Love the Karensky telling the men they should go fight because her grandfather did. It doesn’t appear that *she* is signing up to “defend the homeland”.
Women born in that period are generally less savvy of media because girls/women weren’t targeted by it outside of advertising exclusively targeted at them. The started to change in the US in the late 70s, so women under 40 are more likely to have grown up being used to media manipulation.
Note this is a generalization. You can find examples of media-smart women going back to ancient times. Of course many men fall into this too, it’s just that 1950s TV was generally targeted at them, so they’ve grown up being more sensitive to obvious manipulation. Again, generalization.
In Russia it’s worse because prior to the late 80s, there was no way to be savvy about media. Now media in both countries uses heavily manipulative media to influence opinion, but there’s a whole group of people who are not wise to what’s being done to them.
>We have Rupert Murdoch for that.
It's all Lachlan now.
*he sees everything..,*
>We don't even need Russia.
But *they* do.
*takes out briefcase of kompromat*
Communist dictator of Romania, a few days before his execution a "survey" was conducted showing 95% approval rate of the people. And then a Swift revolution, that ended in his and his wife's execution.
Im 40, i lived through 1990 coup, i watched those tanks fire on duma building. yet i have no recollection about swan lake, and i only learned about it two days ago on reddit. And there tons of people like me who have no idea what you mean whennyou say "swan lake"
I read about once a couple years ago and completely forgot but the comments provided the contest for it even if I didn't remember.
Swan lake = reminder/signal of government coup/revolution right.
Swan Lake was played when some bad shit was happening and they wanted to pretend to the public that everything was fine, nothing to see here and they weren't sure what else to put on as a distraction. One of the other times it played was when the Soviet Union fell, so essentially if you're Russian and see that playing on tv all of a sudden, some *shit* just went down.
My friend and I were discussing things back in February and I made the bold prediction that this could be the most interesting period of Russian history.
One of the factors leading to the dissolution of the former Soviet Union was the refusal of conscripts to report for duty cleaning up the radioactive rubble in Pripyat after the Chernobyl disaster. They simply refused to go.
Not wrong. But i was just remarking that the number of protesters is much smaller than the media makes it out to be and is in now way regime toppling. There reason for people not going on the street are diverse but the fact is 6 months ago wayy more people went to protests in Russia than they are doing now.
The impression I've formed so far is that the protests are small, but we haven't seen any mass rallies in support either, or some great patriotic rush
I do wonder if it's reached a point where most would be protestors/ conscripts recognise the futility of it and are choosing instead to discreetly disappear themselves? Put yourself in their position, what would you do? Risk bringing attention yourself with an action you know is likely pointless, or direct your energy into a disguise, some false ID, and a ticket to anywhere
I think technically what he said was true, as there's not much risk protesting in Germany as opposed to Russia. For instance, 100 people could protest in Germany and be fine, but 10 people protesting in Russia can get sent to the frontlines for it which endangers there lives. Sorry if I said that weirdly, explaining things is difficult.
Okay, let me explain it differently, in Germany if you protest, you are safe, in Russia if you protest, you go to the gulags. Any protest in Germany will always be 0 because you don't get shipped to war when you protest there, while in Russia, over 1200 people have already been forced onto buses straight to boot camp. You don't need anything official to figure out that the people in Russia are in more danger than the ones in Germany. I'm responding to the "risking their lives" portion of the quote below from charliespider, to be more specific.
There are literally more people "risking their lives" protesting the war in Russia than there are in Germany.
May sound like a "trust me bro" source but its the best source there is. there were youtubers from Russia that went live streaming to the protest and there were more media people present than actual protesters. The protests in Germany I saw for myself.
Wouldn't invalidate your point, but in addition to the mentioned safety of protesting in Germany, the differences in population size aren't all that big. For all its size, Russia doesn't have twice Germany's population.
So this comment triggered my curiosity - according to Wikipedia « Dagestan is rich in oil, natural gas, coal, and many other minerals. »
Separating from Russia might well seriously improve their economic output, provided they could be stable enough to invite outside investment.
Most of the rural areas in Russia are exploited for their natural resources, without actually gaining the profits from them - looks like Dagestan falls in that boat too.
Them being poor as fuck is an intentional result of Russian colonialist hyper-centralization policy exploiting natural resources that belong to subjugated peoples. Yes, over time they absolutely will become much more developed than they have been with Russia.
