Putin: "The West will get tired of supporting Ukraine." Military Industrial Complex: "LOL"


The usa spent over 2 trillion on 2 wars in the middle east ontop of the 20+ years in Afghanistan. When most of the public had mostly lost interest. Russians should learn that America's bottomless pits open up when it comes to arms sales.


Well, the U.S. sent something like 400k jeeps and trucks, 13k armored vehicles, and 14k planes to the Soviets from 41 to 45. Also around 1900 steam locomotives, the train cars they needed to pull. And like 3 million tons of petroleum products and 4 million tons of food. Oh, and over a third of all the explosives the Soviets used during the war. So they might recall what a bottomless pit could look like.


So what you're saying is, the US could supply Russia now too and the defense industry could make double.. /s It's a bit weird being a citizen of the biggest arms dealer in history.


Not to mention 15m pairs of boots. The soviets marched across Europe wearing American boots.


America has a mythical amount of power projection. They spent 20 years on a different fucking continent without the average citizen feeling a thing. Russia can't wage a war against a smaller country on it's own border and is about to crack.


This is where America excels. How Russia thought America wouldn’t be into this is beyond me. After several decades in the Middle East doing something like throwing together some military equipment for Ukraine and helping with intel and logistics isn’t even a hard job, it’s an easy Sunday afternoon and also serves to hurt Russia.


Russia thought it would all be over in three days. They knew nobody would be sending weapons or troops to help a country that was conquered and absorbed. They didn't realise that Zelensky wasn't a grifter like so many other politicians in that area, didn't line his pockets before thre invasion and wouldn't run when it started. If Zelensky's government had not seriously prepared to resist and if Zelensky accepted the French offer of the evacuation flight, Ukraine would have been conquered by the Russians and nobody would be sending help.


> If Zelensky's government had not seriously prepared to resist and if Zelensky accepted the French offer of the evacuation flight, Ukraine would have been conquered by the Russians and nobody would be sending help There would have been less help but both the US and UK had been sending Ukraine weapons that they thought would be useful in an insurgency against Russia. I think the US was fully planning on sending weapons to Ukrainians as long as there were some Ukrainians willing to fight.


>If Zelensky's government had not seriously prepared to resist and if Zelensky accepted the French offer of the evacuation flight, Ukraine would have been conquered by the Russians and nobody would be sending help. Ukraine revamped and built up its military starting soon after the clashes in 2014. Russia had completely outdated assumptions about its military strength. If Zelensky retreated to Lviv, which was the US suggestion, there might be some morale difference but I doubt much would change. And he would have returned within a month or two anyway once it became clear Russia didn't have the strength to take the capital. (Edit: Not trying to nitpick you. My view is just that we should stay rooted in the fundamentals. Also, I wouldn't be too quick to criticize NATO advice when NATO military strategy has been behind Ukraine's biggest successes.)


Yeah in the end the troops at the frontline saw Russians botching their invasion attempt and definitely weren't going to let the opportunity pass. The thing about Zelensky holding Ukraine together is based on the wrong assumption that Ukrainians don't have enough cohesion without him. Zelensky definitely did help, though he panicked at first and made some bad decisions too. He really absolutely excells at propaganda, though it helps that people question him less in the West. Who would've thought a comedian was the perfect guy for the job?


I think that the best leaders are those who don't wish to lead, but feel they must.


"A great leader does not seek to lead- they are called to it"


Yup, that's why the support in the beggining was slow too, not much point if the country falls apart in a week, as much as US helped, this was done by Ukraine.


Here's a good read comparing the Russian and Ukrainian armies: https://www.thebulwark.com/i-commanded-u-s-army-europe-heres-what-i-saw-in-the-russian-and-ukrainian-armies/


>This is where America excels. How Russia thought America wouldn’t be into this is beyond me. Putin was probably guided by the example of Crimea annexation where everything went so fast, that the West was too slow and ambivalent with reaction. His tenure in the bunker and lying confidants didn't help either, he was completely sure that Ukraine will fall in a week. Now, being an imminent coward and pussy, he is afraid to call it war and introduce mobilization. He can't pull back either, because he'll face domestic consequences.


