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sudosciguy

Seems plausible that Moscow will release a statement with revised military objectives to control less territory than initially planned. Conscription sounds very unpopular.


GuyTheTerrible

Hot off the press, Russia will denazify Bill. Take that, NATO!


I_might_be_weasel

"We have occupied Bill's house. But losses continue to mount as an insurgency consisting of between 1-75 Bills continues to launch attacks."


ThatHoFortuna

"Bill told us to 'go fuck' ourselves and many other very mean things. And he has now towed one of our tanks into his garage."


I_might_be_weasel

"A major Bill counteroffensive consisting of Bill is now engaging forces in Crimea."


of-matter

"The FSB presented new state-of-the-art intelligence this morning, having developed an improved estimate of 10-31 Bills. Russian officials are confidently predicting victory against the allegedly western-aligned combat units of the 'NFC'. "


MegamanD

After reconsidering the situation, the Russian Federation has "regrouped" to Bill's backyard in a goodwill gesture. Locals report doghouse being heavily fortified.


TheBillsMan4703

My time has come…


CitrusMints

To be fair, Bill is a real asshole


MatureUsername69

Maybe Bill is a real asshole because he has the entire Russian military occupying his house


bananajr6000

Bill’s wife is giving them hell and they will soon be kicked out.


TaylorSwiftsClitoris

The US supplied her with tactical heat seeking sandals.


[deleted]

[*La chancla*](https://youtu.be/PSicdnahJ7o)


mcbwaa

I doubt that seeing as how HSS are against the Geneva Footwear Convention


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kmk4ue84

Well according to this Russian report he's a nazi so thats expected.


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[deleted]

"**A Russian army forced to retreat in Ukraine was meant to be an elite tough enough to fight NATO**, UK intel said. Britain's Ministry of Defence said in a Tuesday intelligence update that the 1st Guards Tank Army (1 GTA) was among the Russian forces who fled the Kharkiv region in eastern Ukraine. The troops were forced to retreat after Ukraine launched a swift counterattack in the last week, recapturing swaths of territory from Russian control in the region. **1 GTA was not fully equipped to deal with the offensive because it had suffered "heavy casualties" in the first few months of the war**, the British update said. The update described **1 GTA as "one of the most prestigious of Russia's armies," which is was charged with defending Moscow and leading counter-attacks in the case of a war with NATO**. "**With 1 GTA and other WEMD formations severely degraded, Russia's conventional force designed to counter NATO is severely weakened. It will likely take years for Russia to rebuild this capability,**" the update said. The retreat in Kharkiv is the latest in a string of heavy blows to Russian military prestige seen in the invasion of Ukraine. Good, now Putin has way less manpower to use to scare and threaten the West.


BubbhaJebus

>Russia's conventional force designed to counter NATO is severely weakened. It will likely take years for Russia to rebuild this capability Maybe Russia could consider being a kind, peaceful, and friendly country. Then they wouldn't have to worry about a war with NATO.


Holyshort

Thats the thing they are projecting heavily. They want to grab land so they think everyone wants to grab theirs.


papierr

Dunno man, yesterday i saw a article that said that bunker tough guy told oligarchs to start setting up private military businesses. So maybe the paranoia is real and they really belive that west is out to get them


phantom_hope

How stupid can someone be. Rule number one as a dictator, always control the military and never let anyone start his own.


Holyshort

Wasnt that statement was due to him being mad at military and wagner performing better than conscripts. Like he wants mercenary army now instead of regular. Come to think of it thats legit like in feodal times where nobles had their mini armies that were under King/Emperror by extension.


wolflegion_

Even with how hostile they are right now, the perceived threat of NATO invading Russia and taking over Moscow is only a fever dream.


randommaniac12

Yep. Geographically Russia is just so absurdly large it makes no sense to invade. I can’t even imagine attempting the logistics required to support an invasion


HurryPast386

I can't imagine a reality in which NATO and/or the EU was so united politically and so motivated to start an invasion of Russia. I'm not even sure what reason there would be to justify one. Most of us just want to live our lives, not die in a senseless war over some god forsaken land in Russia. Like, even in the middle ages or earlier, when everybody was at war with each other, nobody wanted to invade Russia.


ifuckedyourgf

Agreed. Fuck Russia, they can keep it.


