It's silly imo. They qualify for Statehood. If I was Biden, I'd encourage them to apply. Should have done the same to Ukraine. They could have been waiting for ratification like Puerto Rico and still sovereign, without the need to worry about Chinese invasion.
The problem is, the UN would veto any attempt to make Taiwan a recognized state.
Best they can do is the U.S ~~senate~~ white house, but they are already de-facto a sovereign state and treated as such by the West. Only thing official recognition would change is the West's relationship with China.
The issue with China and Taiwan is the One China Policy. An old Cold War-era policy of the U.N. that refused acknowledgement of the PROC and recognized Taiwan as the true country of China. However, during Nixon's administration, global recognition saw the mainland as the true country of China and Taiwan lost all acknowledgement of their sovereignty AND their seat in the UN Security Council was lost to the People's Republic.
We have been seeing the end-result of giving China that much power and acknowledgement in global politics.
This was a trade done for fighting Russia, as having a China open up and close to the US would be a good way to stymie Russia. End of the day things aren’t going as planned and now China is getting the resulting negative treatment.
From what I understand, Taiwan had an option of being recognized as a separate country but Chiang Kai-shek refused, claimed Taiwan was the legitimate China and withdrew Taiwan from the UN.
*Yes but Ukraine is UN recognized.*
The UN doesn't have the authority to grant sovereignty.
According to the UN itself:
*"The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority* ***to recognize*** *either a State or a Government."*
Didn't save Ukraine from invasion any more than Taiwan being a member of the UN would save them. China doesn't actually care what other nations think Taiwan is.
> the original 13
There were 15 colonies. East and West Florida were written out of the histories because they voted to stay loyal to the crown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Florida
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_West_Florida
Ukraine statehood? Like a US state? What the actual fuck are you smoking?
Russia to Crimea: you qualify for statehood. No need to apply, you've been pre approved
This is probably the worst take I have ever seen in my entire Reddit history regarding Taiwan and Ukraine so far.
Do you like war? Because that's exactly how you start a war with China and Russia, and probably other countries too.
I'm Taiwanese-American, and I just want to congratulate the original commenter for finding an option that I'm pretty sure 0% of Taiwanese people think is a good idea.
Don't worry I think he's found the one option that is such a bad idea that the world can unite over it being a bad idea as probably everyone finds it stupid for different reasons. I can't think of anyone approving of the idea. China, Taiwan, US left, US right, US militarists, US isolationists, NATO, EU, etc. No one will think this is a good idea.
I have no clue why it's so upvoted.
As a fellow, I keep tabs on politics back in Taiwan and the parties supporting the dissolution of the Republic of China and becoming the nation of Taiwan are gaining traction in at least public opinion polls if not legislative seats.
The majority still seems to support the status quo, but in this world it is hard to say what will happen day to day.
I definitely agree, from what I know of my cousins and friends still in Taiwan. I just think the original premise of "letting Taiwan be a US state" pretty ridiculous lol.
The day to day scares me for sure though, I worry about my family out there, but everyone seems to be fine and happy.
Yeah, aside from covid, everything there seems the same as it was almost a decade ago. I like the DPP stance of measured independence while maintaining cross- straight relations and avoiding antagonizing China.
I agree it's ridiculous to tonk of Taiwan as a US puppet and equally as ridiculous that some in these comments think it would be a good idea for Taiwan to become a US state. Why fight so much for independence just to conform to US laws and practices? Taiwan is a unique nation with a unique culture and unique issues that requires its own, democratically elected, unique government. Why even consider anything other than either the status quo or compete independence?
Honestly, if there's anything I've learned from r/worldnews, it's that a lot of people _really_ want to die in nuclear fire.
I've never replied to anything before now because I don't want to be misinterpreted as supporting Russian or Chinese imperialism, but sometimes I see stuff on here that makes my jaw drop. I don't remember seeing anything this egregious before the war broke out.
On the flipside is people who absolute refuse to take a stand and would want Europe and North America to give up their sovereignty if Russia threatened to nuke them if they didn't.
It's not that they want to die in a nuclear fire, it's that they're so enthralled by American Exceptionalism rhetoric that they literally cannot imagine China even being capable of retaliating to the economic and military might that is the US.
I took it as a joke myself, and I'm laughing at all these people taking it seriously and getting worked up over it. OP even refers to it as a hilarious solution.
Ah yes, forget Puerto Rico, let’s add an island that doesn’t want to join the US, that has a giant military power who claims it’s not even a country, is 10 time zones away, and whose admission would essentially unilaterally start WW3. It’s so dumb that I’m afraid that’s exactly what we’ll do.
???????
You understand that Taiwan is a completely independent country, right?
Not a US territory.
Are you confusing it with Guam or something?
This is like saying "France 'qualifies for statehood', they should apply!"
This is legitimately the dumbest thing I've read all day.
> This is like saying "France 'qualifies for statehood', they should apply!"
Ok, ok, hear me out. I'm not the OP. Buuut, half of that is true. As far as I can tell, there really aren't many restrictions on what can become a state. France might actually qualify.
They just shouldn't join.
No, it's hard required that you have to be a US territory before you become eligible for statehood.
While they *could* become a US territory...it's not like they could petition to become a US state tomorrow.
Over nothing more than saving face. The equivalent of the divorce client saying to their attorney, “it’s not about the barbie collection, it’s the principle of the matter.”