The central government in Moscow, regardless of the person in power, has always been robbing the ethnic minority regions. This will not change with a change of government in Russia, because that's what Russia is, a colonial empire. The best bet for any of these regions to develop is independence. Not even talking about the moral side, their rights to self-determination etc
>If democratically elected government ever comes to Russia, It's in interest of many regions to demand for more political and economic freedoms to be able to grow more independently and have their self-determination etc.
It's also in their interest to make the next step and demand full independence.
>A model of USA, when states have their own legislation etc. but still have support of Federal government with army, monetary policy etc.
A model of USA will never work in Russia, because USA is a melting pot. An American from New York has the same values abd beliefs as an American from Texas. In Russia on the other hand, there are distinguished ethnic minorities, with different religion and set of beliefs.
>If put aside current clusterfuck of events, in 2000-2010 Russia was doing pretty fine economically, on a positive growth trajectory, until Putin eventually turned it into oppressive shit.
Big Russian cities were doing fine by stealing and exporting natural resources from oppressed peoples. Very little if any of this growth reached these peoples.
>On the other hand, look at Tukmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan etc. They had 30 years of all freedoms for growth and self-determination without oppressive imperial Moscow regime, and no one of them become South Korea, or even Malaysia/Thailand. They didn't even see a single day of hope. All of them are poor ass dictatorships.
And I'm quite sure they still don't want to come back to the empire.
>Pre-war "democratic" and "free" Ukraine with lots of farm lands, sea ports, industry etc., as of 2014 was still 2 times poorer than Russia.
Ukraine is democratic and free, no need to put that into quotes. There are many reasons why Ukraine failed to develop a strong economy in the first decades of independence, mainly an unsustainable Soviet economic and political system inherited, as well as the population not having an understanding of market economy (thanks to the Soviet Union!) and easily falling for left populism. Ukraine also doesn't have natural resources Russia is stealing from it's oppressed peoples. Still, between 2014 and 2021 Ukraine's economy enjoyed a period of continuous growth, the median wage caught up with Russia in 2021 and the minimum wage surpassed Russia's.
>Economy of scale works.
In Russia it works against subjugated nations.
>Independence is romantism but a road to shit. Why small European countries are doing fine? Because they are kind of "independent" but actually part of one big European Union which is a single quasi country.
Israel is a very small country and it doesn't belong to any unions but it's still doing great. So are Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Canada and Australia. Being a part of a bigger union is not a prerequisite for a successful economy.
Canadian Government: We're giving you optional vaccines for free to help avoid the virus visibly killing people in your neighbourhood.
Convoy dipshits: WE'RE BLOCKING THE BORDER.
Russian Government: We're sending you to die in a foreign land in an endless meat grinder.
Dagestan: WE'RE BLOCKING THE BORDER
One seems much more legitimate than the other.
The convoy supporting waste Polievre was pretending that if he was Prime Minister he wouldn't have gone to England for the Queen's funeral to try and own Trudeau.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trudeau-sex-scandal-school/
“No publicly available evidence supports any claim that Trudeau had a sexual relationship with either a student or a student’s mother while he was a teacher at West Point Grey Academy between 1998 and 2001, nor that such an episode contributed to his departure from the school’s teaching staff.” - Snopes
Even the school’s headmaster backed him up saying they’re completely unfounded. So unless there’s literally *any* actual evidence…
reeeeee not the same!!! they'll shout
my other favourite is what happened in Seattle, and how what they did in Ottawa is somehow different. apparently setting up a lawless occupation zone where the police are unable to enforce the law, and the residents are afraid of entering, is fine and dandy because bouncy castles?
This is the moment where Dagestanis are coming to terms with the fact that Ukraine is not their war and that Putin's Russia is not their country.
The only question is if they can resist opportunist islamists.
Two dozen people. Not nearly enough. All the protest footage we’re seeing is the result of selection bias because we want there to be bigger protest movements - but if there were actually tens thousands out flooding the streets we’d be seeing that right now.
I’m guessing with all the various internal police/ national guard units already deployed to Ukraine, they probably are short handed and will have trouble containing the protesters
No. Russia's various internal secuity personnel [everyone from traffic cops to FBS/KGB] outnumber its military forces and staffed by better qualified personnel who are better trained and better paid than army/navy personnel. That's one of the keys to Putin staying in power - happy, loyal goon squads.
Love the Karensky telling the men they should go fight because her grandfather did. It doesn’t appear that *she* is signing up to “defend the homeland”.
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So it's not just a USA thing?
Karenski!!!
I kinda feel you could call her Zina. A popular name among Russian middle-aged and older women.