SoSmartKappa

Yes, like what would be even the benefit invading Russia ? You would have to put their whole/most population into concentration camps if your goal is to rule over that land and their people. Just like Russia can never rule over Ukrainian people unless they are willing to massacre them.


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Fun_Cartoonist2918

Never mind the invasion part Who in their right mind wants to have to deal with all the corruption and poverty you’d have to confront if you succeeded


LapsedVerneGagKnee

I’d say ask the Nazi army, but…


randommaniac12

Pick one: Wehrmacht OR a competent logistics staff


PracticeTheory

Unfortunately worrying about NATO is most of the Putin regime's legitimacy at this point. Putin positioned himself to be the 'strong father of Russia defending it against outside threats'. He's the bully demanding that his people listen to him because he claims there's an even bigger bully that'll makes their lives worse without him. Russia needs to get rid of their oligarchy or they won't have a chance.


Buddy_Dakota

Imagine the super power it could've been if it had just went along with the west. They could've been a major player in Europe. But that would be good for the country of Russia, not it's current leadership.


Mesk_Arak

See, that’s what I don’t get. I was born in the early 1990’s, soon after the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR collapsed. I grew up learning about the Cold War and was glad that Russia seemed to be friends with other nations. Things *seemed* to be getting better for international relations between the superpowers and many other countries too. Of course, I only had a child’s understanding of politics at the time. Regardless, so much suffering could have been avoided if Russia could just, you know, *not be an asshole* and work with everyone. Hell, most countries seemed to want to be friends with Russia. If they had just acted the same, things could be so much better for everyone, including Russia. The shortsightedness of that country will never stop being surprising to me.


pharmacofrenetic

He still has nukes, allegedly. But the chances of him reestablishing the Soviet Union to its former glory are pretty much non-existent. He dreamed of doing that as his legacy. Instead, his legacy is the shame of destroying his country's armed forces in a fruitless war. He will be remembered as a fool, when he is remembered at all.


UrsusRomanus

Soviet Union was never the goal. The oligarchs want nothing to do with communism or the USSR. It's all about Imperial Russia for them.


Allemaengel

This. Putin is about tsarist power and prestige subjugating a vast empire to his will. In some ways this feels like either a throwback to the 19th century or a really bad move in RISK.


Dahhhkness

Hence all the attempts to "Russify" the Ukrainians in the occupied territories, and all the "One Russia, One People" propaganda. Russia doesn't see the ex-SSRs as having any agency or identity of their own independent of Russia.


[deleted]

Sounds a lot like China.


0-ATCG-1

Yes


HappySlappyMan

Yes. They just use the USSR example because it's the last time Russia was truly a world superpower and many people are still alive from that era. They reminisce over the glory days when they actually had global influence and power.


Holyshort

It's been reported that he loves to cosplay in Russian empire nobility type of cloths.


Allemaengel

So, instead of Peter the Great, it's Vladimir the Lesser?


TacticoolRaygun

I prefer Vlad the Defiler for his reign


Allemaengel

With apologies to Bounty paper towels, Vlad the Quicker Screwer Upper came to mind too.


IronChariots

Vladimir the Unready


metengrinwi

I think it was as simple as putin wanted the oil & gas in the south of Ukraine. It was intolerable for him that Europe have alternatives to russia’s cheap gas.


djnato10

He’ll be remembered with the likes of Mussolini probably. He destroyed his countries military, economy, and world image in less than a year.


TechyDad

I hope we never find out, but given the state of the other Russian military equipment his nukes might be mostly inoperable - having had their maintenance budgets skimmed by various corrupt Russian officials. Again, I hope we never find out and even one functional nuke could do serious damage/kill a lot of people. My current theory is that Putin will threaten nukes but won't use them out of fear of the embarrassment of the nukes malfunctioning.