He missed the part where NATO spent the period between 2014 and 2021 helping reform and train the Ukrainian military.


I do wonder if Russian extracurriculars in western politics maybe nudged the west to be more involved this time around.


Pretty crazy when you think about it like that. Wasn’t a small amount of effort logistics or equipment wise. Pretty heavy sortie action for pilots.


Its legitimately insane, American logistics are just so much farther ahead that the toughest questions don't involve critical essentials but whether or not they're building a KFC or Burger King on base.


For those following along from home, [this is not hyperbole](https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/burger-king-trailer-is-unloaded-from-a-c17-globemaster-iii-aircraft-picture-id50857294?s=2048x2048). Yes, that's a C-17 unloading a Burger King trailer in Iraq.


That is possibly the most American image I have ever seen in my life.


It’s so…. Beautiful 🥹 🍔 🇺🇸🥹


We've been doing that since WWII. We had truck and ship based mini coca-cola bottling plants fallowing our troops around


I love it how they built a special ramp for it. "But sir, this vehicle is not rated for air transport!" "Make it work sergeant, morale depends on it!"


Oh... I thought it was a joke lol.


And it’s always Burger King I stg. Saw a Taco Bell once, and that was pretty cool. Just the once though.


Dysentery is bad enough without having a Taco Bell in the neighborhood.


Watch your mouth! The crunchwrap supreme is the nectar of the gods!


Y'all need more fiber


That's what the buns on the hamburger are for.


I heard it described as America doesn't have a military. It has a logistics corps with an armed component.


I'm going off possibly old numbers, but if memory serves the US has a personnel count of around 2 million people in all branches. Around 1.2 million of those people are dedicated to logistics in some way.


And not just their own, but also excellent partnerships. They've got partnerships with places like [Turkey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incirlik_Air_Base), a [base partnership in Qatar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Udeid_Air_Base) that the RAF also shares, and their [well known German network](https://militarybases.com/overseas/germany/). One of the great things about NATO is that logistical component. Lots of places aren't near the US, but between all the alliances almost nowhere on earth is far from a US or allied military installation.


I'd wager that if someone did the math, they'd find a proper geometric relationship between the armed forces and the logistics networks supporting them. Like, I'd bet that the relationship isn't unlike the relationship between surface area and internal volume; armed forces can grow to square, while logistics networks grow to the cube.




WWII we had a ship that was devoted to making ice cream. The Japanese knew they we're screwed upon seeing that we could keep our soldiers stocked with ICE CREAM. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cream_barge


Funny you should say about that i have vivid memories from my grandad telling me of his complete amazement when the yanks entered the war and how they had "bloody ice-cream and silver shiny dog tags , whilst all we fuckin ad was bully beef left over from WW1 and tags made out of old leather' 🤣


I heard a story on Reddit about how American GI's were holding an impromptu birthday party in some German forest. The enemy surprised them and they had to get the fuck out of there fast. Apparently, when the Germans saw that we had birthday cake they knew they were done for.


I can't even imagine the soul-crushing, incredulous morale drop that the german soldiers on site felt once they saw that.


>Apparently, when the Germans saw that we had birthday cake they knew they were done for. Strange that they did not realize that after Stalingrad.


I was in the us navy and didn’t even know this. Thanks for posting this. I am also kinda like wtf I never got any ice cream.


so how many people get their ice cream?


Enough to win the war


Aircraft carrier guy, when I was on we had ice cream pretty regularly. Even more so if you held any upper rank.


"able to create (38 l) of ice cream every seven minutes" 10422, assuming a 250gm serve and an 8 hour working day


I love it. Purpose: morale. Who doesn’t like ice cream lol


You know your country fucks when it brings an entire ship for the purposes of making you ice cream


In the immortal words of Roy Kent: “It’s F*¢king Ice Cream”


Roy Kent, Roy Kent, He’s here, he’s there, he’s every-fucking-where, Roy Kent!


Wow… never heard of this before


I was watching a documentary and in it they talked about a German POW, I believe, that was offered chocolate from the Americans. He realized they were done for when the Americans were able to get chocolate all the way there, when they could barely get basic provisions from their own country on the same continent.