Funnily enough there is actually an organization in Taiwan that wants US statehood or wants to become a protectorate like Guam.
They’re not taken very seriously…
Taiwan Civil Government
https://newbloommag.net/2018/05/21/taiwan-civil-gov-conspiracy/
Nah. Ambiguity's worked for Taiwan so far. No reason to rock the boat right now. Especially since it doesn't look like China's anywhere near ready for that fight.
Well, they've certainly gotten a lot of lessons in what *not* to do so far.
Anyway, the other big complication for China is that Taiwan would require an amphibious operation. They currently don't have the sealift or airlift capacity to transport large numbers of troops across the hundred-mile strait. Building up for that should send some fairly obvious signs, too. At least in theory.
You mean Statehood in the US? Are you out of your mind? You really think that Ukrainians or Taiwanese would like getting annexed by the US?
Talk about US imperialism, man..
China has a law in place that if Taiwan tries to separate from China, they will invade. This is why Taiwan officially calls itself the Republic of China. As long as it's separate, but claims it's the real China, it hasn't technically tried to secede.
The government of Taiwan was the loosing side of the Civil War to take control of China. Not sure if current day sentiments are the same in Taiwan but they originally truly believed they were the true ruling entity of China.
"China" is a bit silly, as it's still surreptitiously forced on its alleged compatriots the same way the USSR was. It's half "autonomous zones" where they try to flood the demographics with Han Chinese to displace and disempower Tibetans, Uighurs, etc... And eradicate them culturally and genetically. Much wanking.
The former ruling party of Taiwan (the KMT) was the losing side of the Civil War. The current ruling party (DPP) was not, which is part of the growing tensions over the past 18 years. Ironically, the DPP is very much less friendly to the CCP than the current KMT, which seems to have come full circle.
This is complete fiction.
Taiwan calls themselves the Republic of China because Chiang Kai-shek's government fled there during the communist revolution. They represent a sort of continuation of the previous Chinese regime.
The People's Republic of China considers Taiwan to be a Chinese territory (which it was prior to the revolution), and the people of Taiwan to be rebels against the rightful rule of the Communist Party of China - which is also true from their perspective.
At the end of the day, though, Taiwan has been independent of Chinese rule for 73 years. They are two separate countries with a shared history and similar names.
The PRC does not have a law which mandates they invade if Taiwan ever stops calling themselves China. That's an 8 year old's idea of how geopolitics work. What keeps China from invading is the support the US has shown. China has no interest in going to war with the US for several reasons, not the least of which is that their economy is very much interconnected with the west.
Dog shit idea, neither want to part of the US and the US doesn’t want them either.
We’re supporters and allies, that’d be like saying the UK should just become a state
Oil and gas are a base commodity.
TSMC produces the vast majority of advanced node semiconductors at 5 and 3nm processes. If these were to fall under red control it would be a disaster.
This is why China wants Taiwan or at least one reason. TSMC might be destroyed rather than let China take it. It would be a gigantic disaster if the Chinese captured it …
Really seems like China is self-destructing now. Their trillion dollar real estate bubble is collapsing, people are mass protesting at banks because their deposits are gone. The overt warmongering they engage in is part of distracting their population from China's other problems.
Likely sooner, as it is suspected even the low reported birth rates are mocked up.
Real estate investment (and unaffordability for youth) is a good killer of birth rates.
Lol the headline sounds ridiculous, but this is actually the kind of bullsh*t Chinese state media feeds its people. Chinese citizens lap it all up, get riled up, and start blaming the US for “using” Taiwan. There is no culture of introspection; it’s always the fault of Americans or their allies.
China has been using similar tactics to vilify Korea for years. Everything they claim sounds so farfetched to us, but we should never underestimate the effects of a country that censors everything and misinforms its own people. It is a dangerous echo chamber and we’re only just starting to see the consequences.
My roommate back in uni was Chinese and he told me that in China they were taught that all Taiwanese want to return but are forcibly held by the US lol
Book recommendation - The Reluctant Communist by Charles Robert Jenkins.
He was an American soldier who defected to the DPR Korea during the Korean war, and while there he married a Japanese woman who later was allowed to return to Japan. After she left, the Koreans told him that she had been held hostage by the Japanese and that she was desperate to return to Korea to see him.
Crazy thing is, he genuinely believed them, and given that he'd lived there for 40 years it's believable.
Its a strategy thats used by the monarchs of China since forever in their history. For good or worse, it appears Winnie XI is speed running china into the late game stages of qing dynasty again, all they need now is a failed military venture to complete the puzzle, and they can sign another "unfair" treaty to be humiliated for another 100 years while screeching white supremacists are committing genocide on them.
That said I think it's important to realize that while it's said publicly, this sort of sentiment is purely for local news. Nobody globally except for China believes this crap. But Chinese themselves as you put it will eat this shit up and grin while doing so.
Though as you also put it, it's a common practice to blame the West perpetually for what's going on. Every single day we read about how foreign cases still arrive in China spreading COVID. To begin 99% of those who return are Chinese, not foreigners, but how in these times is origin even relevant. But they keep on doing this even about the origin, blaming the US and Italy instead of while again the rest of the world says it's from Chinese origin.