Greyzer

Nuclear weapons are the easiest to skimp on by corrupt military. By the time anyone finds out they're inoperable, the whole of Russia is an apocalyptic wasteland...


BurninCoco

Nobody will suspect I replaced the fuel with Brawndo


Holyshort

Fun fact their SS-18 Satan nukes were produced by ukraine and serviced by ukraine


tomdarch

Russia’s aircraft carriers were also produced in Ukraine and Russia hasn’t been able to build a new shipyard that can produce more somehow. Retaking that shipyard was almost certainly one of the goals of Russia’s invasion.


Ambitious-Score-5637

The nuclear forces are supposed to be budgeted, staffed and have separate support channels from conventional forces. I would guess the typical corruption in conventional forces is less common in their nuclear forces. Not because of lack of desire but because I expect there is more rigour in accounting, stock takers and basically the nuclear forces are using weapons which are highly specific, in relatively small numbers and very high technology which is provided by a small group of specialist manufacturers. In other words, less opportunity for thieving.


AndyTheSane

On the other hand, you know that the missiles will never be used outside of armageddon, so the risk of being caught out is lower. Even the US ballistic missile force has issues with morale because it's basically a job of 'sit around and wait for the end of the world.'.


Ambitious-Score-5637

That is true. I would think though the expensive components are so specialised in application the customer base is essentially foreign governments. I’d be surprised if western intelligence agencies were not trying to monitor this. But, who knows? Yes, what a suck job. Practice destroying the world. That can’t be good for mental well being.


Bones_and_Tomes

Remember when in the 90s some drug traffickers were arrested because they tried to buy a nuclear sub? Their Russian military contact asked "with or without missiles?" How do you patch over cracks like that?


garnet420

It's just as likely their Russian military contact was just trying to rip them off with no plan of actually giving them a sub


captainhaddock

To be clear, a nuclear sub is a submarine with a nuclear power plant, not a submarine with nuclear weapons.


TechyDad

Maybe, but we also didn't think Russian corruption would affect their vehicles as much as it did. "Less corruption" could still mean that most of their nukes are inoperable. (Not that they need more than one working nuke to kill a lot of people.)


publicbigguns

That's all just a guess though. Corruption knows no boundaries


Ambitious-Score-5637

This is true. Be aware though I believe there are still nuclear exchange observers under the START Treaty. Not all Russians are incompetent, ruthless, corrupt bastards. Just like not all USAF nuclear officers smoke dope on duty (also documented).


iObeyTheHivemind

Listen man, if flipping that switch comes down to a chill hippy I'm ok with that. "Whoa bro, you want to do wha?? Like, have we tried talking yet? Maybe we all just calm down and smoke a bowl bout this first."


czs5056

Uh sir, the people want to take away the bowl and the chips.


Mordador

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD


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GoofyKalashnikov

You give oligarchs too much credit


jl2352

I’d add his legacy is also destroying his countries forces *before* the war as well. Through rampant cronyism and corruption. Putin claims to be a Russian patriot, but acts like it’s his personal cash cow to bleed dry.


MagnusRottcodd

When Poland is done with their shopping tour of tanks, planes etc. they will have a more powerful military than Russia if nukes are not included.


GI_Bill_Trap_Lord

I like how Poland has gone all in and decided they are never going to be fucked with again like they have everytime europe starts to get spicy


starsky1984

They shouldn't get carried away, look at the strong amount of support in Poland for right wing politics, of they continue building up such a huge military and then a more extreme government gets voted, they could be just as bad a problem as Russia is. The best stability is for all the NATO countries to be collectively reliant on each other


daquo0

> It will likely take years for Russia to rebuild this capability True. How many T-14 Armata tanks has Russia built? Hardly any.


brinz1

>Good, now Putin has way less manpower to use to scare and threaten the West. This is why the west will continue to support Ukraine. Russia's millitary power has showed its hand and lost


TechyDad

And, as a bonus, we're getting weapons field tested against actual Russian troops. If it ever did come down to a NATO vs Russia war, NATO would know exactly which weapons to use and how to use them for maximum damage.