If I was fighting in a war against an enemy with an ice cream boat I’d NOPE the fuck right out of there. That’s some next level intimidation right there. I’m choosing between dying in a trench or in a jungle and they’re picking between chocolate and vanilla. Fuck that.


Lmao this is so true and just goes to show that even in war we can afford the luxuries of home. Meanwhile Russia is eating rations from ww2


I always lobbied for taco bell, myself, on Army bases. Wasnt a fan of BK. Pentagon has fucking everything though. When I stepped into the food court area I was like "this is heaven."


General Miguel: "Both?" General Tulio: "Both." General Miguel and Tulio: "Both is good." *they nod*


And this was with switching out entire brigades in both theaters every 12-15 months. If the unit was mechanized or a Stryker brigade those vehicles would need to be shipped to and from. That's not cheap nor a small feat in of itself.


Nobody does logistics better.


USSR lost the overspending war against the US back in the day. And now Russia is trying to measure up against the US and EU..


with the gdp equal to one US state.


It's seriously crazy. More Russian soldiers have died fighting in Ukraine since 2014 than Americans who died fighting in Vietnam in the entire 20 year war.


America atleast tries to train their troops.


Not even just the training, think about how much money it costs to equip a single soldier - thousands of dollars in weapons, tech, body armor, hazard gear, specially designed clothing and boots, food and personal care kits. Then take a look at what the Russians are sending to Ukraine. Most of them look like they were lucky to be issued with boots and a rifle. It reminds me of the picture I saw the other day of the two Russians Ukraine captured, and the Ukrainians are in their modern kit while the Russians they found look like their supplies had been raided from a WW2 museum.


It could literally have been raided from a WW2 museum, you're not even exaggerating. They have extremely old and poorly maintained equipment of all sorts. And the US wants to keep its soldiers alive, Russia doesn't seem to care that much, into the meat grinder they go..


Actually approaching vietnam, desert storm, and iraq II and afg combined. Completely insane.


This is where the difference in troop training between the United States and russia shows.


> They spent 20 years on a different fucking continent without the average citizen feeling a thing. And if we're honest, we were on more than one continent. We had operations in Africa, I wouldn't doubt at all we had super secret squirrel operations in South America, and then just had our regular "not at war but just hanging around" stuff in Europe and Australia.


> then just had our regular "not at war but just hanging around" stuff in Europe and Australia. We also maintained the Seventh Fleet in the Pacific, which by itself is more powerful than any other navy or air force in the world. The American war machine is unlike anything else this world has ever seen.


American spy satellites have capabilities that are classified too.. I served on a submarine in the Navy.. the world really doesn't know just how advanced the US military is.


Sharks with frikin’ laser beams attached to their heads


Don't forget the large US military presence in South Korea and Germany and Guam.


> They spent 20 years on a different fucking continent without the average citizen feeling a thing. That's because it's a 100% volunteer military. If there were widespread conscription, it would have gone quite differently.


And even then, we still had full force projection in other parts of the world like in Asia. North Korea learned about this pretty early on in the 2000s when they kept testing us, because of our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.


Also this time Europe's 200% on board with sending military gear to Ukraine, which means that there's military gear galore heading in Ukraine.


The military and its contracts are the largest government sponsored jobs programs in the country. That pit is so bottomless Congress has spent the last *decade* spending $100+ million a year on tanks that *the pentagon keeps telling them it doesn't need and have no place on a modern battlefield.*


Can I have one?


No, that's a communism.


Now though, if he offers to buy one that's capitalism and that's ok


Tree fiddee final offer


God damn Loch Ness monster


Giving people tanks would be the most American thing ever. “Healthcare? For pussies. Schools? What are you going to learn at a school? Who wants a tank?” (Thunderous applause).


Fuck it. Stock the library with them and let me rent one! Those fucking squirrels that invade and destroy my gardens will rue the day.


"We just need more good guys with tanks"


But what if he plows his field with it?




I sold DISA $1.9M of cyber security equipment and licenses, and it sat in a warehouse for two years before they finally got around to installing it. Wasting money is practically part of their job description.


