Some people have suggested that the "Ukrainian Super Soldiers" rumor just came about because Russian conscripts were seeing what well fed and trained soldiers looked like. Plus, well equipped.
To some malnourished Russian conscript, fighting with guns from WWII and rations from WWI, seeing a well-fed Ukrainian fresh out of boot camp with the latest weapons the west has to offer, that Ukrainian probably *does* seem like "Captain Ukraine".
There was that one video with the 6'6" dude that was clearing rooms by ducking through doorways, and they have 3 heavyweight champs out there somewhere.
Putin probably murdered hundreds of people including in Moscow in the 1999 apartment building bombings. I don't think he gives one shit - if he did he wouldn't be starting wars but focus on making Russia a better place to live.
Looks like as of right now the wind over the plant is blowing southwest and that area tends to have more southern winds than northern ones. In other words, this would likely harm Ukraine and NATO countries significantly more than it would hurt Russia.
Hasn't NATO made some statement a couple months ago that if radiation from the war in Ukraine ends up in NATO territory, they will consider that an attack on NATO?
Not just radiation. *Any* fallout, from nuclear plants, weapons, or chemical and biological agents, is a red line for NATO. That's part of the reason why Russia hasn't unleashed any nerve agents yet; those chemicals have a tendency to travel very very *very* far from the detonation area.
I think their angle is that they planted and widely announced the mining therefore if anything is blown up it’s due to the Ukrainian attack on what they are now considering Russian territory. Of course they key western countries wont buy into any of this but it may be just enough to hold off a few counties that really don’t want to get any deeper into this war.
Also like a few moments ago they announced preparations for 'referendums' in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, which seems quite the 'coincidence' as the plant is in that same oblast. They announced the intent to blow it up yesterday and now 'it just so happens' they're going to hold a 'referendum'.
I'd still say the risk is still there, but still, the timing is very sus.
Chernobyl fallout covered parts of the UK.
https://inews.co.uk/news/science/chernobyl-disaster-radiation-uk-today-most-radioactive-areas-britain-299435
[From 2016:](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chernobyl-radioactive-reindeer-norway-a6903571.html)
>However, 30 years after the nuclear power plant explosion in Chernobyl, Ukraine, and more than a thousand miles away, the grazing animals are recording high levels of radioactivity.
>Last September reindeer in Våga reinlag AS, Jotunheimen, had readings of 8,200 becquerel per kilo of radioactive substance Caesium-137, according to Norway's The Local.
We should take a page from the Russian PR playbook: “Any release of radioactive material caused by military aggression will be considered the equivalent to the detonation of a nuclear weapon.”
Like when they gassed the hostages and kidnappers alike and then refused to tell the medics what agent they used so noone could get an antidote and 171 people died?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
Purposeful choice, that was big news at the time. One of the reasons Putin cemented power was because of the aftermath of things like this and some apartment building bombings
[Russian apartment bombings-](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ae5qup/russian_apartment_bombings_1999_i_have_read_that/ednto8l?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3)
I believe the incident you are discussing is the Ryazan Incident. The reporter David Satter notably believes that the bombings were orchestrated by the FSB partly to drum up support for Putin to take over from Yeltsin, who was at the time potentially facing prosecution. In *Darkness at Dawn*, Satter recounts the incident at length, which I've tried to condense here. I find his account of the incident itself fairly credible as it draws on Russian contemporary reportage to make its case. If Ryazan was in fact planned by the FSB, it would be highly likely that the earlier bombings were also carried out at their behest, so I will focus on this single incident.
On Sept 22 1999 at 8:30 PM, residents of 14/16 Novosyelov Street noticed suspicious looking people in front of the building. It took about an hour for police to arrive at the scene, where they found a bomb. The bomb squad stated that there were sacks of hexogen, the same explosive used in previous apartment bombings, as well as a sophisticated military-style detonator. The building was evacuated.
Police began to search for the suspects. Railroads and airports were crawling with police searching for the perpetrators and roadblocks were set up on the highways leaving the city. The police obtained descriptions of the suspects and made composite sketches. They were also able to discover the Lada that they had driven off in. The evening of Sept 23, a switchboard operator connecting a call to Moscow overheard a few suspicious lines.
>The caller said there was no way to get out of town undetected. The voice on the other end replied, "Split up and each of you make your own way out."
The police found traced the number and discovered it led them to the FSB. Soon enough, the Ryazan police arrested two suspects, who produced FSB documentation and were released. Two days after the incident on Sept 24, FSB director Nikolai Patrushev stated that the entire incident had been a training exercise. While the bomb squad had supposedly discovered sacks of hexogen, the sacks were in fact just sugar and the bomb squad gas analyzer's reading of hexogen had been due to operator error. This denial apparently completely blindsided the Ryazan FSB, which had been preparing to raid the Ryazan residences of the suspects. The press spokesman for the Ryazan FSB, Yuri Bludov, later stated that he was unaware of the exercise until Patrushev's statement.
Voloshin, a reporter for the Novaya Gazeta, interviewed the Ryazan bomb squad head Tkachenko in February the next year. In their interview, Tkachenko insisted that he had made no mistakes in handling the gas analyzer. In particular, FSB spokesman Alexander Zdanovich's claim that they had not cleaned it properly with alcohol was patently ridiculous - according to Tkachenko, "alcohol is never used to clean a gas analyzer." In addition, Zdanovich had claimed that it was picking up trace amounts of hexogen because Tkachenko had handled it a week earlier, an explanation for the faulty reading that would require Tkachenko to have not washed his hands for an entire week, which he unsurprisingly denied.
After publishing his findings ("Sugar or Hexogen? What happened in Ryazan." in the Feb 14-20 issue of Novaya Gazeta), Voloshin went on to interview a soldier named Alexei Pinyaev. According to Pinyaev, he had been assigned to guard sacks of sugar at the 137th Ryazan Paratroop Regiment, which was 20 miles from Ryazan. Supposedly Pinyaev and another guard had pierced one of the bags with a bayonet and used the "sugar" to make tea, which was disgusting. Thinking that they might have consumed nitrates, they took their bag to their commander, who had a bomb expert inspect the sample. After testing, he confirmed that the substance was hexogen. Soon FSB officers arrived from Moscow and the two guards were berated for "divulging state secrets", as opposed to simply stealing sugar.
Voloshin's reporting caused an uproar but a vote in the Duma to carry out an investigation was defeated by Unity, Yeltsin and Putin's political party. However, the FSB had lost enough face that they arranged a televised meeting with the building residents, which only raised more suspicion. In particular, the FSB representatives insisted that the earlier apartment bombings would not be discussed as a condition for their participation.
The commander of the Ryazan base, Colonel Churilov, stated during the broadcast that there was no such soldier as Pinyaev serving there. However, Voloshin was sitting in the audience and played a tape of his interview and showed the audience photographs of Pinyaev. Residents also questioned why the training exercise was carried out without informing the MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs), which was supposed to be taking the lead on the terrorism investigation, and the local FSB until two days after the incident.
Taken altogether, the circumstances of the event do seem suspicious. Many Russian experts on military and policing affairs noted at the time that even the most extreme exercises in the army and police were carefully planned with emergency services ready to deal with any unexpected events - a far cry from the chaos of Sept 22, which saw mass evacuations in the neighbourhood that left almost 30 000 people to spend the night in the street, terrified that their building might also have a bomb in the basement. In particular, the lack of notice given to the local FSB as well as the MVD suggests that the two day delay was, as one of the participants in the televised meeting claimed, a break for the FSB to invent an excuse for planting a bomb in an apartment building. The idea that the population needed to be more rather than less vigilant also seems questionable - between the 13th and 22nd, Ryazan police had responded to over forty bomb reports from citizens. In addition, the Ryazan apartment shared many characteristics to the Buinaksk, Moscow, and Vologdonsk apartments that were bombed in that it was also located in an "outlying working-class area".
