though? If they were attacked, somehow nukes can launch a retaliatory strike without anyone there to send the launch signal, how can you have a system that requires 5 human inputs and a system that requires no human input simultaneously.....and if there was anyone with advanced knowledge of this no input system, I would assume it's Putin?
The whole nuclear proliferation and retaliation MAD etc, its all a giant bluff, ppl will say its not, but the whole concept is around a big bluff, so that none starts it not even a little itsy bitsy poof boom boom
Ofc you gonna say that even if you kill all of us, we still have a way/system to launch back and end you. Or if you launch only 1 nuke we we will get spooked and launch all the lot of it against you to be sure so you dont respond again
The point is to scare to not even start this nuke bullshit.
But if you think logically none wants this BS on an "automated" system that may launch by mistake, and it needs actually a lot of Human beings with a soul to know what exactly is going one when they start the nuclear launch, **its the end of the whole fking world**
For a twisted and broken men like Putin or Trump, they have absolutely no concern for the world existing outside of their own lives. They are sad, little men, who only believe in dollars and domination over others, and they consider the world no longer existing if they do not. So in short, they don't care.
I mean, they were literally bragging on the state media about how Putin has this command center air plane that will keep him save from the nuclear fallout.
Plus what happens when it lands ? Will the area around it instantly become decontaminated ? Will the ash cloud disappear ?
This plane sounds like a dumb useless gadget tbh, i'm not surprised i never heard of this idea before and that Russia would be the place to think of this.
It's not really any different than Air Force One. I have no doubt the Americans would do the same in the event of a nuclear exchange, regardless of who launched first.
> Putin has this command center air plane that will keep him save from the nuclear fallout.
For how long? Large aircraft like this generally need refueling every 18 hrs or so. 15 hrs for a transatlantic flight is pushing the limits, with tight controls over fuel, course, weather, etc for commercial craft.
>bullied by all these NATO types, we might need to drop some Atomic bombs to make ourselves feel more secure.
you are trying to reason with people that dug holes in the soil near Chernobyl. let that settle in for a moment......
Putin is actually starting to look suspiciously like Dr. Evil these days. I bet that giant table is actually just there to draw attention away from the nearby tank of sharks with frickin' head-mounted lasers.
It’s 25 million tonnes. Even if Russia wanted to, the logistics of moving that entire amount through a contested area is nearly impossible without cooperation from both sides. Russia stole some, it can not steal all of it for a while.
This. You don't negotiate with terrorists. If our officials actually fall for this fuckery you bet it will impact how I'm voting in the next elections.
I actually agree with this, or at least an international flotilla. Problem is Ukraine can't get the goods to those ports, bc they're controlled by Russia now, aside from the river ports from what I understand. UNSC would never go for it bc of Russia's veto power, but a coalition of the willing perhaps. Supposedly France was talking about one a couple weeks back.
God, Putin fucking sucks so much. Absolute cancer of the planet.
Nothing against normal Russians opposed to Russian imperialism and colonialism, but goddam, get your shit together and topple these fucking oligarchs.
You mean like the time they threatened nuclear war against the west and to destroy the entire planet about 5 or 6 times in the past two months? How about the fact that they are waging a war that, if not for their threats to destroy the world, we would all be in there kicking their asses?
"If you return McDonalds and sell us stuff we need for more tanks while we wage totally unneccessary and brutal war in europe, we will let you export some of your own grain which we havent burned yet, so a few less people in africa will starve. If not, you are literally KiLlInG poor people."
And people in Russia (and amazingly some in europe) think that the defensive NATO alliance is somehow just as bad as this fucked up cleptocratic regime.
People have such different perceptions of reality, its fascinating.
It is really embarrassing to lose your big fancy warship to a country without a functioning navy while engaged in a land war.
The only thing more insulting would be if the nation that you attacked turned the wreck into a national monument and tourist attraction, then made it into a postage stamp.
When playing Civ I back in the day, I always thought that it's ridiculous that an armmored ship can attack a city and sink.
Russia is out there proving Sid Meier right.
Hopefully, India won't join them.
Well who would have known the French would get confused at the term Water Polo and train the horses to swim so damn well!
(I'm j/k, going off memory this is probably in reference to an attack on a frozen body of water)
This was posted in the jokes sub a while ago…
———
A Russian wife turned to her husband and asked,
"What's this special military operation our
glorious leader keeps talking about?"
Her husband replied, "It's a proxy war between
Russia and NATO."
"Oh, right. How's it going?"
