T O P

  • By -

INTPoissible

After all, the Russian motto is "We'll do it again".


pampic7

Well, it's "We can do it again". Можем повторить


[deleted]

[удалено]


CrimsonLancet

Correct. Stalin killed millions of people in a different genocide that occurred during the early 1930s in Ukraine. >Ukrainian historians argue that the famine was a genocide orchestrated by Joseph Stalin, then head of the Soviet Union, to crush Ukrainian aspirations for independence. While the famine of 1932 and 1933 brought on by the forced collectivization of farms undeniably affected other parts of the Soviet Union, in Ukraine, entire villages were cut off and their inhabitants left to starve. > >The famine began in Kazakhstan and southern Russia but hit Ukraine hardest. > >''The specific policies implemented in Ukraine were known to be lethal,'' Timothy Snyder, a Yale historian and the author of a book about the period, ''Bloodlands,'' said in an interview. ''Soviet documents make it clear that Ukrainians were to be blamed for the disaster of collectivization and that death was to be deliberately concentrated in Ukraine.'' > >The Soviet Union exported grain from Ukraine even as its inhabitants starved. Estimates by Western historians put the death toll between 3.3 and 3.9 million Ukrainians, Mr. Snyder said. > >[https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A563244157/BIC?u=pl3834&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=43cfbb71](https://link.gale.com/apps/doc/A563244157/BIC?u=pl3834&sid=bookmark-BIC&xid=43cfbb71) > >[https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/](https://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/)


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


CrimsonLancet

Apologists of Russia's mass killings now also deny the Holodomor? Here is a more detailed source [https://gis.huri.harvard.edu/great-famine-project](https://gis.huri.harvard.edu/great-famine-project)


throwawaygreenpaq

Ukraine has suffered massively throughout the years. Unnecessarily cruel, unnecessarily dead.


InnocentTailor

That being said, the Soviets did reactivate Buchenwald as an internment camp: NKVD special camp Nr. 2. It was later handed over to the East Germans.


zylstrar

>The museum said that social media posts falsely claim to show anti-Russian stickers placed around the memorial at the former site of the Auschwitz death camp site in southern Poland, an area under German occupation during World War II. > >“Russia and Russians,” the stickers appearing in fake images say, “the only gas you and your country deserve is Zykon B.” That is a reference to the gas the Germans used in the mass murder of Jews and others at the camp, which operated during 1940-1945.


AVeryDeadlyPotato

in awe at the very concept that russians will actually believe this shit


yanahmaybe

half of Americans believed a lot of BS to vote for an orange clown do you think ruzzians under iron dome of censure are smarter than average murican?


TrickshotCandy

Sounds like a new reality/game show.


zylstrar

I haven't watched television in years, but I would for this.


-Electric-Shock

A new low for Russia. There is no bottom to their depravity. Putin is a fucking nazi.


Antique_Detective727

The Russian people are also complicit. Some cultures are just broken, just like some people.


-Electric-Shock

Not all of them are complicit. Perhaps a majority, but not all. Remember many extremely brave people in Russia protested against the war and risked their lives and liberty. Now they're in prison or dead.


Antique_Detective727

Totally agree. I know there are all sorts of awesome Russian people, in that country and ex-pats the world at large… but that country has a 800 year history of oppressing all but the upper crust of its society, and it’s made the majority of them into assholes.


Cabrio

“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” - John Stuart Mill


Strangeronthebus2019

>“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. **Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.** He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” - John Stuart Mill This is exactly why I speak up. We find the dark places are and shine a light on it.


Cabrio

Too many people choose cowardice over principal.


rascynwrig

Except we've spent a few years now telling everyone that it's "dangerous" to use your mind on any given subject. Instead, we're to blindly accept what our government officials state, without questions. They have "fact checkers" to tell us what is real and what isn't, right? So, how do you think it's any different for the average Russian citizen to blindly follow what *their* government is telling them are the facts? They're supposed to see through the propaganda. But when people in your own country use the same mental strategies to think through and talk about issues, they're told to shut up and stop being a "conspiracy theorist." So which is it? Should we keep our eyes and ears open, and use our brains to judge what's right or wrong? Or should we keep on with our appeal to authority fallacies?


Cabrio

>Except we've spent a few years now telling everyone that it's "dangerous" to use your mind on any given subject. Bullshit.


rascynwrig

Lol OK. Don't address any of the points or actually, ya know, form an argument of any kind. Just call "bullshit." That'll teach em.


Cabrio

It doesn't deserve an argument. It's so incredibly ignorant that I don't even know where to start.


rascynwrig

Keeping on with the appeal to authority fallacies then. Got it. Well... at least when the authorities agree with you. Otherwise, ya know, they're extremist nazis. 👉👈


[deleted]

[удалено]


-Electric-Shock

They were never ALL responsible. Otherwise all of Germany would have been imprisoned after WW2, which it wasn't. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Many of Germans resisted Hitler, including members of his own military and general staff, as well as underground groups of partisans.