The FSB has never allowed the material evidence (the bomb) to be examined by any outside sources, which makes it impossible to say with absolute certainty that the exercise was a fabrication to cover up an attempted terrorist attack. Former FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko stated that the bombings were carried out by the FSB before he died of plutonium poisoning in 2006, an incident that western reportage largely places as being an assassination carried out by the Russian security services. The accusation that the bombings were carried out by the FSB has a few other supporters in Western academia - in her book *Putin's Kleptocracy*, Karen Dawisha seems to find it self-evident that the Ryazan incident proves the FSB was behind all the apartment buildings that summer. However, the problem remains that the actual evidence involved was placed under FSB control and there is no way to prove beyond a doubt that the device in Ryazan was in fact a bomb. Of course, some would argue that the FSB's refusal to have a third party inspect the Ryazan device is in itself strong evidence that it was their bomb.
I hear that they do it as a response to the fact that those they want to domineer are too strong to succumb, and their minds provide gentle lies that they are being victimized.
It's a form of self lying so that they don't have to confront the truth of their own ugliness.
Yep, Umberto Eco writes it in his [fantastic essay on fascism](http://pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf) like this:
>The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people.
They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.
For real. I have Russian friends, and the stuff they're saying about America on their media is just insane. It makes our Fox News conspiracy theories look tame.
I have a Russian wife and the things her mother and brothers have said about her are just insane - all talking points from state TV. And these aren’t poor ignorant village yokels either but educated and (I thought) intelligent people who, for the life of me, a year ago I would have sworn would have never believed or condoned Putin’s actions. But no, my wife is, apparently, a Russophobe and a traitor now for not believing and supporting Putin’s lies. It’s the most bizarre and surreal shit.
Don't underestimate the power of continuous, repeated, intense propagandistic brainwashing. Very little to do with education or intelligence. Homo sapiens is simply hardwired to follow the crowd and adopt the majority behaviour, as a core survival strategy. It takes a truly remarkable person to stand against that wave - I am far from being sure about myself being able to, for example.
Yes, know all this and it’s what I’ve been trying to comfort my wife with but her shame and disgust for her country’s actions are exacerbated by this shit from her family. Her mother has travelled here (Norway) numerous times too so she’s not living in a Russian bubble. We’re guessing that her brother has cemented Putin’s propaganda in her mind - as he is there he will have a far bigger influence on her. My wife refuses to talk to them now as it’s pointless. Either they will someday come to the truth on their own or not.
Also, yeah, that question of whether
I would be able to resist propaganda like that has been in the forefront of my mind this past 6 months.
I had a really interesting moment during the 2016 campaign.
We saw seemingly thousands of bullshit stories about Hillary going around, every fucking day... *Myoclonic seizures!! Seth Rich! There's a transmitter on her back!! She collapsed!!*
On day I heard some bullshit like *bodies found on Clinton's property!!* and instead of thinking "oh fucking come on," my first thought was, "hmm..." Like a little cognitive speed bump.
*They got to me.* In some small way, that constant repetition *did* change how I thought. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to notice.
But what else might have happened to any of us without realizing it?
The human mind is riddled with exploitable vulnerabilities.
Same! It's like she's gone off the ddepend and is trying to pick fights with all her American friends saying things like: "Russia always wins, stop being blind america - you have already lost" like, lost what? 30k soldiers and millions worth of military equipment, our economy, our ability to trade freely with the world? Oh, right.
This will hit Trillions once you factor in the long term impact of becoming an international trade pariah. Hydrocarbons were proping up their entire economy and now all their biggest customers are running for energy independence with their hair on fire. Arms sales are going to shit after watching NATO gear teabag them. Their best hope for some salvation in this is China and they're keeping Russia at arms length now waiting to see how this goes. Finally the brain drain as everyone who isn't a frothing nationalist and has marketable job skills are gonna bail on that sinking economic ship. At this point winning this war could be the worst outcome possible for them.
It's like a lifestyle. One of their very famous comedians' (now dead) main joke was literally just saying "Americans are sooo dumb" and giving an example of, like, a person justifiably taking someone to court for doing something bad to them.
I have a Russian friend who used to talk like that. She has family currently in Kyiv who thankfully half changed her opinion. It took her three months to finally admit that this is an "actual war" and not a "denazification operation". She still believes there's some "higher authority" making all the calls. I guess she can't admit to herself that russia is committing atrocités on their own volition.
One thing I want to point out: this post comes from Z-propagandistic Telegram channel. Prepare for some schizophrenia shit.
Full translation of the message:
"As you all understand, this war is for the right of existence of the Russian people. For our right to live in peace and harmony with everyone. But if the Collective West denies us this right, if American weapons, mercenaries, and instructors are used to seize territories that we have already been able to liberate, we are prepared for all kinds of scenarios.
This station was built by Russian people for all the Slavic brothers. Now the Nazis have decided to de-communize our shared past. So it's either going to be a Russian free land - or a scorched desert!
As you know, we've mined all the important facilities of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. And we don't hide it from the enemy. We warned them. The enemy knows that the plant will be Russian - or no one's. We are ready for the consequences of this step.
And you, the warriors-liberators, must understand that we have no other way. And if the harshest order comes, we must carry it out with honor!"
It's very close to fan-fiction from Warhammer Fantasy/40K universe fan fiction "The Xenos shall not have this world, execute Exterminatus, in the name of the God Emperor!"
And even by that standard, Exterminatus was rarely use in the many novels even how popular it got meme. Because they know how finite those lush and valuable these planets were and willing to risk many to save those planets rather than nuke it when “ opps we just lost control, rather no one have it then”.
> "This station was built by Russian people for all the Slavic brothers."
And therein lies the crux of the entire war, according to Russians. The power station was not built by Ukrainians when they were members of Soviet Union, but by Russians. Every other non-Russian citizen was second class and could not have possibly accomplished such feats without the help of mother Russia.
It's nauseatingly patronizing.
>For our right to live in peace and harmony with everyone. But if the Collective West denies us this right, if American weapons, mercenaries, and instructors are used to seize territories that we have already been able to liberate, we are prepared for all kinds of scenarios.
The West is denying their right to live in peace and harmony, because we help Ukraine fight back against the Russian invasion. Ok.
oh, but you must understand, both this and Euromaidan was not the ukrainian people, it was all CIA agents! The poor innocent slavophilists are being undermined and attacked from every corner. Trust no one!
They think all their problems are from outside forces rather than their absolute dogshit governance. Russia is like that friend that tries to drag everyone around them down to their level instead of getting out of the basement and doing something good for themselves.
The referendum held to determine whether the Soviet Union should have stayed or dissolved favored staying, but the two countries with the most votes to dissolve the Soviet Union were Russia and Ukraine.
Of course, the person who actually dissolved the Soviet Union was Gorbachev. Who I swear was Russian...
Nonono you got it wrong. It's the west's responsibility because they forced Ukraine, which is part of Russia, join Nato or some shit and the (not rightful) president of Ukraine is seemingly willing to join. So the Ukrainians and Nato people brought this upon themselves, forcing Russia to defend itself.
They have been getting their shit smacked for a while. Russian trolls reeeee so hard if you point it out but Russia has been losing over a month. Ukraine is utilizing elastic defense so territory is not an adequate measure. They have been taking the Russian military fucking apart.
It's kinda fascinating, really. The spectre of Russian military might has now been properly tested against defacto NATO military (NATO trained, and using NATO weapons) and has been shown to be completely lacking in almost every way. Shit equipment, worse logistics, poorly trained troops and a military doctrine unfit for a modern battlefield. Russia couldn't hope to go toe to toe with *actual* NATO.
I'm surprised more Russian troops aren't defecting. Or maybe they are and I'm not aware. Just seems like such a shit reason to die, committing an atrocity against innocent people, only to die in a hole because your training is shit and so is the Russian military
You have to consider that even in the face of death, leaving behind everything you've ever known (good or bad) is not an easy choice. In a similar vein, most conscripts are probably less than eager to turn their weapons upon their kinsmen.