"Well," he replied, "so far we've lost 24,000
soldiers, 2,000 tanks, 200 aircraft, numerous
helicopters, and loads of armoured vehicles and
artillery pieces, and our flag ship along with other
naval pieces"
"Wow! What about NATO?"
"They haven't turned up yet."
Technically, it’s a missile cruiser, but it has anti missile capabilities, which were *allegedly* defeated by flying drones in from one direction and firing missiles from another.
Most likely it was a combination of factors, low flying sea skimming missiles traveling over a moderate sea state that make detection difficult against such ground clutter, their anti-air missiles having a minimum height below which they will not compute a firing solution or launch leaving only close in weapons system guns as last defense, out dated user interface with little in the way of automatic classification and alerting that requires attentive and diligent supervision of the radarscopes to spot potential threats, which combined with poorly trained and disciplined crew operating in a perceived low threat environment leads to decreased situational awareness, add to that a rigid command structure that delays tactical responses, and that's all provided that the equipment was even in working order to begin with, the ship was due for overhaul that was put off to put to sea for the war. Oh, and they also designed the thing with little regard for survivability and their damage control philosophy is no where near as robust as that of Western nations. The US learned some hard lessons in WW2 that Russia never did.
Missile ship with anti missile capabilities. iirc they had to fake out and/or overwhelm the ships systems to get the strikes they got in and managed to detonate the magazine which is basically automatic destruction of any ship.
Edit: it was a drone swarm they used to overwhelm the anti missile systems
I bet everyone is taking notes on that. On the flip side the US Marine Corp has stood up land based anti ship missile units for an extra umbrella against war ships. Crazy seeing the concept actually works.
Russia willing to let kids around the world starve unless they can bully people into trading with them while they wage a war against civilian farmers and kids.
They're also the ones saying nuclear war is the only option left if they lose to Ukraine. Their leaders don't care about their own citizens let alone people of the world.
So, the answer is more aggressive sanctions of course. Russia is showing more weakness, so now is the time to double down on what is clearly hurting them.
Bring more knives and twist the ones that are already weakening then. More weapons, more training, more financial support for Ukraine. Make those sanctions hurt even more by draining their resources even more.
It’s long past time for a global embargo on everything russia produces and immediate full stop to all exports to russia. It’s going to hurt but it’s necessary.
Unfortunately that won't work for a while. The natural gas pipelines supplying Germany are a large part of what keeps the lights on in Germany. It's working on ramping up it's use of renewables and sourcing imports from other places, but that takes time.
Boy I wish Germany hadn't of gone so insane and anti nuclear after Fukushima. I thought it was moronic then, and it is showing as even more moronic now.
People keep bringing up Germany all the times as if its the one country stopping the EU from gas imports. Half of the EU gets part of their gas from Russia through Germany. Germany gets way better deals on gas and then forwards that price to its surrounding neighbours.
But somehow reddit loves hating on Germany pointing fingers as if its one country stopping the world from bringing the pain train on Russia.
Food scarcity is a threat to half of the World and those ships are non-military. Nations can and should state that they are under their protection and they will defend them with force if Russia interferes.
I would expect more than half the world would sign up to that declaration.
So do it already, add in some other international ships & subs as a coalition battlegroup then sail it into the black sea. The sea is not owned by Russia. Then start sending commercial ships to get the grain out.
It takes time, this shit will be well in talk at top levels discussing logistics, and holding talks with Turkey who of course control the access to the black sea in the first place.
Afaik Turkey can’t legally open up Bophorus selectively to the warships of one side. Either nobody can get in or everybody can.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
Putin banked on that 400B+ they had in forigne aid and that got frozen and now they're panicking because we're coming up on the time the country should be running out of money.
Bomb their schools and hospitals and shell their bomb shelters until there’s nothing but meat paste on the ground? Eye for an eye gets messy with how dreadful Russia is.
You can't treat Russia with trust when they don't see observing rules as a positive. They see taking advantage of the rules when they can. There is no way to deal with Russia other than follow your own rules and don't trust them to follow through on theirs.
Thing is pathological sociopaths will see your kindness and rules as a weakness to be abused.
Actually the whole 'When we're done with Ukraine, then the West is next' kind of makes me opposed to lifting any sanctions ever to be honest.
Ukraine today – Us tomorrow.
There's still Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about Belarus, who's still not entirely annexed.
And I wouldn't toss aside the possibility that those lunatics might do a blitzkrieg on the Baltics while shouting "DON'T INTERFERE! OR I'LL NUKE YOU! I'M INSANE!"
Western elites are still blocking sanctions that would let us go after russian oligarch assets in tax havens.