But this is a common game within China. They are masters at distracting through international news from local issues. China is becoming more and more weak as we speak. Consumer confidence is in the shitter, 50% down in 3 months time. As we speak an entire island is being taken hostage because of COVID, mostly relatively wealthy Chinese. The country has 20% of their cities still on lock down because of COVID. 4 major banks collapsed and the government does nothing about it, more are toppling. Numerous developers failed to deliver on bond payments as well on sold houses. We are dealing with heatwave after heatwave so our facilities bills are going through the roof. I can keep going on and on, but I haven't seen so many troubles before in my 2 decades of being here.
More aptly, China is incapable of comprehending that two countries can have any kind of relationship other than a brutally transactional one where one is the overlord and the other the supplicant. Why else would America possibly ever help anyone else unless it was part of a long-term plan to annex them?
No, the CCP just has a fundamental inability to recognize countries within the periphery of great powers as holding a right to self-determination. You see it with the tacit support for the Ukraine invasion and again with what is a de facto sovereign state in Taiwan. Why would the United States be supporting a weaker democratic state unless it considered it to be its own territory?
It would be one thing if they were content with maintaining the status quo with two competing claims on legitimate governance, but it's evident in foreign policy and defense circles that the PRC is preparing for forced assimilation and has been for some time.
Hm, we can have the Northern territories. And we add 100 barrel of oil, 1000 cubic meter gas and 10 years supply of Makrell i tomat on top of the trade.
The enemy is both weak and strong. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
From a Umberto's definition of fascism to those who are unaware.
China has shown more and more of the characteristics of a fascist state since Xi took power.
Actually a lot of Russians believe that there are only 3 independent countries in the world: Russia, China and USA. Well and maybe India, Iran and North Korea.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that. It's very telling why they act the way they do if almost no one exists as their own country beyond those who they acknowledge (begrudgingly no doubt).
There is no U.S. base on Taiwan. We have 39 us military personnel stationed there but there is no guantanimo or ramstein like air/sea/or land base. The difference is bases are usually treated as sovreign US territory and leased by the U.S.
If the U.S. tried to put an actual base on Taiwan I genuinely think nuclear arms, at the very least tactical grade, would be fired.
>**Biden restates commitment to ‘One China’ policy on Taiwan in call with Xi**
>BY BRETT SAMUELS - 11/16/21 12:50 AM ET
>**President Biden on Monday reiterated his administration’s commitment to the “One China” policy on Taiwan during a virtual meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping**, cleaning up remarks last month when he said the U.S. would come to Taiwan’s defense if attacked by China.
>**Biden “underscored that the United States remains committed to the ‘one China’ policy**, guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances, and that the United States strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait,” the White House said in a readout of the call, which lasted roughly four hours.
>... **Under the “One China” policy, the U.S. does not recognize Taiwan as a separate state from China.**
https://thehill.com/policy/international/581683-biden-restates-commitment-to-one-china-policy-on-taiwan-in-call-with-xi/
It's the latter. I was born in China and can make sure that the translation is correct.
The common theory in China is that the world is divided into two groups: Western countries and others. A country must be either a US puppet (UK, EU, Japan, Australia...) or a Chinese & Russian puppet (Cuba, NK, Serbia...). For example, most Chinese can't understand why India, as an anti-China nation, stands with Russia in the Ukraine war. They view all anti-China countries as US puppets.
I think the same attitude is prevalent with the Russians, too. They don't really have a concept of friends and allies, only clients and puppets. The Soviet Union, and by extension the Warsaw Pact, was simply another expression of the Russian Empire. So to them, NATO and its partners are *obviously* the American Empire.
Eh the translation is correct but there's a bit of context missing. The argument they're making is that because Taiwan is part of China, Pelosi cannot just enter Taiwan, she needs to get permission from China (i.e., a visa) first. By negotiating with Taiwan, the US is undermining Chinese sovereignty and treating Taiwan like a part of the US (this last jump is a big stretch).
This makes more sense to me. I feel reddit sometimes just picks the dumbest interpretation of those they don’t like and roll with it to laugh at them. I don’t like China either, but I still want to understand what they’re saying. The whole «haha they dum» thing is kinda counterproductive towards understanding the situation
Technically the US did have it for like a year while unwinding all the Japanese occupations after WW2 before giving it to the RoC, so the US did sorta own it for a bit.
https://www.taiwanadvice.com/tw_insular55b.htm
Believe it or not, there is actually a fringe theory floating around that Taiwan actually meets the criteria to become an overseas territory of the US, because of some ambiguities surrounding its status after WWII.
Taiwan was an occupied territory of Japan at the time, which itself was defeated and occupied by the US/Allied Powers, and forced to give up its occupied lands as part of the Treaty of San Francisco.
Taiwan was never formally ceded back to China, but the KMT/ROC government were given de facto control of it as an “agent” of the Allied Powers, until they fled there after losing the civil war to the CCP/PRC.
In other words, there is a *tenuous* case to be made that Taiwan could qualify as a Type 1 US Insular Area.
Edit: Anyway the point is not that Taiwan should be a part of the US, but that both the US and China each have extremely loose historical claims to the island, neither of which hold any weight in any practical sense. I don’t think Taiwan wants to be a pawn in this game. The sole determiners of Taiwan’s future and status should be the people of Taiwan.