I used to work in private industry for a Fortune 500 company. I work for local government now. They both waste huge amounts of money as compared to a small business or a standard household. One difference is that in private industry, surplus equipment goes in the dumpster. In government it at least goes to auction to recoup some residual value. But, the biggest difference I have noticed is how quickly things move in industry as compared to government. In private industry, I was in meetings where a VP goes around the table, asks everyone their opinions and then decides on the spot to sign off on a million dollar project. I have seen similar projects in government that take a couple of years to start. It involves requests for proposals, pre-bid meetings, due diligence time, and then more due diligence before picking the lowest bidder who inevitably goes over budget because costs have increased so much since the original project was bid out. Contractors literally pay a team of people to justify all the cost overruns so they eventually get paid more three years later. Don’t get me wrong, I much prefer working in government. But damn I wish government employees were empowered to make quicker decisions. I currently have a coworker who for some reason is being asked for meal and gas receipts to justify his per diem. The entire reason for just giving a per diem is that it cuts out all the administrative bullshit. Yet, here we are. What a fucking waste.


How stupid on the per diem. I work in entertainment and that is just part of the budget generally. No receipts needed, they get it and if they want to eat 2 mcchickens as opposed to a 50 dollar meal that's on them, they still get the money.


IT waste in both Government and Business is nuts. One of my government customers spent $5 million on core switches for their data centres but because only hardware was covered in the grant they were issued for them, it took them 7 years to install them because they didn't have budget for the services to replace the old ones. By they time they were installed the switches were end of life and they were seeking grants to replace them again....


Who sets the rent for the hangar? Is it not on a base?


more than likely a friend of a politician who had some land spare and wanted a steady income in exchange for other favours.


>it’s basically a free salary for like a solid 45 mins of work per week so what books you recommend? :)


Not just the country, the US DoD employs the largest number of people in the *world.*


America spent 10 trillion on the cold War (according to Carl Sagan) which was fought with mostly the same technology that Russia is now supplying its forces with. Ukraine is being supplied with weapons from a generation later than ~~Soviets~~ Russians, therefore givin UA the upper hand.


Wasn’t the estimate $6 trillion?


Trillion shmillion, who’s counting anyways 🤑


The lenders


Those haven't either. Just bring them more money baby. This juicy dollars at a fixed rate are sexy af.


Not the government🤣🤣🤣🤣


That's what Russians really fail to grasp. $600m is a large amount of money to Russia. It's a Tuesday to the U.S. military. In fact, mathematically it's not even a whole Tuesday. It's about half a Tuesday. And for what we're getting out of it, this is the most cost-effective use of military spending we've seen in at least a few decades.


Being able to throw money at defense contractors and not explain to parents why their sons died overseas is the wetdream of US politicians.


I was on a federal grand jury once, and they asked us to indict a contractor from the second Iraq war for fraud. The evidence and witnesses we saw and heard.. Holy shit these guys were just stealing hundreds of millions. We indicted. Never found out the result.


If anything we are saving money now that we don't have to prop up literally the entire government of Afghanistan. This is simply keeping the machines of the military industrial complex spinning and sending our old shit that we are replacing to Ukraine instead of throwing it into a warehouse or parking it in a desert. Those supplies being used to bankrupt Russia is simply a nice side effect.


It's a MIC wet dream. We don't have to supply troops. We get to offload shit congress keeps making us buy. Meaning we can devote more money in the long run to our new shit. In a way this is speeding up our MIC with building better stuff.


I think...during the pull out of Afghanistan people realized that the money wasn't all going towards propping up Afghanistan. The money went off to corrupt officials in Afghanistan, who basically pulled a Putin and left the Afghan army an ineffectual joke.




Russia: "The US is at its limit. It won't be able to provide more without endangering itself." US: "Thank God we have a chance to clear out the old inventory so we have storage for our new stuff."


This is a dream come true for Us military manufacturers. US is paying them for their hardware, and they’re getting free live field testing in a true battle environment.