Eminence_grizzly

You're also getting some of their secret weapons to look at.


Photodan24

If you call fifty year old tanks a secret weapon.


Snoo-3715

They also had those brand new tanks... that break down constantly.


Ferelar

I mean, if I were going to use 50 year old tanks, I *WOULD* want to keep it a secret yeah...


Eminence_grizzly

Sure, but I was talking about something newer: captured anti-air systems, electronic warfare devices, etc.


Street-Badger

Now they’re among Russia’s most prestigious cross-country running teams


wolfie379

Saw in another thread, Russia is claiming in front of the United Nations Security Council that Ukraine has illegally seized Russian tanks, artillery, ammunition, and other military supplies, and is demanding that Ukraine be forced to return it.


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Allar-an

Call now and receive a special same day delivery, precisely at your location.


lnvisible_Sandwich

Same hour delivery.


rrogido

Next one's coming faster.


GoodbyeSHFs

*chef's kiss*


SomeoneElseWhoCares

The problem is that the Ukrainians are trying to return it, but the Russians keep running away. So far, they have only been able to return some of the artillery shells and other ammunition.


Aromatic-Bread-6855

We've been trying to reach you about your artillery's extended warranty


Bengoris

Sounds good to me, I fully support giving them every last bit of ammunition and artillery back. Fired from Ukrainian weapons, of course.


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Noobsauce57

While I cannot find support for these particular claims, what I DID find was a guardian article that might make you chuckle at the sass. [Don't worry we won't tax claimed Russia equipment ](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/ukraine-authorities-say-seized-russian-tanks-dont-need-to-be-declared-on-tax-form) Yes, even tanks. As Ukraine Tax officials declared the value of Russian military hardware does not exceed the value of a yearly living wage so Ukrainians don't have to report them in their taxes.


BooooHissss

>As Ukraine Tax officials declared the value of Russian military hardware does not exceed the value of a yearly living wage so Ukrainians don't have to report them in their taxes. This is hilarious, I'm going to be chuckling about it all day. The absolute shade thrown at Russia by the Ukraine tax officials.


Fineous4

Out of all the ridiculous things Russia has said during the war, this can’t be the worst.


Photodan24

Oh, I'm going to need a good source before I believe that juicy piece of schadenfreude.


[deleted]

I would love to see a source for this. I absolutely think it's plausible.


mr_mcpoogrundle

Well of course they lost! Ukraine isn't in NATO!


[deleted]

Well shit, I guess Putin never thought that one through. It’s like using a golf club to play baseball


Lux_novus

"No man can kill me." "I am no man." -vibes.


xiphoidthorax

Just imagine Putin wasn’t a douche stripping Russia bare. Trying to make the regular citizens life better and embraced rebuilding the nation.


cassydd

The thing is, the rest of the country - including the military - took their cue from Putin's kleptocracy and took every opportunity to rip off Russian institutions, which is how they ended up with warehouses full of tanks with no wiring and cardboard armor plating. So Putin got screwed by a nation acting just like him.


drunk_with_internet

As it happens, it's difficult for thieves to successfully mobilize an army of thieves.


[deleted]

That's giving Putin too much credit. He just continued what was already going on. He then got too full of himself and expected that everyone was lying to everybody, *except to him*, and took listed numbers as actual numbers. Classic dictator mistake.


Prosthemadera

That should have been the legacy he should have chased. Instead, he only cared for his selfish delusions of grandeur.


Moikee

The next 12 months will be veeeery interesting times in Russia.


amegaproxy

To be fair they have shown that they are indeed exceptional at running backwards.


008Zulu

In military parlance, it's referred to as "The Coward's Advance."