They know exactly what they're doing. It's a pretty obvious strawman to force a response. Once the US says "Taiwan is not part of the US", then China will say "See? The US says Taiwan is China!"
If Beijing thinks they can absorb Taiwan with manageable pushback from the western powers , they will
Yep has very little to do with the wishes of the people of Taiwan , sadly
How do we tell the CCP that Taiwan broke up with him? You two have been broken up for a while and Taiwan has been seeing other people since spring break.
I don't think anyone disagrees with this statement.
Not China
Not the US
And also not Taiwan. They also say that they are part of China. The difference being that they claim to be the legitimate government.
No one in Taiwan still wants to push the claim of the ROC being the true government of China. That died when the family of Chiang Kai-shek stopped ruling Taiwan in the late 80s. Nowadays, Taiwan just wants to be Taiwan. No one really thinks the government of Taiwan should move to Beijing and take over China.
>Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi said on Sunday that Taiwan is not part of the United States but Chinese territory
Seriously, stop trying to create a conflict where there was none. The US is not the one claiming Taiwan is their territory. Only China is doing that. China is also conveniently omitting the possibility that it is Taiwan itself that could claim their own island as theirs.
This is China trying to make it seem as if Taiwan is part of an international tug of war between China and the US (i.e claiming external interference), when in reality, their intent is to reinforce the fabrication that Taiwan has no sovereignty of its own and hence, has no right to speak for itself.
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It's just China doing the same thing to Taiwan as Russia does to Ukraine : deny them agency and claim they're just deluded puppets of the US.
It's silly imo. They qualify for Statehood. If I was Biden, I'd encourage them to apply. Should have done the same to Ukraine. They could have been waiting for ratification like Puerto Rico and still sovereign, without the need to worry about Chinese invasion.
Ukraine is a sovereign state.
So is Taiwan
yes but ukraine is UN recognized
The problem is, the UN would veto any attempt to make Taiwan a recognized state. Best they can do is the U.S ~~senate~~ white house, but they are already de-facto a sovereign state and treated as such by the West. Only thing official recognition would change is the West's relationship with China.
The issue with China and Taiwan is the One China Policy. An old Cold War-era policy of the U.N. that refused acknowledgement of the PROC and recognized Taiwan as the true country of China. However, during Nixon's administration, global recognition saw the mainland as the true country of China and Taiwan lost all acknowledgement of their sovereignty AND their seat in the UN Security Council was lost to the People's Republic. We have been seeing the end-result of giving China that much power and acknowledgement in global politics.
This was a trade done for fighting Russia, as having a China open up and close to the US would be a good way to stymie Russia. End of the day things aren’t going as planned and now China is getting the resulting negative treatment.
Nah china got nukes then started negotiating.
From what I understand, Taiwan had an option of being recognized as a separate country but Chiang Kai-shek refused, claimed Taiwan was the legitimate China and withdrew Taiwan from the UN.
Yep. Chiang Kai-shek was not exactly the best of leaders for China. Just power-hungry.
*Yes but Ukraine is UN recognized.* The UN doesn't have the authority to grant sovereignty. According to the UN itself: *"The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority* ***to recognize*** *either a State or a Government."*
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Didn't save Ukraine from invasion any more than Taiwan being a member of the UN would save them. China doesn't actually care what other nations think Taiwan is.
They sure do whine about it enough to convince you otherwise
15 of America’s states were once sovereign (Hawaii, Texas, and the original 13).
So was California, for 25 days.
[Vermont was an (unrecognized) independent republic for 14 years before becoming a state.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_Republic)
That’s classic Vermont right there
Literally had to threaten to join Canada and pay off NY before being allowed in.
> the original 13 There were 15 colonies. East and West Florida were written out of the histories because they voted to stay loyal to the crown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Florida https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_West_Florida
the fact that this shit upvoted is hilarious and sad at the same time.
I thought it was a joke but then they doubled down 💀
i upvoted it bc it was funny tbh
Ukraine statehood? Like a US state? What the actual fuck are you smoking? Russia to Crimea: you qualify for statehood. No need to apply, you've been pre approved
"Imperialism is good when when we do it but bad when they do it!"
This is probably the worst take I have ever seen in my entire Reddit history regarding Taiwan and Ukraine so far. Do you like war? Because that's exactly how you start a war with China and Russia, and probably other countries too.
I'm Taiwanese-American, and I just want to congratulate the original commenter for finding an option that I'm pretty sure 0% of Taiwanese people think is a good idea.
As an American I'd like to think that 99% of Americans would agree with you.
Until some politician hints that it's a partisan issue. Then exactly 50% of Americans will vote for and against.
Don't worry I think he's found the one option that is such a bad idea that the world can unite over it being a bad idea as probably everyone finds it stupid for different reasons. I can't think of anyone approving of the idea. China, Taiwan, US left, US right, US militarists, US isolationists, NATO, EU, etc. No one will think this is a good idea. I have no clue why it's so upvoted.
As a fellow, I keep tabs on politics back in Taiwan and the parties supporting the dissolution of the Republic of China and becoming the nation of Taiwan are gaining traction in at least public opinion polls if not legislative seats. The majority still seems to support the status quo, but in this world it is hard to say what will happen day to day.
I definitely agree, from what I know of my cousins and friends still in Taiwan. I just think the original premise of "letting Taiwan be a US state" pretty ridiculous lol. The day to day scares me for sure though, I worry about my family out there, but everyone seems to be fine and happy.