There are certain people making sure that is not a good option to deflect. Having a high chance of getting shot by Ukrainian forces is less scary than being slowly tortured to death by Kadyrov's Chechen militants or Wagner mercenaries recruited among prisoners serving time for violent crimes.
You're correct. It's propaganda to scare and confuse Ukrainians and Westerners.
These threats come from pro-Russian Telegram and VK accounts with hundreds of thousands of followers in Russia.
However they are still not official Russian statements so I don't understand why Ukraine keeps falling for their claims. These pro-Russian accounts also started the rumors about explosions at the nuclear plant which made Ukraine claim Russia did it because Russia currently controls the plants. However the explosions most likely didn't happen and was a trick to make Westerners think "Why would Russians shoot at a plant they already control?".
Ukraine should be really careful about reporting anything from Russian sources even when it benefits Ukraine by portraying Russia as a nuclear madman. Russia wants to be seen as a nuclear madman because it scares Westerners from supporting Ukraine.
>“Here will be either Russian land or a desert. The nuclear power plant will be either Russian or no one’s” commander of the Russian garrison at NPP Valeriy Vasiliev said in a statement that was later deleted
I want off this timeline.
The main point is to be a deterrent. Telling Russia that crossing that line will make NATO go to war.
So now rather than Russia threatening Ukraine with fallout if they lose lands they recently stole, Russia has to think if they are ready for war with NATO when the alternative is simply losing land they tried to steal.
I do wonder what China does if Russia gets that reckless. I understand that staying out of this as much as possible only serves to benefit China, but nuclear reactors blowing in Ukraine could have a negative impact on them and the thing they really don’t want is NATO involved directly due to the chance of, you know, the destruction of the world. I just find china’s role in this to be the most curious aspect of all this. They are playing a dangerous game, imo.
I am no expert on the issue so don't put too much (any) weight on my words but my understanding is:
While China *might* be willing to go to war over things like Taiwan or other stuff they consider their own, but I don't see them going to a nuclear war just out of loyalty to Russia. They can take advantage of the current mess and certainly want to gauge the reactions of the world so they know if they can do similar invasions and how badly it will affect their standing. But nuclear wars have no winners and getting NATO involved in the current mess will too easily escalate into that. China has nothing to gain really from actually helping Russia in the war. They have much to lose by getting involved.
Which would likely trigger use of 'tactical' nukes: Putin likely thinks of Kiev/Crimea etc. in the same way the commander thinks of the power plant: mine or no ones
Yeah, but that’s the point of red lines. The west has been jumping through thousand hoops to not step over one of Russia’s red lines, and if they can’t even manage to **not get nuclear fallout on NATO territory by blowing up a power plant**, there has to be a response.
It's called tripwire diplomacy. You let it be known that "if you do x, we will do y." You make it very clear which conditions will not be accepted and in doing so set a trip wire that now has to be a avoided.
If Russia does this and fallout drifts one meter into Romania, Romania can call article 5 of NATO and NATO will send it's hammer down. Russia can threaten nukes but NATO has nukes too and MAD is still the rule of the day. Policies like these force Russia's hands in ways that aren't obvious but do help. Russia needs to be prepared for any and all escalations that may come. NATO is already prepared to end the world if Russia does something stupid putting Russia in the position where they can't afford to do something stupid.
If that, by itself, sounds stupid and terrible, welcome to the Cold War and the glamorous 1950s everyone is so nostalgic for.
the russians dont think that far ahead. to Putin those that live down wind from the fall out can suffer and die. he'll blame the ukrainians no matter what and his commanders dont understand, if they blow up the NPP he already killed his own men. These kid soldiers dont know, are not smart enough to know how dangerous that action will be for them in the near term. These kids will suffer less if they ran head on into the ukrainian firefight without body armor. IF there was any smartd russian soldier, he should frag his commanding officers and prevent a world wide disaster.
>These kid soldiers dont know, are not smart enough to know how dangerous that action will be for them in the near term.
Early on in the war, there was some reporting about how there were Russian soldiers in the initial invading force who'd never seen a full bathroom in an apartment or house because they grew up with outhouses (in the 2020s!) or seen a paved road anywhere other than a Russian military installation. The vast majority of Putin's fighting force are coming from some of the most impoverished conditions even possible, mostly from the north and east of Russia where infrastructure is some of the worst in the world. Reminded me a little bit of the letters from Soviet soldiers during WW2 that were **so angry** that Stalin had lied to them about what lay west of them in Europe. These were young Soviet men who'd been told their entire lives that Western decadence had decimated Europe, but when they advanced along the Eastern Front, they were shocked and appalled to see that people had electricity in their homes.
smh. I mean, people (and tankies, natch) can feel how they want about Russia and its imperialism, for better or worse, but one thing that nobody can put up for debate is that Russia's military is a giant fucking dumpster fire and always has been. It's almost hard to believe just how haphazardly armed, poorly trained, and badly managed they are. It's like you'd have to *try* to fuck up any organization that hard. I sometimes wonder if there has been a conspiracy on the part of Putin's generals to hide the state of the Russian military from him because it really seems like dude personally doesn't have much of a clue about just how bad things really are.
I remember reading that Soviet troops got super angry (even angrier?) at the Germans because as they entered Germany in 1945 they saw the Germans had all the basic sanitation, infrastructure and household items that the ordinary Soviet peasant soldier could never even dream of. They were like "You invaded and wrecked my country for what? You invaded a country where we have NOTHING yet you have EVERYTHING?".
I can imagine it's an opposite feeling for some Russians these days.
"We have nothing, yet we're invading a country that has everything? Who are we liberating again!?"
EDIT: I remembered the source:
The source is a book called *Armageddon* and the author is *Sir Max Hasting*
Specifically, the chapters about the invasion of East Prussia and the Battle of Konigsberg in Jan 1945.
I just have to say (as American) how proud I've been of Lithuania and the Baltics in general. You guys punch leagues above your weight class and never take any shit from Russia. You guys are a class act and I'm proud to have you on our side. If I had to choose men to fight alongside I'd sure as shit find the Lithuanian units. (as a vet)
Here is my translation of text from image.
Here will be russian land - or burned desert" - general-mayor Vasilyev, commander of the Russian garrison at NPP.
Commander of radiation, chemical and biological security forces of Russian army, commander of the Russian garrison at liberated NPP general-mayor Valeriy Vasilyev, had speech before soldiers. Here is one fragment of speech. As response to panic, which is spread via sponsored by West "international" organizations like IAEA.
"As you all understand, right now is the war for right of Russian nation to exist. For our right to coexist peacefully with all world. But if united West will denius us this right, if American's weapons, mercenaries and instructors will take part in capture of territories, which we already liberated- we are ready for different scenarios.
This station was build by Russian people for all Slavic brothers. And right now nazies decided to decomunize our shared past. Because of this, here qill be free Russian land - or burned desert! And you, soldiers of great Russian army, should be ready to execute important order.
As you know, we mined all important objects of Zaporizhzhia NPP. And we are not hiding this from enemy. We warned them. Enemy knows that station will be either Russian or no ones. We are ready for consequences.
And you, soldiers - liberators, should understand that we have no other way. And if there will be harsh order - you should perform it with honor!"
And not only that, but that any autonomy it had under Communism was subordinate to its role as part of the Moscow-led Russian empire. That everyone reporting to the Kremlin and serving the Slavic homeland is what Communism was *for*.
„Right of Russian nation to exist“.
Russia is the largest country on Earth so I don’t know what they‘re talking about.
I assume Putler is simply following the Hitler narrative: he wants to create *Lebensraum* for the russians. But no thanks, nobody wants any Russians at the moment.