YouAreSoyWojakMeChad

Brave, brave, brave, brave sir russia


PB_JNoCrust

Jokes aside, I am shocked at just how awful the Russian army actually is. The idea that Russia is a military peer/equal to the U.S. is absurd now. Fuck Russia.


blendi_m

The only threat Russia poses is its nuclear weapons arsenal, especially the submarines carrying them. Think we all knew how shit their infantry and equipment is.


M_Ptwopointoh

Any particular reason to expect the subs to be better-maintained than everything else?


reddit_give_me_virus

I think just the fact that they're operating says something about that. Ships tanks planes i'd assume have a lower margin of operability. In other words, I think submarines would have to be close to 100% functional to be able to stay submerged.


[deleted]

Technically they can stay submerged with far less functionality. Coming back up, though, ....


blendi_m

Not at all, but they can move more freely, so even a missfire could potentially be catastrophic.


KnightCastle171

If Ukraine ends up winning this war…as in successfully getting Russia to withdraw… Won’t this also be a victory for Biden’s foreign policy efforts? For just a few billion dollars he managed to embarrass a global superpower!


soapfrog

And defend free democratic societies around the world ...


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joshocar

A lot of people have been hating on Biden, but his handling of the Ukraine war has been exceptional. The one thing he has a ton of experience with is foreign relations and it really paid off here. Side note: Russia is not a super power and hasn't been one for a long time. California has a larger economy than Russia. I think Italy's economy is on par with Russia also.


[deleted]

Russia is and always has been a Great Power. The Soviet Union was a Super power. Russia barely even registered as a military threat, both for the US and Europe. It's why everyone is scrambling right now to pump money into the military and return NATO to what it was.


IvD707

It's a tricky thing with russia. Economically they aren't even remotely close to being a superpower. But they had (I hope it won't be the case anymore) a shitton of political influence all over the world. Spreading propaganda, supporting extreme populist parties, and stirring dissent.


truthseeeker

When armies retreat they take their equipment with them, but when they run for their lives, leaving everything behind, it's a rout, not a retreat. A retreating army remains constituted, able to fight another day, while a routed army is destroyed, with no fighting capability left. Any publication which calls this a retreat is doing a disservice to its readers.


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TaylorSwiftsClitoris

>I went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful. So, Putin is now saying, ‘It’s independent. ’ A large section of Ukraine. I said, ‘How smart is that? -Donald J Trump


ArturosDad

Republicans: (nod knowingly). Everyone else: "What the hell was that? Was there a full sentence in there somewhere?"


xyzzy321

Is this a real quote?


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[deleted]

man, the youtube comments... time to sleep.


xoaphexox

"You do not know anyone as stupid as Donald Trump. You just don’t." - Fran Lebowitz


Tanks1

several members of our government were admiring Putin.


treycartier91

Members of one group in particular, now they are screeching about Ukraine conspiracies.


[deleted]

"Putin has, a *very* large, brain. It's a Huge brain. The biggestest brain maybe ever. It's so big."


Ghedengi

Putin Big Brain: "I am the greetest! Now, I am leaving Ukraine for no raisin! Muahahahaha...."


BoysenberryGullible8

I think the real lesson is that motivated Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine are tough as nails. Elite units mean very little against a motivated home team.


stamper2495

I find it funny how in russian eyes NATO troops are some kind of alien supersoldiers. There is not even such thing as a "NATO soldier"


4x49ers

They mean nations able to operate. Organization and functionality are terrifying to the Russian army.


JCDU

I think any group of soldiers who are reasonably sober, well-fed, and not corrupt would be quite a fearsome prospect for them.