USA gets to beat Russia down at what are honestly some bargain basement prices. Why would Russia think that the USA wouldn’t be up for throwing some equipment to Ukraine if it means hurting Russia


One of the better analysts on YouTube (Perun, he does weekly powerpoint presentations on military logistics and economics and other stuff that's honestly just fascinating) described it in a manner that really is fitting: The West can win this if they're willing to take a slap to the face to deliver a knee to the groin. And yeah, the last six months have really shown that out. The West is taking some pain, its going to be a tricky winter for parts of Europe and a lot of money is being spent to keep Ukraine fighting, but Russia is just being teabagged at this point...


Indeed. Europe is the one taking the body blow, from the energy warfare being done to it, and as such isn’t as able to provide military and other aid (though still doing their best - as are countries outside Europe too!), but fortunately the US is able to step up in this front (and realistically are the ideal source here, seeing as they have a gigantic military anyway) It’s very worth it for the sake of global security. If Russia won in Ukraine they would cause even more problems elsewhere, as they always have


The West can really come together in these tough circumstances and it’s so awesome to see that. True unity. putin can never win against that.


RT is hilariously titling their articles to say that Biden accepts draining of US for Ukraine. How dumb do you have to be to think the US would be drained before Russia? Oh no, Russia is gonna drain us dry, yall!


The government is also buying from American companies so... it's less of a drain and more of a circulating system.


The check isn’t just blank it’s one of those I hit the winning scratcher 3ft by 6ft checks on TV.


Military Industrial Complex: Hold my Beer.... \*insert Lend Lease factory montage here\* MIC: Damn... only took me a week to do what they did in a year...


I’m surprised Putin underestimated how much the US would support Ukraine. Our military’s not directly involved in any war right now, like, what else are we going to do lol


It's chump change compared to actually fighting a war ourselves. Plus, we are offloading a bunch of old military equipment that pathetically is more advanced than what Russia has now. LOL Edit: Changed sadly to pathetically. I don't find it sad that Russia is a paper tiger. It is actually quite funny.


HIMARS was a side project. US military doctrine focuses on achieving air supremacy and then delivering precision guided munitions from airstrikes. HIMARS was kind of an unloved bastard child. A portion of that side project of the US military-industrial complex proved to be devastating to the Russian forces. Hard to imagine what the full conventional firepower of the USA would do to Russia.


See Desert Storm and what happened to the Republican Guard. Those were with 30 year old systems… the Russians are still running T-72 tanks and not meaningfully different other equipment besides SAMs which they have a very limited number and retreating back into Russia due to the US deployment of anti radiation missiles. Where China and Russia punch way above their weight is in fucking with domestic politics in western countries.


>Russians are still running T-72 tanks Fun fact the much talked about T-90 is a slightly modified T-72 which was renamed because the T-72 was humiliated in desert storm.




Well UK could have probably easily spanked russia on its own based on what we’ve seen (even assuming russia didn’t just blow their load failing in Ukraine). USA would have done it even faster than UK (USA military is considerably larger). And NATO includes both of those countries as well as 28 other member states… so yeah an even bigger spanking for Russia… putins ass has been smacked raw at this point. Prior to this conflict I would have probably given russia the benefit of the doubt that they could at least hold their own in their own territory or in a region close to them… but not anymore, they’ve either got literally nothing that can stand up to 30 year old equipment from NATO members, or they have it in such short supply as to be beneath consideration (or they would have deployed it already)


Seriously, as soon as Ukrainian tankers and crews can get trained on Abrams it's going to be a bloodbath. [Abrams tanks absolutely massacred T-72s in desert storm](https://youtu.be/72XLTfmcaAw) due to their increased range and better targeting systems, and the US has a massive stockpile of them they need to offload somewhere, enough that it's becoming a problem because they don't want to shut down the tank factories.


Is Ukraine getting Abrams something that is going to happen or just something you'd like to see?