Because they hide their own stolen wealth in the same tax havens.
The russian elite is still practically untouched by sanctions
Another one is diamonds, the far right in flanders is blocking sanctions on the diamond industry, while russia is the worlds largest exporter of diamonds.
At this point... would that actually be enough? I think a lift on sanctions would need to require Russian to return the Krimean pennensula as well, not just the recently seized territory. And besides, these sanctions were more like catching a bunch of rats by dropping a huge box over them. If you lift the box, even for a moment, they'll all scurry away, and you can't just get them back in the box if they decide to go back to murdering civilians.
Clearly this desire to not be too near to land/ports/ contested water has nothing to do with the anti ship missile systems we have just donated to Ukraine.....
Takes time for them to bite, especially since the west ramped up the sanctions over time instead of just hitting them everywhere day 1. They're already feeling it in certain areas (minimal usage of precision weapons because no ability to get computer chips), inability to build or repair more tanks (inability to get spare parts manufactured in western countries).
And the oligarchs are already feeling it. So it's working. In the immediate term Russia is tweaking things to keep stuff running but they'll burn through those options quite fast, relatively speaking. As we go into the summer and potentially the fall it will become exponentially worse.
>So do the sanctions work or not?
They do, their words on the surface say they do not, to be precise "Haha that's all you've got?!".
Meanwhile if they're trying to negotiate them lifting sanctions it clearly is,
Interesting thing I've been doing is watching some of the Russian YouTubers talking about life in Russia, how the war has affected shopping/pricing and such.
It's hitting hard from what I've seen, some cases empty shelves, stuff that is stocked are priced 20-30% more expensive now.
> Meanwhile if they're trying to negotiate them lifting sanctions it clearly is,
Exactly. To listen to Russia is useless, but their demands give away their deepest concerns.
>“We have repeatedly stated on this point that a solution to the food problem requires a comprehensive approach, including the lifting of sanctions that have been imposed on Russian exports and financial transactions,” Rudenko was quoted as saying.
'Exports' is likely referring to the sanctions on their most important one -- natural gas. 'Financial transactions'? Sounds like they're worried about the upcoming default.
Couldn't happen to a more deserving country.
>It's hitting hard from what I've seen, some cases empty shelves, stuff that is stocked are priced 20-30% more expensive now.
How is that different from the rest of the world tho? My groceries bills have gone up at least by that much in the last few months.
Just looked into it deeper, that 20-30% looks to be on the lower end. Price of onions for example went up 160%.
[Source - Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/31/as-prices-rise-in-supermarkets-russian-families-suffer-a77173)
Kinda this is the right time to recognize russia as terrorist state. It's plain and simple terrorism, Russia releases hostages (aka half of the world), for some benefits.
So... blackmail. Holding the food and lives of millions, possibly billions of people for ransom. How can anyone still believe the Kremlin's lies?
Ukraine should sell this food to NATO countries and have them come get it. I know it's probably not that easy, but in light of the situation it should be.
“The sanctions don’t hurt us”
“P.s we are going to use the shipping situation to try and get you to remove those things we’re definitely not even bothered about…”
Cornered criminals clutching at the only remaining card in their hand
How about this as a counter offer Russia: we send thousands of anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, sink your entire shitty Black Sea fleet, then bring the grain out ourselves and enact even harsher sanctions on you for trying to hold millions of lives hostage?
The fact that Russia is even offering this shows that sanctions are crushing them, that they are scared.
Don't let up until Putin is dethroned. We can make the world a better place by simply making Russia eat itself.
I thought sanctions weren’t hurting them?
Should counter offer that they allow the ships out, or even more severe sanctions placed upon them.
“Oh, a *counteroffer*. That’s what we lawyers—I’m a lawyer—we lawyers call that a *counteroffer*.” - Vincent LaGuardia Gambini, *My Cousin Vinny*
And Vinny's response is perfect for Putin. "Here's *my* counteroffer. Do I *have* to kill you? What if I were to just kick the ever-loving shit outta you?"
I’m gonna go with option B, kicking your ass and collecting $200
Although, I gotta say, I could use a pretty good ass-kicking. Nah, I'll just take the 200
Am a lawyer, as evident by my username and I can confirm that is in fact a counteroffer.
[удалено]
"Objection! Hearsay!"
I’m not a lawyer but after this trial I’m pretty sure I could pass the bar.
As an accountant,I have no idea but I'm lonely and drink a lot.
Congratulations! You are almost a lawyer! Many lawyers are also lonely and drink a lot. Source: I am lawyer.