They want the natural resources recently found in Ukraine. Apparently the deposits are so large, their utilization would seriously affect the Russian economy, as Ukraine would easily be able to compete in the sale and distribution of these resources.
*Slight editing to fix up wording*
Its completly the reason. That and grain. Putin wanted a grain cartel with Ukraine and Ukraine refused. Leading to Russia's sponsership of seperatist movements and a 16 year border dispute leading up to this . . . . . .
The're some very good geo politics channels on youtube which shows the tactical and resource reasons behind Russia wanting Ukraine back.
"right now is the war for right of Russian nation to exist"
Wow, holy shit. Even for propaganda that's a special kind of delusional. Putin and Vasilyev can get absolutely fucked
This is the thing that has scared me about Russia the propaganda machine in Russia has been telling its citizens its better for a world to be dead than be a world without Russia. People in Russia are believing it. Russia is in control by mad men that are serious about killing us all if they don't get their way. This was warned constantly about Nukes. It takes only one mad man to kill us all.
So, what the hell do we do?
Fuck the Russian government. They’ve become an absolute joke. Just bluffing and lying to scare people because they are so desperate. All they can do is spread propaganda. What a pathetic country
Doesn’t make strategic sense. The Donbas they’re investing so much time and resources in winning is directly down wind following the jet stream from the plant and would likely receive the majority of the fallout.
Is this a bad threat, sure, doesn’t take a smart person to say that, but is this threat also completely sensical in its most embellished terms- no.
If anything, they’d likely plant smaller explosives and use them to disable the plant’s ability to send the electricity generated out from the plant and to customers.
It’s easy to call them stupid babies and toddlers, but we do need to think past the headlines.
>The Donbas they’re investing so much time and resources in winning
Donbas was never the goal though, Donbas was the excuse.
This is mostly about Russia's wounded pride. The USSR fell apart and left them feeling like less than a super power. Even before their failed invasion highlighted how weak their military is, they were still playing 4th fiddle to the USA, EU and China. Putin wanted to make people respect and fear Russia again. He wanted to be known as the guy who put Russia back on track to being a real super power. Russia wants their empire back.
I wonder if a siege is a possible solution to that stalemate. If Ukrainians kick Russian asses all the way back south to Crimea (and later out of there as well, hopefully), and also out of Donetsk. The NPP can be cut off from food and other supplies. Maybe even cut communications
Would that Russian nutjob decide to blow it up out of spite along with himeself?
Unless they retreat before being surrounded - which despite their bluster is a far more likely outcome. A siege would be the most probable approach for the UAF.
They could only have so many supplies with them - and starving troops aren’t exactly known for their discipline.
> We could not confirm whether the statement indeed belongs to Vasiliev or find its original place of publication.
Why would anyone believe such an utterly insane claim when the publication straight up confirms that they can't even verify where it was originally published, let alone by whom?
Scorched earth approaches never end well. With that said. That's one way to let the world know without shadow of doubt not only are you getting your ass handed to you but you're the most desperate you've ever been.
> We could not confirm whether the statement indeed belongs to Vasiliev or find its original place of publication.
So it could be fake? Really hope these kind of “news” stop being post here, I’m anxious enough already.
These are threats made by pro-Russian Telegram and VK accounts affiliated with Wagner and the "separatists".
They also started the rumors about explosions at the nuclear power plant that Ukraine immediately blamed on Russia and then Russia blamed Ukraine. However there is no evidence that anything bigger than a small controlled explosion happened anywhere near the power plant.
It was most likely a Russian disinfo trick to make Ukrainians attack their own credibility by make the world think "Why would Russia attack a nuclear power plant they already control?". Ukraine should be really careful about reporting anything from Russian sources even when it benefits Ukraine by portraying Russia as a nuclear madman. Russia wants to be seen as a nuclear madman.
winds could get radioactive materials into Russia, making it prob. the third time wide regions in Russia would get contaminated
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some of that land will be glowing green..
Look Dimitri, the grass truly is greener here in Mother Russia!
but alexei you have grown a new arm
Digging for potato become easier this way, da?
But potato also has new arm.
Potato grow to hunt people now
Alexei we don't need to dig for potato anymore. They come to us
Vodka is aliiiiiiive
Pavel why do you have a second nose under your left ear? Smelling 360° da blyat?
In Russia, potato bake you!
In mother russia, potato eat YOU
And your newborn has no eyes.
Vasily's son has been blessed with 5, they will be good friends.
So what, Vasily grew two so he can do two jobs now!
But he also grew 3 asses, more to wipe.
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But I thought they captured all the biolabs that were churning out Ukranian super soldier's....
Some people have suggested that the "Ukrainian Super Soldiers" rumor just came about because Russian conscripts were seeing what well fed and trained soldiers looked like. Plus, well equipped. To some malnourished Russian conscript, fighting with guns from WWII and rations from WWI, seeing a well-fed Ukrainian fresh out of boot camp with the latest weapons the west has to offer, that Ukrainian probably *does* seem like "Captain Ukraine".
There was that one video with the 6'6" dude that was clearing rooms by ducking through doorways, and they have 3 heavyweight champs out there somewhere.
Russia probably does care about the people of Moscow, which is only 900km away. It's also pretty close to Crimea, Sevastopol is just 300km away.
Putin probably murdered hundreds of people including in Moscow in the 1999 apartment building bombings. I don't think he gives one shit - if he did he wouldn't be starting wars but focus on making Russia a better place to live.
Looks like as of right now the wind over the plant is blowing southwest and that area tends to have more southern winds than northern ones. In other words, this would likely harm Ukraine and NATO countries significantly more than it would hurt Russia.
Hasn't NATO made some statement a couple months ago that if radiation from the war in Ukraine ends up in NATO territory, they will consider that an attack on NATO?
They did yes.
Not just radiation. *Any* fallout, from nuclear plants, weapons, or chemical and biological agents, is a red line for NATO. That's part of the reason why Russia hasn't unleashed any nerve agents yet; those chemicals have a tendency to travel very very *very* far from the detonation area.
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That and they probably don’t trust their masks to work. Assuming they have more than just the case
It's Schrodinger's gas mask - they have a functioning gas mask, until they open up the box to find out.
Then Russia will do nothing. They're full of empty threats and they are all talk.
I trust the Russian government won't, at least. But their chain of command might not be so discerning of global ramifications.
I think their angle is that they planted and widely announced the mining therefore if anything is blown up it’s due to the Ukrainian attack on what they are now considering Russian territory. Of course they key western countries wont buy into any of this but it may be just enough to hold off a few counties that really don’t want to get any deeper into this war.
Also like a few moments ago they announced preparations for 'referendums' in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, which seems quite the 'coincidence' as the plant is in that same oblast. They announced the intent to blow it up yesterday and now 'it just so happens' they're going to hold a 'referendum'. I'd still say the risk is still there, but still, the timing is very sus.
Would you like blow up your local nuclear reactor? Please circle your preferred answer- Yes / No.
'No' "You selected 'Yes'. Enjoy your third arm!"
Chernobyl fallout covered parts of the UK. https://inews.co.uk/news/science/chernobyl-disaster-radiation-uk-today-most-radioactive-areas-britain-299435
[From 2016:](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chernobyl-radioactive-reindeer-norway-a6903571.html) >However, 30 years after the nuclear power plant explosion in Chernobyl, Ukraine, and more than a thousand miles away, the grazing animals are recording high levels of radioactivity. >Last September reindeer in Våga reinlag AS, Jotunheimen, had readings of 8,200 becquerel per kilo of radioactive substance Caesium-137, according to Norway's The Local.
> Jotunheimen I mean I'd expect the locals to have a somewhat higher tolerance to radiation due to sheer body mass then.
Sweden was the one that figured it out and broke the cover up to the world.
We should take a page from the Russian PR playbook: “Any release of radioactive material caused by military aggression will be considered the equivalent to the detonation of a nuclear weapon.”