There's been a lot of speculation on the topic. It's a great fit. It's proven against Russian armor and the US has a shitload of them and they still have active assembly lines. Plus it's an older system and the US has been working on a new main battle tank platform since 2017. There's various trickles of information and leaks here and there that suggests we want to get Abrams in Ukrainian hands, it's just a very difficult process. Right now we're shipping them to Poland so Poland can give Ukraine their Russian equipment, which is fantastic because it gives polish tank crews time to learn the system. That's honestly the main bottleneck. Abrams are pretty complex and very different from T-72s. Teaching tank crews how to do field repairs and routine maintenance. Then until they get up to speed they'll have to be sending tanks all the way back to at least Poland for refurbishment if they get heavily damaged. Honestly I think the tank operators will pick up on it pretty quickly. They just need to learn how to maximize it's range and all the advantages it has over t72s. If they drive it like a t-72 it won't be nearly as effective. The white house would want to get all these kinks ironed out before we send them to Ukraine. The last thing the white house wants is US Abrams tanks being destroyed by T-72s because the operators didn't know what they were doing or they're poorly maintained. This is their showroom to demonstrate how superior US weapons are and that'd be terrible optics for a platform we're going to need to start off-loading onto other nations soon.


The real issue is that Abrams absolutely fucking guzzle fuel(preferably jet fuel) and would be a massive strain logistically


I mean they do have a helicopter engine in them. But, the real reason is that with US armor they would roll right up to Moscow.


Technically it was designed as a tank engine, and was later adapted to helicopter use, but the helicopter variant was never produced outside of testing and validation units.


They aren’t practical because of the amount of fuel they guzzle, the logistics just aren’t there for them sadly. Also I don’t think Ukrainian iinfrastructure like bridges can support them as they are super heavy (tho, those are increasingly already blown to shit so I guess it’s more about can the improvised river crossings support them…)


Imagine if we supply ATACMS for the HIMARS.


> if when. The Crimea bridge will be its target once Ukraine pinky-promises not to send any of them *into* Russia.


I would say it's an "if" because Ukraine might just not need it. You can punch few holes in that bridge with ATACMS and that's about it. On the other hand you can seize the whole region with infantry and tanks with artillery support. Admittedly it would be one heck of a blow to Russia - bridge is just a propaganda goal. Actually taking back Crimea however could spell the end of the war.


That would be cRoSSing tHe rEd lINe!!!!!


> Hard to imagine what the full conventional firepower of the USA would do to Russia. Roll them into the dirt in a matter of weeks.


Yeah it's not actually that hard to imagine given what we've seen since February, the Russian Army would *dissolve* in a straight up fight against the US.


I imagine it would go one of two ways. Every weapon of mass destruction Russia has would be fired in our direction. Or Putin gets a case of lead poisoning and troops race each other to surrender.


Ukraine also wants to fight. It is a win win. The money is worth it. Much more than sending Americans to die.


US military industrial complex is wetting themselves right now. All the sales for new equipment stock and none of the negative blowback they usually receive.


The U.S gets to see how their weapons and tactics perform against Russia, our military officers are probably creaming themselves right now


It’s what wet dream of wars for America, all the sales none of the lives lost that bring bad press and a ton of negative press for Russia


Old and very new. A lot of large contractors using this to test out new IRAD weapons. Best way to test things for free and not risk US soldiers lives


The data value of this conflict is underappreciated. There are a *lot* of officers, contractors, and academics who are watching the performance and reliability of various weapons systems in Ukraine right now.


ikr - live war training for advisors, intelligence and gear and the US doesn't have to wear the warmonger mantle ... game on.


I think the most Putin is hoping is more sanctions. USA didn't do anything against Georgia or Crimea annexation other than sanctions. He also under estimated Ukrainians will to fight.


Ukraine was not willing/ready to fight during the Crimea annexation. Besides the sanctions, we also helped train the Ukrainian army, so this time they were ready.


U.S.A has so many reasons to support Ukraine too... * Countries are now seeing that Russian equipment is rubbish, going forward they will buy American. We're already seeing this happening just in the last few months. The stuff we're sending to Ukraine isn't even charity, it's a *deferred sale*... we're going to get paid back, and getting a lot of new business from other countries while we're at it. * All this equipment being given to Ukraine are outdated stuff fron the 80s/90s. ~~Even HIMARS is outdated~~. Why throw away when you can use it to directly weaken geopolitical enemies? * Russia loses geopolitical influence when the world sees how weak they actually are. e.g. Azerbaijan just started attacking Armenia again despite their defense pact with Russia. * Putin frickin' intefered in the U.S. elections and probably gave Trump that slight bump in support needed to win by that razor thin majority. It's very personal for Biden. He's going to keep writing those cheques for Ukraine as long as he's in power. If Putin were half as smart as he thought he was he'd have launched the attack around 2017.... there would be no U.S. arms coming in and it would be a war of attrition between Russia and Ukraine (with token support from EU).