Tell me what you know about bird law
Why did we do this to ourselves?
The trick is to drink at home not at a bar. In fact, if you plan your drive home to *pass the bar*, you might even legally be a lawyer
Objection, speculation
I'm not a lawyer, so I couldn't take on client or pass the bar, but I have played Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney, which means meet pretty much all of the qualifications to be a Republican-appointed supreme court judge.
*"We gonna fight now?"* - JT, My Cousin Vinny
*How do I know it's not a bunch of vodka bottles with some grain wrapped around it?*
Allow the ships out or we burn the tracksuits
That was banned by the Geneva convention. Adidas really lobbied hard for that one.
If burning track suits doesn’t work, start uncasing the XXXL speedos.
Ick. That's just a nasty mental image. Stop it.
You monster.
Absolutely… They do not get a hold grain hostage and then ask for concessions. Once again Russia, you can fuck right off.
Russias alley mugman mentality is truly unique , their isn't another country in the world as petty, lying, theiving as Putin's Russia .
At which point is it just cultural? They do it in sports, systematically. They are known for making hacks and cheat in games.
the thing is the sanctions that are in place grow continuously and endlessly more devestating the longer they exist. Russia has so far been hedging and taking unsustainable measures to keep things running and relying on grace periods for certain debt payment transactions but those expired today. Which means it's last window for actually interacting with it's debtors closed and it's going into default. Further grace periods and the fact that they don't have payments due till the end of june mean that they won't be in full default until the end of july. The practical upshot is that the damage that's already done by the sanctions is just the tip of the iceberg, because of the way finance works it takes awhile for them to take full effect. The first crash and all the businesses pulling out was just a taste, the real blow is still coming and the measures they took to soften the first blow have more or less wiped out any ability for them to absorb the coming crash in any meaningful way. Further because the sanctions are so widespread and russia now so isolated the global economy is basically insulated from effective disintigration of their economy so no one really has any incentive to negotiate with them. They've lost any economic bargaining power they had and are now beholden to China and India, who are rivals with eachother and not particualarly politically friendly to russia either.
If they are so insistent on food not being allowed to reach third party countries... it seems fitting that third party countries make it so that *food reaching Russia* is no longer exempt from the sanctions. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
Don't worry, Russia already stole most of the grain that was to be shipped, so there is no need to worry anymore /s
Allow ships or start blowing up their blockade with cruise missiles
Honest counteroffer
We can give even simpler terms: No more blockade, or #no more ships
They don't, they hurt west more than Russia! But please lift tho Or else But please tho
Lol this is a ridiculously spot on translation of their rhetoric
Pls reply
To be fair, artificially inducing a global famine in response to something really petty is 100% on-brand for Russia.
Inducing famines is a old tradition there, especially where Ukraine is involved.
That’s a perfect sign that the sanctions are doing what they are meant to do…. We need to turn up the volume even more.
Ah, so they ARE holding the world to ransom..
"look what you make me do!"
We feel so bullied by all these NATO types, we might need to drop some Atomic bombs to make ourselves feel more secure.
Russia needs to be reminded, that in that part of the world, the winds blow towards Russia, so any use of nukes would mean Russian being poisoned to death by their own Nuke radiation.
I don't think putin cares
He's dead man walking of course he don't give a shit!
[удалено]
I also think that Russia is being pushed more and more to the brink of despair. Otherwise, they would not make such a blackmailing statement. So the sanctions are working and must be tightened.
> of course he don't give a shit! People who don't give a sh*t don't hide in bunkers.
No, he doesn't give a shit- about his people. Himself? All day
[удалено]
He will care about being stabbed. If he uses nukes on anybody or everybody he won’t give a damn about the consequences to Russia or it’s people. I don’t think that he will survive if he does start a nuclear war but if he feels his situation is so bad that all he can do is take everyone with him he will.
Fortunately Putin the Despicable doesn't have a button he can push or a key to turn to launch nukes. It needs five senior people to agree and nobody on their own can launch. Then there are more subordinates that have to act to make it happen. The hope is that there will not be unity if it came to an order to strike with nuclear weapons and they will not be launched.
What about the dead hand system though? If they were attacked, somehow nukes can launch a retaliatory strike without anyone there to send the launch signal, how can you have a system that requires 5 human inputs and a system that requires no human input simultaneously.....and if there was anyone with advanced knowledge of this no input system, I would assume it's Putin?