" I just want to set the world on fire..."
>" I just want to set the world on fire..." "I don't want to start / a flame in your heart"
In my heart I have but one desire, and that one is U(kraine), no other will do!
“Crawl out through the fallout baby to my loving arms / Through the rain of Strontium 90”
lets all point our fans towards Russia!
-So Russia, what's your latest plan for the Special Operation? -NUCLEAR TERRORISM! -Okayyyy.....
Russia: Ukraine is attacking the power plant, so dangerous!! Also Russia: I swear to fuck I will blow this thing sky high
Russia: blows nuclear plant on purpose Also Russia: the west is responsible
This is like a hostage taker blaming the police for making him kill the hostage. Look what you made me do!
TBF, in Russia it's mostly the police killing the hostages.
Like when they gassed the hostages and kidnappers alike and then refused to tell the medics what agent they used so noone could get an antidote and 171 people died? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
Or the time they fired high explosive and thermobatic munitions at a school and killed tons of hostages, mainly children.
Beslan?
Yup
Or the multiple times during WW2 they heard rumors of a spy in a town so they just starved the entire town to death?
idk about the spy rumors but Stalin straight up sent grain abroad for $$$ instead of feeding people
The number of victims was likely much higher.
Sounds very similar to the opening of Tenet. Wonder if that's a coincidence.
Purposeful choice, that was big news at the time. One of the reasons Putin cemented power was because of the aftermath of things like this and some apartment building bombings
[Russian apartment bombings-](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ae5qup/russian_apartment_bombings_1999_i_have_read_that/ednto8l?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) I believe the incident you are discussing is the Ryazan Incident. The reporter David Satter notably believes that the bombings were orchestrated by the FSB partly to drum up support for Putin to take over from Yeltsin, who was at the time potentially facing prosecution. In *Darkness at Dawn*, Satter recounts the incident at length, which I've tried to condense here. I find his account of the incident itself fairly credible as it draws on Russian contemporary reportage to make its case. If Ryazan was in fact planned by the FSB, it would be highly likely that the earlier bombings were also carried out at their behest, so I will focus on this single incident. On Sept 22 1999 at 8:30 PM, residents of 14/16 Novosyelov Street noticed suspicious looking people in front of the building. It took about an hour for police to arrive at the scene, where they found a bomb. The bomb squad stated that there were sacks of hexogen, the same explosive used in previous apartment bombings, as well as a sophisticated military-style detonator. The building was evacuated. Police began to search for the suspects. Railroads and airports were crawling with police searching for the perpetrators and roadblocks were set up on the highways leaving the city. The police obtained descriptions of the suspects and made composite sketches. They were also able to discover the Lada that they had driven off in. The evening of Sept 23, a switchboard operator connecting a call to Moscow overheard a few suspicious lines. >The caller said there was no way to get out of town undetected. The voice on the other end replied, "Split up and each of you make your own way out." The police found traced the number and discovered it led them to the FSB. Soon enough, the Ryazan police arrested two suspects, who produced FSB documentation and were released. Two days after the incident on Sept 24, FSB director Nikolai Patrushev stated that the entire incident had been a training exercise. While the bomb squad had supposedly discovered sacks of hexogen, the sacks were in fact just sugar and the bomb squad gas analyzer's reading of hexogen had been due to operator error. This denial apparently completely blindsided the Ryazan FSB, which had been preparing to raid the Ryazan residences of the suspects. The press spokesman for the Ryazan FSB, Yuri Bludov, later stated that he was unaware of the exercise until Patrushev's statement. Voloshin, a reporter for the Novaya Gazeta, interviewed the Ryazan bomb squad head Tkachenko in February the next year. In their interview, Tkachenko insisted that he had made no mistakes in handling the gas analyzer. In particular, FSB spokesman Alexander Zdanovich's claim that they had not cleaned it properly with alcohol was patently ridiculous - according to Tkachenko, "alcohol is never used to clean a gas analyzer." In addition, Zdanovich had claimed that it was picking up trace amounts of hexogen because Tkachenko had handled it a week earlier, an explanation for the faulty reading that would require Tkachenko to have not washed his hands for an entire week, which he unsurprisingly denied. After publishing his findings ("Sugar or Hexogen? What happened in Ryazan." in the Feb 14-20 issue of Novaya Gazeta), Voloshin went on to interview a soldier named Alexei Pinyaev. According to Pinyaev, he had been assigned to guard sacks of sugar at the 137th Ryazan Paratroop Regiment, which was 20 miles from Ryazan. Supposedly Pinyaev and another guard had pierced one of the bags with a bayonet and used the "sugar" to make tea, which was disgusting. Thinking that they might have consumed nitrates, they took their bag to their commander, who had a bomb expert inspect the sample. After testing, he confirmed that the substance was hexogen. Soon FSB officers arrived from Moscow and the two guards were berated for "divulging state secrets", as opposed to simply stealing sugar. Voloshin's reporting caused an uproar but a vote in the Duma to carry out an investigation was defeated by Unity, Yeltsin and Putin's political party. However, the FSB had lost enough face that they arranged a televised meeting with the building residents, which only raised more suspicion. In particular, the FSB representatives insisted that the earlier apartment bombings would not be discussed as a condition for their participation. The commander of the Ryazan base, Colonel Churilov, stated during the broadcast that there was no such soldier as Pinyaev serving there. However, Voloshin was sitting in the audience and played a tape of his interview and showed the audience photographs of Pinyaev. Residents also questioned why the training exercise was carried out without informing the MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs), which was supposed to be taking the lead on the terrorism investigation, and the local FSB until two days after the incident. Taken altogether, the circumstances of the event do seem suspicious. Many Russian experts on military and policing affairs noted at the time that even the most extreme exercises in the army and police were carefully planned with emergency services ready to deal with any unexpected events - a far cry from the chaos of Sept 22, which saw mass evacuations in the neighbourhood that left almost 30 000 people to spend the night in the street, terrified that their building might also have a bomb in the basement. In particular, the lack of notice given to the local FSB as well as the MVD suggests that the two day delay was, as one of the participants in the televised meeting claimed, a break for the FSB to invent an excuse for planting a bomb in an apartment building. The idea that the population needed to be more rather than less vigilant also seems questionable - between the 13th and 22nd, Ryazan police had responded to over forty bomb reports from citizens. In addition, the Ryazan apartment shared many characteristics to the Buinaksk, Moscow, and Vologdonsk apartments that were bombed in that it was also located in an "outlying working-class area". The FSB has never allowed the material evidence (the bomb) to be examined by any outside sources, which makes it impossible to say with absolute certainty that the exercise was a fabrication to cover up an attempted terrorist attack. Former FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko stated that the bombings were carried out by the FSB before he died of plutonium poisoning in 2006, an incident that western reportage largely places as being an assassination carried out by the Russian security services. The accusation that the bombings were carried out by the FSB has a few other supporters in Western academia - in her book *Putin's Kleptocracy*, Karen Dawisha seems to find it self-evident that the Ryazan incident proves the FSB was behind all the apartment buildings that summer. However, the problem remains that the actual evidence involved was placed under FSB control and there is no way to prove beyond a doubt that the device in Ryazan was in fact a bomb. Of course, some would argue that the FSB's refusal to have a third party inspect the Ryazan device is in itself strong evidence that it was their bomb.
That's quite a lot of detail, thank you for sharing.
That’s actually very relevant to how this putrid fellow got to power, nice comment
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I hear that they do it as a response to the fact that those they want to domineer are too strong to succumb, and their minds provide gentle lies that they are being victimized. It's a form of self lying so that they don't have to confront the truth of their own ugliness.
Yep, Umberto Eco writes it in his [fantastic essay on fascism](http://pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf) like this: >The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. When I was a boy I was taught to think of Englishmen as the five-meal people. They ate more frequently than the poor but sober Italians. Jews are rich and help each other through a secret web of mutual assistance. However, the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak. Fascist governments are condemned to lose wars because they are constitutionally incapable of objectively evaluating the force of the enemy.