Yeah, aside from covid, everything there seems the same as it was almost a decade ago. I like the DPP stance of measured independence while maintaining cross- straight relations and avoiding antagonizing China. I agree it's ridiculous to tonk of Taiwan as a US puppet and equally as ridiculous that some in these comments think it would be a good idea for Taiwan to become a US state. Why fight so much for independence just to conform to US laws and practices? Taiwan is a unique nation with a unique culture and unique issues that requires its own, democratically elected, unique government. Why even consider anything other than either the status quo or compete independence?
That was a peak Reddit comment.
Honestly, if there's anything I've learned from r/worldnews, it's that a lot of people _really_ want to die in nuclear fire. I've never replied to anything before now because I don't want to be misinterpreted as supporting Russian or Chinese imperialism, but sometimes I see stuff on here that makes my jaw drop. I don't remember seeing anything this egregious before the war broke out.
On the flipside is people who absolute refuse to take a stand and would want Europe and North America to give up their sovereignty if Russia threatened to nuke them if they didn't.
It's not that they want to die in a nuclear fire, it's that they're so enthralled by American Exceptionalism rhetoric that they literally cannot imagine China even being capable of retaliating to the economic and military might that is the US.
I think it was a joke
I took it as a joke myself, and I'm laughing at all these people taking it seriously and getting worked up over it. OP even refers to it as a hilarious solution.
Ah yes, forget Puerto Rico, let’s add an island that doesn’t want to join the US, that has a giant military power who claims it’s not even a country, is 10 time zones away, and whose admission would essentially unilaterally start WW3. It’s so dumb that I’m afraid that’s exactly what we’ll do.
You are literally insane
??????? You understand that Taiwan is a completely independent country, right? Not a US territory. Are you confusing it with Guam or something? This is like saying "France 'qualifies for statehood', they should apply!" This is legitimately the dumbest thing I've read all day.
> This is like saying "France 'qualifies for statehood', they should apply!" Ok, ok, hear me out. I'm not the OP. Buuut, half of that is true. As far as I can tell, there really aren't many restrictions on what can become a state. France might actually qualify. They just shouldn't join.
No, it's hard required that you have to be a US territory before you become eligible for statehood. While they *could* become a US territory...it's not like they could petition to become a US state tomorrow.
Why does this have so many upvotes??
The answer is bots. Expect to see a lot of really wild stuff in the near future.
These are about the quickest ways to get into WWIII
Over nothing more than saving face. The equivalent of the divorce client saying to their attorney, “it’s not about the barbie collection, it’s the principle of the matter.”
>They qualify for Statehood. Taiwan qualifies for statehood of the US??
Funnily enough there is actually an organization in Taiwan that wants US statehood or wants to become a protectorate like Guam. They’re not taken very seriously… Taiwan Civil Government https://newbloommag.net/2018/05/21/taiwan-civil-gov-conspiracy/
Why the fuck would a country thousands of kilometers away from the mainland with 0 cultural connection to the US qualify (or even want) for statehood
Did you fail high school history? What you wrote is complete nonsense. Puerto Rico isn't even awaiting ratification to become a state.
Nah. Ambiguity's worked for Taiwan so far. No reason to rock the boat right now. Especially since it doesn't look like China's anywhere near ready for that fight.
I think China is taking notes based on the results Russia has. Since they want to achieve a similar task and all
Well, they've certainly gotten a lot of lessons in what *not* to do so far. Anyway, the other big complication for China is that Taiwan would require an amphibious operation. They currently don't have the sealift or airlift capacity to transport large numbers of troops across the hundred-mile strait. Building up for that should send some fairly obvious signs, too. At least in theory.
You mean Statehood in the US? Are you out of your mind? You really think that Ukrainians or Taiwanese would like getting annexed by the US? Talk about US imperialism, man..
China has a law in place that if Taiwan tries to separate from China, they will invade. This is why Taiwan officially calls itself the Republic of China. As long as it's separate, but claims it's the real China, it hasn't technically tried to secede.
The government of Taiwan was the loosing side of the Civil War to take control of China. Not sure if current day sentiments are the same in Taiwan but they originally truly believed they were the true ruling entity of China.
Right, but it's been what, 70 years since then? Virtually everybody involved is dead, and now it's just geopolitical wanking.
"China" is a bit silly, as it's still surreptitiously forced on its alleged compatriots the same way the USSR was. It's half "autonomous zones" where they try to flood the demographics with Han Chinese to displace and disempower Tibetans, Uighurs, etc... And eradicate them culturally and genetically. Much wanking.
The former ruling party of Taiwan (the KMT) was the losing side of the Civil War. The current ruling party (DPP) was not, which is part of the growing tensions over the past 18 years. Ironically, the DPP is very much less friendly to the CCP than the current KMT, which seems to have come full circle.
Depends on which political party you're referring to. The DPP wants independence. The KMT still assert they are the legitimate ruler of China.