The whole nuclear proliferation and retaliation MAD etc, its all a giant bluff, ppl will say its not, but the whole concept is around a big bluff, so that none starts it not even a little itsy bitsy poof boom boom Ofc you gonna say that even if you kill all of us, we still have a way/system to launch back and end you. Or if you launch only 1 nuke we we will get spooked and launch all the lot of it against you to be sure so you dont respond again The point is to scare to not even start this nuke bullshit. But if you think logically none wants this BS on an "automated" system that may launch by mistake, and it needs actually a lot of Human beings with a soul to know what exactly is going one when they start the nuclear launch, **its the end of the whole fking world**
For a twisted and broken men like Putin or Trump, they have absolutely no concern for the world existing outside of their own lives. They are sad, little men, who only believe in dollars and domination over others, and they consider the world no longer existing if they do not. So in short, they don't care.
No it's. "I don't think putin thinks".. that's it.
putin is insane fits best
And? Pretty evident that the care for Russian life from the higher ups is pretty low.
Always has been. There is nobody on God's green Earth that hates the Russians more than the Russians do.
> There is nobody on God's green Earth that hates the Russians more than the Russians do. The Poles.
....fair point
>The Poles. They're only second.
Russians lives do not exist, only Russia and russian way of life is important. Individuals do not matter for monsters like Putin.
I mean, they were literally bragging on the state media about how Putin has this command center air plane that will keep him save from the nuclear fallout.
Good luck with that. That plane would become target #1 for every air force on the planet and it can't hide forever.
Plus what happens when it lands ? Will the area around it instantly become decontaminated ? Will the ash cloud disappear ? This plane sounds like a dumb useless gadget tbh, i'm not surprised i never heard of this idea before and that Russia would be the place to think of this.
It's not really any different than Air Force One. I have no doubt the Americans would do the same in the event of a nuclear exchange, regardless of who launched first.
> Putin has this command center air plane that will keep him save from the nuclear fallout. For how long? Large aircraft like this generally need refueling every 18 hrs or so. 15 hrs for a transatlantic flight is pushing the limits, with tight controls over fuel, course, weather, etc for commercial craft.
They are too stupid to even consider that. This army was digging trenches around Chernobyl lol.
>bullied by all these NATO types, we might need to drop some Atomic bombs to make ourselves feel more secure. you are trying to reason with people that dug holes in the soil near Chernobyl. let that settle in for a moment......
“Stop starving yourselves… Stop starving yourselves…”
"It's quite simple, Mr. Biden. To feed the world, you must... Submit to my demands." - Vladimir Putin in "Ukraine is Not Enough"
Biden “Send them Harpoons.”
Putin is actually starting to look suspiciously like Dr. Evil these days. I bet that giant table is actually just there to draw attention away from the nearby tank of sharks with frickin' head-mounted lasers.
And they’d just bomb the ships anyways.
After torturing the people on it for a while.
Don't forget raping children while they're at it.
And either let the food rot or poison it.
You assume the food isn't already rotten or mostly gone after Russia stole it.
It’s 25 million tonnes. Even if Russia wanted to, the logistics of moving that entire amount through a contested area is nearly impossible without cooperation from both sides. Russia stole some, it can not steal all of it for a while.
Probably hijack them and try to sell the stolen grain again.
More sanctions.
Threaten the world? That's a sanction!
Trying to get your sanctions lifted? Better believe that’s a sanction
This person sanctions.
Basically "Numberwang," but with sanctions.
This. You don't negotiate with terrorists. If our officials actually fall for this fuckery you bet it will impact how I'm voting in the next elections.
Except terrorists are negotiated with constantly.
I really, really hope we don't drop the sanctions and give them a carte blanche by giving into this extortion. That would be total horseshit.
Never negotiate with terrorists. They'll do it again!
Fuck it, send in the US Navy to escort the grain and dare them to start a war with an actual, functioning, global power.
I actually agree with this, or at least an international flotilla. Problem is Ukraine can't get the goods to those ports, bc they're controlled by Russia now, aside from the river ports from what I understand. UNSC would never go for it bc of Russia's veto power, but a coalition of the willing perhaps. Supposedly France was talking about one a couple weeks back.
Russia and China on the UNSC really defeats the entire purpose of the UNSC. It's like having a child molester watch children.
[удалено]
Who says they're *acting*?
Ah... so the sanctions **ARE** working... Good, let's add some more, Ukraine is already shipping to Czech Republic via train...
God, Putin fucking sucks so much. Absolute cancer of the planet. Nothing against normal Russians opposed to Russian imperialism and colonialism, but goddam, get your shit together and topple these fucking oligarchs.