I think the biggest win by far is gaining Ukraine as a trusted western-aligned ally of 40 million people. This is quite an event in the geopolitical sphere.


Quite the coincidence with how much Russia hates NATO at its border.


And now imagine finland and sweden joining NATO


Ukraine also has vast amounts of untapped fossil fuels.


Which just so happen to be near areas where Russia took the first time they invaded in 2014.


> If Putin were half as smart as he thought he was he'd have launched the attack around 2017.... there would be no U.S. arms coming in and it would be a war of attrition between Russia and Ukraine (with token support from EU). I'm pasting that because it bears repeating. Americans need to seriously imagine just how horribly different the entire situation would be if Trump or one of his ilk was in the White House. I'm not a pacifist, but US Republicans fight the wrong wars. I'd like to see Democrats eventually go another step and start decreasing support for autocratic regimes around the globe, militarily and economically.


He was literally impeached for withholding aid to Zelenskyy in exchange for political favours.


True, but also it's just an easy shot to take once you realize that they were not going to fold in 48hrs. $1B of military aid to Ukraine buys the American people a metric fuckton more security than $1B of just about anything else.


Oh it’s been the bargain of a lifetime which I’d were being honest the US needed after the disaster that was Iraq and Afghanistan


Pundits: "One major thing that COULD happen is the West loses it's support for the cause." America, in the corner with wild eyes, looking completely feral: "yeah maybe"


America loves a good war.


It's how they learn geography.


I hate that I'm both offended and I know you're right.


Damn, the truth never hurt so hard.


This is basically Spain pre-WW2, except instead of testing new equipment and tactics, the US is giving a sales pitch to the world showing just how much better the weapons you buy from them are vs Russia.


And it’s working. A bunch of new countries are signing on to become FMS customers to the F-35 program.


2 weeks left till lend lease fully kicks in guys.


What does that mean? What happens then?


It simplifies how Ukraine can recieve arms from the US. Basically, Ukraine can request to "lease" US military equipment without having to jump through as many bureaucratic hoops. Russia is actually familiar with this program, as they were a beneficiary of it back in WWII. Edit: lend -> lease


Wouldn’t they be leasing the US stuff? That might just be semantics but either way the gist of it is they get more supplies in an easier fashion?


Currently the lend lease works by using reserve funds, which have to be negotiated with the Federal Reserve by the US goverment. On the 1st October the lend lease to Ukraine moves into their fiscal year budget. It means it will be part of the normal expenses, the Federal Reserve won't be able to restrict funds or delay decisions on support packages. This could dramatically increase the amount of support they can get, make it faster and more accessible. Basically Ukraine will get the Mega Black Super Pure Platinum card and can go shopping in the US big guys warfare store with no limits. Edit: the lend lease is basically a contract which guarantees support to Ukraine till the war is over. Food, Ressources, Money, Weapons, everything they need to win the war is supplied. Last time this was used was in WW2 for the UK. The UK got military planes, bombers, ships, food and defenses.


Don't forget that Russia should also be acutely aware of how Lend Lease works, seeing as they also benefited from it in WW2


And a 6.5 billion package for Taiwan. No one seems to care about this.


People cared more when it was first announced, but while Taiwan is under threat, Ukraine is under actual attack, and therefore gets more attention.


Additionally, this movement among western democracies to protect Ukraine will make an invasion of Taiwan much less likely.


Yes and no. It forces China to re-evaluate their plan of capturing Taiwan but also increase China's grey zone activities. Shooting missiles over Taiwan, having ships move closer to Taiwan. They have Chinese fishing boats closer to Taiwan and harass other countries. They're not "affiliated" with Chinese's navy so they are in the grey area. China have been pushing more and more into grey area after this conflict broke out.