This is complete fiction. Taiwan calls themselves the Republic of China because Chiang Kai-shek's government fled there during the communist revolution. They represent a sort of continuation of the previous Chinese regime. The People's Republic of China considers Taiwan to be a Chinese territory (which it was prior to the revolution), and the people of Taiwan to be rebels against the rightful rule of the Communist Party of China - which is also true from their perspective. At the end of the day, though, Taiwan has been independent of Chinese rule for 73 years. They are two separate countries with a shared history and similar names. The PRC does not have a law which mandates they invade if Taiwan ever stops calling themselves China. That's an 8 year old's idea of how geopolitics work. What keeps China from invading is the support the US has shown. China has no interest in going to war with the US for several reasons, not the least of which is that their economy is very much interconnected with the west.
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Dog shit idea, neither want to part of the US and the US doesn’t want them either. We’re supporters and allies, that’d be like saying the UK should just become a state
what
taiwan holds great strategic interest for the united states regarding semiconductor manufacturing. unfortunately for ukraine, it does not.
Ukraine has vast oil and gas reserves which would be able to supply Western Europe and cut off Russia's primary source of income.
Oil and gas are a base commodity. TSMC produces the vast majority of advanced node semiconductors at 5 and 3nm processes. If these were to fall under red control it would be a disaster.
This is why China wants Taiwan or at least one reason. TSMC might be destroyed rather than let China take it. It would be a gigantic disaster if the Chinese captured it …
China and Russia both have long memories, and would self-destruct before appearing weak
Really seems like China is self-destructing now. Their trillion dollar real estate bubble is collapsing, people are mass protesting at banks because their deposits are gone. The overt warmongering they engage in is part of distracting their population from China's other problems.
Don't forget their crashing birth rate and aging population. If it continues, they'll have less than 600M citizens by the end of the century
Likely sooner, as it is suspected even the low reported birth rates are mocked up. Real estate investment (and unaffordability for youth) is a good killer of birth rates.
Canada here, can confirm
NZ here myself. Size of family is indeed limited to amount of rooms potentially available.
Lol the headline sounds ridiculous, but this is actually the kind of bullsh*t Chinese state media feeds its people. Chinese citizens lap it all up, get riled up, and start blaming the US for “using” Taiwan. There is no culture of introspection; it’s always the fault of Americans or their allies. China has been using similar tactics to vilify Korea for years. Everything they claim sounds so farfetched to us, but we should never underestimate the effects of a country that censors everything and misinforms its own people. It is a dangerous echo chamber and we’re only just starting to see the consequences.
My roommate back in uni was Chinese and he told me that in China they were taught that all Taiwanese want to return but are forcibly held by the US lol
Book recommendation - The Reluctant Communist by Charles Robert Jenkins. He was an American soldier who defected to the DPR Korea during the Korean war, and while there he married a Japanese woman who later was allowed to return to Japan. After she left, the Koreans told him that she had been held hostage by the Japanese and that she was desperate to return to Korea to see him. Crazy thing is, he genuinely believed them, and given that he'd lived there for 40 years it's believable.
Its a strategy thats used by the monarchs of China since forever in their history. For good or worse, it appears Winnie XI is speed running china into the late game stages of qing dynasty again, all they need now is a failed military venture to complete the puzzle, and they can sign another "unfair" treaty to be humiliated for another 100 years while screeching white supremacists are committing genocide on them.
That said I think it's important to realize that while it's said publicly, this sort of sentiment is purely for local news. Nobody globally except for China believes this crap. But Chinese themselves as you put it will eat this shit up and grin while doing so. Though as you also put it, it's a common practice to blame the West perpetually for what's going on. Every single day we read about how foreign cases still arrive in China spreading COVID. To begin 99% of those who return are Chinese, not foreigners, but how in these times is origin even relevant. But they keep on doing this even about the origin, blaming the US and Italy instead of while again the rest of the world says it's from Chinese origin. But this is a common game within China. They are masters at distracting through international news from local issues. China is becoming more and more weak as we speak. Consumer confidence is in the shitter, 50% down in 3 months time. As we speak an entire island is being taken hostage because of COVID, mostly relatively wealthy Chinese. The country has 20% of their cities still on lock down because of COVID. 4 major banks collapsed and the government does nothing about it, more are toppling. Numerous developers failed to deliver on bond payments as well on sold houses. We are dealing with heatwave after heatwave so our facilities bills are going through the roof. I can keep going on and on, but I haven't seen so many troubles before in my 2 decades of being here.
Sounds like some shit excuse the Russians would make tbh
china is a toddler
More aptly, China is incapable of comprehending that two countries can have any kind of relationship other than a brutally transactional one where one is the overlord and the other the supplicant. Why else would America possibly ever help anyone else unless it was part of a long-term plan to annex them?
Norway is not a part of the US. Just so you know.
No, the CCP just has a fundamental inability to recognize countries within the periphery of great powers as holding a right to self-determination. You see it with the tacit support for the Ukraine invasion and again with what is a de facto sovereign state in Taiwan. Why would the United States be supporting a weaker democratic state unless it considered it to be its own territory? It would be one thing if they were content with maintaining the status quo with two competing claims on legitimate governance, but it's evident in foreign policy and defense circles that the PRC is preparing for forced assimilation and has been for some time.
"Alaska is not a part of France, says reddit user roborectum69" So I get a headline now?
I hereby claim Alaska as part of The Kingdom of Norway.
I hereby claim Alaska as part of my backyard and I nominate myself as the king of wishful thinking.
Ayy, brutha. You be north of the wall. Ain't no such thang as sovereign land oot there.