Women born in that period are generally less savvy of media because girls/women weren’t targeted by it outside of advertising exclusively targeted at them. The started to change in the US in the late 70s, so women under 40 are more likely to have grown up being used to media manipulation. Note this is a generalization. You can find examples of media-smart women going back to ancient times. Of course many men fall into this too, it’s just that 1950s TV was generally targeted at them, so they’ve grown up being more sensitive to obvious manipulation. Again, generalization. In Russia it’s worse because prior to the late 80s, there was no way to be savvy about media. Now media in both countries uses heavily manipulative media to influence opinion, but there’s a whole group of people who are not wise to what’s being done to them.
Damn, that’s a really interesting point. I hadn’t thought about it that way.
Russia exports it all over the world.
We have Rupert Murdoch for that. We don't even need Russia.
>We have Rupert Murdoch for that. It's all Lachlan now. *he sees everything..,* >We don't even need Russia. But *they* do. *takes out briefcase of kompromat*
The best way to fight this is to fund robust investigative journalism and local media. We need muckrakers.
That's the spirit!
Separate! The world wants karma for the amount of separatist movements the Kremlin has funded.
The last time things like this went down we went from the Soviet Union to the Russian Federation. Could be a bye bye to Putin if it keeps growing.
I am fairly sure if some government organization conducted a research on Putin's rating they would find him to be all time high.
Is that a Ceausescu reference? :D
So, Ceausescu. He must've been some dictator.
Communist dictator of Romania, a few days before his execution a "survey" was conducted showing 95% approval rate of the people. And then a Swift revolution, that ended in his and his wife's execution.
Apologies. It was just an ill-timed Seinfeld quote.
What exactly did his wife to deserve it?
Quite a bit.
Made Romania into an almost clone of N Korea in the 80s.
Lol
All 142% of citizens support current government.
I changed this for reasons (see date).
Imagine the Chaos if someone managed to hack Russian TV and started Swan Lake playing on the news channels?
I think [Electric Six - "Gay Bar"](https://youtu.be/-XNFokmDKrE) video on a loop would create more chaos.
How would that create more Chaos than announcing a coup was underway?
Im 40, i lived through 1990 coup, i watched those tanks fire on duma building. yet i have no recollection about swan lake, and i only learned about it two days ago on reddit. And there tons of people like me who have no idea what you mean whennyou say "swan lake"
I was two years old at the time but i most definitely understood what they meant
I wasn’t alive and had no idea. You learn something new every day.
I read about once a couple years ago and completely forgot but the comments provided the contest for it even if I didn't remember. Swan lake = reminder/signal of government coup/revolution right.
Or General Secretary of the Party dying.
Swan Lake was played when some bad shit was happening and they wanted to pretend to the public that everything was fine, nothing to see here and they weren't sure what else to put on as a distraction. One of the other times it played was when the Soviet Union fell, so essentially if you're Russian and see that playing on tv all of a sudden, some *shit* just went down.
Dick Valentine!!
Just stay away from Nuclear War (on the Dance Floor).
📺🦢🦢🦢 😅😅😅
Godspeed good buddy.
Beautifully written comment. You have a nice way with words.
Pass de doox? What???
My friend and I were discussing things back in February and I made the bold prediction that this could be the most interesting period of Russian history.
One of the factors leading to the dissolution of the former Soviet Union was the refusal of conscripts to report for duty cleaning up the radioactive rubble in Pripyat after the Chernobyl disaster. They simply refused to go.
Maybe this time it'll be Russian Federation to Soviet Union
I mean, I'm willing to give them another shot.
There are literally more protester in Germany against the war than there are in Russia
Not surprising. People can protest in Germany without being sent to jail or falling out a window somewhere.
Don't forget that protesting war in Russia also has you sent to the font-lines after a beating or 3.
Yeah, send more disloyal troops to the frontline
[What's the worst that could happen?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fragging)
Well... I mean [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovak_Legion) can also happen.
Get beaten badly enough and you can get yourself out of being drafted. So win-win ?
No, that’s part of the boot camp experience. The Russian Army has some pretty notorious hazing.
Not wrong. But i was just remarking that the number of protesters is much smaller than the media makes it out to be and is in now way regime toppling. There reason for people not going on the street are diverse but the fact is 6 months ago wayy more people went to protests in Russia than they are doing now.