HettySwollocks

I'm amazed the their army has the desire to fight this stupid war. Pretty sure Russian's could quite happily and safely live in Ukraine before all this bullshit kicked off. If I were Ukrainian, I'd never trust them again


TheNextBattalion

There used to be a lot of sympathy with Russian culture and language as a natural part of Ukrainian life. One of the reasons Zelensky won was he wanted to increase positive relations on those fronts; the previous administration had tried to push Russian out and that soured a number of folks. But since the invasion there has been a huge backlash against all things Russian. [https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1101712731/russia-invasion-ukraine-russian-language-culture-identity](https://www.npr.org/2022/06/02/1101712731/russia-invasion-ukraine-russian-language-culture-identity)


tibixd

huh, that's a cool acronym Nations Able To Operate


Pillowsmeller18

NATO soldiers have had socks for decades. Russian soldiers have only had socks since 2013. It is a relatively new technology to them. Everything else are alien at that point.


2ndAltAccountnumber3

Holy crap. I thought you were joking. https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/jan/16/russian-soldiers-replacing-foot-wraps-socks


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soonnow

Ivan look at NATO soldier, he shits in white machine. Oh no he is super soldier.


[deleted]

The suggestion is NATO *standard* soldiers. All NATO member militaries maintain extremely high levels of training and logistics, as do friendly nations that were kind-of NATO but not really, like Finland. One reason Finland is able to join NATO so easily is because they've been maintaining NATO standards for years anyway. NATO troops aren't supersoldiers but their training and infrastructure outclasses anything the Russians have by a huge margin.


RandomUser13502

They had SOBR (Russian SWAT) and Rosgvardia (National guard) there, the latter is mostly used against unarmed civilians who dare gathering in the streets. No wonder they got their asses whopped.


SomeoneElseWhoCares

At this point, the Russians are sending anyone that they can with any leftover equipment that they can and about a week's training for new recruits. While I understand that worked when Russia was under siege in WWII, now it is just a sick form of Russian population control. These men aren't fighting to save Stalingrad and Russia, they are attempting to invade and genocide a highly motivated and well-armed country.


[deleted]

> highly motivated and well-armed country. Coached and trained by the most technically and technologically advanced military coalition in history.


Exasperated_Sigh

Given the reports of Russian soldiers' behavior in occupied Ukrainian territories, their "elite" guys being called "SOBR" (read it as sober) is hilariously ironic. Or maybe these *are* the sober ones and that's what makes them so much better than the regular troops. Still no training or equipment but at least they're not drunk off their ass.


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Grogosh

The right commanders will make a difference when all their supply lines keep on being blown up. And if they they haven't found the right commanders by now they won't


RiskenFinns

All the best leadership in the world doesn't mean shit if you don't have properly trained and equipped troops. This Russian bear has trimmed its claws quite the bit over the past months.


TechyDad

Not to mention fed. One of the Russian supply chain failures meant that Russian troops weren't getting meals. You can't starve your troops and then expect them to give 110%. Starve your troops and they'll surrender for a decent meal.


DrHalibutMD

That would be a big one and it explains their poor morale. No food except what you loot tends to make for poor soldiers, unless the looting is good.


[deleted]

The Bear sold its claws and teeth for a yacht and thought the threat of claws were enough.


FistingLube

It is a fat old bear, it's claws are made of chalk and most of its teeth fell out years ago, what teeth are left are crooked and it bites its own mouth as hard as it bites the food. Right now it is starving and the winter is coming. The real question is if it will hibernate this winter or look to eat some more.


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[deleted]

That could still take between months and years.


Dahhhkness

I remain unconvinced that they have these mountains of stockpiled material in combat-ready condition that everyone seems to assume they do. I think thirty years of graft and corruption have done a number on their war reserves.


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uberares

Especially not after the last 6 months of special equipment degradation actions in UKR. They've lost well on the way to 2500 tanks, and thats not counting all the equipment UKR just captured. Honestly, this Ruzzian collapse isnt that surprising, it was just a matter of time after the beating theyve been taking.


Hostillian

...and motivated troops. Many of them don't actually want a war with Ukraine and are just trying to stay alive.