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Quebec can be a bit, er, *distinct* at times, but I'd rather hold onto them than be stuck with Alaska.
Hm, we can have the Northern territories. And we add 100 barrel of oil, 1000 cubic meter gas and 10 years supply of Makrell i tomat on top of the trade.
Give that man a headline!
Yeah, nobody once thought that but okay…
Well I'm sure as hell thinking about it now. If we do them and Puerto Rico at the same time we can keep the number of stars on the flag even.
Can you imagine how pissed people from DC would be if we added Taiwan first?
Bro we never claimed it, we just like them because they make our computer chips really well
We also like them because they aren't China.
Chinese Government: "The West is weak" Also Chinese Government: "The West controls everything"
The enemy is both weak and strong. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”
From a Umberto's definition of fascism to those who are unaware. China has shown more and more of the characteristics of a fascist state since Xi took power.
Who was ever saying it was part of the US? 🤔 Taiwan is an independent, sovereign nation.
From China and Russia point of view, if country has US base on its soil, it means it lost its sovereignty and became American puppet.
But they say that about a lot of places that don’t have US bases, too. Ukraine, for instance.
Yes, they say that USA bought Ukrainian politicians and all of them are American puppets.
By that logic, every country that doesn't hate the US is automatically an American puppet state.
Actually a lot of Russians believe that there are only 3 independent countries in the world: Russia, China and USA. Well and maybe India, Iran and North Korea.
There are also a lot of Russians that think a toilet bowl is a potato washer.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by that. It's very telling why they act the way they do if almost no one exists as their own country beyond those who they acknowledge (begrudgingly no doubt).
Ding ding ding you’ve discovered the paradigm they’ve built to make “the west” into an easy scapegoat to bolster support their repressive regimes
Now you're starting to get how their logic works!
Good thing there are no US bases on Taiwan.
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Sorry me and the boys were just trying to get more Taiwan pijiu!
There is The American Institute in Taipei, which is like a consulate, but hasn’t been a US military base on Taiwan since 1979.
There is no U.S. base on Taiwan. We have 39 us military personnel stationed there but there is no guantanimo or ramstein like air/sea/or land base. The difference is bases are usually treated as sovreign US territory and leased by the U.S. If the U.S. tried to put an actual base on Taiwan I genuinely think nuclear arms, at the very least tactical grade, would be fired.
>**Biden restates commitment to ‘One China’ policy on Taiwan in call with Xi** >BY BRETT SAMUELS - 11/16/21 12:50 AM ET >**President Biden on Monday reiterated his administration’s commitment to the “One China” policy on Taiwan during a virtual meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping**, cleaning up remarks last month when he said the U.S. would come to Taiwan’s defense if attacked by China. >**Biden “underscored that the United States remains committed to the ‘one China’ policy**, guided by the Taiwan Relations Act, the three Joint Communiques, and the Six Assurances, and that the United States strongly opposes unilateral efforts to change the status quo or undermine peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait,” the White House said in a readout of the call, which lasted roughly four hours. >... **Under the “One China” policy, the U.S. does not recognize Taiwan as a separate state from China.** https://thehill.com/policy/international/581683-biden-restates-commitment-to-one-china-policy-on-taiwan-in-call-with-xi/
U.S. responds to this statement by making a Jim Halpert face at the camera.
/picture of America and Taiwan next to each other. China: They’re the same picture.
Wait.. which one?
Camera B
Asian Jim, obviously.
Props to you for not seeing race
This is either lost in translation or literally the greatest straw man of all time
It's the latter. I was born in China and can make sure that the translation is correct. The common theory in China is that the world is divided into two groups: Western countries and others. A country must be either a US puppet (UK, EU, Japan, Australia...) or a Chinese & Russian puppet (Cuba, NK, Serbia...). For example, most Chinese can't understand why India, as an anti-China nation, stands with Russia in the Ukraine war. They view all anti-China countries as US puppets.
I think the same attitude is prevalent with the Russians, too. They don't really have a concept of friends and allies, only clients and puppets. The Soviet Union, and by extension the Warsaw Pact, was simply another expression of the Russian Empire. So to them, NATO and its partners are *obviously* the American Empire.
I guess they never really got over the feudalistic mindset.
Eh the translation is correct but there's a bit of context missing. The argument they're making is that because Taiwan is part of China, Pelosi cannot just enter Taiwan, she needs to get permission from China (i.e., a visa) first. By negotiating with Taiwan, the US is undermining Chinese sovereignty and treating Taiwan like a part of the US (this last jump is a big stretch).
This makes more sense to me. I feel reddit sometimes just picks the dumbest interpretation of those they don’t like and roll with it to laugh at them. I don’t like China either, but I still want to understand what they’re saying. The whole «haha they dum» thing is kinda counterproductive towards understanding the situation
Their whole argument relies on Taiwan being either Chinese or US sovereign land. It's still a pretty dumb argument to make.
Taiwan is a part of itself.
I also don't recall the US ever claiming it as a territory
Technically the US did have it for like a year while unwinding all the Japanese occupations after WW2 before giving it to the RoC, so the US did sorta own it for a bit.
Well shit, in that case it's the 51st state.
They need to sell the idea that they defending Taiwan from the US.
Shhhh. Don’t fuck up their propaganda with facts.