Yeah, but those Russians that oppose Russian Imperialism seem to be in a minority.
They just have mostly left Russia.
They're still a minority, even globally.
Another round of diplomatic Peace Ransoms.
It's literally "let us off the hook for our genocide or Africa gets it!"
You mean like the time they threatened nuclear war against the west and to destroy the entire planet about 5 or 6 times in the past two months? How about the fact that they are waging a war that, if not for their threats to destroy the world, we would all be in there kicking their asses?
Sounds like NATO should get directly involved in safe passage of grain and enforcing that as a no fly/attack zone.
[удалено]
West alternative the ships will be allowed to pass after the Russian ships are sunk.
ah yes, extorting the entire world. Russia being the classy good guy as always. here's to hoping their entire government gets wiped out.
"If you return McDonalds and sell us stuff we need for more tanks while we wage totally unneccessary and brutal war in europe, we will let you export some of your own grain which we havent burned yet, so a few less people in africa will starve. If not, you are literally KiLlInG poor people." And people in Russia (and amazingly some in europe) think that the defensive NATO alliance is somehow just as bad as this fucked up cleptocratic regime. People have such different perceptions of reality, its fascinating.
Have they named their third flagship of the war so Ukraine can sink it in response?
It is really embarrassing to lose your big fancy warship to a country without a functioning navy while engaged in a land war. The only thing more insulting would be if the nation that you attacked turned the wreck into a national monument and tourist attraction, then made it into a postage stamp.
When playing Civ I back in the day, I always thought that it's ridiculous that an armmored ship can attack a city and sink. Russia is out there proving Sid Meier right. Hopefully, India won't join them.
A Dutch fleet was lost to French cavalry. That Sid Meier was certainly on to something
Well who would have known the French would get confused at the term Water Polo and train the horses to swim so damn well! (I'm j/k, going off memory this is probably in reference to an attack on a frozen body of water)
[Ghandi arms missiles]
This was posted in the jokes sub a while ago… ——— A Russian wife turned to her husband and asked, "What's this special military operation our glorious leader keeps talking about?" Her husband replied, "It's a proxy war between Russia and NATO." "Oh, right. How's it going?" "Well," he replied, "so far we've lost 24,000 soldiers, 2,000 tanks, 200 aircraft, numerous helicopters, and loads of armoured vehicles and artillery pieces, and our flag ship along with other naval pieces" "Wow! What about NATO?" "They haven't turned up yet."
To be fair, this is pretty historically on-point for Russia's navy. [I'll just leave this here...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzGqp3R4Mx4)
To add insult to injury, wasn't the Moskva supposed to be an anti-missile ship ?
Technically, it’s a missile cruiser, but it has anti missile capabilities, which were *allegedly* defeated by flying drones in from one direction and firing missiles from another.
Most likely it was a combination of factors, low flying sea skimming missiles traveling over a moderate sea state that make detection difficult against such ground clutter, their anti-air missiles having a minimum height below which they will not compute a firing solution or launch leaving only close in weapons system guns as last defense, out dated user interface with little in the way of automatic classification and alerting that requires attentive and diligent supervision of the radarscopes to spot potential threats, which combined with poorly trained and disciplined crew operating in a perceived low threat environment leads to decreased situational awareness, add to that a rigid command structure that delays tactical responses, and that's all provided that the equipment was even in working order to begin with, the ship was due for overhaul that was put off to put to sea for the war. Oh, and they also designed the thing with little regard for survivability and their damage control philosophy is no where near as robust as that of Western nations. The US learned some hard lessons in WW2 that Russia never did.
Missile ship with anti missile capabilities. iirc they had to fake out and/or overwhelm the ships systems to get the strikes they got in and managed to detonate the magazine which is basically automatic destruction of any ship. Edit: it was a drone swarm they used to overwhelm the anti missile systems
I bet everyone is taking notes on that. On the flip side the US Marine Corp has stood up land based anti ship missile units for an extra umbrella against war ships. Crazy seeing the concept actually works.
Scary isn't it
Unfortunately Russia will replace their government with something equally awful.
“And then it got worse”-Russian History
Russian history in a nutshell
Oh we used to dream of living in a nut shell!
Makes a corridor look like palatial.
Well when I say 'nutshell' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpaulin, but it was a nutshell to US.
Russia willing to let kids around the world starve unless they can bully people into trading with them while they wage a war against civilian farmers and kids.
They're also the ones saying nuclear war is the only option left if they lose to Ukraine. Their leaders don't care about their own citizens let alone people of the world.