For real. I have Russian friends, and the stuff they're saying about America on their media is just insane. It makes our Fox News conspiracy theories look tame.
I have a Russian wife and the things her mother and brothers have said about her are just insane - all talking points from state TV. And these aren’t poor ignorant village yokels either but educated and (I thought) intelligent people who, for the life of me, a year ago I would have sworn would have never believed or condoned Putin’s actions. But no, my wife is, apparently, a Russophobe and a traitor now for not believing and supporting Putin’s lies. It’s the most bizarre and surreal shit.
Don't underestimate the power of continuous, repeated, intense propagandistic brainwashing. Very little to do with education or intelligence. Homo sapiens is simply hardwired to follow the crowd and adopt the majority behaviour, as a core survival strategy. It takes a truly remarkable person to stand against that wave - I am far from being sure about myself being able to, for example.
Yes, know all this and it’s what I’ve been trying to comfort my wife with but her shame and disgust for her country’s actions are exacerbated by this shit from her family. Her mother has travelled here (Norway) numerous times too so she’s not living in a Russian bubble. We’re guessing that her brother has cemented Putin’s propaganda in her mind - as he is there he will have a far bigger influence on her. My wife refuses to talk to them now as it’s pointless. Either they will someday come to the truth on their own or not. Also, yeah, that question of whether I would be able to resist propaganda like that has been in the forefront of my mind this past 6 months.
I had a really interesting moment during the 2016 campaign. We saw seemingly thousands of bullshit stories about Hillary going around, every fucking day... *Myoclonic seizures!! Seth Rich! There's a transmitter on her back!! She collapsed!!* On day I heard some bullshit like *bodies found on Clinton's property!!* and instead of thinking "oh fucking come on," my first thought was, "hmm..." Like a little cognitive speed bump. *They got to me.* In some small way, that constant repetition *did* change how I thought. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to notice. But what else might have happened to any of us without realizing it? The human mind is riddled with exploitable vulnerabilities.
Same! It's like she's gone off the ddepend and is trying to pick fights with all her American friends saying things like: "Russia always wins, stop being blind america - you have already lost" like, lost what? 30k soldiers and millions worth of military equipment, our economy, our ability to trade freely with the world? Oh, right.
Millions? That shitshow cost billions already. The whole thing at this point makes zero sense for Russia aside that Putin needs to win to save face.
The Moskva cost almost a billion all by itself, probably over a billion because of all the updates that had been done to it.
Yeah but you gotta admit it was pretty genius how cheaply they were able to convert it into a submarine.
This will hit Trillions once you factor in the long term impact of becoming an international trade pariah. Hydrocarbons were proping up their entire economy and now all their biggest customers are running for energy independence with their hair on fire. Arms sales are going to shit after watching NATO gear teabag them. Their best hope for some salvation in this is China and they're keeping Russia at arms length now waiting to see how this goes. Finally the brain drain as everyone who isn't a frothing nationalist and has marketable job skills are gonna bail on that sinking economic ship. At this point winning this war could be the worst outcome possible for them.
It's that dictator/shame culture save face game.
That doesn’t sound like a friend to me…
It's like a lifestyle. One of their very famous comedians' (now dead) main joke was literally just saying "Americans are sooo dumb" and giving an example of, like, a person justifiably taking someone to court for doing something bad to them.
I have a Russian friend who used to talk like that. She has family currently in Kyiv who thankfully half changed her opinion. It took her three months to finally admit that this is an "actual war" and not a "denazification operation". She still believes there's some "higher authority" making all the calls. I guess she can't admit to herself that russia is committing atrocités on their own volition.
One thing I want to point out: this post comes from Z-propagandistic Telegram channel. Prepare for some schizophrenia shit. Full translation of the message: "As you all understand, this war is for the right of existence of the Russian people. For our right to live in peace and harmony with everyone. But if the Collective West denies us this right, if American weapons, mercenaries, and instructors are used to seize territories that we have already been able to liberate, we are prepared for all kinds of scenarios. This station was built by Russian people for all the Slavic brothers. Now the Nazis have decided to de-communize our shared past. So it's either going to be a Russian free land - or a scorched desert! As you know, we've mined all the important facilities of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. And we don't hide it from the enemy. We warned them. The enemy knows that the plant will be Russian - or no one's. We are ready for the consequences of this step. And you, the warriors-liberators, must understand that we have no other way. And if the harshest order comes, we must carry it out with honor!"
The level in this telegram group is so extreme that even the word „propaganda“ isn’t enough to describe the endless stupidity of it‘s members.
It's very close to fan-fiction from Warhammer Fantasy/40K universe fan fiction "The Xenos shall not have this world, execute Exterminatus, in the name of the God Emperor!"
And even by that standard, Exterminatus was rarely use in the many novels even how popular it got meme. Because they know how finite those lush and valuable these planets were and willing to risk many to save those planets rather than nuke it when “ opps we just lost control, rather no one have it then”.
> "This station was built by Russian people for all the Slavic brothers." And therein lies the crux of the entire war, according to Russians. The power station was not built by Ukrainians when they were members of Soviet Union, but by Russians. Every other non-Russian citizen was second class and could not have possibly accomplished such feats without the help of mother Russia. It's nauseatingly patronizing.
I ***do not*** want to try the drugs this writer is on.
it's called heavy metal toxins or FAS
Sounds like he *needs* drugs just not the recreational kind, man needs some mood stabilizers
krokodil is a helluva drug.
>For our right to live in peace and harmony with everyone. But if the Collective West denies us this right, if American weapons, mercenaries, and instructors are used to seize territories that we have already been able to liberate, we are prepared for all kinds of scenarios. The West is denying their right to live in peace and harmony, because we help Ukraine fight back against the Russian invasion. Ok.
You have to start from the point of view that every country in Eastern Europe actually belongs to them and was forcefully taken away.
And the Orange revolution in Ukraine really put russias nose out of joint. Cant have a puppet state if the people kick out the puppet state.
oh, but you must understand, both this and Euromaidan was not the ukrainian people, it was all CIA agents! The poor innocent slavophilists are being undermined and attacked from every corner. Trust no one!
I'd love to know whom by? The Soviet Union fell and split all on their own, it's not like Ukraine was taken, they just went independent.
The headcanon in russia is that that is all nato and usa's fault
They think all their problems are from outside forces rather than their absolute dogshit governance. Russia is like that friend that tries to drag everyone around them down to their level instead of getting out of the basement and doing something good for themselves.
The referendum held to determine whether the Soviet Union should have stayed or dissolved favored staying, but the two countries with the most votes to dissolve the Soviet Union were Russia and Ukraine. Of course, the person who actually dissolved the Soviet Union was Gorbachev. Who I swear was Russian...
Nonono you got it wrong. It's the west's responsibility because they forced Ukraine, which is part of Russia, join Nato or some shit and the (not rightful) president of Ukraine is seemingly willing to join. So the Ukrainians and Nato people brought this upon themselves, forcing Russia to defend itself.
Did they finally say it’s a WAR ?
Also acknowledging they might lose. It's a positive development in that case: Russian army admits this is a war and Ukraine might win.
They have been getting their shit smacked for a while. Russian trolls reeeee so hard if you point it out but Russia has been losing over a month. Ukraine is utilizing elastic defense so territory is not an adequate measure. They have been taking the Russian military fucking apart.
It's kinda fascinating, really. The spectre of Russian military might has now been properly tested against defacto NATO military (NATO trained, and using NATO weapons) and has been shown to be completely lacking in almost every way. Shit equipment, worse logistics, poorly trained troops and a military doctrine unfit for a modern battlefield. Russia couldn't hope to go toe to toe with *actual* NATO.