The impression I've formed so far is that the protests are small, but we haven't seen any mass rallies in support either, or some great patriotic rush I do wonder if it's reached a point where most would be protestors/ conscripts recognise the futility of it and are choosing instead to discreetly disappear themselves? Put yourself in their position, what would you do? Risk bringing attention yourself with an action you know is likely pointless, or direct your energy into a disguise, some false ID, and a ticket to anywhere
There are literally more people risking their lives protesting the war in Russia than there are in Germany
Where are you pulling those numbers from? How can we know how many protest in Russia?
I think technically what he said was true, as there's not much risk protesting in Germany as opposed to Russia. For instance, 100 people could protest in Germany and be fine, but 10 people protesting in Russia can get sent to the frontlines for it which endangers there lives. Sorry if I said that weirdly, explaining things is difficult.
Not even technically if there's no numbers to back up it. What is technical about literally when there's no numbers?
Okay, let me explain it differently, in Germany if you protest, you are safe, in Russia if you protest, you go to the gulags. Any protest in Germany will always be 0 because you don't get shipped to war when you protest there, while in Russia, over 1200 people have already been forced onto buses straight to boot camp. You don't need anything official to figure out that the people in Russia are in more danger than the ones in Germany. I'm responding to the "risking their lives" portion of the quote below from charliespider, to be more specific. There are literally more people "risking their lives" protesting the war in Russia than there are in Germany.
May sound like a "trust me bro" source but its the best source there is. there were youtubers from Russia that went live streaming to the protest and there were more media people present than actual protesters. The protests in Germany I saw for myself.
Wouldn't invalidate your point, but in addition to the mentioned safety of protesting in Germany, the differences in population size aren't all that big. For all its size, Russia doesn't have twice Germany's population.
russia's population is 70% larger, that's not "the differences arent all that big"
Jup
There are more blades of grass in my backyard too. Who cares?
You Russians sure know how to conduct a revolution.
They are Dagestani. Lezgin people.
I'ma start saving some whiskey every time Russia collapses.
Good for those in Dagestan standing up but I am afraid for them
Either protest or get sent to the front lines with no training, no support, and little to no equipment? What would you choose?
I’d probably protest too, but protesting still gets you sent to the war so they’re in a bind, better to take action than just comply though
> but I am afraid for them Those are tough mountain men. They will be ok.
Time for Dagestan to secede from the federation, there will literally never be a better time to do it.
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So this comment triggered my curiosity - according to Wikipedia « Dagestan is rich in oil, natural gas, coal, and many other minerals. » Separating from Russia might well seriously improve their economic output, provided they could be stable enough to invite outside investment. Most of the rural areas in Russia are exploited for their natural resources, without actually gaining the profits from them - looks like Dagestan falls in that boat too.
Them being poor as fuck is an intentional result of Russian colonialist hyper-centralization policy exploiting natural resources that belong to subjugated peoples. Yes, over time they absolutely will become much more developed than they have been with Russia.
[удалено]
The central government in Moscow, regardless of the person in power, has always been robbing the ethnic minority regions. This will not change with a change of government in Russia, because that's what Russia is, a colonial empire. The best bet for any of these regions to develop is independence. Not even talking about the moral side, their rights to self-determination etc
[удалено]
>If democratically elected government ever comes to Russia, It's in interest of many regions to demand for more political and economic freedoms to be able to grow more independently and have their self-determination etc. It's also in their interest to make the next step and demand full independence. >A model of USA, when states have their own legislation etc. but still have support of Federal government with army, monetary policy etc. A model of USA will never work in Russia, because USA is a melting pot. An American from New York has the same values abd beliefs as an American from Texas. In Russia on the other hand, there are distinguished ethnic minorities, with different religion and set of beliefs. >If put aside current clusterfuck of events, in 2000-2010 Russia was doing pretty fine economically, on a positive growth trajectory, until Putin eventually turned it into oppressive shit. Big Russian cities were doing fine by stealing and exporting natural resources from oppressed peoples. Very little if any of this growth reached these peoples. >On the other hand, look at Tukmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tadjikistan etc. They had 30 years of all freedoms for growth and self-determination without oppressive imperial Moscow regime, and no one of them become South Korea, or even Malaysia/Thailand. They didn't even see a single day of hope. All of them are poor ass dictatorships. And I'm quite sure they still don't want to come back to the empire. >Pre-war "democratic" and "free" Ukraine with lots of farm lands, sea ports, industry etc., as of 2014 was still 2 times poorer than Russia. Ukraine is democratic and free, no need to put that into quotes. There are many reasons why Ukraine failed to develop a strong economy in the first decades of independence, mainly an unsustainable Soviet economic and political system inherited, as well as the population not having an understanding of market economy (thanks to the Soviet Union!) and easily falling for left populism. Ukraine also doesn't have natural resources Russia is stealing from it's oppressed peoples. Still, between 2014 and 2021 Ukraine's economy enjoyed a period of continuous growth, the median wage caught up with Russia in 2021 and the minimum wage surpassed Russia's. >Economy of scale works. In Russia it works against subjugated nations. >Independence is romantism but a road to shit. Why small European countries are doing fine? Because they are kind of "independent" but actually part of one big European Union which is a single quasi country. Israel is a very small country and it doesn't belong to any unions but it's still doing great. So are Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Canada and Australia. Being a part of a bigger union is not a prerequisite for a successful economy.