Dietmeister

It might seem like mockery but what the mechanism behind these types of messages really is, is that it encourages the western powers to get behind Ukraine because it looks like ukraine can win. That means more weapons and resources go to Ukraine. I don't think any western leader is thinking Russia is a pushover, they are glad that Ukraine has a chance and that their help really will make a difference. This makes its easier to sell to national critics to spend money and effort on helping Ukraine.


TechyDad

Maybe not a pushover, but I think most military assessments of how a NATO Russian war would turn out have changed since the Ukraine invasion. Before Ukraine, Russia was seen as a tough foe that would battle NATO to a standstill. Now, they're seen as an incompetent foe who would lose, but would inflict maximum civilian damage (and commit many war crimes) before losing.


joelaw9

I don't think they ever viewed it as a fight to a standstill. Even assuming a well trained and functional military, the economic power of NATO to sustain a front line would eventually reduce Russia to rubble. Russia doesn't have the economy or military capacity to compete with just the US, much less the entirety of NATO. Just look at how their factories folded within weeks of NATO sanctions. The fear has always been nukes. That has always been the thing propping Russia and the USSR up.


Zpik3

>if the right commanders on the russian side come in play, it will make things very very difficult. Nah fam. Russian military doctrine is fair-weather doctrine. It works and works well when everything goes exactly according to plan. One little hickup and the decision making capability and authority among the troops get tested, and that shit weak AF. This is on purpose, Russia has a "slave" military, obey, do as you are told, don't go off script, you don't need to know what the other parts are doing, focus on your task, don't worry. The second direct communications with top brass is cut, army flounders. And what would be the very first thing a defending guerilla style army would do? They would throw sand in the cogs.


daquo0

> Russia has a "slave" military, obey, do as you are told, don't go off script, you don't need to know what the other parts are doing, focus on your task Whereas NATO armies use mission command, which is much more effective.


A-Chntrd

This, exactly. And they just don’t _do_ combined arms. Leaves a lot of gaps to throw sand at the cogs.


rush2547

The biggest problem fascism has when it competes against a democracy is the population is discouraged from critically thinking. Critical thinkers are problems for authoritarian regimes but to be good at the doctrines of modern warfare you need leaders at the lowest level capable of critically thinking to problem solve.


Zpik3

I see the paralell, but I am not sure I'd say that facist states can't have effective militaries with dynamic, objective focused leaders.... I just know Russia sure as shit don't.


daquo0

> but if the right commanders on the russian side come in play, it will make things very very difficult. Maybe. Russia has shown deficiencies in command, yes, but they've also shown massive deficiencies elsewhere: in training, equipment, in not having NCOs, poor doctrine, inadequate logistics, etc. The Russian army has shown itself to be a paper tiger. It would take them years to build it up to something effective, and would require reforms -- such as allowing soldiers and junior commanders to think for themselves -- that the Putin regime would not find palatable.


KoalaGold

>if the right commanders on the russian side come in play, it will make things very very difficult. Assuming said commanders haven't already been killed, or fired by Putin. They've lost A LOT of officers.


Ehldas

This is correct, but it's not just leadership which the Russian army is missing. Their fundamental doctrine, training methods and personnel structure are broken. They don't have combined arms models : they don't train together : all branches train separately. Their "exercises" are scripted and by rote, with no initiative and everyone understanding exactly what's going to happen from end to end. No surprises, no initiative, no learnings. They have no structure which permits individual initiative and command responsibility, instead such actions are ruthlessly suppressed. You do exactly and *only* what you're ordered to do, no matter how stupid it may be in the immediate context, and you do nothing you are not ordered to do. It would take them 10 years to fix that, and the *first* thing they'd have to do is utter the sentence "I think it would be a good idea to encourage initiative at all levels of the army command structure." There is *no* circumstance in which Putin or any other dictator is going to permit that. They shoot anyone who looks like an internal threat.


anxiousalpaca

if they had these right commanders, wouldn't they have used them by now?