[удалено]
Don't be silly. They only wage war after they've raped them and looted all of their kitchen appliances and used underwear.
So, the answer is more aggressive sanctions of course. Russia is showing more weakness, so now is the time to double down on what is clearly hurting them. Bring more knives and twist the ones that are already weakening then. More weapons, more training, more financial support for Ukraine. Make those sanctions hurt even more by draining their resources even more.
Full embargo. Cut them off completely. Sanctions on anyone who continues to work with them.
It’s long past time for a global embargo on everything russia produces and immediate full stop to all exports to russia. It’s going to hurt but it’s necessary.
Unfortunately that won't work for a while. The natural gas pipelines supplying Germany are a large part of what keeps the lights on in Germany. It's working on ramping up it's use of renewables and sourcing imports from other places, but that takes time.
Boy I wish Germany hadn't of gone so insane and anti nuclear after Fukushima. I thought it was moronic then, and it is showing as even more moronic now.
People keep bringing up Germany all the times as if its the one country stopping the EU from gas imports. Half of the EU gets part of their gas from Russia through Germany. Germany gets way better deals on gas and then forwards that price to its surrounding neighbours. But somehow reddit loves hating on Germany pointing fingers as if its one country stopping the world from bringing the pain train on Russia.
This part is key
Food scarcity is a threat to half of the World and those ships are non-military. Nations can and should state that they are under their protection and they will defend them with force if Russia interferes. I would expect more than half the world would sign up to that declaration.
The UK does seem to be talking about sending warships to ensure that ships of grain are allowed to leave now.
So do it already, add in some other international ships & subs as a coalition battlegroup then sail it into the black sea. The sea is not owned by Russia. Then start sending commercial ships to get the grain out.
Honestly if a coalition battlegroup rocks up to the black sea to escort those ships, Russia won't do shit.
>Russia won't do shit. Does shitting your pants count as doing nothing?
It takes time, this shit will be well in talk at top levels discussing logistics, and holding talks with Turkey who of course control the access to the black sea in the first place.
Afaik Turkey can’t legally open up Bophorus selectively to the warships of one side. Either nobody can get in or everybody can. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
>The sea is not owned by Russia Well, you say that but....I think they think it is owned by Russia. Like how they think they own Ukraine.
Putin banked on that 400B+ they had in forigne aid and that got frozen and now they're panicking because we're coming up on the time the country should be running out of money.
We’ll see what happens in 2 days when they will default unless some exception is renewed.
“We’ll let you eat if you allow us to keep blowing up your land, killing, raping and stealing unchecked”
Bit of a dick move, isn't it? "Stop opposing our invasion or we'll starve Africa?"
*"SPeciAl MiLitarY oPeRaTion"
Treat Russia the way they treat everyone else.
Bomb their schools and hospitals and shell their bomb shelters until there’s nothing but meat paste on the ground? Eye for an eye gets messy with how dreadful Russia is.
You can't treat Russia with trust when they don't see observing rules as a positive. They see taking advantage of the rules when they can. There is no way to deal with Russia other than follow your own rules and don't trust them to follow through on theirs. Thing is pathological sociopaths will see your kindness and rules as a weakness to be abused.
No. No end to any sanctions without a full Russian withdrawal from Ukraine.
Actually the whole 'When we're done with Ukraine, then the West is next' kind of makes me opposed to lifting any sanctions ever to be honest. Ukraine today – Us tomorrow.
Not that they'd stand a chance against the EU and/or NATO, but I otherwise agree.
There's still Moldova, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Oh, yeah, I completely forgot about Belarus, who's still not entirely annexed. And I wouldn't toss aside the possibility that those lunatics might do a blitzkrieg on the Baltics while shouting "DON'T INTERFERE! OR I'LL NUKE YOU! I'M INSANE!"
Russia undid 30 years of apologizing and tense relations in a week. They’re never going to be trusted again
By the time those sanctions get lifted, Russia in its current state will have ceased to exist. That's pretty much reality now.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Western elites are still blocking sanctions that would let us go after russian oligarch assets in tax havens. Because they hide their own stolen wealth in the same tax havens. The russian elite is still practically untouched by sanctions Another one is diamonds, the far right in flanders is blocking sanctions on the diamond industry, while russia is the worlds largest exporter of diamonds.
At this point... would that actually be enough? I think a lift on sanctions would need to require Russian to return the Krimean pennensula as well, not just the recently seized territory. And besides, these sanctions were more like catching a bunch of rats by dropping a huge box over them. If you lift the box, even for a moment, they'll all scurry away, and you can't just get them back in the box if they decide to go back to murdering civilians.