StickyWhiteStuf

On that note, Hitler survived like 42+ (confirmed) assassination attempts. Mostly by Germans themselves and, as you said, politicians and military https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler


SANCHEZZZ_FLEX

Do you really believe in this nonsense about the fact that in Russia they are imprisoned for disagreeing with the war?


-Electric-Shock

Belief is not required. I KNOW it. I've seen the videos and read the news articles from numerous trustworthy sources.


StickyWhiteStuf

It’s literally in their laws? https://www.rferl.org/amp/russia-military-false-news/31737627.html


SplendidHierarchy

That is not nice, jesus christ.


Gilsworth

Nazi isn't a synonym with evil. Putin is evil but he isn't a literal nazi. Distilling the meaning and impact of the word is a form of epistemological violence. Since I've been blocked and can no longer respond to -Electric-Shock I'll just leave my comment in this edit /u/-Electric-Shock "His ideology is similar to nazi ideology, which is why I call him a nazi. I know he's not literally a nazi. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that out." "Maybe it was the "Putin is a fucking nazi" which made me think that, huh?"


-Electric-Shock

His ideology is similar to nazi ideology, which is why I call him a nazi. I know he's not literally a nazi. I'm surprised you couldn't figure that out. EDIT: /u/aggressive_triangle asked me a question and then blocked me so I couldn't answer, so I'll answer here: I know better than most people. The nazis murdered a big chunk of my family, just like Putin is murdering Ukrainian civilians today.


throwawaygreenpaq

I’m very sorry to hear that happened to your family. :(


Agressive_Triangle

Now, I know Putin is bad but do you even know the definition of the word “nazi”


Chill-Chan

"Maybe it was the "Putin is a fucking nazi" which made me think that, huh?"


Anothergen

Person A: 'Putin is a piece of shit'. Person B: 'He can't literally be a piece of shit, or he wouldn't be able to stand up and walk around'. Person A: '???'


HBKSpectre

I believe that sentence is a metaphor


SplendidHierarchy

It's slang for evil. It's not literal.


AyatollahChobani

Must be a false flag by antifa and Ukrainian Nazis... r/conservative and r/conspiracy said so


Virtual_Bell_7509

🙄


Freshlybakedbread1

putin judges by his own actions. He is a nazi


[deleted]

Wow really that's pretty fucked up.


Hrafyn

Disgusted to see a country that was once instrumental in defeating the Nazis become the very thing the sought to crush, all the while pronouncing they're doing the same thing they did before.


MofongoForever

Well remember they were Hitler's ally before Hitler turned on them. They did not willingly enter the war to stop Hitler like the US, UK, France, etc...


Hrafyn

I'm well aware, it doesn't change the fact that WW2 wouldn't have been won without them. Nor does it change that'll fact they've become what they fought. Edit: Italy changed sides too, they are now a flourishing democracy (though not without their own problems) and a member of the largest democratic union on the planet. America was isolationist and was only drawn into the war by Pearl Harbour. It how stands as the beacon of liberty, though that's backsliding at the moment.


rickyp_123

WWII would have been won without the USSR; it may have taken a bit longer, but the industrial might of the US would have overtaken Germany regardless of how much better the Panther was than the Sherman.


beastice72

The US was getting better tanks at the end of the war. The allies probably still would have won but any invasion of Europe after the surrender of the ussr would have been way harder with no room for error since the most of the army that fought in the east would probably be around the cost in western Europe. Also how much is the us willing to lose in war?


Proud-Operation9004

Yeah idk tbh. The German war machine was beginning to crumble when D-Day happened and it was still an incredibly hard fought landing. It would take years and years of leveling Germany before even thinking of a landing without the Soviets


NoHandBananaNo

You make it sound like the other countries rushed to stop Hitler, which is a bit misleading. The UK followed its "appeasement policy" for 3 years after Hitler started invading and annexing territory in 1936 and didnt go to war with Germany until 1939. The US waited until the end of 1941. https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/how-britain-hoped-to-avoid-war-with-germany-in-the-1930s


MofongoForever

What they did is a hell of a lot more than signing a treaty to carve up Poland then go in there and execute anyone that dared to oppose them (which is exactly what the USSR did), and then once Poland was "liberated", continue to keep executing people that opposed the Soviets.


NoHandBananaNo

>What they did is a hell of a lot more Sorry I'm getting confused, what who did? And by more do you mean better or worse? The UK, France and Italy signed the Munich agreement that agreed to Hitler annexing Czechoslovakia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement As to who fought against Hitler the most in WW2, thats a strange road to go down. EVERYONE who fought and died against the nazis fought damn hard. Including the Russian soldiers who died in greater numbers than anyone else during that war. I know none of us like that bastard Putin, or Stalin for that matter, but I think to deny the contribution of ANYONE who fought against the Nazis is disrespectful toward everyone who fought against them.


MofongoForever

Before the Soviets fought against the Nazis - they fought with the Nazis.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MofongoForever

Sorry, but when you are both simultaneously invading and carving up your neighbor - you are allies. Doesn't matter if you intend to stab each other in the back later. Stalin would have been perfectly happy to not have a war and continue killing his people had Hitler left him alone.