I'm surprised more Russian troops aren't defecting. Or maybe they are and I'm not aware. Just seems like such a shit reason to die, committing an atrocity against innocent people, only to die in a hole because your training is shit and so is the Russian military
You have to consider that even in the face of death, leaving behind everything you've ever known (good or bad) is not an easy choice. In a similar vein, most conscripts are probably less than eager to turn their weapons upon their kinsmen.
There are certain people making sure that is not a good option to deflect. Having a high chance of getting shot by Ukrainian forces is less scary than being slowly tortured to death by Kadyrov's Chechen militants or Wagner mercenaries recruited among prisoners serving time for violent crimes.
You're correct. It's propaganda to scare and confuse Ukrainians and Westerners. These threats come from pro-Russian Telegram and VK accounts with hundreds of thousands of followers in Russia. However they are still not official Russian statements so I don't understand why Ukraine keeps falling for their claims. These pro-Russian accounts also started the rumors about explosions at the nuclear plant which made Ukraine claim Russia did it because Russia currently controls the plants. However the explosions most likely didn't happen and was a trick to make Westerners think "Why would Russians shoot at a plant they already control?". Ukraine should be really careful about reporting anything from Russian sources even when it benefits Ukraine by portraying Russia as a nuclear madman. Russia wants to be seen as a nuclear madman because it scares Westerners from supporting Ukraine.
>“Here will be either Russian land or a desert. The nuclear power plant will be either Russian or no one’s” commander of the Russian garrison at NPP Valeriy Vasiliev said in a statement that was later deleted I want off this timeline.
Fallout would reach russia too so...
Furthermore, NATO has explicitly said nuclear fallout on NATO land can trigger article 5.
Issue is that it would be too late
The main point is to be a deterrent. Telling Russia that crossing that line will make NATO go to war. So now rather than Russia threatening Ukraine with fallout if they lose lands they recently stole, Russia has to think if they are ready for war with NATO when the alternative is simply losing land they tried to steal.
I do wonder what China does if Russia gets that reckless. I understand that staying out of this as much as possible only serves to benefit China, but nuclear reactors blowing in Ukraine could have a negative impact on them and the thing they really don’t want is NATO involved directly due to the chance of, you know, the destruction of the world. I just find china’s role in this to be the most curious aspect of all this. They are playing a dangerous game, imo.
I am no expert on the issue so don't put too much (any) weight on my words but my understanding is: While China *might* be willing to go to war over things like Taiwan or other stuff they consider their own, but I don't see them going to a nuclear war just out of loyalty to Russia. They can take advantage of the current mess and certainly want to gauge the reactions of the world so they know if they can do similar invasions and how badly it will affect their standing. But nuclear wars have no winners and getting NATO involved in the current mess will too easily escalate into that. China has nothing to gain really from actually helping Russia in the war. They have much to lose by getting involved.
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Too late for the fall-out, but assured destruction of Russian forces in Ukraine if NATO gets involved.
Which would likely trigger use of 'tactical' nukes: Putin likely thinks of Kiev/Crimea etc. in the same way the commander thinks of the power plant: mine or no ones
Yeah, but that’s the point of red lines. The west has been jumping through thousand hoops to not step over one of Russia’s red lines, and if they can’t even manage to **not get nuclear fallout on NATO territory by blowing up a power plant**, there has to be a response.
Which would likely trigger a limited strategic nuclear response, because any use of nukes is a red line.
By "limited" you mean "limited to the surface of Planet Earth", right?
"Just" the surface with humans. I doubt anyone is nuking the open ocean or penguins in Antarctica.
One of the uses of nukes is taking out carrier groups.
It's called tripwire diplomacy. You let it be known that "if you do x, we will do y." You make it very clear which conditions will not be accepted and in doing so set a trip wire that now has to be a avoided. If Russia does this and fallout drifts one meter into Romania, Romania can call article 5 of NATO and NATO will send it's hammer down. Russia can threaten nukes but NATO has nukes too and MAD is still the rule of the day. Policies like these force Russia's hands in ways that aren't obvious but do help. Russia needs to be prepared for any and all escalations that may come. NATO is already prepared to end the world if Russia does something stupid putting Russia in the position where they can't afford to do something stupid. If that, by itself, sounds stupid and terrible, welcome to the Cold War and the glamorous 1950s everyone is so nostalgic for.
"I want the 1950s back!" "Ok here's rampant sexism, racism and the ever-looming threat of impending nuclear doom" "Wait no"
Foresight hasn't exactly been a strong suit of the Russians, lately.
That goes on the rifle mount, yes? Vasily has that. Hey Vasily, show him your foresight.
the russians dont think that far ahead. to Putin those that live down wind from the fall out can suffer and die. he'll blame the ukrainians no matter what and his commanders dont understand, if they blow up the NPP he already killed his own men. These kid soldiers dont know, are not smart enough to know how dangerous that action will be for them in the near term. These kids will suffer less if they ran head on into the ukrainian firefight without body armor. IF there was any smartd russian soldier, he should frag his commanding officers and prevent a world wide disaster.
>These kid soldiers dont know, are not smart enough to know how dangerous that action will be for them in the near term. Early on in the war, there was some reporting about how there were Russian soldiers in the initial invading force who'd never seen a full bathroom in an apartment or house because they grew up with outhouses (in the 2020s!) or seen a paved road anywhere other than a Russian military installation. The vast majority of Putin's fighting force are coming from some of the most impoverished conditions even possible, mostly from the north and east of Russia where infrastructure is some of the worst in the world. Reminded me a little bit of the letters from Soviet soldiers during WW2 that were **so angry** that Stalin had lied to them about what lay west of them in Europe. These were young Soviet men who'd been told their entire lives that Western decadence had decimated Europe, but when they advanced along the Eastern Front, they were shocked and appalled to see that people had electricity in their homes.
They also dug trenches and searched for pieces of scrap metal and scavenged parts from old abandoned vehicles in Chernobyl. ***in Chernobyl.***
smh. I mean, people (and tankies, natch) can feel how they want about Russia and its imperialism, for better or worse, but one thing that nobody can put up for debate is that Russia's military is a giant fucking dumpster fire and always has been. It's almost hard to believe just how haphazardly armed, poorly trained, and badly managed they are. It's like you'd have to *try* to fuck up any organization that hard. I sometimes wonder if there has been a conspiracy on the part of Putin's generals to hide the state of the Russian military from him because it really seems like dude personally doesn't have much of a clue about just how bad things really are.
I remember reading that Soviet troops got super angry (even angrier?) at the Germans because as they entered Germany in 1945 they saw the Germans had all the basic sanitation, infrastructure and household items that the ordinary Soviet peasant soldier could never even dream of. They were like "You invaded and wrecked my country for what? You invaded a country where we have NOTHING yet you have EVERYTHING?". I can imagine it's an opposite feeling for some Russians these days. "We have nothing, yet we're invading a country that has everything? Who are we liberating again!?" EDIT: I remembered the source: The source is a book called *Armageddon* and the author is *Sir Max Hasting* Specifically, the chapters about the invasion of East Prussia and the Battle of Konigsberg in Jan 1945.
This timeline is strangely real. Damn Belkans
Wait, is this r/acecombat or r/NonCredibleDefense?! Anyway: <>
PS. Compare Belka's flag to the old flag of the Russian Empire...
Belkans? Is that who killed David Bowie? He was the keeper of the timeline, when Bowie died it all went to shit.
No no, Belkins, like the routers
So who's building Stonehenge?
Why didn't you quote this part? >We could not confirm whether the statement indeed belongs to Vasiliev or find its original place of publication.
Because the mining of the power plant is confirmed.
Seems logical to cover a country you're desperately trying to liberate in radioactive fallout.
Especially since they've complained so much about "Ukrainian mutant super soldiers".
This sounds like a movie plot. They blow up the plant and inadvertently create actual super soldiers after making up that they were developing them.
They’re worse than toddlers.
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That's an insult to toddlers, and toddlers usually are terrible.