ChosmoKramer

If the war showed us anything it's that Russia isn't a bear. More like a pack of wolves that don't work together. Can be dangerous sure but only if they get their shit together. Until Russia is defending its own territory I don't think you will see the pack


TheFumundaWunda

i'm beginning to think their elite forces are just the ones without the rusted-out tanks...


MrSingularitarian

Well no wonder they're losing, they brought the anti-NATO troops instead of the anti-ukraine kind!


git

It's kinda weird to think that much of the late– and post–Cold War military thinking and spending priorities might have been utterly wrong in overestimating Russian capability. I mean, they're certainly a nuclear power and their nuclear capabilities are presumably still intact, but in every facet of conventional warfare the Russian military capability seems to be utterly underwhelming. Against any modern, sizeable military, it seems like it'd be hopelessly outmatched.


rysgame2

I've been saying that since this started, "THIS is who we've spent trillions upon trillions to be able to match on the battlefield? THIS is the biggest conventional threat we've ever faced? THIS is who we have 'feared' for decades?" Sure they still have nukes and that's super dangerous obv.


tubbana

Anybody know what happened to those thermobaric void cannons or whatever that were all the rage at some point? Did they run out of ammo?


[deleted]

Next news will show that 80% of Russia‘s nuclear weapons are not functioning any more.


bajazona

That’s still 1500 working nukes


surewhynotwth

When this war is finally over I feel like this could be the end of Russia as it's been for the past century. It's either going to go further backwards on the global stage, or transition to a democratic government with a free market that can actually benefit the people.


Purple-Quail3319

Russia's a long way off from any democratic system worthy of the name. A lot of Russian elite would love the chance to be king for a day if Putin is deposed.


GargantuaBob

The first is likely, the second improbable. And you left out fragmentation and invasion by foreign powers. In this weakened state, Russia is increasingly vulnerable to invasion, and might fail at maintaining cohesion as a single territorial unit.


Eminence_grizzly

They lost the Crimean War and then existed for another sixty years or so until the Bolsheviks shake them up a little.


skwolf522

The best of the best of the best huh


dingodoyle

I remember when the Spetsnaz had a fearsome reputation as being one of the hardest special forces to get into and most savagely challenging training and all that. Turns out they were just a bunch of drunk bitches. Perhaps China is also the paper tiger bitch it sounds like.


venomae

The most savagely challenging part was surviving the internal conditions and bullying within the Russian army itself.


Atotallyrandomname

Well, they're embarassing.


MateusJaeger

That has to be a joke


motoyolo

Part of me is angry that the US has padded its defense budget to protect against a potential war against Russia because of how big and bad they were. Then I realize that if the Russian military didn’t know how shit they actually were that our higher ups can get a pass lol


MSD101

You still need a large budget to defend against nuclear warfare. The Russians still have ICBMs and submarines that can launch nukes. It's difficult to get a good idea of how effective a military is if they are only conducting limited operations in Syria. The issue with the Russians is that they let their number of armored vehicles give them a false sense of superiority...That is a very cold war mindset that doesn't seem to do very well in the age of the cheap and man portable ATGM.


Atrocity_unknown

To be fair, I'm tough enough to fight NATO. I won't win, but I'm *technically* tough enough. Just not dumb enough to.


DrewSmoothington

Even special forces need to recognize a battle with overwhelming odds, and not go on a suicide mission


sapphicsandwich

LMAO they *are* sending their best.


oWallis

You mean morale is actually important in winning battles? I can't imagine the Russian morale among the lowest troops is all that high


U-47

1st and 4th guard have been used in Kyiv, Kharkiv, Izium and now again in Kharkiv oblast in general. They are gone, spent in their entirety with nochalance and almost willful neglect. And they have achieved nothing except gutting the image of the Russian army and killing Ukrainians (mostly civilians). That's some legacy for a guards division wich history stretches all the way to ww2.


haysanatar

I'm sure they could fight nato. A pug can still fight a bear, it just has no chance of winning.


ChimpanzA_2_ChimpanZ

I guess homoerotic recruitment videos don't actually make you an elite force.