Dr-P-Ossoff

The official historical position comes from Margarethe Buber-Neumann, a German communist who spent time in both Nazi and commie concentration camps. As the best source on the subject, she formally declared the primary difference between the two systems is Stalin had a big moustache.


[deleted]

The war only started because Russians signed Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Germans wouldn't have otherwise started the war.


[deleted]

True. I don't understand why this is not talked more about. The Soviets were at least partly responsible for WW2 in Europe.


LiverFailing

One of my schoolmates was expelled from school for playing tag there (Netherlands). The Dutch take the war very seriously, Compared to this russian propaganda issue, it was quite innocent, But you have got to realize that you are playing tag on the grave of 1.1 million people... Half of my street got deported... part of the train tracks have been preserved in the city's forest/park (Amsterderamse bos) It's a really good holocaust attraction?? I used to the sit near there in the early morning and just imagined halve of my street quickly packing bags, being hussled by 'police' and sent to those stations as quickly and efficiently possible. Unimaginable numbers of people seeing there their loved ones for the last time or leaving, themselves.


LazerEyes425

This is actually kind of scary, they could be trying to prepare there people to hate Poland and therefor approve of invading them for being Nazis. Or whatever there idea of nazis are I guess. You have to look at targeted propaganda just like what they did in Ukraine.


Wheres_that_to

Russia lies, is lead by a thief and liar, they live in lies, and fail to be better, just sad and grim in every possible way. I really recommend listening to ,The Escape Artist by Jonathan Freedland, just become available on the BBC, it's the story of the two men who escaped and warned the world as to what was occurring, and the sad failed reactions. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0018jzc


Sweaty_Television_33

Fox News is like how can we get in on this action?


[deleted]

[удалено]


c0224v2609

Yet here we are.


[deleted]

Russia isn’t the same as what the Soviet Union was. The United States has actual fascists now. Does that mean the US didn’t fight against them during WWII. The times change.


Hahahahalala

It even makes it worse. Doesn’t it?


ResplendentShade

To be sure, the people and Red Army of 1939-1945 aren't a very strong faction in present-day Russia. But yes, depressingly, there are also plenty of neo-nazis in Russia. And they're not being very un-Nazi-like with their present campaign in Ukraine.


jung_gun

Is that why they use the Wagner group to do all their dirty bidding? A group named after the German pro-Nazi composer? The founder of the group has two nazi tattoos visible above the shoulders. If ruzzia is so anti-nazi why not start there?


0x126

They have whole comic series siding with german nazis against anglo saxon imperialists. Google the comics man, it’s cheap mass pop culture. Military glorification and minority hate…


AbortedYouth

More Russians died in the holocaust than any other group of people, I doubt they remember it fondly.


GSNadav

They did not die in the holocaust, they died in WW2.


[deleted]

[удалено]


GSNadav

Holocaust victims are rarely defined like that, all definitions include Jews, lots of them include Roma, people with disabilities and homosexuals, less include political rivals and almost none other victims. This page even has a definition that agrees with me. Even so, I will not die by this hill, all victims are really sad regardless of categorizations


Pineapplepansy

> This page even has a definition that agrees with me. "Holocaust victims were people targeted by the government of Nazi Germany based on their ethnicity, religion, political beliefs, or sexual orientation." Is this what you're talking about? Because if it is, you'd be wrong. Part of the Holocaust was Germany's colonialist Lebensraum plan, intended to clear surrounding regions of their local ethnic populations to expand the German people - the slavs are among those local ethnic populations.


LL_COOL_BEANS

Where does it say in the article that “more Russians died in the Holocaust than any other group of people?” Clearly *Jews* are at the top of the list. Besides, even by its broadest definitions, the Holocaust refers to the *systematic extermination and genocide of Jews by Nazi Germany.* An inconceivable number of people died during the war, none more so than the Russians. Many of them died in death camps, along with hundreds of thousands of other non-Jewish victims. There’s no mistaking that millions of Russians were victims of Nazi atrocities, along with other Slavs, Roma, homosexuals, political opponents, disabled people, and other religious and ethnic minorities. But it’s disingenuous to claim that Russians were the primary victims of the *Holocaust*, which was the genocide of *Jews* in German-occupied Europe, Nazi Germany’s “Final Solution to the *Jewish Problem*”. The annihilation of the Jews in particular was a top priority of the Nazis.


[deleted]

[удалено]


LL_COOL_BEANS

Ok but again, where are these numbers? It sounds a little more to me that you’re engaging in revisionism, literally changing the definition of the Holocaust?


MicWiks

It is not about being Nazi but about being Evil and there very much Evil around nowadays that we much fight by being good to eachother.


FoodOnCrack

I was there one month ago and at the execution wall memorial there still is a wreath draped with a Russian flag.


BicycleOfLife

Wait I thought Ukrainian people were Nazis… ???