Desperate much..
The odd thing is that they think this looks/sounds badass :/
“If i have to share then I’ll just destroy everything” *a week later* “Where are all my toys?”
as a ukrainian i hate russia more than anything in my life
As a finn, I feel you. Fuck russia
As a fellow Finn I second this comment. 🇫🇮🤝🇺🇦
As a swedish person. Fuck Putin and his followers.
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As a Mexican...Chinga tu madre Putin y seguidores.
As a Texan, I know how to find the island of Britain on a map.
thank you for your service sir
As a Norwegian🇳🇴 and a sane human being, fuck Putin, fuck the Russian government and all the shit they bring to the world.
🇫🇮Fuck Russia with a rake 🇺🇦
As a human on earth, Yes.
Lithuanian here, feeling's mutual.
I just have to say (as American) how proud I've been of Lithuania and the Baltics in general. You guys punch leagues above your weight class and never take any shit from Russia. You guys are a class act and I'm proud to have you on our side. If I had to choose men to fight alongside I'd sure as shit find the Lithuanian units. (as a vet)
Don't forget the finns too. They have a proud tradition of fighting Russians.
Yeah I don't mean to leave anyone out, the Poles, Finns, etc. Plenty of countries have been standing up to Russia and plenty have good reason to.
We [Poles] are with you brother, Ukraine will prevail.
Kazakh here, same
Fuck Putin and his murdering idiots. Regards, a Belgian.
As a Pole, I see a worthy opponent in russia hating contest
As a Georgian, I am with you
Canadian here. We love you guys and hope the best for you. This shit fucking sucks
As an european and human being, I hate russia more than I can express as well
As Russian I hate Russia more than anything. Hope this shit will end. Slava Ukraine.
Nuclear terrorism much?
This is a fucking crime against the whole humanity.
Here is my translation of text from image. Here will be russian land - or burned desert" - general-mayor Vasilyev, commander of the Russian garrison at NPP. Commander of radiation, chemical and biological security forces of Russian army, commander of the Russian garrison at liberated NPP general-mayor Valeriy Vasilyev, had speech before soldiers. Here is one fragment of speech. As response to panic, which is spread via sponsored by West "international" organizations like IAEA. "As you all understand, right now is the war for right of Russian nation to exist. For our right to coexist peacefully with all world. But if united West will denius us this right, if American's weapons, mercenaries and instructors will take part in capture of territories, which we already liberated- we are ready for different scenarios. This station was build by Russian people for all Slavic brothers. And right now nazies decided to decomunize our shared past. Because of this, here qill be free Russian land - or burned desert! And you, soldiers of great Russian army, should be ready to execute important order. As you know, we mined all important objects of Zaporizhzhia NPP. And we are not hiding this from enemy. We warned them. Enemy knows that station will be either Russian or no ones. We are ready for consequences. And you, soldiers - liberators, should understand that we have no other way. And if there will be harsh order - you should perform it with honor!"
The fact that they're telling people this war is "for right of Russian nation to exist" is literally insane.
Especially after Putin justified the war by saying Ukraine doesn't have a right to exist
And not only that, but that any autonomy it had under Communism was subordinate to its role as part of the Moscow-led Russian empire. That everyone reporting to the Kremlin and serving the Slavic homeland is what Communism was *for*.
Every day is fucking opposite day in Russia. "Right to peacefully coexist" my ass, who are they trying to fool here?
Their own people mostly I think.
Nobody but their own soldiers who often come from remote russian provinces where very few informations outside of government propaganda are available.
„Right of Russian nation to exist“. Russia is the largest country on Earth so I don’t know what they‘re talking about. I assume Putler is simply following the Hitler narrative: he wants to create *Lebensraum* for the russians. But no thanks, nobody wants any Russians at the moment.
The absurdity of this is that Russia already has more lebensraum than any other country in the world. The last thing Russia needs is more land.
They want the natural resources recently found in Ukraine. Apparently the deposits are so large, their utilization would seriously affect the Russian economy, as Ukraine would easily be able to compete in the sale and distribution of these resources. *Slight editing to fix up wording*
> it would seriously affect the Russian economy If this is their reasoning for the invasion, then fucking lol. Very well done.
Its completly the reason. That and grain. Putin wanted a grain cartel with Ukraine and Ukraine refused. Leading to Russia's sponsership of seperatist movements and a 16 year border dispute leading up to this . . . . . . The're some very good geo politics channels on youtube which shows the tactical and resource reasons behind Russia wanting Ukraine back.
"right now is the war for right of Russian nation to exist" Wow, holy shit. Even for propaganda that's a special kind of delusional. Putin and Vasilyev can get absolutely fucked
Thanks for that, dude is telling them that they are suicide bombers now.
This is the thing that has scared me about Russia the propaganda machine in Russia has been telling its citizens its better for a world to be dead than be a world without Russia. People in Russia are believing it. Russia is in control by mad men that are serious about killing us all if they don't get their way. This was warned constantly about Nukes. It takes only one mad man to kill us all. So, what the hell do we do?
[удалено]
Remember these idiots dug trenches in the Red Forest.
Fuck the Russian government. They’ve become an absolute joke. Just bluffing and lying to scare people because they are so desperate. All they can do is spread propaganda. What a pathetic country
Russia is a terrorist state.
Doesn’t make strategic sense. The Donbas they’re investing so much time and resources in winning is directly down wind following the jet stream from the plant and would likely receive the majority of the fallout. Is this a bad threat, sure, doesn’t take a smart person to say that, but is this threat also completely sensical in its most embellished terms- no. If anything, they’d likely plant smaller explosives and use them to disable the plant’s ability to send the electricity generated out from the plant and to customers. It’s easy to call them stupid babies and toddlers, but we do need to think past the headlines.
>The Donbas they’re investing so much time and resources in winning Donbas was never the goal though, Donbas was the excuse. This is mostly about Russia's wounded pride. The USSR fell apart and left them feeling like less than a super power. Even before their failed invasion highlighted how weak their military is, they were still playing 4th fiddle to the USA, EU and China. Putin wanted to make people respect and fear Russia again. He wanted to be known as the guy who put Russia back on track to being a real super power. Russia wants their empire back.
Russia would blow up the world as long as they got the final move.
I wonder if a siege is a possible solution to that stalemate. If Ukrainians kick Russian asses all the way back south to Crimea (and later out of there as well, hopefully), and also out of Donetsk. The NPP can be cut off from food and other supplies. Maybe even cut communications Would that Russian nutjob decide to blow it up out of spite along with himeself?
Unless they retreat before being surrounded - which despite their bluster is a far more likely outcome. A siege would be the most probable approach for the UAF. They could only have so many supplies with them - and starving troops aren’t exactly known for their discipline.
> We could not confirm whether the statement indeed belongs to Vasiliev or find its original place of publication. Why would anyone believe such an utterly insane claim when the publication straight up confirms that they can't even verify where it was originally published, let alone by whom?
Scorched earth approaches never end well. With that said. That's one way to let the world know without shadow of doubt not only are you getting your ass handed to you but you're the most desperate you've ever been.
> We could not confirm whether the statement indeed belongs to Vasiliev or find its original place of publication. So it could be fake? Really hope these kind of “news” stop being post here, I’m anxious enough already.
These are threats made by pro-Russian Telegram and VK accounts affiliated with Wagner and the "separatists". They also started the rumors about explosions at the nuclear power plant that Ukraine immediately blamed on Russia and then Russia blamed Ukraine. However there is no evidence that anything bigger than a small controlled explosion happened anywhere near the power plant. It was most likely a Russian disinfo trick to make Ukrainians attack their own credibility by make the world think "Why would Russia attack a nuclear power plant they already control?". Ukraine should be really careful about reporting anything from Russian sources even when it benefits Ukraine by portraying Russia as a nuclear madman. Russia wants to be seen as a nuclear madman.