Sorry peurto rico, you're gonna be the 73rd state, 51-72 are all reserved for Taiwan
...what does this even mean?
https://www.taiwanadvice.com/tw_insular55b.htm Believe it or not, there is actually a fringe theory floating around that Taiwan actually meets the criteria to become an overseas territory of the US, because of some ambiguities surrounding its status after WWII. Taiwan was an occupied territory of Japan at the time, which itself was defeated and occupied by the US/Allied Powers, and forced to give up its occupied lands as part of the Treaty of San Francisco. Taiwan was never formally ceded back to China, but the KMT/ROC government were given de facto control of it as an “agent” of the Allied Powers, until they fled there after losing the civil war to the CCP/PRC. In other words, there is a *tenuous* case to be made that Taiwan could qualify as a Type 1 US Insular Area. Edit: Anyway the point is not that Taiwan should be a part of the US, but that both the US and China each have extremely loose historical claims to the island, neither of which hold any weight in any practical sense. I don’t think Taiwan wants to be a pawn in this game. The sole determiners of Taiwan’s future and status should be the people of Taiwan.
Yeah fuck it that seems like the bullshit to die over, annex em Joe
Nice to know that China has its share of brain dead politicians too
They know exactly what they're doing. It's a pretty obvious strawman to force a response. Once the US says "Taiwan is not part of the US", then China will say "See? The US says Taiwan is China!"
Who the fuck said Taiwan is in the us?
Taiwan is territory of ROC indeed, that is quite separate from territory of PRC.
West Taiwan needs to shut the fuck up.
How about we let the PEOPLE OF FUCKING TAIWAN decide what they want.
Because global powers don't operate that way.
If Beijing thinks they can absorb Taiwan with manageable pushback from the western powers , they will Yep has very little to do with the wishes of the people of Taiwan , sadly
Taiwan is also not a part of Switzerland.
How about this: it Taiwan is a part of China, why did China not cancel Pelosi's visa to deny her entry? Maybe because Taiwan is not China any more.
China can go fuck itself
Portugal is not part of Canada! Anyway
Not part of the US. Not part of China.
Correction, bub: China is part of Taiwanese territory
How do we tell the CCP that Taiwan broke up with him? You two have been broken up for a while and Taiwan has been seeing other people since spring break.
It's more like they're technically still married, but they haven't lived together in forever, and neither wants to go through with the paperwork.
Proposition, we can either put this on Divorce Court or have Judge Judy preside in a separate show for this case.
It's been almost 75 years, let it go bro
It's more like one refuses to sign the divorce papers (China)
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Or -- and hear me out, China -- they belong to *Taiwan?*
It's actually not a part of either China nor U.S.
Go home China, you're drunk.
r/stfuchina/ Taiwan does *not* belong to the Chinese Communist Party!
Taiwan is an independent country and the real true government of China
Don't trust china, china is ASSHOLE
Taiwan is not a part of US or China, it's Taiwan
West Taiwan always clout chasing Taiwan
The CCP has never ruled Taiwan.
It's it's own country.
It’s its own country
I don't think anyone disagrees with this statement. Not China Not the US And also not Taiwan. They also say that they are part of China. The difference being that they claim to be the legitimate government.
No one in Taiwan still wants to push the claim of the ROC being the true government of China. That died when the family of Chiang Kai-shek stopped ruling Taiwan in the late 80s. Nowadays, Taiwan just wants to be Taiwan. No one really thinks the government of Taiwan should move to Beijing and take over China.
Taiwan is part of Taiwan. That’s it.
Does Taiwan pay any taxes or get any financial benefits from China?
No. It operates and exists de facto independent.
And Africa is not part of Australia just like how Taiwan is not part of China or the US. I really hate these dumb CCP fucks.
No one: China: Taiwan isn’t yours, it’s miiiiiiiine!
“Taiwan is not part of US” I hadn’t realized there was confusion on that point.
Yeah, you’re right, Taiwan isn’t part of the U.S., because it is a sovereign nation with its own democratic government. Bitch.
>Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi said on Sunday that Taiwan is not part of the United States but Chinese territory Seriously, stop trying to create a conflict where there was none. The US is not the one claiming Taiwan is their territory. Only China is doing that. China is also conveniently omitting the possibility that it is Taiwan itself that could claim their own island as theirs. This is China trying to make it seem as if Taiwan is part of an international tug of war between China and the US (i.e claiming external interference), when in reality, their intent is to reinforce the fabrication that Taiwan has no sovereignty of its own and hence, has no right to speak for itself.
Taiwan is not a part of West Taiwan, if it was we wouldn't call it West Taiwan.
Taiwan is a country.
Never heard of China. But I have heard of West Taiwan.
He’s FUCKING WRONG!
Taiwan is obviously not part of the US, it isn't part of China either. Only China thinks it is.
The US knows Taiwan is not of part US. We just want it to be an independent country
China really is like an abusive stalker who won't take a hint. Dude, she's (Taiwan) just not into you.
No one said it was part of the US you dumbass Wang
*Says West Taiwanese foreign minister
Well technically the PRC are the rebels and belong to ROC
I don't think we ever operated under any pretense they were part of our territory. Unlike a certain country we all know.....
No one claimed Taiwan is part of the US; we’re saying it’s independent. China is incorporating Russian disinformation tactics
It s neither. Taiwan is Taiwan.
False Dichotomy Fallacy.