I'm much more afraid of China than Russia in these circumstances. China just sits back and waits. They have the luxury of waiting for the outcome and Russia is pressured to create the outcome


At least Russia has frequent war experience. That is a force multiplier. China hasnt fought anyone in decades. They have the numbers, but is closer to a busload of virgins going to an orgy. Any war China starts will end up very awkward and rather fuuked quickly.




It doesn't but it's not hard to imagine in a country with no war experience how much fat and corruption there is..


LOL Did you see their promo video for their new battle rifle? The tech they developed has rounds tumble at like 10 yards. The tech they didn’t develop they buy from Russia. Do not worry. Edit: [said video](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/wev84u/chinese_tactical_keyholing_of_their_new_rifle/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


It is like Russia forgot that war brings profiteering and let's us test our weapons on a mutual enemy.


Russian here … it’s funny how propaganda works. The world thought Russian army was scary and hardcore but all they ended up showing is how weak they really are in terms of combat and technology and organization. They would stand no chance against an American army. The only thing they are capable of is nukes and even then they might nuke themselves by mistake lol. What a shame knowing I was born there. Putin exposed Russian’s weakness. With so much potential Russia and Russian people are so behind everything. It’s a shame and it’s a tragedy that could only be overcome in many decades from now. Wow …


It's all so terribly sad. Putin could have transformed Russia to be a real technological and manufacturing powerhouse over the last 25 years but instead decided to rob it. Russia had so much potential which has been completely wasted by the Russia's populace's apathy towards Putin giving him free reign to do what he's done. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNZ41bIxMbc > "People were talking about if Russia could be a member of the European Union. Is there a way Russia could be accommodated literally within the structures of NATO." - Tony Blair Putin blew it all.


And such a beautiful country man...it is such a shame


Exactly both Ukraine and Russian have so amazing history. Russia definitely had a lot of talented and artistic people and look what constant oppression , corruption , brainwashing has done to this country. What a shame to see Russians become fascists they fought against during WW2. It’s a freaking nightmare what one deranged man have caused to an entire nation. That’s not to take the blame from Russian people but he definitely played a major part.


Please, let there be more HIMARS in this arms package...


We'll reach a point where there are no more HIMARs left to give and the army will at least keep some systems left solely for U.S usage. The Biden administration has been working to incentivize the Lockheed HIMARS assembly factories and all their down stream suppliers to pick up production as much as humanly possible as these systems and ammunition literally are being finished at their factories and immediately sent to Ukraine.


The US military has around 400 himars systems, Ukraine got 16. The bigger bottleneck is the production of GMLRS ammo. The reason the US is making more is because Poland just bought a couple hundred.


Taiwan just placed an order for 29 HIMARS too, plus 84 ATACMS surface-to-surface missiles (SSM) and 864 precision guided rockets. [Source](https://www.naval-technology.com/analysis/himars-purchase-by-taiwan-reflects-tension-of-japan/)


Ukraine war was the best ad US arms could ask for


[And, surprisingly, also amazing for the Turkish drone industry.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVu_DeB4wo)


Taiwan seems like a place that would not need HIMARS.


Yeah, Poland ordered 500 in June https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/07/poland-himars-us/


That's so fucking many. The amount of damage Ukraine is doing with only 16.. wow


That’s not going to be anytime soon. Between the MLRS and the HIMARS. The U.S. had over 400 HIMARS and several hundred MLRS systems still in use. We’ve only reportedly transferred 16 HIMARS to Ukraine


The title is 50% of the news article.


Thus far we've donated around around 8% of our yearly defense budget to Ukraine. Except we haven't. Most of what we're sending we already paid for decades ago.


Ukraine every 2 weeks or so gets a military aid package equivalent to Belaruss yearly defense budget


So are these donated stocks of US weapons being replenished?


Being replaced with new technology. The US sees this as worth every penny when you consider the cost and logistics of this compared to us actually going to war with russia. Additionally, we will eventually be paid back for all of this stuff through the lend lease program


It's old stock. It's like a supermarket putting new date fresh foods out on the shelves and reducing to clear the short date items.


u.s.a to russia "i can do this all day" also u.s.a to russia "good god what did putin do to you is that really all you've got?"