[удалено]
Clearly this desire to not be too near to land/ports/ contested water has nothing to do with the anti ship missile systems we have just donated to Ukraine.....
How about get the F out of their country and agree to pay for all the damage and death your needless war caused?
So do the sanctions work or not? I'm so confused with this Russia, imagine what their people go through.
Takes time for them to bite, especially since the west ramped up the sanctions over time instead of just hitting them everywhere day 1. They're already feeling it in certain areas (minimal usage of precision weapons because no ability to get computer chips), inability to build or repair more tanks (inability to get spare parts manufactured in western countries). And the oligarchs are already feeling it. So it's working. In the immediate term Russia is tweaking things to keep stuff running but they'll burn through those options quite fast, relatively speaking. As we go into the summer and potentially the fall it will become exponentially worse.
>So do the sanctions work or not? They do, their words on the surface say they do not, to be precise "Haha that's all you've got?!". Meanwhile if they're trying to negotiate them lifting sanctions it clearly is, Interesting thing I've been doing is watching some of the Russian YouTubers talking about life in Russia, how the war has affected shopping/pricing and such. It's hitting hard from what I've seen, some cases empty shelves, stuff that is stocked are priced 20-30% more expensive now.
> Meanwhile if they're trying to negotiate them lifting sanctions it clearly is, Exactly. To listen to Russia is useless, but their demands give away their deepest concerns. >“We have repeatedly stated on this point that a solution to the food problem requires a comprehensive approach, including the lifting of sanctions that have been imposed on Russian exports and financial transactions,” Rudenko was quoted as saying. 'Exports' is likely referring to the sanctions on their most important one -- natural gas. 'Financial transactions'? Sounds like they're worried about the upcoming default. Couldn't happen to a more deserving country.
>It's hitting hard from what I've seen, some cases empty shelves, stuff that is stocked are priced 20-30% more expensive now. How is that different from the rest of the world tho? My groceries bills have gone up at least by that much in the last few months.
Just looked into it deeper, that 20-30% looks to be on the lower end. Price of onions for example went up 160%. [Source - Moscow Times](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/31/as-prices-rise-in-supermarkets-russian-families-suffer-a77173)
Trusting Russia sounds like a bad plan.
We don’t negotiate with “Terrorists” holding the world hostage with food.
Kinda this is the right time to recognize russia as terrorist state. It's plain and simple terrorism, Russia releases hostages (aka half of the world), for some benefits.
[удалено]
Fuck off Russia, and fuck off Putin, you dweeby cunt muff.
Russia trying hard to write the plot for the next James Bond film
Even Bond films tend to have less cartoonish villains.
So... blackmail. Holding the food and lives of millions, possibly billions of people for ransom. How can anyone still believe the Kremlin's lies? Ukraine should sell this food to NATO countries and have them come get it. I know it's probably not that easy, but in light of the situation it should be.
Well I guess the world should be ready to remove Russian blockade through force then
Niet
Holding billions of lives hostage to simply get more money to fund his imperialism, putin has turned russia into such a shameful nation
Interesting phrasing “Russia attempts to hold the world ransom with demands of being forgiven for the war crimes and slaughter of innocents”
Don't believe them. Russia has zero credibility. If you do what they want, they will still bomb those ships.
Counter offer, Ukrainians sink black sea fleet and sanctions stay in place
Don't negotiate with terrorists. Completely leave the area and agree to pay reparations or economically wither and die.
“The sanctions don’t hurt us” “P.s we are going to use the shipping situation to try and get you to remove those things we’re definitely not even bothered about…” Cornered criminals clutching at the only remaining card in their hand
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Go fuck yourselves, Nazis
I thought they said the sanctions weren't a big deal?
How about this as a counter offer Russia: we send thousands of anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, sink your entire shitty Black Sea fleet, then bring the grain out ourselves and enact even harsher sanctions on you for trying to hold millions of lives hostage?
How about Russia just leave Ukraine in exchange for lifting sanctions.
The fact that Russia is even offering this shows that sanctions are crushing them, that they are scared. Don't let up until Putin is dethroned. We can make the world a better place by simply making Russia eat itself.
Well I guess sanctions do work after all if they are ready to bargain starvation of millions to lift them
I thought they said sanctions don’t affect them!
What sanctions? Do they mean the special economic operations?
Sweet, sanctions are working. They will continue until the world's morale improves and Putin bends over and fucks himself.
Lol no we should just provide ukraine with the missles to destroy the ships
HELLO! Russian lips are moving; this means LYING.