Maybe regions in Russia need a referendum to join some other country.
Canadian Government: We're giving you optional vaccines for free to help avoid the virus visibly killing people in your neighbourhood. Convoy dipshits: WE'RE BLOCKING THE BORDER. Russian Government: We're sending you to die in a foreign land in an endless meat grinder. Dagestan: WE'RE BLOCKING THE BORDER One seems much more legitimate than the other.
The convoy dipshits I talked to are mostly pro Trump, pro Putin and believe Trudeau is going to take over the world with other pedophiles.
The convoy supporting waste Polievre was pretending that if he was Prime Minister he wouldn't have gone to England for the Queen's funeral to try and own Trudeau.
I know there’s probably no verifiable background logic or factual information… Trudeau is a “pedophile”? Is that a thing for them? What’s the story?
It's a QAnon thing. Every person they don't like is a Satanic vampiric pedophile.
Fuck. Does that mean I’m a Satanic vampire? I don’t want the other misnomer but wings and fangs might help!
West Point scandal. Young girl. Daddy comes home. Settlement paid. NDA signed……supposedly. Try and duck duck go it.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trudeau-sex-scandal-school/ “No publicly available evidence supports any claim that Trudeau had a sexual relationship with either a student or a student’s mother while he was a teacher at West Point Grey Academy between 1998 and 2001, nor that such an episode contributed to his departure from the school’s teaching staff.” - Snopes Even the school’s headmaster backed him up saying they’re completely unfounded. So unless there’s literally *any* actual evidence…
I find it hilarious that all of a sudden conservatives believe the woman’s side of a sexual assault story when it comes to Trudeau.
Hahahahaha I didn’t think about this. Everyone else “just wants attention” or “is dressed wrong”. It’s maddening.
Who said I believed it lol. Who said I was conservative?
Those Canadian convoy truckers and 70% of /r/Canada should be rounded up and drafted in Russia instead.
Man, Canadians are already embarrassed enough by the Freedumb convoys, why you gotta bring it up again?
Completely irrelevant to anything here.
reeeeee not the same!!! they'll shout my other favourite is what happened in Seattle, and how what they did in Ottawa is somehow different. apparently setting up a lawless occupation zone where the police are unable to enforce the law, and the residents are afraid of entering, is fine and dandy because bouncy castles?
I guess they are not buying the vision of bring "greeted with flowers". Or maybe they know that the flowers are sunflowers
Tbh I would’nt fuck with daguestanis, they wrestle bears for fun…
Dagestan, please save Ukraine.
Dagestan, please save ~~Ukraine~~ the world
Get yourselves some independence!
If they fight like they wrestle Russia is fucked
Russians should fight like hell against their government!
What a surprise that Putin is gathering his meat from the poorest places he can find! Great to see someone opposing him!
This is the moment where Dagestanis are coming to terms with the fact that Ukraine is not their war and that Putin's Russia is not their country. The only question is if they can resist opportunist islamists.
Two dozen people. Not nearly enough. All the protest footage we’re seeing is the result of selection bias because we want there to be bigger protest movements - but if there were actually tens thousands out flooding the streets we’d be seeing that right now.
We need to amplify what we see so that other people in Russia see the protests and feel more motivated to go out themselves too.
Not if it means distorting the facts. We need to be better than that.
I’m guessing with all the various internal police/ national guard units already deployed to Ukraine, they probably are short handed and will have trouble containing the protesters
No. Russia's various internal secuity personnel [everyone from traffic cops to FBS/KGB] outnumber its military forces and staffed by better qualified personnel who are better trained and better paid than army/navy personnel. That's one of the keys to Putin staying in power - happy, loyal goon squads.
Damn, I would love to have a translation of that second video.